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Adults Make Riskier, More Inconsistent Decisions As They Get Older, Study Finds

schliz writes "People aged over 65 make poorer financial decisions and more inconsistent choices than younger individuals with the same IQ, an international research group has found. The study (abstract) had 135 healthy participants aged 12-90 make a series of decisions: for example, choosing between gaining $5 and the chance to win $20 in a lottery. On average, over-65s earned 26-39% less than all other age groups, including adolescents — a finding that could partially explain their susceptibility to problem gambling and scams."

45 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. They've got money to burn by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and they have to get rid of it somehow.

    1. Re:They've got money to burn by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OR, they're more worried about fiscal security at the end of their lives, and fear of things like being shoved in a crappy nursing home and having all their possessions sold off frightens them into taking risks they wouldn't otherwise consider.

      Not all people over 65 are rich, you know; fact is, most are quite the opposite.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:They've got money to burn by ebusinessmedia1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "On average, over-65s earned 26-39% less than all other age groups, including adolescents — a finding that could partially explain their susceptibility to problem gambling and scams."

      Might this have something to do with the fact that age discrimination is ripe in the workplace. Try landing a well-paying corporate gig if you are over 60, no matter your skill set. It's nigh impossible. And, with decreasing job opportunities for workers over 60, one can imagine that some significant minority of them become more desperate to the point where they begin to consider irrational alternatives to making ends meet. Of course, this doesn't eliminate the fact that very senior individuals - some with excess money to burn, use that money to fill the ever-increasing, yawning gap of boredom and disconnection in their lives brought on by the social isolation of the elderly in our culture. So, I think this is more of a structural problem.

    3. Re:They've got money to burn by yagu · · Score: 3, Informative

      ... Might this have something to do with the fact that age discrimination is ripe^W rife in the workplace ...

      FTFY

    4. Re:They've got money to burn by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lot of that isolation is self enforced. Of course no one wants to visit great-grandma when she just wants to scream racist gibberish about the president and homophobic crap about your cousins. Old people often have beliefs that are simply not compatible with living in a modern society. You can't take them into public if you fear they may call your waiter the N word or go on a tirade about the jews when you are trying to get groceries.

    5. Re:They've got money to burn by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My (german) grandmother has advanced alzheimer's, and is has reverted pretty much to her childhood. On a good day, she's in her 20's (which covers the period from 1939-1945). She has been known to wax poetical about Hitler, and has interesting ideas about homosexuals, gypsies, and the jews.

      I still visit her. I leave my girlfriend at home when I visit her, and smile politely when she tries to introduce me to men she knows (knew back then). One time, she tried to hook me up with my uncle. At family events, my GF is "a good friend who didn't have anybody to visit" for the benefit of my grandmother. You may choose to sweep the elderly under the rug, I choose not to. We can still be compassionate in how we treat them, and there are constructive ways to deal with people who hold beliefs that we disagree with.

    6. Re:They've got money to burn by bitt3n · · Score: 3, Informative

      OR, they're more worried about fiscal security at the end of their lives, and fear of things like being shoved in a crappy nursing home and having all their possessions sold off frightens them into taking risks they wouldn't otherwise consider.

      The study says fogies prefer less risk.

      Compared to other age groups, older adults tended to prefer to lock in guaranteed earnings over gambling on a bigger win.

      Now you can turn your theory around to make it about how the poor elderly are fearful of losing what little they have etc. etc., should work just as well for you.

    7. Re:They've got money to burn by macraig · · Score: 4, Informative

      You didn't interpret even TFS correctly: the "earnings" were from the game to which the participants were subjected. It nothing at all to do with their employment prospects.

    8. Re:They've got money to burn by Dr.+Sheldon+Cooper · · Score: 2

      You can't take them into public if you fear they may call your waiter the N word or go on a tirade about the jews when you are trying to get groceries.

      I have had both of these things happen to me on more than one occasion. Each time it was as if the world went in to slow motion and I could not get my mother out of the area fast enough. At one point in a particularly awkward situation I seriously thought someone was going to punch my 73-year-old mother in the face. No matter how many times I try to explain to her that she MUST stop speaking that way, she just doesn't seem to get it, or she just doesn't care.

      --
      Bazinga.
    9. Re:They've got money to burn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not all people over 65 are rich, you know; fact is, most are quite the opposite.

      Your "soap line" America where the elderly eat dog food is a fiction that exists in the minds of dupes that swallow the lamentations and whining of pressure groups. The US elderly are the wealthiest class of people in the history of the species. They've voted themselves a nice suite of bennies to offset the cost of their fifth wheels, boats and cabins. Today, as in Oct. 1, 2013, they've managed to bridle their grand-kids to fund even more healthcare; a cost they did not pay for their own elders.

      Erratic financial decisions are a symptom of excessive disposable wealth.

      Dude, i am as pissed about what the baby boomers have done to this nation as any other person not in that generation, but seriously, stop being an asshole. It is not a myth that their are many poor to lower middle class folks (particularly women and minority) folks over 65 that have to worry greatly about how they are going to end their days. I am only 45 and doing decently and I am panicked about it, and my poor mother is doubly so (while my rich asshole father is happily frittering his days away and donating to tea party assholes).

      A lot of folks over 65 were just as screwed by the fat cats that made sure their retirement was going swimmingly while passing the cost on to others. There is significant desperation even amongst the baby boomers and for the same reasons. Only they are less able to distract themselves, if only because they are literally less physically able to do so. Why to you think old age alcoholism and suicide are such issues? Is it because they are so rich that the worldly ennui is killing them, or is it maybe that they can no longer deny how fucked they are? appreciate your youthful self confidence while you can, it gets harder as you get older, unless you are one of the lucky rich ones.

    10. Re:They've got money to burn by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mod parent up.

      That's pretty much the way I read it too.

      Old folks don't necessary look at the world as a place where you buy a few shares of Apple or Google and wait for it to grow, or where you throw money into a gambling addiction expecting your luck has to turn someday.

      The author tries to spin simple fiscal conservatism as something irrational. But older people know the odds are always in the houses favor, and are less willing to play that game. Sounds like the people with gambling addiction were the people writing the story.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    11. Re:They've got money to burn by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The study says fogies prefer less risk.

      Not quite. The study found that geezers are less willing to take a risk to win, but more willing to take risks to avoid a loss. In many cases they were avoiding good risks and taking bad risks. Overall, they were making worse decisions than younger people when either accepting or declining risks.

    12. Re:They've got money to burn by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Not all people over 65 are rich, you know; fact is, most are quite the opposite.

      The typical U.S. household headed by a person age 65 or older has a net worth 47 times greater than a household headed by someone under 35. This wealth gap is now more than double what it was in 2005 and nearly five times the 10-to-1 disparity a quarter-century ago.

    13. Re:They've got money to burn by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Speaking your mind is fine, being hateful is not.
      If you don't like group X then don't associate with them, no need to be hateful.

    14. Re:They've got money to burn by wes33 · · Score: 2

      "Actually, there are three issues at play, two of which are mutually exclusive and the other two are related but not exactly the same."

      I am intrigued by your mathematics

    15. Re:They've got money to burn by bitt3n · · Score: 3, Informative

      so it would seem that younger people are less susceptible to loss aversion

    16. Re:They've got money to burn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Rising Age Gap in Economic Well-Being

      As per their training, the old think they're poor . That's why they have zero hesitation imposing whatever burdens they're told they deserve on whomever they're told can afford to pay.

      There is nothing to worry about. Today. The regime is secure and the bennies will flow.

      Right up until the currency folds.

      Then the cutbacks; the PIIGS found out what that's about.

      None of this is real. The whole damn nation is one giant ponzi scheme of vote buying, and it has a expiration date.

    17. Re:They've got money to burn by firewrought · · Score: 4, Informative

      The typical U.S. household headed by a person age 65 or older has a net worth 47 times greater [boston.com] than a household headed by someone under 35. This wealth gap is now more than double what it was in 2005 and nearly five times the 10-to-1 disparity a quarter-century ago.

      Isn't that as it should be, after working and saving all your life? Net worth includes possessions, house, savings for retirement, etc. Also, take the aging one-percenters (or the 0.1%) out of the numbers (or use median instead of mean) and I bet the disparity growth is a lot flatter. Fundamentally, there's a difference b/t being well off because you worked hard all your life and being well off because you (1) owned the means of productions, (2) bought off legislators, and (3) found a way to exploit others.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    18. Re:They've got money to burn by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't that as it should be, after working and saving all your life?

      You ignored: "This wealth gap is now more than double what it was in 2005 and nearly five times the 10-to-1 disparity a quarter-century ago" even after you quoted it! Some disparity is desirable (since people bulk up savings for retirement) but why has it grown so fast and so large?

      I can tell you this, my dad worked at a company extremely similar to where I work, and he is enjoying a retirement I will never have, at least without extreme sacrifice now which he did not do. He got a full pension and pre-medicare healthcare benefits - both things that my employer has cut since after I hired on here. I tell him about it and he's kind of surprised. I can't blame him personally. But in general old people are just cruising along assuming nothing has really changed and "what's the matter with kids these days" that they're racking up college debt and not settling down, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they're sucking up everything in sight just by honoring the promises they made to each other back when, while failing to set enough aside to pay for them.

    19. Re:They've got money to burn by dcollins · · Score: 2

      I fear that I'm developing Alzheimer's, because I can't tell if this thread has been Godwin'd or not.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    20. Re:They've got money to burn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Spoken like someone who has never watched a loved one lose their mind to Alzheimer's.

      Most people keep their hateful, racist, discriminatory, and otherwise hurtful thoughts to themselves. They do their best to bury those tendencies and be better than the environment they were raised in.

      But dementia destroys that filter. People that were normal, nice, average-joe people become hateful, angry, violent monsters. They do and say horrible things. And if you confront them about it, it's like talking to a brick wall. They don't understand what they just said, much less why they shouldn't have said it. They hate everyone that looks, thinks, or even smells different than they do, and you're one of them , so get out of their sight before they chase you down like the animal you are and kill you with this hatchet! (Nevermind the fact that the "hatchet" is a rolled up TV Guide. Or that they're likely to fall flat on their face when they try to take a step, which is why they're strapped into a wheelchair with a seatbelt and an alarm pad under their butt. Or that their hateful rants are the saddest thing you've ever witnessed in your entire life.)

      It's great to speak your mind, but when you've lost your mind, you're just speaking.

  2. You reach a certain age and... by skids · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...someday you say to yourself "Look, for my entire life I've done the 'right thing' and even now it doesn't help my joints stop aching or buy me a bowel movement, so what the hell, let's try something else."

    1. Re:You reach a certain age and... by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Funny

      I am pretty sure you can buy a bowel movement. Heck, I can sell you one right now. Would you like it shipped UPS or Fedex?
      Corn or no Corn?

  3. "Feeblemindedness" by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's what my dad used to call it when it happened to grandpa. Grandpa went from being a shrewd businessman to being someone we had to keep an eye on at all times (he would fall for every con artist who showed up at his door). That why "Travellers" in particular prey on older people.

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    1. Re:"Feeblemindedness" by ninlilizi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Myself being a Rromani Traveller.

      I would like to point out that all such racist stereotyping is unacceptable. Regardless weather you employ "cute" usage of quotation marks around proper nouns or not.

      At no point should it be acceptable that /anybodies/ ethnic or racial background be a synonym for 'criminal'

      (please don't mod me deep beneath the abyss... This needs to be said)

    2. Re:"Feeblemindedness" by hazah · · Score: 2

      It's not the ethnicity, it's your culture. Even if HALF the shit I've seen is true, then I'm sorry to break this to you.... the 21st century has arrived, you've missed the boat, and you NEED to catch up. Pride, in this case, is detrimental to survival.

    3. Re:"Feeblemindedness" by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 2

      At no point should it be acceptable that /anybodies/ ethnic or racial background be a synonym for 'criminal'

      Sorry, but when I see, say, a pretty girl with a Roma appearance in a major european city approaching tourists, the odds are heavily in favor of her being a pickpocket. You might call that ethnic profiling, I call it reality.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  4. I think they were just bored by GrumpySteen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Each participant were faced with 320 decisions: for example, choosing between gaining $5 and the chance to win $20 in a lottery."

    After a few dozen questions like that, I'd be so bored that I'd start choosing randomly without thinking about it just to get it over with. There's no way in hell I would seriously think about each and every question out of a list of 320.

    1. Re:I think they were just bored by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did they correct for income?

      Kids and young folks are more motivated to get $5 since they have low resources. If you are retired, why not take the chance on $20 vs a sure $5 you don't need?

    2. Re:I think they were just bored by bgarcia · · Score: 2

      For that matter, I think that once I reach age 65, I'll start to also become bored with life and start taking some chances here and there.

      Call it "Walter White Syndrome". :-)

      --
      I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
    3. Re:I think they were just bored by dgreer · · Score: 2

      Not income, wealth. 60+ has one of the lowest income brackets, but it's the wealthiest. They already made their money, now it's time to have fun, hence playing the lotto.

      --
      "I don't think software should necessarily be free ... but if you pay for it, it should work!" - me
    4. Re:I think they were just bored by Dopefish_1 · · Score: 2

      If you are retired, why not take the chance on $20 vs a sure $5 you don't need?

      But TFA says exactly the opposite occurred--"older adults tended to prefer to lock in guaranteed earnings over gambling on a bigger win".

      The noteworthy part of the study is not simply that the elderly made less money, but that their decisions were inconsistent and irrational.

      --

      #include <sig.h>
    5. Re:I think they were just bored by Lynal · · Score: 2

      Did they correct for income?

      Kids and young folks are more motivated to get $5 since they have low resources. If you are retired, why not take the chance on $20 vs a sure $5 you don't need?

      Yes. They would need to.

      The idea is this:

      Would you take $1 or a coin flip for $2?
      Would you take $5 or a coin flip for $10?
      Would you take $10 or a coin flip for $20?

      An `irrational' person would answer (Yes, No, Yes), or (No, Yes, No). Someone that answered all Yes or all No would not be inconsistent, nor would someone who answered (Yes, Yes, No) or (No, No, Yes), those people would be labeled as risk averse then risk loving.

      As someone who has to sit through a lot of talks about research like this, GrumpySteen got it right in saying:

      After a few dozen questions like that, I'd be so bored that I'd start choosing randomly without thinking about it just to get it over with. There's no way in hell I would seriously think about each and every question out of a list of 320.

      A great paper on the topic is the 2001 paper "GARP For Kids", which asks the same question about children, and does a good job arguing that inconsistencies decrease with age going from young to college.

  5. What do you have to lose at EOL? by medv4380 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you figure you only have 5 to 10 more years left why not take a little more risk. When you have 50 years left to regret the choice it makes more sense to take less risk.

  6. When you might only be years away from death.. by ickleberry · · Score: 2

    It makes sense to say "feck it!" and live whats left of life to the fullest. Young people would have it in their mind that they are going to be around for another 50-100 years. As I get older myself I find it more and more tempting to try something just to see what happens. When you are young you start off nice and naive and with little to lose so you make risky decisions, spend a couple of decades as a boring risk-averse PHB type who worries about absolutely everything but then after a while you will get tired of that too.

    The world is ruled by grey-haired folk who are still a good bit away from retirement, have lots to lose (career, assets, life). Which explains why the world is getting more boring by the day.

  7. Well that explains alot by halfEvilTech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I may get flamed for this but screw it. This would explain a lot of the issues we see from the Congress Critters.

  8. Well, thanks. by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was reading this in my car on the way to the payday loans place and I got so outraged that I drifted out of my lane and hit a parked gasoline tanker. So I figure I might as well park here and finish reading the thread. There's a lot of smoke but with the windows rolled up it isn't too bad.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:Well, thanks. by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      I'm saying there's absolutely no truth to the rumor that old people make bad decisions. Gee, the smoke is getting really bad.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  9. Cognitive Biases by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This sort of thing is in the general class of cognitive biases. Another example of this class is the Dunning Kruger effect.

    Cognitive biases have a large negative effect on the financial performance of the general public. In particular if you want to be a successful investor it's very important to be aware of this issue.

    Daniel Kahneman (a psychologist) won the 2002 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics because of his pioneering work in the field of Behavioral Economics.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman

  10. Does this jibe with peak finance = 53? by istartedi · · Score: 2

    I read about another study where they found financial ability peaked, on average, at 53. Before that you don't have enough experience. Then cognitive decline sets in. YMMV of course.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  11. Age and retirement by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 2

    Some of it could be due to attitudes changing after retirement. Before retirement the idea of having to put back savings for retirement and be careful not to blow your money because you're going to need it later colors your thinking. After retirement you don't need to save up for retirement, and you become very aware that you do not have an entire lifetime ahead of you to worry about anymore. That changes your evaluation of risk.

  12. Is it age or a generational issue? by gameboyhippo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hardly believe it's an age issue. You would have to demonstrate that the same person made different decisions at different points in their life. It would be like saying, "The older you get, the more likely you'll not know how to use a cell phone." It's just not true.

    The reality is that you have generational cultures. For example, I'd bet older people smoke more too. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it when I get old. I know better now than they did at my age.

  13. Risk/Reward/Cost by trongey · · Score: 2

    As we get older we start realizing that we have less opportunities left to succeed and less time to suffer the consequences of failure. We also come to realize that losing isn't as painful as we always thought it would be, and in the worst case we could end up dead - in which case we won't care. It just makes sense to take more risks. Falling for scams comes from a host of other age-related factors that include both physiological changes and changes in attitude.

    --
    You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
  14. Old fogey hatred by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Yet more of the hatred toward Boomers and what they have done.

    As a person on the tail end of the boomer generation, I saved a lot of money from my paychecks, I retired at 56, and am living quite comfortably.

    We get surely a lot of hate. We're Selfish, entitled, and now foolish. Bloody fucking hell - I don't even collect SS for many years yet. I am not costing you poor abused, persecuted, and robbed of your entitlement everyone elses a damn thing, You want my fucking bank account or something?

    Perhaps a different perspective is in order.

    I started my career, back in the 70's, and immediately began saving. Pretty conservative investments. A lot of people I worked with at the time said that was pretty stupid. I had people making 3, 4 times as much who saved nothing, Whatever.

    Young people have their chance to do the same as long as they have a job . But many don't want to. Just like many of the folks I worked with way back then. Right now interest rates are not that good. But history shows they will eventually go back up. Inflation was the big excuse not to save when I was young. Now it's interest rates. Ignore that. Save. You'll be an idiot for a few years. After that, not so much.

    Now for a dose ot truth.

    We are at the point, where people who haven't planned well, or people who don't really intend to plan well, resent and hate those who did. But if you are successful in your efforts to make those of us who did plan well poorer, that will not make you wealthy. You'll still be poor, you'll just have more company.

    So if you really really gotta hate on us, go ahead. Tha'ts the only thing you'll have though - your hate, and the prospect of trying to live on Social Security. Save your money - no one owes you anything.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  15. Most comments seem to miss the point by GauteL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... possibly because the summary does a very poor job of representing the article, by leaving out the most important part of it.

    The elderly are not overall more willing to take risks, it is just that the risks they are taking are different and less consistent. If faced with potential earnings, they'd rather take smaller guaranteed earnings than larger and riskier earnings; exactly the sort of stereotype of the cautious elderly you'd expect.

    But if faced with losses they'd rather take the risk of a much bigger loss than the guaranteed loss.

    My interpretation is that they are so afraid of losses they'll do anything to avoid them, even irrationally gambling to avoid loss. This sort of fits with the stereotype of keeping money in your mattress to avoid losses in bank charges and taxes, despite the fact that one single fire or robbery would ruin you.