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Florida Town Stores License Plate Camera Images For Ten Years
An anonymous reader writes "Yet another privacy concern story, this time from Florida. The Longboat Key police have their new license plate camera up and running, but according to the police chief, this one stores all images as 'evidence' for up to ten years. When questioned about the possibility for abuses of this camera's historical record, the chief said, 'There are regulations, policies and laws in place that prohibit that kind of abuse. And if abuse is discovered, it's punished.' What could possibly go wrong?"
The same thing that always goes wrong, somebody will abuse it because they can.
fuck.... this is getting to be way over kill....
"'There are regulations, policies and laws in place that prohibit that kind of abuse. And if abuse is discovered, it's punished."
It looks like you're new here. Welcome to Earth. Tell me more about your planet; what color is the sky there?
Here are a few starting points to learn a bit more about how The Blue Wall works when the department regulates its own behavior:
Wikipedia: Blue Code of Silence
Wikipedia: Frank Serpico
Wikipedia: Rampart Scandal
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
why collect evidence otherwise? nice world we live in.
Isn't this just assuming everyone is guilty until proven innocent?
Evidence that we live in a police-surveilence state. Evidence of a flagrant disregard for the people they purport to "protect". Evidence of thugs and bullies abusing their power.
Let's post thousands of comments on the Internet.
... and keep it forever and nothing you can do about it. I can post it on the internet and nothing you can do about it.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
...a picture is forever. Even if laws were enacted to delete them, backups of backups will preserve them for posterity.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
fsck, event 3 minutes is too long: it's long enough for some automated system to issue a speeding ticket and the abuse is done (letting aside the possiblity of having NSA prisming it forever... given the times we live in, one cannot rule this out).
I move to delete them as soon as the are captured... heck, why waste money to install these cameras in the first place? Aren't any other better means to ensure traffic safety?
(grin... I know, stupid... but less stupid than the code I am to write now)
That's appears to be longer than most Criminal Statute of Limitations in Florida, except for the most serious crimes.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Longer than the NSA does?
Yeah, I got it eventually from context, but I still had to read it a couple times.
What's a Florida "Town Store" and why are they licensing images of or taken by "Plate Cameras?"
I grew up about a 15 minute drive away from Longboat key. Incidentally, I ran a camera at some of their city council meetings back when I did live video work, and they were about the most boring things I've ever sat through in my life. I literally watched them debate what kind of sand they should use to replenish their beaches for two hours on one occasion. On another I saw an argument go on for the better part of three hours, in which a new guest dock was being built at a gated community and the resident whose yard it was adjacent to was very much concerned that boats parked at the dock would obscure his view of the gulf. In a truly political compromise, they finally agreed that the dock would be built, but boaters should only use one side of it.
The reason I remember these anecdotes is that they were by far the most exciting things I saw happen at any point in their city council meetings. Longboat key is a quiet community of mostly elderly, very wealthy retirees. Not only is it populated almost entirely by senior citizens, but the island is well enough isolated that there's essentially zero risk of almost anyone ever deliberately going there: the only reason I've ever been to it was for the aforementioned jobs and to drive through it to get to Sarasota. Basically, to anyone who's ever been near Longboat Key, the idea that they need any automated license plate scanning system, let alone one that retains records for a decade, is laughably absurd.
We have laws in place to make sure people don't do wrong things.... Why do we need police what could go wrong !
As someone who has visited Longboat Key, let me just say it's one of the nicest communities in Florida. Nestled into the coast just off Sarasota, LBK is a kind of retirement community of older folks. There are a lot of criminal types that prey on the island from Sarasota, because of the wealth and opulence, and relative seclusion the island provides. There are some gated communities but primarily there are coastal homes and hotels along the key, which make it a perfect place for a would-be criminal to strike.
I'm not condoning license plate records but at the same time, known criminals that head for the island who do not take residence there are an obvious benefit for that type of surveillance.
But that said, if someone was applying for a job there who happened to have served their time and changed their ways from a criminal past -- this would cause police harassment for no reason and push a criminal back towards a life of crime, perhaps.
LBK is a kind of gated community in and of itself, however it is a free country and any citizen should be allowed to travel anywhere and no sheriff should have the power to tell someone to get out of town, because that's un-American.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Over a period of 10 years driving around, I think it's possible to chock up enough coincidental adjacency to criminal activity that we could selectively pick a non-random set of photos of your vehicle license plate, and establish a circumstantial case against you being involved in criminal activity.
Get a sufficient amount of data on anyone, and you can paint them as a criminal by being selective about the data you choose to use in presenting your case.
For someone whose job is based on the premise that people will not always obey the law, that police chief seems a bit too trusting that laws will prevent abuse.
How quaint
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
If I live in a town where police are allowed to murder anyone who breaks the law on the spot if they know the people broke the law and I haven't done anything wrong, that affects my life how?
In which fairy tail land do you live where the government is entirely composed of perfect beings who never make mistakes and never abuse their powers? You certainly don't live on Earth, because history is absolutely filled with examples of government corruption.
There are regulations, policies and laws in place that prohibit that kind of abuse.
If regulations, policies and laws were actually enough to stop people, we wouldn't need to have either the camera's, the keeping of evidence or even the police.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Slightly off-topic, but it is about the police. This is video of an edited 17 minute film titled Sunday that takes place in Washington Park, Manhattan. The somewhat civil nature of the police and naivete of the people is shocking in contrast to today's actions. There's something for everyone: gum chewing beat cops, a couple of drama queens, mixed couples mugging on-lookers, people singing the national anthem and actually knowing the words.
The reason for all of this isn't for 'safety' or even revenue, but so those in power can have evidence to screw over who they don't like. Do you think the court is going to care if you are among the majority breaking some minor law? The argument that if the majority ignores a law does not seem to matter, which is pitiful, if one considers the only authority any government has is by the consent of the governed.
Take the highway speed limit in your area, which is almost certainly well below the average speed. They won't get you, usually, unless you exceed the average significantly. But it gives the police the power to pull over almost any vehicle going above the artificially low speed limit. And those that do follow the law will be 'suspicious' by 'failing to follow the prevailing speed'.
Using roadside cameras, they can target anyone. They can use these cameras to tell the average speed of the targeted vehicle, and they could write a ticket for that vehicle each day, remotely and possibly even automatically targeted. It's only a matter of time before automated toll devices (EZ-Pass) are used in this way, already in some areas using these devices gets a discount, so you pay extra either way.
Whether this town is doing this for 'safety', revenue, or some more nefarious reason, I can't tell from the story. The only thing we can do is stay the hell away and not spend our money there. I'm going to put my tinfoil hat back on now.
Next time a local politician is suspected of philandering, simply FOIA the records and show how he and his girlfriend met at some hotel. Such rules will get changed in a hurry.
I wonder just how often people take to the intersections with BB guns, paintball guns, or perhaps maybe even lighters and roofing shingles?
I have a feeling that the resistance will one day use tactics like this. But they'll probably just install new cameras...
Well I suppose they can always add another HD and extend the storage period.
The message is clear. Avoid Longboat Key Florida. Don't even do mail order or Internet business with Longboat Key Florida.
...have their new license plate camera up...
Until I read the article and noted that they had setup camera s ; as in plural. Makes a bit of a difference.
It is interesting how he answered the question, very carefully inserting a strategic, "if discovered" in the sentence. Looks like he is already abusing the system, or aware of people abusing it or could imagine people abusing it.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Most people probably do not know that the Keys are islands with one road in and one road out. Many of the keys have no other road on their island at all. So it is US1 or swim for it. That makes it super easy to get every single vehicle on cams and makes it known exactly when the vehicle enters and leaves the key. This can help to catch criminals but it can also help keep false convictions from taking place. Florida also has other places with high quality surveillance and the bad guys know it. We have had incidents where attacks by boats have been staged on homes of the wealthy.
Longboat Key is notorious. You can drive through but there's nowhere to stop. If you get there by boat and anchor, you'll be arrested. If you get to the beach, even below high tide line, which is federal land, you will be arrested. Always been that way.
KGB didn't store images for so long.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
I received a toll ticket from Florida, for a car that has never been to Florida.
The Florida Atty. General didn't seem concerned at all that this kind of mistake happened.
jr
Oh noes! The government is tracking what the license plate number is on my car! Forget the fact that it's a license number they issued to me in the first place, when I told them exactly what kind of car I drive....
This is beyond ridiculous.
There is absolutely no crime on the island (as in zero). It's a very, very, very wealthy strip of island in Sarasota, FL and there's no reason for this.
The police department there has more money than they know what to do with. I guess it shows.
The enemy of my enemy is quite possibly also my enemy. I've made a lot of enemies.
I am constantly surprised the technically sophisticated slashdot commenters seem to overwhelmingly respond from a perspective of paranoia. Besides the Florida license plate story, it comes up with all big data abuse scenarios. Why can't the technical community come up with some ideas on making the data available for legitimate societal good (missing kids, alibis for innocent people, apprehending real terrorists) and find controls that keep creepy police state abuse at bay. Police could be breaking down doors and taking citizens away on flimsy excuses, but for the most part this is not happening. We can create checks and balances on the access to big data. We just have to recognize that it is here to stay and we can't legislate it away.
NH, 2006, because that's we roll. Floridians should be ashamed of their Peeping Tom government.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I always like to use the real-world analogy of crumbs and cockroaches.
If you leave a bunch of crumbs laying around, it will attract cockroaches. That's why you sweep up the crumbs.
If you leave a bunch of private data laying around, it will attract people who have the ethics of a cockroach. That's why you get rid of the data.
It's simply a matter of hygiene. Just as physical hygiene promotes physical health, data hygiene likewise promotes ethical health.
This also explains why I get a "dirty" feeling when I use a browser that keeps cookies, history, passwords, etc. It offends my sense of hygiene, which triggers the same disgusting feeling as when I am physically dirty. In both cases, I know the dirt can attract malodorous parasites.
If traffic cameras are identifying information and considered sufficient to write tickets with, then by law, images not associated with a case must be deleted within 6 months. If traffic camera information is not considered identifying, then they shouldn't be allow to use it in court and they can keep it as long as they have the disk space.
While it is fine for you to not care and to willingly offer this information to the government, there are many of us law abiding citizens who value our privacy and do not feel that we should be subjected to constant surveillance. That you do not value your privacy does not mean that we should not value ours nor does it give you any right to decide the value of our privacy.
You choose to turn a blind eye to the numerous reported cases(who could possibly know how many go undiscovered or unreported?) of government and law enforcement abuses of the laws against private citizens. It is a proven fact that there will be abuses of a system that allows anyone with access the ability to stalk an individual and track their whereabouts for, in this case, the past ten years. Abuses will occur. Not might, will. I'm pretty sure you would start caring if you were the subject of such action, but it's never happened to you so you feel no risk and categorize everyone else that sees the risk as paranoid, delusional, or criminal. But, if a Longboat Key policeman took an interest in your daughter and started stalking her via this license plate database, I'll bet you'd start caring the. Sure, he could stalk her without the database, but why make it easy for him? Why provide him with the temptation when there is NO LEGITIMATE NEED.
There is NO legitimate reason for this system to maintain records of everyone that passes it for ten years. Images of innocent citizens going about their daily lives should be deleted as a matter of course within a few days or weeks and their privacy maintained. Keeping records of criminal activity is fine. But, your apathy should not impinge on the privacy of every other non-criminal citizen, let alone expose them to the very real threat of someone illegally using this record against them.
I'll bet you had no issue with New York's completely unconstitutional stop and frisk policy. I'd wager that if you were the one being frisked, you'd feel differently. It doesn't matter if you "get it" or not. We "get it" and this is a very bad situation that is rapidly getting worse on a daily basis.
Obviously they'd be just fine with a process that logs all queries to the database, including who queried it and what they queried, and keeps that log for at least 10 years, and having regular audits of the log files? Because they're not doing anything wrong, so they totally shouldn't mind a bit, right?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The government already knows what everyone's license plate is, so who cares if some camera captures people's plates?
If it's a public road it is open to public view. If you don't want to be monitored use your own road. Or IR Bulbs to mask your signature.
Who are the stores licensing the images to? Is the camera in the form of a plate, or does it take images of plates. If the latter, why do they need to take images of plates? Do they also take images of bowls, mugs and other crockery? What about glassware and cutlery? Or, have I got it the wrong way around altogether and the stores are actually licensing the images from someone else, and not to them?