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NHTSA Gives the Model S Best Safety Rating of Any Car In History
cartechboy writes "Even crashing into a wall is good news nowadays for Tesla Motors. Independent testing by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has awarded the company a 5-star safety rating, not just overall, but in every subcategory. While its five-star score across the board has been attained by other vehicles (around one percent of all cars tested are capable of such a score) its ratings in individual categories are higher than any other vehicle, including larger SUVs and minivans. What's really interesting is that part of the safety rating may be because the car is electric."
Five star safety rating across the board. Excellent! Now if only it didn't come with a five star price tag
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Or you could read the article and see that in the areas considered for the tests, many of the common safety tests wouldn't even work, they couldn't roll the car over with standard techniques, they couldn't crush the passenger compartment with a standard crusher, and they had a HUGE crumple zone.
Kind of how the Mercedes S class, BMW 7 series, Audio A7/A8, and any other large luxury car is a plaything for the wealthy?
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the score is undeserved?
In this case being electric helped with not having to turn off the ignition to prevent fire, have more flexibility in the positioning of elements so that more protection is added for the passenger and having so low a center of mass that they had to design a special test in order to make the car rollover since it would not do it in the normal one. Also, using spaceworthy components helped, I guess...
However, at a price point of $80 - 100K, it's going to remain a playtoy for people with money, not become the OMG super-car replacement for mom's $30K Volvo.
True, but it is the norm for the expensive, novel safety features of today's luxury cars to become standard on econoboxes a few years down the road. Airbags (front, then side), antilock brakes, traction control, etc. have all migrated down the market. You can bet that - particularly among carmakers whose reputations rely on safety as a marketing tool, like Volvo - there will be engineers very closely scrutinizing this car for design features that can be adapted or stolen.
More important, some of the safety benefits are pretty much inherent to the electric design. Not needing to allow for a big, solid metal engine block means that the front crumple zone can be engineered more effectively. Having heavy battery packs under the floor of the vehicle makes rollovers much more difficult. These types of benefits will be accessible to any electric design, not just the $80,000 ones.
~Idarubicin
Or you could read the article and see that in the areas considered for the tests, many of the common safety tests wouldn't even work, they couldn't roll the car over with standard techniques, they couldn't crush the passenger compartment with a standard crusher, and they had a HUGE crumple zone.
Also, for the roof crush test the crushing machine broke before the roof did.
The Tesla Model S is an extremely well-engineered machine. It's expensive, yes, but in most respects it's simply superior to equivalently-priced luxury cars. I'm really looking forward to their next generation, which is intended to be priced more mid-market (probably in the 30s).
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Just find some old Pintos and have every bad guy drive those.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Gasoline engines are well noted for their ability to work underwater.
When you roll the thing over, you want it to be rigid so that it doesn't bend to intersect with your empty skull.
In some parts of the U.S., $100K a year barely covers rent and utilities on a decent apartment.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
The Model S is a really heavy car, actually, almost the weight of the Ford F-150. Only a Hummer or another such extremely rare car weights significantly more. I think that speaks more for how dangerous Hummers are on the roads than how "unsafe" the Model S is. Regardless, though, the Model S is safer than any other car in its category, which is the metric that actually matters. If you're shopping for a sedan, you don't give a shit if a semi is going to give you better survival rates in a collision.
Also, don't expect safety in any vehicle above 60mph. Drive safely instead of relying on technical means to buffer a crash.
I am taking that as sarcasm. However it is tough to tell with these posts, you could just be wrong.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Not artificially high? How come North American cars don't have amber turn signals then?
They are amber, you just can't tell because nobody uses them. They just give you a gentle nudge to tell you they are changing lanes.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
In a head-on collision with another vehicle, yes weight makes a big difference. However you seem to think that headons are the only type of accidents that exist. into. But actually true headons are quite rare and make up a small percentage of accidents. (which is why NHTSA started testing offset headons and side impacts and so on because they're much more common).
Anyways there are accidents where weight hurts you rather than help you. Would you rather crash into the side of a mountain at 60mph in a M-1 Abrams tank, Humvee, or a Tesla S? How about a rollover?
I make a bit over $100K and live in Silicon Valley yet I had no problem affording this car, in part due to careful money management and paying off my house early and not living beyond my means. I have met a number of other owners, and not all of them are super wealthy. One of my coworkers bought one as well. For years I poured every extra cent into paying down my mortgage since it started at over 7%. Of course it also helps that I bought before the dot com boom. I financed a majority of the car, but less than many people in order to keep investing my money.
By financing I took some of the money that I didn't spend on the loan and bought some Tesla stock when it was at $35. It's the best investment I've made. I just wish I bought more stock when I did.
I met many people at the Teslive convention a month ago. Many of the Tesla owners are not what I would consider super wealthy. Many are retired. In fact, a breakdown of what people drove before the Model S was rather interesting. Many did not drive luxury cars. My previous car was a 2006 Prius which is sitting in my driveway and hasn't been driven in two months. I'll probably sell it.
Yes, the Tesla is an expensive car. In my case, it's my midlife crisis car.
Tesla has repeatedly said that they plan to come out with a car in the $30-40K range. Their biggest problem is batteries. During the last earnings report they stated that there is simply no way to get the volume of batteries they need. They need to ramp up the production facilities and their suppliers before they can hope to meet the demand. In order to meet the demand for the lower priced car they would need to manufacture more 18650 lithium batteries than are made for all laptops combined. While there is no shortage of lithium, they need to build up production.
As it is, right now Tesla is limited in the number of cars they can sell by their suppliers. They're supply limited, not demand limited.
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I would be wary of the NHTSA front crash test ratings for the Tesla. The NHTSA front crash test is a full frontal crash into a wall at 35, while the IIHS does a more real world scenario of 25% and 40% of the bumper hitting a wall at 40mph. Without a large motor in the way Tesla is able to use the whole front compartment as a crumple zone as opposed to most combustion vehicles that primary use the sides as a crumple zone. While I don't think the ratings were manipulated they are artificially high because the Tesla design is able to game the system. Unfortunately the IIHS crash test ratings have not been released yet but I can't imagine them doing as well, in the 40% test the Tesla will have lost 60% of it crumple zone while typical combustion engines will lost a little over 50%, in the 25% test Tesla will lose 75% and the combustion engine is still at a little over 50%.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
What I'm afraid is that there will no longer be explosions when a car barely collides in movies [U+2e2e]
[Unless it is a documentary about 'accidents' like Michael Hastings'...]
Don't worry, movie producers will rig the cars with Tesla Coils and there will be an impressive array of electrical discharge arcs emanating from the car, incinerating everything in the vicinity.
You say that as if the engine fan would keep working, spark plugs can keep firing, the engine doesn't flood(through, say, the tailpipe, or oil system), or a ton of other basic risks. All an electric motor needs to keep working is insulation to prevent shorts. Which it SHOULD have anyways.
I'm no car safety engineer, but I suspect that's nonsense. If I understand modern car cabin safety engineering correctly, the whole point is to make the cabin itself very rigid, but it is surrounded by energy-absorbing crumple zones outside of it to absorb impacts. That's accomplished by having the front, end, and sides of the cars deformable. By contrast it's not exactly normal for roofs (or for that matter, the bottom of a car) to be subjected to head-on collisions. Typically roofs need to support the weight of a car if it flips over, and in that case roof deformation is *not* desirable because any reduction in the size of the cabin would lead to compression of the passengers.
Because US regulations don't require them while other markets do. The Europeans and Japanese just don't bother to make market-specific taillights, they just follow the Euro regs which also meet US regs.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Without a large motor in the way Tesla is able to use the whole front compartment as a crumple zone as opposed to most combustion vehicles that primary use the sides as a crumple zone. While I don't think the ratings were manipulated they are artificially high because the Tesla design is able to game the system.
Explain to me exactly how having an enormous crumple zone in front of the driver is somehow a bad thing. Would you rather have an engine pushed into your lap from a frontal collision? Their is no evidence I've seen that their ratings are "artificially high". The results are what they are.
Weight has nothing to do with it. Realize that a hard ridged vehicle, if not designed properly, would transfer all the energy to the passenger which would kill you due to internal injuries. Even a light car with the proper design of crumple zones can be safer than a large heavy vehicle.
Don't start quoting physics when you clearly don't understand how car frame design works.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Um, who cares....it's not gaming the system if it in FACT keeps the passengers safer.
If the color of turn signals is the main plank of your safety argument, you've failed.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
During one of the presidential debates, Mitt Romney named Tesla a failure, and claimed that the loan given to Tesla by the DOE was a waste of taxpayer money. This drove the stock down to $25 per share. I wish I'd bought then, because that stock is now around $140 per share, and climbing.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
im not sure i would call taking advantage of engine placement choice "gaming the system". that makes it sound like cheating, which it isnt. its simply smart engineering.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
While I don't think the ratings were manipulated they are artificially high because the Tesla design is able to game the system.
Designing the car with safety in mind is not "gaming the system". The ratings are not "artificially high", they are "actually high". Obviously safety was a major design concern for Tesla, and this is the result. There is nothing artificial nor "cheating" about it. They specifically designed the car with a huge front crumple zone.
Saying that Tesla's ratings are artificially high is about the same as saying a combustion engine car has artificially low ratings because of a huge engine block in the front that does not crumple. The ratings are not artificial, they are what they are because of how the car is designed.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
also your numbers seem somewhat made up.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Gasoline engines do not work when submerged. They require high voltage electrical sparks to ignite the fuel. Being submerged robs them of the spark they need to run. You would have to do special waterproofing of all of the engine's electrical works before it can run submerged.
Diesel engines, on the other hand, do not use spark plugs or electrical components (other than for starting the motor), so all you need is a snorkel. Those Humvees and Land-Rovers you see crossing rivers and streams with the snorkels all have diesel engines.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Why?
Most of these scores are not based on just the cost. But on the novel design approaches. Elon Musk is building Tesla's like space ships. Using more advanced design techniques. Most automobiles are 30 year old engineering. And you may pay $100,000 for a BMW. But it's really not that much more advanced in construction than a Chevy.
Tesla went and said, let's design from the ground up and use all ideas. And that's why they did things differently. The cheaper vehicles will likely be cheaper because of performance grade of the motors will be gone, less refinement and comforts, and namely, the R&D expenditure will be re-couped.
"And just how strong is the Model S roof, which is secured with aerospace-grade bolts? It broke a testing machine that was pushing down on the roof with the equivalent of the weight of four cars."
Four cars? Pshaw. Forty years ago my Volvo could bench press 6.
http://imgur.com/kmdoVYR
#1 & #2 include a lot of people. #3 includes nearly everyone else. :p
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Don't get me wrong, the numbers are quite impressive - especially the following passage from TFA:
However, at a price point of $80 - 100K, it's going to remain a playtoy for people with money, not become the OMG super-car replacement for mom's $30K Volvo.
$30k Volvo? Have you priced new cars in the last ten years? The cheapest bottom-of-the-line Volvo lists at $32k, and they skyrocket from there.
Inflation has been a bitch with most car lines. A roughly comparably priced Volvo (S80) with "normal" options is $50k, and is vastly less well equipped.
Numbers!
Tesls S: 4647
Base 4x2 F150:4685
base 4x4 F150 5000
The 5th Gen Camero weight about 3700
BWM 5 series 3700.
The ford focus 2960 pounds
Just for some idea of how much cars weigh.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Long ago, folks who lived in 'black' neighborhoods were redlined - it was pretty much impossible to buy a house in those areas because the banks wouldn't lend the money, even if you were a doctor or lawyer; and often the entire neighborhood was owned by a single landlord who wasn't selling anyway. It was commonly also impossible to buy a house outside the neighborhood because the realtors wouldn't show them to you, or would say "sorry, it's already sold", or (again) the banks wouldn't loan the money. (I observed a recent incident of this type in my own town, so it's not completely gone even today. Racist idiots are less common but still around.)
So it got to be a thing back in the 1950s or 1960s for blacks to buy big fancy cars, as that was the only big-ticket outlet for their desire to move up to a nicer lifestyle. So big fancy cars got to be a tradition back then. As a result it was relatively common to see a brand new Cadillac sitting outside a run-down slum apartment. (an interesting subtext - the Detroit automakers were pretty good at hiring minorities as well & brought many blacks into the middle class, so buying a Cadillac was helping 'brothers' out.) ... or so I'm told. Traditions die hard, and slowly. So for lots of folks today, having a nice car is more meaningful than having a nice house. And it's their choice, don't knock it - different strokes, so to speak.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Gasoline engines do not work when submerged. They require high voltage electrical sparks to ignite the fuel. Being submerged robs them of the spark they need to run. You would have to do special waterproofing of all of the engine's electrical works before it can run submerged.
Growing up as a 'river rat,' partying with crazed rednecks and their beater 4x4s on the river beds has imparted me with the knowledge that what you say here is decidedly not true. Theoretically, you're right, but practical observation defies that theory. Hell, the most I've ever seen anyone do as far as waterproofing was to RTV their distributor shut, and even that was considered overkill.
Diesel engines, on the other hand, do not use spark plugs or electrical components (other than for starting the motor), so all you need is a snorkel. Those Humvees and Land-Rovers you see crossing rivers and streams with the snorkels all have diesel engines.
Bullshit - I've seen far, far more 6-cylinder gasoline Jeeps successfully taking a swim than anything else, save maybe Chenowth dune buggies powered by 50-year-old VW engines.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
This is just like the recent XKCD. Percentages are meaningless without bases. The Tesla will have lost more of its crumple zone - of which it has A LOT MORE TOTAL by your own earlier statement.
As I mentioned, with anything short of what we would consider 'millionaire' class wealth, they could not buy or fix up the dwellings, nor could they move to a 'nice' neighborhood. The houses were not available. In some places there was a de facto inability to even record the deed for a house as yours if you were not 'white' - the lawyers wouldn't do the paperwork, the clerk would not enter it into the register. It was not a matter of money.
This can happen even if you're not a minority. Back in my early days I lived in the third floor of an old rundown house - the landlord refused to fix the leaky roof or bad plumbing, because if he did his property taxes would go up. He owned several houses in a row. He tore them all down to put in a new business office a few years later, he was just waiting for the right time and collecting free money in the meantime.
For some ideas about the roots of this social insanity, I suggest reading "Making Whiteness: The Culture of Segregation in the South, 1890-1940" (Grace Elizabeth Hale). The book is a bit controversial, but I felt the primary idea made sense. When the South lost the Civil War, this violated the heroic culture of honor that permeated the South's psyche. So in order to preserve some semblance of self-respect, a demon had to be found, which was the Negro (and what was really the beginnings of the Northern corporate state).
So the Southern view of blacks/negroes and of History changed after the war. For 60+ years the South was stuck in a kind of psychological fugue state, adopting a fantasy about the "Old South" where everything was perfect and everyone, blacks and whites, loved each other and their proper roles. Because at that time the South constituted about 1/2 of the Nation, the national political scene had to accommodate this Southern insanity. Part of this insanity involved a belief that blacks were less capable. It's instructive to discover that the lynchings and other violence was most often perpetrated on 'uppity blacks' who managed, despite the disadvantages, to develop a middle class income and lifestyle, because the appearance of a successful black person violated the sacred belief system and proved them wrong. Being wealthy was accepted in some places and not others - there are many cases of rich blacks being accepted in one town, but getting off the train in another town and being beaten and/or lynched. (It's worth noting that the railroads resisted segregated facilities for a long time, because it was more expensive.) The idea of the book is that these blacks were violating the most sacred Southern belief of all, which was that blacks could not succeed without whites to guide and help them. (This is my take on the book, which I read about six years ago, so if it's not a good reflection of the book, it's my fault.)
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
While the pictures may not show it, I saw a Model X in person at the Tesla factory. It is nearly the size of an Expedition so I think it will fill the role nicely as either since it can comfortably seat 7 adults with extra storage under the frunk.
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