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787 Dreamliner On Fire Again
Antipater writes "It looks like there's more trouble afoot for Boeing's 787 Dreamliner: London's Heathrow Airport was shut down for over an hour as fire crews attended to a 'suspected fire' on a Dreamliner owned by Ethiopia Airlines. 'Aerial pictures of the scene on the U.K.'s Sky News showed the new plane — which was not carrying passengers at the time — had been sprayed by foam, but there were no signs of fire. The aircraft was not blocking either runway, but with all the airport's fire crews tackling the Boeing 787 incident, authorities were forced to suspend departures and arrivals because of safety rules.'"
"Well, I was pretty sure I smelled smoke!"
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Sad how one badly designed subsystem can take down an entire product.
The problems began when Boeing sent them the new, improved 787C version.
I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
it was always burning since the world's been turning
-Boeing
... it crashes without even needing to leave the jetway.
Whistleblower Michael Leon warned of this in 2006:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100406310
And for that he was terminated and his career ruined. Too bad management never wants to listen.
But there is! Scorch marks on the roof in front of the tail section.
Check it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23295115 [bbc video feed]
... u guys are very funny today... NOT.
Should have stuck with the Japanese manufacturers. Caucasians are too tall and gangly. Asians are shorter and closer to the electronic parts, and therefore can see them better.
Odds that they didn't install the battery fix?
Ethiopians are predominantly Christians and have been since around the 4th Century AD.
towards fire. Don't put that out! It contains the soul of the fire god. Our tribal elders forbid it.
Ethiopia has been a Christian nation since the 1st century A.D. That was several centuries before Europeans stopped worshiping their "fire gods", like Vulcan, Surtr, and Thor.
>> all the airport's fire crews tacking the Boeing 787 incident Send ALL the crews? :\
Here in brazil we make really good planes at Embraer, they cost less, are more fuel efficient and don't burn at will... also, Embraer doesn't earn any bucks from NSA.
I want a car made of these batteries. o_O
Woooosh!
funny like this one, "If Boeing is made by fat uneducated Americans, Airbus is built by chain-smoking French surrender monkeys, royal-loving British soccer hooligans with bad haircuts, and Germans who are so boring I can't even think of anything to say to denigrate their culture with."
mfwright@batnet.com
They've never seen the movie Crazy People, I guess.
"Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
They trace their Christian heritage to the Ethopian that rode in his chariot while Philip in the Bible: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%208:26-40
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
best in-flight BBQ
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
You do not often see a whole airport closed for a period of time because of a plane fire, and a very busy airport like London Heathrow, I wonder do other airlines affected bill the plane insurance company? could be very costly closing a major airport.
And so that even while a sentence
It's sad when someone wooshes a their own failed attempt at humor. Its like he wooshed to cover up the fact he didn't realize Ethiopia wasn't actually a country of uncivilized heathens but that it was part of the joke all along.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
More importantly: That's all your crews? For Heathrow? Third busiest airport in the world?
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
but there were no signs of fire.
To clarify, I think the submitter means no sign of fire still burning now. The BBC pointed out fire damage on the roof just forward of the tail.
Also:
as fire crews attended to a 'suspected fire'
No, it definitely was an actual fire! I don't know where this quote comes from (it's not in either of the articles now).
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Interesting question about they can afford such a plane. I could not help but noticed the aircraft, "Queen of Sheba" that reminded me of this movie, Solomon and Sheba, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053290/?ref_=sr_1
mfwright@batnet.com
1. "We Are the World" was recorded 28 years ago.
2. Does American Airlines belong to the Unites States of America?
It looks like the fire damage on the roof of the plane is right above where they keep the rear battery.. The battery is kept below, so, I'm not sure if the fire could spread to the top of the plane. This would be very embarrassing if it's the battery again. They were suppose to be replaced with safer, fire proof cases and other improvements. After dealing with RC lipo batteries, I can say they are real difficult to charge and keep. I always assume they could catch fire at any time. Really not the thing you want in a plane.
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
The smallest 787 configuration carries 210 passengers. The largest stretched Embraer carries just 120. Different league entirely. Embraer is competing with the 717/A318 and similar small commuter jets, not the 787/A380 and similar wide bodied jumbos.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Baby's on fire
Better throw her in the water
Look at her laughing
Like a heifer to the slaughter
Baby's on fire
And all the laughing boys are bitching
Waiting for photos
Oh the plot is so bewitching
Rescuers row row
Do your best to change the subject
Blow the wind blow blow
Lend some assistance to the object
Photographers snip snap
Take your time she's only burning
This kind of experience
Is necessary for her learning
If you'll be my flotsam
I could be half the man I used to
They said you were hot stuff
And that's what baby's been reduced to
Juanita and Juan
Very clever with maracas
Making their fortunes
Selling secondhand tobaccoes
Juan dances at Chico's
And when the clients are evicted
He empties the ashtrays
And pockets all that he's collected
But baby's on fire
And all the instruments agree that
Her temperature's rising
But any idiot would know that
And their fire gods are punishing them for it. ;)
To be fair, the entire fleet of 777's were grounded 2 years after the first delivery due to gearbox wearing issues, which is a major problem, and yet the 777, now 22 years in service, has one of the highest dispatch reliability rates of any airline, at 99.96%. These things are just too darned complicated to get everything right, and due to safety regulations they always take the nuclear option and ground entire fleets when something like this happens just to be sure. Plus with faster media and the ever increasing competition between Airbus and Boeing,not to mention that Boeing is the US's largest exporter by a significant margin, then you basically hear all about these problems very quickly and very dramatically.
I am wondering if the batteries fail from constant pressure changes. Its not like laptops or phones get pressure cycled like an airplane would. The LiIon batteries passengers carry are usually in the pressurized cabin. Are there any Li-Ion applications that do pressure cycle like a plane?
Just a reminder - Boeing 787 is a very advanced aircraft not only because of that carbon fiber thingy, but also because they've swapped almost all actuators from hydraulic to electrical ones - that's new (first?) for civilian aircraft. Electric generators are sitting right on engines shafts (so no bleeding == more fuel efficient design).
As a result Boeing is still chasing all the electrical (and tightly tied to them computer) bugs. Not very surprising that is.
Wait a minute? Ethopia Airlines? As in the country in Africa that's so poor and destitute that it pulled heart strings with "We Are the World"? That Ethopia? They can afford a friggin 787 Airliner? Damn...
"it pays for itself"
it's business.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Looks like Boeing went down about 7% when the news broke ...
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
Is that the sound of a halon unit going off inside a Dreamliner battery compartment?
This plane is on fire!
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2013387936_787emergency10.html
Seems that Boeing has a serious problem with recurring issues on the 787 dreamliner. First the three battery fires, now with the rear electronics bay catching fire twice now.
I sure hope the two incidents are NOT related or the FAA is going to have to pull these aircraft out of service again. That would be very bad given we've spent about the same time grounded as actually in service.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Whatever this issue is, it's a different problem. This fire occurred near the tail of the aircraft near the crew rest area. The batteries in question were in the avionics bay near the front.
2. Does American Airlines belong to the Unites States of America?
No, but...
Ethiopian Airlines[...], formerly Ethiopian Air Lines and often referred to as simply Ethiopian, is Ethiopia's flag carrier and is wholly owned by the country's government.
--Wikipedia
You can't spell "oneiromancy" without "roman".
That's the pacific island plain.
"2. Does American Airlines belong to the Unites States of America?" Um, obviously the answer is no. But it *was* founded in America by Americans. And yes, We Are The World was recorded 28 years ago. But last I checked, Ethopia is still listed as a 3rd world country. In fact, its #10 on the list. I'm just surprised that a third world country has a friggin' Dreamliner (well had one that is apparently its burning right now). Then again, I guess I should be even more surprised that my comment wasn't even modded up for being humorous, but your's was for being "insightful" yet lacking any insight.
Another 787 had to turn back shortly after takeoff. From this Business Week article, "TUI Travel Plc (TT/)’s U.K. charter arm Thomson Airways Ltd. said that one of its two 787s turned back to Manchester in northern England today following the detection of an unspecified fault after it had departed for Orlando Sanford airport in Florida."
I wouldn't want to to fly on a 787.
when in operation, that is hardly possible. that's why everybody gets so twitchy over these things, regulators most of all.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
2. Does American Airlines belong to the Unites States of America?
From Wikipedia:
Ethiopian Airlines formerly Ethiopian Air Lines and often referred to as simply Ethiopian, is Ethiopia's flag carrier and is wholly owned by the country's government.
I am sure some old Nazi Über-engineers or their children make those Airbuses actually fly. Still boring ? Maybe we should go into the flight surgeons Nasa obtained...
Boeing has had other recent problems in quality and reliability, with some recent Boeing-managed programs being cancelled, because they were going so badly.
In 2005, FIA (run by Boeing) was canceled. The New York Times called it "perhaps the most spectacular and expensive failure in the 50-year history of American spy satellite projects. ... A torrent of defective parts, like gyroscopes and electric cables, repeatedly stalled work. Even an elementary rule of spacecraft construction — never use tin because it deforms in space and can short-circuit electronic components — was violated by parts suppliers. By the time the project, known by its initials, F.I.A., was killed in September 2005 — a year after the first satellite was originally to have been delivered — cost estimates ran as high as $18 billion."
From space.com, "But Boeing quickly ran into troubles on the highly ambitious and complex FIA program, which fell years behind schedule and overran its budget by billions of dollars. In 2005, having concluded that Boeing’s problems were intractable, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence directed the NRO to terminate the optical portion of the contract."
In 2011, the Boeing-run SBI Net program was canceled, because it was going so badly. From stltoday.com, "It was originally envisioned to stretch the 1,969-mile border between the U.S. and Mexico but initial phases of the $1 billion project took longer than anticipated to complete and covered just a small portion, 53 miles, since the project began."
In 2011, the "Joint Tactical Radio System’s Ground Mobile Radios (GMR)" project, run by Boeing, was canceled. From a Bloomberg article: "Based on growth in the unit procurement costs, I am terminating the program," Frank Kendall wrote in a letter to Congress. "... The GMR program last year was estimated to cost $19.5 billion."
And a USA Today article tells about other recent problems with Boeing. For example, "V-22 Osprey. The tilt-rotor aircraft, made in partnership with Bell Helicopter, is under congressional scrutiny because of concerns about its high cost of operation, reliability and safety". And "Joint Tactical Radio System Cluster 1. Boeing's management of the project for the military was so bad it received a stop-work order from the Defense Department. Eventually, the program was restructured rather than canceled but with Boeing in a diminished role."
Let's see....
Life expectancy: 59.24 years (number one cause of death is the flu, 870k people living with HIV)
Literacy Rate:
Population below international poverty line of US$1.25 per day: 39% ( Which happens to match the total adult literacy rate)
But yeah the majority religion is Christianity so you win.
I cannot help think that Boeing are very lucky that these issues are happening so far either on the ground or near to airports, imagine a plane fire whilst over the Pacific or Atlantic, the crew potentially would not be able to put such out, I think it would be wise to avoid this plane until it is shown to not catch fire.
3rd World country just means that the country did not align itself with either the Axis or the Allies during World War 2. I wish we could come up with a new way to describe a civilizations level of advancement.
No longer the Dreamliner. Now the Boeing Firebird.
Have gnu, will travel.
You'll also probably find that on the proviso that Ethiopia received aid from the US, a certain amount had to be spent on upgrading the transport, and guess what, our friends at Boeing will sell you an aircraft. International Aid often appears to be an elaborate method for funnelling money back into one's own country. Think of it as laundering for governments.
This happens fairly regularly. An example was China offering aid to [I think] Somalia to upgrade the infrastructure, but Chinese companies and workers had to be used. I'm trying to find references.
Cynicism bordering on paranoaia? Possibly, but don't tell me that you can't see that kind of thing happening.
hehe, Firebird, very nice pph
787 Nightmare liner....
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
It's all good business though. My country can afford to give your country 1 million dollars outright, or 100 million dollars if you use it to buy product/workers from my country to improve both our situations.
Having lived in North Africa for 6 years now, the frequency in which crew smoke on the plane is astonishing. Had an EgyptAir flight attendant once tell me that it was the smell the ovens made when they turned them on. Wouldn't surprise me if this is the same type of thing. Crew member 1 in the lavatory smoking and crew member 2 smells smoke and freaks out. On a tangent, I had no idea Ethiopia could even afford that type of machinery...not like they have a population that struggles to eat.
that Ethiopia has an airline.
Our worst experiences with cargo airlines has been with Ethiopian. We call them "Camel" Cargo, because you have to beat the camel to get it to get up and move. Last time the cargo sat for 10 days in Addis Ababa until we took to scraping all of their management emails that are posted right on their website and getting more impolite than anyone would care to be.
So if I hear one of their planes is on fire while sitting on the tarmac, I tend to think that it might be some way they are operating the craft rather than there being something unsafe about the craft.
One plane from one company has a fire and the US stock market freaks out then tanks. Jesus people, stay calm an think.
There's a suggestion on AvHerald and PPRUNE that the problem was caused by a coffee heater in the galley; probably boiled dry, and the safety circuit failed.
All your ghosts are just false positives.
They should have starved the fire of oxygen, Ethiopians are good at starving.
Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.