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Students Hack School-Issued iPads Within One Week

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Los Angeles Unified School District started issuing iPads to its students this school year, as part of a $30 million deal with Apple. Now Sam Sanders reports at NPR that less than a week after getting their iPads, high school students have found a way to bypass software blocks on the devices that limit what websites the students can use. The students are getting around software that lets school district officials know where the iPads are, what the students are doing with them at all times and lets the district block certain sites, such as social media favorites like Facebook. 'They were bound to fail,' says Renee Hobbs, who's been a skeptic of the iPad program from the start. 'There is a huge history in American education of being attracted to the new, shiny, hugely promising bauble and then watching the idea fizzle because teachers weren't properly trained to use it and it just ended up in the closet.' The rollout of the iPads might have to be delayed as officials reassess access policies. Right now, the program is still in Phase 1, with fewer than 15,000 iPads distributed. 'I'm guessing this is just a sample of what will likely occur on other campuses once this hits Twitter, YouTube or other social media sites explaining to our students how to breach or compromise the security of these devices,' says Steven Zipperman. 'I want to prevent a "runaway train" scenario when we may have the ability to put a hold on the roll-out.' The incident has prompted questions about overall preparations for the $1-billion tablet initiative."

57 of 375 comments (clear)

  1. well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good thing they didn't waste $1 billion on teachers or books.

    1. Re:well by TWiTfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, at least the kids are learning something from their iPads, though it's not the lessons the schools intended.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    2. Re:well by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful
      One lesson everyone can take away from this is that trying to lock down devices for patronizing reasons is foolish. Surprisingly, it appears the schools are at least sort of getting that message:

      "So we talked to students, and we asked them, 'Why did you do this?' And in many cases, they said, 'You guys are just locking us out of too much stuff.' " He says, after talking with students, that the Los Angeles Unified School District's iPad policy probably should be changed, allowing for some social media and music streaming sites.

      The memo from a sublinked article suggests that concerns for safety were the reasons the devices were supposed to be locked down. Can't have kids getting on facebook: they might meet up with child molesters and get raped and killed!

      I suspect their concern for avoiding that scenario was mainly "... and then WE'D BE SUED!!!" So perhaps they should have gone the permission slip route and only given out ipads to kids whose parents agreed that the parents are the parents and if anything bad happens to the children in connection with the ipads, or if they caught their kids looking at nudity (and subsequently were utterly scarred for life), that was on the parents and not something they could sue over. This however is not a lesson that school districts ever seem to learn.

    3. Re:well by swamp_ig · · Score: 2

      No permission slip would make any difference to being sued.

    4. Re:well by ebh · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't use Facebook. You'll get pregnant. And die.

    5. Re:well by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2

      I can't see them being locked out of Facebook being the reason. Facebook would be blocked at the proxy, as would all of the interesting parts of the WWW, and any file-sharing protocol or chat app.

      I suspect that the kids just wanted Angry Birds so they could dick about instead of doing work, they weren't allowed, so they fuck up the devices at any opportunity because they're petulant and spoiled little brats, just like all kids. What really needs to happen is teachers, and their lessons, need to be engaging and interesting, and for that you need good teachers. For good teachers, you need good teaching wages. Fundamentally, they should have scrapped this program and given teachers a 20% pay rise across the board instead.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:well by Nyder · · Score: 2

      Well, at least the kids are learning something from their iPads, though it's not the lessons the schools intended.

      Still a valuable lessons to be learned here. You give kids rules, much like adults and they are going to find away around it, and that kids are smarter then the people running the schools.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    7. Re:well by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      Maybe he went to public school. I know I was too busy circumventing the security on the Apple II's to learn basic grammar, or punctuation.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    8. Re:well by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      Sure it could, if done right.

      You can look at it as a contract: "We release this device to the custody of the child *IF* you assume all responsibility and waive any liability on the part of the school board."

      It may not prevent all suits, but normally that would be a binding contract and stop most of them.

    9. Re:well by Feyshtey · · Score: 2

      So your reaction to this is not irritation that kids are hacking free devices that were intended to be solely for their education. It's irritation that school system is even trying to issolate the use of the devices to only education.

      WTF is wrong with you?

      Essentially you're saying that kids will be kids, and lets just give them free shit to do whatever it is they want to do with it.

      How about the cost to repair all the damage that the users do to the devices after cracking them? How about all the aps with malware they can install? Or the viruses (although limiited on IPads)? It doesnt take any skill at all to follow a YouTube video to crack the security. It takes even less to do shit that you should never do because of pure ignorance that makes the device unstable at best, or a doorstop at worst.

      If you want to buy your kid something they choose to fuck up, that's your problem. When you want the state to buy it with tax payer funding, and then fix it because you think your kid should have the freedom to fuck it up, then it's my problem.

      This is all before you even discuss the value of them having the device to further their education to begin with.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    10. Re:well by Feyshtey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First, you cant enforce a contract that relinquishes your rights. If the school board fails to impliment policies that give "reasonable" protection to the child, then the contract is unenforcable. The trick is defining what "reasonable" is. Also, you cannot assume that parents understand the technology or the risks associated. You cannot ask them to enter into a contract without fully disclosing those risks, or the possible punishments. This is particularly important when you propose to use these devices in largely low education, low income populations like L.A., where providing these devices is meant to be a boost to kids who would not otherwise be able to obtain them.

      Second, lets say I refuse to sign the petition slip because I dont want to risk me taking the heat for what my kid does, or maybe because I dont want my kid to have access to a device that allows him or her to do things I do not approve of. Does that mean that the school must have a different curriculum that is paper-based? Or a different set of systems that can only be accessed from school? Does my kid have to do homework differently, turn in homework differently, or take tests differently? Can the school ensure that my child is not at a disadvantage because of these differences?

      How long do you think it would take for a parent of a failing student who didnt have an iPad/laptop to sue the school for unfair treatment. How does the school defend against that?

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    11. Re:well by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >Well, at least the kids are learning something from their iPads, though it's not the lessons the schools intended.

      Back in the day I spent my pre-teens breaking the copy protection on Apple 2 games. Probably not what my parents had in mind, but it was excellent technical training and now I have a well paid career designing chips, crypto systems and related things.

      Breaking into security systems is a superbly educational thing to do. It requires a depth of understanding of the systems not commonly found in text books, it requires analytical thinking and the lessons learned often stick. If you spent your teens doing that, then the low level subjects they teach in school are not going to feel like a major challenge.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    12. Re:well by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      The kids have smart phones. They don't need a locked down ishiny.

      They should do what managers of open access systems have always done - Assume that the used system is dirty and image the computer back to default at suitable times.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  2. I heard from a teacher in NC by sandytaru · · Score: 5, Insightful

    - whose school district had gotten all the kids iPads. She was complaining that the new toys, in conjunction with all the stupid assessments she had to do, had put her weeks behind the curriculum because she had to spend all her time helping her third graders learn to use the tablets. So I'm sure the teachers in CA who got stuck with this are frustrated about this and probably the ones who are now on delay are greatly relieved.

    Personally, I think that money could better be spent on good old fashioned computer labs. A good student PC is a heck of a lot cheaper, and these kids need to learn to type on a real keyboard or else they're going to be at a huge disadvantage compared to their peers who do.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:I heard from a teacher in NC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How about a nook, that costs half as much? Seriously!?!

      It's a stupid idea to start with; technology has nothing on poverty, which is in itself, largely a proxy for parental involvement.

      But, given the American approach of throwing money at the problem, let's throw half as much money for the same ill affect.

      There's nothing "American" about it. It's the same old story: You don't want your kids to be a failure, so you go with a winner. IBM. Microsoft. Apple. It's why the idea that "The Marketplace promotes Excellence" is a myth on the same level as the Tooth Fairy. Not just in the USA and not just in government. Everywhere. Public, private, American, Latvian and so forth.

      Once you have critical mass and formed a positive feedback loop, Nothing Succeeds Like Success. You can charge higher prices, give lousier service, make your own rules, and even buy your own laws and the market will just eat it up, because the bulk of the market is going to go for the "safe" choice even over price or quality.

    2. Re:I heard from a teacher in NC by sandytaru · · Score: 2

      It's not so much a matter of "is your finger on the right key?" but a matter of "are you looking at your monitor, your keyboard, or copying the text of something when you are typing?"

      At minimum, a touch typist needs to be looking at the monitor when they type, and not the keyboard. Someone who is doing data entry will do best when they can look away from the keyboard and type directly from a sheet of paper off to the side, but not everyone is going to be doing data entry so that's not a required skill. By looking at the monitor, however, you're able to catch and correct typos on the fly as well as read through what you've written and adjust before you reach the end of your train of thought.

      For the record, I learned to type fast and furious in Compuserv chat rooms in the 90s, while my high school was still teaching us to type on typewriters. Practice makes perfect.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    3. Re:I heard from a teacher in NC by LordLimecat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Noone uses iPads for any serious amount of data entry or manipulation.

      Their role in business tends to be for shiny-factor, portability, or both. They are somewhat useful as POS units (as those have generally been touchscreen anyways). Thats basically it.

      If you want to train your kids to be cashiers from an early age by getting them involved with iPads @ school, have at it-- just do it on your own dollar.

  3. "They were bound to fail" by Xacid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Kids bypassing security is a total failure for this program? Come onnnn. If anything it's giving them a reason to want to use them more and learn a little something about technology and security. But I guess they're not satisfied unless they have properly trained obedient creatures, not humans with the ability to think for themselves.

    1. Re:"They were bound to fail" by Valpis · · Score: 3

      Yes, one student learns how to bypass the security and the rest just follows the instruction like a sheep

      --
      who shot the cat in the hat to experiment is insane
    2. Re:"They were bound to fail" by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The program was a total failure at conception. There is no benefit to this other than to be able to claim that the school districts new and modern. Imagine how many teachers they could have hired for the cost of this program. I like computers, but they have no place in rudimentary education other than the computer lab.

    3. Re:"They were bound to fail" by Bogtha · · Score: 2

      There is no benefit to this other than to be able to claim that the school districts new and modern.

      What's your basis for this claim? Do you actually know this or are you guessing?

      There's lots of reasons why distributing learning materials electronically has advantages. I shouldn't really need to spell them out on Slashdot. And tablets - particularly iPads - are about as friendly to non-computer users as you can get.

      Now, there may be some very good reasons why this particular rollout was flawed, but the idea of distributing tablets to kids is not inherently flawed. Do you have details on why this particular rollout was flawed?

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    4. Re:"They were bound to fail" by Pikoro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If this program was to replace all those heavy books, or give them access to the grand sum of human knowledge, then they should have gone for a kindle or sony ebook reader. Load the year's books onto it, and allow wifi internet access. Problem solved.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
  4. Good! by davydagger · · Score: 2

    I also hope they find and disable the software that is spying on them.

    the refrence from my snide comment in case anyone thinks its too tinfoil:
    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9159278/Pa._school_district_denies_spying_on_students_with_MacBooks

  5. Just proxy it out at the router. by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's no reason they can't block everything from the network end. Host.deny

    There's no reason to police what the students do at home either. That's just big brother and between the parents and students.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:Just proxy it out at the router. by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 2

      I work at a school district that has deployed iPads. This is exactly what we do. We use the same filter to filter content in computer labs, and to prevent staff members from accessing pornography. Can they get past it? I'm sure they probably can, but students caught doing so violate the acceptable use policy and their AD account is locked out for the duration of the loss of privilege. School administrators can enable and disable student access right from an internal website.

      Before we deploy the iPads, we also make the students return a form signed by the parents that has some pretty specific usage restrictions. It's made clear that students violating the acceptable use policy forfeit access to the device entirely. Failure to turn in the device is treated just like failure to return a book: you get a fine and grades are withheld until the fine is paid or device returned.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
  6. I'm a tech coordinator for an Ohio district by CreepingDeath · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Basically I could have told them this was going to happen because of how iOS is designed. We have about 200 and they don't leave our buildings (most of them are in classroom sets/charging carts) and I'd say at least 5-10 a week have to be factory reset because the kids remove the profile and lock the devices.

    How is it this easy? Well since iOS (Android has this same issue and more, sadly), unlike say, ChromeOS, isn't designed to be managed from an enterprise level. So everything we do with policies can simply be removed by the user. No password required.

    We tried the carrot and stick approach, the main profile contains the WiFi password, which they don't know, so when they remove it the devices drop off the network and are basically useless. This probably stops most of the folks from messing with them too much but we still have a few that just want to watch the world burn.

    However if you GIVE them to the kids, and let them take em home where they can use their own personal WiFi (even worse if they know the password for the school owned wifi) then the carrot is gone. There is little-no incentive for them to leave the iPad's locked down.

    This is why we've stopped buying iPads and started buying ChromeBooks. I hope Apple (and Google's Android group, too) takes note, were far from the only district going this direction.

    1. Re:I'm a tech coordinator for an Ohio district by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Go into the configuration utility go to "Configuration Profiles" -> General -> Security and set it to "Never." After that the only way to remove the profile is to do a factory reset. (Alternatively you could set it to "With Authorization" and set a profile removal password.)

    2. Re:I'm a tech coordinator for an Ohio district by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      So everything we do with policies can simply be removed by the user. No password required.

      I hate to break this to you, but you're a shitty 'tech coordinator.'

      You can lock down the profiles so they can't be removed by anything short of total reset of the iPad, and yes that means that you can't even use an admin password to remove or modify it. You can also configure them to use an http proxy for all internet traffic, again not changeable by the user of the device even with an admin password with reseting the device to factory default.

    3. Re:I'm a tech coordinator for an Ohio district by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      There's no detail in the linked story, but I suspect the "hack" is they're just restoring the iPad in iTunes. The kids probably couldn't care less about the school's wifi network. And if they have a smartphone (which many of them do - the girl in the story owns an iPhone), they could even tether the iPad to it while they're in the school building.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:I'm a tech coordinator for an Ohio district by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's details in the linked story in the linked story. The students had a specific profile setup for them individually which they just erased because they had full rights to do so. This is a non-story unless you want to talk about incompetent IT.

    5. Re:I'm a tech coordinator for an Ohio district by CreepingDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For everyone blasting me this is part of the problem; grant money bought the iPads, no one has money for a MDM.

      Therefore we push profiles with the IOS Configurator, its the best we can mange with basically no money to support them. (though we are looking at the Meraki MDM; its free, so maybe things will improve in that regard)

      Thank your legislators for cutting our budgets to the bone.

      (also FWIW I'm the cisco / windows server / linux guy; one of my tech's does all the iOS stuff. But thanks for assuming I'm a total idiot.)

  7. Re:It took the kids THAT long? by ClassicASP · · Score: 2

    Should have happened within the first 30 minutes after the first iPad was issued out to the first student.

  8. Definitive Dilbert on the issue by gnalre · · Score: 2
    --
    Choose your allies carefully, it is highly unlikely you will be held accountable for the actions of your enemies
  9. thats nothing by nimbius · · Score: 4, Funny

    the analog version of the chemistry E-Book has also been hacked. an enormous toothbrush mustache has been rendered in analog on Marie Curie making her look exactly like hitler...a clear violation of our zero tolerance policy.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  10. Re:It took the kids THAT long? by TWiTfan · · Score: 2

    It probably was hacked within 30 minutes by the more clever students. It just took it a little longer to get around to everyone else.

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  11. How is this a problem? by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    OK, so now the Ipads are more useful, now with FB the kids can better collaborate with their classmates.
    the whole idea of Ipads or any type of tablet was stupid and counter productive to begin with, but the ability to "hack them" does not change that.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  12. Re:Try that at work by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The alternative attitude is what happened recently in my hometown, where a student was nearly suspended for possessing "hacking tools" - a Linux live-cd.

    Part of the purpose of schools is to be a safety net, where irresponsible kids can test their limits and, while not getting away with anything fully, they are shielded from the worst repercussions and are given gentle encouragement that they are not supposed to be doing that. Unfortunately, that attitude doesn't mix with the "freedom is doing anything I want" or the "kids should be imprisoned in schools until they are perfect adults" mentalities that are so popular today, and it's made even more complex (as is everything else) by the ever-expanding community boundaries brought about by modern technology.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  13. Re:It took the kids THAT long? by SJHillman · · Score: 2

    That's how it was with the TI-83's the school distributed to us... a handful of us figured out how to make them do more than just classwork within a few days at most, but it didn't get to the rest of the kids or teachers until near the end of the school year.

    Same shit, different generation.

  14. And??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hacking the iPad is not an issue. The real issue is that an iPad is a very poor instrument for teaching. It's a consumption tool (like a glorified TV). The idiots that approved this were short sighted.
    As others have said. A PC is cheaper and far more powerful, particularly for content creation - where the grey matter is actually stretched.

  15. Giving out iPads is silly by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

    The problems in education in the US are not about the supplies the kids have, and the iPads, while great for publicity, won't have much effect on student achievement.

    The big problems have a lot more to do with:
    - A lack of pre-K education for a lot of kids means that many start about 2-3 years behind. For example, I was one of two students who walked into first grade able to read at all, count, and add. Head Start and similar programs could help with that, but they've never come close to having the funding they'd really need to solve that problem, and parents are often completely unaware that that sort of thing even exists.

    - Teachers are poorly paid compared to other professions requiring similar levels of education, so we don't have our smartest people opting to become teachers. For example, someone who's good at math or science, and good at explaining it to other people, could choose to get an engineering degree and make about $85K a year, or go into teaching and make about $50K a year. Which would you expect them to choose?

    - The school districts that desperately need the best teachers are not the same districts as can afford the best teachers. Teachers, like most people, opt to work for places that pay them well if possible, and that means wealthy suburban districts can get better staff than poor urban or rural districts. But generally speaking, the poor kids are the ones who could most use a really good teacher to give them a chance to not be poor.

    - For students in minority cultures, education is not always seen as a path to financial success, because (certainly historically, and seems to be still at least partially true) educated people in that minority do not necessarily get the jobs they are qualified for. If education isn't a path to success, then many students will be motivated to just muddle through until either they graduate or drop out, because either way they're going to be flipping burgers for a living if they are lucky enough to get a job.

    None of that will be solved with iPads, just like none of that was solved by Apple giving out Apple II's to a lot of schools back in the 1980's.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Giving out iPads is silly by MaWeiTao · · Score: 2

      You make good points, but you're missing the fundamental problem with education in America: the parents. That's the biggest problem I've seen, by far. There are countless early learning programs for the poor, at least in my area and the more widespread problem they face is that they're under utilized. Because few people care enough to sign up for them. No amount of salary increases is going to help teachers if their students don't care to learn, or if they're wasting much of the school day just trying to maintain some semblance of discipline.

      Compounding the problem is the fact that parents who do care get fed up and move out. Or, if they can't manage that they get their kids in private or advanced learning schools. There are some serious cultural problems that need to be addressed, particularly in the inner city, before we can start talking about improving education.

  16. Re:Why iPads in the first place? by TWiTfan · · Score: 2

    Because when something is paid for with grant money, no one gives a shit what it costs. And "iPad" is a lot easier to understand on a grant application than "Obscure tablet that the grant evaluators have probably never heard of."

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  17. Re:My kid by Delusion_ · · Score: 2

    I was in high school when Macintoshes were new; they had a laser printer and several dot matrix printers. Laser printing was more expensive at the time, but the queue was shorter due to less people on it and shorter print times. Our computer lab teacher would watch us, literally right over our shoulders, as we'd try to bypass his security (like you, I think "hack" is too grand a word here) and permissions. By the end of the second day, my two best friends and I and a couple of our other friends all had boot disks with LaswerWriter permissions. The teacher had a great attitude that really fostered learning the technology, and was consistent with him watching over our shoulders while we tried to do things we weren't supposed to be able to do (and in every case I can remember, succeeded): he didn't care as long as you didn't make more work for him by breaking something. He was content to learn what we were up to. We had pretty much carte blanche in the computer lab to do whatever we wanted as long as we were learning something new every day, and we'd write a brief summary report at the end of the week. One day, we learned how to hex edit savegames for some old RPG, using the same sorts of techniques we were using on our C64s at home, but with a proper hex editor rather than a C64 sector editor. They were saved in something weird like octal reversed digits instead of the standard reversed hex or forward hex. I can't recall which game it was, only that it had multiple windows up. A quick Google image search doesn't show me anything familiar.

  18. Re:My kid by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    It sounds like the school districts (either because their IT staff are monumental idiots, or, probably more likely, because nobody budgeted in anything for "device management" because 'Hey, iPads are easy!') were just using Exchange activesync restrictions, which are... more or less worth what you pay. Delete the (probably boring) school email account, and away you go. By Fucking Design.

    The various Apple-blessed 'MDM' services (either 3rd party contract types, or in-house on the ridiculous hardware that Apple calls 'servers' these days) are incrementally more robust; but iPads are fundamentally aimed at 'user-is-owner' scenarios, with Apple occasionally throwing a crumb and a contemptuous sneer in the direction of anything else.

    (Incidentally, that's one thing that surprises me about 'WinRT'. Microsoft, fuck man, You Could Have Had The Tablet With Native Active Directory Support. But you didn't. You voluntarily removed that feature. Are you totally insane? That's one area, at least, where you could have blown the pitiful excuses for 'device management' in the competing ecosystems to hell and back; but no. Not a default, not even an option you can buy... What were you thinking?)

  19. Re:My kid by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

    iPads are fundamentally aimed at 'user-is-owner' scenarios

    In most cases they appear to aimed more squarely at the 'Apple is owner' scenario.

  20. Honest Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What exactly do the students(what age/grade?) do with these devices(iPads/Chrome Books)?
    How does the device improve/aid learning over more traditional teaching tools(I presume books vs. ereaders)?
    How much more does the technology program cost than the previous traditional methods?

    I'm presently watching my "child" attending university. I am noticing a significant, near massive, loss in learning productivity due to online books, multiple guess homework assignments, and tests. There are at least six different sites for the various functions that all look and behave differently, all have a significant fee attached and all provide little to no value over a book and a test paper. While I am seeing a serious decline in their learning, I am seeing a massive increase in expenditure to access their book online, to gain access to homework assignments, to gain access to the testing site, to have and use a "clicker" in order to "participate" in class(required for grade) by responding in a massive online multiple guess(MOMG) fashion to the prof's questions.and more. Yet, despite the obvious decline in learning, the kids(not just mine) think "it's great because I can do my homework on my phone!" (and fail).

    All the while, the state university system is announcing the eminent implementation of all online degrees. They see it as a major source of revenue and a means of significantly increasing their enrollments without increasing facilities cost. "It's going to be so totally awesome for learning and for the kids". BULLCRAP!

  21. Re:My kid by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    True, true. I really should have said that Apple is the owner; but makes it very difficult for its vassals to enforce any restrictions on their vassals. Everyone is supposed to be a direct vassal of Apple, with only the most token support given to situations where somebody wants to farm out a large quantity of iPads to people under their organizational control.

  22. ^This by globaljustin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Technology in the classroom...all of it...it's just **tools to teach**

    Anyone who things technology can reduce staff budget or allow larger class sizes is smoking crack.

    A professionally trained, well-paid *human* teacher is absolutely the only thing that educates a child.

    Everything else is just a tool.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:^This by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only?

      No.

      Lots of people learn in different ways. Especially if that professionally trained teacher is still a bad teacher.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:^This by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bad teachers are no justification for iPads. Either way, dont expect me to pay for your child to get tools that are not proven to do anything but entertain and have been around for all of 5 years.

      You cant even draw the parallel to the advent of computers: that was a whole new field. Noone in their right mind would claim that the future of technology looks like "iPads".

    3. Re:^This by leereyno · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A professionally trained, well-paid human teacher eh?

      If this is true, then how come our schools are so awful?

      We the people have been throwing more and more money at schoolteachers, and requiring ever-increasing levels of training and education to maintain their license to teach, yet the educational achievments of our students have been flatlined for 40 years, and have even fallen dramatically in some districts.

      Meanwhile home schooled children, taught by parents with no formal training as teachers, outperform government-schooled students so often that the high achieving home schooler has become a cultural meme, if not a cliche.

      Charter schools have also been able to deliver superior results at lower cost.

      No, I don't think we need professionally trained well paid teachers. What we need are voucher programs, more home schooling, teachers and schools that have to compete, the utter end to tenure of any kind, and pay/bonuses based on classroom performance instead of seniority. Opening up the teaching profession to anyone with a bachelor's degree and a demonstrated knowledge of a subject (english, math, science) would be even better. There is no evidence that having a master's degree in early childhood education helps someone teach 3rd graders how to multiply. Let those who want to teach and who are good at it take the field, and get rid of parasitic space takers for whom a teaching job is a state-paid sinecure.

      Most of all, outlaw public sector unions so that groups like the NEA aren't able to block real education reform.

      --
      Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
    4. Re:^This by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Noone in their right mind would claim that the future of technology looks like "iPads".

      Except for all the technology companies.

      And Star Trek.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    5. Re:^This by ranton · · Score: 2

      A professionally trained, well-paid *human* teacher is absolutely the only thing that educates a child.

      HAHAHA. That joke made my morning.

      While I'm not saying teachers are unimportant, but are you actually saying that children are unable to learn without supervision? I remember writing my own computer games half a decade before my first programming class in college. And I am pretty sure no one taught me math from the fourth grade (when my parents started buying me textbooks) until sophomore year in college. Our teaching colleges are so poor that I couldn't even ask questions to enhance my independent learning because even recently graduated high school math teachers rarely know calculus (and I'm talking basic stuff, I wasn't a genius or anything).

      I did learn a great deal from teachers in other subjects, such as rhetoric, but they were the exception to the rule.

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    6. Re:^This by fightinfilipino · · Score: 2

      A professionally trained, well-paid human teacher eh?

      If this is true, then how come our schools are so awful?

      We the people have been throwing more and more money at schoolteachers, and requiring ever-increasing levels of training and education to maintain their license to teach, yet the educational achievments of our students have been flatlined for 40 years, and have even fallen dramatically in some districts.

      this is a MYTH.

      this is nothing but a red herring argument foisted by fiscal conservatives to continue to destroy the public school system and to concentrate resources in elite public schools. for a nation whose economic engine relies on advanced knowledge and high literacy, we should be treasuring our teachers. teaching should be one of the highest-paid professions, and people should be beating down the doors to try to become a teacher.

      instead, people have bought the line that teachers are "overpaid" and don't bother to realize that teachers earn incredibly low salaries for the education and professional level of their work. that is insane.

      at the very least, please stop repeating the blatant lie that teachers are overpaid. there could be nothing farther from the truth.

    7. Re:^This by Solandri · · Score: 2

      instead, people have bought the line that teachers are "overpaid" and don't bother to realize that teachers earn incredibly low salaries for the education and professional level of their work. that is insane.

      You're both right. Teacher salaries are low, yet the U.S. spends more per student on education than any other country on the planet.

      People think teacher salary = education spending. It isn't. Far from it. If you look at the latest educational expenditure stats (page 8 of the state level tables), you see that our schools spend $8649 per student on salaries, wages, and benefits. If the average class size is a modest 25, that's $216,255/yr per class being paid to educators. If the average teacher salary is $50k (call it $70k with benefits), who is the rest of the money going to?.

      Obviously some of the extra is necessary (bus drivers, janitors, basic administration, etc). But from the research I've done, the bulk of the extra $145k goes to administrators. They've managed to worm their way into a position where they're in charge of how the money is allocated. If the budget is ever increased, they allocate most of it to themselves. If the budget is ever cut, they pass on the cuts to the teachers and rely on the teacher's union to stir up a firestorm about how we aren't spending enough money on education, when in fact we're spending more than any other country. Both you and OP have been suckered in by their ruse - thinking that teacher salary = education spending. When in fact teacher salary = education spending - administration overhead and other costs.

      Incidentally, I should point out that the "teachers aren't paid enough" argument runs counter to the interest of current teachers. If your reasoning is that higher salaries will attract better teachers, then the logical course of action is to fire the current teachers and hire completely different teachers at the higher salaries. Retaining the current batch of teachers and simply increasing their salary won't change anything (other than improving the teachers' standard of living).

  23. Re:It took the kids THAT long? by sjames · · Score: 2

    It probably took the students 10 minutes to kill the lock-down and the school a week to notice.

  24. iPads in the Enterprise and Classroom by mschaffer · · Score: 2

    iPads are not designed for the Enterprise, let alone for the classroom...
    Teachers don't need more gadgets getting in the way of teaching...
    What were they thinking?
    Teachers need to teach, not be the first-line of the Help Desk.