Hackers, Gamers and Tech Workers: The UK Needs You For a New Cyber Army

girlmad writes "The UK government is looking to recruit IT experts for a cyber reserves army, which will help it defend against the threat of cyber warfare. 'This is an exciting opportunity for internet experts in industry to put their skills to good use for the nation, protecting our vital computer systems and capabilities,' said the Ministry of Defence. The reserve unit will cover a range of military cyber tactics, including a strike capability to augment the UK's military prowess."

Comments

"Gamers"

[i kan reed]

Since gamers today are basically anyone who has the utterly amazing skill of being able to get bored long enough to reach for a CD, how about we leave them off the listed of request people, thanks.

Re:"Gamers"

[schneidafunk]

Probably planning ahead, operating drones & killer robots will basically be a video game.

Re:"Gamers"

[someone1234]

Think of the grinders! Some people are able to play the same game for years, almost 24/7. Don't confuse casual gamers with the devoted.

Re:"Gamers"

[Qzukk]

Don't confuse casual gamers with the devoted.

As someone whose mother has clocked more time in bejeweled than I have in all my JRPGs combined, which is which?

Re:"Gamers"

[Anonymous Coward]

In my day, we would spend months adjusting DOS drivers so we could catch a glimpse of a game in wonderful CGA color. Why, the games would ship with bandages and a coupon for a free transfusion at the local hospital from all the blood lost from changing soundcard IRQ jumpers. /offmylawn

Re:"Gamers"

[WillAffleckUW]

As someone whose mother has clocked more time in bejeweled than I have in all my JRPGs combined, which is which?

The one with a job is a casual gamer.

The one without a job is "devoted".

Re:"Gamers"

[AHuxley]

The UK clandestine services need the 'gamer' sockpuppets for relevant slang to shape the public back into a more Anglosphere way of thinking when needed.
Just as you need the right tech touch for sockpuppets on slashdot to contain thinking on the latest NSA crypto news.

Gamer's Guild?

[dwulf]

Just like the video games.

Re:Gamer's Guild?

[plover]

If they don't call them the Cybermen, I'm not joining.

Re:Gamer's Guild?

[plover]

As long as I get to wave a plunger around and yell EX-TERM-IN-ATE as part of my job duties, I suppose I could.

Re:Gamer's Guild?

[uninformedLuddite]

You could be the janitor?

Sting Operation

[Freshly Exhumed]

Riiiiiighttttt... they're asking all "potential troublemakers" to come on in and get on their big, happy, new list. Just wait, some day the long knives will come out.

Re:Sting Operation

[intermodal]

Meanwhile, we already know they don't follow orders and on average, are not physically able enough to join the actual military.

I don't think they thought this one through in any context except getting a list of these people and their information.

Re:Sting Operation

[cold fjord]

Perhaps you could expand a bit on your thinking there? Because of a procurement scandal, Britain has no enemies?

Re:Sting Operation

[AHuxley]

The UK really wants a list of people who can hack, send in their CV and have a deep understanding of forums/games/web 2.0.
The kinds of honey trap and other compromising online 'friendships' would be a historically fitting result long term.
For that kind of direct operation you need the flow of slang, creativity and seduction.

Re:Sting Operation

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. Do not trust any organisation affiliated with the UK state!

The UK cannot be trusted at all.

LOL ...

[gstoddart]

Wow, I don't envy anybody the job of sifting through that mountain of applicants who are all self professed l337 hax0rs.

As Grouch Marx said, I donâ(TM)t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member -- and this group is likely going to self-select for some strange people.

Re:LOL ...

[Ravaldy]

Like any job opportunity, you weed out a great % just by the resume. Once you find a few viable candidates the rest of the resumes get filed and reopened if need be. This situation isn't unique to this job opportunity. I used to supervise in a call centre and a simple $12/hr job would get hundreds sometime thousands of applications.

Re:LOL ...

[Bob the Super Hamste]

I am pretty sure I have dealt with some of these people. We had a third party security auditor come in and do an audit of our system and I got the job of baby sitting him and he didn't seem to know his head from his ass. Even with spoon feeding him information on machine layout and configuration he had issues while being physically connected to the same switch as the machines he was auditing. He was little more that a professional script kiddy and to ensure that he could do his "job" I had to make it easier for him to evaluate the system by disabling encryption, disabling firewalls, disabling certificate based authentication, etc on the system until by the end it was basically an unsecured system but at least he was able to do his audit to find vulnerabilities in the various components which was the purpose of the audit.

Nothing to do with gamers`

[Anonymous Coward]

The original announcement had no mention of gamers. Looks like it's just The Inquirer making crap up.

the recruitment page itself

[CBravo]

The Cyber Reserve offers a challenge that you can get nowhere else.

ROTFLOL

Re:the recruitment page itself

[WillAffleckUW]

Scottish.

If you were a Scot, you'd refer to yourself as a Scot, a group of Scots as Scots, and describe a group of Scots as Scottish.

Scotch is a drink, made with peat based on how drink barrels used to be sealed.

Re:the recruitment page itself

[user32.ExitWindowsEx]

Scotch is a drink

...and a tape.

Hackers?

[Wowsers]

If you're good enough to work in this so called "cyber security", bare in mind the crimes of NSA and GCHQ against the entire planet, you'd be better off being on the good guys side, the side of everyday people.

Re:Hackers?

[CheshireDragon]

Then get busted for terrorism if caught? yeah, I'd rather do it 'legally'. err, I should say 'with permission'.

Re:Hackers?

[Wowsers]

What I meant was write better encryption for the masses. Change the email system so emails are not all sent like postcards. Nothing illegal in that.

Re:Hackers?

[AHuxley]

If you can 'think' about the acts and orders given you will not make it past the contractors who do the profiling and never move up the interview chain.
The UK has always needed to invite in the best and most creative, people with math, language skills or a who have had a deep immersion in other countries cultures.
Looking back the UK has the cold war history of been able to project, out think and shape many other larger nations military and political actions.
Apart from total Soviet penetration, Argentina and a few other staff issues the smart and creative hiring vision has worked well for the UK.
The other option is to go with safe profiled contractors, the unimaginative order taking personality, the unquestioning , the dull, the controllable, the end justifies the means sockpuppet types.
Many countries go with that safe option and find they are doing ok. The downside is never really been able to out think or out smart or predict much of anything and always been exposed long term.

Dear UK

[Lithdren]

Dear UK,

Chinese hackers in your system? Some troublemaker from the inner city poking around in a highly classified file network? Just dont like what some guy from the internet is doing on your home page?

For the low low price of 1 billion dollars, I will give you the solution to your problems! DISCLAMER: By reading below you are utilizing my advancted technique and agree to make payment in full to myself. Thank you.

Step 1:

Unplug the machine.

Problem solved. I will be expecting my payment shortly. Thank you.

American perspective

[girlintraining]

Well, I'm in, as long as you have a job waiting for me in the private sector too. This country is a sinking ship. We aren't willing to pay top dollar for talent, instead going for saturating the market with immigrant visas to drive labor prices down. We've got a crazy patent and copyright system that all but eliminates opportunity for startups. If signing up for some 'cyber reserve army' is what's needed to have a job that pays the bills, good health care, and a home in a low-crime area, I'm not gonna waste any time... I'll pack my bags and be there inside a month.

Right now, our own 'cyber army' seems more intent on considering its own citizens the enemy; At least from what I've seen in the UK they have similar levels of surveillance but are far more subdued in their... zeal... for punishing people caught in their dragnets. It's not much, but it's something. Taken as a whole, I think it would be a better quality of life to be a British citizen than a US one. Plus, they still have a middle class.

Re:American perspective

[dmbasso]

That's exactly how the system works, make people dependent of "a job that pays the bills", even if that job is against what we agree are human rights. And while you are just a small gear in this machine, happily turning while the machine hums idly, don't complain when someone takes control of it and uses it as what it was really designed for. 1984 ftw.

Re:American perspective

[girlintraining]

That's exactly how the system works, make people dependent of "a job that pays the bills", even if that job is against what we agree are human rights. And while you are just a small gear in this machine, happily turning while the machine hums idly, don't complain when someone takes control of it and uses it as what it was really designed for. 1984 ftw.

Pardon me for taking the practical approach of, upon seeing the incredible wealth inequity of this country, far worse than countries in Africa dominated by warlords, even, deciding that it's a lost cause and opting to leave and suggest others do the same. I mean, dying or starving to death for the noble cause of staying where I was born is nice and all, but my activism has some practical limits; I don't wanna die to be part of somebody else's political statement.

Re:American perspective

[CheshireDragon]

well said ...Take me with you.

Re:American perspective

[dmbasso]

[...] dying or starving to death for the noble cause [...]

I'm pretty sure that 90%* or more of people here are far from that risk. People like you and me have the option to chose where we're going to work, the only matter is how much you're willing to be paid. I rather have a lower income and be sure I'm a positive element in society than the other way around. That's not "somebody else's political statement", that's my political statement, because I want to live in a better society. If your world-view is "it's a lost cause, let me make it worse", than no, no pardon given. And please reflect more about it, because you are part of the problem.

* statistics out-of-my-ass

Re:American perspective

[girlintraining]

I'm sorry, you must be mistaken, the jobs are in Britain.

Unemployment rate, March 2013
Britain: 7.7%
United States: 7.6%

National health care
Britain: Available to all citizens. Emergency care for all, regardless of legal status. No personal cost, paid for by taxes.
United States: Some people meeting income or age requirements may qualify, for a fee. In an overhaul of the system soon to be deployed, there will be fewer requirements, but there will still be a fee.

Intentional homicide rate, 2012
Britain: 1.2 per capita
United States: 4.7 per capita ... Yeah. I'm definately mistaken here.

Re:American perspective

[bzipitidoo]

upon seeing the incredible wealth inequity of this country

But taking a job in "security", as they define it, won't help with that. When the security apparatus gets used to secure the elite against the masses, what then? Why do you think they're so hot for more security? It's the very inequality they caused that scares them. The whole thing is a wrong turn for any nation. The political hacks they dig up to run these agencies have a lamentable tendency to be really dumb about certain things. They are too easily swayed by copyright extremists, prone to thinking they really can win the war against piracy. They will dash off to try to enforce some impossible law, and keep trying as long as the legislature funds them, no matter how often people point out the impossiblities.

Security in software has been justly criticised for years now. MS Windows is so difficult to secure for many political reasons. MS keeps dabbling in security for them against "pirates" (their own users), to the detriment of security for users. Remember Windows Genuine Advantage? Time and again they've rolled out new features that throw security out for convenience. Autoplay for CDs. ActiveX. Excel macros.

Then you have the spooks demanding that software engineers add back doors, and watering down the strength of encryption to breakable levels. There was that whole idiotic export regime against anything that terrorists might be able to use to communicate more securely. Way back in the early 1990s, you had to swear that you were a US citizen before you could download the Netscape browser with the stronger encryption. In the click through agreement, they demanded that you not export it from the US, under penalty of law.

I really dislike how security has become such an overriding concern. Seems nearly everything can be considered a security issue. Patches are divided into security patches, and all others. For many problems, turning them into a security issue is the wrong approach. Prevent bugs, and a lot of security will take care of itself.

But I suppose it's the easiest way to get funding. Exploring space and doing pure science are so pre 9/11.

Re:American perspective

[dmbasso]

Nice strawman[1]. [...] Now, your poor use of cognitive errors aside[2]

[1] there's no strawman here
[2] quite ironic :)

Because you're what's left.

I've never been in the US, and I have no plans to go there.

In other news, it may be shocking for you, but not everyone wants to turn everything into a political cause.

It may be shocking to you, but ignoring an issue is a political action, regardless of you being aware or not.

if we don't focus our energy we accomplish nothing. [...] You can't be a part of every cause, you have to pick a few and focus on those, otherwise you won't accomplish much of anything, anywhere.

Yep, I agree on that.

Now, if you want to go down with the ship, you go man. I'll be on the life boat floating off thattaway, noting that your noble sacrifice gave me a place to put my feet up.

That's where your analogy breaks, you're not only floating away, when you say "If signing up for some 'cyber reserve army' is what's needed" you are actually contributing to sink the ship... not the one you left, but the one you're about to board.

Re:American perspective

[mikael]

You haven't read the latest news reports:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9819096/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/1000-knife-crime-victims-in-london-each-month-shocking-new-figures-show-8681511.html
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/12/workers-deepest-cuts-real-wages-ifs
http://rt.com/op-edge/osborne-scheme-property-market-crash-434/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2438168/Half-maternity-wards-turn-away-women-labour-Report-says-lives-risk-units-bursting-seams.html

The UK is going the same way as the USA. Everyone is fighting and clawing each other to get that "home in the catchment area of the good school" unless they can afford a private school. Which by the way is only affordable to company directors and senior government employees. Anyone who can't achieve that goal has no option but emigration.

Just a room in the edgier parts of London rents for £200/week.

Re:American perspective

[xaxa]

The UK is going the same way as the USA. Everyone is fighting and clawing each other to get that "home in the catchment area of the good school" unless they can afford a private school. Which by the way is only affordable to company directors and senior government employees. Anyone who can't achieve that goal has no option but emigration.

Just a room in the edgier parts of London rents for £200/week.

Don't exaggerate, it casts doubt on the rest of your argument. A room in a crap bit of London is more like £100/week, maybe only £70 for a grotty place. Private school isn't as expensive as you suggest either -- I went to one (my dad taught there, so we had a big discount), and there were plenty of children whose families weren't especially rich. They just chose not to have things like satellite TV, fancy foreign holidays, etc, in order to afford the fees.

Having said that, there are deep problems with the cost of housing (and the fact houses are investments before being residences), the focus on financial services (and services generally), and the direction the current government is taking us. If I didn't enjoy my job, I'd be looking to emigrate.

Re:American perspective

[dmbasso]

Meaningful contribution:
- giving support for health care systems, etc.
Sinking the ship:
- giving support for installing spyware on citizens' computers.

If you can't see how the later is prone to be abused then you're really naive. But your signature shows that's not the case, and I can only laugh at the hypocrisy.

Re:American perspective

[Gonoff]

You haven't read the latest news reports:

Just a room in the edgier parts of London rents for £200/week.

Despite the best offers of recruitment agencies in the past, I have never worked in London. I am currently as far south as I can tolerate - not far from Birmingham. London is somewhere you visit on holiday or travel through. It is the part of the UK that makes visitors from the USA feel most at home about crime levels, price gouging, drugs, unfriendliness and heavy policing.

Get a clue about the UK. London is in the remote south away from most of the country.

Re:American perspective

[girlintraining]

If you can't see how the later is prone to be abused then you're really naive. But your signature shows that's not the case, and I can only laugh at the hypocrisy.

If you can't see how people who are starving really don't give a flying fuck through a rolling doughnut why job security matters more than dying in place over some idealized worldview, then you're really dumb. But your username d(u)mbasso shows that's not the case, so I can only laugh at your pathetically small penis.

Re:American perspective

[dmbasso]

If you can't see how people who are starving [...]

I'll not repeat myself.

But your username d(u)mbasso shows that's not the case,

Nice ad hominem! :) I guess that's what's left when you don't have actual arguments...

so I can only laugh at your pathetically small penis.

... no, you can always go further down! :)

Re:USA?

[i kan reed]

They'll meet you halfway. Just go to the middle of the Atlantic, and tread water until they show up.

Want to get the hackers on your side?

[Hentes]

Want to get the hackers on your side? Create a legal environment where whitehats can work safely. Put bounties on your critical systems. Suddenly all the unruly script kiddies will work for you, testing your security.

Re:Want to get the hackers on your side?

[benjfowler]

Mod parent up.

America (and the West) made a terrible mistake in the early Nineties with the Operation Sundevil busts, criminalizing white-hats and grey-hats, at the behest of greedy private businesses, when what they SHOULD have been doing, is doing what the Chinese are doing right now -- turning those bright kids around to serve their interests of their country. The Chinese have turned hacking into a national sport and have cultivated a massive talent pool ready to tap when needed.

We are being ruled by venal, sort-sighted fucking idiots.

Re:Want to get the hackers on your side?

[AHuxley]

The NSA and GCHQ always tried to project a very public vision of just that. Good pay, an expectation of foreign work, languages, "unlimited" funding and tech even during budget cuts in other gov/mil areas.
Legal, clean, smart, good pay long term and great advancement options.
That was hoped to out do anything the Soviet Union could offer poor or under appreciated staff. Blackmail attempts could be reported.
In theory the public image held together over many years, many whistleblowers, authors and political insights.

Why would we want to help surpress freedom?

[WillAffleckUW]

I'm just asking why we would want to help suppress freedom in the UK?

And by we, I mean the half of my friends who hold UK citizenship.

Re:USA?

[scubamage]

You know, if we put that out there to the US' population as a whole, I bet we could improve our country's average IQ by around 40 points.

Re:USA?

[i kan reed]

Pre or post re-normalization given average shift?

The devil in the details.

[s.petry]

From the source, and I'll add some commentary.

We are seeking to recruit from three areas: regular personnel leaving the service; current and former reservists; and individuals with no previous military service

In other words, they take anyone.

As well as employing reserves under current terms and conditions of service, the Cyber Reserve will be running a pilot scheme to evaluate innovative and inclusive approaches to recruiting, training, and employment.

Emphasis mine, but I think that's enough to question what you are getting into.

* possess verifiable exceptional cyber skills (*)

* be aged 18 or over

* be a UK or Commonwealth Citizen

* have lived in the UK for the last 5 years

* be able to commit to the minimum annual training

* be willing to undergo and pass a security clearance process

* use spare time and weekends in order to support defence’s cyber security mission

Nothing too odd here, but it appears that you are going to working for free. Also, "cyber skills" really means squat. I'm sure they will give you a test...

The Cyber Reserve offers a challenge that you can get nowhere else.

Except for the US, the current UK version of NSA, the current version of the German NSA, the Italian version of the NSA, etc.. etc.. blah blah and yes, even Russia has one of those. Not unique, and only challenging to your morals in most cases.

It would be cool if nobody in the UK signed up, but I know that the UK plays on patriotism and "terror" as much as the USA does. So the race is full speed for who is the biggest dickhead country, the US or UK. Good luck over there across the pond.

Re:The devil in the details.

[xaxa]

I know that the UK plays on patriotism and "terror" as much as the USA does.

Not quite. (And that's a British "not quite", i.e. a polite not at all.) You have to be very, very careful when being patriotic in Britain. There's a risk that you'll be seen as uneducated at best, nationalist / fascist at worst.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7608125/England-least-patriotic-country.html

From the first paragraph -- I can't tell you when St George's Day is, except it's April. The story is he killed a dragon, but I don't know why that links him to England. My idea of patriotism is far more about ideals -- e.g. historic laws -- than specific symbols, so it's not easy to represent.

Re:The devil in the details.

[AHuxley]

Yes sounds like the language skills/time to enter an online community, charm to get near the admins, have the code skills to over and run a web 2.0/forum site.
An IP trap/tracking and reshaping of the message back to busy work or to get close to admins/coders.
Spare time and weekends sounds like dedicated sockpuppet work to inject a long term 'story' on the benefits of war or minimising any bad press once 'reality' sets in.
Expect to see many more careful crafted comments by longterm sockpuppet 'names' vs a flood of AC junk.

Re:The devil in the details.

[s.petry]

I didn't say that the Brit's fell for the patriotism rhetoric as easily as Americans, I said the Government plays the card with the same frequency.

"Reserves"

[Kjella]

So what are you going to do, drop by a few days each year for reserve training and if you're ever called into action you'll be issued your standard script kiddie pack? Hand a bunch of guys semi-automatic rifles and they'll be a decent fighting force but I don't see "cyberwarriors" functioning the same way...

Restaffing

[sl4shd0rk]

Sounds like the UK is trying to restaff GHCQ with anyone who will take the job and young enough to be assimil^H^H^H trained correctly.

Re:USA?

[interval1066]

Yeah, well, I picture a Benny Hill type leading this "army of hackers", so get off your high horse. Or we'll nuke you.

Re:USA?

[scubamage]

Especially considering that to get into "cyber command" you have to have a squeaky clean background (which usually means you lack some of the rogue-ish characteristics that often make the best security experts), and most of the offensive security firms, well, let's just say that they will find you. You don't apply to them.

Security Clearance = Criminal Activity

[HansKloss]

What's today is being considered "legal" by the current regime, tomorrow might be serious criminal offense.

Governments are Crowd Funded. Open Source Them.

[VortexCortex]

Well, I'm not sure about the effectiveness of this motive. What I think we need is an open source replacement for such "cyber army". As a US resident, if our government decided to involve citizens I'd sign up and help teach folks how to it secure their systems for free. Hell, I've voluneered at community centers already to do just that.

With a bit of state funding we could set up "crackathons" where government and businesses and citizens cooperated to test the security of our online infrastructures. Companies could pridefully display, "Withstood nations best hacker league for 3 hours!"... or maybe not... At least the bugs would get discovered (and fixed) and we could strengthen our "cyber defense" without criminalizing citizens. I mean, hackers are folks who love technology. If the governments want to have better "cyber capabilities" they need to decriminalize responsibly reported (or even accidental) penetration testing, and engage the populous. It's the information age... Shouldn't they be breeding better cyber soldiers, instead of stifling the pool from which they hope to hire?

The UK is being fucking daft: It's like outlawing art, then putting out a call for artists. Please fix your shit first, governments, you're putting us all at "cyber risk".

I really don't think we need "intelligence" agencies. Our citizens, militaries and police forces are mighty enough to fend off any threat to "national security" without any "intelligence" info whatsoever. The personal privacy rent is too damn high!

Re:USA?

[hermitdev]

It might also solve the obesity problem. Hell, at least there'll be some exercise involved.

Citizenship

[g0bshiTe]

Is this only for Britons or can anyone apply?

Re:USA?

[scubamage]

Or they know you exist, but they can't pin anything on you. Sort of like how we know China is sponsoring the hacking of American assets, but we can't pin anything directly on them.

Paria's NOW

[Mister Liberty]

Blacklist the agency, and anyone assoiciated with it.
Name names, publish, leak, blow whistles.

They Should Do Like the Americans

[twmcneil]

Why don't they just arrest the people they want, charge them with 50 gazillion stupid "crimes" and then offer the "applicant" a plea deal in return for their cooperation? Just like we do here in the States.

Re:They Should Do Like the Americans

[AHuxley]

It gets politically embarrassing in open court, makes the most tame press report and is optically counter productive long term. Better just to politically shape/sideline or discredit the messenger via tame third parties in the shadows.
ie the UK has moved beyond the "charge them with 50 gazillion stupid "crimes" idea.
The US is still trying to understand the total benefits that the more charming and advanced UK method offers.

Meanwhile in Russia...

[ElusiveJoe]

Russia has already planned for "cyber army" of its own. Except, the only task for poor dumb 18-year olds is astoturfing. You know, making posts about glorious Putin and throwing shit at his numerous enemies (practically anyone, who is not a brain-dead redneck or a criminal) at forums, blogs and news sites. It all started in China, and now more and more political "elites" try to enlist their propaganda soldiers in order to save and prolong their wealth, power and heritage.

So, it's UK time now.

Re:All the research in CS goes to waste...

[tibman]

If the research results in something tangible, i think it would be used.

Come!

[Anonymous Coward]

Help defend a country run by a government of crooks and fascists! ...No thanks.

captcha: unmoved (sounds about right)