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Google Announces Android 4.3, Netflix, New Nexus 7, and Q Successor Chromecast
At a press conference dubbed "Breakfast With Sundar," Google announced two new pieces of hardware and a minor revision to Android. Complete stories and commentary are still coming in, but in the mean time you can skim a liveblog or two
First is the new Nexus 7. The hardware is slightly improved (full HD screen, better graphics, etc.). The specs managed to "leak" hours before the event through Best Buy opening preordering too early. On the software side, they've announced a minor revision to Android, 4.3. It features improved Bluetooth support (including Bluetooth 4.0), OpenGL ES 3.0, enhanced internationalization, enhanced DRM, and multi-user support. The multi-user support looks most exciting: now you can share a tablet with more than one person. One of the features Google focused on was restricted profiles: a device owner can create accounts that e.g. cannot make in-app purchases (Junior won't rack up a $3000 bill again). Bad news: Google is implementing stricter DRM for books and video, locking down the entire video stack. The consolation prize is that Netflix will work on more devices and at 1080p. Also demoed were a new version of Chrome that brings the tablet experience closer to the desktop, improved hangouts, and improved maps. Google also appears to be making a push into gaming, emphasizing tablet-only games that integrate into Google+. In addition to gaming, they have secured deals with five major textbook publishers to sell students presumably DRMed electronic textbooks that can be purchased or rented, enhanced with better search and highlighting (because PDF readers don't support those features already). As usual lately, all of the really nice additions to Android are proprietary and tied to Google services, further eroding the open nature of Android.
Finally, they announced a tiny $35 dongle named Chromecast that appears to be the successor of the Nexus Q. Running Chrome OS, it connects to any HDMI port, finds your Wi-Fi network, and Just Works (tm) for online video. The online and mobile Youtube and Netflix interfaces will allow you to hit a single button and forward the video to your television as well. Google Music streaming to the television is also supported. The Chromecast looks like a handy little device, hopefully it is turns out it can be reflashed. Of course, when using your browser as a remote, all of the commands go through The Cloud. An SDK and more details on the software side of things are slated for release later today, although conspiciously absent on their supported platforms list is GNU/Linux, listing only Chrome OS and Android. Update: 07/24 18:01 GMT by U L : The Chromecast SDK is out, but with an awfully restrictive license that requires written permission from Google to distribute any cast enabled applications, which appears to make it completely incompatible with Free/Open Source software.
Multiple user accounts have been available in Android for ages, this is just some enhancements. Same with sending YouTube and Netflix video from your phone/tablet to your TV - I can do that with my Panasonic Viera and Galaxy S3.
Features being tied to Google services is hardly new either.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
That's all fine and dandy, but what I'm the absolute most stoked about is that action bar is now supported back to API 7 http://developer.android.com/reference/android/support/v7/app/ActionBar.html
With Bluetooth 4.0, hopefully the Wahoo Blue HR can now be supported by runkeeper et al.
Glad I skipped this one.
How in the world do they lockdown a video stack if I have access to the kernel?
The thing is $35, and (at least for now) includes 3 free months of Netflix (even for existing subscribers).
That means that if you want a 1080p Netflix box for your TV, this thing costs you $11... that's one heck of a lot cheaper than an AppleTV or Roku.
My parents have been complaining about how ridiculously slow Netflix is on their Samsung bluray player (the streaming works fine, the interface takes forever to load pages), so this might just be their solution...
How would that even work?
If you control the kernel you can have it lie and return whatever signature you want. If it tries to hash something, let it hash a copy of the signed kernel you backed up.
Sounds like they are making steps in the right direction, I personally purchased a kindle because of kindle freetime. That decision was more than just restricting the kids, a big part was access to the free time unlimited content library and the age based content controls.
The article doesn't say if google is planning a similar service, which is what seems to be driving my associates with kids to buy the kindles.
How would that even work?
If you control the kernel you can have it lie and return whatever signature you want. If it tries to hash something, let it hash a copy of the signed kernel you backed up.
It doesn't matter if the encryption is solid or not. It could be a simple XOR if they wanted to. What matters is that the DMCA makes anyone who fiddles with it a criminal.
More Twoson than Cupertino
The rumored specs for Nexus 7.2 all included wireless charging. Does anyone know for certain that it got dropped from the final spec?
Maybe through the integration of SELinux and MAC, which was buried in the announcement.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Looking at the 7" tablets, it seems like these devices are all quite similar:
All roughly $200. Front and back cameras, vaguely comparable processors. The Nexus has a higher screen resolution than the other two, but lacks the microSD slot that the other two have. The Samsung uses its own Samsung app store, while the Google and Lenovo use the Google Play store. Anything else different?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
In which case I would have my kernel start up the signed kernel and pass this task off to it. Virtualization is great.
As usual lately, all of the really nice additions to Android are proprietary and tied to Google services, further eroding the open nature of Android
I wish I could mod summaries as troll. Honestly, many of us here make our livings creating proprietary software. Whining that Google makes proprietary apps just makes us all look bad. Stop it.
Again, I own the kernel so I can have SELinux doing whatever I want.
Which is already how I play DVDs, so by now I must be a hardened criminal. Making normal people criminals is not good for society.
At this point I should probably just priate media since they don't even want to let me legally play it.
> "I got tired of the whole Google+-ification of every Google product."
Yeah, that got irksome (for me) starting with Picasa.
--- Mercutio was right.
So it streams video over WiFi and is controlled via the cloud. Do we want to start a betting pool on how long till the first hack to override the device and display Goatse.cx on everyone's TVs?
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
My guess would be a shim program that performs cryptographic checksums of the running kernel, or a key component. The shim is downloaded as part of whatever application wants to implement restricted DRM, such as Netflix.
What the kernel replies is of no consequence, since it is never queried.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Prior to Jelly Bean 2 (Android 4.2), Android didn't really have multiuser capabilities. How many Android devices in the field are running Jelly Bean 2? Many are still shipping with Gingerbread (2.3). And as I understand it, phones still don't ship with multiuser; only 7" and bigger tablets do. You have to root to get multiuser on a phone.
How can you start up a signed kernel if you can't provide said signed kernel with the encryption key that it looks for at boot time, which was to be provided by the secure bootloader that you replaced with your own (becasue the secure bootloader will obviously fail to boot your custom kernel)?
Even if you own the kernel, the device manufacturer owns the design of the module that monitors the boot process. In the x86 world I think they call this a TPM.
It's all fun and games till someone figures out how to monetize it.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
So how in the world does this code run?
How would it even know if it is checking the running kernel vs all those reads being redirected?
...now with tint control!!
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
I have absolutely no complaints with mine. Love the thing. Yeah, it would be nice if you could plunk an SD card into it or properly access USB drives, but I've got other ways to move data on and off it, so it's a very very small inconvenience. I love the thing myself.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The Verge indicates Chromecast will only work with computers running a Windows or Mac OS. Yet again Linux is treated like a red-headed stepchild.
How does it know what is is hashing is what it thinks it is hashing?
DRM is never good, nor is imaginary property anything more than that.
I do not pirate software nor media, but I cannot accept such views. Only one person has to crack this before everyone can have a copy.
The overlap between what you call Thieves, which are in fact not stealing anything only copying it, and normal people is likely far more than you expect.
Details are a bit thin, and will presumably depend on the hardware; but Google has this to say:
"Android also now supports hardware-backed storage for your KeyChain credentials, providing more security by making the keys unavailable for extraction. That is, once keys are in a hardware-backed key store (Secure Element, TPM, or TrustZone), they can be used for cryptographic operations but the private key material cannot be exported. Even the OS kernel cannot access this key material. While not all Android-powered devices support storage on hardware, you can check at runtime if hardware-backed storage is available by calling KeyChain.IsBoundKeyAlgorithm()."
They don't explicitly say how the media DRM features are handled; but it would certainly appear that they've been busy supporting higher-than-kernel hardware mechanisms that would certainly have the capability to verify the system state and freak out if filthy 'owners' have the temerity to mess with the device.
(Google has also owned Widevine for some time now, a company that is studiously unhelpful about the details; but which, according to its patent portfolio and past press releases, has been doing set-top-box DRM for a while now, with a long list of chipset vendors on the client list. They have a lot of chatter about a 'Virtual Smartcard', which sounds software-like; but 'software' could include firmware baked into a system well below the level of being manipulated by the kernel, short of a successful attack against the firmware.)
That sounds,
Looking at the 7" tablets, it seems like these devices are all quite similar:
All roughly $200. Front and back cameras, vaguely comparable processors. The Nexus has a higher screen resolution than the other two, but lacks the microSD slot that the other two have. The Samsung uses its own Samsung app store, while the Google and Lenovo use the Google Play store. Anything else different?
Of course they are quite similar. They are all made in China by the same suppliers. The only difference is how locked down the company wants to make them, and how they want to monetize them after-sale.
You can buy a chinese tablet straight from China for about 25%-30% less with the exact same specs. Some of the extra cost in the Google/Samsung models is due to better and more consistent software, but a good portion of it is going right into the pocket of those middlemen.
I have yet to see a Chinese tablet that did not have a micro-SD slot. Even their $40 devices have them. The only reason Apple and Google would do without them is so they can gouge the customer for extra storage and built-in obsolescence.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
...
Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
The new Chromecast device looks awesome! Unfortunately my old generation HDTV only has Component Inputs. I wonder if I can plug a Chromecast into some kind of HDMI->Componet converter? Will Chromecast require a secure HDMI connection?
Like Wifi refusing to connect some times until you turn it off and on again on the Nexus 4 and the older Nexus HSPA+ OR the camera getting stuck on in the background and turning the phone into a pocket heater while it drains the phone battery in less than 30 minutes.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Well, I guess I can leave android now. Any word on when firefox OS devices start shipping?
It was nice while it lasted.
Yes, the Nexus 7 actually get's updates instantly, Samsung might roll them out in a year or two.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Since when did Google promised anyone that it would be "open"? The only thing they offer is source code.
That allows you to do a lot, but as we saw with Tivo, open source does not mean open access, etc.
Or theyare smart and know that nobody cares to rip the HDMI stream but instead just download the movie in full HD from the pirate bay. or if you dont want to be tracked, rip the Bluray.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You're describing an extreme corner case. Detailed modifications to a kernel that intercepts specific reads is not exactly what they are worried about.
If they are then the next iteration of devices will be like the Chromebooks, with TPM chips and signed boot loaders and kernels.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
How would that even work?
It's really pretty trivial when you think about it. Now that SIMs are hacked, they can propose a new standard that has a similar processor-on-a-circuit DRM like satellite tv's smart cards. The legislation is already in place to enforce everything regarding those so it won't be too much of a hassle.
They can even throw in a digital wallet feature to make it a serious counter-fitting crime to dupe the cards. Add in and a black door for the government and that will really get the US military to detain offenders under some future interpretation of the patriot act.
Maybe call the Freedom Chips...
Easy: you don't have access to the kernel.
HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
Sure, but it is possible.
That next iteration will then have me looking for alternatives. I simply will not buy a smartphone that I do not own. If I can't flash my own kernels it is useless to me. I am willing to lose netflix for that.
So Google is now happily following the path of embrace and extend that Microsoft blazed to near irrelevance. Good job Google. Nothing says success like brilliant minds stifled by greed and control issues.
I'm wondering if Google just killed Roku with Chromecast.
Uh... pardon me, but I have no idea what the Unknown Lamer is talking about. My copy of Adobe Reader does search and highlighting JUST FINE.
Nexus devices don't have sd slots because Google doesn't want Microsoft making any more money off them. SD requires an exFAT licence.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
When will be Cyanogenmod and/or Ubuntu Touch be available for that device so we can really be the owners of it instead of google?
And No, I will not buy into the Apple world, either)
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Cos it gets the right answer ;-}
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Widely known fact. Taking pictures using a tablet announces to the world that the user is a colossal dork.
As a matter of principle I understand where you're coming from, but from a practical standpoint I just don't see it. I find it much easier to share stuff and interact with family members, especially the less tech savy, then I could if the services were separate.
Both parties have that ability already. You can send me a file and I can send you money. I will not send you money for a file I cannot play. Try to also remember many consumers are producers too.
Piracy is not theft, which is why they are never charged with theft. Normal people actually often commit piracy. Far more than technically inclined folks.
DRM and laws around already make me a criminal when I play a DVD I bought. That does not encourage me to continue to buy media.
"You can keep all your privacy invading products to yourself Sundar. My next phone is going to be either a Jolla or a FirefoxOS device. I got tired of the whole Google+-ification of every Google product."
It has gotten rather depressing. I was leaning toward Android because it was more open than the Apple ecosystem (and demonstrably, Apple's "walled garden" has driven many people away from iPhone).
Android's attempts at "lock-in" come at a time when it is increasingly STUPID for Google to be doing it. People are really, really, tired of the corporate control, tracking, and surveillance both corporate and government.
If Firefox OS were further along, I would be very tempted. But only if there is decent hardware to run it on. I am pretty sad that Motorola was picked up by Google. I don't want to see that Googlified either.
Short of rooting it, do you have access to the kernel?
I didn't think you did.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
You're missing the point. Google doesn't care if DRM is bullet proof, or if it actually works at all. It only has to be good enough to make the content providers happy.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
That summary has SO many words. I can't even make early assumptions from it, just.. too long.
It's a Nexus. That means it will get updated.
My almost 2 year old galaxy nexus just got updated to 4.3, same day.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
lol yeah thats the reason! Riiiight!
Repeat what I stated in another post: the total numbers are up, but the market share is WAY down. Android phones now outsell iPhones, which means Apple's SHARE of the smartphone market is now continuously shrinking.
I don't understand. You can use android with the Google stuff disabled. You don't even need to use a Google account. All you really lose out on is the Google play store. But here's the best part: you can install other app stores! Like the Amazon one, or F Droid, or one of those porn ones that Steve Jobs griped about.
Hell, you could forego an app store altogether and just download apks from websites if you wanted. That's the beauty of Android. Ulike iPhones or Windows Phones, you're free to install what you want. It's like an actual PC in your pocket.
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
Only if you want to support SD cards > 64GB (aka SD XC). SDHC cards need a FAT license though. Though I'm fairly certain you can probably reformat 64GB SDXC cards with FAT32 and have it still work fine in everything.
Google doesn't want SD slots and gives pitifully low storage because they're a cloud (advertising) company. You put your music on Google Music, stream your Google Play videos you bought, etc.
I have a good example of google's problem. I setup chrome remote desktop so that i could remote into a Win7 Home Prem box (no RDP). So i get it up and running and it works fine, but i have to be signed in to google, and it never gives me the IP so i can manually connect in case something goes wrong on google's end. Everything always HAS to flow through google, and its getting VERY old. Their google drive is about the worst possible way to implement remote files. I REALLY hate how google constantly tries to blur the edges of offline/online. No i dont want to 'make available offline' I want the file put HERE, now. Illusion of simplicity.
Good-bye
I would go so far as to say that the overlap is near 100%. I have never met a person over the age of about 5 that has not 'pirated' 'intellectual property'. One of the most common cases being those dasterdly pirates that seem to think it is OK to steal the Happy Birthday song.
It's a Nexus. That means it will get updated.
Not necessarily, the Nexus one stopped at android 2.3.6 and is no longer listed at https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images and the Nexus S stopped at 4.1.1, never making it to 4.2.
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
1. No, just more PITA for paying customers
2. Not on linux they don't. Not after the DRM service goes away they don't. Ask those people who bought the MS drm music ages ago.
3. Copying is not theft. theft requires depriving someone of something. if I take your picture I have not stolen anything.
4. The greek police will not charge you with theft. Find me a single case of that. The concepts are not even close. The fact that your language is imprecise is not a good argument for anything but fixing your language.
5. I use libdvdcss to play dvds, this is illegal in the USA. Thus I am made a criminal just to watch movies I purchased.
I hope they replaced their stupid headphone jack with a headset jack. It is SO annoying to have to type in credit cards manually using Square's Credit Card Reader (not to mention the higher fee).
Uh...
What "lock-in" are you referring to? Just because it's built in DOES NOT mean (on Android) that you can't replace it seamlessly with another product.
Let's see:
Google Play = Amazon's Android App Store.
Google Maps = A plethora of other mapping software (Garmin and TomTom have offline mapping applications on the play store, I think)
Gtalk/G+ = any number of messaging services
Browser = Firefox (not just a wrapper), Chrome, etc.
Each one COULD seamlessly replace Google products if they just register the proper intent. Most GPS applications do so (clicking on an address in your contact list / browser / anywhere will take you to your GPS application, not GMaps). "Seamlessly" being the most important word here; you don't have to copy-paste addresses into a replacement GPS software like on some other platforms.
Android's also written that a dev would be able to do anything that Google applications can. It's not Closed -- it's just Google is offering defaults for users who don't want to pick and choose.
At a press conference dubbed "Breakfast With Sundar,"
Large blocks of text are hard to read.
True, but then you get called an idiot when you get infected with malware for not using just the Play Store.
- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
I've been looking at all the cheap Chinese Android Sticks that have been coming out lately, but have been hesitant to buy since they each have their own little quirks and none are really supported. If they can increase the app availability, I'm there...
Of course, adding BlueTooth so you could interact with at least a mouse would be better.
Their google drive is about the worst possible way to implement remote files. I REALLY hate how google constantly tries to blur the edges of offline/online. No i dont want to 'make available offline' I want the file put HERE, now. Illusion of simplicity.
What are you talking about?
Google Drive works just like Dropbox or probably pretty much every other syncing service out there (except for Bittorrent Sync, which has a proper Android app out now).
If someone wants me to migrate away from Android to their pet OS, then not having Google+ will be the kilelr feature. (Having some God-awful Ubuntoid+ instead is not it though).
And No, I will not buy into the Apple world, either)
--
A million lemmings can't be wrong.
So tell me why you will not buy into the Apple world?
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
You can keep all your privacy invading products to yourself Sundar. My next phone is going to be either a Jolla or a FirefoxOS device. I got tired of the whole Google+-ification of every Google product.
if you think any product that is released on a major carrier is not tracking your every bit, i have a bridge to sell you. such data is the single most valuable asset owned by these companies and they aren't going to give it up.
Calling it Nexus doesn't make the hardware magically capable of new workloads. There is no way to guarantee that cutting edge software can run well on old hardware. You can either cut hardware loose when it can't keep up or you can artificially hold back everybody else by never building anything too powerful for your first generation device. This argument is a canard. Nobody who buys Nexus devices for their access to upgrades expects the hardware to magically keep pace with hardware released 3 or 4 years later.
I have found with greater than 16GB I am less concerned with external storage as well, but the situation with the SD card mounting from the device when it is mounted on a computer is a poor excuse for engineering. It would have been trivial for Google to have designed the OS to mount a virtual directory structure for accessing the SD card and thus leaving the SD card mounted to the OS at all times.
If someone wants me to migrate away from Android to their pet OS, then not having Google+ will be the kilelr feature.
so basically, you are saying you are willing to buy their hardware at a loss to them, but you aren't willing to participate in any of the add-on services that actually earn them a profit.
I'm hoping that with the Bluetooth improvements, we will start to see small bluetooth devices that allow you to wirelessly mount SD and USB drives the same way you can connect to a Bluetooth keyboard. Realistically, with 32GB devices, the only thing that you would be storing on external media would be large data files like movies or music.
That's OK, I already did that when I set up my Commodore KIM on my dinningroom table. Then again when I would play C64 games at lunch in Jr High. As a young adult, I went even more public with it by letting anyone who happened to be at the mall, see me frequently entering and exiting the software store.
I am WAY past announcing to the work that I am a colossal dork. Don't worry, eventually the cool kids will come around, just like you did with the dork announcement of posting on Slashdot.
Boohoo, somebody called me an idiot. Not.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html#43-media This actually says that they created a modular framework that can be used to better implement DRM.
This. The same reason why they don't let you choose the permissions for the apps as you install them, or make rooting the phone a one-click procedure. They just need to demonstrate that they are putting an effort in to stop teh evul hackerz and the content providers and app publishers have no basis to file a lawsuit that Google is intentionally causing them financial harm.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
Custom kernel, re-implement/intercept calls to KeyChain.IsBoundKeyAlgorithm(). Fixed.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
Why is rooting it such a big deal? As long as they are using C/C++ for any kernel/root level code, there will always be exploits for privilege escalation.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
3..You deprive them of that soda though, which is what they sell.
If you make your own soda at home, you also don't pay the supermarket. Same way if you copy media you don't pay for it. Should making homemade soda be illegal?
4. Copyright infringement is the correct term in English. It is nothing like theft. Theft deprives someone of an actual thing, not the mere chance to make money. If taking the chance to make money away is a crime, I am a criminal whenever I cook my own dinner instead of going to a restaurant. If I cook food just like the restaurant surely I am worse than hitler.
5. Any language that has no separate words for such things is incredibly imprecise.
Slashdot is clearly a site for very clueless nerds. DRM systems are designed to be as hack proof as possible, and Google has simply announced the next stage of preventing hacking into the process that decrypts, decodes and displays DRM video data. This has nothing at all to do with playing ordinary, non-DRM video files.
There is an industry wide initiative to create devices where DRM protected files are able to provide output without any of the software or hardware decode stages being accessible to outside third-party code mechanisms. These are so-called protected paths. The initiative is a work in progress, and its intent is to prevent casual copying and lending by users.
THERE IS NO INTENT WHATSOEVER TO PREVENT THE USER FROM CREATING OR DISPLAYING THEIR OWN VIDEO FILES. If your book, video or music lacks DRM, it will decode and produce output just fine on any future version of Android. This functionality is IMPOSSIBLE for Google to prevent, even if they were insane enough to want to. Why? Because modern SoC CPU cores are so powerful, the decoding can always be done in pure software to a video surface that Google can have no control over. You know how a game displays to the screen? Any video player could use the same method! All Google could prevent would be your use of hardware acceleration, at the cost of some battery life- what on Earth would be the point.
Paranoid cretins have no technology understanding. Protected path is NOT the same as video decode acceleration.
"What are you talking about? Google Drive works just like Dropbox or probably pretty much every other syncing service out there (except for Bittorrent Sync, which has a proper Android app out now)."
Two observations:
(1) GP's description is pretty accurate. And
(2) The fact that almost all of them work that way doesn't mean it's good.
"ust because it's built in DOES NOT mean (on Android) that you can't replace it seamlessly with another product."
Let's see:
Google Play = Amazon's Android App Store.
Both are built-in "system apps" on my phone, and you have to root the phone to get rid of either one. That's called "lock-in". It doesn't mean you CAN'T replace it, it only means they TRY to keep you from doing it.
"Google Maps = A plethora of other mapping software (Garmin and TomTom have offline mapping applications on the play store, I think)"
Again... Google Maps is a "system app" on my phone, and it is intimately tied to location services. While you can use a different maps app, location services still make use of Google Maps, and again you can't turn that off without rooting your phone. That's called "lock-in".
"Gtalk/G+ = any number of messaging services"
That much is true, and at least in that case, you can easily replace it with something else.
"Browser = Firefox (not just a wrapper)..."
That much is true, too, and I use Firefox as my default browser. I only use Chrome when a site misbehaves with Firefox. (Which has almost always been the fault of the site builders, not Firefox.)
So your score is 2/5, if you count the app stores as 2.
3. Copying is not theft. theft requires depriving someone of something.
Uh wrong!
Copying something that someone owns and chooses to *sell* (ie: a book, software, music or whatever) *does* deprive someone of something -- the revenue that they would have received when they sold that to you.
Of course the argument is that most of those doing the copying would not have actually purchased (paid for) the material anyway so there's no loss of revenue -- but even that is flawed. If the copier believes that the material isn't worth paying for then they ascribe a lower value to it than the owner. In that case, if they truly believe it has a low value, why copy it?
If you take the time to copy something then you *do* ascribe a value to it. At the very least, *this* sum is the amount you have *stolen* from the legitimate owner and copyright holder.
If you still claim it has no value then one must ask, why are you wasting your time and bandwidth copying stuff that you don't want?
It's gotten to the point that I feel offended when someone implies I am a "consumer", as though I were a baby bird waiting, mouth agape, for some mama-bird "provider" to cough up some "product" for me to consume.
As a participant, not a mere "consumer", the extremism in the defense of international conglomerates' Intellectual Precious is a plague.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
(1) GP's description is pretty accurate.
Only if we're talking about the mobile version. The desktop version does not have a 'make available offline' function. Neither does the web version. It wouldn't really make sense.
(2) The fact that almost all of them work that way doesn't mean it's good.
Well, I've been annoyed with the way the mobile versions work too (which is why I use DropSync), but the rationale for it apparently is that it is hard to sync a lot of files without sucking the battery dry very fast. See Grady O.'s last comment here: https://www.dropbox.com/votebox/613/add-sd-card-syncronisation-for-android-phones#votebox:1
(This, even though Dropbox tells us it has to do with minimizing our data usage on their website: "This prevents Dropbox from consuming all of the bandwidth and space for your mobile device.")
"Only if we're talking about the mobile version. The desktop version does not have a 'make available offline' function. Neither does the web version. It wouldn't really make sense."
I meant about the general way it functions. He/she was railing against the fact that it has to go through a central server. In fact that was GP's main point. And it makes no difference which version you are using, in that respect.
"Well, I've been annoyed with the way the mobile versions work too (which is why I use DropSync)..."
Again, not addressing the central issue, which was that almost all these services make use of a central server. And no, it's not necessary, strictly speaking. There are ways around it.
Ok try this two greek fellas set up shop in the same street selling kebabs you walk down the street if you buy from the first guy your depriving the second and vis versa. Since both of these vendors are equally deserving of your money, you decide to go home and cook your own kebab, leaving both vendors outraged that you had a kebab without paying them.
I'm driving my car a song comes on the radio enter sand man by metallica maybe i enjoyed it , perhaps later i hum the song as i wash the dishes. Have I stolen metallicas song? I didn't pay them for it.
I go on holiday in the greek Islands, I take my camera with me and go sight seeing and take photographs, I don't buy any postcards from any of the local vendors have I stolen those images and memories?
There is a local election with 2 or more candidates standing the candidate I voted for wins have I stolen the job from the other candidates?
I turn on my laptop and boot Linux see your crazy comment using the firefox webbrowser and leave a reply have I stolen from microsoft?
You can try all you want to persuade me to buy your service or product but I have every right to refuse to do so and that does not make me a thief.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
Nope, you can format them with whatever, does not have to be xxxFAT anything.
4wdloop
If someone wants me to migrate away from Android to their pet OS, then not having Google+ will be the kilelr feature. (Having some God-awful Ubuntoid+ instead is not it though).
And No, I will not buy into the Apple world, either)
--
A million lemmings can't be wrong.
So tell me why you will not buy into the Apple world?
A mortal fear of walking off cliffs.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
How in the world do they lockdown a video stack if I have access to the kernel?
Handwavium to keep the studio execs happy.
Google knows that DRM doesn't work. They just need to do this to keep their deals with the studios.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Piracy is not theft, which is why they are never charged with theft. Normal people actually often commit piracy. Far more than technically inclined folks.
This, Piracy is at best, fraud, not theft. And here I'm talking about commercial piracy where you charge people actual money in exchange illegitimate copies.
Also yes, "normal" (I prefer "mundane") people pirate as much, if not more than technically inclined people.
Finally, piracy has actually lead to increased sales.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
If someone wants me to migrate away from Android to their pet OS, then not having Google+ will be the kilelr feature.
so basically, you are saying you are willing to buy their hardware at a loss to them, but you aren't willing to participate in any of the add-on services that actually earn them a profit.
But Google aren't selling the hardware at a loss. In fact it's not even Google's hardware, it's Asus' hardware and they aren't making a loss either.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Here, any download has to make it past two different suites on my workstation before it even gets across to the tablets. I have more tools, just only two that can scan Android.
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY steals "IP" via the HDMI stream, even though it's been completely broken for over a year. In fact I install devices for my clients to disable HDCP completely, all Theater installs come with an HDFury installed on the Bluray player and the cable box to disable that craptastic abortion called HDCP.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
you are wrong. nexus devices in particular are essentially cost, plus some padding for support, returns, and shipping.
why do you think the nexus 4 retailed at $300, but galaxy line starts at over $600?
Blame the annoying but necessary hack at the time of NAT and not google. All the user friendly desktop sharing methods work with a relaying point in the middle that both ends connect to. Everything else involves port forwarding, tunnelling or a VPN.
They aren't selling at a loss. But even if they were, there's nothing wrong with not using their other services. That's the risk they take by selling it that cheap. If they don't like it, charge more.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Not being able to uninstall != lockin. Not being able to install a competitor is locking. Not being able to change the default handler is lockin, but you can do that.
Heck, even not being able to uninstall is a feature of the OEM not the OS. Nothing in the OS prevents those apps from being uninstalled- in fact various OEMs have shipped with many of those apps replaced. Samsung uses their own browser, and Verizon was using a different maps app for a while. The fact that it can't be uninstalled is a technical limitation in the fact its typically placed in system memory when shipped for ease of implementation by the OEM.
So yeah, no Android lockin here.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Google is the worst with the bait and switch game. They've done it with every service that they offer and now they're doing it to Android.
I hate to say it, but my next phone might just be Windows based. At least I know exactly where Microsoft stands.
Your name has BORG in it! And you talk down about the sharing all your info with the collective? You're supposed to tell the guy that Resistance Is Futile!
What's new about the profiles is that now they can be restricted from certain apps or actions (with some granularity), for parental control.
Other new features include:
* Intermittent Wi-Fi scanning for location (saves battery)
* OpenGL ES 3.0 support
* Bluetooth 4.0 LE and AVRCP 1.3 support
* Autocompleting dialpad
* Virtual surround sound
There's more under the hood changes:
* SELinux MAC system support for the app sandbox
* Better WPA2 EAP and Phase 2 authentication support
* Hardware root of trust support
* Modular DRM support (e.g. allows 1080p Netflix)
* Hardware geofencing
* Media muxer and VP8 encoding
* And of course, further rendering and other optimisations
Still, it's no ICS or Key Lime Pie.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Could somebody please explain to me why on earth you need a Full HD (1080p) resolution on a 5-11" screen? That's the resolution of my 57" TV. Besides costing a lot of battery life, I don't get it. Could people see the difference between a 1080p 5" screen vs a 720p or even 480p 5" screen? To me it just sounds like Marketing teams are pushing for this, so they can put the "Full HD" logo on the slides.
From Virgin: Venture, Chaser, and Optimus Elite still have 2.3. Ting also has the Optimus Elite.
and you have to root the phone to
can't turn that off without rooting your phone
And rooting is trivial on many phones. So your score is zero in being able to choose a phone according to your own preferences.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
3. You do not deprive them of their item by copying it. If you make a painting and I take a picture of it, you still have the painting.
4. You claimed your language had no words for it. Two word phrases are fine. If klopi means theft than greek is an imprecise language. Theft requires one to be deprived of the item, not a simply copy made. If I copy an mp3 the original is not destroyed.
Honestly, this problem with your language forces you to think these are the same thing. They are simply not. By using the same words it influences you to believe they are the same, when they are very different.
You know a "simple XOR" of the data with a one time pad key is theoretically unbreakable...
What matters is how you generate the keystream, not how you apply it to the data.
My point remains: some wireless carriers still think it proper to continue to sell old phones. So what affordable wireless carrier should U.S. residents patronize instead of Virgin Mobile? And what should someone who still has a 2.3 phone but doesn't yet qualify for a 2-year replacement do?
from a practical standpoint I just don't see it. I find it much easier to share stuff and interact with family members, especially the less tech savy, then I could if the services were separate.
From the practical standpoint, it would have been much easier to share stuff and interact with family members if all that integration was with Facebook rather than G+. Very few people are actually using G+. And it used to be better than Facebook, but they have managed to fuck up UI to the point where it's actually more painful now.
I said "it will get updated" not "it will get updated for life"
I have 4.3 and the "old" S3 is still on 4.1. And you CAN get 4.2.2 on the Nexus S with a custom rom, which is another feature of the Nexus line.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication