Slashdot Mirror
US, Germany To Enter No-Spying Agreement
itwbennett writes "The German Federal Intelligence Service said in a news release that the U.S. has verbally committed to enter into a no-spying agreement with Germany. The no-spying agreement talks were announced as part of a progress report on an eight-point program proposed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel in July with measures to better protect the privacy of German citizens. In the progress report, the German government found that U.S. intelligence services comply with German law. Also, the operators of large German Internet exchanges and the federal government did not find any evidence that the U.S. spies on Germans, the government said."
and no one will ever cheat.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Can I get a no-spying agreement with the U.S. government?
It's not like the US intelligence groups ever go beyond what laws allow, nor do they ever lie about such things...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Amerika, wir vertrauen euch.
Yeah, right
How can I talk my country's leaders into negotiating such an agreement? Does anyone know who I can send a letter to? I live in the United States of America, sure such a bastion of freedom wouldn't allow spying on its citizens...
According to Wikipedia: "Espionage or spying involves a government or individual obtaining information considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information. Espionage is inherently clandestine, as it is taken for granted that it is unwelcome and, in many cases illegal and punishable by law." I think the operative word here is clandestine...
If at first you don't succeed, so much for skydiving.
...the paper it's printed on.
Sure, can America not spy on Americans too?
That sure would be nice.
I remember when you did not need a special, explicit agreement to refrain from spying on your own allies. Kids these days just have no manners at all.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
The UK will spy on Germany for you!
Did that agreement have a little smiley face on it near the end? Does anyone really expect the USA to be honest about their activities? This is more likely a coordinated display to show the US feels bad about being caught red-handed and now they can be trusted by the worldz again.
The UK will be next I'm sure... I don't know the lapdog priority in Europe though :P
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
I would like to enter into a no-spy agreement with the US government on behalf of the US population.
Where do I sign?
I read this as a "spying exchange agreement". The US promises not to spy on Germans, and the Germans agree not to spy on Americans.
Instead, if the NSA wants spy data on German citizens, they'll metaphorically "extradite" data that the German government has collected on its citizens (and vice versa).
That would be my guess, anyway.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Here's how I think this agreement will turn out.
1) If violated the president agree's to have his feet tickled profusely.
2) To avoid being caught the US allows UK to spy on Germany using our equipment which they hand over the info to us.
3) US asks the UK not to Spy on the US for this benefit
4) US asks Germany to Spy on UK for the US for our agreement not to spy on German
...and if you believe any of that please remove yourself from the gene pool.
That is all citizen.
The US will just contract out the spying to a third party (or country, ally). No harm no foul. Money talks.
- "We're not spying on anyone, we promise."
- "Here's proof you were spying."
- "Oops. Well, we won't spy on anyone anymore, we promise."
Enter into that same agreement with the US government?
a. we spy on them, they spy on us.
b. we have secrets, they have secrets.
c. everyone, fairness is anomonmity, the lack of information. Both sides being able to cheat and get away with it is quid pro quo.
d. a verbal agreement means nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
And all the hype on /. of this spying stuff and freedom, speech, etc... is by political agendas and just plain whining cause you don't want to get off your arse and either take action or participate in the system. That's why the current cultures will no "agree to disagree".
when is the U.S., U.S. spying agreement going to happen?
The US government said it wasn't spying on it's own citizens which turned out to be a lie. Now they say they're not going to spy on Germans (non-US citizens)??? Yeah right. Also interesting that it was a VERBAL commitment.
This is bad comedy. I don't know who's more gullible: Germany, or the U.S.
Look at how many cease fires, treaties and agreements we had with the indigenous population and I doubt we met the obligations of any of them.
Like the story in Hustler about Jerry Falwell and his mother, any treaties the US signs are really acts of parody.
I have no problem with the German government trying to spy on me. Why? Because the German government has no jurisdiction over me. German state security can't appear on my doorstep and arrest me, no matter how much Merkel or her minions may disapprove of me.
I do have a problem with the US government spying on me, because DHS and DEA can appear on my doorstep and make my life miserable if they don't like me or want to enrich themselves or find it useful for some other reason, circumventing the justice system and the rule of law.
Obama made restoring privacy and the rule of law a key point of his presidential bid, and it has turned out to be complete lies.
Nice one, soulskill. Headline told the whole story.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
We agree not to spy on each other. Pinky Promise!
Germany, as the economic engine to the EU, certainly has the money to do the same, and don't think they won't. This will last only as long as its not inconvienient to each respective parrty.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Message to Germany: Hello suckers!
Like, say: Germany informs the US government that being an NSA or CIA employee isn't a "get out of jail free" card, and that crimes committed in Germany will be prosecuted, without exceptions.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Any good Cloud Providers or EMail hosts in Germany? I'm moving my data overseas.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Secure it by using force, deception and cryptography.
We won't spy on you Germany... You can trust us... Yeah that's the ticket. From the government that lies to its own citizens and Congress with no consequences.
Please get a real journalist on this, not some blogger. A tiny bit of research will tell you a few interesting things that put things into perspective.
For example, we have an election upcoming, so obviously the government has to appear to be doing something about it, because the people don't like it. My bets are firmly on this dragging out until the election (of course, with constant reminders and "progress" reports) and afterwards, it'll quickly be forgotten.
For example, there are still laws in place from the end of WW2 and the times of the foundation of the Federal Republic of Germany that guarantee the allies spying rights. One of those agreements has just been revoked, to great PR effect. Almost all the mainstream media ignored that other agreements to the same effect still stand.
For example, the german equivalent, the BND, has been accused of working closely with the NSA, to the point of providing them with raw data. And our current prime minister would sell the whole country to her american friends if it gave her a benefit (a friendly hug would probably suffice). So one likely result is that they will agree the US stops spying, then the NSA lents its spy stations to the BND, who shares the data with the NSA, so everything remains the same, but technically, the NSA isn't spying within Germany anymore.
If you think the government or the current breed of corrupt egomanics that have taken over politics is there to protect you, you've been living under a rock the past twenty years.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"I see nussink! I vuss not hier! I dit not efen get ahp diss morning!"
Meanwhile both governments continue to spy on their citizens.
It is election campaigning time in Germany: 'A German federal election will be held on 22 September 2013 to determine the 598 (or more, if overhangs are produced) members of the 18th Bundestag, the main federal legislative house of Germany.' (wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2013)
These talks about a no-spying agreement is to calm down the population and to try to keep Germans happy about reelecting the incumbents or former incumbents of the major, established parties. The NSA spying scandal could benefit new-comer parties like the Pirate Party.
Hilarious enough, the biggest NSA base in Europe is in Germany.
The US will just contract out the spying to a third party (or country, ally). No harm no foul. Money talks.
Yes, the US will contract out it's Euro spying to Germany.
Meanwhile Germany will contract out it's America spying to the US.
Job done.
After WW2, the Allies kept many of the sheeple controlling laws introduced by the Nazi regime. Today, Germany produces and gifts submarines to the obscene racist nation of Israel specifically designed to carry nuclear warheads targeted at every major Muslim population centre across our planet. Meanwhile, German puppet leaders call for the destruction of Iran for daring to pursue limited nuclear energy programs. Germany has simply changed its mind about who constitute the 'Master Race', and who constitute the 'Sub-Humans' that must be kept down at all costs. If Germany was evil during WW2 (and it was), Germany is just as evil today for following the same disgusting policies based on the pseudo-science of 'race'.
The German people are sheeple to be controlled, brainwashed, and placated. Of course the German people suffer massive full surveillance spy programs- what would any of you expect given the history of Germany, and the involvement of the West and Soviets in their recent history? But the German people themselves constantly tell each other that they are both harmless and civilised, and don't need heavy handed control (hohoho). They seem oblivious to the heavy handed programs that have been ruthlessly controlling their society since WW2.
In truth, no-one cares about what German people think. In Europe, they were ruthless trained, post WW2, to act as disposable shock troops for any future war between Soviet Russia and the West. The entirety of Germany was to be snuffed out during the first phase of that anticipated conflict. But no-one trusts the German people either, so every power is hyper-keen to keep the people of Germany under the most intense scrutiny, and to maintain the dreadful propaganda programs every German experiences at school.
Now the German people will have their heads patted, like a dangerous psychopath in a lunatic asylum, and be told "of course we are stopping all that nasty surveillance- why on Earth would we do that to someone as harmless as you?"
Can the American People get one too? We don't want to be spied on either!
oh, you were serious *laughs even harder*
As long as it creates jobs, Merkel will jump on it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Wait, Germany gets a 'no spying agreement' from the prez while he won't even make the same for US citizens? (cool, my captcha was patriot)
Spy on everyone else agreement.
And the US will violate the No Spying agreement the millisecond it is signed.
The US Governmet CANNOT be trusted.
I've never seen such a huge pile of shit!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
We're not spying - we're only collecting "meta-data"
"Also, the operators of large German Internet exchanges and the federal government did not find any evidence that the U.S. spies on Germans, the government said." ...which was viewed as a successful test of the US's surveillance systems in Germany, according to the NSA.
-Styopa
Promise. *wink* *wink* ;)
This will be the axis around which the world... um... hey, can I get back to you on this?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
This is a JOKE, right? No evidence? The whole solar system knows that NSA spies on everyone, but the German's government did not find any evidence??? WTF? Are they morons?
Obama is full of BS like too many of his predecessors . Except he's loved for it by stupid Americans.
Movies depict interpol as an actual police force. Interpol is just intelligence; international police cooperation. They have no jurisdiction in the US, nor do they have any actual manpower to arrest anyone in any country. Besides, the US gov does not bend to other governments. It is other governments that bend to the US.
wake me when there is a "US, Its Citizens To Enter No-Spying Agreement" story
be new here
Am I the only one?
I read the headline and translated it on the fly to "US, Germany to Enter Full Disclosure Information Sharing Agreement".
Please let me be wrong.
I think they might be up to some spying.
Except that they will first create a committee to make it an European effort. After something is achieved, they will create a second committee that will replicate some of the effort by a national body, since the European body gets nothing done. Lots of discussing later not much is achieved at all.
But honestly I like the German/European wasting time and money better than the US, at least not all of the money was given to a large shady corporation.
You made a pinky promise!!!
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
...if NSA did not spy?
The NSA told that they did not spy on germans. So for what is this No-Spying Agreement? The government spokesman Steffen Seibert got a bit nervous when being asked this and could not answer.
if the NSA did not spy?
The NSA told they did not spy on Germany. Being asked why a No-Spying agreement is necessary if the NSA did not spy on Germany the government spokesman Steffen Seibert just got nervous and completely failed to answer (link to german main TV news site).
"Also, the operators of large German Internet exchanges and the federal government did not find any evidence that the U.S. spies on Germans, the government said."
...that's only because we used the good spies. ( :
~Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
This is how I like it. Usually it's only a positive thing the lawmakers get cobwebbed in bureucracy and committees and subcommittees of planning committees.
Germany may be the largest economy in the EU, but by far not the majority (20%). The largest economies are Germany (3,4M), France (2,6M), UK (2,4M), Italy (2,0M) and Spain (1,4M GDP per capita). It's an unfair simplification to say there is one economic engine of the EU.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
So Miss Merkel is at least a verbal agreement worth to the US over the German opposition. Given that Mr. Schröder didn't go to Iraq to not piss off the French and the Russians and stay on the moral high ground, I can see that this makes sense to the US. But they could have tried harder, maybe the US has no plans for near term interventions in the middle east, they would need our help for.
It's Americanocity rating is 40%, but so is it's Deutschitude! Can we still tap it without even a shred of reasonable suspicion?
"Well, is either of them 51% or higher?"
You always were the smart one, sir!
just define "spying" properly and then there will be no boundary in this boundary.
As you US are good in defining "torture" we Germans are good in defining "control".
...'cause people that violate the law will be *sure* to follow a simple agreement...
The largest economies are Germany (3,4M), France (2,6M), UK (2,4M), Italy (2,0M) and Spain (1,4M GDP per capita).
Crap. Or some dodgy units being used there. The average spaniard produces 1.4 million GDP each? Or if we assume that the 'per capita' is in error then the entire population produces 1.4 million between them? That can't be true in dollars or in Euros so 1.4 million what's per capita? Or does the M stand for something other than millions?
...but they'll spy on us.
So will the US promise that if it is a greater than 51% likelihood that the traffic is from Germany they won't monitor it?
And I now foresee every terrorist in the world flocking to Germany....
This is like when Russia and US make an agreement to reduce nuclear weapons in their respective arsenals - It just means they hide them underground further and double check for any spies who might be watching.
I also find it ironic that the captcha says "accuracy".
Germany isn't going to fall for this - at least not our government. This useless piece of paper is just part of the agenda of the Merkel-government which consists of lies and denials. Just as in the US, and Merkel basically is like Obama: Hasn't heard of anything then lying then doing some useless shit. The german Constitution forces the government to protect the constututional rights of the german citizens, i.e. privacy - and our government refuses to do so. Of course one knows why, the federal intelligence service (BND) works closely with the US since after the war, including illegal spying (echelon project etc.) and is breaking german federal law, so nobody in our traitorious government has any interest in revealing the truth. Given this background, such a treaty makes perfect sense. ;)
Merkel, her aministration and our intelligence are in total traitors to their people in favor of the US. Thanks...
Still, everybody likes Merkel for no one knows what... but the lack of alternatives? Don't thinks, americans, that few choices only result of a two-party-system. We in Germany have five, and one is worse than the other...
even if i fear its inevitable a certain kind of lol cant stop itself from bubbling up
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?