Intel's Wine-Powered Microprocessor

Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by dtmos · 2013-09-15 03:38 · Score: 3, Funny

The engineer poured red wine into a glass containing circuitry on two metal boards during a keynote by Genevieve Bell, Intel fellow, at the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco.

[. . .]

Low power doesn't mean low performance, with Intel now thinking about microwatts, not milliwatts, said Mike Bell, vice president and general manager of the New Devices group, during an appearance at the keynote.

[. . .]

Future computing devices will be able to understand human behavior through data gathered by embedded sensors and other wearable technology, Bell said. Projects are also underway at Intel labs to bring a more "human element" to mobility, she said.

What a poorly edited article. One never knows which Bell -- Genevieve or Mike -- is speaking.

this just in by iggymanz · 2013-09-15 03:46 · Score: 4, Informative

Putting dissimilar metals connected by external conductive path in an electrolyte will cause current flow.

I've even seen some outdoors website forum people going gaga over the concept that nailing a couple dissimilar metallic spikes into a tree can "make electricity". Please, just carry a spare battery for your cell phone, breaching the bark of a tree with reactive metals is bad.

Re:this just in by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 03:55 · Score: 5, Informative

I got a good chuckle from your comment but maybe the point of the demo is how little juice is required to power the computer.
Re:this just in by Rockoon · 2013-09-15 04:25 · Score: 1

I got a good chuckle from your comment but maybe the point of the demo is how little juice is required to power the computer.
It wasn't juice... it was wine.

--
"His name was James Damore."
Re:this just in by Penguinisto · 2013-09-15 04:26 · Score: 4, Informative

AC is of course correct - the point was that they made the equivalent of a potato clock, but on a computer.
IIRC, they're not even the first to make a simple electrolysis battery drive a computer. Which means we have at least one outside boundary for the typical Slashdot editor's memory-span...

--
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Re:this just in by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 04:55 · Score: 1

You aren't really up on your wine theory are you? In other news. Windows isn't software, it's an operating system!

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:this just in by Necronomicode · 2013-09-15 04:57 · Score: 1

Jesus juice maybe?
Re:this just in by maestroX · 2013-09-15 06:08 · Score: 4, Funny

AC is of course correct - the point was that they made the equivalent of a potato clock [wikihow.com], but on a computer.

Incorrect, eloctrolysis uses direct current (DC) by definition :)
Re:this just in by Dunbal · 2013-09-15 10:10 · Score: 2

Windows isn't an operating system, it's a remote login daemon.

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re:this just in by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 22:47 · Score: 0

So that's why the Romans didn't invent solar panels!

this is exactly what we needed! by Xicor · 2013-09-15 03:46 · Score: 0

this amazing innnovation is going to set us on an amazing course for the future

Re:this is exactly what we needed! by kamapuaa · 2013-09-15 03:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

The demonstration is that Intel has chips running on extremely low power, which honestly is kind of cool.
Using a potato clock to power it was a bit of showmanship that the article submitter turned into the main focus.

--
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by binarylarry · 2013-09-15 04:24 · Score: 1

France is gonna be pissed when the price of wine skyrockets because of demand from everyone's mobile devices!

--
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by binarylarry · 2013-09-15 04:27 · Score: 1

Although on second thought, French wine growers are going to be really happy buying new gold plated lear jets.

--
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:00 · Score: 1

"Although on second thought, French wine growers are going to be really happy buying new gold plated lear jets."
Sure, but can they power them with wine?

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by rubycodez · 2013-09-15 05:13 · Score: 2

yes, we can call these electrolytes with dissimilar metals in them a "power cell", and if we make a group, a battery, of them to get either higher potentials or more current , we could call them.......batterized cells? hmnmm, maybe a single word could convey the meaning.....??
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by ClaraBow · 2013-09-15 05:19 · Score: 1

Yeah, they just leap frogged ARM! This will be the year of Intel powered phones! ; )
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by McGruber · 2013-09-15 05:58 · Score: 1

Please don't whine about how much wine it takes to run Wine!
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by dbIII · 2013-09-15 06:08 · Score: 1

FFS don't let anyone invent the wine filled inkjet printer or they'll be dusting off Concorde for their gold plated jets.
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by fahrbot-bot · 2013-09-15 06:56 · Score: 1

The demonstration is that Intel has chips running on extremely low power, which honestly is kind of cool.
Actually, this is because Intel developers obviously drink a LOT and probably accidentally knocked an open bottle of wine onto something in the lab. The "demonstration" is the result of the official incident write-up as an "experiment"... :-)

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Re: this is exactly what we needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:56 · Score: 0

I think a missed point was being shown with this demo.
ANYONE can make wine! And with very limited resources. They've shown 'the grid' is no longer a requirement with electronics. And neither is solar.
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by Dunbal · 2013-09-15 10:14 · Score: 1

Targeted ads on your wine glasses in the better restaurants? You know it's going to happen.

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by Dunbal · 2013-09-15 10:16 · Score: 1

The price of French wine is already skyrocketing because the Chinese are buying up all the wine. There are lots and lots of Chinese, and lots and lots of them are getting wealthy enough to afford wine...

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Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re: this is exactly what we needed! by petermgreen · 2013-09-15 10:17 · Score: 3, Informative

I don't know if you are being serious but AIUI at least one of the electrodes is a consumable. So to maintain crude batteries you need not just a supply of electrolyte (the wine) but also a supply of refined metals.

--
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by fast+turtle · 2013-09-15 11:01 · Score: 1

Did you want some Canapes and Crackers with your whine?

--
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
Re:this is exactly what we needed! by manu0601 · 2013-09-15 13:24 · Score: 1

France produce more wine that it consumes, therefore a soaring price will benefit the local economy.

wine? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 03:47 · Score: 5, Funny

but wine is not an emulator! http://www.winehq.org/

oh, the other kind of wine

Re:wine? by Hentes · 2013-09-15 04:26 · Score: 1

It is quite ambigous, Slashdot should stop capitalizing every word.
Re:wine? by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:04 · Score: 1

It isn't ambiguous at all. Even ignoring for the moment that context tells us it isn't a kind of software (Only an idiot would say that a processor was "Powered by ") WINE is an acronym, and Wine is a capitalized word..

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:wine? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:09 · Score: 0

It was translated from German.
Re:wine? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:24 · Score: 4, Funny

WINE = Wine Is Not Electricity
Re:wine? by doctor+woot · 2013-09-15 06:16 · Score: 1

(Only an idiot would say that a processor was "Powered by ")
In other words it's something one should expect to find on Slashdot.
Re: wine? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:16 · Score: 0

wine = wine != electricity. Perfect.
Re:wine? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:47 · Score: 0

Now the question is, can the wine powered processor run Wine?
Re:wine? by unixisc · 2013-09-15 18:05 · Score: 1

You meant, 'can wine run WINE?'

Technology? by ByteSlicer · 2013-09-15 03:47 · Score: 2

So, is this a compact fuel cell (new tech, catalyzes ethanol into energy), or just a chemical battery (old tech, converting acidic wine and metal contacts into energy)?

Re:Technology? by QuasiSteve · 2013-09-15 04:08 · Score: 1

old tech, converting acidic wine and metal contacts into energy
That one.

Cheer up, meatbags by carlhirsch · 2013-09-15 03:50 · Score: 5, Funny

And that's the story of how Bender's great-grandpappy was born.

--
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"

Re:Cheer up, meatbags by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 09:21 · Score: 0

He doesn't need alcohol. He can stop any time he wants.

Has Shown by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 03:50 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Has showed is typical American gibberish but that does not make it correct. I have contacted the Queen. Remain where you are.

Clarification? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 03:53 · Score: 0

Was the wine the true power source? Or a mere inefficient "salt bridge" between dissimilar metals? I'd like to know if the same circuits would work in salt water rather than wine. That would clarify whether the energy was truely obtained from the stored chemical energy in the alcohol vs. galvanic energy harnessed by electrically connecting dissimilar metals.

Re:Clarification? by rubycodez · 2013-09-15 05:14 · Score: 1

sure it would work grandly, but the metals would be eaten faster.

Drill for more wine! by cookYourDog · 2013-09-15 03:53 · Score: 1

I'm glad we're sitting on easily extractable oceans of this stuff!

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 03:55 · Score: 1

After the sex change, Mike became Genevieve.

How to make a battery by Geoffrey.landis · 2013-09-15 03:57 · Score: 1

Putting dissimilar metals connected by external conductive path in an electrolyte will cause current flow.

Exactly. The wine isn't "powering" the microprocessor. It's the electrolyte. The battery is powered by the electron transfer reaction between the two metals of different oxidation potential.

http://www.how-things-work-science-projects.com/lemon-battery.html#lemon_battery

--
http://www.geoffreylandis.com

Re:How to make a battery by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 04:59 · Score: 1

"The wine isn't "powering" the microprocessor. It's the electrolyte."
No. No. It wasn't the electolyte, it was the electrons! (Cue particle physicists further breakdown - excuse the pun) Also, no need for quotes around the word "powering" as the word "powering" is not only a verb, it is the correct verb. Also, gasoline doesn't "power" cars (shit ... it's contagious), it is the chemical reaction!

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:How to make a battery by rubycodez · 2013-09-15 05:10 · Score: 1

It certainly is not the electrons, those are the things being powered, having work done on them. the metals and electrolyte are doing the work
Re:How to make a battery by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:23 · Score: 1

I guess you didn't know that metals are made up of electrons among other things. In truth, nobody know for sure how it works, despite claims to the contrary, thus the comment about cueing the particle physicists. The one thing we can safely say is that it is a phenomenally stupid thing to say that the metals and the electrolyte that are doing the work.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:How to make a battery by starfishsystems · 2013-09-15 05:29 · Score: 1

In principle the ethanol in wine could power a fuel cell. That's what I would expect from the phrase "wine-powered".

--
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
Re: How to make a battery by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:48 · Score: 0

when the microprocessor gets drunk with wine it powers itself. but you need to be careful because it tends to produce fallacious computations.
Re:How to make a battery by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:53 · Score: 0

It's the arrangement of the metals mediated by electrolyte that "is doing the work" on the electrons, though this is really just an energy storage mechanism. The real work was done in refining the metals into those pure forms where they could function as anode and cathode.
Re: How to make a battery by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:13 · Score: 0

I though hey had figured out a way to run a Windows program reliably.
Re:How to make a battery by Geoffrey.landis · 2013-09-15 08:08 · Score: 1

"The wine isn't "powering" the microprocessor. It's the electrolyte."
No. No. It wasn't the electolyte, it was the electrons!
The word "it" refers to "wine." The wine is the electrolyte.

--
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Re:How to make a battery by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 08:58 · Score: 1

As you just exemplified, you don't know how it works. "It is this. No it is really this. Some work had to be done to get it so it would work. That was the real work." Blah. Blah. Blah.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:How to make a battery by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 09:17 · Score: 1

See this: ; ; you should learn how to use it. (The word "it" refers to the semi-colon)

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:How to make a battery by Dunbal · 2013-09-15 10:13 · Score: 1

Yeah, is it really negative electrons moving around, or is it positive holes moving around in the opposite direction? Only when we manage to shrink ourselves down to subatomic size will we actually find out (the answer is probably "none of the above") lol.

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re: How to make a battery by meiao · 2013-09-15 23:37 · Score: 1

They're trying to recreate Windows ME.
Re:How to make a battery by rubycodez · 2013-09-16 14:12 · Score: 1

You need some remedial physics. A metal is mostly nucleons by mass and by simple count. Electron movement is always due to work being done on them. In this situation the metal and electrolytes are supplying energy which is equivalent to performing the work (work-energy equivalence). Yes, I'm a physicist.
Re:How to make a battery by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-17 01:23 · Score: 1

". Yes, I'm a physicist."
ROTFLMAO. Plonk.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

What next ? by eulernet · 2013-09-15 03:59 · Score: 4, Funny

Wine is the first step, but why don't we use blood to power microprocessors ?

Everybody can easily extract blood, and a processor named Vampire would be so cool.

Re:What next ? by TeknoHog · 2013-09-15 04:30 · Score: 1

The next step, obviously, is to use the CPU to run Wine, thus solving the world's energy problems once and for all.

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:What next ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:30 · Score: 0

"Goin` to hire a wino to power up our home server so you need to roam"
Am sure someone here can do a better job with the song rewrite.
Re:What next ? by StripedCow · 2013-09-16 00:15 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, blood is already used to "power" electronics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan

--
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Re:What next ? by willy_me · 2013-09-16 08:51 · Score: 1

Actually useful for medical sensors.

Re:Could it also run on urine? by Smallpond · 2013-09-15 03:59 · Score: 3, Funny

Plus we get to name the support site Urine Trouble.

next up by wbr1 · 2013-09-15 04:02 · Score: 4, Funny

GLADos in a potato

--
Silence is a state of mime.

Re:Could it also run on urine? by jones_supa · 2013-09-15 04:04 · Score: 2

Difficult to acquire wine in Germany?

In vino verilog. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 04:05 · Score: 5, Funny

--

Powered by Wine by ctk76 · 2013-09-15 04:08 · Score: 1

I've been telling my wife how I'm being powered by wine and its cousins. Now I have a concrete example.

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 04:08 · Score: 5, Funny

After all of the wine mysteriously disappeared, Mike became Genevieve.

Fixed.

One for you; one for me. by wisnoskij · 2013-09-15 04:17 · Score: 1

One for you; one for me.

--
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

This would be an automatic F by Macchendra · 2013-09-15 04:19 · Score: 0

in a 1950's junior high science-fair.

Re:This would be an automatic F by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:09 · Score: 2

Really? I would have thought showing any kind of CPU powered in any manner at all would have rocked their world.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

better to just run windows and not wine+other os by Joe_Dragon · 2013-09-15 04:32 · Score: 0

better to just run windows and not wine+other os

Spirits by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 04:33 · Score: 0

Hmm, I wonder if red vs white will make a difference? How about Cabernet vs Merlot ;)
May be dipping it into moonshine will allow for overclocking as well.

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 04:33 · Score: 0

The difference is that Genevieve is actually smart.

AMD responds with beer CPU. Seriously, though ... by raymorris · 2013-09-15 04:34 · Score: 1

Will AMD respond with a beer powered processor ?
Seriously, though, it's good to see Intel is serious about, and capable of, truly low power.

Ten years ago, it was a race for the most powerful processor, and Intel won*. Now it's about competing for the lowest power. Kind of ironic.

* For single threaded applications. A web server with a $200 AMD 8-core CPU at 4GHz will beat the pants off $200 of Intel CPU.

I thought Windows powered intel? by deviated_prevert · 2013-09-15 04:40 · Score: 1

Or was it Windows was powered by Intel, NOW YOU ARE telling me that Intel can power a chip by EMULATION INSTEAD OF WINDOWS?

--
This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call

Re:I thought Windows powered intel? by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:16 · Score: 1

Actually, Turning told us this long before Gates had his first abortion.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:I thought Windows powered intel? by hobarrera · 2013-09-16 07:19 · Score: 1

Wine Is Not an Emulator (WINE).

[Funny Title] by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 04:41 · Score: 0

[Hilarious joke about the Wine compatibility layer.]

Second Law of Thermodynamics ??? by pollarda · 2013-09-15 04:48 · Score: 1

What happened to the second law of thermodynamics? As I read this, Windows is run in Wine which can then power the chip to run Windows.....

Re:Second Law of Thermodynamics ??? by deviated_prevert · 2013-09-15 15:20 · Score: 1

What happened to the second law of thermodynamics? As I read this, Windows is run in Wine which can then power the chip to run Windows.....
Guess this is why some people get a headache from wine. It must be the shit in wine that gives people headaches that can actually power a chip emulating Windows??? Personally wine that gives other people headaches gives me the squirts especially the red plonk from Washington State. Even some from California gives me the squirts!!! Wouldn't it be appropriate if someone brought out a cheap wine called Windows Pentium Power House Red? Instead of drinking it you pour it over your motherboard!

--
This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2013-09-15 04:53 · Score: 1

I think you've just misspelled "Lynn Conway". (Or was it Sophie Wilson?)

--
Ezekiel 23:20

Wrong focus by Osgeld · 2013-09-15 04:58 · Score: 2

The interesting part is not that intel made a battery using 2 metals and an acid, its the fact that they powered up a cpu and a display from such a weak battery.

Very Nice Intel by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:01 · Score: 0

There is no better way to reach out to the poor masses than by using wine to power electronics.

Re:better to just run windows and not wine+other o by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:07 · Score: 1

So long as we are talking about a system that requires you to give blood in order to run it's the only choice in fact. Those of us who don't want to give blood and risk infection will continue to use WINE though.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

When will it come full-circle? by jaycvollmer · 2013-09-15 05:09 · Score: 1

Let me know when I can run WINE on it.

Re:When will it come full-circle? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:16 · Score: 0

Wine (the software) is not written "WINE".

Re:AMD responds with beer CPU. Seriously, though . by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 05:14 · Score: 1

"Ten years ago, it was a race for the most powerful processor, and Intel won*. Now it's about competing for the lowest power. Kind of ironic."

It isn't ironic at all. There was never a time when CPU companies were in a race to create processors that sucked up and wasted through heat dissipation as much electrical power as possible. The goal was always to keep the devices as efficient as possible while still providing more processing power. You are mixing concepts because you have failed to use adjectives.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Re:Could it also run on urine? by Attila+the+Bun · 2013-09-15 05:14 · Score: 0

When in remote places like Mongolia, most parts of Africa or even Germany, it can be difficult to acquire wine

I can see you how you got from German wine to urine.

Now, If Intel Can Make a White Shirt by retroworks · 2013-09-15 05:33 · Score: 1

I'll be golden, my spills won't go to waste.

--
Gently reply

rich people problems by supernova87a · 2013-09-15 05:34 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, places that have wine tend not be short on electric power either.

But I get the good intention of the demonstration.

Re:Could it also run on urine? by Hognoxious · 2013-09-15 05:43 · Score: 2

There's Wien, which technically is in Austria. But it's nothing a little Anschluss can't solve.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

But can it emulate Windows? by Reeznarch · 2013-09-15 05:43 · Score: 1

I heard you like wine, so I'm running Wine on a processor powered by wine.

Re:AMD responds with beer CPU. Seriously, though . by Hognoxious · 2013-09-15 05:51 · Score: 5, Funny

There was never a time when CPU companies were in a race to create processors that sucked up and wasted through heat dissipation as much electrical power as possible.

I guess you never owned a Pentium 4.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Great, now people have to remember by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 05:58 · Score: 0

Does red or white wine go with server side apps? And which one for GUI?

I guess we'll log onto Yahoo to find out.

Speaking for the lush-on-the-go community. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:14 · Score: 0

This needs to be more than a tech demo for your low power components, intel. Due to (excessive, as deemed by the court system) alcohol consumption, I often forget to charge my array of personal electronics. At what point can we expect a "one for me, one for you" implementation?

Will be illegal in France by Culture20 · 2013-09-15 06:14 · Score: 1

Changes the flavor of the wine, I'm sure.

Nice excuse, Intel by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 06:36 · Score: 0

Next time someone discover something like the Pentium bug, Intel will claim we used too much wine and the CPU got drunk.

Re:better to just run windows and not wine+other o by TeknoHog · 2013-09-15 06:38 · Score: 1

better to just run windows and not wine+other os

I guess the world's energy problems can also be solved with a big WHOOSH next to a wind turbine.

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.

They're just using humans as a design template by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 07:19 · Score: 0

I, too, am equipped with a wine-powered processor.

the goal was CPU power, power usage be damned by raymorris · 2013-09-15 07:31 · Score: 0

For 20 years, RISC processors used 1/10th - 1/100th as much power, yet Intel was the big name brand because CPU speed was king. As Hognoxious pointed out, the P4 is a great example that people generally didn't care too much about power usage. 125 watts was a little high, but acceptable. Now 1 watt is considered a little too high, and companies are hyping 1.5 Ghz processors, a third the speed of existing offerings.

Re:the goal was CPU power, power usage be damned by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 09:10 · Score: 1

The reason why 125 watts was "a little high" then was that the technology for CISC didn't allow for much better at the time. Technology changes and the bar gets lowered. That in no way means that nobody cared about power drain and efficiency at the time, It certainly doesn't mean that companies were in a rush to create devices that drew more power. There was never any advantage to that.

" Now 1 watt is considered a little too high, and companies are hyping 1.5 Ghz processors, a third the speed of existing offerings."
They aren't hyping them for desktops; just smart phones and tablets. Since there were no smart-phones and tablets back then you are comparing two different markets completely. You might say laptops are the exception, but they aren't. There have always been lower power options for CPUs so long as there has been laptops.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:the goal was CPU power, power usage be damned by QQBoss · 2013-09-15 14:58 · Score: 1

When I started with Motorola in the mid/late '80s, the RISC processor called the 88100 was in the process of being released. It was a physical monstrosity compared to the MC68030 and prior, and consumed an outrageous 25 watts. I made a comment to one of the architects that they should have put it in a circular package instead of square one, and he went off about how incredibly wasteful that would be, how hard it would be to escape the signals, etc... before finally asking me why would I even consider that. I said, at 25 watts, it would make a much better coffee warmer than the 68030 (the 68030 was on the order of a 2.5W CPU, typically passively cooled).
I learned that day that some architects have very little sense of humor.
Later, talking to some Intel reps about the BTX specification that was in the planning stages, I suggested that they put a metal plate standing up from the motherboard in their spec, between the graphics card slot and the CPU. When asked why, I suggested it was so that in a tower case, a person could place their cookies or brownies on the plate to cook, given that their CPU was 25 watts over the 100W bulb used in an Easy Bake Oven (TM somebody, I forget) and with all the fans, the convection cooking capability could be wonderful. This discussion was going on as I was trying to convince them to let us (my employer at the time, Dell) produce a demonstration desktop computer around Yonah (mobile CPU, prior to Intel giving up on the P4 architecture, which was competitive with the P4 on integer benchmarks, but had relatively poor fp performance). Funny thing about that, they seemed more offended about my suggestion that a 'mobile' cpu architecture could be competitive in a desktop environment than their current desktop CPU offering could make every office smell like chocolate chip cookies every day. My, how the worm turned.
Re:the goal was CPU power, power usage be damned by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 15:30 · Score: 0

that's because back in the day, mobile and desktop CPU architectures were handled by different teams, so suggesting to desktop people to use the mobile architecture was like, insulting their work. funny thing is, eventually the internal battle between those two groups was won by the mobile people, so you were absolutely right to make that suggestion!

RISC allowed 99% lower power and nobody cared by raymorris · 2013-09-15 09:24 · Score: 0

CISC couldn't go that fast without using 125 watts.
RISC could use 99% less power and go half as fast.

Everybody bought "Intel inside", even though it drew a hundred times more power.

Yes, mobile is one reason people now care more about power consumption. Waking up to it's effect on datacenter costs is another.

You said:
"The goal was always to make devices as efficient as possible"
If that were, CISC would have been dead on arrival.
Intel has pretty much admitted that CISC will be dead soon unless they cut power usage by 99% because suddenly power usage is more important than brute speed.

Re:RISC allowed 99% lower power and nobody cared by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 09:46 · Score: 2

It was never true that a RISC component could "go half as fast" as a CISC component, nor was it true that RISC architectures that could compete with CISC drew 1% as much power. You are comparing apples and oranges by calling the finish line 1 instruction. In other words, clocking a RISC chip at the same speed as a CISC chip doesn't make them equally fast. With RISC you need to execute a significantly greater number of instructions to execute the same source code. You also don't know what the word efficient means in the context of my statement. That being said, I've learned a long time ago that trying to educate someone with a high 7 digit SlashID is a losing battle, so enjoy your delusion.

--
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Re:RISC allowed 99% lower power and nobody cared by funky_vibes · 2013-09-15 12:15 · Score: 1

I thought this discussion ended decades ago.
Nowadays CPUs use concepts from both families, and other, new concepts which aren't publicly being discussed because most of the ipad generation knows nothing about chip design anymore.
We learned it's a good idea to design chips to accomodate the user (in this case a C compiler) rather than the other way around.
Now that we've reached the end of that free lunch, we need to do vector instructions, parallel chips and other methods that suck because they require constant change in legacy code...
Re:RISC allowed 99% lower power and nobody cared by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-15 12:26 · Score: 1

You have been around long enough to know this discussion will never end. There will always be new fish. Note that I am not arguing for one approach over the other, but rather trying to get the new fish to realize that he is woefully misinformed. A hybrid approach is almost always the best answer in any design approach, not just in a CISC vs RISC scenario. Any time people treat as mutually exclusive that which is not by nature mutually exclusive that removes options, and so long as intelligent choice is being made with regard to those options, it is always bad to remove options from consideration during the design process.

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Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

salvation! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 09:34 · Score: 0

hopefully this will deter skynet from putting us all into the matrix.
afterall, wine stomped by robo feet (and controlled) by skynet tastes better ... less cheesy?

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by wonkey_monkey · 2013-09-15 10:17 · Score: 1

Sophie Wilson played a barmaid in a BBC drama about the rivalry between Acorn and Amstrad. Not sure if she actually served himself a drink.

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systemd is Roko's Basilisk.

This is a true story... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 12:13 · Score: 0

I spilled an entire glass of red wine onto my MacBook Pro that was powered on. It ruined it!! How the hell does red wine power that circuitry??

Is it made of Frenchmen strapped for cash? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-15 14:52 · Score: 0

Like the mechanical Turk, but French...

Wien vs wein by unixisc · 2013-09-15 18:07 · Score: 1

That is Wien (pronounced 'ween'), whereas wine in German is wein (rhymes w/ Rhine)

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by terjeber · 2013-09-15 21:04 · Score: 1

It's called context, and in context there is never any doubt about which Bell we are talking about. Failing to understand would be entirely blamed on your ability (or rather lack of such) to read.

Re:Genevieve Bell? Mike Bell? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2013-09-15 23:03 · Score: 1

Not sure if she actually served himself a drink.

Haha. :) Yeah, I have to see that piece, it's the stuff of legends. Poor Sir Clive. :-)

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Ezekiel 23:20

Perfect for keyboards by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 01:38 · Score: 0

I want a wine-powered keyboard. So when the wine is gone, you can't type anymore.

Athlon Thunderbird Wine core? by intermodal · 2013-09-16 03:29 · Score: 1

I'm waiting to see the trademark complaint from AMD when someone tries to use Thunderbird wine on an Intel processor, proving that AMD continues to protect its place as the leader in budget processors.

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In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!

Nice! Only 3-4 by Jmc23 · 2013-09-16 04:00 · Score: 1

thousands years after the egyptians but we got there!

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Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.

Just great... by whitroth · 2013-09-16 04:56 · Score: 1

First there's a food shortage as the US converts corn to ethanol, and the price of corn and corn meal go through the roof. Now we're going to have to run our systems on wine, and the price of even cheap crap will go through the roof....

mark "I'll have the inexpensive 12 yr single malt, please, I can't afford the MD 2020"

Re:AMD responds with beer CPU. Seriously, though . by hobarrera · 2013-09-16 07:18 · Score: 1

Or an Athlon XP 2000+. Honestly, I used to keep my very small bedroom warm with that CPU and a 15" CRT through the entire winter back in the day. No kidding.
Nowadays' LCDs and CPUs suck, I need a heater to stay warm in winter!

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Intel's Wine-Powered Microprocessor

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