Slashdot Mirror
NSA Shares Intel On Americans With Israel
An anonymous reader writes "The U.K.'s Guardian newspaper is reporting that the NSA shares the raw intel collected on Americans with Israel. From the article: 'Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the U.S. government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis. ... The deal was reached in principle in March 2009, according to the undated memorandum, which lays out the ground rules for the intelligence sharing. The five-page memorandum, termed an agreement between the U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies "pertaining to the protection of U.S. persons," repeatedly stresses the constitutional rights of Americans to privacy and the need for Israeli intelligence staff to respect these rights. But this is undermined by the disclosure that Israel is allowed to receive "raw Sigint" – signal intelligence. The memorandum says: "Raw Sigint includes, but is not limited to, unevaluated and unminimized transcripts, gists, facsimiles, telex, voice and Digital Network Intelligence metadata and content."'
are mutually exclusive
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
This is no different than our methods for torturing suspected terrorists by routing them to nations which are willing to do the dirty work for us. The NSA has determined they can tap all the calls and gather all the data but not search it without a warrant from the secret rubber stamp court. But all the data can (is?) passed to the Isreali's who can query it without even that oversight. Naturally, the NSA can ask them to do it a favor and query said data on their behalf without any warrant.
Here is my submission:
NSA is sharing personal data of americans and corporations with Israel. The secret deal places no legal limits on the use of data and only official US government communications are protected by the expectation of israeli agents removing such data as soon as it's identified. NSA insists that it complies with the rules governing privacy. There is now maybe less wonder that UNIT 8200 is driving the tech boom in Israel as they get to handle all the raw intelligence and insider information.
OT: Lebanon is indeed quite scenic - Beirut is still worth a visit after all those years of turmoil.
Made comments critical of Israel, next thing you know his Gmail documenting a fling with what's-her-name is brought out. Coincidence? I think not!
The NSA is *spying* on us, and aiding a foreign country with the data. Seriously, what separates this from treason? The fact that they're not betraying the government, just the people?
Don't trust any concentration of power.
it isnt that we have something to hide. the reason we are all upset is that the NSA is spying on people illegally without any repercussions at all. it isnt any of the NSA's damned business what we are doing, and therefore they should not be able to obtain ANY data on ANYONE without a warrant from a judge in a NON SECRET court. there is no such thing as a secret organization that DOESNT abuse their secrecy. as long as the doings of the NSA continue behind closed doors, there will never be any real control over them and they will continue to abuse their power. why should the NSA be able to get away with spying on citizens illegally, but google gets huge fines for just using unsecured networks to transmit data for street view. sure, they are both illegal, but which one is worse, honestly?
The "Americans" didn't make this happen. The American government did. You should ask them.
it isnt that we have something to hide. the reason we are all upset is that the NSA is spying on people illegally without any repercussions at all.
Isn't that what our government says every time they propose a new invasive search? "If you're not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to hide."
Of course, I suppose that's why it's No Such Agency.
More Twoson than Cupertino
"Right" . . . ? It's more like a "notion" now.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
If it makes you feel any better, the Israeli government pinky-promised that they wouldn't use it for anything bad. And that's a PINKY promise, mister!
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
What the NSA, White House, Congress, and Judiciary (ie. FISA courts) are doing is un-Constitutional, meaning you can't get more illegal and deserving of maximum penalty than that. Murder is terrible and wrong, but it does not rise to the level of undermining the basis for our very society and the social contract that binds people to government and vice versa. With murder, one person dies; with undermining our system of government you get chaos, civil war, deprivation, demise of the rule of law, and masses of men, women, and children dying. Which is worse?
So what we're looking at right now, folks, and I mean all of us on the political Right and Left, is an entire government that has colluded to violate the Constitution, that is, the social contract that separates our country and society from Malthusian consequences. There can be no penalty harsh enough to punish them for what they have done. If we do not, as a People, levy that punishment on them now, immediately, then we deserve the misery of the slavery that meek acquiescence consigns us to.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
I don't share your sentiment but along those lines; if I were given a time machine set to take me back to 1939, and one bullet. I'd use the bullet on Allen Dulles not Adolf Hitler.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
what's this got to do with anti-Semitism? Or, is it ok to give intel on American Citizens to other countries as long as the other countries are Israel?
Only I can judge you.
That's not what it says. It says that we have agreements to protect the privacy of those other countries. It doesn't say anything about sharing information with them
Somewhat everyone in US tought that the wrong thing was the NSA could be watching their private phone calls and mails, while it was ok that fully spied in everyone else in the world. Now it should be ok that Israel can access all information from US people and companies, if they don't spy on their own citizens they wouldn't be breaking theirr laws.
My reading of this MOA is very different... The MOA is repeatedly clarifying that U.S. Person information is not to be SENT by the NSA (The NSA's Responsibility to ensure it is not in the data is clearly spelled out in the MOA, if it wasn't already explicit elsewhere). It ALSO indicates that IF Israel's ISNU find's U.S. Person data they must report the finding to the NSA and destroy the information.
The MOA does not give any indication when or why raw SIGINT data would be sent to ISNU, and while it is clear that the NSA does share raw intel, it is also clear that there are cases where the raw data is "Minimized" by the NSA to remove U.S. Person information. The MOA does not guarantee ISNU any access to NSA data -- which data we share is obviously going to be controlled by other agreements and laws.
So a) we share intel with Israel ... I'm pretty sure everyone should have assumed this, and b) we have documented safeguards to restrict that data to intel on NON-U.S. Persons. Really, read the memorandum, that's all it does... every page is devoted to protecting data on U.S. Citizens.
How is this a bad thing? This document is obviously showing intent to avoid domestic spying. Good! If you want to argue that the NSA is not following its own guidelines, or failing to protect U.S. data, this is not good evidence of that.
If it makes you feel any better, the Israeli government pinky-promised that they wouldn't use it for anything bad. And that's a PINKY promise, mister!
Right; I mean, it's not like Mossad has a reputation for being disreputable or anything...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them.
That's only believable if A) you live an utterly sheltered life, where the only world history you learn about comes from Liberty University, or B) you're completely bat-shit insane.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Have gnu, will travel.
None of those other countries suck us dry, make us look bad on the world stage for backing them, or have a huge lobby to influence our government.
As globalization is (mostly) perceived in business and financial spheres (big corporations becoming supranational), lots of other aspects are moving along with this process, including bad ones: spying and security apparatus becoming global, tax enforcement becoming global, propaganda apparatus is becoming global (eg. news media in Poland producing basically the same crap and lies as US media about latest Syria debacle). Opression apparatus is also becoming global. Nation states are becoming obsolete, surpassed by moneyed interests. Politicians all around the world are propably blackmailed by NSA/GCHQ/8200 aparatchics who in turn are taking orders from big business bozos. This is why we see such fiascos as latest Obama &Kerry blunder. Not Obama nor Kerry are so stupid to make such suicidal mistakes - someone is firmly holding them by the balls. Exceptions to this rule (that is, not taking orders from NSA boys) are mercilessly pounded in our "objective" media (Putin being prime example) and their countries attacked from various angles and often outright invaded (see Libya, now Syria).
Dark times ahead, folks. With democratic processes basically defunct - at least as defined in traditional terms of national states, truly global backlash and exposing those fucks like Snowden or Greenwald are the our only hope of reversing our quick slide to (new) dark ages. This is serious, folks. It's not about principles (as our media whores try to convince us), it's about survival. It's about ordinary people NOT being crushed by multinationals and NOT becoming serfs in neo-feudal age. We need a thousand Greenwalds and two thousands Snowdens.
US said they consider cyber-attacks to be an act of war, so I am wondering when will US Government clarify who gave them authorization to declare war on so many countries, including 'allies'.
Because what NSA has been doing for years were acts of war, according to US Government.
You can't be held responsible for something that was done in top secret without you knowing about it.
Seriously, Americans? What do you care? What do you have to hide!?
I don't know yet. Personally, I don't want to find out after the fact that there was something I would have wanted hidden. Maybe I'm doing nothing wrong by today's standards, but who knows how we'll think about ourselves 10, 20, or 40 years from now?
Think of how many older people you know/knew who lived through the days when racism was still openly practiced and encouraged. Think of people who have mellowed their views about homosexuality only in the past decade. Think of how people used to smoke in their homes around their children. Or how they used to spank children that misbehaved. Or let them ride in the back of a truck with no seat belt. Or let them run around naked and even take pictures of it.
If you grew up in a rural area, you probably remember someone having hunting rifles on a gun rack in the back of their truck at school or maybe you even carried a pocketknife to school. Maybe you used to be the kind of geek that wore a trenchcoat before Columbine killed that fashion off.
So who knows what innocent thing I'm doing today that will be disapproved of later? Maybe it'll just be embarrassing. Maybe it'll be blackmail worthy. Maybe it'll even be grounds for suspecting me as some kind of future or current criminal. I mean, how many Muslims in America thought their social networks would be under heavy scrutiny before 9/11?
We shouldn't have to live in perpetual fear of the future or of the judgment of our peers. We need a personal space in which to unwind and to develop our thoughts before they're ready to take before public scrutiny. We need privacy to become ourselves and not just an empty reflection of what others expect from us.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Israel has nukes. While their development was internal to Isreael, it was allowed by Europe and the USA.
If Israel has to nuke an Arab country to keep them from distrupting your precious oil supply, nobody will nuke the USA. Retaliation, nuclear, chemical or otherwise, will fall on Israel. In exchange for the USA's continued support, Israel takes that risk.
So they get perks. Unofficial, unknown, unspoken perks for keeping the uneasy peace in the Middle East and the oil flowing. One of these is information - and yes, some in the tech field are getting screwed by this arrangment.
As an entertaining aside, you can bet that when Arab oil is no longer a significant factor in the world energy picture, Israel will be left to twist in the wind while the region tears itself apart. When that happens, expect a flood of Israeli immigrants.
Cheers!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Yeah, I see what you mean: the old "communists and jews eating our babies" conspiracy again - aka the Blood libel. It's not an explanation, it's a rambling collection of bullshit that traces right back to the Tsarist Ochrana and even darker times before that.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
I for one welcome our Zionist overlords.
US America? EPIC FAIL!
Systemic - therefore non-recoverable. It's all downhill from here, and has been since about '72-'78. Now, it's "all over, 'cept the shouting".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Isreal shares with Russia, Germany, Romania and China.
And anyone else with money.
In fact *everyone* has your information EXCEPT YOU.
Land of the free (snicker)
I think it's time for torches and pitchforks, we the people are being royally screwed by our amoral treasonous government.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
If it makes you feel any better, the Israeli government pinky-promised that they wouldn't use it for anything bad. And that's a PINKY promise, mister!
Right; I mean, it's not like Mossad has a reputation for being disreputable or anything...
And, one should keep in mind that Israel is basically the 51st state so It's not as if the NSA is sharing this data with foreigners.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
If it makes you feel any better, the Israeli government pinky-promised that they wouldn't use it for anything bad. And that's a PINKY promise, mister!
Right; I mean, it's not like Mossad has a reputation for being disreputable or anything...
And, one should keep in mind that Israel is basically the 51st state so It's not as if the NSA is sharing this data with foreigners.
As I stated elsewhere in the thread, Israel is treated more like a 4th branch of government than another state.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them. Must be that we're mere pawns in their global conspiracy.
No, you're just one of the countries that turned away Jewish refugees from Germany before the concentration camps were opened. Don't be too offended - my country did the same. I'm ashamed, as well.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Don't tell David Cameron, he will be insanely jealous.