Slashdot Mirror
It's Official: Voyager 1 Is an Interstellar Probe
astroengine writes "After a 35-year, 11-billion mile journey, NASA's Voyager 1 spacecraft left the solar system to become the first human-made object to reach interstellar space, new evidence from a team of scientists shows. 'It's kind of like landing on the moon. It's a milestone in history. Like all science, it's exploration. It's new knowledge,' long-time Voyager scientist Donald Gurnett, with the University of Iowa, told Discovery News. The first signs that the spacecraft had left the solar system's heliopause was a sudden drop in solar particles and a corresponding increase in cosmic rays in 2012, but this evidence alone wasn't conclusive. Through indirect means, scientist analyzing oscillations along the probe's 10-meter (33-foot) antennas were able to deduce that Voyager was traveling through a less dense medium — i.e. interstellar space." You can watch NASA's briefing on the probe's progress here.
http://xkcd.com/1189/
With everything going on in the world I'm reminded of a hopeful quote:
... let us despise the barbaric neighings which echo through these noble lands, and awaken our understanding and longing for the harmonies."
"In vain does the God of War growl, snarl, roar, and try to interrupt with bombards, trumpets, and his whole tarantantaran
- Johannes Kepler
while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
In a few billion years, some distant alien's house is going to have this thing pummeling through the roof.
Well, this is, what, the 3rd time it's been 'official'?
I think I'll wait a few months before I believe it's officially official.
That's not to say this isn't highly cool -- I just am quite certain I've seen several variations on this over the last few years.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
"but it is, now"
NASA appears to have a nice visualization of the spacecraft's position and the particle flux...
http://eyes.nasa.gov/launch2.html?document=$SERVERURL/content/documents/voyager/voyager_exit.html
We have plenty of our own problems here on Earth! Why is a government-built probe going into interstellar space? Is Obama trying to make health-care truly "universal"? I suppose if our own "illegal aliens" get free health care, why shouldn't Andromedans?
Keep alien overlords out of my health care!
What about the Oort cloud?
I thought you didn't get to interstellar space until you got through that... and that's like 1000 years more.
According to the story, it is actually Voyager 2 and it wen 13 Billion miles, not 11 Billion
They use the same math behind the Vista file copying progress bar to judge its distance.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I am assuming that the primary means of power is electricity from solar photons. Are there enough photons in interstellar space to power Voyager (sensors, communication, navigation, etc)?
Well, in fairness, any "x minutes to completion" is based on a projection -- you'd need to invent time travel to actually get it 100% right. This is true on any platform with a progress bar with a completion time in it.
So, at any given time you can make an estimate, but that's about it. If other things are happening which affect the estimate, it will change.
Mostly they're there to give you something to look at and let you know it hasn't died.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
in fairness
Well, in fairness, there are good estimations, and there are bad estimations.
And then there's Vista.
Seems like every few months, for the last 5 years, there's been a new claim that it has left the solar system.
Persis Kambatta is not dead. She's going to return some day...
I'd rather hear something about NASA work every day than the shit that graces my news channels.
That would still be too fast.
I would be fine if I never had to return to Joliet, the place modernity forgot.
The problem is that the UI needs to show BOTH:
ABSOLUTE bytes copied SO FAR (as in the "past)
RELATIVE time left (as in the "future")
Showing one (or the other) is not giving the user all the information they may need / want.
Putin to America: You're Not Special
I'm sorry, Mr. Putin. I can't hear you over the sound of our own awesome.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
You could at least post the non-mobile version of the link.
Everything is better with chainsaws.
Seventy four year old Harold Lippschitz, chief proponent and designer of Voyager's antenna oscillation meters, was quoted as saying, "Ha ha! They laughed at me years ago at NASA! I told them, 'You're gonna want those damn oscillation meters, they're important!', but the other guys just rolled their eyes and shook their heads. 'There goes Harold again,' they said. 'Jabbering about his damn little meters.' Well, who's laughing now, motherf***ers? Ha HA!"
Proverbs 21:19
If reaching interstellar space and was the original goal, they could have flown in a direction perpendicular to the principal orbital plane of the solar system. We would have achieved the goal almost immediately.
It's Arbitrary: Voyager 1 Is An Interstellar Probe, Probably
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Sending a space ship past the solar system was the only thing holding alien razes from making themselves evident to us.
BSD licensed software can't be stolen....
It's not enough we trash Earth's environment, the Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturns moons, and various junk trash all over the planetary disk.. Now, we're dropping trash outta the SOLAR SYSTEM??? Man, wouldn't you hate to be the garbage crew on that clean up?
XKCD's count of how many times Voyager has left the solar system.
Alright, who is probing my intersteller?
I think they just gave up trying to quantify if it has actually left the solar system after years of false positives and debate, so they just made it official. 99.999999999% of us are not going to check, so its safe bet.
Slightly off topic, but now that Voyager has officially left the solar system, I hope that NASA could spend some time and explain to JJ Abrams that the Enterprise would not actually leave vapor trails that flutter and make a tinkling sound when it goes to warp since light does not crystallize into particles and space has no fucking "downward gravity" or wind or sound.
Seriously would Joss Whedon just beat the shit out of JJ and end it.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Well, it didn't fall threw a black hole.
Besides Star Trek is only a few hundred years in the future. If trek was real life (it isn't), that would mean right out of our solar system is black hole, which I would say would be kinda scary.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Beware all carbon-based life forms infecting planet Earth: ST:TMP
[after Spock comments that, mentally, V'ger is a child]
Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D.: Spock, this "child" is about to wipe out every living thing on Earth. Now, what do you suggest we do? Spank it?
Commander Spock: It knows only that it needs, Commander. But, like so many of us... it does not know what.
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
The windows 8 file copy is actually pretty good. Look up a picture if you haven't seen it. So is.......well, I like the new task manager I guess.
Voyager shall return to Earth from the Delta Quadrant with a non-plussed Captain, an uptight Hologram, a pointy eared Brother and a Cyborg.
Or was that Red Dwarf?
Nasa launches this probe, about the same year that I was born, to study Saturn and Jupiter. Everything goes beautifully so it just keeps on flying. On Valentine's day 1990 just as it's about to leave the solar system they spin the camera around to take the "family portrait". Today it exits the solar system(I know for the 12th time or whatever). Now it just wanders off into the darkness while it's reactor runs down and it's systems shut off one at a time. Who knows, in a few billion years when the sun bakes this planet the golden record might be all that's left of us. Kind of like "The Inner Light" episode of Star Trek, but with less flute.
Wasn't that Voyager 6?
Ol' Rick Dawson had a farm EIEIO
Huge 60-foot panels. I think there was concern about the cost and shortage of plutonium. Just enough for 4-5 more generators in the civiilian stocks.
This story has already appeared on Slashdot multiple times:
March 2013
December 2011
December 2010
May 2005
November 2003
Is it too much to ask that the editors do their jobs and search for dupes before approving a submission?
They use the same math behind the Vista file copying progress bar to judge its distance.
Related obligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/612/
XKCD is great but I'm with you on this...Voyager's data *literally* defined the solar system for us (i'm sure Randall Munroe is up on this and appropriately stoked)
IMHO there is a greater point here about space exploration.
What *is* space exploration? When something like the humble Voyager 1 probe can continue giving usable data for such a long time, it should cause us to ask, why haven't our other missions been as successful?
The Mars rovers are another example. When you consider the scale and complexity of their task, the rovers comparatively performed on par with Voyager 1.
You might say, "We can't plan for what it does after the mission is over, that's kind of the point of having a defined *mission plan*" and to that I say 'hogwash'
It is my firm belief that humans should be taking vacations on Luna *now* and soon stepping foot on Mars. We could do it.
Why aren't we?
I see the same answer in both questions I posed. The best way I can say it is 'operational space research'...
I'm not dogging the Hubble or satellites made to find WIMPS or w/e...I think that it is more a failure of VISION.
Everything we do in space should be based around the notion of iterative progression. Each mission serves a primary function but also has a *secondary* function which is to provide the basis for the **NEXT STEP OUT**
We've been chasing our tails for 20+ years with most of our NASA projects. Don't get me started on the Shuttle and ISS. I won't get into it b/c I get huge downmods every time...
No...my criticism is systemic.
NASA is a tool. Are we using it to its fullest?
Voyager 1's quiet incessant pinging tells me 'no'
Thank you Dave Raggett
Actually, since there was some extra space, NASA threw on a couple Jethro Tull songs.
It was the 70s, everyone was high.
It is my firm belief that humans should be taking vacations on Luna *now* and soon stepping foot on Mars. We could do it.
Why aren't we?
Fact is, it's not profitable. Don't read this as merely a critique of our current quarterly-results-focused society (that's another conversational tarpit I'm usually happy to discuss to death), but more as in, will it ever be profitable. With the discovery of H3 reserves in the Moon, you'd think we'd have all the need we could to send folks to stake claims. Realistically, the "in the black" date for such a mission looms decades or centuries in the future. Does any country or corporation have that kind of planning horizon? I challenge you. The US has abdicated any role of spending any money apparently (see sequester), and corporations are living quarter to quarter.
Face it, traditional exploration and exploitation of the unknown world really rested on the fact that it was generally considered habitable (after the "dragons be here" and flat-earthers were proved wrong) and most importantly, profitable - many natural resources and other humans to exploit and then fight over, and finally trade with.
What resources exist on Moon/Mars/A.belt that really get our conquistador types' blood flowing (and the purses loosened)? Will we as a society ever really mature to the point that even inter-planetary discovery and travel become feasible?
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Corporations living quarter to quarter??? You are dead wrong.
The big 'conquistador' corporations (btw my vision is not a fucking 'conquistador' vision) that exploit resources are the ones with the BIGGEST INCREASE IN PROFITS of all companies that are profitable over the last 10-20 years.
But fsk all that...
'wont be profitable' is a ridiculous argument because everything about going into space causes us to create new technology that can be used in consumer goods
one word: velcro
just extrapolate from there...or not...from your attitude it seems you'd be the one harranging 'It's too dangerous...we shouldn't do it' no matter what the plan...
Thank you Dave Raggett
sorry, meant to link to this article but i didn't tag link:
"Corporate profits hit record as wages get squeezed"
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/03/news/economy/record-corporate-profits/index.html
Thank you Dave Raggett
Dude! Add a Spoiler alert before you let out a secret like that!!!
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
Could you answer this part of my origninal post? It's a question I posed...since you seem so intent on pedantically and patronizingly answering all my questions, I'm fairly surprised you missed it:
I guess you could say my Curiosity is piqued...
Thank you Dave Raggett
Who knows, in a few billion years when the sun bakes this planet the golden record might be all that's left of us. Kind of like "The Inner Light" episode of Star Trek, but with less flute.
Should be pointed out that this is the first, not the only, man made object on a straight course for interstellar space. It will be joined not only by it's sister Voyager probe, but also the Pioneer 10 & 11 probes with their golden plaques, and the New Horizons mission with its CD. All in all, we're getting pretty good at littering the cosmos with our civilization's mementos.
No, it's not. It's kind of like landing on the moon only if they claimed they "landed" on the moon 1000km from the surface, and kept reporting that once again they've "landed" on the moon (officially now!) every 5km thereafter.
Liberty in your lifetime
This is probably not the first human made object to reach interstellar space.
The real furthest object is a man hole cover.
During testing of nuclear weapons they were doing tests underground. They had a nuclear weapon at the bottom of a long shaft.
On top of the shaft was a metal cap.
It's not known how fast it is going or if it actually left the atmosphere but if it did survive it would have been going really fast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob
Yeah, but Pioneer 11 doesn't really count towards the whole "this is how the universe will remember us" thing, since the Klingons are going to use it for target practice at the beginning of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Voyager 2 is not headed toward any particular star, although in roughly 40,000 years it should pass 1.7 light-years (9.7 trillion miles) from the star Ross 248. And if left alone for 296,000 years, Voyager 2 should pass by the star Sirius at a distance of 1.32 parsecs (4.3 ly, 25 trillion miles). Voyager 2 is expected to keep transmitting weak radio messages until at least 2025, over 48 years after it was launched. (wikipedia)
So, assuming it isn't deflected by something we're currently unfamiliar with, the star with a well-known name that it'll get relatively close to is Sirius, the Dog Star.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
The problem is that the estimation is so wrong even when doing nothing else on the system.
Its one thing to get the estimation wrong when the user is doing things that cause random bits of disk access.
There is absolutely NO reason to get it even marginally wrong when the machine is otherwise idle. Disk IO is fairly consistent when copying one file.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Arrgh. That's not a very accurate estimate. Sirius is only 2.6 parsecs distant. Sorry.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Should be pointed out that this is the first, not the only, man made object on a straight course for interstellar space. It will be joined not only by it's sister Voyager probe, but also the Pioneer 10 & 11 probes with their golden plaques, and the New Horizons mission with its CD. All in all, we're getting pretty good at littering the cosmos with our civilization's mementos.
Let's see. Five pieces of litter. Volume of space littered (once they all cross into interstellar space): ((Pi*(24 billion miles)^3)/6)/5 = one peice of litter per 1.45*10^30 cubic miles. That is one piece of litter per 1.45 million trillion trillion cubic miles.
You call that littering!?* We need to do at least a trillion trillion times better than that!
*Where is my interrobang key when I need it?
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Since the Oort cloud lies beyond the heliopause, and is bound to our sun by gravity, how can we say that Voyager has "really" entered interstellar space? Shouldn't true interstellar space be a distance from the sun where nothing is bound directly to Sol by gravity? Where another star has equal pull on an object? Voyager I is currently far from that point in space.
The claim is that it is in interstellar space: i.e. the interstellar medium that pervades the space between star systems. This has nothing to do with gravitational binding of other distant objects. The Oort Cloud is without question in interstellar space, despite very weak gravitational binding to the sun (solar escape velocity there about 100 mph).
Going by the gravitational binding argument you could claim that all five probes "left the solar system" the instant they achieved solar escape velocity and was no longer bound to the sun.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Does anyone know what direction it's headed? Towards any particular star?
The relative motions of stars in our vicinity is many order of magnitudes higher than the velocity of the probes relative to the sun. They have no meaningful velocity toward any other star system. The future encounters with star systems have to be projected statistically through the theory of random processes.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
11 billion miles / 35 years / 365 days / 24 hours = 35,877 miles per hour.
The fastest plane that has ever flown on earth is the SR71 blackbird and it topped out at around 2,200 mph. This humble probe beat it by a long shot.
Of course, Voyager doesn't have to worry much about friction, or gravity... But still an impressive speed.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
And yet, XP, Win2K3, Win2K8, and Win7 are all far more accurate. . .
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
> If trek was real life (it isn't),
Thank you for clarifying that. ;)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Off on it's way to become V'ger, come back looking for its creator, build a probe in the image of a carbon unit, then merge with a carbon unit, leave our dimension, and finally, some suspect, go psychotic and eventually evolve into the Borg.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
There was no Star Trek V - it jumped straight from IV to VI! Now if only they'd make the prequels to the Star Wars movies...
[TMB]
Wrong.
The '55 patent covers a variation on the 3-hook bra closure.
Thank you for playing "Fraudulent Evidence that I provided no links for."
Please take your place behind blah blah your an idiot
Thank you Dave Raggett
is the mother of invention...
exactly my point...pushing ourselves to other worlds is the next logical step
you really proved my point for me there...
Thank you Dave Raggett
holy shit that thing is older than me..! Bobak Ferdowsi...yea..you keep that Mohawk man.. +1
Summary appears to be wrong.
"...were able to deduce that Voyager was traveling through a less dense medium — i.e. interstellar space."
Interstellar space is apparently 40 times more dense than space in the solar system. The solar wind pushes the particles back to the edge of the solar system, making the plasma more dense at the edge (not less dense).
To quote from NASA
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-277
"Voyager 1's plasma wave instrument detected the movement. The pitch of the oscillations helped scientists determine the density of the plasma. The particular oscillations meant the spacecraft was bathed in plasma more than 40 times denser than what they had encountered in the outer layer of the heliosphere. Density of this sort is to be expected in interstellar space."
exactly...it was the seed of an idea that kind of worked...THEN...b/c of *necessity* someone at NASA developed it into the fully functional, fashionable product we have today
'THANKS NASA'
Thank you Dave Raggett
yep, *that's all I was ever trying to say*, just one point among many to lead to a thought question about human space exploration....**ONE** point among many...I wasn't myopic in any way
you ever play the game 'telephone'?
you know, it's a kids game: you get in a circle and each person whispers a story to the next and you see if it is the same as when it started
YOU AGREE WITH ME...read my original post
go on...read it...this is a lesson for you and anyone who continued reading this far...there **IS** a reason why human spaceflight isn't where it could be...and this exchange is **definitely** part of the problem!!!
Thank you Dave Raggett
V'Ger
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
wrong...show me in blockquotes where I 'attacked' someone...
i used an example to make a greater point...by *definition* an analogy will 'break down' at some point and therefore not be suitable as evidence for a statement
I made **several** statements...pointing to a greater point
those idiots blasted my greater point....and as evidence found the inevitable area where my analogy breaks down and attack that...whether it is salient or not...
it's fucking stupid and makes anyone who reads it stupid...that's the point
Thank you Dave Raggett
man...screw you twice..
you **claim** to have productive ideas to add to the discussion...and express anger that 'your side' is misrepresented...
so, you type a post to bitch about pedantic shit unrelated to the main point...
instead of just **TYPING YOUR IDEA** and letting the community judge
typical attitude of space enthusiasts...mimicking NASA's administration...chasing your tail instead of doing something that *matters*
Thank you Dave Raggett
I have met too many people, who couldn't fully grasp that concept.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Unfortunately, I believe you. o.O
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50