Slashdot Mirror
US Intelligence Chief Defends Attempts To Break Tor
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Arik Hesseldahl writes that James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence, says that the NSA tried to penetrate and compromise Tor, but it was only because terrorists and criminals use it, too and our "interest in online anonymity services and other online communication and networking tools is based on the undeniable fact that these are the tools our adversaries use to communicate and coordinate attacks against the United States and our allies." It was all legal and appropriate, Clapper argues, because, "Within our lawful mission to collect foreign intelligence to protect the United States, we use every intelligence tool available to understand the intent of our foreign adversaries so that we can disrupt their plans and prevent them from bringing harm to innocent Americans. Our adversaries have the ability to hide their messages and discussions among those of innocent people around the world. They use the very same social networking sites, encryption tools and other security features that protect our daily online activities." Clapper concludes that "the reality is that the men and women at the National Security Agency and across the Intelligence Community are abiding by the law, respecting the rights of citizens and doing everything they can to help keep our nation safe.""
and I don't even live in the states
On the one horn of the dilemma, we like privacy and want information to be free. So we embrace technologies like Tor, form darknets, etc. But on the other horn, there really are people out there who will use these technologies to bring harm to innocent people--for the greater good, of course (or for a profit). These people will use technology against our best wishes.
The people that work in the NSA are a bunch or criminals. From the top leaders down to the last analyst.
They're undermining democracy this is the reality. The few good men that worked there and that tried to expose all the illegal acts going on (including of course Snowden) were ostracized, kicked out and prosecuted.
Fuck them, Osama should have droped a couple of 747s on their HQ instead of the WTC. He'd done a great service to democracy.
The rest of the world just sees the US committing hostile acts on every citizen of the planet, and also that the US is undermining freedom and communication across the world. You have to stop what you're doing, because you're wrecking everything, and your "justifications" are hollow.
Stop it.
Now.
James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence, says that...the NSA tried to penetrate and compromise Tor, but it was only because terrorists and criminals use it, too...
Well, he's right. As far as that goes. Trouble is, there's a disconnect between investigating terrorists/other criminals and wholesale spying on honest citizens. One can only suppose the term "honest citizen" is a term entirely alien to their comprehension...
In a combined statement the FBI, DEA, and Homeland Security announce a startling discovery: terrorists and criminals use cash. As a result, law enforcement agencies are seizing cash and "near cash" equivalents such as bank accounts from all US residents. Quoting law enforcement officials, "We have only just learned that cash can be used for criminal and terrorist activities. We hope the public understands the eminent danger of these systems and cooperates with these seizures. Our goal is always to prevent harm to the public and once we learned that cash was used by nearly 100% of all terrorist and criminal activities in some form or another we knew we needed to act."
I wouldn't trust Tor at all if national intelligence agencies didn't expend considerable resources to break it. Competition is what drives this technology forward.
provided it isn't abused... oh wait ...
He says his folks are:
1) abiding by the law, respecting the rights of citizens
and
2) doing everything they can to help keep our nation safe.
Those tow seem mutually exclusive.
Which says one should be careful what one asks the intellegence community to do.
Why?
. . .currently in the biz, the means to preclude future tyranny in all this are unclear. Maybe if the House of Representatives maintained anything like its original proportions, we'd have enough people actually elected by voters in place to give us more of a warm fuzzy about the oversight.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Actually, a better "analogy" is that they work hard on making sure that cash can't be used anonymously. Each transaction must be monitored (serial numbers on every bill, cameras in every ATM and store), and controlled (demanding proof of ownership for depositing cash at a bank, removing the possibility to actually use cash for buying travel documents).
Much like they are working hard on trying to make sure Tor can't be used anonymously.
c++;
The same thing can be said for opening all the letters, listening to all the phone calls since the postal office actually allows anonymous letters and the phone companies anonymous calls. Some even operate anonymous public phone booths, the bastards!
Anyone else feel that is NSA says they tried to compromise Tor but didn't, that means they know someone's about to release something that shows they were working on it.. and I'd guess they have not failed.
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
You are quite literally a front-end organization for a bunch of wanna-be fascists. Did you think no one would notice the replacing of the "Dear Leader" dictator role with an extended select group of business contacts and family members?
It always ends badly clapper...remember that.
Our government explicitly says, privacy is a threat to our safety, and it is the duty of our government to prevent privacy from being possible at all costs.
Go ahead, people. Keep voting for the republicans, because at least they are not democrats. Oh, I mean, keep voting for democrats, because at least they are not republicans. NOTHING is going to change that way. They'll keep boning us up the ass with this "oh noooo... can't have privacy.... TARE! Fnord! War on TARE!!!!"
Actually y'know what? Fuck y'all. YOU are responsible for this. Not me. I have not voted for either major party in DECADES. YOU... YOU are responsible for allowing this to happen. YOU have gotten the government you deserve, you half-wits. Sadly, I am the one who has to suffer for you turds voting for the jackasses (Bush, Obama, whatever) who allow and enable shit like this.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
some of that.. logging of currency serial numbers at certain places in the distribution chain.. is already being done.
... just as soon as he's done serving his sentence for perjuring himself in front of Congress.
... at least according to the published documents. Ho-ho-ho
" But on the other horn, there really are people out there who will use these technologies to bring harm to innocent people--for the greater good, of course (or for a profit). These people will use technology against our best wishes."
There's no use for Tor that is against my interests. None. It's just speech going down wires. You may not like the kiddie diddlers discussing their kiddy diddling, or the terrorists discussing.... well nothing, because terrorists have no reason to use it... but its all just speech. Acts are not speech, people like Clapper pretend that saying things terrorists might say is the same as committing an *act* of terrorism.
" are abiding by the law, respecting the rights of citizens and doing everything they can to help keep our nation safe"
No they're not. They hacked domestic communications on Tor too. No political candidate exists now that doesn't have an NSA folder full of their dirty secrets. Which means that liars like Clapper can/have been shaping US politics to be pro-military. They've certainly been interfering in Europe's politics, EU Commission pretending that US spying on Europe is a US *domestic* issue, FFS.
If you accept that democracy is the basis for stable countries, then he's destabilized the US.
Safe? Safe from a free democracy?? That's what General Alexander has done.
You can see it when the ex NSA Chief dresses up in military garb and jokes about killing critics. You can see how far away from a free democracy you've gone.
As 'part of the rest of the world', I clearly have no rights in the eyes of the NSA.
This leads me to a question: If Americans are the only ones who can influence NSA policy, and Americans continue to allow such policies, is there such a thing as an innocent American?
Put another way: As a foreigner, why do I have no right to privacy in the eyes of the USA?
Fat lot of good that will do to the huge number of $$$$$ bills that are in daily use in many other parts of the world often for very illegal purposes.
Their checking of serial numbers will 99% of the time catch local crooks and not the terrorists.
Failure on all reasons.
"and doing everything they can to help keep our nation safe."..... At the expense of everything our nation once stood for....
Buffoons.
I've got news for you, friend. Information has never harmed a single soul. It takes action to do that. Information doesn't kill people, people do. The NSA does not preempt terrorist threats, and even if they did, the cost to the rest of our lives is too much. They've inundated themselves with data and can't make sense of any of it until after the actions have been performed. Besides, folks could just send post cards with stenographic messages on them, or any other low-tech solution. Tor and darknets wouldn't need to exist if we didn't feel insecure.
More folks die of heart disease every year than over fifty 9/11's... 2,996 died in 9/11. 597,689. Two Hundred Times More, Every Year! If the NSA wanted to protect us they'd be making tastier health food. Over six times more Americans take their own lives every year than the Terrorists did in their worst attack against us. The threat is fucking pathetic, and those spreading the fear narrative should be fired. Humans have deep psychological, evolutionarily encoded, desires to protect our lives and those of women and children even more. This is psychological warfare.
I know it sounds cold hearted, but we can put a price on a human life. We can look at the lifespan and the benefit to society that life may contribute, and quantify a life to some degree. This is not to dehumanize people, but to put into perspective the ethics of fearmongering. A few thousand died at the hands of terrorists, but now hundreds of millions suffer every day at their loss of privacy. The aggregate suffering is far greater than that of the worst tortures to the few. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. IMO, It's better not to live in fear of your government for your entire life than to say, lose a limb. I would give up my left leg to end this NSA spying on me, and all Americans. What I really fear that they are turning more people against us every day!
Privacy is worth something. We need private space to be fully human, and as our lives deal more and more online that privacy needs to be extended online as well. Folks wouldn't be encrypting shit if they felt they could trust the networks.
The NSA is wounding us deeply. Their actions make them seem like the other secret police we fought against. We didn't need such a police state since we were brave and good people. Soldiers took up the call to fight for our nation because we had honor. The NSA is stripping away our honor. Many would not fight for us because of it. The NSA is a Threat to National Security. These fearmongers are injecting poison into the veins of our country. They will not ever decrease the dosage, and if we let them continue, they will increase it and destroy our great nation from the inside out.
Think for a second about the lengths we've got to because of the pathetic terrorist attacks. Now, what if the NSA really did try to protect us from real harms we face? The NSA would monitor everything you ate and tax you if you more if you ate "unhealthy" food, whatever they deem that to be. The NSA would be monitoring every vehicle location and remotely shutting folks down cars. They'd be preemptively sending cops into your home to make sure your bad-day didn't turn into a suicide.
We have secret ballots for a reason. The invasion of privacy must end.
I disagree. TOR's solely purpose is to provide anonymity. If they remove that aspect, all that's left of TOR is adding delays to your network connections and allowing exit nodes to sniff your traffic. There is no value left, thus they're destroying it.
Also, considering LOVEINT, there's no reason to assume that you're just anonymous to everyone except the US agencies. The NSA agents have no reason why they wouldn't sell any intel to the highest bidder, since there's no traceability nor accountability (remember that the agents only got caught because they confessed; somebody selling the same info would never do that). I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of US companies that'd love to get their hands on the intel the NSA collects.
The pope has the infallibility thing, in which he tells us when he's infallible, so we don't go confusing his regular fallible musings.
How about Clapper? When do we know he's telling the truth? Could he not wear some kind of special hat on the rare occasions when he's speaking truthfully on matters of great import? I'd suggest he wink when he's not telling the truth, but he'd be winking so often during congressional hearings he'd seem to be having a stroke.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
"we use every intelligence tool available to understand the intent of our foreign adversaries" I do not think the word foreign means what you think it does. Foreign if you look it up in any dictionary and then apply it in context to the United States means non American citizens.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
He keeps using that word, but I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
"Our government explicitly says, privacy is a threat to our safety"
Not quite, a faction of the government (an office under the executive) says that *your* privacy is a threat to safety. However *they* want 100% privacy, the money they have, how its spent, the laws they break, the new interpretation of laws they invent, everything kept private.
Thousands of analysts can see your private data, but you'll never see Obama's file (in the 'lockbox'). I bet General Alexander ensures his details are deleted. He's not an idiot.
"Go ahead, people. Keep voting for.."
Who the hell voted for this? Nobody did! It's a General simply deciding to collect everyone's data and nobody having enough power to sack him. Vote for the third party, even if he wins it makes zero difference, because everyone in his party will have their file in the NSA there as leverage.
I'd love to see Barosso's file (EU Commission President), it must be a stinker.
I've erected a "Terrorism-Free Zone" sign in front of my building.
You know the kind where someone posts something like the story expecting to be -1 with 10 angry responses, but instead gets +5 funny for being bluntly so obvious that its not serious.
If the NSA did break it I would have fun making destroy_america_plan.tor or mall_of_america_attack_bitcoin_account.tor and have just a pic of the goatse guy for NSA's enjoyment. For the slashdotters who werent here 12 years and remember the goatse troll go google goatse.ru and let me know if that would be cruel and unusual punishment?
http://saveie6.com/
The terrorists use it, too. Oh wait...
Oh, wait, isn't that kinda their job? The value of TOR lies in it's inability to be cracked, why is anyone surprised that the NSA tried to crack it?
Now, if the report was that the NSA had been able to successfully crack TOR that would be noteworthy...
Ken
Why would you listen to a convicted felon if you don't want to listen to one not convicted yet?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Because shut up.
After all, if you work for Big Brother, then you're covered for whatever you do.
It works for JP Morgan in commodity, stock market, and foreign exchange manipulation.
It ony failed once for some folks in Nurenberg.
This is more or less a justification for any action the NSA might take.
They already have access to pretty much *all* communications in the world. I for one am sure glad that helped prevent the Boston bombings and the recent attack on the mall in Kenya.
If they are already unable to detect and prevent bad things from happening at the hands of terrorists, what justifies attempting to crack one of the few means of privacy we have left? In their rampant pursuit of obtaining *all* communications they have trampled the rights of individuals to any shred of privacy - and apparently accomplished absolutely nothing of major value before it happened. Sure, the ability to subvert communications world wide might let them track down a terrorist leader a decade or so later but is that enough justification for crushing the rights of every human on the fucking planet?
They used to do this stuff using human assets - actual members of the CIA going out and recruiting agents, analyzing data received, finding targets and then determining what to do about them, but when they came across the absolute "sexiness" of electronic spying, they cut waaaaaaay back on human spying, turned the problem over the NSA and cut the budget (more likely spend more on the NSA than they did on CIA employees and bribes to prospective agents). In the process they apparently decided it was necessary to spy on all American citizens as well, in violation of the law, as well as on all the citizens of their friends and allies.
I hope they have been unable to crack TOR, even though I don't use it, because its one of the few options people have for privacy, and I have yet to hear them provide any details on anything they have concerning terrorists actually using this technology.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
As long as we know that the NSA is doing this, I'm happy to have them as pentesters. Who better to help keep TOR's security top notch?
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Awesome! Just don't share your findings with the other three letter agencies and we might be in agreement.
...who would trust Tor. It was born a government project, by the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory, and it is funded by the DOD and the State department. I assume that it has backdoors from the beginning. I am sadden the EFF gave money to this and I do not believe that the NSA any trouble at all getting anything they want from the network. Everything they say in public is a lie. They laugh at you when you Tor.
It only takes three words to sum up how untrustworthy the NSA is, "Pressure Cooker Backpack".
It is fascinating how there are so many initiatives to change the properties of the US government and the Constitution just because it has become harder for Republicans to win elections.
- Mark Levin's desire to add 11 new amendments to the Constitution.
- ALEC's efforts to repeal the 17th Amendment
- Movements in states to secede from the Union.
- Forcing students to vote in their home districts instead of where they live 9 months of the year.
- Requiring government-issued IDs less than a year old for voting, even as the offices that issue those IDs are being closed in poor and minority neighborhoods.
All because Republicans can't get a majority of Americans to vote for them*. It's even caused guys like Smitty to stop calling themselves Republican, hoping the stink of the Party of Reagan will somehow fade.
(*In the 2012 congressional elections, half a million more votes were cast for Democratic candidates for the House of Representatives than Republican, yet Republicans maintained a 234-195 seat majority. It was only because of red state gerrymandering that there is a Republican majority in the House, even as blue states move toward non-partisan drawing of congressional districts.)
You are welcome on my lawn.
Of course, because in National Socialist America, EVERYONE is a terrorist and a criminal.
It's impossible to rule a nation of innocents.
Plan things in the privacy of Their homes. The NSA gonna start monitoring that, too? The Supreme Court has already that justification is not enough in the latter case.
i think this "intelligence" stuff -aka- spying is pretty cool IF they would ...
actually tell the information to the people that pay their salaries
in a sense this would be the ultimate government funded news service for the public : P
Gee, an organization tasked with intercepting and interpreting electronic communications wants to intercept and interpret electronic communications! Who woulda thunk it?
The NSA has certainly done a poor job keeping it's nose clean, but personally, I'd be rather disappointed if they weren't trying to de-anonymize Tor! Figuring out who is talking to who, and how often, called Signals Intelligence, is the bedrock of intelligence analysis (and has been even before the NSA existed), and in many ways is more important than knowing what they are saying.
In addition, if the NSA were to suddenly be hit with a clue-by-four by federal judges actually doing their job, they would need the de-anonymizing information to perform proper filtering of domestic communications.
Has been revealed already to be a liar in Congressional testimony. Now, he's mad he can't break a system originally designed by the US military. How wonderful for him.
Does anyone else get the feeling this has less to do with "criminals" and "terrorists" and it's more of a pissing contest between powerful groups within the US government?
We have dropped 5000 nuclear warheads on each country of the planet and subjugated the survivors as slaves, but it was only because terrorists and criminals lived there, too.
Sometimes I change the words "terrorists" for "jews" from US official statements, somehow they "sometimes" resemble propaganda from the past.
Honest question. During WW2 Bletchley Park and OSS routinely listened in on all radio communication. Private, Public, Foreign, Domestic.
They also tried to decrypt all encrypted signals, enemy and ally alike.
Was that less wrong then cracking Tor?
Stop making enemies by meddling in other countries' affairs to suit your own selfish gains.
In a combined statement the FBI, DEA, and Homeland Security announce a startling discovery: terrorists and criminals use cash. As a result, law enforcement agencies are seizing cash and "near cash" equivalents such as bank accounts from all US residents.
Kinda like this: Feds Steal $35K From Small Grocer's Bank Account Despite Finding "No Violations" To Justify the Grab
Because he would have paid his dues to society. Similarly, if I were in a hiring position I wouldn't ever hire someone who I knew had committed a felony and not get punished. But I might, depending on the job, hire a convicted felon.
Who is going to prosecute? "Fast and Furious" perjurer Attorney General Eric Holder? Holder can hardly examine his own repeated perjury and let himself off with a greased slap on the palm and then prosecute serial liar and sociopath Clapper.
Sorry, but you should not have let them vote for the Ermächtigungsgesetz, excuse me, Patriot Act and give every wingnut carte blanche. They are out to get you, and it is your own damn fault.
Let us not forget disenfranchised ex-felons that have lost civil rights. That is an ever growing, largely liberal and poor block of potential voters. But, of course they are criminals, and shoul suffer forever.
Silence is a state of mime.
People misunderstand what a police state is. It isn't a country where the police strut around in jackboots; it's a country where the police can do anything they like.
Similarly, a security state is one in which the security establishment can do anything it likes.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Perhaps on that note we should also look a lot closer at our elected leaders with these tools. I would bet most have much to hide, but of course they are in government so they can beak any of the laws at will. "Causing disruption to government systems is a terrorist action", hmm it seems that is what congress is doing.
Just a thought
()-()
it is very hard to break the law when you are the one making said law
It is fascinating how there are so many initiatives to change the properties of the US government and the Constitution just because it has become harder for Republicans to win elections.
- Mark Levin's desire to add 11 new amendments to the Constitution.
- ALEC's efforts to repeal the 17th Amendment
- Movements in states to secede from the Union.
- Forcing students to vote in their home districts instead of where they live 9 months of the year.
- Requiring government-issued IDs less than a year old for voting, even as the offices that issue those IDs are being closed in poor and minority neighborhoods.
All because Republicans can't get a majority of Americans to vote for them*. It's even caused guys like Smitty to stop calling themselves Republican, hoping the stink of the Party of Reagan will somehow fade.
(*In the 2012 congressional elections, half a million more votes were cast for Democratic candidates for the House of Representatives than Republican, yet Republicans maintained a 234-195 seat majority. It was only because of red state gerrymandering that there is a Republican majority in the House, even as blue states move toward non-partisan drawing of congressional districts.)
Never any shortage of democrat true-believers.
What a dummy. All this surveillance is happening under a democrat administration. Recall all of Obama's lies to get elected and his use of the IRS against his political enemies. Gerrymandering DOES happen, everywhere, including blue states. Either party will take advantage of the rules - and it is within the rules.
Let me know when the blue states actually make that change to a non-partisan, and more to the point, non-advantageous move towards re-drawing of congressional districts - by the time that happens, you will be too old to type.
I know what you are - one of the soft-minded libs that sucks up every drop of stupid from the idiots at Slate. The stink you smell is coming from that imbecile in the white house, and the rest of this criminal administration. Obungler could stop this NSA crap today, if he wanted to give the order - there's some stink for ya. All the lies and obstruction over gun-walker, Benghazi, the NDA bullshit doing away with habeas corpus, the authorization to kill American citizens without due process, the new FOIA rule that allows the gov to lie about the existence of records - all this and much, much more is covered at the democratic underground and the daily kos - who aren't exactly conservatives.
And take your "can't get a majority of Americans" comment and stuff it -because it doesn't exactly contain enough of the truth unless you add " the republicans can't get a majority of Americans to vote for them for president, because the democrats own the looter constituencies - public unions, bought minorities, teacher's unions, the welfare class"...now it's fixed. All those groups benefit directly and financially from a democrat in the white house, at the expense of the tax payer.
You also fail to mention that most places the democrats are in charge in the states, the financial situation is dismal - Detroit, Chicago, St Louis, all of California, New Orleans. Yeah, lets elect more democrats.
I laugh at your gerrymandering comment from another standpoint - in 2010 the democrats were swept from not only the US house but statehouses across the country - the biggest ass-kicking in American history - was that all gerrymandering too, or did people just reject the democrat bullshit?
2014 is going to be a good time - if the dems lose the senate, then Obama and co can really be investigated.
If you ask the US Government, anything is legal so long as they make the claim that it is for our own good, including raiding homes with no evidence of a crime, illegally detaining US citizens without charges, and pissing on the constitution.
Fuck the NSA, and fuck the US government.
FinCEN and FINTRAC has been around for a long time and tracks most large transactions in any monetary form. Lawyers, bankers, and even folks like real-estate agents are reporting entities.
Rod Taylor
I notice you reference "gerrymandering", and choose to use it to slam Republicans. If you bother to trace the history of gerrymandering in the US, you'll notice that it was first developed by the precursors of what is the present-day Democratic party. So, in essence, what you are saying is that present-day Republicans are capitalizing upon what was originally used by Democrats. It's kind of a "bite in the shorts" when your opponents start using the political weapons you first developed against you. *boo hoo* *boo hoo* I think you'll notice that whatever tool/trick/gimmick/voodoo is employed, if the Democrats use it, the ill-informed masses believe it to be a good thing, but if the "other guys" use it, it's evil incarnate. That's the real shame....
lies
Our nation's HUMINT services capability has completely collapsed. As a result of 9/11 and in a attempt to shore things up, Bush established the ODNI which only worsened the already extreme problem of bureaucracy hampering operations. With HUMINT severely hamstrung, the executives within the agencies decided that technology could simply replace it. Ubiquitous collections programs were given more and more and more money until the community literally couldn't spend it all so they came up with new, contrived requirements. If you have the capacity to collect on everyone and simply claim that you won't use it unless you find a tr'ist, well then why should anyone care. The leadership within the agencies can report great things to Congress and the money keeps coming.
Look, bottom line is that if we don't fix our HUMINT services and get them back into and effective operational state overseas, we're screwed. Chances are very slim that we will as such Intel ops are very risky and the agencies have become incredibly risk averse, but it is none the less the solution.
The NSA agents have no reason why they wouldn't sell any intel to the highest bidder, since there's no traceability nor accountability (remember that the agents only got caught because they confessed; somebody selling the same info would never do that). I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of US companies that'd love to get their hands on the intel the NSA collects.
Unlike Edward Snowdon spys within the NSA wouldn't go telling the entire world what they'd been up to. Also the NSA undoubtedly freely exchanges information with "partners". So a US company might find it easier to get hold of such information in London or Tel Aviv...
The whole god damned world seems to be out to hurt the U.S if you listen to these people. The U.S is psyched up on its on self-entitlement and is behaving like a violent bully, and it's time the world comes together and stand up against it.
Signature intentionally left blank.
Time to get real. If Americian people want their gov to treat them like chumps, that is their business. But try to shit on the rest of the world at your own risk.
Oh, and a couple of other points:
"Movement in states to secede from the Union.": There is nothing in the US constitution which disallows a state from seceding from the union. Incorporation in the union is voluntary. And acceptance of that state into the union is voluntary. And there is nothing which demands that the state may not at some future point remove itself from that union. In fact, the consensus view is that each individual state retains a certain level of autonomy, even while it is a member of the union. It is an individual state's constitution which determines the viability of secession, and not the other way around. Let's look at it in a way you might better understand: If you join a club, and pay the dues (etc.), you are entitled to the benefits derived from being a member of that club. If you choose to leave that club, and stop paying your dues, you are entitled to do so...the club cannot force you to stay a member and continue to pay dues for a service you no longer desire. Of course, you lose the privileges associated with being a member of that club. But you also are free of whatever encumbrances that club places upon you.
"Forcing students to vote in their home districts instead of where they live 9 months of the year.": In order to exercise your privilege of voting as a lawful citizen of one of the states of this union (known as the US), you are legally required to (a) affirm your citizenship, and (b) affirm your place of permanent residence. This ensures that (a) you are legally entitled to vote, and (b) you vote upon matters that are pertinent to your place of residence. With regard to your legal place of permanent residence, exceptions are allowed that entitle students to temporarily reside some place other than their permanent place of residence. Many students avail themselves of these exceptions (e.g., remain legal dependants of their parents for financial reasons), etc., but that does not alter the fact that their permanent place of residence is mommy & daddy's house. If the students so choose, they can claim that where they live 9 months out of the year is their permanent place of residence, and mom&pop's is where they go for an extended summer vacation. But they cannot claim (for financial/taxation reasons) that that house in the Hamptons is their summer vacation cottage, while (for electoral reasons) that 12x12 hovel at Harvard is their permanent place of residence. You can't "have your cake and eat it too" simply because that is most convenient for you.
1) piss off a random country by overriding their sovereignty for years ...
2) wait 2 decades
3) said country devolves into a theocracy led by fanatics who hate you
4) said fanatics attack you in a most spectacular way, killing a bunch of people
5) increase your own country security paranoia
6)
7) profit
That's the gist of it. The longest con in human history.
So let's release chemical weapons all over the globe to finally stamp out this problem.
Oops! I almost forgot this doozy:
"Requiring government-issued IDs less than a year old for voting...." It's kind of silly, don't you think, to claim that someone under a year old would attempt to vote. Especially since the law states that one must be at least eighteen years of age in order to vote. No, actually the requirement is that proof of existence of dependant(s) be provided if you apply for government assistance in providing for the welfare of that dependent and/or to lessen your fair burden of taxes, Don't you, as a taxpayer(...assuming you are a US citizen and you pay your share of taxes...otherwise shut up), find it in your best interest to know that someone legally exists if they are to benefit from the laws that entitle them to those benefits? Otherwise, I could tell you that I am a disadvantaged citizen, with 47 dependants, many of whom would like to vote from their respective day-cares/vocational schools/juvie halls because that's where they spend most of their time, while I actually live in Tijuana but do come to Vegas whenever I receive my monthly assistance allowance. This has nothing to do with voting, and everything to do with ensuring that those who need assistance, and are lawfully entitled to that assistance, receive their fair amount of assistance. Is this not a good thing?!
"...even as the offices that issue those IDs are being closed in poor and minority neighborhoods." It seems that in most, if not all, states, you can acquire an acceptable ID card, or at least initiate the process, by visiting (a) a local DMV office, (b) a local law enforcement office, (c) a local library, (d) a local courthouse, (e) any of a number of on-line sites, (f-z) etc., and presenting yourself in person, and providing any of a number of supporting documents attesting that you are who you say you are (utility bills, rent receipts, birth certificate, prove of government assistance, etc.) Unless, of course, you have an aversion to visiting any of those afore-mentioned offices for whatever personal reason you may have. If such venues are becoming less accessible in minority neighborhoods, perhaps you should investigate what the local authorities are doing to hinder access by the disadvantaged. And since governmental representation in such areas is predominantly Democrat, perhaps you should ask the Democrats why this is happening under their watch....
This should be modded informative, not funny. The reality is that if you're travelling with any large amount of currency, the cops can and routinely do seize it. They've even seized bail money brought to the police station. It's done under civil forfeiture laws, and you then have to prove in court that the money came from legitimate activities. Often at an expense that exceeds the value of what you're trying to get back.
"It was all legal and appropriate, Clapper argues"
So computer hacking, fraud and unauthorized access are all now legal? Lets not forget that the NSA has been writing and deploying trojans into the wild (both targeting Tor users and "normal" non-Tor users) as well as admitting they have been hacking into any Tor nodes they can for no reason other than the fact they run Tor. I'm not even going to mention how they hacked into Google for that MITM attack as it has nothing to do with Tor, but that certainly shows how these people work. No warrants for any of this. Legal? I think not.
Does this guy ever stop lying?
By that same token, it was first developed by the precursors of what is the present-day Republican party, being that it was first developed by someone from the Democratic-Republican party, which was the precursor for both modern parties. If you don't remember, they split and became the Democratic party and Whig party. A large contingent of 'Conscience' Whigs then split off over the issue of slavery and formed a coalition with Free Soil Democrats and Know-Nothings that they called the 'Republican' party. This new party then absorbed the rest of the former Whigs and some former Democrats.
Quit trying to use history to support your arguments; you're terrible at both.
How else cloud we separate the guity ones from those who truely deserve our protection?
Nope, he didn't say that. But he might as well have. Clapper, *you and your kind* are *our*, all the peoples of the world, adversary.
Actually, a better "analogy" is that they work hard on making sure that cash can't be used anonymously. Each transaction must be monitored
You know what the classic solution to all this is, right? Allow me a quote from a movie made a long time ago, called Enemy of the State;
Brill: In guerrilla warfare, you try to use your weaknesses as strengths.
Robert Clayton Dean: Such as?
Brill: Well, if they're big and you're small, then you're mobile and they're slow. You're hidden and they're exposed. You only fight battles you know you can win. That's the way the Vietcong did it. You capture their weapons and you use them against them the next time.
Guys... all their equipment is wired into the internet. A lot of it is the internet. And we're in a world where everything is increasingly interconnected and online all the time, everywhere. There's nothing they can do that we can't do too. They wanna watch us? We'll watch them. They wanna revoke passports overseas... I hope they don't plan on buying any plane tickets using credit cards. Frustrate them. Fuck with them.
Oh they'll call you a terrorist, they'll probably even throw in the word 'cyber' a lot, because they love cybering. But if you're good, and you're smart about it... they're gonna be hard-pressed to find you because you are one person in a target-rich environment. You can afford to pick and choose who, where, and when your engagements are. They can't. They're a fat blob of wires, ego, and data centers.
The NSA becoming this bloated piece of shit that tries to monitor everything is a major strategic weakness. They've moved off their primary focus. They've spread themselves too thin, trying to do too much at once, and this "NSA 2.0" they're rolling out has caused a previously impregnable organization to start leaking like a sieve. They're weak guys.
Let me be clear on this, because everyone's running around thinking the NSA is this unstoppable cyber super organization. They're fat, slow, and weak. They're exposed. It is just a matter of time before someone takes them to school on this. I'm not suggesting you do this. Or you. Or anyone. But the NSA has pissed off a lot of people, and we have enemies both foreign and domestic that want a little payback.
Well, meat's back on the menu guys. Anyone with an iota of tactical understanding realizes that when you try to be everything, everywhere, all the time... when you fight a protracted war... you exhaust your resources, your troops get tired, and then... then you lose.
The NSA is about to take a special kind of fall guys. Even if nobody gives them a helping push, they're going to collapse under their own weight. The intelligence cycle depends on timely analysis, accurate information, and good communication between analysts, management, and clients. Whenever you bloat up, communication increases exponentially, while the 'signal', the amount of useful information coming out, drops. We've all seen e-mail shitstorms in the office... there are intelligence community equivalents guys. The NSA is super-saturating itself and will render itself inert within a decade at the rate it is going... without any outside help whatsoever.
This isn't James Bond knowledge I'm working off of. There are people working at the NSA. And while I can't say what any one of them is doing, I know as a group that right now... it's a pressure-cooker environment. And if I had any way of validating that out there, I'd bet real money right now on it.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Serial numbers on the bills are more to do with counterfeit notes; if someone hands you a wad of 100's with the same serial, you know they're faked. If they're sequential numbers, they're probably faked. ATM's generally have no idea what serial numbers their notes are, nor do the clerks at the bank. it all circulates too quickly.
Granted, serials alone are a crappy defence against counterfeit notes, but used alongside the other features used in most countries it makes things a lot harder.
Little odd that you can't deposit money without an ID though, I do that all the time here in the UK, and we're supposed to be the heavily monitored ones.
I don't have too much problem with the fact the Republicans have trouble winning elections and I have no trouble with the idea of expanding the House of Representatives so as to maintain the original proportionality between number of Representatives and number of Voters. I am also willing to hearing arguments in favor of repealing the 17th amendment; since the Senate was meant to be a check on the House and to give the states some influence to temper the passions of the People, I don't see this move as an inherently bad thing.
Centralized National Value Repository, with biometric access control. Your blood, face, finger tips and bone marrow are the key to buying a hot dog at Yankee Stadium in October where the sausages have boiled since June.
When they're post pubescent, it's still rape before the age of consent, but it is NOT paedophilia.
They'd sell it to the highest bidder instead.
I don't live in the USA either. But I don't feel safe. He's being fairly truthful that he's not breaking any laws in the USA. But what laws prevent him from doing all sorts of nasties to people outside the USA, including close allies like Canada? I get the feeling that they have a "no hold barred" attitude even to allies.
Well, the biggest blue state of all, California, now has an independent commission draw legislative districts. Also Washington.
There are 37 states where legislatures draw lines.
You're finally going to get to the bottom of that birth certificate thing, aren't you?
You are welcome on my lawn.
History or no, gerrymandering has become very much a red state phenomenon.
Since gerrymandering gives shrinking benefits over time, you'll even find that states like Florida and North Carolina and Texas have started redistricting every year because those darn minorities keep moving around. In the past, district maps were done every ten years.
You are welcome on my lawn.
just because it has become harder for Republicans to win elections.
You win "jacked up analysis of the day"
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
How about we cut off the oxygen supply at the NSA HQ? After all, terrorists breathe oxygen too, and given the incompetence of the NSA, I'd be surprised if anybody in there WASN'T a terrorist.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
There's that Tea Party Patriot Logic for you.
I hope some people take the time to read Mark Wilt's post above. I couldn't have done a parody that good.
All that would be good, except in the states with the most egregious voter-suppression efforts, none of it is true. Check North Carolina's rules. They're the model for the nation and it is not possible to get that ID card at a police station, public library, local courthouse or at any on-line sites.
Finally, riddle me this, PatriotMan: Why have the states that are pushing these voter suppression laws not making any changes at all to the absentee voter rules.
How do you check someone's ID card when they vote absentee? And why isn't THAT a problem for these patriotic Republicans?
You are welcome on my lawn.
I thought it was about "stopping voter fraud". What does any of that have to do with "voter fraud"? Why should a student not be allowed to vote at their school and still have a permanent residence with their parents?
Why don't you admit that you're just trying to make it harder for students to vote because they tend not to vote Republican? I mean, at least people might respect you a little bit if you were just honest about the purpose of these laws.
And by the way, I'm honored that you would register a brand spanking new Slashdot account just to respond to little old me. Are you part of the Red State Trike Force?
You are welcome on my lawn.
That's high praise indeed, coming from you.
Thank you for not trying to dispute anything I wrote.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Tor was used in an attack complete BS.
If the NSA were'patriotic at all and cared'aboht america and any other jingoist statement then they'd expose themselves.
You only need to do that here (Sweden) if you want to deposit large enough sums, I don't know exactly how much should be a couple of thousands of your so-called quids.
I expect this to gradually change within the next 10 years or so, though. I mean, handling cash in this day is suspicious enough when you might as well use a debit or credit card of some sorts, or pay with your phone bill.
c++;
That is not the end, it is the beginning.
Please make the calculations like I did and redraw every federal election (president, house, senate) in the past 50 years without counting Texas. Remove its electoral votes from total and remove them from each side. Remove 2 Texas senators. Remove Texas house representatives. Then recalculate results of votes on key laws. Redo votes and nominations on Supreme Court Justices based on the above changes. Review the SC decisions based on this new composition of the court.
Look at the results. Really I urge you, look at them.
Then go and sign the damn petition for Texas to secede from Union based on your own interests.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
They were at war too right? I mean, if the definition of right and wrong is determined by the lengths you are willing to go during a life and death crisis, then maybe thats the only kind of world you will ever have. Maybe right and wrong levels are best set in our best case world so thats the one we end up with. Rather than creating an environment best suited to battles of life and death.
I'm all for Texas secession. In fact, you could let the entire Confederacy go as far as I'm concerned. If I want to visit any of those places, I've got a passport and I'm willing to get my shots.
In regard to "the past 50 years", I'm not really too concerned about all that. What has Texas done for me lately?
You are welcome on my lawn.
That Tor was initially developed with funding from the Office of Naval Intelligence. Law of unintended consequences in action.
He has run an agency which routinely violates the fourth and fifth amendments. I'm talking about billions of felonies, every goddamned day.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
it has become harder for Republicans to win elections.
In no way deals with the empirical question of whether the Progressive course alteration of the Wilson Era (of which turning the House into a Little Senate is one component) was a swift idea. If you actually think the two-party system is more than a façade for a de facto aristocracy, then you probably think me some GOP apologist.
You're way off base.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Our main problem starts with pride.
There used to be a time, where you heard something about someone and you said, "BS, prove it." Now its, "As long as it's not me."
It used to be easier to just respect others even if you didn't like them, and you took it on yourself to preserve as many freedoms for others as you could. Now, you have to 'select' freedoms to lose. All of this is because in America today, people's self esteem are built off of their superiority to others. Once of the worst methods available for supporting your spirit. And, mind you, the absolute proof why bullies are such a problem in the US today. Same thing. Without much more thought in it you can tie together the reasons why people aren't just picking up their phones and telling our government to go fuck itself. Each of you thinks you have some better ethic or moral and it completely clouds your commitment to one another. The proof of that is our despicable two party system and their immature drama. They have successfully divided us. Given the current statistics, I wouldn't be surprised if this is another engineered attempt to destabilize the economy for yet another 'transfer of wealth'. The Bourgeois must eat!
"It was all legal and appropriate, Clapper argues, because, "Within our lawful mission to collect foreign intelligence to protect the United States, we use every intelligence tool available to understand the intent of our foreign adversaries"
If another country did the same they would invade (if it has oil)
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
that all are free to convert to Islam therefore all must be watched. We are dealing with an exercise of the First Amendment that reliably results in harm despite what legal doctrine set forth in Brandenburg v. Ohio.
Figuring out who is talking to whom is a basic function of any functioning intelligence organization. We are talking spycraft going back centuries here... If they don't de-anonymize Tor, how are they even supposed to know if the communications are foreign or domestic?
I'm not saying the information cannot be mis-used, or that it's impossible for them to retain records they should not be retaining. All I'm saying is that an anonymous Tor utterly keeps them from doing one of their most basic jobs. They don't even have the opportunity to do the right thing (or anything, really) without knowing where the members are from.
I never said the NSA should have the right to spy on American citizens. They shouldn't. They've done a poor job not spying on Americans.
All I said was that to perform one of their most basic functions, figuring out who is talking to whom (this is a bedrock of spycraft, going back centuries), requires Tor to be de-anonymized. They don't even have the opportunity to do the right thing (or anything) without knowing even which country the traffic is from.
And it's not as if "the terrorists" are the NSA's sole reason for existing... they do, you know, spy on foreign governments (and their agents) too. I could see Tor being a very useful method for an agent to relay information home. It's certainly a lot safer than a courier chain. (Heck, I spotted one myself once, and I ain't even a spook... saw some guy putting a single paper INTO one of those real estate flyer boxes at a Metro station near DC.)
Again, it's not all about the content of the message. Spy agencies run into encryption they can't break all the time (steganography, hash tables, one-time-pads, whatever); it's an expected part of the job. Which is why so much effort is spent on at least figuring out who is talking to whom when.
not sure if this is related but all of my favorite Onion sites have been down since August. not sure what United States Intelligence Chief wants to accomplish with the Onion sites down.
The narrative around this item is defined by this guy. First he says "This is for national security"
Then on cue, you respond "we don't trust you"!
Congratulations, you're a sheep. Remind me again about all those things you're doing to change yourself and make the world a better place. Better yet, go back to those things, this article is outrage porn and is poisoning your mind.
OK, but what do you suggest instead of intelligence gathering? Close their eyes and hope for the best? They can't just give up and go home. I think spying is here to stay and we all have to deal with it. Bad guys will deal with it as well, at least like the rest of us or more. So, the crypto race will be continued.
New, fresh ideas will be needed. Perhaps security systems will find out that they need to be more proactive and start from the bottom. Instead of hunting for infiltrators, infiltrate themselves into terrorist hotspots and sabotage them, do "character assassinations" of their leaders, put their own puppets in their places, try to soften and dumb down their ways ... you can never eradicate them, but you can make them fail more.
As far back as 9/11, terrorists did not use email or cellphones, and they are even less likely to do so now. No, this surveillance is directed at the common citizen.
Fantastic argument!
If you look at the leaked PDF presentation ( http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/nsa-slideshow-on-the-tor-problem/499/ ) it appears NSA may have randomly hacked people's computers that were using Tor when NSA had no idea who they were or what the contents of that Tor traffic was. It looks like a total fishing expedition. No targeting at all, just hack whoever's PC you can who happens to be using Tor and a vulnerable browser. If these hacked PCs belonged to Americans how is this not a crime? Where are you FBI?
More Russell Brand.
Russell Brand is the new cowbell?
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
for taking down twitter
Bush Jr and Obama have killed over 1,000,000 ppl. Do you think your government is not run by tyrants, yet?
In older times intelligence agencies would follow suspects, build a file, keep track of them, build a case against them.
Now sometimes it seems to me like they want a contraption akin to Google to give them all what they need to do their job, sometimes one feels they don't want to get to work properly.
if the chaps manning drones have a 9 to 5 job, hey, why they shouldn't?
People should remember that Osama bin Laden's technology usage was minimal. Most likely meaningful communication happens face to face or via more conventional channels, only a complete moron would take the internet for anything secure now.
Anybody with a bit of technical acumen knew that the net isn't a safe communication medium and that it is easily infiltrated, by undermining the very fundamental of (very imperfect) secure communications the NSA and its UK counterpart have put a clear marker in place: don't use the internet.
Which is fine for actual terrorists, who already knew that, but is not fine for the rest of us, since now other kind of criminals very adept at exploiting the Internet have confirmation of how dumb the NSA is for undermining secure communications.
We as a society will be owned by a cracker in ways we haven't imagined yet, and the seed of that failure will be the NSA's cavalier attitude regarding people's privacy and appeal to security by obscurity (no matter how sophisticated the obscurity is) by undermining standards that should be as safe as practically possible.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Lets burn books. magazines, and the evil contraptions that churn them out.
Lets stop radio broadcasts.And TV. And telephone. And telegraph for good measure.
And lets declare pigeon breeders criminals and destroy those terrorist animals, just in case.
And ban fire, so smoke signals can't be used.
Lets cut peoples tongues. And their hands so they can't signal. And gauge their eyes out (and block their ears).
Because any means of communication could be at the disposal of terrorists.
Don't you want to be safe or what?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.