Slashdot Mirror
NSA Shares Intel On Americans With Israel
An anonymous reader writes "The U.K.'s Guardian newspaper is reporting that the NSA shares the raw intel collected on Americans with Israel. From the article: 'Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the U.S. government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis. ... The deal was reached in principle in March 2009, according to the undated memorandum, which lays out the ground rules for the intelligence sharing. The five-page memorandum, termed an agreement between the U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies "pertaining to the protection of U.S. persons," repeatedly stresses the constitutional rights of Americans to privacy and the need for Israeli intelligence staff to respect these rights. But this is undermined by the disclosure that Israel is allowed to receive "raw Sigint" – signal intelligence. The memorandum says: "Raw Sigint includes, but is not limited to, unevaluated and unminimized transcripts, gists, facsimiles, telex, voice and Digital Network Intelligence metadata and content."'
are mutually exclusive
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I feel very betrayed.
This is no different than our methods for torturing suspected terrorists by routing them to nations which are willing to do the dirty work for us. The NSA has determined they can tap all the calls and gather all the data but not search it without a warrant from the secret rubber stamp court. But all the data can (is?) passed to the Isreali's who can query it without even that oversight. Naturally, the NSA can ask them to do it a favor and query said data on their behalf without any warrant.
Here is my submission:
NSA is sharing personal data of americans and corporations with Israel. The secret deal places no legal limits on the use of data and only official US government communications are protected by the expectation of israeli agents removing such data as soon as it's identified. NSA insists that it complies with the rules governing privacy. There is now maybe less wonder that UNIT 8200 is driving the tech boom in Israel as they get to handle all the raw intelligence and insider information.
Made comments critical of Israel, next thing you know his Gmail documenting a fling with what's-her-name is brought out. Coincidence? I think not!
And do they also share corresponding information with the Egyptian, Jordanian, Saudi or Lebanese government agencies?
The NSA is *spying* on us, and aiding a foreign country with the data. Seriously, what separates this from treason? The fact that they're not betraying the government, just the people?
Don't trust any concentration of power.
it isnt that we have something to hide. the reason we are all upset is that the NSA is spying on people illegally without any repercussions at all. it isnt any of the NSA's damned business what we are doing, and therefore they should not be able to obtain ANY data on ANYONE without a warrant from a judge in a NON SECRET court. there is no such thing as a secret organization that DOESNT abuse their secrecy. as long as the doings of the NSA continue behind closed doors, there will never be any real control over them and they will continue to abuse their power. why should the NSA be able to get away with spying on citizens illegally, but google gets huge fines for just using unsecured networks to transmit data for street view. sure, they are both illegal, but which one is worse, honestly?
The "Americans" didn't make this happen. The American government did. You should ask them.
They made them pinky promise not to abuse that info. NO ONE breaks a pinky promise.
it isnt that we have something to hide. the reason we are all upset is that the NSA is spying on people illegally without any repercussions at all.
Isn't that what our government says every time they propose a new invasive search? "If you're not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to hide."
Of course, I suppose that's why it's No Such Agency.
More Twoson than Cupertino
"Right" . . . ? It's more like a "notion" now.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
What the NSA, White House, Congress, and Judiciary (ie. FISA courts) are doing is un-Constitutional, meaning you can't get more illegal and deserving of maximum penalty than that. Murder is terrible and wrong, but it does not rise to the level of undermining the basis for our very society and the social contract that binds people to government and vice versa. With murder, one person dies; with undermining our system of government you get chaos, civil war, deprivation, demise of the rule of law, and masses of men, women, and children dying. Which is worse?
So what we're looking at right now, folks, and I mean all of us on the political Right and Left, is an entire government that has colluded to violate the Constitution, that is, the social contract that separates our country and society from Malthusian consequences. There can be no penalty harsh enough to punish them for what they have done. If we do not, as a People, levy that punishment on them now, immediately, then we deserve the misery of the slavery that meek acquiescence consigns us to.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
You know I was wondering why, after I posted a pro-Palestinian editorial, I started getting all those magnetic car bombs. I figured it was just the neighborhood kids. But I'm beginning to suspect something more nefarious at work.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
How much negotiating did Israel have to do to get our Telexes included in this?
...considering the US was blocking CheckPoint (an Israeli company) from acquiring SourceFire back in 2005--ostensibly for national security reasons.
I don't share your sentiment but along those lines; if I were given a time machine set to take me back to 1939, and one bullet. I'd use the bullet on Allen Dulles not Adolf Hitler.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
They're sharing gists? What's a gist?
Yeah, except none of the *other* 51 states get to tell the rest what to do. Who do you think is egging on this whole "We MUST strike Syria!" mess? It sure as shit isn't the American People.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Israel is only one of a handful of countries (australia, new zealand, canada, and the uk) that receive this information. Makes you wonder why the article chooses to focus on Israel and ignore those other countries...
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them. Must be that we're mere pawns in their global conspiracy.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If you think that going back to 1939 would help, you are simply ignorant of the relevant history.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Somewhat everyone in US tought that the wrong thing was the NSA could be watching their private phone calls and mails, while it was ok that fully spied in everyone else in the world. Now it should be ok that Israel can access all information from US people and companies, if they don't spy on their own citizens they wouldn't be breaking theirr laws.
What do you have to hide!?
Posted AC.
Have gnu, will travel.
My reading of this MOA is very different... The MOA is repeatedly clarifying that U.S. Person information is not to be SENT by the NSA (The NSA's Responsibility to ensure it is not in the data is clearly spelled out in the MOA, if it wasn't already explicit elsewhere). It ALSO indicates that IF Israel's ISNU find's U.S. Person data they must report the finding to the NSA and destroy the information.
The MOA does not give any indication when or why raw SIGINT data would be sent to ISNU, and while it is clear that the NSA does share raw intel, it is also clear that there are cases where the raw data is "Minimized" by the NSA to remove U.S. Person information. The MOA does not guarantee ISNU any access to NSA data -- which data we share is obviously going to be controlled by other agreements and laws.
So a) we share intel with Israel ... I'm pretty sure everyone should have assumed this, and b) we have documented safeguards to restrict that data to intel on NON-U.S. Persons. Really, read the memorandum, that's all it does... every page is devoted to protecting data on U.S. Citizens.
How is this a bad thing? This document is obviously showing intent to avoid domestic spying. Good! If you want to argue that the NSA is not following its own guidelines, or failing to protect U.S. data, this is not good evidence of that.
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them.
That's only believable if A) you live an utterly sheltered life, where the only world history you learn about comes from Liberty University, or B) you're completely bat-shit insane.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Have gnu, will travel.
Maybe that would be better. As it is, Israel offers absolutely nothing to this ``alliance'' other than a dumping ground for money that we apparently don't need and technology that needs to be sold to China. No one asks what, say, Alabama brings to the Union; they simply are. If we annex Israel then we'll actually have a reason to care about them.
So this is similar to what companies do with their data on you?
Similar, with the exception that companies like Google don't have the power or authority to take away my freedom, either through incarceration or violence.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Just think of Israel as the 4th branch of government.
FTFY.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
b) we have documented safeguards to restrict that data to intel on NON-U.S. Persons.
Funny thing, we have another set of documented safeguards, I think the fourth would the salient safeguard. Time and time again we've seen documentation showing the NSA has violated that safeguard, so why would I take it on trust that they would follow some internal memorandum. That they share intel with Israel would be understood. What is not acceptable is when there are indications they share more then they are allowed by our own laws which are in place to "protect data on U.S. Citizens".
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
As globalization is (mostly) perceived in business and financial spheres (big corporations becoming supranational), lots of other aspects are moving along with this process, including bad ones: spying and security apparatus becoming global, tax enforcement becoming global, propaganda apparatus is becoming global (eg. news media in Poland producing basically the same crap and lies as US media about latest Syria debacle). Opression apparatus is also becoming global. Nation states are becoming obsolete, surpassed by moneyed interests. Politicians all around the world are propably blackmailed by NSA/GCHQ/8200 aparatchics who in turn are taking orders from big business bozos. This is why we see such fiascos as latest Obama &Kerry blunder. Not Obama nor Kerry are so stupid to make such suicidal mistakes - someone is firmly holding them by the balls. Exceptions to this rule (that is, not taking orders from NSA boys) are mercilessly pounded in our "objective" media (Putin being prime example) and their countries attacked from various angles and often outright invaded (see Libya, now Syria).
Dark times ahead, folks. With democratic processes basically defunct - at least as defined in traditional terms of national states, truly global backlash and exposing those fucks like Snowden or Greenwald are the our only hope of reversing our quick slide to (new) dark ages. This is serious, folks. It's not about principles (as our media whores try to convince us), it's about survival. It's about ordinary people NOT being crushed by multinationals and NOT becoming serfs in neo-feudal age. We need a thousand Greenwalds and two thousands Snowdens.
Read the agreement. Perfectly construed agreement - if someone read IV.B.2 you'd understand that whoever wrote the agreement fully understood the intention of the shared agreement. They are probably sharing radar traffic and cable traffic within the region. To extrapolate that to the entire globe is somewhat ludicrous and is someone trying really hard to be stupid.
US said they consider cyber-attacks to be an act of war, so I am wondering when will US Government clarify who gave them authorization to declare war on so many countries, including 'allies'.
Because what NSA has been doing for years were acts of war, according to US Government.
I'll take Death By Snu-Snu instead, if you please.
#DeleteChrome
Yes, dear.
Have gnu, will travel.
Oh, there's an explanation, but it smacks of tinfoil hattery, so it gets ignored.
Go look up '13 satanic bloodlines' or '13 bloodlines of the illuminati' and you'll see what I mean.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
You can't be held responsible for something that was done in top secret without you knowing about it.
Your non-hysterical interpretation will not be the one that people take away from this.
Seriously, Americans? What do you care? What do you have to hide!?
I don't know yet. Personally, I don't want to find out after the fact that there was something I would have wanted hidden. Maybe I'm doing nothing wrong by today's standards, but who knows how we'll think about ourselves 10, 20, or 40 years from now?
Think of how many older people you know/knew who lived through the days when racism was still openly practiced and encouraged. Think of people who have mellowed their views about homosexuality only in the past decade. Think of how people used to smoke in their homes around their children. Or how they used to spank children that misbehaved. Or let them ride in the back of a truck with no seat belt. Or let them run around naked and even take pictures of it.
If you grew up in a rural area, you probably remember someone having hunting rifles on a gun rack in the back of their truck at school or maybe you even carried a pocketknife to school. Maybe you used to be the kind of geek that wore a trenchcoat before Columbine killed that fashion off.
So who knows what innocent thing I'm doing today that will be disapproved of later? Maybe it'll just be embarrassing. Maybe it'll be blackmail worthy. Maybe it'll even be grounds for suspecting me as some kind of future or current criminal. I mean, how many Muslims in America thought their social networks would be under heavy scrutiny before 9/11?
We shouldn't have to live in perpetual fear of the future or of the judgment of our peers. We need a personal space in which to unwind and to develop our thoughts before they're ready to take before public scrutiny. We need privacy to become ourselves and not just an empty reflection of what others expect from us.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Israel has nukes. While their development was internal to Isreael, it was allowed by Europe and the USA.
If Israel has to nuke an Arab country to keep them from distrupting your precious oil supply, nobody will nuke the USA. Retaliation, nuclear, chemical or otherwise, will fall on Israel. In exchange for the USA's continued support, Israel takes that risk.
So they get perks. Unofficial, unknown, unspoken perks for keeping the uneasy peace in the Middle East and the oil flowing. One of these is information - and yes, some in the tech field are getting screwed by this arrangment.
As an entertaining aside, you can bet that when Arab oil is no longer a significant factor in the world energy picture, Israel will be left to twist in the wind while the region tears itself apart. When that happens, expect a flood of Israeli immigrants.
Cheers!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I want some fucking heads to roll damnit!!
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
The reason why Israel is supported is pretty obvious: it's a stable and well guarded military base in a globally sensitive region. It's also a testbed for new tactics to use against unruly populations (handy if the Occupy movement ever gets out of hand) and for new military hardware - no(t many) questions asked.
All in all the military/industrial complex is getting your money's worth out of supporting Israel.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Yeah, I see what you mean: the old "communists and jews eating our babies" conspiracy again - aka the Blood libel. It's not an explanation, it's a rambling collection of bullshit that traces right back to the Tsarist Ochrana and even darker times before that.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
I for one welcome our Zionist overlords.
Right, I'm sure we can trust the NSA to work diligently to make sure no data on US citizens is accidentally sent over, and I'm sure ISNU will report that immediately. That's obviously their primary concern here, and we can trust them to stick to the law.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
US America? EPIC FAIL!
Systemic - therefore non-recoverable. It's all downhill from here, and has been since about '72-'78. Now, it's "all over, 'cept the shouting".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Isreal shares with Russia, Germany, Romania and China.
And anyone else with money.
In fact *everyone* has your information EXCEPT YOU.
Land of the free (snicker)
I think it's time for torches and pitchforks, we the people are being royally screwed by our amoral treasonous government.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
An act of war is not a declaration of war, nor does it imply or require a declaration of war.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
It's a very interesting benefit of being a politician in a democracy. Apparently you can do all the bad shit you want and the people who elect you will get the blame.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
And so they should if they keep electing the same old crooks.
At least in the Federal elections. So is protesting. State nullification via the tenth ammendment is an effective response to Federal overreach. see "marijuana" and "national speed-limit"
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
Yeah, I see what you mean: the old "communists and jews eating our babies" conspiracy again - aka the Blood libel. It's not an explanation, it's a rambling collection of bullshit that traces right back to the Tsarist Ochrana and even darker times before that.
Sounds like something someone who doesn't know how to read between the lines would say.
Yea, 'jews eating babies' is a bit far fetched. A long standing dynasty of self-appointed, old-blood Royals running the show from behind a dark curtain, not so much. Shit, we can't even get details on what goes on behind closed doors during a G20 summit.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Google only indexed unsecured wifi hotspots, they didn't send any data through them. Street view vehicles take terabytes worth of pictures that all have to be organized and processed (blur license plates, etc) in bulk later. Sending that much data through even the fastest of wifi hotspots would just be infeasible.
That's what God wants. It says it in the Bible that Jews are His Chosen People. We can believe the Bible because Jews wrote it and who can doubt God's Chosen People but those who are working for Satan or Nazis?
Seastead this.
Yeah. We're pretty much the only nation on the planet that hasn't tried to corral and exterminate them. Must be that we're mere pawns in their global conspiracy.
No, you're just one of the countries that turned away Jewish refugees from Germany before the concentration camps were opened. Don't be too offended - my country did the same. I'm ashamed, as well.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
One would necessarily have to squint a bit at the Guardian regarding any story having to do with Israel. The Guardian is publicly and proudly the most anti Israeli newspaper printed in English today and, they have often been caught in a lie and making up stories before.
NSA="No Strings Attached"
I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how they get around needing a warrant to peruse the data.
It's actually a representative democracy. Republic simply means a country governed by an elected or non-dynastic leader, which is not mutually exclusive with democracy.
The fact you're clearly insane makes me feel better about disagreeing with your positions in other threads. Thanks for that.
You are not your country, nor are you your country's government. You are not the people of your country in the past, present, or future. You are you. You have no logical reason to be ashamed of the actions of others, but to be merely disappointed with any culture or society which fosters those actions and the beliefs which drive them. By the same token you should not feel pride in the actions of those of your country, in the past or present, as you are not them and played no part. That is the only logically sustainable outlook to have when thinking of one's own relation to their country or, indeed, the countries of others. Everything else is, at one level or another, at best hypocritical and at worst illogical, though usually an unhealthy mix of the two. Patriotism and nationalism are powerful tools for the weak, but in the hands of the strong they are deadly weapons which tend to ensure they are used as such.
The fact that you're such a brainless pot-smoker that you felt compelled to stick "420" in your handle makes me feel better about ignoring pretty much everything you say.
Go eat some more Doritos, burnout.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
And in general, I agree. Especially about things that happened before I was born or my parents were old enough to do anything about them. But the other half of having a healthy sense of nationalism is doing what you can to move your country in the direction you want it to go. That's why I've written letters to politicians, and feel a certain amount of shame to belong to a group, no matter how big it was, that would do such a thing. I don't stay up at night because of it, but I want to keep these actions alive in my thoughts, so I can beware of having some group I'm a part of do something that horrible again.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Oops, I'm sorry, I said I pro-Israel and got Modded down. I should explain.
People who stand in front of their children armed with rifles makes far more sense than those who stand behind their children armed with rifles. I can understand one who says we are protecting our families and children by killing. I cannot understand one who claims to protect their family and children by using them as bombs. Does not compute.
So I can relate much more to Israel's stance. That, and far far far far far more arabs are being killed by their own in the likes of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc, etc. Than Israel ever has...