QuakeCon 2013: Carmack On Next-Gen Console Hardware

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QuakeCon 2013: Carmack On Next-Gen Console Hardware

Posted by Soulskill on Friday August 2, 2013 @01:28AM from the developers-will-make-it-succeed-or-fail dept.

jones_supa writes "QuakeCon 2013 is running full tilt. John Carmack kicked off his speech by addressing the 'elephant in the room,' discussing the arrival of a new console generation to a crowd of attendees at the largely PC-focused event. He's optimistic about the coming console cycle, commenting that it's 'obviously going to be a good thing for gamers, developers, and an excellent thing for AMD.' John said he hasn't run quite enough tests on the hardware for the two consoles, but said they're both 'very close, and very good.' In his traditional long talk (watch on YouTube), Carmack also commented on Microsoft's always-on Kinect, its recently reversed DRM policies for the upcoming Xbox One, the death of optical media, and the state of handheld gaming."

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Little difference anymore between PC/console by TWiTfan · 2013-08-02 01:38 · Score: 3, Interesting

Both the PS4 and Xbox One will have s86 architecture, and are essentially just heavily customized PC's (to the point where porting between PC and these consoles will be trivial). So is the distinction between console and PC even meaninful anymore? Aside from the control scheme and openess of software installation, there really isn't much difference.

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
1. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by TWiTfan · 2013-08-02 01:39 · Score: 1
  
  oops...x86
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
2. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Mike+Mentalist · 2013-08-02 01:45 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Nobody buys a console because they find the internal architecture interesting.
  
  --
  I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
3. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by TWiTfan · 2013-08-02 01:49 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No, but a common architecture will make it a helluva lot easier on developers, which should result in more and better games (which DO matter).
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
4. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  I've been using my Xbox 360 controller on my PC a lot lately, especially with Steam games.
  The difference to the console experience is minimal.
  I hope the Xbox One controller will be as supported by PC developers as much as the Xbox 360 one is now.
5. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 01:56 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's essentially been like this ever since the original x-box. The distinction is meaningful because the games are still designed with interface control schemes that target one category or the other. Until consoles are shipped with a mouse/keyboard (never), it will remain as a meaningful distinction.
6. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by evilRhino · 2013-08-02 01:57 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, it means that the lazy software developers will for many years hence tailor their PC releases (actually console ports) to whatever outdated hardware is set for these next-gen consoles.
7. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  Yup, the lazy software developers that get 0 extra time from their manager to work on the PC port because "consoles makes money, so do not spend time on the PC port".
8. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by SuricouRaven · 2013-08-02 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  That's going to make writing emulators much easier. Might even be able to do it using hardware-aided virtualisation, nice and fast, and half the code you'd need is already open-source for PC virtualisation.
9. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:17 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  A common architecture means that consoles will continue to hold back the progress of cross platform PC games. My current gaming rig is already an order of magnitude more powerful than either the XBone or PS4.
10. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by swan5566 · 2013-08-02 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  One difference still is the price point. Even though the major vendors continue to flirt with "oh, they'll still buy it at this price" type of thinking (and suffer the consequences), they are still a ways off from what a solid PC gaming system costs.
  
  --
  In debates about Christianity, there are two groups: those looking for answers, and those looking to just ask questions.
11. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by pr0fessor · 2013-08-02 02:28 · Score: 1
  
  more directly they will use something like the unity or unreal engines so it can be one and done {not really but a heck of a lot easier than not}
12. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by HaZardman27 · 2013-08-02 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  Aside from the control scheme and openess of software installation, there really isn't much difference.
  Some of the biggest games on PC (Counter Strike: Global Offensive, DotA 2, League of Legends) are derivatives of games which started as mods for PC games. Games like Skyrim and Torchlight II have been greatly expanded by the modding communities. Most of the value of games like the new Shadowrun Returns will be provided by modders. Until consoles support modding communities, there will always be a significant difference between PC and consoles.
  
  --
  Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
13. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Bengie · 2013-08-02 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  The newer architectures are using newer designs that scale well. It should be trivial to just add better textures and increase special effects on the desktop version.
14. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by organgtool · 2013-08-02 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  I thought the same thing when the first generation XBox came out. What I failed to realize was:
  
  - It is a hell of a lot easier to manage updates to the OS, firmware, drivers, and games on a console hooked up to a large-screen tv with a proper 10-foot interface than a PC
  - There is a convenience to having a separate box that's DRM'ed instead of having games trying to own my PC
  - That DRM allows for the purchase and sale of used games that isn't available on the PC, not to mention borrowing games without having DRM to circumvent
  - The console provides a unified interface for social gaming. I can see what games other friends are playing and join in their session or send them a message to try to convince them to play a different game
  - I can be sure that games on a console perform reasonably well without having to upgrade any hardware
  
  I'm not trying to say that there aren't advantages to playing games on the PC. I'm just providing counter-arguments to the growing belief that a significant number of console gamers are going to switch to the PC for next-gen games.
15. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:31 · Score: 0
  
  There are no lazy software developers in gaming. Whatever point you were going for here, you have merely shown your ignorance.
16. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by rolfwind · 2013-08-02 03:32 · Score: 1
  
  There is little difference between the two because the Xbox has effectively killed PC gaming as a seperate category for the publisher's intents and purposes. This leads to a more console oriented market whereas before it was a dual console and PC market, both being pretty different and thus allowing different games to thrive within each.
  PC are more powerful though but that difference doesn't really matter anymore because the increase visually it buys isn't all that grand for anything under a $1200 machine.
17. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:47 · Score: 0
  
  I don't understand why people think this is the problem. The problem when porting isn't the architecture (I mean sure, memory constraints etc come into it), it's the APIs being used. Porting between Windows and Xbox will be trivial, sure. But porting to PS4 or mac will still be pretty much as hard as it ever has been.
18. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:50 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think you know how the game industry works. A common arch will not make it easier for developers to make better games. It will only make it easier to port more of the same lame franchise product to all the consoles.
19. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Verunks · 2013-08-02 04:30 · Score: 2
  
  It's essentially been like this ever since the original x-box.
  not really, the xbox 1 is x86 but the 360, ps3 and wii are ppc based, and the cell in the ps3 is also quite different because of the SPUs
20. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by spire3661 · 2013-08-02 04:35 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Umm bullshit. One of the reasons I bought a PS3 is to run Linux on the exotic hardware.
  
  --
  Good-bye
21. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:37 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Better textures is only part of it and would be exactly the type of sloppy porting job I'm talking about. What about higher poly models, more objects on screen, better lighting, more advanced shaders, more accurate physics, smarter AI, larger environments, deeper gameplay and controls optimized for keyboard/mouse?
22. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:41 · Score: 0
  
  A solid gaming PC costs only marginally more than either next gen console. A really good gaming PC that will blow away both consoles can be had for about $1000 and can be used for much more than gaming.
23. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by tlhIngan · 2013-08-02 04:52 · Score: 2
  
  There is little difference between the two because the Xbox has effectively killed PC gaming as a seperate category for the publisher's intents and purposes. This leads to a more console oriented market whereas before it was a dual console and PC market, both being pretty different and thus allowing different games to thrive within each.
  PC are more powerful though but that difference doesn't really matter anymore because the increase visually it buys isn't all that grand for anything under a $1200 machine.
  I think the 90% piracy rate on PCs had something to do with it (piracy on Xbox360 was around 10% for comparison). Then publishers put on DRM and you had the whole SecuROM fiasco that burned out optical drives.
  All the Xbox did was show that between the Xbox and PS2, consoles were getting "good enough". The PS3 and Xbox360 basically said that things were pretty much there and consoles were no longer the huge compromises they once were when compared to PCs.
  Publishers switched over because you could develop for PCs and load it up with DRM crap, or develop for consoles (which were "good enough") suffer less piracy and get more people paying for it. And people were buying consoles as well because it was more "social" and fun to play on the big screen TV than the little monitor.
  What's happened since then is the universal DRM for PC now - Steam. And the proliferation of Intel graphics cards (around the time of the Xbox, people still used external video chips) which basically meant 90% of PCs sold were doing fairly poorly in the graphics department (and NVidia and AMD/ATi saw their marketshare dwindle as people rushed for cheaper Intel graphics).
  But, the PC adapted - no longer were AAA titles going to PCs, which meant indie games rose in prominence - a good indie game (most are crap, still) now has a huge hungry base to which people would buy them and play with. And since these were low-budget productions, DRM wasn't really an issue, since piracy tended to help. And these games worked even on piss-poor Intel graphics, which meant huge market. Plus the rise of mobile gaming helped.
  Consoles this round took notice and if you're paying attention, you'll see both Sony and Microsoft are trying hard to attract indies to their consoles.
24. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Narishma · 2013-08-02 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  The biggest difference between PC and consoles has always been that consoles have a fixed hardware configuration. That's still the case regardless of what CPU architecture they use.
  
  --
  Mada mada dane.
25. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Narishma · 2013-08-02 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  You'd think so, but, as the original Xbox has shown, that's not really the case.
  
  --
  Mada mada dane.
26. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2013-08-02 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is value. PC's still cost a lot more (when you get comparatively the same specs) then a game console. I'd rather a $500 investment every 5 - 8 years then $2000 every couple of years to play the current games.
  Also, PC's have always suffered from configuritis. When you make a PC game, you have to make the code work on a broad spectrum of hardware configurations, including the shitty budget PC's you get at Best Buy. Even if you just port a PC game to a console, you benefit from being able to streamline the code specifically for a set of hardware that will not change.
  Finally, PC's are just not cool anymore. I don't want to have a large empty shoebox connected to my TV, fans whirring away. I also don't want to hermit myself away in a room with a monitor on a desktop sitting in an uncomfortable chair with shitty stereo speakers. I spent' $10k on my home theater system for a reason, not to spend my day in front of a desk looking at 24" TV and think I am cooler than all those people on a console.
  
  --
  I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
27. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 06:09 · Score: 0
  
  Dev here. Clearly you know absolutely nothing about software development.
  All of those items you touched on can be designed in a way to be programmatically scalable. Many commercial engines are already designed to do so out of the box.
  The new x86 console architecture is a godsend. We target a high end PC, scale back easy to change dynamic settings, compress/resize textures, and bake for consoles.
  What is it that you're not getting here? This change in architecture benefits cross platform as much as possible, minus DRM bits. There is nothing short of making the system itself upgradable that could further balance the gaming spectrum. Yes the past generation halted ONE market from squeezing out another 25% visual fidelity. This generation won't suffer from that. In fact, PC gaming is about to benefit immensly by having to write better code optimized for mid end systems.
  Your entire post is nonsense and buzzwords. In context, you are (thank goodness) completely mistaken.
28. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by filthpickle · 2013-08-02 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  - It is a hell of a lot easier to manage updates to the OS, firmware, drivers, and games on a console hooked up to a large-screen tv with a proper 10-foot interface than a PC
  I don't think it is really that much easier. It is somewhat easier, yes. It is bolded hell easier? Not IMO.
  
  The console provides a unified interface for social gaming. I can see what games other friends are playing and join in their session or send them a message to try to convince them to play a different game
  You can do this (with any game, steam or not) in steam
  
  I can be sure that games on a console perform reasonably well without having to upgrade any hardware.
  PC gamers are also sure. One of the unexpected side effects of consoles taking over. I built my gaming rig in 2009. I upgraded the video card about 6 months ago because I got a 2560x1440 monitor and wanted to run everything in that res. I did not need to upgrade the video card otherwise. I buy any game I like and do not need to even consider whether it will run, it will. If you build a decent machine you do not need to worry about this anymore. Maybe, and I mean maybe, you would run into trouble when the next gen consoles come out and the performance bar gets bumped up a notch...but how often does that happen?
29. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by khellendros1984 · 2013-08-02 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  Because keeping around a decent performing PC precludes using it with your overpriced speaker system, and $2000 every 2 years is "required" to keep up with console stats. Right.
  
  You can build a decent PC for under $1000. You can keep it butter-smooth on new games for $300 every couple years for a GPU upgrade, and an additional amount every 5 years or so for a CPU/mobo upgrade.
  
  On a separate note, I still can't get over your quote on your TV setup, though. I couldn't imagine $10k being remotely worth it, to me. Then again, I'm happy with my $800 TV and $200 speakers. To each their own.
  
  --
  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
30. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by vux984 · 2013-08-02 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  But emulating the instruction set shouldn't even be necessary at all. Xbox 'emulation' should really be 'virtualization'. The article you link talks about 20 different variations on the MOV instruction... which is entirely unimportant.
  That leaves the audio/video and operating system stuff, which admittedly is still potentially a lot of work but the CPU itself doesn't need to be emulated at all, which saves them a ton of work relative to say what we're going to be looking at for a PS3 emulator or the N64 one.
31. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 06:57 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, you're not a dev because I'm a dev AND game artist and I know you're full of shit. This is evident by every single cross platform game that targets consoles getting an absolutely crap PC port, straight with dumbed down console limits.
32. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 07:40 · Score: 0
  
  Not a dev here.
  By making the next gen console closer to the lower middle end PC, they are raising the lowest common denominator for those crappy ports. The next gen now have decent amount of RAM for your code and textures and not have to worry about when and where they are coming from (DMA from storage or swapped out etc)
33. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by chuckinator · 2013-08-02 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  Higher vertex counts in meshes and more objects on screen should be configurable values. I can almost guarantee you that the reasons holding back better lighting and more advanced shaders is the fact that they're not necessarily using the full power of the graphics chip right now. The rest is all coding. Considering that most games are either going to use the Bethesda FPRPG engine, Unreal, Unity, Source, and the developers aren't likely to be coding an engine from scratch, I don't think hardware design considerations are going to have a huge impact on any of that.
34. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  The distinction that has always been important to me is whether I can play the game from my office desk on a 24" monitor or from a very comfortable couch on a 55" HDTV and 5.1 surround speaker system.
  I do both. Because while some games are really meant for the PC, my living room setup makes up for some of the loss of cutting edge graphics rendering.
35. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  My current gaming rig is already an order of magnitude more powerful than either the XBone or PS4.
  No, it isn't. Do you have an 8-core CPU with the fast specialized busses and high bandwidth RAM the PS4 does? No, because you simply can't buy a PC with those things.
36. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by theArtificial · 2013-08-02 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  True, another point that is glossed over with PC to console comparisons is that one is subsidized. When you buy a PC you're not getting it at a cheaper price because you'll be buying software and peripherals with it. Here are articles highlighting the PS3 and the Xbox360. Highlighted from the articles:
  
  Earlier numbers by Business Week may have reported that Microsoft is losing $126 on every Xbox 360 sold
  and
  
  Pricing the PlayStation 3 below its production cost caused Sony to lose $2.16 billion in 2007 and $1.16 billion in 2008, the company revealed today.
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
37. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by lgw · 2013-08-02 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  Finally, PC's are just not cool anymore.
  True enough - I don't need a space heater when my gaming rig fires up. Or did you did mean something about fashion? Are bellbottoms back in style yet? I've been hearing disco-like music again - can polyester leisure suits be far behind? Yes, lets be sure to stay in fashion.
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
38. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  A really good gaming PC that will blow away both consoles can be had for about $1000 and can be used for much more than gaming.
  Diminishing returns.
  Yes, you can buy a PC that has better tech specs than the current consoles but you'll play hell buying one with the bandwidth/specialized busses/RAM of the next. And what will the extra money do? Not all that much. Sure the games might be slightly prettier and you get access to some games that haven't had a console version....yet. But that's about it. It's better in some ways but not better enough for a lot of people to justify spending 600 or more dollars on the "better". That's money you can spend on Gas, pay bills, or buy more games.
  And if you read the PC gaming magazines you'll see that their recommended "baseline" rigs cost around 1400, not 1000.
  So for some people it's smarter to buy some refurb or cheap PC AND a console and still have money for games. Have you ever wondered why the "Free to Play" thing started on the PC? Because PC gamers in Markets outside of US/CA/UK are cheap-ass pirates who don't want to pay for anything. They grew up with 80's home computers (and their eastern european/russian knock-offs) with tape drives and copied games using dual deck cassette players so they got used to "free games" and resent anybody or anything that tries to get them to pay for something.
  Groups like Fairlight started out in Europe for a reason. The European game development community is FULL of these people, anti-console ex-pirates now making indie games.....hypocrites.
  
  and can be used for much more than gaming.
  1995 called it wants it's argument back.
  Practically every console since the PSone has additional non-gaming functionality, from CD playing to DVD playing to web browsers.
39. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by theArtificial · 2013-08-02 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  A common architecture means that consoles will continue to hold back the progress of cross platform PC games
  Guess that means Skyrim and Team Fortress 2 won't be able to be modded on the PC :(
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
40. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  Some of the biggest games on PC (Counter Strike: Global Offensive, DotA 2, League of Legends) are derivatives of games which started as mods for PC games.
  
  Yes, because PC gamers are cheap asses who don't want to pay more than 5 bucks for a game and then want to play it forever with mods because they blew all their cash on their "rig" and don't have much money left for games.
  Hey, maybe developers would pay more attention to the PC version of cross-platform games if PC Gamers actually bought games other than during Steam sales or from GoG. We see that here on slashdot all the time: "I only buy games from Steam Sales"
41. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 13:37 · Score: 0
  
  You and about 500 other people. So, on the grand scale of things, nobody.
42. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 15:47 · Score: 0
  
  You mean x86_64 (there are really no 32-bit CPUs anymore only 64-bit)
43. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by eexaa · 2013-08-03 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  FYI there's a whole lot of 32bit ARM CPUs around, placed in pretty much everything.
44. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Tough+Love · 2013-08-03 18:20 · Score: 1
  
  PC's are just not cool anymore
  An Xbox is just a locked down PC that can't be expanded. What's cool about that?
  And for that matter what make you think that any form of couch potatoism is cool these days?
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
45. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by allcoolnameswheretak · 2013-08-05 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  "PC gamers".
  You keep using that term.
  I don't think it means what you think it means.
46. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by HaZardman27 · 2013-08-05 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  We see that here on slashdot all the time: "I only buy games from Steam Sales"
  And slashdot is somehow representative of normal video game consumers? What's your point?
  
  Obviously someone is purchasing those games at full price or nobody would be making PC games anymore.
  
  --
  Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
47. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by hobarrera · 2013-08-07 02:05 · Score: 1
  
  Except the PS3, of course, which sold a lot for clusters and researchers due to their unique processor.
48. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by hobarrera · 2013-08-07 02:11 · Score: 1
  
  I think the 90% piracy rate on PCs had something to do with it (piracy on Xbox360 was around 10% for comparison).
  I know plenty of 360 owner, and only a couple have one or two legit games.
  Piracy might be that low in the US, but it's a different thing outside the US. The 360 sold a lot more than the PS3 at some point because of the cost of games and the fact that the former could be pirated.
  
  Then publishers put on DRM and you had the whole SecuROM fiasco that burned out optical drives.
  All the Xbox did was show that between the Xbox and PS2, consoles were getting "good enough". The PS3 and Xbox360 basically said that things were pretty much there and consoles were no longer the huge compromises they once were when compared to PCs.
  Publishers switched over because you could develop for PCs and load it up with DRM crap, or develop for consoles (which were "good enough") suffer less piracy and get more people paying for it. And people were buying consoles as well because it was more "social" and fun to play on the big screen TV than the little monitor.
  What's happened since then is the universal DRM for PC now - Steam. And the proliferation of Intel graphics cards (around the time of the Xbox, people still used external video chips) which basically meant 90% of PCs sold were doing fairly poorly in the graphics department (and NVidia and AMD/ATi saw their marketshare dwindle as people rushed for cheaper Intel graphics).
  But, the PC adapted - no longer were AAA titles going to PCs, which meant indie games rose in prominence - a good indie game (most are crap, still) now has a huge hungry base to which people would buy them and play with. And since these were low-budget productions, DRM wasn't really an issue, since piracy tended to help. And these games worked even on piss-poor Intel graphics, which meant huge market. Plus the rise of mobile gaming helped.
  Consoles this round took notice and if you're paying attention, you'll see both Sony and Microsoft are trying hard to attract indies to their consoles.
  The (few) most popuar indie games have pretty good graphics, and are pretty good AND successful. AAA games don't exist any more (on any platform), all those franchises have been brought by EA or alike and burnt to the ground (Simcity? Mass Effect? C&C The list is endless!).
49. Re:Little difference anymore between PC/console by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-07 06:40 · Score: 0
  
  4 bobcat modules, not 8 cores. Bobcat was designed as low power and it's not exactly fast. So yes, his cpu is significantly faster. Also gddr5 is not ideal for many purposes, and general tasks that a cpu would do is one of them. Essentially both boxes are a mid range gpu with a cpu on the side.
So... by Type44Q · 2013-08-02 01:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, I RTFA. So both consoles are virtually the same and Kinect kinda sucks.
Somehow I was hoping for a bit more...
1. Re:So... by jeffmflanagan · 2013-08-02 02:53 · Score: 2
  
  Kinect should be very good on the new console. It's pretty good on the 360, allowing games that make you more fit rather than sitting on the couch, but currently has a slight delay in recognition. This is supposed to be significantly reduced in the new console. Obviously it's not a good fit for many games, but for fitness, one-on-one sports, and dance games it's great.
2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:06 · Score: 0
  
  The only way kinect/wii games are making you fitter is if you barely do any exercise as it is.
  If you even walk 20 or 30 minutes a day that kind of light aerobics isn't doing anything for your "fitness".
3. Re:So... by jeffmflanagan · 2013-08-02 03:12 · Score: 1
  
  Why walk for 20-30 minutes when you can be moving much more than walking involves, and not get bored for hours while playing a game?
4. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:17 · Score: 0
  
  Why walk for 20-30 minutes when you can be moving much more than walking involves, and not get bored for hours while playing a game?
  Your crippling addiction to video games, to the point of being bored by absolutely any sort of physical activity, is not our problem.
5. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  Why walk for 20-30 minutes when you can be moving much more than walking involves, and not get bored for hours while playing a game?
  Your crippling addiction to video games, to the point of being bored by absolutely any sort of physical activity, is not our problem.
  It is your problem when his health care expenditures are factored into your health insurance premiums. Is it a bit sad? Sure. But if it improves his exercise habits at all, then good for him.
6. Re:So... by Narishma · 2013-08-02 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  If you want more you should watch the video.
  
  --
  Mada mada dane.
7. Re:So... by Type44Q · 2013-08-02 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  Video, what video? (That damned NoScript...) :p
8. Re:So... by Tough+Love · 2013-08-03 18:23 · Score: 1
  
  Waving a controller in one hand makes you fit?
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Comments on the poll by methano · 2013-08-02 02:00 · Score: 3, Informative

So we don't do comments on the poll anymore? Is this where I have to come to comment on the poll? What's going on? Maybe I don't think there are enough options. Maybe I have some random Commander Taco comment. What do I do now?
1. Re:Comments on the poll by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:14 · Score: 0
  
  Especially after 9% of voters (yeah, I know, don't take the polls seriously...) said they come primarily for the polls: http://slashdot.org/poll/2611/when-it-comes-to-slashdot-i-normally
  This is the second poll that was immediately archived, too.
2. Re:Comments on the poll by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 05:40 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, where am I supposed to point out that using a hidden SSID is dumb because it's the wireless equivalent of putting duct tape over a keyhole so no one will find it?
Polls by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:01 · Score: 0

Why the hell are all the polls being archived as soon as they're created now?
1. Re:Polls by antdude · 2013-08-02 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  Ditto. :( /. sucks! :(
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
well then by slashmydots · 2013-08-02 02:04 · Score: 0, Troll

"He's optimistic about the coming console cycle, commenting that it's 'obviously going to be a good thing for gamers, developers, and an excellent thing for AMD"
Well then he's an idiot who lives in his own little fake reality because that sure as hell isn't what's happening.
1. Re:well then by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:18 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah! What the fuck does John Carmack know about developing videogames anyway??
2. Re:well then by Xest · 2013-08-02 02:24 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not sure, Sony is being more open than ever, a complete u-turn from it's past where it's actually banning online passes and such DRM from it's system and forcing Microsoft to follow suit.
  We'll see greater plurality of platforms but increased compatibility with the new console hardware being largely compatible with PC hardware which means we should see far less of the low quality ports of the last generation - porting between the XBox One, PS4, Wii U, and PC will be way easier than between the 360, PS3, Wii, and PC due to the plague of fundamental architecture differences with the existing generation.
  Sony realised their biggest fuckup last generation initially was abysmal developer tools and they're working on that.
  So yes I think he's spot on, for gamers things are better - less DRM, more platform choices, better quality cross platform titles, easier publishing for indie developers across all platforms now announced. For developers they have better tools, far fewer and much simpler differences between platforms making porting a breeze in comparison and again easier publishing for indie devs.
  I'll probably end up buying every platform this generation again (well, I only have the XBox One and PS4 to go anyway) and I'm frankly looking forward to all of them. The XBox One was my only concern but since the DRM u-turn and the announcement of indie publishing and development on consumer consoles, coupled with removal of chief idiot Don Mattrick my concerns have been removed. I was never one for the Kinect/NSA conspiracy theory, really, the NSA isn't going to be able to sneak a live stream of video over my networking hardware without me spotting it and even if they wanted to they could do the same with my webcam or my phone or tablet or plethora of other camera integrated devices that exist nowadays anyway.
  It wasn't looking that great a round at first with Microsoft's braindead initial announcement, and the Wii U looking a little pointless but now I have a Wii U and played through Lego City Undercover and Pikmin 3 coupled with the above mentioned policy changes by Microsoft, as well as some decent PC releases at last this last year or so (Diablo 3, Starcraft, Wargame: Airland Battle to name a few) I'm content right now providing nothing stupid happens in the meantime to change that.
  What exactly do you think is happening that we should all be concerned about? I still have concerns, I still want way less DRM on PC and yes that includes Valve but things right now are looking better than they were previous gen - the Wii U looks set to have less titles but more quality titles unlike the Wii which was a software crap fest, the PS4 will hopefully be more consumer friendly and is hopefully more polished than the anti-consumer patch-fest that was the PS3, the XBox One is due to run quiet and cooler than the aeroplane sounding radiator that was the 360 and has had to follow Sony's lead in DRM removal and the PC is becoming more competitive in terms of games on offer. I know the fanboys will bitch and moan about opposing systems but if a system has something I like I don't intend to artificially limit myself from not being able to enjoy it based on something as petty as that.
3. Re:well then by jeffmflanagan · 2013-08-02 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  Does it occur to you that you probably live in an angry little fake reality, and lash out at more knowledgable people?
4. Re:well then by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:36 · Score: 0
  
  Are you serious about Sony? Banning Online Passes... don't fall for their PR. They just included an Online pass with Last of Us... that just came out during E3.
5. Re:well then by Xest · 2013-08-02 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  Well you may be right, I don't intend to purchase either right at release so hopefully I'll have time to find out how honest they are before I do decide to make my purchase.
  In fact, it sounds like here in the UK we're getting both consoles later than people in North America anyway so even if I was going to purchase at UK release that'd give at least a few weeks to see if there's any suggestion of backtracking.
  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, Sony haven't done much to earn people's trust but I do think there are a few signs suggesting they're turning things around a little and learning from their mistakes not just in terms of their console but in their smartphones, cameras, and other products too to be fair.
6. Re:well then by spire3661 · 2013-08-02 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  RAGE speaks volumes on Carmack's ability to make games in the 21st century
  
  --
  Good-bye
7. Re:well then by spire3661 · 2013-08-02 04:46 · Score: 2
  
  THe reason i wont buy an Xbox one is that Im tired of Microsoft trying to wring a penny out of EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the console. That and forcing a camera in my living room aint happening.
  
  --
  Good-bye
8. Re:well then by theArtificial · 2013-08-02 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  You mean the title that won a number of awards? Also, I hope you're not referring to the driver issue which was ATI and their glorious OpenGL implementation. Launch day driver issues are a reoccurring theme for ATI. Carmack makes engines, not games. You're also conveniently ignoring Doom3 and Quake Wars (mega texture tech was used in this, too). While I don't think megatexture was the best choice simply for accessibility, but it's an interesting concept. You may or may not be aware that the delay for RAGE was mainly due to the art teams, most of the engine heavy lifting was completed years prior.
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
9. Re:well then by spire3661 · 2013-08-02 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  Metacritic user score: 4.8
  
  Industry awards mean fuck all when the USERS hate your game.
  
  --
  Good-bye
10. Re:well then by theArtificial · 2013-08-02 06:49 · Score: 2
  
  If you read some of those negative comments, you'll see the majority are about graphical issues. Many of these "reviews" are about as insightful as app store comments saying the app sucks because it doesn't run on their device. How is that objective? "Hey, I stubbed my toe, this stairway sucks. Would not walk again 0/10"
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
11. Re:well then by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  The "No online passes" thing is a new policy, only applies to the PS4, not to the already existing publisher contracts with the PS3.
12. Re:well then by hobarrera · 2013-08-07 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, sony made a u-turn and is being friendly. But since it's a closed hardware with a close ecosystem, there's no garantee that they won't get back on their usual [evil] track once they've sold enough PS4.
  For me to buy a PS4 from them, they need to convince me they'll NEVER go bad. And that I'll get better-than-PC games, of course.
Microsoft did not reverse their DRM decision. by SuricouRaven · 2013-08-02 02:20 · Score: 0

They just directed the decision back to the publishers - it's up to them now if they will require games use an always-on connection, or lock each purchase to a specific console or steam account to prevent resale. Microsoft provides support for such restrictions, but doesn't require they be used.
1. Re:Microsoft did not reverse their DRM decision. by TWiTfan · 2013-08-02 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  That's the exact same position as Sony. Yet another thing both consoles share in common, I suppose.
  Would have been nice for at least one of them to take a stand and say "No, we're not allowing publishers to put always-on requirements on any single-player game on our console, PERIOD." But neither wants to risk pissing off the developers.
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
2. Re:Microsoft did not reverse their DRM decision. by Pinky's+Brain · 2013-08-02 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  When a market provides options then those options will be used for competitive advantage ... always online is a competitive disadvantage, prepare to see it not be a problem. Ubisoft recanted on the PC for good reason ...
  Only Blizzard is the exception to prove the rule, they have the Apple like halo power to convince the sheep to ignore the cattleprods ... but they saved me from making a mistake and buying Diablo 3, so all's well that ends well.
3. Re:Microsoft did not reverse their DRM decision. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:34 · Score: 0
  
  Consider Sony's most recent first part published game -- Last of Us included an Online Pass (basically DRM for physical media) -- I don't look for Sony to out right ban DRM. I don't look for MSFT to ban it either.
4. Re:Microsoft did not reverse their DRM decision. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 09:38 · Score: 0
  
  If the console doesn't require always on (or a 24-hour check in), then it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to enforce DRM on a single-player game. Microsoft was originally going to enforce the 24-hour check, now they are not. So the only thing publishers can possibly do is limit online play through the use of a one-time code, which is being used even for current consoles. Microsoft was originally going to expand the DRM scheme to single-player games as well, but they reversed it.
Call me when... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:24 · Score: 2

Call me when consoles can do:
* At least 60 FPS on 4k TVs.
* Allow upgrading of the graphics, and storage.
* Allow modding of the games.
* And most of all, allow keyboard and mouse.
PCs can.
The price, however high, is totally dependent on the buyer.
But the point is that 'the buyer' has choices and features on the PC.
Consoles == No choice (locked in).
1. Re:Call me when... by Mike+Mentalist · 2013-08-02 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Many people don't need choices and features like those things.
  
  --
  I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
2. Re:Call me when... by TWiTfan · 2013-08-02 02:33 · Score: 2
  
  Allow upgrading of the graphics, and storage.
  If they allowed that, consoles would end up a fractured mess just like PC's. It would be giving up one of the biggest strengths the consoles have (their consistency). One of the best things I love about my consoles is never having to check the "system requirements" section to see if my system can handle the game (and how well), or having to adjust sliders to try and get decent fps, or having to figure out where my current graphics card falls on the "minimum requirement vs. optimal requirement" scale, or having to upgrade yet again.
  There is something to be said for just seeing "Xbox 360" or "PS4" on the box and knowing with absolute certainty that I can buy it, go home, pop it in the console, and get the exact same experience as everyone else without any worries or upgrades.
  
  --
  The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
3. Re:Call me when... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 02:46 · Score: 0
  
  Err, get a PC.
  Console manufacturers have zero interest in "calling" *you*.
4. Re:Call me when... by dnaumov · 2013-08-02 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  Call me when consoles can do:
  * At least 60 FPS on 4k TVs.
  PCs can.
  Actually, they can't. With a monster like GTX Titan you would only get maybe 30-40fps maximum when gaming at 4K resolution.
5. Re:Call me when... by spire3661 · 2013-08-02 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  There is something to be said for just hopping in my Corolla and knowing its going to start every day for the next 10 years. That doesnt mean its fun or exciting, only consistent. The plain fact is, the PC is a premium experience, but you give up convenience for outright performance and extensibility.
  
  --
  Good-bye
6. Re:Call me when... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:55 · Score: 0
  
  I see consoles as no different for having to check specs. You still have to make sure you get games that will work with your console and not just with a previous model or a different company's consoles. I don't see how that's any different than looking at the requirements for a PC game.
7. Re:Call me when... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 05:19 · Score: 0
  
  I see consoles as no different for having to check specs. You still have to make sure you get games that will work with your console and not just with a previous model or a different company's consoles. I don't see how that's any different than looking at the requirements for a PC game.
  LOL. Then you are a total moron if you can't see a difference. I can tell you in a fraction of a second, while standing 10 feet away, whether a game runs on the 360, PS3, Wii U, or whatever other console. Can you do the same with a PC game and know whether it runs with your nvidia card model A, on CPU model B with clock speed C, and D GB of memory? My grandma could pick out a game for my console. Doubt she could do that for your PC.
  Saying you don't see any difference between the two is sort of like telling your girlfriend (yeah, I know...wrong audience for this analogy) that you don't see a difference between seeing a naked chick on TV and banging a naked chick in her bed while she's at work.
8. Re:Call me when... by vux984 · 2013-08-02 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  You could turn off FSAA16 on a 4K screen. :)
9. Re:Call me when... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  Try 15 to 20 fps. Titan isn't quite the monster that some people think. You'd need 4 to hold 60 fps. Exceptions exist for light-weight games, of course.
  You'd be better off with a bunch of 7970s, if you wanted to have that many graphics cards. Half the price, and nearly the same performance - the Kepler architecture kind of falls on its face at high resolutions compared to the GCN architecture.
10. Re:Call me when... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 07:43 · Score: 0
  
  Most 4K _TV_ don't exactly have 60fps capable HDMI input interfaces either.
11. Re:Call me when... by lgw · 2013-08-02 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  . Can you do the same with a PC game and know whether it runs with your nvidia card model A, on CPU model B with clock speed C, and D GB of memory?
  
  Yes. The game is for sale in Steam or GoG, therefore it runs on my PC (or has huge warnings all over the store page that it doesn't run on some PCs, but that's quite rare).
  Oh, wait, the console peons still buy games in boxes? How quaint.
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
12. Re:Call me when... by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  * Allow upgrading of.....storage.
  Done
  https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/362/~/upgrade-the-hard-disk-drive-(hdd)
  
  And most of all, allow keyboard and mouse.
  They do! There's no "allow" about it. It's up to the developer/publisher to decide to whether to use it or not. It's common for text entry, on the PS3 any game that uses the PS3's standard text entry widget automatically supports keyboard. If you want to use them for controls...well that's different, besides, analog movement is better than WASD.
  Some of the Eve gamers who are trying out Dust514 are finding out what I learned years back with the PS2, that hybrid controls, analog stick for movement and mouse for aiming, work well and give you the advantages of both control methods.
  
  But the point is that 'the buyer' has choices and features on the PC.
  For a lot of people, the price premium matters and the lack of supposed "choice" doesn't bother them too much.
13. Re:Call me when... by Pseudonym · 2013-08-03 00:06 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, wait, the console peons still buy games in boxes?
  Yes! Older games and second-hand games are almost always cheaper than the equivalent download-on-PC price.
  Well, they are in Australia thanks to the 30-50% "because we can" markup.
  
  --
  sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
14. Re:Call me when... by lgw · 2013-08-04 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  That actually makes some sense. Is GoG the same way? Steam sales are still priced by the original studio, but GoG competes directly with used box sales.
  
  --
  Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The problem is.. by AdmV0rl0n · 2013-08-02 02:43 · Score: 1

That its nice to see this. But Carmack isn't what he was. Nor is quakecon really. Recent ID stuff has'nt shone and the input isn't as valuable as it once was. I kinda have the feeling that ID and Carmack have settled. New upstarts don't have that hunger sated and this is the issue really I have with Carmack - nice guy that he is..

--
We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.
1. Re:The problem is.. by iMadeGhostzilla · 2013-08-02 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  I disagree they have settled. Rage may not have been that well received, but ID have an expertise and interest in certain aspects of gameplay and they are pushing it with their new work. IMO anyone working to go deeper in the area they are best at isn't settling.
2. Re:The problem is.. by 0ld_d0g · 2013-08-02 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  id Games are not designed by john carmack. The success of modern games is determined by a combination of visual/audio art, game design, and rendering/physics/AI tech. Carmack works on behind the scenes tech stuff (hes not even an expert on AI or physics) that people don't "see" when they play games. Carmack is a technical person giving an informed technical opinion on technical things. The fact that you don't like id games is irrelevant to what he has to say.
Tong by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2013-08-02 02:45 · Score: 1

Can I plug in a keyboard and a mouse?
Playing these kinds of games with a console controller is like assembling a ship in a bottle with long, clumsy tongs. Without the feeling of pride, just irritation.

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
1. Re:Tong by jeffmflanagan · 2013-08-02 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  >Playing these kinds of games with a console controller is like assembling a ship in a bottle with long, clumsy tongs. Without the feeling of pride, just irritation. Not really. The playstyle is just different, and some people have trouble adapting. Keyboard and mouse sucks from the couch, and less and less people game at a computer desk. I'll take a 360 controller with the dual analog sticks over a keyboard and mouse for PC gaming in my home theater.
2. Re:Tong by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:08 · Score: 0
  
  Can I plug in a keyboard and a mouse?
  Playing these kinds of games with a console controller is like assembling a ship in a bottle with long, clumsy tongs. Without the feeling of pride, just irritation.
  Or like masturbating with a cheese grater: slightly amusing, but mostly painful.
3. Re:Tong by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 05:52 · Score: 0
  
  Never played counter strike right? I like killing hordes of aliens with a happy trigger while laying on a couch covered with potato chips crumbles as much as any guy, but certain shooters require dexterity that is just not possible to develop with just your thumb as opposed to your wrist, fingers and arm. Is not about adaptability is about not having enough joints and thus not the same degree of motor skill. Most good PC players are also good console shooting players but is not as fun or challenging.
4. Re:Tong by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  Counter STrike GO on the PS3 DOES support mouse and keyboard....but as I learned years ago, hybrid is better. You want the analog stick for comfortable movement, and the mouse for aiming.
  It also depends on the shooter. I don't think games that are obviously trying to aspire to realism, at least in their names, should aspire to "bang, easy pointing quake style headshot".
  Getting a headshot should be HARD, not something that happens every 5 seconds. Most shots, unless made through a sniper scope on a sniper rifle from a prone sniper, with a tripod, should be center-of-mass.
Handheld Gaming Market by zifn4b · 2013-08-02 03:26 · Score: 1

I disagree with Carmack's assessment that the handheld gaming market is being consumed by mobile devices. The games available for tablets and phones are VERY inferior compared to handheld gaming devices. There have only been a few worthwhile games for the iPad that I've found such as Tales from Monkey Island, Kingdom Rush and Machinarium are all great games but there are so few good titles to choose from. There are tons of great titles to choose from on 3DS and PS Vita though.
The mobile market is still primarily about casual games like Words with Friends. For games with more depth, you'll be hard-pressed to find that with the exception of a few gems like the ones I mentioned above.

--
We'll make great pets
1. Re:Handheld Gaming Market by UnknowingFool · 2013-08-02 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  Carmack wasn't commenting about what he wants or whether it is a good thing. The fact of the matter is that fewer people seem to be carrying a game console and a smart phone. At the same time, consumers are buying more games. The quality and type of games for touch phones are different than for a game console. There are not the games you want to play but for most consumers they are.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
2. Re:Handheld Gaming Market by AvitarX · 2013-08-02 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  Baldur's Gate, Xcom, this is the direction things are moving.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
3. Re:Handheld Gaming Market by theArtificial · 2013-08-02 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  I disagree with Carmack's assessment that the handheld gaming market is being consumed by mobile devices. The games available for tablets and phones are VERY inferior compared to handheld gaming devices.
  Absolutely they're inferior, but the reason why the segment exists (and is rapidly growing) is because "everybody" has one. Convenience: no need to buy another device; and affordability: people are willing to wager a few dollars on entertainment.
  
  There have only been a few worthwhile games for the iPad that I've found such as Tales from Monkey Island, Kingdom Rush and Machinarium are all great games but there are so few good titles to choose from.
  While I'm not an avid mobile gamer I do keep an eye out. Square is releasing titles, too.
  
  The mobile market is still primarily about casual games like Words with Friends.
  Bingo!
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
4. Re:Handheld Gaming Market by Tough+Love · 2013-08-03 18:27 · Score: 1
  
  I must say, Google has a got a big fail going in the no actual fullscreen gaming department.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Rage was a horrible game by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:28 · Score: 0

Carmack is a has-been at this point.
1. Re:Rage was a horrible game by 0ld_d0g · 2013-08-02 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  Carmack did not design it. He did not create art for it. He did not design the gameplay. He wrote the tech-scaffolding that the others in the company created the game around. Atleast try to know something before you go around spewing random comments.
I find it telling that johnc... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 03:39 · Score: 0

...doesn't post on Slashdot anymore. Site's dead.
Two consoles? by ArcadeMan · 2013-08-02 03:43 · Score: 1

John said he hasn't run quite enough tests on the hardware for the two consoles
So what, the Wii U doesn't exists?

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
1. Re:Two consoles? by spire3661 · 2013-08-02 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  IN the context of 'next-gen' no Wii U does not exist.
  
  --
  Good-bye
relevant? by argStyopa · 2013-08-02 04:11 · Score: 1, Insightful

John Carmack was a brilliant hardware/software dude in the 1990s and 2000s.
I'm having trouble being certain of his relevance today.
His company produced one of the greatest, genre-introducing games ever ...but what has he done lately?
Cdr Keen - absolutely brilliant
Wolfenstein 3d - 1992 - breakthrough game
Doom 1993? - novel, a big evolutionary step forward.
Quake 1996 - another huge advance in rendering, net coding
Doom 2/Quake 2 were not substantial steps forward. D2 was meh; Q2 I believe did have a rather revolutionarily-open design welcoming modding.
Doom3 - essentially D(1), but on 10 year newer hardware. Gameplay was indistinquishable from D1.
Rage - a flop, from the use of gigantic outdoor textures (whose render-farm requirements pretty much excluded their massive modding fanbase) to a console-focused development, and gameplay that was utterly a repeat of previous iD titles (and other games in the market like Fallout, etc)
More triangles in the scene (and curves, and textures, and lens flare, and 15 different flavors of "pitch black") is more a direct credit to Nvidia/AMD than to Mr Carmack, and I don't see that anything since Quake 2 (arguably, Quake 1) is really a monumental advance forward.
1996-2013...17 years is a helluva dry spell, and the fact he still gets attention speaks more to the reverence the community STILL holds for what he created than anything he seems to be creating.
Don't get me wrong, I still respect the guy, who doesn't? But he's massively rich and doesn't seem to be hungry anymore. He seemed to go off down a "handheld gaming" gopher-hole for a number of years...I guess I just wish he could pull another rabbit out of the hat and make me give a shit about an iD product again.

--
-Styopa
1. Re:relevant? by 0ld_d0g · 2013-08-02 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  I'm having trouble being certain of his relevance today.
  I'm having trouble seeing the relevance of your criticism since it has *nothing* at all to do with Carmack.
2. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:41 · Score: 0
  
  his VR / 3D headset? Building rockets?
3. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  "Doom3 - essentially D(1), but on 10 year newer hardware. Gameplay was indistinquishable from D1."
  I don't know what game you played but it was nothing like D1. Go back to playing your Halo.
4. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  Then you aren't paying any attention. I suggest some basic reading comprehension lessons.
5. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 06:21 · Score: 0
  
  You do know Carmack influenced nvidia and amd so that we have the current types of video cards now that are capable of all this cool stuff right?
6. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 06:58 · Score: 0
  
  Did you play the games you are commenting on, at the time when they were released and had the maximum impact?
  Some criticism of your criticism:
  Doom2 - Meh? It was a much enjoyable experience than Doom 1. Larger environments, better music, scary as hell and hit closer to home for its premises as "Hell on Earth"
  Doom3 - Gameplay indistinguishable from Doom1 - You got to be joking on this one, as the main criticism of this game was that it was nothing like the previous doom games. While previous games had dozens of monsters coming at you, due to graphical or other issues, D3 tried to have some cheap scares and only a few monsters at max at any time.
  Carmack is revered for creating an industry. He freely shared each and every of his innovations / discoveries allowing others to build on top of that. He pretty much wrote the book on 3d gaming.
  Wright brothers are remembered for their first flight, not on the incremental improvements they made.
7. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  Carmack has always been the engine guy, not the game designer. Engine stuff in Doom3, Rage is still very, very great. I doubt Id Tech 5/6 will let us down either.
8. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 07:37 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly... Darkness was an occasional surprise in D1, not a gimmick around which the whole game was designed like D3.
9. Re:relevant? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 08:08 · Score: 0
  
  Doom 3 and now the source code for Doom 3 have enabled The Dark Mod. That's good enough for me.
10. Re:relevant? by 0ld_d0g · 2013-08-02 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Um.. Carmack is a systems programmer. He does not design games. He does not create the visual art,effects,gameplay,physics,ai,shaders, audio or anything that people "see" in the game. His work is important but behind the scenes. Saying "but what has he done lately" and then listing some games is stupid because nobody has criticized those games on any technical systems programming basis. His success is in making sure the actual game development goes smoothly, not in actually designing the game.
11. Re:relevant? by theArtificial · 2013-08-02 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  You're missing something in between Doom and Rage, ET: Quake Wars. Megatexture tech didn't debut with RAGE, but with Quake Wars.
  
  More triangles in the scene (and curves, and textures, and lens flare, and 15 different flavors of "pitch black") is more a direct credit to Nvidia/AMD than to Mr Carmack, and I don't see that anything since Quake 2 (arguably, Quake 1) is really a monumental advance forward.
  Quake 2, really? You're leaving out Quakeworld! The graphics argument isn't unique to id and isn't new. It's been going on since gaming began. Here is a vintage example for Zelda hailing from the 80s, whoa, check out those graphics! Minecraft is an example where gameplay outshines graphics, and there is a demand for innovative games - not just shine. There are more tools available today than ever before, not to mention the direction web is headed with real time technologies and compilation options to JS (ewww and cool at the same time). Perhaps another reason for the lack of excitement and "more of the same" is that the monumental performance gains from the past aren't nearly as massive today.
  
  But he's massively rich and doesn't seem to be hungry anymore.
  One only has so much time; at least he's doing something he enjoys. I think part of the issue was he was wearing too many hats prior to Bethesda. Time spent managing a company/herding cards is not time spent coding.
  
  He seemed to go off down a "handheld gaming" gopher-hole for a number of years...I guess I just wish he could pull another rabbit out of the hat and make me give a shit about an iD product again.
  Many developers are in the mobile space, it's in like the swoosh was on logos in the aughts, and FYI Unreal also runs on mobile. While not exactly an ID title, have you seen/heard of Prey 2? I'm excited for it.
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
12. Re:relevant? by CronoCloud · 2013-08-02 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  Doom2 - Meh?
  
  Doom 2 wasn't really a new game... it was Doom with a new IWAD.
13. Re:relevant? by Waccoon · 2013-08-03 19:07 · Score: 0
  
  I think a better way of looking at it is how many other people licensed the engines Carmack has created. As in, very few, because the engines weren't very useful. Meanwhile, look at where Unreal Engine and Unity3D have gone.
  To say nothing about design, the reality was that the D3 engine did some clever new stuff, but it ran horribly slow and looked just plain ugly. It's very obvious that it wasn't a very efficient engine, and thus wasn't well-suited for games. Rage was the same. Ambitious and interesting, but not very practical.
14. Re:relevant? by hobarrera · 2013-08-07 02:15 · Score: 1
  
  Quake 3 is quite unique, and still popular.
  Quake Live is, technologically, quite innovative too (a browser plugin that internally uses XMPP for online FPS?). I'm not sure why the idea never took off.
Links to Actual Videos by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:37 · Score: 0

Gamedev.Com posted a playlist of all the videos on its youtube account here: https://www.youtube.com/user/gamedevofficial
Closed everything by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-02 04:42 · Score: 0

It's not the hardware that keeps me off consoles.
Only a console fanboy would state this by SmallFurryCreature · 2013-08-02 06:20 · Score: 1

Because to a PC gamer something is VERY obviously different. The specs all the console fanboys are drooling over is for hardware YET to be released. Right now, gaming PC's already surpass those specs. PC specs will continue to evolve, the console specs will be fixed for another half a decade at least if not longer.
Remember, during the hype up of EVERY console launch, people have drooled at trailers and demo's (running often on PC's) and then the games finally launch and it turns out that when you are powering a real game, you can't dedicate all your resources to rendering an amazing demo scene.
I am reminded of commentary by the FEAR developers about how they had to choose for each room how many lights vs AI they wanted. They couldn't have a large number of both. If they wanted to create a big fight in a room with dynamic lights, they couldn't. On a PC, modders often add this, countless projects make games like Fallout and Skyrim harder and more fun by upping the number of enemies (rather then just adding hit points) figuring that gamers who want this have PC's that handle it. On a console you won't see it.
About the only upgrade you can do on a console is to replace the slow as hell HD with an SSD. But PC gamers are already on raid setups. I am only reminded things like loading screens exist when I turn on a console.
My current PC outpaces consoles not yet released. Over the coming years it will rapidly leave console hardware behind until a cheapass dell can run rings out the consoles of this generation.
About the only upside I can see is that now that consoles FINALLY get at least some decent memory (my PC hard 32gb simply because it doesn't cost anything anymore) developers will FINALLY be shifting to 64 bit code and you no longer need to patch PC games to be large address aware.
This generation MIGHT however be rather short IF 4K tv takes off. No way the current hardware can handle that at acceptable frame raters/detail levels. Since 4k tv's are going to launch for less then 1000 before the next generation consoles, it might be intresting to see what is going to happen.
Meanwhile, the modding scene will continue to exclusively cater for the PC crowd and turn average games into brilliant ones for free. And games like "The Last of Us" will sell purely on story because as a shooter it sucks DONKEY BALLS. Do you know what will TRULY revolutionize gaming and making porting trivial?
Allow keyboard/mouse as a standard option on console games. Mind you, Naughty Dog might actually have to create an AI (wait in the first outdoor area with the patrolling soldiers and they will all stop with their back to you, and not respond while you kill them a few meters from each other. But hey, console gamers probably find that a challenge.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
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