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Administration Admits Obamacare Website Stinks

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "The WSJ reports that six days into the launch of insurance marketplaces created by the new health-care law, the federal government finally acknowledged that design and software problems have kept customers from applying online for coverage. The website is troubled by coding problems and flaws in the architecture of the system, according to insurance-industry advisers, technical experts and people close to the development of the marketplace. Information technology experts who examined the healthcare.gov website at the request of The Wall Street Journal say the site appeared to be built on a sloppy software foundation and five outside technology experts interviewed by Reuters say they believe flaws in system architecture, not traffic alone, contribute to the problems. One possible cause of the problems is that hitting 'apply' on HealthCare.gov causes 92 separate files, plug-ins and other mammoth swarms of data to stream between the user's computer and the servers powering the government website, says Matthew Hancock, an independent expert in website design. He was able to track the files being requested through a feature in the Firefox browser. Of the 92 he found, 56 were JavaScript files... 'They set up the website in such a way that too many requests to the server arrived at the same time,' says Hancock adding that because so much traffic was going back and forth between the users' computers and the server hosting the government website, it was as if the system was attacking itself. The delays come three months after the Government Accountability Office said a smooth and timely rollout could not be guaranteed because the online system was not fully completed or tested. 'If there's not a general trend of improvement in the next 72 hours of use in this is system then it would indicate the problems they're dealing with are more deep seated and not an easy fix,' says Jay Dunlap, senior vice president of health care technology company EXL."

516 comments

  1. Gov't project by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Funny

    So, you're saying that the web site is a proper government software project? ;-p

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Gov't project by martin-boundary · · Score: 5, Funny
      They shoulda used Mongo.

      Mongo is webscale.

    2. Re:Gov't project by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mongo loves candy...

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Gov't project by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Funny

      Mongo just pawn in game of life.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Gov't project by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Government only rises to greatness when faced with an external threat, e.g. war.
      Keep in mind that the Apollo Program was a cover story for ICBM development during the Cold War.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    5. Re:Gov't project by DragonTHC · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not really.

      They're built by lowest bidders Serco and QSS Inc. Neither an American company.

      If they had decided to hire Americans to do this job, they would have had a very large pool of qualified and skilled workers from which to choose.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    6. Re:Gov't project by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      I never knew NASA was a military organisation... oh, wait, it isn't.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    7. Re:Gov't project by blackis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why mod this flamebait? It's obviously a reference to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

    8. Re:Gov't project by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How does Mongo help prevent stupid amounts of javascript files to transfer?

      Anything more than just a couple of javascript files is inexcusable for the kind of requirements a site like this has.
      There are plenty of ready-made solutions to merge javascripts files for live sites.

      I have no doubt there are other problems though, and the persistant storage may well be one of them.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    9. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More likely just as incompetent but more expensive.

    10. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Not even close. Serco and QSS both used Indian programmers which immediately dooms any project. Spending the extra money on Americans would have given the project a dramatically higher chance of success.

    11. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it's because the developers are idiots that used jQuery in the first place.

      jQuery has a place, and that is in creating things like word processors and painting programs in javascript. It does not belong in a form that I just have to put some data in and hit submit. (The other place jQuery doesn't belong is games, but that's a browser performance issue.)

      Like why in the bloody hell do developers do this?
      example.com/jquery1.8.2.js?v=1.8.2
      This torpedos caching, and when you start throwing plugins onto jquery, they all do the same thing. QUIT DOING THIS. jquery doesn't change every damn minute.

    12. Re:Gov't project by dylan_- · · Score: 1

      Government only rises to greatness when faced with an external threat, e.g. war.

      Wars not make one great.

      --
      Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
    13. Re:Gov't project by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      The funding, the end usage of the technology. . .

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    14. Re:Gov't project by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      And government is not one.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    15. Re:Gov't project by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      The tech may be used by the military, but that doesn't make NASA military. Would MS be considered military if the DoD used Windows CE in their fighter jets? (They wouldn't obviously, it's just an example)

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    16. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jQuery == evil

      or is it

      jQuery === evil

    17. Re:Gov't project by NeverWorker1 · · Score: 1

      But Node.JS is bad ass rock star tech

    18. Re:Gov't project by nucrash · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't, but the first satellites and people launched into space by the US were on top of modified ICBMs. While we front that our space exploration programs and our military programs are completely separate, there is a lot of cross pollination between the two.

      --
      Place something witty here
    19. Re:Gov't project by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      Their original funding, designers, and pilots were absolutely military. Even more recently, military satellites make up a large portion of their launches and any craft capable of bringing a launch to LEO must be considered capable of military payloads.

    20. Re:Gov't project by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Propulsion and navigation systems.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    21. Re:Gov't project by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 0

      Wasn't this Healthcare Up your a$$ deal a democrat thing? Well, there you go, democrats are the dumbest little dictators going. FU Obama

      To be fair, it was a republican thing before it became a democrat thing. If Nixon hadn't left office under the circumstances he did, we probably would have had a single payer system years ago. The dems hated it when it was a republican idea and the republicians hate it now. Not that it matters, they would have fucked it up just as badly.

    22. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, American workers never screw anything up, that's for sure.

    23. Re:Gov't project by Ronin+Developer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am certainly NOT a proponent of out-sourcing (I will not debate my reasons here). However, let's put the blame squarely where it belongs - on the accepted process of hiring the lowest bidder with no vested interest in getting it right vs one where getting it right would have great impact on the users.

      If this work was being done by Americans who actually need to rely on the ACA for their health care coverage, you can bet your ass that it would have been done right - the first time. And, those who are involved can say it was an American success story. Instead, we now have another reason for it's opponents to call the whole program a failure.

      Brilliant.

    24. Re:Gov't project by xaxa · · Score: 2

      No, it's because the developers are idiots that used jQuery in the first place.

      jQuery has a place, and that is in creating things like word processors and painting programs in javascript. It does not belong in a form that I just have to put some data in and hit submit.

      I'm not building anything as serious as that health insurance site, and there's good reasons not to optimise before it's necessary. But anyway, I've used Zepto instead of jQuery: http://zeptojs.com/ which is 9kB, gzipped.

    25. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should read up on the IBM Air traffic control system fiasco of the 90s.

    26. Re:Gov't project by gtall · · Score: 1

      NIH, NSF, EPA...care to tell us why these organizations are great? Or does greatness need some sort of external threat to define itself so that your logic can be completely circular?

    27. Re:Gov't project by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      Even more recently, military satellites make up a large portion of their launches and any craft capable of bringing a launch to LEO must be considered capable of military payloads.

      Those "craft capable of bringing a launch to LEO" are paid for by other agencies (e.g. NRO, USAF) and built by private contractors (Boeing, Lockheed, Orbital). Recon satellites are generally built by private contractors with little or no NASA involvement (a few people on review panels maybe), except where NASA has particular technology capabilities that aren't available commercially. The launch market is pretty much all private industry at this point.

    28. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because private industry has done so much better? See: every MMO launch in the history of ever.

    29. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Which wouldn't matter anyways, because the actual program is a failure. All the website programming in the world isn't gonna save the ACA. You know it, I know it, why don't they know it?

    30. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Procurement wise, they should have not ever agreed to do a sealed bid or lowest responsible bidder. Anybody who agreed to do that is just an idiot.

    31. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They shoulda used Mongo.

      Mongo is webscale.

      You turn it on and it scales right up.

    32. Re:Gov't project by dysmal · · Score: 0

      Government projects don't use ready-made solutions. Government projects are always cobbled together from ground up by their own (internal or contracted) people. I find myself wondering which outsourcing agency it is that chunked this together with their army of H1B's.

    33. Re:Gov't project by dysmal · · Score: 0

      Even Unionized Americans couldn't churn out something that clumsy!

    34. Re:Gov't project by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Not even close. Serco and QSS both used Indian programmers which immediately dooms any project.

      I think you've watched the Temple of Doom one too many times.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    35. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So create a site that a large amount of "joe blow" users will need to use, who are probably not technical, with a JS library that doesn't support IE? That doesn't make sense. As much as web developers hate IE its a fact of life that users still use it. And for a site like healthcare.gov they are need to make it accessible to as many people as possible, IE users or not.

    36. Re:Gov't project by wooferhound · · Score: 2

      I don't understand why the Obamacare website is still working
      I thought the government was shutdown ?

      --
      We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
    37. Re:Gov't project by Scorchmon · · Score: 1

      Papa loves Mongo.

    38. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this work was being done by Americans who actually need to rely on the ACA for their health care coverage, you can bet your ass that it would have been done right - the first time.

      I doubt it. Serco is a UK company and they're quite happy to screw up IT contracts related to the UK National Health Service which they rely on.

      One example: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/sep/30/pathology-labs-takeover-failures

    39. Re:Gov't project by REden · · Score: 1

      Some (most?) parts of the government have not been funded for FY 2014 and have shut down.

      The Health Care Exchanges were funded under a separate law (The Affordable Care Act) so are not affected by the shutdown.

      U.S. Republicans are holding up the primary funding bill because they want to amend (defund) an existing law not directly related to the funding being withheld.

      --
      --- If it's worth doing, it's worth doing in Perl!
    40. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is the project director betrayed Shiva?

    41. Re:Gov't project by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      Like the Americans at IBM that spent a billion dollars building a useless air traffic control system (http://www.baselinemag.com/c/a/Projects-Processes/The-Ugly-History-of-Tool-Development-at-the-FAA/) ten years ago? Surely most of the team flew at one time or another, and didn't want planes running into each other....and they were still unable to make a usable system.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    42. Re:Gov't project by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Just follow the money, and there you will find your answer.

    43. Re:Gov't project by Bartles · · Score: 1

      What incentive do they have to get it right? Whether they're outsourced or American? Do they lose customers if they fail? Do they still get paid?

    44. Re:Gov't project by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      They're OK, but you repeated what I said to begin with in your second sentence.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    45. Re:Gov't project by swillden · · Score: 1

      How does Mongo help prevent stupid amounts of javascript files to transfer?

      In case you missed the reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    46. Re:Gov't project by Crazy+Taco · · Score: 1

      They're built by lowest bidders Serco and QSS Inc. Neither an American company. If they had decided to hire Americans to do this job, they would have had a very large pool of qualified and skilled workers from which to choose.

      I disagree. I've worked with American, Indian and Chinese developers, and you know what the number one issue is? It's not lack of qualification, it's lack of testing! Most developer HATE testing no matter which country they are from, and therefore don't do it. And you know what kind of testing they really, really, really hate? Load Testing! It is especially hated because you can't just generate large loads from your laptop... you actually have to set up dedicated load balancing agents to really simulate a large load. Setting up the load testing environment takes quite a bit more effort than most other kinds of testing, such as unit testing. So, it gets skipped all the time, and bites project after project. And I guarantee you load testing was never done on this site, and probably would have been skipped even if Americans were doing it, unless they were especially conscientious and hard working developers, which most aren't.

      --
      Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
    47. Re:Gov't project by linuxguy · · Score: 2

      > I thought the government was shutdown ?

      You thought wrong. Parts of the govt. that are not funded by congress have been shutdown. Obamacare and many other govt. functions have been funded by congress.

    48. Re:Gov't project by linuxguy · · Score: 2

      > If this work was being done by Americans who actually need to rely on the ACA for their health care coverage, you can bet your ass that it would have been done right - the first time.

      We'd all like to believe that. Many states that setup their own local exchanges paid the big bucks to Oracle. They had similar problems too.

    49. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps they do it so badly because want to find a guy who would do it for free?

      Like this story, where designer's eyes went so sore after seeing NSA presentation that he did it in the proper way:
      http://designtaxi.com/news/358404/Man-Redesigns-Hideous-NSA-Presentation-Slides/

    50. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doubtful, my money is on the requirements spec and not the developers as the biggest source of the problem. Both of those organizations specialize in developing software for governments, and having written software for various government systems in the US, UK, Australia and Spain, I'd wager the specification document was close to 1k pages and chock full of inherent contradictions.

      What's humorous about the above post however is the assumption that if Americans did it, they'd get it right the first time - because we have such an amazing track record doing that never.

    51. Re:Gov't project by Spliffster · · Score: 1

      All the early rockets in the space race were later used as ICMBs (mercury -> atlas, gemeni -> titan, both became ICBMs). Except the saturn V most prior mature rokets became ICBMs and NASA did the development. You might head over to wikipedia and read a bit about it. Usually it's not clearly stated but if you compare the military programmes with the NASA's you'll start to see that the space race actually survived because of the military value (and the obvious political one, but that wasn't the only reason).

    52. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did hire Americans. Those Americans in turn hired the cheapest guys in Bangladesh (or something along these lines).

    53. Re:Gov't project by joss · · Score: 1

      You don't get it.

      There was no stupidity involved.

      The federal government has a bunch of restrictions imposed on it that
      [a] force it to use external contractors
      [b] hamstring it's ability to negotiate with those contractors in a sane fashion (eg in a way that gives the contractors a serious incentive to deliver a working product).

      This is because those restrictions were written by thinktanks paid for by the companies liable to get the contracting work and then passed through congress by their pet legislators.

      --
      http://rareformnewmedia.com/
    54. Re:Gov't project by FloydTheDroid · · Score: 1

      No, it's because the developers are idiots that used jQuery in the first place.

      Sigh

      jQuery has a place, and that is in creating things like word processors and painting programs in javascript. It does not belong in a form that I just have to put some data in and hit submit. (The other place jQuery doesn't belong is games, but that's a browser performance issue.)

      Does any serious game use jQuery? There are much better/easier frameworks then jQuery for games.

      Like why in the bloody hell do developers do this? example.com/jquery1.8.2.js?v=1.8.2 This torpedos caching, and when you start throwing plugins onto jquery, they all do the same thing. QUIT DOING THIS. jquery doesn't change every damn minute.

      I image that they'd actually have something useful like example.com/jquery.js?v=8.3 to reflect the version of their web project instead of their version of jQuery since this is where you'd want to clear the cache (just one time, not torpedo as you say) as you roll new versions.

    55. Re: Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just give the project to Google and write it off as a tax break.

    56. Re:Gov't project by fscking_coward_2001 · · Score: 1

      Because nobody is as brilliant as you, Mr. AC.

    57. Re:Gov't project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Private contractor with big contract. All kidding aside, with all the problems in government this is bar far the easiest to fix, and fix fast.

  2. eliminate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the data streaming to 'other' government servers, and healthcare.gov would function as intended.

  3. What does IT run on .. by codeusirae · · Score: 1

    "The WSJ reports that six days into the launch of insurance marketplaces created by the new health-care law, the federal government finally acknowledged that design and software problems have kept customers from applying online for coverage."

    What software platform does the software run on ?

    1. Re:What does IT run on .. by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The WSJ reports that six days into the launch of insurance marketplaces created by the new health-care law, the federal government finally acknowledged that design and software problems have kept customers from applying online for coverage."

      What software platform does the software run on ?

      I think this problem has less to do with the platform and more to do with the fact that this is what you get when you take the lowest bid without doing some basic research on the competence of the bidder. I mean 92 files per 'Apply'? Seriously? And they rolled it out after the Government Accountability Office warned that insufficient testing had been done? This mess says something about the people running the project. It seems to me that those three months could have been well spent hiring software testing contractors to do some load testing although one gets the feeling from the descriptions that team working on this system were scrambling so madly to get it working by their deadline that there would probably not have been any time to fix any except the very worst the bugs the contractors would have found.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    2. Re:What does IT run on .. by richlv · · Score: 1
      --
      Rich
    3. Re:What does IT run on .. by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't matter. It's a government job, and everyone involved makes more money if it's a ten-year debacle than if it actually works.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    4. Re:What does IT run on .. by arbiter1 · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind the lowest bid was still probably 50-100x more then it would normally be cause hey, 3$ hammer is worth 100$ to the government.

    5. Re:What does IT run on .. by CadentOrange · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It doesn't matter if you're behind Akamai if your website is that inefficiently designed. 56 JS files that are downloaded on hitting apply. WTF?

    6. Re:What does IT run on .. by Seumas · · Score: 2

      Do you expect anything more from the same entity that spent tens of millions of dollars to put together some Drupal websites for "data dashboards for american's to observe our transparent government" that were always unimpressive, usually half broken, and could have been put together by a high school student for a few hundred bucks or a few free pizzas?

    7. Re:What does IT run on .. by richlv · · Score: 1

      sure. although akamai can take the hit of 56 js files pretty good, i guess :)

      --
      Rich
    8. Re:What does IT run on .. by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      It is all to do with the bullshit principles of privatisation and commercialisation. Why so many, each and every corporate insurance entity is entitled to equal non-exclusionary access. Now add in multiple policies from each insurance entity and you get horrendous complication. What it to work easily, Keep It Simple Stupid, 'SINGLE PAYER' but the horror that's communism.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this problem has less to do with the platform...

      C'mon. This is no fun! Some insider provide us with juicy details we can quibble over. Was it Java? C#? PHP?

      My popcorn is getting cold!

    10. Re:What does IT run on .. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      doesn't matter if it's not static files.

      a bunch of images, no problem. but it's doing requests that depend on some logic, even if just auth, from the server that's the problem.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    11. Re:What does IT run on .. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Windows XP. It's written in Visual Basic 6.0

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    12. Re:What does IT run on .. by shentino · · Score: 1

      I think a contractor took the government for a ride.

    13. Re:What does IT run on .. by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't matter if you're behind Akamai if your website is that inefficiently designed. 56 JS files that are downloaded on hitting apply. WTF?

      When I was young we used a thing called HTML forms.

      I guess they don't have enough 'zing' for Obamacare in the 21st century, that's why they weren't considered.

      --
      No sig today...
    14. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3$ hammer is worth 100$ to the government.

      Well, sometimes it is.

    15. Re:What does IT run on .. by bsane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Often times the killer is something stupid like incorrect http headers that prevent caching, which means every request to akamai hits the origin.

    16. Re:What does IT run on .. by bsane · · Score: 1

      Maybe they're using dojo?

    17. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this problem has less to do with the platform and more to do with the fact that this is what you get when you take the lowest bid without doing some basic research on the competence of the bidder.

      Let's go one step further and consider the most important aspect of the site: the apparent requirement to create an account on it TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH THE VARIOUS POLICY OPTIONS COST.

      I'm sorry. I actually think the ACA is a good first step towards improving a broken health insurance system, but that's ricockulous. I'll bet 90% of the people "signing up for accounts on the stupid website" are more interested in pricing their options out - and of them, maybe 5-10% are interested in pricing their options out on a state-by-state basis because they might move to states that have their own health care exchanges, and some of us might be on the cusp of an age transition, etc.

      Good idea: "How old?" "You smoke?" "What's your ZIP code?" "How many insured in your family?" "How old are they?" "What's your income?" "Here's your base cost based on geography and number of insured, and here's your subsidy based on your stated income."

      Bad idea: "Name, Rank, SSN, three stupor-sekrit things we hope you haven't posted on Failbook, and maybe we'll give you an account, and only then can we tell you how mucn your coverage costs."

      Covered Kalifornistan got it right: You can punch in any CA ZIP code you want, any age you want, and any income you think you might have, and a dumbass simple CGI script computes your eligibility for a subsidy ($0.00 for everyone reading this :) and tells you the cost of every bronze/gold/silver/platinum plan offered through the exchange. No "account" required, a simple dumb-ass CGI script from 1997 could process it.

    18. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Single payer mean no choices. Coming from /. crowdm that sounds hypocritical. Microsoft = bad becase they don't give you freedoms and choices. Government = good becasue they don't give you freedom and choices.

    19. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The WSJ reports ..."
      "What software platform does the software run on"

      The Wall Street Journal runs on Murdoch/Fox/anti-Obama Software.

    20. Re:What does IT run on .. by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

      So instead of using a $5 metal ash tray, they have to design a heavy glass ashtray that will break into three shard-less pieces? And what was that ashtray doing on an office desk instead of a nuclear sub where the questionable reasoning for its existence supposedly lied? I know its just a TV show (West Wing), but sadly in this case I am sure that real life imitates art and this kind of thinly veiled excuse to burn massive amounts of taxpayer money is commonplace in our federal government.

    21. Re:What does IT run on .. by Arker · · Score: 2

      Yet more proof that web developers in general are nowhere near mature enough to be allowed the use of javascript.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    22. Re:What does IT run on .. by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Single payer mean no choices.

      Well it certainly means you don't need to choose a health insurance provider*. So I guess it elminates at least one choice.

      Government = good becasue they don't give you freedom and choices.

      I'm not sure what choices you're expecting to lose. In the 60s there was an advertising campaign in Canada by a group of doctors warning that single-payer health care would end choices for both doctors and patients before the implementation of the Canadian single-payer systems (each province has it's own). Now, 50 years later, that has not only changed their position, they've found that the single payer systems have given doctors and patients more freedom than they used to have under private insurance and they absolutely do not want to go back to private insurance. In the end, single-payer was exactly the opposite of what they had feared it would be.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    23. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is indeed hollywood theatrics, they actually do use aluminum ashtrays on submarines.

      A better example is the space pen versus a pencil story. In reality, a pencil, being prone to fragment is more of a bother than a pen, and the space pen itself was developed by a private company, NASA only bought them because they were useful to them.

      http://io9.com/5838635/the-million-dollar-space-pen-hoax

      I'd also link the bomber toilet seat story, but you can find it out yourself.

    24. Re:What does IT run on .. by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really. It has to do with saving money. In this regard, the government is operating the same way that private companies already operate. They have a project that needs to get done, and it makes less sense to hire a ton of workers to get a website built only to have them be mostly useless later, so they outsource the job to a firm that specializes in just that. Sure they might have a few people that will need to maintain it on a permanent basis, but not to build the thing from scratch within a relatively short period of time.

      Again, already common practice within the industry.

      This is just one of those things that the government really doesn't do all that well. Private organizations live and die by their profit margin, so they make damn sure shit works and it works affordably. The government on the other hand basically has bottomless pockets, and does stuff like where Virginia spent millions on Cisco equipment that it didn't even need. The media blamed Cisco sales people, but the actual investigation found that nobody at Cisco made any design specifications or recommendations - they were just asked for specific models of equipment by the government.

      The culprit here is actually a government official named Gianato, whose excuse was "I didn't want to buy something that will be obsolete in 10 years" and was later promoted. Cisco, to their credit, actually bought back most of the equipment, probably at a loss too, and they didn't even do anything wrong.

      The government failed to do what other private organizations already do - perform a use and need study to determine what their actual needs were, rather than having somebody with practically no knowledge of networking designing a specification, rather he has the job that he has because he's in some politician's cabinet, aka their "good ol' boy" network.

      Having the government do it all in-house, by the way, would probably be even worse in the case of TFA, as they obviously had no idea what the hell they were doing (for example, why is it that there was nobody within the government monitoring the project as it was being developed? Yet another industry standard practice for IT projects.)

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    25. Re:What does IT run on .. by catfood · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The requirement to create an account just to get a quote? Really poor design.

      I don't think there was any evil intent on that, just amatuerish planning.

    26. Re:What does IT run on .. by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      Akamai is really nice when you need more bandwidth, but I think the way they implemented this is going to cause compute resources to be the ultimate bottleneck.

      Somebody would have to correct me here if I'm wrong, as I'm a network guy not a web guy (and yes, there's quite a difference.)

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    27. Re:What does IT run on .. by steevithak · · Score: 1

      Apparently it's built using Ruby. You can find some of the source code on github here: https://github.com/CMSgov/healthcare.gov This repository doesn't include the fun parts that make up the market place code itself but does include other parts of the website. The license file says the code has been released to the public domain.

    28. Re:What does IT run on .. by VortexCortex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a thing called HTTP 1.0, and in it there's a feature called Connection: Keep-Alive. It doesn't spawn a new TCP connection for each of those 56 javascript files. Only one TCP connection per (sub)domain is made when Keep-Alive is in use. This was such a nice feature that in HTTP 1.1, all connections are considered persistent "keep-alive" unless you write Connection: Close. From a network standpoint a few extra lines of HTTP headers between each script isn't going to matter, and if it's cached and/or co-located properly (eg: via Akamai), it actually does matter, since those requests are going to be served from the caches efficiently.

      However, the biggest problem is that HTTP is fucking dumb. No, really, it's dumb. Not that it's designers were dumb, just that it's evolved over the years and security was never part of the design. For one, there is no such thing as a "Session". In this day and Age of Information that's ludicrous! Say you use a session cookie to validate every single request for every single resource is valid... because that's what you have to do, then EVERY COOKIE gets sent to the server EVERY TIME you make a request. It's so much face palm, I can feel the back of my skull.

      On the security standpoint, neither HTTP or HTML really knows how to actually work with encryption. That happens in TLS. What a fucking crock of shit. HTTPS means you can't cache anything. Most of the files being served are NOT dynamic, but STATIC files. However, since HTTP/HTML are so fucking dumb they can't even provide a simple hash, then you can't trust mixed content. If in addition to the URL of a static resource, you could also include a known hash:
      <img src="..." digest="d8b09c45b522e34d81ac9eed95f922c7028e7fb2; type=hex/SHA-1">
      Then the browser could hash the unsecured (cache-able) resource as it's pulling it in at the behest of the secured dynamic (uncatchable) page, and verify that the requested unsecured content wasn't tampered with in transit so it wouldn't be a security issue and we could actually FUCKING USE SECURITY EFFICIENTLY, grrr. Especially if you could specify a few bits of salt with the hashes...
      <img src="..." hmac="WkRoaU1EbGpORFZpTlRJeVpUTQo=, TlRJeVpUTTBaRGd4WVdNNVpRbwo=; type=base64/SHA-1">
      But, no, that doesn't exist. No HTTPS content is cached. Apparently I'm the only one on the planet not drinking the damn cool-aide. The web is bloated and retarded, it needs to die. Long live the Internet, but fuck the web. It took HALF the age of the Internet just to get from HTTP 4.01 to HTML 5... Over a Decade, and this shit still isn't in the spec. Don't hold your damn breath for next version, or for anyone with a fucking clue how things should work to propose sane changes. Even Google with SPDY is just exacerbating the issue with bandaids over the inefficiencies of HTTP.

      TL;DR: Yeah, it's a shitty website / backend design, but primarily it's because HTTP/HTML is just fucking retarded.

    29. Re:What does IT run on .. by orthancstone · · Score: 1

      To be fair, this is turning into a common practice on many commercial sites. Ever run into a site that makes you create an account just to see shipping prices? It's idiotic but I've seen it more and more in recent times.

    30. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just because the goverment overdefines it, they say everything that they want, nothing more, nothing less, and they are unwilling to negotiate on that, and need to prove every feature (much of this is related to the contract process, they can't change the contract after the award as it opens the goverment up for lawsuits, so it needs to be very detailed). The $100 goverment hammer is that much because the goverment insist on a 17.5oz hammer that's "16 inches long", with a rubber handle, because the expert said that's the best hammer for the job, so the people make one as nobody makes one with those exact specs, and then triple check the result to make sure it's right, and $100 what you get when you are ordering 100 custom designed hammers.

      In the private sector you don't need that detailed stuff, you just say do it, and have them tack on requirements as needed, negotiate what needs to be done as needed, letting the competent contractor do it the sane way. It's not the cheapest way, but it gets it done on time the first time, and you'll have a working system on launch day, even though something things might not be there completly. The private sector gets the $3 hammer because they asked an expert who said your requirements are BS, and any old hammer is good enough, just buy a couple extra in case the cheap chinese crap breaks.

    31. Re:What does IT run on .. by rabtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is just one of those things that the government really doesn't do all that well. Private organizations live and die by their profit margin, so they make damn sure shit works and it works affordably.

      I cannot let this comment pass. Sorry, but anyone who's worked for a large corporate beauracracy knows this is nonsense. They are just as large, Byzantine, and wasteful. That's simply how large human organizations function.

      --
      Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
    32. Re:What does IT run on .. by kbahey · · Score: 1

      Akamai and other CDNs will help with read only traffic.

      But if you are POSTing stuff to the site, and they riddled it with AJAXy stuff, Akamai will not help one bit.

    33. Re:What does IT run on .. by CadentOrange · · Score: 1

      The verbosity and other brain dead aspects of HTML/HTTP have been done to death. But that hasn't prevented sites like Facebook from working well. The fact that submitting a simple form generates 90+ requests is indicative of poor design. Nothing more.

    34. Re: What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capitalism does not work, and has never worked *anywhere*. Of course, if you decide to interpret "working" as creating a massive subclass of exploited workers serving a predatory class of owners - then in that it has been VERY successful.

      Two can play that game.

    35. Re:What does IT run on .. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I doubt that, usually the bidding is like this:
      a "very competent company" bids: 100k (because they made similar system and actually know what they do, they also know how to handle "new features" and charge extra fro them, in other words: a honest offer)
      "some other" company: 110k
      "another" company: 120k
      a "competent company" that estimates: 170k (they seriously checked the requirements, made some estimations and believe the cost will be 250k, but as they want the contract and as they know how to move "new features" into "must be charged extra" they are confident to start with 170k and expand the contract to 250k)
      another company (perhaps IBM or Oracle) estimate: 250k
      and finally someone offers: 300k

      Now the bean counters come, and look at the offers (usually some design papers are delivered, but the bean counters have no clue about those) .

      A typical bean counter will simply ditch the most expensive and the cheapest offer (likely even without looking at the expertise and design of both).

      In my example for some reason the bean counter will settle on the 120k offer. It is not much more expensive than the 110k and somehow he trusts the representative of that company more.

      All on /. will shout: no way this can be done with 120k!

      Unfortunately the only one with the correct estimate, the "competent company" won't get the contract. And by no surprise even his internal guess of 250k will likely be exceeded.

      So after the "another" company failed and has burned 2x the money than the "competent company" has estimated (which is more than it had estimated internally) we suddenly have the news: failed software project.

      And surprisingly, the "very competent" company indeed could have made the same software: working, for nearly a third of the price, in half the time.

      Now as the project is burning the contract is given to one of the highest bidders to finish or rework it, because suddenly they believe the "good name" of them is a guaranty for success (but they shied the price before).

      The other way of deciding which contractor to take is similar to the above one. But now they decide on the dollar per hour price of the developers.

      One company comes with ten developers (likely the "very competent" company) and charges $140/h

      The next one does it for $70 but likes to have 18 developers involved and charges traveling extra.

      Then there is a company that comes with 30 developers but charges only $50.

      For some reason, which has nothing to do with: specs, design, experience etc. the bean counter thinks: "oh, 30 developers, 5 teams, world wide distributed, 24/24 development and I can call someone at any time!" that sounds good to me.

      Obviously when he sees another offer $30 for 50 people he choses that one ... can't be wrong too have more people on the job.

      Surprisingly again the ten developers for $140 would have been the cheapest, as they did the project in half the time.

      But a bean counter simply can not stand it to pay more than he earns himself to some competent contractor.

      I only did a few of those $140 jobs, the latest project went pretty down hill after I got replaced by 6 or 7 people who charged $70 ... typical example of: unable to do a simple calculation (I even only worked there 2/3rd and the 7 guys could not replace me, retarded).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    36. Re:What does IT run on .. by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      These kids and their Rock’em Sock’em Robots and their Spirographs and their Moby Grape and their 90210...

      GET OFF MY LAWN!

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    37. Re: What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Two can play that game

      That's the problem with arguing with autistic people; they think that playing with words is a valid form of arguing - it's useful to them because it confuses the subject, allowing them to derail the discussion and not have to address the substance of the comments.

      As far as addressing the (weak) substance of your "argument", capitalism is responsible for the hugest advances in the human condition, EVER. And if you think that the history of the USA supports your pathetic argument, then it just shows how misguided you are. Pretty much EVERY problem in the USA that liberals ascribe to capitalism, is actually the result of socialism / communism corrupting things. The slide started in the 1880's and has slowly steepened since then.

      Sadly, today's communists are completely aware of this. This is why they continue pushing bad policies - because they are purposely trying to crash the system so it can be replaced with their worker's paradise. Communism can only arise after the complete distruction of a society.

    38. Re:What does IT run on .. by Bartles · · Score: 1

      When the subclass gets too big and uppity, they just exterminate it. 65 million people in China, 20 Million in the USSR. It will take capitalism a long time to catch up to that.

    39. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But . . but . . that wasn't in the brochure!

    40. Re:What does IT run on .. by Spliffster · · Score: 1

      Looks like you need to blow off some steam, have you considered posting to alt.sysadmin.recovery lately?

    41. Re:What does IT run on .. by notanalien_justgreen · · Score: 1

      On the positive side, some of the state-run Obamacare websites are really nice. Granted they have dramatically lower loads on them, but regardless it feels as easy as shopping on Amazon. I'm not sure why the news journalists aren't talking about them, or interviewing people who used those site successfully.

    42. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It runs on Jeykll/Ruby because Java and .Net enterprise level solution aren't cool: https://github.com/CMSgov/healthcare.gov.

    43. Re:What does IT run on .. by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      But you only ever need ONE COOKIE, and it only needs to be a nice little session ID. Imagine that. If you are sending data back and forth via cookies, you are doing it wrong.

      Of course, HTTP allowed us to use a single program to access all kinds of content. Seems with phones, we are going back to the model of writing a client for every thing you want to do. Just that it all uses the same port to do it now.

    44. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Name a company as large as the US government.

    45. Re:What does IT run on .. by peccary · · Score: 1

      No, the designers of HTTP were dumb - they totally ignored the state of the art of distributed applications design, and set the Internet back by at least a decade. In their defence, they really were trying to solve a dumb problem, and people abused it to do things it was never meant to do. It was meant to deliver mainly static content, not to be a glorified terminal service for remote applications, but that's what it's become.

    46. Re:What does IT run on .. by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind the lowest bid was still probably 50-100x more then it would normally be cause hey, 3$ hammer is worth 100$ to the government.

      Nothing the US Govt. does surprises me any more after I watched a documentary that claims that the Bush administrations handed a contract to handle oversight of tens of billions worth of funds going to Iraq and that specifically asked for qualified accountants to a firm run out of a private residence in S-California (apparently none of the handful of employees were certified accountants). Apparently some $8.8 billion of that money subsequently went missing. To put that into perspective $8.8 billion will buy you 58 F-22 stealth fighters at a fly-away unit cost of $150 million or around 1000 M1 Abrams tanks at a drive-away price of $8.6 million. Those thousand tanks are enough to equip four armored divisions of 250 tanks each which are in turn enough to provide the armor component of two entire field-corps (and the current US army has four field-corps of whom one is airborne). The amazing thing is that nobody to this day seems to know how or why that peanut sized accountancy firm got that contract.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    47. Re:What does IT run on .. by fscking_coward_2001 · · Score: 1

      Private organizations live and die by their profit margin, so they make damn sure shit works and it works affordably.

      Seriously? You really believe this?

    48. Re:What does IT run on .. by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      Well let's define affordable for a second. To the government, anything is affordable. Really, if there was a limit they didn't like, all they'd have to do is take it out of a budget that belongs to something else, say education, and then complain that their education budget isn't big enough, so then they raise taxes because think of the children. Now, name one corporation that has pockets as deep as the US government. Name one corporation who, when they don't have enough money, can just change the laws so that more money magically appears.

      Indeed there are many examples of wasteful projects in large corporations - nobody will deny that. However the government manages to do waste on a big scale of its own, and when it does so, it doesn't really suffer any consequences. When a corporation has a failed big IT project, heads roll. When the government has a failed IT project, there's maybe a sigh at the worst.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    49. Re:What does IT run on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having contracted for three Fortune 50 companies, I must agree. Their systems were all the worst structured shit I've ever seen in my life. To the point where I wonder how anyone responsible for it can even get a job doing what they do anymore, but from experience, I know it's because of connections more than knowing what they are doing. A cursory questioning of programming will rule almost all of them out.

      But they have a GREAT system for documenting their massive failures at least, while glossing over it all as "technical debt" to be addressed at some indeterminate time. I once spent nearly a month going through a technical doc and rewriting it to address what NEEDED to happen along with what executives wanted. All my ideas got shot down, until they suffered massive server failures and ultimately data loss because of a lack of standardized procedure. They ended up paying me an OBSCENE amount of money to help architect their new websites, and spent at least three times as much just to get it to where I could ask literally whatever I wanted to get them to agree with me.

      Now, that client hasn't had an outage in years :)

      Hire me, ACA. I can fix your shit.

    50. Re:What does IT run on .. by riondluz · · Score: 1

      Wow, Moby Grape; they played at my H.S. prom!

      Thanks for jogging my memory

      --
      resist propaganda
  4. Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Of the 92 he found, 56 were JavaScript files..."

    Generally, the JS files should be cached client side so how is this really an issue? Not that 56 JS files really should have been needed. It isn't that hard to make it group them together into one large JS file (saving on the HTTP requests) or just cut down on the useless crap on the site. People want the site to work and be easy to navigate, not be Web 2.0 everywhere.

    I've seen sites far worse with the amount of files requested (just went to yahoo.com and had 153 requests for the homepage).

    captcha: identity (The NSA are on to me!)

    1. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 4, Informative

      Let's examine an HTTP request for a rather beefy portion of the JavaScript in question from healthcare.gov:

      pparadis::palegray-mobile { ~ }-> curl --head https://assets.healthcare.gov/global/js/lib/jquery-1.8.2.js
      HTTP/1.1 200 OK
      Server: Apache
      ETag: "cfa9051cc0b05eb519f1e16b2a6645d7:1370524513"
      Last-Modified: Thu, 23 May 2013 15:59:12 GMT
      Accept-Ranges: bytes
      Content-Length: 93436
      Content-Type: application/x-javascript
      Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 09:44:20 GMT
      Connection: keep-alive

      They're not even bothering to set the HTTP Cache-Control, Proxy-*, or Expires headers on this content, which will most assuredly limit intermediary proxy and client caching. To say this is amateur hour would be a gross exaggeration of the skills being fielded by these developers.

      Much larger issues undoubtedly exist in their backend infrastructure. Given the shit I've seen in this area, I could probably spend the next hour making educated guesses about how badly they've fucked up in various regards, spend another hour partially validating those guesses, and wind up just saying "yup, they're idiots." Instead, I think I'll go to bed now. I have work in the morning.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    2. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, I'm keenly aware they're using Akamai for CDN purposes. That doesn't make this any better; in fact, given some of their functionality, it makes it worse. Time for bed.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    3. Re:Client-side Caching by mrbester · · Score: 1

      If they're using Akamai (so aren't against CDN use) why the hell are they locally hosting jQuery, albeit an out of date one? There's absolutely no need to.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    4. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's exactly the quality you get when you outsource to Indian programmers. We've had a decade to evaluate the outsourcing debacle...haven't we learned any lessons from it?

    5. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nevermind the fact that the problems you note will not improve performance in this case.
      You are a nice example of what is wrong in the IT industry: slashing others work, and then wondering why IT isn't a nice place to work anymore.

    6. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If they're using Akamai (so aren't against CDN use) why the hell are they locally hosting jQuery, albeit an out of date one? There's absolutely no need to.

      You're right. Clearly what the government needed to do is make sure Google logs a record of everyone who applies for healthcare through the public markets so Google can update their marketing profiles with the knowledge of who isn't taking employer-provided healthcare. There's no possible way that handing that information to Google wold violate healthcare privacy laws.

    7. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It has the last-modified header and an Etag. Expires and cache-control are unnecessary. Contrary to popular web developer belief.

      http://redbot.org/?descend=True&uri=https://www.healthcare.gov/&req_hdr=Referer%3Ahttps://healthcare.gov/

      http://redbot.org/?uri=https://assets.healthcare.gov/global/js/lib/jquery-1.8.2.js&req_hdr=Referer%3Ahttps://healthcare.gov/

          HTTP/1.1 200 OK
              Server: Apache
              ETag: "cfa9051cc0b05eb519f1e16b2a6645d7:1370524513"
              Last-Modified: Thu, 23 May 2013 15:59:12 GMT
              Accept-Ranges: bytes
              Content-Type: application/x-javascript
              Vary: Accept-Encoding
              Content-Encoding: gzip
              Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 11:58:37 GMT
              Transfer-Encoding: chunked
              Connection: keep-alive
              Connection: Transfer-Encoding

      General
      The server's clock is correct.
      Content Negotiation
      The resource doesn't send Vary consistently.
      The ETag doesn't change between negotiated representations.
      Content negotiation for gzip compression is supported, saving 64%.
      Caching
      The resource last changed 137 days 19 hr ago.
      This response allows all caches to store it.
      This response allows a cache to assign its own freshness lifetime.
      Validation
      If-Modified-Since conditional requests are supported.
      An If-None-Match conditional request returned the full content unchanged.
      Partial Content
      A ranged request returned partial content, but it was incorrect.

    8. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They provide an ETag and a Last-Modified. Both are valid mechanisms for client caching. You are confusing caching and validation. The above requires the client to validate the content, but it is perfectly sane to use the cache on HTTP 304 reply.

    9. Re:Client-side Caching by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I heard on a radio show that the agents who help people find plans (and who have personal information attached to their accounts for the people who they are signing up), were having trouble signing in prior to the opening. The guy who was talking about it was upset about the forgotten password functionality, which apparently had emailed him his password with the wrong capitalization.

      I'm sure that we should take radio show information with a grain of salt, but the thing he was upset about was that the capitalization was wrong, so he wouldn't (or thought he wouldn't) be able to use that password to sign in, not that they are apparently storing passwords in the database somewhere, or that they were sending that information using an electronic postcard.

      This was just thrown out there as one of many problems, but the other issues he mentioned and focused on didn't seem as serious to me. Inefficient design is annoying, but surely it is not nearly as critical as insecure design when patient health and financial information is involved.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    10. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're letting Akamai get all that juicy marketing info.

    11. Re:Client-side Caching by naris · · Score: 0

      Why would you want a javascript library that is not going to change ever to not be cached?

    12. Re:Client-side Caching by naris · · Score: 0

      It is very common for large organizations, such as corporations and government, to insist that ALL content be hosted locally as part of their policy.

    13. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why was this modded troll? Serco is one of the contractors, an Indian outsourcing firm.

    14. Re:Client-side Caching by Zeromous · · Score: 2

      Where have you been? /. Subs and Mods have also been outsourced.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    15. Re: Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      er, no. proper caching would totally help. Nice try Serco tho.

    16. Re:Client-side Caching by tbannist · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Several people noted that it is validly cached with the Etag and Last modified headers, so a better question might be why aren't they serving jquery-1.8.2.min.js? From the jQuery blog:

      http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.8.2.min.js (compressed, for production)
      http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.8.2.js (uncompressed, for debugging)

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    17. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      assets.healthcare.gov is at Akamai.

      host assets.healthcare.gov
      assets.healthcare.gov is an alias for assets.healthcare.gov.edgekey.net.
      assets.healthcare.gov.edgekey.net is an alias for e7393.dscb.akamaiedge.net.
      e7393.dscb.akamaiedge.net has address 96.16.151.205
      e7393.dscb.akamaiedge.net has IPv6 address 2600:1403:2:181::1ce1
      e7393.dscb.akamaiedge.net has IPv6 address 2600:1403:2:189::1ce1
      e7393.dscb.akamaiedge.net has IPv6 address 2600:1403:2:196::1ce1

    18. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moreover, why aren't they letting Google serve that? The average user is much more likely to have run across Google and already have the file cached, and if not, Google is exceptionally good at serving billions of people at the same time.

    19. Re:Client-side Caching by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      I would mod you up, but I outsourced my mod points. Let me get a hold of the call center, and someone will get you modded up right away.

    20. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To say this is amateur hour would be a gross exaggeration of the skills being fielded by these developers.

      Yah, that is simply failing to enable/configure something. Run the front page through a HTML validator. They can't even get the html attributes correctly spelled. Frankly, its amazing it even renders.

    21. Re:Client-side Caching by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      It's ok, I trust you will do the needful.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    22. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you checked the file's contents, you'd notice that it is the 91-KB minified file, as opposed to the 259-KB full file. It just lacks the .min. in the filename.

    23. Re:Client-side Caching by cjav · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile I'm only thinking. Poor technical team behind healthcare.gov, on top of everything they now have to deal with the slashdot crowd poking into their crappy website.

    24. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also the site is built on a Ruby platform. As Twitter already figured out, Ruby doesn't scale.

    25. Re:Client-side Caching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liability, privacy, etc.

      A government website shouldn't allow Google or any random company with no privacy clearance know that a Joe Public of ip address 201.202.203.204 visited a healthcare insurance website.

      Also, what if Google stops providing their Hosted Libraries service?

    26. Re:Client-side Caching by Zynder · · Score: 1

      Do the needful? Is this supposed to be something an Indian tech suport person might say? Otherwise it isn't any proper English phrase that I know of. At least not American English. Those silly Brits like taking people's piss for some reason.....

    27. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      I'll just go ahead and directly quote from your notes:

      This response allows a cache to assign its own freshness lifetime.

      You apparently don't spend very much time actually working with various caching proxies or examining the default behavior of various user agents when presented with various options (some caches follow RFC 2616 better than others, and different or incomplete response header combinations may well cause unexpected behavior as a result), or you wouldn't have wasted your time with a misleading and ultimately misleading response.

      I've actually written a caching proxy and HTTP/1.1 accelerator from scratch. I suspect you haven't, which would have a lot to do with why you don't know what you're talking about.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    28. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      I'm not confusing anything. I've actually written a caching proxy from scratch, and there's a difference between saying the content could be cached and aggressively encouraging it. The headers are incomplete in this regard. Please refer to RFC 2616.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    29. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      Do the needful? Is this supposed to be something an Indian tech suport person might say?

      It's not supposed to be. It is.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    30. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      No, it is not validly cached, at least not in any useful sense given the sea of caching proxies and user agents in the field. The headers presented merely hint that discretionary caching is okay, and do nothing to encourage caching either by proxies nor end user agents, nor inform such recipients of additional criteria which affects these factors. Please read RFC 2616 and come back when you're done.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    31. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      You must have missed the follow up response I posted right after my initial reply.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    32. Re:Client-side Caching by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Ruby as a language isn't the problem. However, Ruby on Rails and the atrocities of frameworks that are its spawn are frequently major problems.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
  5. This isn't exactly surprising. by philip.paradis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the story here is that a large team of software developers with no demonstrated experience in developing, testing, performing quality assurance for, and administering large scale enterprise application deployments get a federal contract and botches it horribly. Color me shocked.

    I've been working in development and architecture roles for fifteen years, and have seen exactly the same pattern on a variety of scales over and over again. I've seen a number of rather large infrastructure development projects that worked out very well too, but none of those were public sector projects.

    Just remember that the folks responsible for this mess are certainly still taking paychecks while an enormous number of government workers are suffering due to the inability of our Congress to do its job. Good times, huh?

    --
    Write failed: Broken pipe
    1. Re:This isn't exactly surprising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's alright that they are all still getting paychecks, because they work for CGI Group Inc, a Canadian contractor.

      I worked on a project contracted to them once. The lead developer accidentally deleted the entire source tree, and had to drive home to get the backup tapes.

      Go head, sign up for Obamacare, your personal data will probably end up on a tape in some programmers bathroom magazine basket.

    2. Re:This isn't exactly surprising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. What you are seeing here is in my view fairly typical.

      My guess is that govt procurement people (that used to work for big consulting firms, but not as programmers) did a deal with their buddies in the big consulting firm. The big consulting firm then hired a bunch pile-em-high-sell-em-cheap developers, usually not long out of school and/or abroad and bullies them into building something in quick time with zilch training.

      This happens time and time and time again.

      If taxpayers and shareholders saw what went on behind the scenes of some of these deals they would have kittens.

    3. Re:This isn't exactly surprising. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      "they would have kittens."

      Cool. I like kittens. I'll take a calico, a couple tiger-stripes, and one fluffy white one for my daughter.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    4. Re:This isn't exactly surprising. by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that the people responsible for the mess don't actually work in congress or government. Off topic, I know, but everyone seems to be afraid to actually point fingers for the shutdown beyond hand waving like "Oh congress!" Failure to identify the specific problem will ensure nothing changes.

      In my opinion, it's the tea party, which is in turn ordered by the Koch brothers and other rich elites, over health care. That's who I blame for the shutdown. And obviously they're going to continue to get paid: they've played the game very well. So well, in fact, that I'm suspicious the obamacare website problems are intentional. No evidence to support that at all, just that so much money and effort is being thrown against Obamacare that I suspect it's intentional. The website is critical to that.

      To go further into speculation, I think it's because the existence of a middle class depends increasingly on health care being paid for. Medical bills contribute to many bankruptcies, having the middle class saddled down with medical bills is an easy way to erase it and have another third world nation you can exploit easier. Obamacare will fail in the long-term if enough young people don't enroll in it. It has been suggested that the shutdown is basically just to get rid of the news cycle that it's starting.

      I think the reluctance to point fingers is due to not wanting to sound partisan or biased, and disgust with both parties. So realize that I'm not saying "republican/conservative bad, democrat/liberal good." The tea party is an entirely different beast, they're not conservatives, and they're only republicans in name. I blame both parties for being incapable of stopping them. But the blame for the shutdown should be squarely on the tea party.

    5. Re:This isn't exactly surprising. by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

      >> ... the folks responsible for this mess ...

      You mean the D's who created this whole mess?

      You mean Obama?

  6. Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So now Obama can agree to a later start of Obamacare without losing his face: He'll not give in to the Republicans, but just react to deficiencies in the technology.

    Captcha: sequel -- how apt.

    1. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's already lost face over this: too many shenanigans with the federal budget resulting in the current impasse.

    2. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The USA is frighteningly-close to tumbling into full totalitarianism.

      You were doing so well - and then you threw in this bit of unsupported insanity.

    3. Re:Compromise Opportunity by BlueStrat · · Score: 0

      The USA is frighteningly-close to tumbling into full totalitarianism.

      You were doing so well - and then you threw in this bit of unsupported insanity.

      Ah, so you're someone who has very little real knowledge of history, then.

      Thanks. I'll be certain to give your critique all the attention it is due.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    4. Re:Compromise Opportunity by sociocapitalist · · Score: 5, Informative

      So now Obama can agree to a later start of Obamacare without losing his face: He'll not give in to the Republicans, but just react to deficiencies in the technology.

      To add insult to injury, the administration decided to take down the Amber Alerts website, blaming the shutdown, but Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" website is still up. They shut down the PX at Andrews AFB and the WW2 Memorial on the National Mall to WW2 vets, but the golf course at Andrews AFB, which Obama likes, is still open, as is the one at Camp David. Funny what this administration considers "essential".

      For this administration it's about not compromising and punishing the American people for supporting their opposition. The pain they intentionally inflict they hope will convince most people to force the opposition to give in. A Park Services Ranger was quoted as saying they were told to make life as painful as possible for people.

      "Tell your Senator/Representatives to cave or this kitten (or abducted child that won't show up on the shut-down Amber Alert website) gets it."

      1. Nudge

      2. Shove

      3. Shoot

      They are past "Nudge" and are now well into "Shove"...with scattered, mostly kept low-key (for now), but increasingly-numerous incidents where "Shoot" is starting to be employed.

      The USA is frighteningly-close to tumbling into full totalitarianism.

      Strat

      Seriously? You're going to reference The Examiner for the park ranger quote? Come on.

      For the rest Reuters has a good explanation of why parts of the government are hit by the shutdown and other parts continue unaffected, the explanation being that the parts that get funding from Congress stop and those and which are funded otherwise continue to function. In the case of the Andrews AFB golf course, for example, it's funded by user fees and is not reliant upon Congress for budget.

      Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-03/troops-forage-for-food-while-golfers-play-on-in-shutdown.html

      But hell...don't let details get in the way of your rant...

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    5. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USA is frighteningly-close to tumbling into full totalitarianism.

      You were doing so well - and then you threw in this bit of unsupported insanity.

      What would you call it, when a "free individual person" can be taxed for any activity, as well as, any NON-ACTIVITY ?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

      Totalitarianism or totalitarian state is a term used by some political scientists to describe a political system in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible.[1]

      Obamacare is totalitarianism, which is SCOTUS supported insanity, and freedom is now officially a myth.

      Welcome to Obamacare comrade.

    6. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what are your sources for any of this info? Oh wait lemme guess, it was a right-wing biased outlet like Fox News, Rush Limbaugh or website like Breitbart.

      This article is about the technical issues surrounding what went wrong, not political blame. When politically biased crap like this gets modded +4 insightful, the shark has not only jumped, it's dead, Jim.

      And yes, I'd say the same thing if it was pro-Obama/Democrat/Left. Slashdot is supposed to be a higher standard because the commenters are in technical fields where facts matter. Of course political ideologies will vary, but backing up your statements with reputable sources is expected. If you don't then you should be ostracized by mod downs.

      If there's any hope for /., in a few hours the parent post will be modded correctly to -1 Troll. Otherwise, I for one, will be signing off of /. forever. We'll see.

      Rant over.

    7. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      But hell...don't let details get in the way of your rant...

      Yes, lets not let details get in the way, just have another glass of Michelles cool-aid.

      "Feds Try to Close the OCEAN Because of Shutdown"
      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/Feds-Try-to-Close-the-OCEAN-Because-of-Shutdown

      Just before the weekend, the National Park Service informed charter boat captains in Florida that the Florida Bay was "closed" due to the shutdown. Until government funding is restored, the fishing boats are prohibited from taking anglers into 1,100 square-miles of open ocean.

      1,100 square miles of ocean, closed, due to lack of funding ?

      The Park Service will also have rangers on duty to police the ban... of access to an ocean.

      Rangers on duty, to police the closure of the ocean, but not enough money for rangers, to police the ocean when its open.

      Who the hell are you kidding ?

    8. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Amber Alert site : http://www.amberalert.gov/

    9. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The golf course operations are funded through user fees, not an appropriation from Congress. That's why they're open. As for Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" -- I have no idea how that is funded, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was funded privately.

      The problem is the Republicans in Congress who try to extort the Democratic Congressmen and the Democratic President by doing everything they can to cause damage. Then folks like you eat up the misinformation and blame Obama.

    10. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. The 2010 Affordable Care Act was drafted by committees in both Houses of Congress for over one year with open testimony from persons involved with all facets of the health system. The act was chosen amongst two possibilities, one that preserved the private health care system and one that nationalize it. It was passed by a majority in the House and a supermajority in the Senate. The people weigh in with two elections of Congress and one of the President. The Supreme Court reviewed the Law and deemed major parts as constitutional. However, a minority group of Republicans, representing the will of 38% of the population, initiated a standoff with their Leadership and Senate Democrats. They threaten that if the ACA was not repealed then they would shut down the government and possibly not raise the debt-ceiling. The latter is viewed by many economist as catastrophic for the global economy. Totalitarianism indeed!

    11. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is Obama, and the Democrats, who are refusing to negotiate.

      Obama can call Iran and negoitate with their president, but he refuses to negotiate with congress to produce a budget.

      Please remove your head from your posterior exit orifice.

    12. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      You, are a fucking moron.

      He didn't shut down the ocean.

      http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/oct/07/tweets/did-obama-shut-down-ocean-part-shutdown/

      And he didn't shut down the Amber Alert system. The Amber Alert system is a private non-profit entity at the federal level so he couldn't shut it down even if he wanted to.

      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/07/tweets/tweets-and-bloggers-say-obama-used-shutdown-close-/

      I don't know how you could ever post something from Breitbart with a straight face.

    13. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "To add insult to injury, the administration decided to take down the Amber Alerts website, blaming the shutdown, but Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" website is still up."

      Way to dive right into the latest FW: FW: FW: OBAMACARE KILLS GRANDMA email content.

      Amber Alert was still active, just the website was down due to the need for it to be actively maintained.

      Let's Move is basically a 0-maintanence static website, no one needs to be tasked with maintaining it.

      See how easy that was to figure out? Then again given the rest of your post I'd have to guess actual thinking was never your strong suit.

    14. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was passed by Democrats, who controlled all 3 branches of government, after Obama lied to get elected by telling everyone he would provide "a subsidy but opposed the use of a mandate." Democrats and Obama believe the people will just eventually lay down and accept it.

      The majority of people remain opposed to it.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Public_opinion

      Read it and pay attention to details.

      So they pass a law, the majority of people are opposed to, to further their personal ideological agenda, designed with components that Obama told everyone during his election campaign that he did not support, and now Obama refuses to negotiate at all, even on the parts he told everyone he didn't support, and is willing to shut down the government and cause people as much visible pain as possible.

      Your king sucks at being The President.

    15. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Propaganda. The facts are somewhat different. Military base golf courses are not run by the government. The Amber Alert system is LOCAL, not federal, and the website that was taken down was not part of the alert distribution system.

    16. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Amber alerts themselves still work, just not a single page on the DOJ's site that lists them, so 'ehh' to your statement about that, and about the golf courses, I'll give you credit when he uses them. Otherwise it is the AFB who decided what to keep open and what to shut (probably keeping the course open since I'm guessing they MAKE money by allowing people to pay to go there OR they are deemed a cost effective way for people to relieve stress. Both of which are good. (I don't play golf, or know anything about those golf courses, but still)

      -AC

    17. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To add insult to injury, the administration decided to take down the Amber Alerts website, blaming the shutdown, but Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" website is still up.

      Amber Alert seems to still be running. And there's plenty of sites that contradict your claim that it was shutdown, just an info page on a DOJ site was shutdown.

      So in other words, you start off with a deceit that was nothing more than empty manufactured hysteria. The very same thing you're complaining about.

      Huh.

      Telling.

      Also Let's Move's funding isn't just federal, they have many private sources. That's probably what is paying for the Website because you know a Republican Congress can't possibly pay for anybody to be healthy. That's COMMUNIST!

    18. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget helicopters 24/7 holding a drape to block the view of Mount Rushmore, and WWII vets being piled into paddy wagons.

      I'm quite happy we have heroes like Ted Cruz that have the gumption to stop this man in his tracks whatever the cost.

    19. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's a shame that that totalitarian is forcing the ACA on us with no democratic process. Ok, it's a law and all, but at least they could have waited until the supreme court ruled on it! Oh wait, they did, and the wackos won't accept that and are willing to drive the country to the brink of a debt default (I assume not further than that) to make a pointless point that they don't like this president.

    20. Re:Compromise Opportunity by edmanet · · Score: 1

      If it is easier for Obama to talk with radical extremists from Iran than it is with Congress then maybe Congress is the problem.

    21. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is a fucking national park you retard, of course it is closed. and it did not "Close the ocean" as you claim, it is a bay which is a god damn national park.

    22. Re:Compromise Opportunity by sqrt(2) · · Score: 3, Informative

      The ACA is the compromise. The Democrat idea was single payer Medicare for all. We compromised and used the Republican model proposed in the 90s, and implemented a decade later by Republican Governor Romney in Massachusetts. The ACA passed both houses of Congress. It was signed by the President. It was upheld by the Supreme Court. The Republicans in the house tried over 40 times to repeal it and failed. They are now throwing a temper tantrum because they can't get their way through the established, official, channels. They're not willing to accept that they lost this fight. They'd rather burn everything down than see the other side score a legitimate victory. It's scorched Earth. Spite.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    23. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amber Alert is still up and has been since the first reports of it being down went online.

      Incidentally, since when does the internet suddenly support the nation wide manhunt program being operational?

    24. Re:Compromise Opportunity by sqrt(2) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When you don't use the word "Obamacare" and you go through the ACA provision by provision, it's overwhelmingly supported. You have to use scaremongering and knee-jerk words, to get people to say they are against it. Ask people, do they think insurance providers should be able to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions? Overwhelming answer is no. ACA does this. Children stay on until 26? They answer yes. ACA does this. And on and on.

      And why do you think the Democrats controlled all three branches? How did that happen? They were voted in.

      The Republicans biggest fear right now is that they won't be able to stop the ACA in time before people start seeing the benefits, and then they'll never be able to get rid of it just like Social Security and Medicare. Once people see first hand that social programs can actually work, and work well, it becomes a lot harder to sell their private market, anti-government, rhetoric. The ACA is a threat to their brand.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    25. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "He didn't [try to] shut down the ocean"

      Haha. Even the Obama supporting site you linked to admitted that no one would be allowed to drop anchor or fish in the 1,100sq mile section of ocean. They'd only be able to pass through. It just labeled the statement 'false' in the hopes that people wouldn't read the article.

      I don't know how you could ever post something from Politifact with a straight face.

    26. Re:Compromise Opportunity by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      But do you see how absurd that is? They're acting like the government is what makes these national parks work. Like they'll "shut down" without the government. And in order to enforce the "shut down" the must actually employ rangers to keep people out. If it were a real shut down, the rangers would be sent home and the national parks would actually be open for anyone to go into.

    27. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So thats the top of your head we see in pictures of the resolute desk.

    28. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. You're one of those people that thinks anyone who disagrees with you should be silenced. You must be right, so anyone who has a different opinion must be wrong. Go find some ultra leftist, socialist, government loving website. You'll be in heaven.

    29. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Biscayne Bay, is where Dexter dumps his victims. With a boat. In the ocean. There's no gate to close, no faucet to turn off, no electrical switch to throw.

    30. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Bartles · · Score: 1

      The provisions may be supported on an individual basis. But this law is enforced as a whole. When people see the full scope and the real world consequences, they reject it.

    31. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Military base golf courses are not run by the government.

      Neither is Mt Vernon, people's homes on Lake Mead, inn's and restaurants on the Blue Ridge Parkway, and many others.

    32. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Bartles · · Score: 1

      It was a compromise with themselves you idiot. They couldn't even get support in their own party for single payer. Republican were excluded from the process at every step.

    33. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You're going to reference The Examiner for the park ranger quote? Come on.

      Pick your side of the news (CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, BBC, Al-Jazeera) and repeat the quote.

      I don't think there is an unbiased news source out there left in the world. A touch of fact with a huge helping of opinion equals news now days.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    34. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      Libertarian here, not Republican. I dislike Republicans and Democracts about equally. ACA is a disaster for several reasons, but the one that really cannot be argued or dismissed as mere partisan ranting is that it does nothing to fix the underlying problem of why health care costs so much here. It is because supply of health care products and services is artificially, deliberately, and dramatically restricted so as to protect the incomes and profits of doctors, hospitals, drug companies, and other powerful interests. The best ACA can do is to shift this high cost around, no doubt rewarding some and punishing others. It will remain high regardless, though, because what we really need, and still will not get, are: (a) more and thus less expensive doctors; (b) more and therefore less expensive hospital capacity; (c) more and therefore less expensive medical supplies; and (d) more and therefore less expensive drugs. All from competing providers, who are allowed to advertise about their costs, success rates, reputations, and so forth. And all without arbitrary limits.

    35. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This guy is right. The Republicans forgot how the ACA is already funded for 10 years, making this government shutdown futile. They were assuming if people never got the chance to have ACA, they would continue to hate it for no reason. The shutdown was planned months in advance by the Heritage Foundation, which is essentially the Koch brothers.

    36. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Including actual success rates, and failure rates, because a successful outcome is arbitrary anyway. If somebody lived 5 hours after a procedure, then clearly it was a complete success, and they couldn't have died from anything related to what happened in the OR.

      Ok, a bit over the top there, but you know what? All of that advertisement you're talking about will have to have some standard to it, and people will find a way to exploit them. As they already do. Results-based medicine is a scam. Oddly brought about by trying to make it a free-market.

    37. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You bitch about the examiner and then quote Bloomberg? Fuck you and everything you love you low life liberal sack of fucking shit.

    38. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Children stay on until 26

      At 26 they arent a child anymore. So sick of fucktards like you moving the goal posts. And no, it isn't overwhelmingly supported, people are just too fucking stupid to realize what the consequences are. People like you that think Obama can just turn the printing presses on and we'll all run off to our little fucking utopia. Fuck off jackass.

    39. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they were voted back out in 2010. To continue in 2014.

      Its funny that there are still cheerleaders like you after the massive amounts of complaints of ** WAIT FOR IT ** - higher premiums, deductibles and various out of pocket expenses.

      I have an idea for you to try: Piss up a rope.

    40. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      If you were aware of history, you'd know the USA has been much more totalitarian in the past. Say, the 1950s.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    41. Re:Compromise Opportunity by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1
      Uhh compromised? Not one single republican voted for it. Who compromised and who were they compromising with? That doesn't make sense. 100% of one party passed the the bill but it was a "compromise". Wow. You're too smart for me.

      Also, Democrats were elected to a super majority, and now Republicans have the house. But they weren't voted in. Doesn't count unless it was for a Democrat I guess.

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
    42. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm for whatever, let's just make sure it's paid for. If you can't pay for it, then it shouldn't go into effect period. So if you want to pass all sorts of legislation benefiting people that's cool, just make sure you raise taxes to pay for it. I am not ok with approving funding for whatever sounds good without having funding for it. I think a limit is supposed to be a limit. It's not so you can willy nilly raise it whenever you reach it. Spend what you should have. Not what you feel you should have. That's what republicans like me are upset with. Not necessarily the legislation approving this that or the other, but instead the blatant disregard for funding this that or the other.

    43. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea itself is Republican. They chose to sit out and not be a part of the process out of spite for the President. Their loss. They could have been adults about it and had a seat at the table. They were welcomed to participate in good faith as reasonable adults. They chose to be obstructionists and just say no, no matter what. Say it with me:

      "The individual mandate is a conservative idea. It was invented by Republicans."

    44. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you ask Americans what policy positions they support on a provision by provision basis, they overwhelmingly support Republican party platform positions. The sum of the parts doesn't always dictate the whole.

      When Ted Kennedy passed away and there was a special election, Scott Brown became the first Republican senator in MA since 1972. Why do you think that happened? And why do you think Democrats lost control of the House in the very next election?

      I don't know anyone who denies that social programs can work. The critical questions are:
      1. Is it the most efficient way to handle a problem?
      2. Can we afford them as a country?

      You mention Social Security and Medicare. Those 2 social programs accounted for 43% of federal spending last year, and they are expected to take a larger percent of the pie every year for the foreseeable future. I don't consider that working "well".

    45. Re:Compromise Opportunity by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Wow, "-1 Flamebait"? Really?

      Maybe I'm not being clear enough here..

      I don't think things would be any better overall no matter which of the major "establishment" Parties were in power. They together are the ones that very intentionally guided us all here to this sorry state.

      Both want as close to total monitoring and control of the population as they can get. It's just a fight over which faction gets the lion's-share of the power and the spoils.

      The NSA conveniently has plenty of data to ruin/convict/destroy any politician, or most anyone else, who gets too far out of line and causes too many problems for the ruling elite.

      The real fight is not liberal/conservative, capitalist/socialist, etc/etc, it's Authoritarianism vs Libertarianism, as in the big concepts, not any particular party. Under that filter, both major US parties are nearly indistinguishable.

      Libertarianism vs Authoritarianism is basically the struggle between those who would want to live with the default being as much individual freedom as possible, versus those who believe individuals and everything about them and their lives as possible should be under as much monitoring & control of the State apparatus as possible.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    46. Re:Compromise Opportunity by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      "Child" in this situation is used in the sense of the word describing a person's relationship to other persons. I will always be the child of my mother and father in the sense that I came from their genetic material. No matter how old I am, I will always be their child in that sense. I will not always be a child in the sense of a "young person".

      Maybe English isn't your first language? Keep at it, it's hard even for natives sometimes.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    47. Re:Compromise Opportunity by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      If you were aware of history, you'd know the USA has been much more totalitarian in the past. Say, the 1950s.

      sarc/ Well, that's different then!

      Bring on the oppression, both domestic and international! Just keep all the various forms of abuse/corruption and international skulduggery just *slightly* less-bad than it has ever been in the past.

      After all, as long as whatever government corruption or abuse of power under discussion is not as bad as some arbitrary worst-case point in history, then all is fine, right? /sarc

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    48. Re:Compromise Opportunity by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You're going to reference The Examiner for the park ranger quote? Come on.

      Pick your side of the news (CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, BBC, Al-Jazeera) and repeat the quote.

      I don't think there is an unbiased news source out there left in the world. A touch of fact with a huge helping of opinion equals news now days.

      I did a quick search for the park ranger quote before I posted and I didn't see any of the sites you list. I did see the examiner - top of the search results - and I don't put much stock in them as a news source at all, never mind unbiased.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    49. Re:Compromise Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure are a whiny little twit, aren't you? Republicans excluded themselves, comparing Obama to Hitler and organizing "protests" where they did nothing but scream at everyone. Not once did a significant number of Republicans attempt to honestly engage in normal political discourse. And then Democrats went ahead and passed the Republican plan anyways.

      Maybe if you stop trying to break their toys, and stop throwing temper tantrums, the other children will play with you.

    50. Re:Compromise Opportunity by markwilt · · Score: 0

      Well, English is my first language, and I happen to be able to utilize it effectively. In this case, I agree w/ AC. For any of a number of legal reasons, and in most states, with certain exceptions (e.g., mental/physical disabilities; pursuit of a college education), the emancipation of minor children occurs at the age of eighteen years. Shoot, the privilege of voting is granted at that same age. Therefore, the responsibilities commensurate with that privilege are assumed. If you want the privilege of participating in how your life plays out, you should at least take some of the responsibility of participating in how your life plays out. Or would you rather "have your cake & eat it too"?

  7. Thats actually HTML6 code! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a webpage can "stink" via TCP/IP

    1. Re:Thats actually HTML6 code! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, just an additional MIME type.

      Content type: odor/nasty

  8. Computer ? Website ? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ? Surely, by definition, a sizable portion of the population that requires Obamacare doesn't necessarily have the means to have a computer or an internet connection.

    And no, "anybody has a computer these days" is not an answer. I know plenty of people who don't have enough to feed themselves, let alone buy a computer - let alone one that's recent enough to cope with plugins that invariably tell you "your operating system / browser is not supported anymore, please upgrade." every 6 months.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Computer ? Website ? by isorox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ? Surely, by definition, a sizable portion of the population that requires Obamacare doesn't necessarily have the means to have a computer or an internet connection.

      And no, "anybody has a computer these days" is not an answer. I know plenty of people who don't have enough to feed themselves, let alone buy a computer - let alone one that's recent enough to cope with plugins that invariably tell you "your operating system / browser is not supported anymore, please upgrade." every 6 months.

      Do you have libraries in america?

    2. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Narcocide · · Score: 0

      Most libraries in rural America are generally exclusively for books on non-controversial topics. Even if you could convince the communities to fund computers in the library as a more efficient delivery method for said approved books you would never trick them into believing the internet doesn't represent an unacceptable risk of exposure to controversial information.

    3. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Cornwallis · · Score: 1

      Source? As it simply isn't true. What IS unfortunate is the loss of the old card catalogs. It used to be the case that multiple people could access the card catalog simultaneously but with the advent of PCs most have been replaced with a library-software equipped PC which limits use to the numbers of PCs on-hand. For a small library that is typically one.

    4. Re:Computer ? Website ? by linuxguy · · Score: 4, Informative

      > Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ?

      Obamacare by phone: 800-318-2596

    5. Re:Computer ? Website ? by N3x)( · · Score: 1

      I believe the solution you're looking for is called a phone. Most people have access to such a device.

    6. Re:Computer ? Website ? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Any computer from the last 10 years would run a web browser well enough. We actually pay people to get rid of our old IT equipment. You really can get an old computer if you want one. Even if you don't want one, you're bound to have a friend, or even a friend of a friend, who has a computer, and probably would be willing to help out for you signing up to Obamacare if you asked nicely.

      In some countries, internet access is already a basic human right.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:Computer ? Website ? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      What IS unfortunate is the loss of the old card catalogs. It used to be the case that multiple people could access the card catalog simultaneously but with the advent of PCs most have been replaced with a library-software equipped PC which limits use to the numbers of PCs on-hand. For a small library that is typically one.

      Don't worry, the current administration is implementing the solution as we post!

      After "Common Core" has been fully implemented for a generation or two, there won't be enough people around who are literate to worry about lines/waiting for the library catalog PC. Bonus, very seldom will you encounter "already on loan" when searching for a particular book.

      "We're from the government and we're here to help."

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    8. Re:Computer ? Website ? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ? Surely, by definition, a sizable portion of the population that requires Obamacare doesn't necessarily have the means to have a computer or an internet connection.

      And no, "anybody has a computer these days" is not an answer. I know plenty of people who don't have enough to feed themselves, let alone buy a computer - let alone one that's recent enough to cope with plugins that invariably tell you "your operating system / browser is not supported anymore, please upgrade." every 6 months.

      Do you have libraries in america?

      You would advise people to input personal details into public access workstations?

      Bad IT professional. No. Off to bed with no supper.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:Computer ? Website ? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ? Surely, by definition, a sizable portion of the population that requires Obamacare doesn't necessarily have the means to have a computer or an internet connection.

      And no, "anybody has a computer these days" is not an answer. I know plenty of people who don't have enough to feed themselves, let alone buy a computer - let alone one that's recent enough to cope with plugins that invariably tell you "your operating system / browser is not supported anymore, please upgrade." every 6 months.

      If they can't afford a computer then they're most likely already on title 19 medical and don't need Obamacare.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    10. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obamacare doesn't do a single thing to help people who can't feed themselves. Only people who make BETWEEN 100% and 400% of the poverty level get subsidies from obamacare. If you live in poverty you don't get any benefit.

    11. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is not one of those countries...

      The only basic right we have here left is to pay taxes. Everything else well... Fuck you pay me.

    12. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't live in the Bible Belt. Or Michele Bachmann's district.

    13. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.healthcare.gov/how-do-i-get-help-enrolling-in-the-marketplace/

    14. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well installing a camera above the card catalog cabinet with face recognition software so the NSA could know the books an US citizen was looking for was obviously too expensive. A PC that records all your search with a hidden webcam is obviously much cheaper. But don't worry, if the NSA doesn't know which books the title you look at, it can't protect you.

    15. Re:Computer ? Website ? by killfixx · · Score: 2

      Actually, I know many families that can't make enough to afford a computer but make too much to get free health insurance... or even reduced price lunches for their kids...

      Not everyone on slashdot makes a great living... Some of us are just getting by...

      --
      "Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
    16. Re:Computer ? Website ? by dwpro · · Score: 1

      That is a valid concern, but I don't see a reasonable alternative...what did you have in mind?

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    17. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ?.

      The answer is they can either send in paper applications or call a phone line, at least in some state run exchanges (not sure about the federal one).

    18. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you are correct, but if they are here on slashdot they have a computer.

    19. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the NSA could operate NSA internet café that are free (as in free beer) but where all your private data transferred to a remote NSA data farm and deleted from the local station at the end of the session. With webcams and face recognition software, you wouldn't even have to log in. Of course, later on, more functionalities could be added such as a having to answer some questions before the start of your sessions; questions such as "Does your neighbors express anti american sentiments?".

    20. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, all the poor people I know have the latest iPhone... surely they can use that?

    21. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Citation Needed]

      As someone from a rural town in America (3,000 people), our library had multiple computers and several controversial titles. I remember checking out The Handmaid's Tale at one point. Though, it wasn't a very large library. It was in a network with other libraries in the area so that if one library had the book you wanted, it could be mailed to your local library and you could check it out the normal way after that.

      Keep your tin foil hat on, though, and make sure to seal the edges of the rock you're under.

    22. Re:Computer ? Website ? by moschner · · Score: 1

      If you or someone you know does not have access to a computer (or the site is stillf fubar) they may call 1-800-318-2596. There are usually some long wait times.
      Most pharmacies should have phamplets about the ACA and that state's Marketplace (if the state has one). RiteAid is offering free Affordable Care counseling, no appointment or website needed. They are also offering a number to call if you need help understandin the ACA or do not have a RiteAid near you: 1-855-880-8777.

    23. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Jon_S · · Score: 1

      I know I should just ignore such rants, but come on! What has the administration have to do with common core? An initiative sponsored by the National Governors Association (NGA) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO).

    24. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Talderas · · Score: 1

      So the answer to how to enroll without the aid of a computer requires a computer?

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    25. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Gramie2 · · Score: 1

      But on the other hand, I can search my library's catalog from the comfort of my own home (or car, or while I'm walking...) and reserve items, and receive an e-mail when they are available.

    26. Re:Computer ? Website ? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Well, killfixx apparently has a computer, but knows many families who don't. So, he is just getting by, but can afford a cheap computer. The other families probably have children, and put their meager paycheck into food, clothing, and other essentials, which doesn't include computers.

      Alternatively, he is reading and posting while at work, and doesn't actually own a computer himself. This is less likely than the assumption above.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    27. Re:Computer ? Website ? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      If pharmacies have ACA phamplets, do I find ACA pamphlets in parking lots? ;^)

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    28. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are also various forms of in-person assistance.
      Navigators, Certified Application Counselors, and any insurance agents that have gone through the online "Marketplace Training".

      As yet public outreach on these is on a state-by-state basis unfortunately. I suspect the surest, quickest method to get in-person assistance at the moment is to contact the state Blue Cross carrier (assuming they're on the Exchange) and ask them for contact information for local agents that have had the training.

    29. Re:Computer ? Website ? by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      If you're below the poverty line (actually 133% of it) you will now qualify for Medicaid. So, actually, the ACA does the most for those people. They have single payer now with almost no out of pocket expenses--and literally none for a lot of the worst off. Now, getting them to actually utilize preventative care and routine doctor visits instead of the ER is going to be harder. People in poverty are notoriously non-compliant with their physician's directions.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    30. Re:Computer ? Website ? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Obamacare doesn't do a single thing to help people who can't feed themselves. Only people who make BETWEEN 100% and 400% of the poverty level get subsidies from obamacare. If you live in poverty you don't get any benefit.

      Idiot. If you're below the poverty line you are very likely eligible for Medicaid / Medical / whateverthehelldumbnametheycallit in your state.

      You already have better coverage than most.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    31. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its probably about as good an using the average non technical person's Windows XP with IE6 and 35 toolbars.

    32. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ? Surely, by definition, a sizable portion of the population that requires Obamacare doesn't necessarily have the means to have a computer or an internet connection.

      And no, "anybody has a computer these days" is not an answer. I know plenty of people who don't have enough to feed themselves, let alone buy a computer - let alone one that's recent enough to cope with plugins that invariably tell you "your operating system / browser is not supported anymore, please upgrade." every 6 months.

      Do you have libraries in america?

      You would advise people to input personal details into public access workstations?

      Bad IT professional. No. Off to bed with no supper.

      While you have a valid concern for average folks, the types of which you are speaking regularly rely on libraries for conducting job searches, accessing government programs, and doing all manner of pretty "private" stuff. It's safe to assume that for most the thought of someone in Russia opening a credit card in their name is pretty low on the worry list.

      Bad metaphor time: if someone's spurtign arterial blood you don't insist on only using a clean compression bandage when none is available, you go ahead and use your stinky shirt.

    33. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any computer from the last 10 years would run a web browser well enough. We actually pay people to get rid of our old IT equipment. You really can get an old computer if you want one. Even if you don't want one, you're bound to have a friend, or even a friend of a friend, who has a computer, and probably would be willing to help out for you signing up to Obamacare if you asked nicely.

      But this doesn't take into account people who can't get sufficient bandwidth. I tried to view ACA link in the article and gave up. I'm at near dial-up speed. I don't even live in the sticks but I live in an older area where I'm 20,000 ft. from my CO and getting even DSL is an issue. Regardless of what kind of economic status you are it gets old when all web content assumes a megabit or higher connectivity. There is no reason for it sans the people who develop "enterprise crapware" usually develop on a local 1Gbps LAN or run the server locally. They never tend to consider what happens when you have a slow pipe.

    34. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why the law has something called 'Navigators', people in the local community that help you handle sign-up in an offline manner.

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ACA+navigators

    35. Re:Computer ? Website ? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ?

      You can apply over the phone - or in person at various places, if available if your area/state and not specifically prohibited by a state/local Republican administration (not trolling, just stating a fact that exists). Sure, finding *that* information is presently problematic w/o a computer, but that should get worked out over time.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    36. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Handmaid's Tale is controversial? You have a strange definition of controversial.

    37. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Bartles · · Score: 1

      That's racist.

    38. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly question, but... what happens when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ? Surely, by definition, a sizable portion of the population that requires Obamacare doesn't necessarily have the means to have a computer or an internet connection.

      And no, "anybody has a computer these days" is not an answer. I know plenty of people who don't have enough to feed themselves, let alone buy a computer - let alone one that's recent enough to cope with plugins that invariably tell you "your operating system / browser is not supported anymore, please upgrade." every 6 months.

      I was waiting for this to come up, since Fox News was trying this angle last week (who knew they're so concerned about the really poor people?). The answer is you can call a local hotline (varies by location) or go to an in person office to register with face-to-face help. The specifics (phone number, address of offices) vary by state, and each state has its own "marketing" fund of sorts to get the word out. I live in Washington state, and there have been a lot of radio ads and "raise awareness" type of billboards, etc.

    39. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It stands to reason that if these people are so poor off that they cannot afford a computer ($500 for a competent one), that they likely don't have much worth taking.

    40. Re:Computer ? Website ? by notanalien_justgreen · · Score: 1

      There's a phone number you can call too. Don't know if that's operating any better than the website, but it exists...

    41. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean 800-F U-CKYO? Literally?

    42. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In conservative driven states, they are going away quickly. In my state the only libraries left are the county funded libraries, and they are now on donation basis, and most likely not going to last for another year or so. The funding has been redirected to law enforcement. I cannot vouch for other states that are losing their libraries at an alarming rate however.

    43. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some countries, internet access is already a basic human right.

      How DARE you mention such travesties!! In America, we don't BELIEVE in basic human rights! If you can't afford to eat, you DESERVE to starve! If you get sick and can't afford healthcare, by God you DESERVE to die (and PRAISED be His Name while you suffer!) If internet access ever becomes a "fundamental" right that the socialist lefty Dems care so much about, my hard earned taxes would go towards some anime fan jerking off to internet porn!

    44. Re:Computer ? Website ? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Actually, I know many families that can't make enough to afford a computer but make too much to get free health insurance... or even reduced price lunches for their kids...

      Not everyone on slashdot makes a great living... Some of us are just getting by...

      Okay...but going with these do these families not know anyone with a computer they could use for a bit to do whatever applying they need to?

      This kind of stuck nowhere situation really sucks. It's truly depressing to see America heading full steam ahead to being a third world country.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    45. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're looping. We were already there, dude.

      >what did you[/they] have in mind [when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ?]

    46. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're looping. We were already there, dude.

      >what did you[/they] have in mind [when you want to apply and you don't have a computer ?]

      -ACFalos

    47. Re:Computer ? Website ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1-800-F1UCKYO.

      The current assignee of the 1-800-FUCKYOU number (a phone sex line) has now updated their initial recording greeting with a message asking callers to indicate whether or not they are calling about Obamacare.

  9. Alternatives?? by eclectro · · Score: 2

    Why can't they just drop a contract in Oracle's lap to handle the website from start to finish? There has to be more than one CRM platform out there.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    1. Re:Alternatives?? by jcr · · Score: 2

      Google for the Oracle California DMV disaster.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Alternatives?? by linuxguy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oregon did just that. About $50mil later they had a website that did not work for the first few days. And it is a view-only site to begin with.

      Giving lots of money to a large company is no guarantee of success.

    3. Re:Alternatives?? by CadentOrange · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oracle?

      Well played sir. I can't tell if you're trolling or being serious.

    4. Re:Alternatives?? by eclectro · · Score: 1

      I haven't been following the marketplace (and why I asked the question in the first place), so I would not know who would be the best to go with. But clearly there are services that can handle the load.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    5. Re:Alternatives?? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Lotus Notes is what all the kool kids are using these days.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Alternatives?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oregon did just that. About $50mil later they had a website that did not work for the first few days. And it is a view-only site to begin with.

      Giving lots of money to a large company is no guarantee of success.

      I used the site to pull up multiple quotes on October 1. I did it at several points during the day. The only issue was some pretty bad slowness during the workday (and some dubious form validation that was technically correct while being absolutely moronic from a usability perspective).

      All in all, I got exactly what I wanted out of it, day 1: able to check if cheaper plans were available to cover my child. It turns out there were and I have months to actually confirm and enroll her.

      Several of my local friends also expressed to me that they had used it the same day.

      I don't know what your definition of not working is, but you seem to have a strange one.

    7. Re:Alternatives?? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Because Oracle sales reps are convinced there is no problem that won't be solved by magic faeries if you'll just drop another quarter mil on Oracle licenses.

  10. I'm confused by isorox · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm confused, I thought that nobody wanted obamacare?

    1. Re:I'm confused by gumper23 · · Score: 0

      By that logic many want to be in a devastating car crash because they slow down to look at the carnage?

    2. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      " thought that nobody wanted obamacare?"

      Many millions will lose their current insurance on Jan 1 because of Obamacare. The law makes it illegal to sell certain types of insurance, and they're forced to sell you prepackaged insurance similar to the way cable companies package channels.

      Those millions don't want obamacare. They just have no choice. But on the plus side, most will get to pay more for it.

    3. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obama sure wants it, so much so that he's (him & US Senate) shut down the government so it can be funded.

    4. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or maybe we could take a little pain now to avoid a truly catastrophic debt problem in 2020. As it stands now, Medicare and Medicaid entitlements will contribute to an overwhelming portion of that debt (>75%).

      It's (very) far from perfect but Obamacare is at least a first step toward doing something about it, like making the proverbial sausage.

      Perhaps we can come together and actually build something better from it. Instead of cutting off our noses to spite our collective faces.

    5. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The law makes it illegal to sell certain types of insurance, and they're forced to sell you prepackaged insurance similar to the way cable companies package channels.

      Yes, the law forbids selling insurance plans with fixed "lifetime caps." Especially those where the payout cap is less than the cost of many major treatments. Now, some people may argue that people who signed up for those very low cost programs did so with full knowledge that their "coverage" wouldn't actually pay their bills, and I'm sure the commissioned sales agents went out of their way to explain this risk, but it sure does seem like a short road to fraud.

      ACA also bans policies with "preexisting condition" clauses. Those policies allowed insurance companies to offer substantial discounts to customers who could prove they were healthy and unlikely to actually need anything but trauma care. Unfortunately, they did so by punishing people with genetic predispositions or family history of certain diseases with extremely high premiums. Insurance is about spreading the cost of unusual but expensive events across a large pool of people - essentially averaging the cost and risk - and biasing the cost towards those with the most risk is certainly a legitimate strategy. On the other hand, it seems "unfair" to subject certain people to 3x or 4x insurance premiums just because of who their parents are.

      So, yeah, people who were paying for "scam" health insurance are going to have to get "real" health insurance, and real coverage costs more. Likewise, the hordes of healthy, unemployed young people are going to have to pay a little more (or stay on their parents' plan) to reduce the costs to the few really sick people. But that's the whole idea behind insurance.

    6. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Obamacare was THE major issue of the 2012 election and he won. GET THE FUCK OVER IT. If the situation were reversed and democrats were demanding the abolishion of the second amendment, threatening a government shutdown if it wasn't done, would you be insisting that republicans "compromise"?

    7. Re:I'm confused by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Nobody wants to pay for Obamacare, but once the state's already gotten your money, you might as well get what value you can out of it.

      Besides, who says many people want it? This article's about the fragility of the site, and how to doesn't cope even without load.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    8. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe we could take a little pain now to avoid a truly catastrophic debt problem in 2020. As it stands now, Medicare and Medicaid entitlements will contribute to an overwhelming portion of that debt (>75%).

      And this does that how exactly?

      Serious question, in the midst of people losing insurance and paying grossly higher premiums even if they're not on Obama's Discount "Still Guys, Try Not to Get Sick" Insurance.

      Is it.... Unicorn farts? I bet it's unicorn farts, isn't it? That makes sense.

    9. Re:I'm confused by RoccamOccam · · Score: 0
      The Republicans also won. Remember, all of the members of the House of Representatives were elected in 2012.

      The best reverse comparison that you could come up with is the "abolishion" of the second amendment? Seriously?

    10. Re:I'm confused by argStyopa · · Score: 0

      What part of "...they believe flaws in system architecture, not traffic alone, contribute to the problems. ..." is unclear?

      Remember, ALL of this effort is on behalf of less than 10% of the population who allegedly didn't have healthcare - it was stated as "30 million" during the Obamacare debate.

      (Setting aside the inclusion of foreign nationals, etc that were used to inflate that number in the first place...)

      --
      -Styopa
    11. Re:I'm confused by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

      Nobody wants to pay income tax either - but like signing up for Obamacare, we're all legally obligated to do so.

      --


      "Lame" - Galaxar
    12. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple, by not letting the federal gov't continue to get raped paying the uncapped hospital bills for the uninsured. By putting them in a single pool the costs can be capped. For those who already have private insurance they're not affected except for higher premiums (the pain the op was talking about).

      The biggest problem is that the bill doesn't provide enough competitive pressure to the insurers. That was forced out of the ACA bill by the Republicans and basically neutered it. Hopefully that will be fixed in the not too distant future.

    13. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I had my way you can bet your gun-toting-fear-controlled ass I'd abolish the second amendment. But unlike republicans, I understand that I won't get my way on the issue and I accept it because I care about my country *MORE* than I care about imposing policy. But of course Republicans only care about people who vote for them, so they feel no shame in fucking over anyone and everyone for as long as necessary until they get everything they want all the time. Republicans are basically just toddlers in power suits.

    14. Re:I'm confused by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      That was a result of gerrymandering, and thus, invalid. Doesn't count.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    15. Re:I'm confused by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      Was it legal? Yes. It counts.

    16. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody wants to pay income tax either - but like signing up for Obamacare, we're all legally obligated to do so.

      You only have to sign up for Obamacare if you don't have insurance through your employer and if you aren't already enrolled in a qualifying private plan. Since the overwhelming majority of Americans get health insurance through their employers, it's really a small part of the country that has to sign up. They don't have to sign up, and coverage won't even start, until January. That so many people have overcome their procrastination and tried to sign up on day 1 seems to be a pretty good indication of high demand.

    17. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insurance is about spreading the cost of unusual but expensive events across a large pool of people - essentially averaging the cost and risk - and biasing the cost towards those with the most risk is certainly a legitimate strategy.

      I don't get it. If insurance really is about "spreading the cost", then how does it follow that biasing the cost a legitimate strategy?

      "Spreading the costs" spreads the risk among all groups. Rate-biasing concentrates risk onto certain subgroups. How are those two things anything but diametrically opposite of each other?

    18. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The law makes it illegal to sell certain types of insurance, and they're forced to sell you prepackaged insurance similar to the way cable companies package channels.

      Yes, the law forbids selling insurance plans with fixed "lifetime caps." Especially those where the payout cap is less than the cost of many major treatments. Now, some people may argue that people who signed up for those very low cost programs did so with full knowledge that their "coverage" wouldn't actually pay their bills, and I'm sure the commissioned sales agents went out of their way to explain this risk, but it sure does seem like a short road to fraud.

      Insurance Plan A: High copay, low lifetime cap, very low monthly premium
      Insurance Plan B: Moderate copay, moderate lifetime cap, low monthly premium
      Insurance Plan C: Low copay, high lifetime cap, moderate monthly premium
      Insurance Plan D: No copay, extremely high lifetime cap, high monthly premium
      Insurance Plan E: High copay, no lifetime cap, exorbitant monthly premium
      Insurance Plan F: Moderate copay, no lifetime cap, exorbitant monthly premium
      Insurance Plan G: No copay, no lifetime cap, exorbitant monthly premium

      Everyone who wanted to save money on their monthly bills, at the risk of catastrophic loss, could have chosen from Plans A or B. This would be ideal for young adults just starting out, who have very low risk of cancer, heart disease, or failing organs.

      As people get into a career, (professional, union, independent, whatever) they could move into the higher insurance categories such as Plan C or D. Families may choose Plan C specifically, in case a child does have a high-cost condition.

      But now, plans A-D are being shut down, and everyone is being forced to buy Plan E, F or G. Notice what those plans have in common.

      ACA also bans policies with "preexisting condition" clauses.

      Which is the other main reason the future insurance plans will have exorbitant monthly premiums.

      Those policies allowed insurance companies to offer substantial discounts to customers who could prove they were healthy and unlikely to actually need anything but trauma care. Unfortunately, they did so by punishing people with genetic predispositions or family history of certain diseases with extremely high premiums. Insurance is about spreading the cost of unusual but expensive events across a large pool of people - essentially averaging the cost and risk - and biasing the cost towards those with the most risk is certainly a legitimate strategy. On the other hand, it seems "unfair" to subject certain people to 3x or 4x insurance premiums just because of who their parents are.

      Do you keep full insurance on a 20-year-old Buick? Especially insurance that covers every mechanical and electrical system in the car? If you did have such coverage, would you expect to pay the same as the guy that has basic coverage? It may seem unfair to base insurance rates on people's likelihood (damn, that's a hard word to make my fingers type) of future, or even immediate, use of such insurance, but that is truly what insurance is.

      So, yeah, people who were paying for "scam" health insurance are going to have to get "real" health insurance, and real coverage costs more. Likewise, the hordes of healthy, unemployed young people are going to have to pay a little more (or stay on their parents' plan) to reduce the costs to the few really sick people. But that's the whole idea behind insurance.

      No, that's the whole idea behind Obamacare. The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    19. Re:I'm confused by tepples · · Score: 1

      Was slavery legal prior to 1863 CE? Yes. Was slavery right prior to 1863 CE? No.

    20. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Republicans also won. Remember, all of the members of the House of Representatives were elected in 2012.

      I remember voting in a gerrymandered district, where 51% of the Republican part picked some radial tea-party douchebag, which a significant majority of the district hates. Without gerrymandering by either party, the Republicans would not have won the house. Defenders of democracy, my ass.

    21. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Everyone who wanted to save money on their monthly bills, at the risk of catastrophic loss

      Wrong. Unfortunately for you America has a policy where it won't let underinsured people die. What you should have said: everyone can save money on their monthly bills at the risk of having the hospital, government, and taxpayers subsidize your crappy plan when you get sick.

      If you can get everyone to agree that people should just die when their insurance runs out, then you can have the scenario you described. Until then, you're living in a fantasy world.

    22. Re:I'm confused by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Do other developed Western nations' socialized healthcare programs have lifetime caps?

      If not, isn't it safe to say that lack of lifetime caps isn't the reason our healthcare is so expensive?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    23. Re:I'm confused by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.
      This is only your perception because you lived in a country that historically had a bad health care system.
      Insurance is certainly not a tax. Taxes are spent at will by the government for various reasons. Insurance means: a pool of money is created and spent for a dedicated goal.
      As other governments figured 100 years ago (in fact I think it is roughly 125 years ago) no one is young enough to be healthy after he was hit by a car, or crashed with his motorbike or dropped into an empty swimming pool or burned his hand on a stove.
      All those people you call "are young and healthy" get ill or get hurt eventually or get old and need constant treatment. Having them paying into the pool when they are young makes healthcare for the old cheaper, and sooner or later they all get old, if they don't die by accident (and cause costs due to their death).
      So your point of view is bluntly said: retarded.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    24. Re:I'm confused by emag · · Score: 1

      If the situation were reversed and democrats were demanding the abolishion of the second amendment

      The Constitution doesn't work that way. To make it apples to apples, drop ACA in the current form, recraft it as a Constitutional amendment (which would require a 2/3 supermajority of *both* houses of Congress, or a national convention at the request of 2/3 of the state legislatures, but no amendment's ever successfully come out of that, so we're stuck with Congress...), and get 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Then you'll have a comparison of like to like.

      --
      "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
    25. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like paying my taxes. With them, I purchase civilization.

      You're also not legally obligated to sign up for insurance. You can elect to go without, and pay a bit more in taxes instead if you're not exempt.

    26. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's insightful. So the whole liberal rant about people being bankrupted by medical bills is a lie. Is that what you are saying? Because that is what your words are saying.

      Here's a note from your fellow liberals: Shut up you dork, you are giving them talking points to fight our talking points.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    27. Re:I'm confused by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, the ACA is the first step to fixing the problem with funding for Medicare and Medicaid by expanding them?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    28. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      The problem there is you are conflating "health care" and "health insurance". Socialized healthcare costs what it costs, which is no more than the money the government puts towards it. If something would cost more, the government decides if they pay for it or not. They also have the full weight of the government, and its purse, to keep the system going. If, in the future, they want to expand coverage more, they can also raise taxes, or charge a fee, or limit spending in other government areas, to get the extra funds needed for the new service.

      In contrast, a company that offers health insurance has to charge enough now to cover future costs. At any given time, they have to have enough cash to cover likely costs, but they also have to have enough of a cushion to cover unexpectedly higher costs. If they don't do that, any crisis may bankrupt them. So, now that they have no lifetime cap, they have to budget for much higher potential costs than they used to budget for. Also, Obamacare forces them to cover more procedures, with every plan they offer. So, they have to raise their monthly premium to cover this increased future liability as well.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    29. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.
      This is only your perception because you lived in a country that historically had a bad health care system.
      Insurance is certainly not a tax.

      You are an idiot. The only reason Obamacare was ruled Constitutional was because the administration argued it is a tax. If it isn't a tax, it is null and void.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    30. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the taxes that are collected on tobacco purchases that are specifically used for education are actually... insurance?

    31. Re:I'm confused by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      No, that's the whole idea behind Obamacare. The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.

      Uh huh. And for those "young healthy people" that get injured in an accident or get cancer, who pays for their health care if they don't have insurance? The rest of us. It's not about "personal choice," it's about not being an irresponsible freeloader. Also, if you're younger than 26 - i.e., actually young - then you can *now* stay on your parent's insurance.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    32. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you feel that insurance is a "personal choice" then shouldn't the flip side be true ... the doctors have a "personal choice" whether you should be treated or not based upon the fact you cannot pay for their services?

      I'm all for freedom of choice so long as everyone agrees that it also means you may be choosing to die from a completely treatable condition.

      For instance ... horrible car accident (not your fault) ejects you from the car. You're bleeding out on the side of the road. Ambulance gets you to the hospital but guess what, you opted not for health insurance. So sad. No treatment for you. Off to the morgue.

      Obviously that's an obnoxious simplification to a complicated issue.

      Personally, I'm glad to pay for insurance. Just as I'm glad to pay taxes. Because I like knowing I can be seen by my doctor just as much as I like traveling on reasonably maintained public roads.

    33. Re:I'm confused by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So you're saying that other countries have better outcomes at lower costs because those governments decide to not cover expensive treatments, which is functionally no different than having lifetime caps? How does this account for the better outcomes? Are you suggesting that treatments that are ruled out by lifetime caps don't significantly impact outcomes? Or are you saying that the profit generated by "health insurance" as compared against "health care" sufficiently explains this discrepancy?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    34. Re:I'm confused by Bartles · · Score: 1

      You must be one of those people that thinks the ACA is revenue neutral.

    35. Re:I'm confused by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Mitt's Dog.

      Binders full of women

      Tax returns

      It was about everything but the ACA

    36. Re:I'm confused by Bartles · · Score: 1

      I thought Obamacare gives us free healthcare. My rich cousin who lives in Manhattan told me so.

    37. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      If you feel that insurance is a "personal choice" then shouldn't the flip side be true ... the doctors have a "personal choice" whether you should be treated or not based upon the fact you cannot pay for their services?

      Yes, that's exactly what I think.

      I also think a black business owner can refuse to hire or serve white people. I also believe a person can swear and call people bad names without being sued. And I believe a devoutly religious person can fire someone who doesn't follow their faith, or an atheist can fire someone who believes in an invisible man in the sky. Basically, I cannot force you to take my money to pay for your goods or services, and you can't force me to do so either. I also cannot force you to give me your money for my goods or services, and you can't force me to give you my money.

      I know that sounds evil and whatnot nowadays, but that is what I consider basic human freedom. If you think otherwise, I have a bridge I'll sell you, and you don't have a choice in the matter.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    38. Re:I'm confused by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

      Obamacare was THE major issue of the 2012 election and he won. GET THE FUCK OVER IT. If the situation were reversed and democrats were demanding the abolishion of the second amendment, threatening a government shutdown if it wasn't done, would you be insisting that republicans "compromise"?

      You obviously don't understand how the system is supposed to work. Yes, Obama won in 2012. As did those elected to the House of Representatives in 2012. And don't forget that laws are supposed to originate in the House, not from the Presidents desk. Should a law get passed that the voters disagree with, they replace as many Representatives as possible in the two year cycle of elections. That is why it's only two years. To correct those items that the voters didn't want to happen. And that is what is going on here. If you want the President to call all the shots, then put forth an effort to eliminate the House/Senate and Grand Jury. Those are the three branches with equal power (supposedly at one time they did). As for the Senate elections, for some reason, the Senate's appointed duty changed a while back. They used to be appointed by each state's legislature to represent the state's elected body. But now, they are not responsible to the state's elected body, but a representative like those in the House except with 6 year terms.

      All I know is this, if you follow either party it doesn't really matter. Both are going to screw the populace.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    39. Re:I'm confused by Zalbik · · Score: 1

      The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.

      Yes, and police services are a tax that unfairly impact people in low-crime neighborhoods.
      Fire services are a tax that unfairly impact people in concrete houses.
      Parks are a tax on people who stay inside.
      The military is a tax on people with their own guns.
      Education a tax on people with no children
      Highways are a tax that unfairly impact people who stay at home alone with their gun in a concrete bunker, locked away from those evil left-wing criminals.

      Living in a society means sacrificing some personal gain for the common good. It's pretty sad that the tea-party crowd is so arrogant, selfish, and uncaring that they fail to see that helping their fellow man is actually a good thing.

    40. Re:I'm confused by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      No, that's the whole idea behind Obamacare. The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.

      This is the attitude that drives me NUTS. People act like not having health insurance is like not having a spare tire in their trunk. You all know good and damned well if something happens to you, you're going to fully expect to be able to call 911 and get treated. If you have some severe onset of disease or accident, you're not planning on crawling into a cubbyhole in the forest and dying because you can't afford coverage. What you WANT is the right to offset the costs of your healthcare risktaking onto the rest of the country.

      The point of Obamacare is we *all* agree to chip in for healthcare to bring down the costs for everyone.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    41. Re:I'm confused by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      Do you keep full insurance on a 20-year-old Buick? Especially insurance that covers every mechanical and electrical system in the car?

      If a 20 year old Buick were dying on you, would you take it to the closest mechanic you could find as soon as humanly possible and not ask the price of fixing it or even if there was a realistic chance of fixing it? No, but that's because a 20 year old Buick going kaput isn't the end of the world. A 40 year old body going kaput very much is the end of someone's world.

      No, that's the whole idea behind Obamacare. The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not. Now it's just a tax that unfairly impacts young healthy people.

      Young people get sick. Young people get injured. Young people do not have enough assets to pay for any kind of hospital bills. It can easily cost thousands of dollars just to get diagnosed with something, even if it ends up being a relatively minor thing. Do you know a lot of 20 somethings that can absorb that kind of hospital bill?

      Then again, I'd much prefer single payer, because I'm not fucking insane.

    42. Re:I'm confused by a+whoabot · · Score: 1

      I am in Canada and I can tell you that Health Canada does indeed decide not to cover expensive treatments. My father is a physician and director at a hospital in Ontario. Here's an example he has spoken to me about: Someone in critical condition needs to be transferred to the regional hospital for surgery, transferring by air ambulance (helicopter) is far more likely to save their life than going by road. If the person is old, a drunkard, etc. they are not likely to receive such treatment. If they are young, employed, have young children, they are likely to receive the air lift. Decisions like this are made every day. Medical professionals in Canada have a duty to keep costs down, as there are not infinite resources. Anyway, you can see why costs can be less but outcomes better given such actions: If the distribution of medical treatment more closely follows the distribution of wealth, then costs can be higher, as the wealthy would be willing/able to pay more, and there is no connection between one's having money and the aptness of one's treatment to be a marginal benefit to the average outcome/cost ratio. Indeed, wealthy Canadians often go to the US for medical treatment where their money can buy them something.

    43. Re:I'm confused by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      nonsense, you're talking about plans that are a good deal for people who don't need much healthcare. let me manage my own money

    44. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Hi there, NoImNotNineVolt. Although I'm sure we have very different view on this issue, I'm glad you are asking intelligent questions. Much better than the ones above and below you.

      As for the "better outcomes" in other countries, you have to be more specific. If you mean "longer life expectancy", there are several causes of it being lower in the US. The first that comes to mind is our murder rate, which ends many lives at a young age. One kid dying at age 15 cancels out a dozen living 5 years past our life expectancy. I would like to see what removing the murder victims does to the life expectancy figures.

      Tied into that, but also a concern on its own, is the obesity rate in the US. We are way too fat and lazy in this country. I'm part of that myself, but on the low end of the bulge. The number of people who have conditions tied to their obesity is horrible. But we can't exactly force them to eat right and go jogging.

      As to whether whether a nationalized health plan not covering some treatments is comparable to a lifetime cap on insurance payout, I honestly don't know what the comparison would be. But a factor you have to consider is that many people have the so-called Cadillac plans with such high caps, they never reach them. Possible some have no caps at all, but I don't know the details of high end plans. In the national systems that don't cover high-priced treatments, no one gets them because they don't exist. So unless they have money to pay for it themselves, or have a high price supplemental insurance plan, the people who need the treatment don't get it. Maybe it's all equal in the end, but it seems like either system limits the options of the non-wealthy. In which case, I would rather have the freedom to choose my own level of coverage, rather than the politicians and bureaucrats. Even if it means I take greater risk overall.

      With all that said, I think a much better plan would be to have the same system we had before, and simply have the people who are "uninsurable" get coverage through the federal government. This would keep it off the states' books, while covering the ones who need it. I'm sure there's issues that would need to be worked out, but it would have been easier and less disruptive than Obamacare.

      Anyhow, again, good questions. Thanks for your response.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    45. Re:I'm confused by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I don't care how you call it. It is certainly not a tax, otherwise every one would pay it according to his income and you had no need for that software anyway, you would simply go to the doctor and show your passport and that would be it.

      If your administration called it a tax it is their/your problem.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    46. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      It's not what I call it. It's what its implementers and defenders call it. And if it is not a tax, it is unconstitutional. So, please convince our Supreme Court that it isn't a tax.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    47. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, but you have me confused with an alternate-reality boogyman you dreamed up last night.

      Did I say I don't think the government has the right to have police or fire departments? Did I say highways and parks are unconstitutional? No, I never said any of that. I have in the past called Libertarians idiots for pushing just those type issues.

      As far as "sacrificing some personal gain for the common good", I thought that was the exact thing the liberals fought against for the last 40 years. They want their own personal freedom, at the expense of a well-ordered civil society where "blacks know their place". So, now that your side is in charge, you can force your opponents to live against their wishes, just as their predecessors did to yours. For the common good, of course. Just point me to the train cars; I won't resist.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    48. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Really? You know exactly what I think? How do you have this prescient vision? And how do I get it?

      For your information, yes, I would much rather have to crawl off into the forest and die, than be forced to buy something against my will. But I would much rather this current administration stop killing our business culture, so that everyone could find full employment again. Then I could have insurance, which is what you apparently want. But you support the plan that is actually forcing people off of their existing insurance plans, and raising the cost of new plans so that they can't afford them.

      Honestly, your post is just a pile of nonsense and talking point bullshit that someone else shoved into your mouth. And you are happy to smile and regurgitate it back at me, as if it came from your own brain.

      As far as "we *all* agree to chip in", how many people didn't have health insurance last year? About 50 million. How many people had coverage? About 250 million. So, that means we will add about 20% more people to the system, as far as paying in. However there are three points that don't work in your argument's favor. 1) A large number of those people are under the age of 25, so will most likely be on their parents' plan. They won't have their own plan, at the full cost; they'll be an addition to an existing plan. 2) The people who were too poor to afford insurance, are still too poor to afford insurance. So we will "chip in" to support them. Just like you are lamenting is happening now. 3) The other main group of uninsured is the people who have the dreaded pre-existing conditions. So their joining the system will cost a lot more than they are paying in under any plan they get.

      So, in review, the uninsured people in this country generally consist of some groups that won't add money to the system, and another that will take much more money out of the system.

      A better idea would be for the federal government to have simply setup a national system for the uninsureable, to get them coverage, and let the rest of us choose our own destiny. Either way, society is paying for as much coverage as you wish to ensure. My system though doesn't force people to buy a product from rich Wall Street bankers just for the privilege of living in the USA. You apparently relish the thought of giving money to Wall Street bankers.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    49. Re:I'm confused by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Uh huh. And for those "young healthy people" that get injured in an accident or get cancer, who pays for their health care if they don't have insurance? The rest of us. It's not about "personal choice," it's about not being an irresponsible freeloader.

      Except you've now ADDED a bunch of freeloaders to the system who can stay on low premium low cost plans and then jump on more expensive plans whenever they develop some condition that justifies it. There's literally no reason to be on an expensive plan with the pre-existing condition mandate.

    50. Re:I'm confused by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Then again, I'd much prefer single payer, because I'm not fucking insane.

      You know, whenever I ask people what's so great about single payer, they do one of two things:
      1) Ignorantly say "well that's what Europe has and life is great over there", knowing absolutely nothing about single payer
      --or--
      2) They say something like "well it'll let us use the negotiating power of the government to lower costs!"

      I of course immediately respond with: "why is negotiating involved at all? why don't things simply cost what they cost?" Then they stare at me blankly.

    51. Re:I'm confused by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Obamacare was THE major issue of the 2012 election and he won.

      It was also THE major issue of the 2010 elections when the Republicans swept into the House in overwhelming droves in the first place.

      If the situation were reversed and democrats were demanding the abolishion of the second amendment, threatening a government shutdown if it wasn't done, would you be insisting that republicans "compromise"?

      They did, and they did (though not on second amendment). In December, another budget standoff had us careening on the edge of a fiscal cliff with 99% of the budget in concord with Obama dropping an ultimatum that nothing gets passed without a tax hike on 250k+ incomes. Republicans, however, stayed at the negotiating table and finally caved with a last minute tax hike compromise at the 450k+ income line to prevent catastrophe. Notice the similarities? If you don't, it's because you're blinded by partisan beliefs that one side just had a sensible idea where the other side was just being unreasonable, because of your personal views on the two topics. Obama won't even BEGIN to talk with Republicans on this issue until they unconditionally surrender up front, and all the Republicans are looking for is to talk about/reform a highly partisan program they had no say in the creation of that isn't even favored by voters.

    52. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, everyone wants to not die in a gutter instead of getting healthcare (actually, most people want nationalized healthcare, but let's keep the right wing authoritarians from having heart attacks, and pretend reality is different).

    53. Re:I'm confused by mea_culpa · · Score: 1

      If it is not a tax then why do I have to file it with my taxes? Why is the IRS the one responsible for its enforcement?

    54. Re:I'm confused by mea_culpa · · Score: 1

      Because so much more young and healthy are getting maimed in car accidents than older unhealthy people getting diabetes and cancer.
      Insurance is all about managing risks. The risks involved determine the premiums.
      Or are you confusing insurance for health care?

    55. Re:I'm confused by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Uh huh. And for those "young healthy people" that get injured in an accident or get cancer, who pays for their health care if they don't have insurance? The rest of us. It's not about "personal choice," it's about not being an irresponsible freeloader.

      Except you've now ADDED a bunch of freeloaders to the system who can stay on low premium low cost plans and then jump on more expensive plans whenever they develop some condition that justifies it. There's literally no reason to be on an expensive plan with the pre-existing condition mandate.

      Probably some truth to that, but I imagine that one cannot switch plans unless during an open enrollment period or after a life-change event. Of course, low premium plans have high deductibles, high out-of-pocket expenses and less expansive coverage, where high premium plans have the reverse.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    56. Re:I'm confused by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Why should a health care system be unconstitutional?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    57. Re:I'm confused by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No idea, but I guess you file it with your taxes because spendings on health care give you a tax reduction. At least that is the case "in the rest of the world".

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    58. Re:I'm confused by jbo5112 · · Score: 1

      The US healthcare system is consistently ranked #1 in responsiveness to the needs and decisions of patients.

      We don't score as well on overall health, life expectancy and infant mortality. I'm not sure why on infant mortality, other than seeing a report of very high mortality rate for the first day in the US. We don't score very well on price. I know policies can help, but what do you expect for the best care, other than the highest price? We also don't score well on fairness of pricing because we tend to charge people their actual costs, instead of making the rich pay the bills for those who are unemployed, living in their parent's basement, not even looking for work and divide their time among eating Taco Bell, playing World of Warcraft, and drinking themselves sick.

      People often spout information like citing our healthcare as ranked #34, and we pay more than any other country, who all have socialized medical care. If you're just looking at medical care (not overall health), separately from pricing and payment models, then it's fair to say our healthcare is ranked #1, but we pay more than any other country and don't have socialized pricing. It's also fair to say our healthcare is ranked #34 because we pay more than any other country and don't have socialized pricing. The first statement is very misleading, and if you know the reason for the ranking, probably a lie (intentional deception, whether the statement is technically true or not).

      In my opinion, avoiding socialism (government paid healthcare, high minimum wage, possibly others) has helped push the US to have the most productive workers (most hours worked and most work per hour). Norway (oil) and Luxembourg (banking) are the only economies with a higher per capita GDP (PPP).

    59. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Because the ACA is not a health care system. It is a requirement for US citizens to buy a commercial product or be punished. The US federal government does not have that power in the Constitution. Individual states can decide to enact a similar individual mandate, such as Massachusetts did, or an employer mandate, such as Hawaii did. I have no issue with that, because states can do whatever their people agree to, as long as their own State Constitution does not forbid it. But the federal Constitution does not allow Congress to do this.

      Actually, I think way too many conservatives are talking a bunch of crap, because their main argument is whether the law is Constitutional or not. Well, what would they argue if the states passed an Amendment that specifically authorized Congress to enact the individual and business mandates? Would they still be against it, when it is then Constitutional? Or would they have to fall back to simply "I don't like socialized medicine" (which the ACA is not)?

      For myself, I am not against the concept of "socialized medicine". But I think Obamacare is a horrible attempt at it (as well as being unconstitutional), and there are numerous stories in the news that show why. I think it is a major factor in our slow economic recovery, and if it wasn't there, more people would be able to find or keep full time or near full time jobs. It is also the reason everyone's premiums are going up. Not from more people joining, but from the requirements for every plan to cover everyone, forever, all at the same cost within a plan.

      And I take back the 'idiot' jab. It was the response that came to mind when reading your initial post. I'm not going to lie and say I'm sorry for saying it, but it was not civil, and not what I should have said. Thanks for the conversation. :^)

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    60. Re:I'm confused by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, saying: "itmis uncomstitutional" three times in a row does not make it so.

      Which amendment does it break? I'm not an american, so I have no clue. Would be helpfull if you just said "this amendment defines X" and this part of the helathcare defines an Y and Y contradicts X or something.

      Regarding the rest of your post: the economy is bad world wide. That certainly is not the reason of the new american health care system.

      Otoh a better healthcare system will generate millions of jobs im the "health care business" ...

      Why people are unemployed I don't know, and I have no clue what the connection between the new healthcare and having a job or having no job might be.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    61. Re:I'm confused by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Our Constitution states what the Congress is allowed to do, what the Executive branch is allowed to do, and what the Supreme Court is allowed to do. It specifically states, in Amendments 9 and 10, that nothing else is in the realm of the federal government. Things it specifically mentions in the main body of the Constitution include military, post offices, printing money, and many others. Amendment 9 says there are more individual rights than what have been listed in Amendment 1 through 8, and they are also to be honored by the federal government. Amendment 10 says the federal government has no power other that the specific items listed in the Constitution. Nowhere does it say Congress is allowed to force American citizens to have to buy a product or go to jail.

      So, since the Constitution does not say Congress has the authority to force everyone into a health care system, or force everyone into a health insurance contract, or even force anyone to buy a commercial product, and the Constitution further says that whatever is not specifically set forth in the Constitution is outside of the powers and responsibilities of Congress, the ACA is not a constitutional law. It was not constitutional when it was passed, and is not constitutional now, the Supreme Court's decision not withstanding. The Supreme Court's decision actually was in violation of the Constitution, as it granted Congress powers that are not allowed in the Constitution. The Supreme Court does not have the power to do so.

      The same is true of the NSA spying that has been revealed in the last few months. It violates our Constitution, but is supported by all three branches of our federal government. The government could claim national defense in the first months after the 9/11 attacks, but that reason can't last forever. The fact that the programs are still going on, and increasing in scope, is the same issue of Congress and the Executive branch overstepping their bounds, with the complicity of the courts. The actions of the NSA, in regards to spying on US citizens within our own bordes, is as unconstitutional as the ACA is.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    62. Re:I'm confused by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      You're drastically overstating the validity of your counter-argument by claiming the GP doesn't "understand how the system is supposed to work".

      I'm glad you agree that Obama won in 2012, because the ACA was a core element of that election. The Democrats also held the Senate. In the House... Democrats also got the most votes, by a 1.6 million vote margin. Republicans got the house through gerrymandered districts, *not* through popular vote. Then SCOTUS upheld the ACA.

      So the Executive, before and after the election, supports the ACA. Half of the legislative supports the ACA (before and after election, and they needed 60% to pass it). The other half has a majority but not a plurality of popular votes. By every measure, voters have spoken, and voters did not elect Republicans who promised to repeal the ACA. Nobody is saying POTUS should call all the shots, but people are saying that the President, Senate, or Supreme Court needs to agree if the House is going to be successful at repealing laws. Division of powers swings both ways... the House can't just go around repealing anything it doesn't like all on its own.

      Now, can you show me where in the constitution it says that a gerrymandered majority in the House has the power to threaten to default on the nation's debt? If not, please tell your friends to get over the election, stop lying, and start doing their goddamned jobs.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    63. Re: I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ane it is obvious that you don't understand that the voters can change their mind on a given law or tax and place representatives in office to change the law. If your version of how the system should work was true then I couldn't go get a shot of booze to forget your shortsighted post.

    64. Re:I'm confused by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Probably some truth to that, but I imagine that one cannot switch plans unless during an open enrollment period or after a life-change event.

      Except open enrollment happens frequent enough not to matter: quarterly? yearly?

      Of course, low premium plans have high deductibles, high out-of-pocket expenses and less expansive coverage, where high premium plans have the reverse.

      Except no one will ever pay the high out of pocket costs because they'll immediately jump on the plan that dumps that cost onto the taxpayers. You see that's the difference between then and now. Before Obamacare, you took a risk with getting on a HDHP while healthy: you might may lower bills now, but if something happened to you, you'd be paying for it. The super paranoid people on the other hand would take the traditional plans with the large premiums but always be covered. Now people have no fear of paying higher out of pocket costs -- to them, it's the best of all worlds: pay low premiums, and then foist the higher expense onto taxpayers should misfortune strike them. We've literally removed personal accountability from the system. And that frustrates the hell out of people like me.

    65. Re: I'm confused by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Ane it is obvious that you don't understand that the voters can change their mind on a given law or tax and place representatives in office to change the law. If your version of how the system should work was true then I couldn't go get a shot of booze to forget your shortsighted post.

      If you think you presented a cohesive argument, you've probably already had enough booze.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  11. Healthcare.gov problems are real by linuxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Healthcare.gov problems are real. But asking for opinions from people who have a dog in the fight is probably less than ideal. When you ask the likes of Wall Street Journal (Rupert Murdoch's conservative rag) or healthcare technology company EXL (sour that they did not get the contract), you'll get answers that are entirely predictable.

    Why is the website a clusterF? Several reasons come to mind.

    1. It is a 1.0 product.
    2. It is a government project, what do you expect?
    3. The states who setup smaller (in comparison) exchanges had similar problems. My state of OR paid Oracle about $50,000,000 for a much simpler setup where you cannot buy anything, but can only view plans on offer. And even that did not work for first few days.
    4. The developers were stupid and did not anticipate the traffic they got. Even engineering oriented companies like Google often make that mistake. If you have ever tried registering for Google I/O you would know what I am talking about.
    5. Obama's coding skills are simply not up to snuff.

    Team Red would like you to think that the govt. has all of a sudden become very inefficient under Obama's presidency. And under their guy Bush, it was a model of transparency and efficiency.

    1. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Team Blue would like you to think a badly crafted law, a poorly coded website, and Obama's sad political skillz at negotiating will still triumph. Instead of delaying it to fix the problems they knew about, they decided to move forward and really turn people against it.

    2. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanks for this, but please don't try to education /-tarders - it won't work due to propagandized mental entrenchment by the Messiah and His Machine

    3. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

      Inside the liberal bubble (where I don't live, but I have relatives who do), there's another reason starting to be cited:
      6) The State of New York is reporting that they had about 4-5 times as many unique visitors as they had uninsured people, and that many of those visits come in waves of 100,000 or so all at once. The suspicion is that opponents of Obamacare have organized DDOS attacks on the exchanges.

      No idea if the premise is accurate, but it's certainly something that would be both technically possible and not (IMHO) below the die-hard opponents of the law.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    4. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Team Red would like you to think that the govt. has all of a sudden become very inefficient under Obama's presidency. And under their guy Bush, it was a model of transparency and efficiency.

      I don't care about Team Red or Team Blue, but saying "Obama is better than Bush" is like saying "Obama is better than a retarded monkey." While true, it doesn't inspire confidence.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      And Team Blue would like you to think a badly crafted law, a poorly coded website, and Obama's sad political skillz at negotiating will still triumph. Instead of delaying it to fix the problems they knew about, they decided to move forward and really turn people against it.

      Team Red keep decrying how badly crafted the ACA is, but I have yet to see any suggestions for improving it. Plenty of advice to postpone its implementation (indefinitely) or to offer exemptions to any and all, but those 'improvements' amount to repeal not revise. So this is my honest question: how do you fix ACA so that no one shows up at the Emergency Room without a means to pay for their care?

      Because that's the pre-ACA system: hospitals were (are) required by law to provide emergency care without consideration of compensation. ACA offers one structure to ensure that those costs are covered by the person who receives care. What's your alternative?

    6. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't it odd how, until 2009, it was considered every citizen's sacred duty to disobey the law and trash the government? If the government did something good, it was every citizen's duty to set it on fire, just on general principles. Then suddenly it changed overnight, and anyone opposing the government was a scary weirdo. People are sternly advised to follow the law in all circumstances, and lawbreakers are our worst enemies.

      I used to think the "we have always been at war with Eastasia, we have always been allied with Oceania" was the least believable, most contrived part of Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four. That is, until 2009 when I experienced the flip-flop in real life.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    7. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Ceriel+Nosforit · · Score: 1

      4. The developers were stupid and did not anticipate the traffic they got.

      I'm not directly affected by this, but I'm pissed off anyway. - I don't see how this ISN'T software for a medical device. - By that qualifier this is a failure of the managers who hired newbie web designers for a job that required experienced engineers.

      Considering the volume of patients with medical needs that should be processed, can we not already ascribe actual real, deaths to their failure? - Manslaughter, I believe is the legal term.

      I hope they read this. People who fail to realize the full scope of the consequence of their ineptitude are truly my and everyone else's mortal enemy. - They're the proverbial fools rushing in where angels fear to tread. - A manger is paid for the responsibility that their position entails, but they seem to think more money is always better and that a rubber stamp from a brand-name university magically endows competence.

      Perhaps it's the fault of the universities, which lack the courage to follow through on their educational contract, and fail under-performing students.

      ( p.s. If you're thinking 'they would have died anyway if we didn't build the site', you are either an egomaniac or a psychological moron. Just so you know. You're probably more used to being called 'dickhead' though. )

      --
      All rites reversed 2010
    8. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of those are valid excuses for something as important as this. 1.0 should have been privately tested, and not been the public release. Just because it's a government project doesn't mean crap is acceptable. The fact that states had the same problem does not absolve the federal government. Lastly, developers being stupid is not acceptable, especially since this is something that anyone looking back at any major website/game/app/etc release can tell see this is not a new mistake.

    9. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately the only president on the Republican side they care to compare to anymore is fictionalized Reagan, and it's a little hard to compare policy ideas and implementation to a dead guy who was in office 4 decades ago when the internet wasn't invented in any serious way.

    10. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to think the "we have always been at war with Eastasia, we have always been allied with Oceania" was the least believable, most contrived part of Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four. That is, until 2009 when I experienced the flip-flop in real life.

      All those anti-war signs and bumper stickers appearing during the GWB administration all of a sudden disappeared during the Obama administration, despite the country still being at war with Eastasia (Global War on Terror, et al.)

      Unconstitutional activities like NSA spying and other abuses under the Patriot Act were decried when GWB was President, but now that Obama is President those same unconstitutional activities are no longer seen as so horrible and despicable but actually a good cause for prosecuting the Global War on Terror.

      When GWB was President, the federal deficit was a big issue he was pilloried for, but under Obama deficits don't matter.

      This en masse flip-flopping is most comical. Can these people step back from the fray and see what's going on? It's like the Matrix has them and they're unable to see the conceive a different perspective.

    11. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      Yeah it's a good thing the actual plans aren't due to be purchaseable for another 3 months. It's almost like they'll fix the bugs by then and this is mostly a huge beat up for people who, given their way, would've ensured this website never existed at all.

      It's not constructive criticism when you're actually just opposed to the whole enterprise.

    12. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considered a sacred duty by who? In what circumstances?

      You're basically creating a premise out of nowhere, itself an example of a contrived notion.

      I would say that's odd, but it's all too predictable. Much like the sham of printing an "Obamacare" Card just to burn it. Now that's a manufactured political statement that attempts to piggyback on an existing act but is only a phony hollow shell. No such thing exists, and unlike the draft, you won't be asked to go fight in a foreign land but will instead be provided health insurance in America.

      That you're paid for one, but expected to pay for the other seems to be the issue though.

      Horrors. Paying for a benefit available to you. Such an un-Republican and anti-Conservative concept, isn't it?

      But here, let me give you a concept. Back during the Bush Presidency, it was considered uncouth, even bordering on treason to decry the President's actions.

      For example, John Ashcroft said: "To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."

      There are others:

      http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/gop-dissent-attacks.html

      Ouch. Exactly who reversed course here?

    13. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Sacred duty to disobey the law and trash the government"? On what planet? Here on Earth, anyone who criticized george w. bush and his harebrained Iraqi adventure was an America-hating terrorist-sympathizing commie Dhimmicrat socialist traitor.

      --
      Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
      Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    14. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      This is early sign-up for insurance to cover treatment from January, so you're going to have to really stretch it to "already ascribe actual, real, deaths to their failure".

    15. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by khallow · · Score: 1

      The problem I see with this alleged tactic is that it's about two orders of magnitude too small. If New York were to enroll more people than live in the state, then that would be amusing.

    16. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You should try listening to both sides. It wasn't so much a change in philosophy as a change in teams. Before 2009, it was the republicans and their mass of toadies who were labeling anyone who disagreed with the federal clusterfuck as "anti-american", "traitors", etc... Now it's just the other team and the other set of toadies.

      I do wonder about this concept of "the government did something good," though. Is that like one of those "Planetary Alignment" things that you read about, but never actually live long enough to witness?

    17. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by jandrese · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you talking about?

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    18. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying Obama is the smarter monkey?

      Racist pig.

    19. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. The states who setup smaller (in comparison) exchanges had similar problems. My state of OR paid Oracle about $50,000,000 for a much simpler setup where you cannot buy anything, but can only view plans on offer. And even that did not work for first few days.

      You keep posting this and you keep being wrong, I used the site multiple times on October 1 and it worked fine (experienced slowness during office hours, no slowness in the evening). Multiple local friends likewise used the site to check plan pricing on October 1.

      You couldn't yet apply directly (which we knew), you could via insurance agent, which the website let you search for and contact.

      So you have a strange definition of "did not work".

    20. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Bedtime for Bonzo,

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    21. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by organgtool · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What country did you live in before 2009? As one of the people who opposed the Bush administration, we were told by that administration that if we did not agree with them, we were no better than the terrorists ("If you're not with us, you're against us!"). This scared all of the reporters who had tough questions about the Iraq War to keep their mouths shut or only ask softball questions. I was told by supporters of the administration that "This is America! If you don't like it, then leave!". And your 1984 reference about changing stories in mid-stream could best be applied to the number of rationales for going to Iraq - by the end of the war, I had lost count. Look, I'm not going to defend Obama because I have not been impressed with him by any means, but don't act like being against the government is suddenly unfashionable. It is always going to be fashionable to be against the government among your peers when your party is not in power and it is always going to be unfashionable to be against the government among your peers when your party is not in power.

    22. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only difficult because some of Reagan's policies are to the left of Obama's, and that degree of doublethink hurts their brains.

    23. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it odd how, until 2009, it was considered every citizen's sacred duty to disobey the law and trash the government? If the government did something good, it was every citizen's duty to set it on fire, just on general principles. Then suddenly it changed overnight, and anyone opposing the government was a scary weirdo. People are sternly advised to follow the law in all circumstances, and lawbreakers are our worst enemies.

      I used to think the "we have always been at war with Eastasia, we have always been allied with Oceania" was the least believable, most contrived part of Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four. That is, until 2009 when I experienced the flip-flop in real life.

      When did anyone suggest tearing down the government in 2001-2008? If anything, people were scared to say that kind of thing back then, lest you end up with a black bag over your head in some CIA internment camp. Unless you meant by "the government did something good" you meant:

      -a war in Afghanistan that Bush insisted on putting on the credit card rather than paying for, like every previous war in US history,
      -the creation and empowerment of our genital-groping overlords the TSA,
      -the Patriot Act, and all its myriad methods of bypassing the Constitution (pity none of them included bypassing the 2nd amendment, or we might have gotten a few Republicans to support repeal)
      -a second war, this time without any justification other than boosting a failing President's poll numbers, also put on the credit card,
      -massive tax cuts for the wealthy, resulting in a spiraling deficit that is only now starting to be brought back under control.

    24. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Don't be an idiot and stop comparing. Evaluate each on his own merits.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    25. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Bartles · · Score: 1

      What country did you live in before 2009? As one of the people who opposed the Bush administration, we were told by that administration that if we did not agree with them, we were no better than the terrorists ("If you're not with us, you're against us!"). This scared all of the reporters who had tough questions about the Iraq War to keep their mouths shut or only ask softball questions.

      That's a nice way to look at it, but if you look at it in context, he was clearly talking about other nations supporting or rejecting terrorism. Not individual US citizens or journalists. The statement was made on Nov 6th, 2001, in a joint press conference with Jaques Chirac.

    26. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Choom Gang

    27. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by organgtool · · Score: 1

      That statement or its sentiments were also made during numerous speeches to the American people leading up to the Iraq War. And after the Patriot Act, it was clear that the government had more power than ever. What was unclear was how far they were willing to go to use that power to silence dissenters. That was a rational fear given that we already had "Free Speech Zones" prior to the Patriot Act that showed how much Bush cared for opinions differing from his own. While it turns out that his administration didn't use that power as much as I had feared, just the threat of that power was enough to force me to self-censor most of my political statements or to preempt any dissenting political views with qualifiers that made it clear that I was not inciting any threats. It was the first time in my life that I feared an over-reaching government and it has definitely stuck with me.

    28. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Bartles · · Score: 1

      The current administration is using that power as much as we feared. Not surprising, as your free speech zones exist almost solely on Liberal college campuses, and the democratic national convention.

    29. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Ah, but you were told that by the administration. And you knew it was wrong, and you reflexively opposed it. You didn't need to know what was said, it was enough to oppose what evil did.

      Contrast this to 2013, when the administration tells you to shut up, and you obey. That's the difference between the two. How many of you have took to the streets about Fast and Furious, or Benghazi, or Syria, or anything that opposes your man in power?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    30. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you should mention this...my teabaggy sister-in-law recently bragged about putting bogus information into the website to find out just how expensive Obamacare would be for her "if she were so unfortunate as to be forced to buy it" (she already has health insurance through her employer), and she was aghast that I hadn't already done the same (I also already have health insurance).

      As she's not the type of person who'd have come up with such an idea on her own, I'm now wondering if she was advised to do so by someone.

    31. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      If it were just the 4-5 times the number of unique visitors expected, then I'd say that it's probably just curious people trying to understand the mechanics for themselves. But if there's a 100,000 visitor spike for no good reason, yeah, that doesn't pass the sniff test.

    32. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by organgtool · · Score: 1

      Contrast this to 2013, when the administration tells you to shut up, and you obey

      I have never heard the current administration tell anyone to shut up or anything even close to that. Not only that, but I have heard a lot of other Democrats who have been very outspoken against the Fast and Furious program as well as other failures of the current administration, so I don't know who is mindlessly obeying these gag orders you're claiming exist.

      How many of you have took to the streets about Fast and Furious, or Benghazi, or Syria, or anything that opposes your man in power?

      I saw about as many Democrats in the streets over Fast and Furious, Benghazi, and Syria as I saw Republicans out in the streets over Free Speech Zones, the Patriot Act, and a costly and poorly justified war in Iraq.

    33. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Isn't it odd how, until 2009, it was considered every citizen's sacred duty to disobey the law and trash the government?

      It is odd, because I was paying attention then, and I do lean fairly heavily leftwards politically (but again, listen to conservatives who have sense too, because good ideas are good ideas no matter where they come from) and I honestly can't remember being told it was my sacred duty to disobey the law, trash the government, or set things on fire. I was told about how George W Bush adminstration had managed to violate about 9 of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights, but what the really radical folks were suggesting be done about it amounted to holding signs, chanting on the street, marching in organized protests, and voting for something else. Occupy Wall Street, which included many of the same people who were out protesting the Bush administration, was actually far more confrontational than what was going on during, for example, the run-up to the Iraq War.

      There were significant numbers of people talking along those lines in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Those folks have mostly retired or died, and the organizations they led (Weathermen, Black Panthers, Yippies, SDS, etc) are either non-existant or shells of their former selves. Most of the folks that are advocating outright defiance of the law these days are anarcho-capitalist libertarians, not anarcho-socialists.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    34. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So this is my honest question: how do you fix ACA so that no one shows up at the Emergency Room without a means to pay for their care?

      Obamacare or not, people will still go to the Emergency Room and get free treatment.

    35. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your tin-foil hat needs adjustment.

    36. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by imikem · · Score: 1

      Easy. Volunteer citizens armed with Second Amendment goodness shoot the freeloaders dead when they try to use the ER without insurance. Problem disappears quickly. /satire (no, the problem actually wouldn't disappear quickly)

      --
      Perscriptio in manibus tabellariorum est.
    37. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were obviously asleep for a LONG time. It hit the peak in 2001, when Bush enacted the PATRIOT act, but not a single soul rails against that piece of garbage. Now we have shitty legislation designed to line the pockets of insurance companies, and that's what it takes to get people pissed off. Nevermind your loss of freedoms, you now have to get healthcare.

      Also nevermind the fact that a UHC option was the most preferable according to public opinion until it got laughed out of reality by the bought and paid for politicians.

    38. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey man, nice job with the plus five Insightful. You must be so proud to have taken the line "If you're not with us, you're against us!", which was directed at governments in the middle east who might consider being less than helpfull and re-targeting it at every man, woman and child on the planet for maximum 'republicans are fascist' effect. It meant "Harbor al-queda and you are our enemy.. so don't." It's limited meaning was well understood at the time. But you know, bush was like a nazi so just revise history as you see fit to get your plus 5. Fuckin' try to be honest even if you disagree and the world will be better; there is no need to lie to illustrate either Bush or Obama's numerous stupid ideas.

    39. Re:Healthcare.gov problems are real by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Read the constitution, stupid! It's only treason to criticize a patriotic President during time of war, and only Republicans are True Patriots.

      Threatening to default, shutting down the government, holding the country/world hostage, and defunding our troops during a time of war? True Patriotism if the President is the Communist, Muslim, Kenyan anti-Christ.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  12. Join the crowd by Cornwallis · · Score: 3, Funny

    Vermont's site is a disaster. Based on Oracle you'll encounter pages that were set up using what looks like boilerplate language then never corrected. For example, I was prompted to create this one time password – poorly explained – and presented with this screen that tells the user to enter a mobile phone number then shows a field for an email address – there is no field for a phone number. Then, there is a line of text - "I agree to [ENTER COMPANY OR SERVICE NAME HERE] – that is obviously boilerplate that was never replaced or corrected." The pols and the press keep announcing it is a "processing bottleneck" - now blamed on "old computers"... Can you say "we're gonna waste even more money on this thing?"

    1. Re:Join the crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Based on Oracle you'll encounter pages that were set up using what looks like boilerplate language then never corrected.

      I've actually seen that a lot from Oracle contractors. Problem is if you try to call them out on it, you'll get labeled as "not a team player" and taken off the project, so you just have to turn a blind eye or find another job.

    2. Re:Join the crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've dealt with Oracle contractors in the past, hence our in-shop term for them: Oraclowns. Now that sounds mean and stereotypical, and anecdotal to boot. But seriously, out of dozens, we've found exactly one guy who knew what he was doing so how else should it be interpreted?

      Thus we avoid any contracts that involve Oracle contractors. And it goes without saying, any outsourcing that involves India. I don't mean that in any racist way, extremely low quality is just the way it is now with Genpac, Serco and the rest. That may change in the future, who knows.

    3. Re:Join the crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At last, I shrugged, "Gee, do you think pulling that passenger train through that looong tunnel with steam engines is really such a good idea?"

    4. Re:Join the crowd by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Sure, steam is harmless, isn't it?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  13. i am agree by Meerathakur1990 · · Score: 1

    i am agree with these lines.

  14. 800-F1U-CKYO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    hee hee

  15. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yeah, the communist (not Marxist socialist, but actually "to each according to his need") English NHS is awful.

    Oh wait, no, it's the best healthcare system I've ever experienced.

    Also the problem here is contracting out to the lowest bidder. The problem was introduction of the private sector into government work - the same problem there always is.

    Ofc you're a troll, but a nice launchpad.

  16. No content here, move along. by njrabit · · Score: 1

    This article lacks any actual, useful, technical content. Any website can be done better to handle a hypothetical million hits at once. They could've of written it as a webapp that stores it's state into the browser's local database, so a user can resume and resubmit their data later - like some DMV sites. Or supply an option to submit data via mailto: - as email has a proven robust track record of moving data under heavy loads. However, coulda/shoulda/woulda means little if web serving is inadequate to handle the millions of people interested in signing up and the #1 concern probably isn't whether they can handle the sheer volume of people but keeping people's data confidential.

  17. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Informative

    The waiting time can be a bit of an issue, and a lot of the hospitals are overloaded due to meddling by government officials who have no notion of what it's actually like at ground level, but even through that it still manages to do a very good job of keeping the population alive and healthy. We're beating the US on every health metric worth considering (Except, oddly, cancer survival rate), and at a substantially lower per-capita spending.

  18. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Aye, we're not the best on waiting times, and the "internal market" tempered centrally is a lot less efficient than pre-Thatcher, but - like Bevan said - there will be an NHS as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it.

    Something created out of compassion and solidarity is very hard (and I mean this sincerely) for a more capitalistic society to contemplate, let alone implement.

  19. who is responsible for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of course, we'll never see names being named, because finger-pointing is a favorite game at Cabinet meetings, and certainly the Executive would never take responsibility

    1. Re:who is responsible for this? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Whoever hired the site contractor is at fault. Never allow a moron executive to make any decisions on something that he has no clue about.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:who is responsible for this? by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      of course, we'll never see names being named, because finger-pointing is a favorite game at Cabinet meetings, and certainly the Executive would never take responsibility

      Why should a Secretary take responsibility, when CGI Group built the database, wrote the website, and designed the hardware? Responsibility for this failure seems to lie pretty firmly in the (ironically, Canadian) company contracted to implement it.

  20. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by njrabit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Indeed. Remember that Bush/Cheney failed experiment of outsourcing the Iraq War to private companies - companies that brought in untrained "experts" to interrogate prisoners, private security companies to police the streets like the Blackwater employees who killed 17 civilians in Nissor Square, Bahgdad thinking they were being fired upon, or the Halliburton contractor who improperly installed water pumps that killed over a dozen American soldiers while they were showering. Libertarians and anti-government conservatives that complain that government never works while living in a country in which quality of life is almost purely dependent on government programs - like freeways, municipal transportation, clean air, water systems, waste disposal, the internet, police departments, etc, etc, etc - should really just move to Afghanistan.

  21. Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by mynamestolen · · Score: 5, Insightful
    --
    work in progress
    1. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Can we at least try to be objective?

      This is about a piece in the WSJ, a.k.a. the higher-class Murdoch outlet, so no.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Even Obama likes the name Obamacare, so it's not really worth worrying about.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama has bigger things to worry about than what it's called.

    4. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even Obama likes the name Obamacare, so it's not really worth worrying about.

      Why wouldn't he like the name to stick if he expects it to be successful? I for one want it to be so that we can be like the rest of the industrialized world and am 50 % convinced that it will be successful and 100 % convinced that if it indeed is, the right will insist on calling it the ACA.

    5. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even Obama likes the name Obamacare, so it's not really worth worrying about.

      Sure he likes it; that's the name he got re-elected under.

      The problem for the rest of the country is that we have a minority of the minority (Tea Party Republicans) who are having a Tourette's Syndrome attack every time they hear the word "Obamacare", and the rest of the Republicans are too scared to contradict them.

    6. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In all fairness Obamacare does roll off the tongue easier than "insurance-company-handjob-care".

    7. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one want it to be so that we can be like the rest of the industrialized world ...

      And here lies the core problem with progressives/liberals that will lead to the downfall of the United States. The US isn't SUPPOSED to be like the rest of the world. The US is the greatest country on Earth because it ISN'T like the rest of the world. If you like the rest of the world and not the US, then leave. Don't make the US fall to the lowest common denominator in the global space.

    8. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't help but think that if Obamacare had never been uttered, the constituency would have been a little more accepting...

    9. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is the greatest country on Earth because it ISN'T like the rest of the world.

      Anybody with any intellect knows that there is no such thing as "greatest country on Earth" because it depends on what metric you use and what kind of person you are. But if we use metrics like average lifespan, literacy rate, life satisfaction, infant mortality rate we're far from the greatest. And if you're poor and too sick to work, you'll be much better taken care of in almost any European country.

      If you like the rest of the world and not the US, then leave.

      Isn't one of the great things in this country that we're a democracy and have free speech so I'm thus free to instead of leaving to try to improve my country? I mean, I know that our democracy is not the best functioning one but still...

      Frankly, I cannot tell if your post is for real or not since the best satire is indistinguishable from the most extreme views.

    10. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      Actually, they resisted using that term for a LONG time because it's been so effectively demagogued. Just calling the ACA "Obamacare" reduces favorability by +10%.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    11. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should really have been calling it Romneycare from the get-go.

    12. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Those polls were poorly done.....ask people if they think that it's ok that the ACA forces you to buy insurance, and you'll get similarly negative results.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:Obamacare Versus The Affordable Care Act by will_die · · Score: 1

      And part of that is because of the cute name, Butter Fish sells better than Wart Perch.
      Also people know more about obamacare than ACA.
      The people pushing the use of ACA do so to pull the blanket over the eyes of the people.

  22. Buttloads paid to low quality contractors..... by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    For a low grade website.

    And to fix it they will pay the same low grade contractor more money.

    And people wonder why our Government cant do anything right.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Buttloads paid to low quality contractors..... by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      And people wonder why our Government cant do anything right.

      Oregon gave Oracle 50mil for an insurance exchange website with the same poor results.

  23. Re:Vote CRUZ in 2014 and Vote AMERICAN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go ahead and vote for a Canadian next year, see if I care.

  24. Sabotage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this level of incompetence simply the usual, or is this a kind of sabotage. It would appear that a lot of Americans have a serious issue with universal health care, and, in their insanely deluded way think that universal medical provision will cause their country to be overtaken by Stalinists. Weird...

  25. Suddenly.... by PortHaven · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Republican's request to delay by one year looks like it would of been a prudent decision.

    1. Re:Suddenly.... by adiposity · · Score: 1

      It likely would have been just as bad a year from now. Now we have 1 more year to get it running properly!

      Sometimes the best way to fix a product is to release it. Sure, your credibility takes a hit, but you might get a working product faster.

    2. Re:Suddenly.... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Except not for the reasons that the Republicans wanted to delay it for a year. They wanted the delay so they could rally support to kill it completely. They're tried this about 42 times already and failed (plus a Supreme Court decision upholding it) but they have a good feeling about #43.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:Suddenly.... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      It seemed like a prudent decision anyway. A lot of the consumer protection bits put up in Obamacare we're being delayed. Meanwhile they were still going to require the consumers to get health insurance.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    4. Re:Suddenly.... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      a year from now they will have no trouble getting support for killing it, when the vodoo accounting and unwarranted assumptions are realized by more people.

    5. Re:Suddenly.... by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Yes, the house needed time to vote against it another 87 times in the hopes that one time the Senate would not be paying attention and accidentally pass it.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    6. Re:Suddenly.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I understand that kicking the can down the road is an easy thing to suggest. After all, it's much easier than actually trying to fix the problem.

      But sometimes, the light at the end of the tunnel really is the other train.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  26. CGI Group Canadian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The CGI Group is Canadian so maybe this is a first wave Canadian invasion. First destroy the computer networks then....

  27. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by LavouraArcaica · · Score: 1

    Yeah, the communist (not Marxist socialist, but actually "to each according to his need") English NHS is awful.

    Oh wait, no, it's the best healthcare system I've ever experienced.

    Also the problem here is contracting out to the lowest bidder. The problem was introduction of the private sector into government work - the same problem there always is.

    Ofc you're a troll, but a nice launchpad.

    This.
    I worked at brazilian public sector. Everytime a private contractor was put on the loop, the costs rise 2 - 3x and the quality goes down.
    (And I should point out that brazilian public sector is really inneffective)
    The solution is not easy, but it is simple: contract a GOOD management guy and a few engeneers directly. Put this guy in charge and create a accontability proccess.

  28. 92 separate files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it is a matter of files, no harm in putting all that js in less files. Images could be cut out if there are too many. These are simple fixes if this is true.

    1. Re:92 separate files by Gramie2 · · Score: 1

      The CMS I use merges CSS and Javascript when I check a box. Surely to God this website is at least as capable.

  29. What unsupported insanity... by PortHaven · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They are listening to your phone calls, reading your emails, and recording all your chats. They are monitoring your vehicle movements. How is that not totalitarianism?

    1. Re:What unsupported insanity... by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 2

      I don't know. Perhaps the part where you're posting, through a non-anonymous network, onto a public website, claiming this is happening without fear of reprisal?

      By comparison: Iranian blogger's death in custody stirs up debate Shots fired at huge Iran protest.

      Grow some perspective.

    2. Re:What unsupported insanity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well shit, I guess we should just sit around and what for it to get that bad before taking any action against it.

    3. Re:What unsupported insanity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I'm really slow but I think I've got it now! We can't complain until we're being executed for publicly announcing our opinions?
      Go fuck yourself.

    4. Re:What unsupported insanity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are listening to your phone calls, reading your emails, and recording all your chats. They are monitoring your vehicle movements. How is that not totalitarianism?

      See, that's almost a *supported* argument. As opposed to the GP post, which claimed that selective non-closing of golf courses was totalitarianism.

    5. Re:What unsupported insanity... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's right....if I have the power to do something, than I have the right to do it. Might = Right.

      I mean my private phone calls use a private company - no rights there.
      If I use a public road, that allows me to be monitored.

      Seeing as I pay taxes to the government for my house, it really truly is THEIR property. So they should be able to search it any time they bloody well please.

      Sorry sir, rights are intended to prevent a government doing wrongful actions regardless of if they have the power. If a woman walks stark naked down the street. It doesn't mean you have the right to have non-consensual sex.

      All security protections can and will be defeated. We are approaching the point where we will be able to read and monitor brains themselves. What then, will the government have a right to listen to my brain because I didn't secure my brain waves.

      Yes, its a slippery slope argument. But if you look at the history of government, it ALWAYS winds up on the bottom of the slope. So in this case, its not fallacy, it is a factually supported and documented pattern.

    6. Re:What unsupported insanity... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Oh, well, that is called Oligarchy.

      Where an elite caste is privileged over the masses.

  30. No, I'm one who has studied it fairly well... by PortHaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And I'll point out that while WWII started in 1939, but the precepts behind the rise of the Nazis started much earlier.

    Totalitarianism does not require mass murder. Especially if the populace is obedient to the authority.

    1. Re:No, I'm one who has studied it fairly well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'll point out that while WWII started in 1939, but the precepts behind the rise of the Nazis started much earlier.

      Totalitarianism does not require mass murder. Especially if the populace is obedient to the authority.

      Some, particuarly in China, would say that WWII started a few years earlier. And the Japanesse government in the 1930s and early 40s was not Nazi but were about on a par with them. Of course since they weren't killing as many 'white' folks, they get a lot less publicity.

    2. Re:No, I'm one who has studied it fairly well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'll point out that while WWII started in 1939, but the precepts behind the rise of the Nazis started much earlier.

      It's a shame you couldn't study a little grammar while you were at it.

    3. Re:No, I'm one who has studied it fairly well... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry that you're uneducated. First, you tell me why 200 years ago we wrote "I love you" as "I loue yov" and then I shall respect any complaint you have against grammer. Why were u's v's and v's u. Hence a a double-u "W" in fact looks like to V's.

      Much of our grammar are recent accruments to the English language. Many are in fact poorly enacted. I am quite fond of the Internet's destruction on present English grammar because it has jump started the evolution of English once more.

      And most grammar nazis would be hard pressed to meet their own standard of excellence on the use of commas, semi-colons, dashes, long dashes, etc.

      The point is that I conveyed a thought. My statement used while in after its conjunction form of contrast, akin to whereas. And yes, there is an extraneous but, I guess I put that there for all the nazi asses. Or more likely, I just wrote that while taking a short break from my daily tasks. And started with one thought and quickly changed the wording and forgot to remove an extraneous but.

      Granted, I could have re-read what I typed, in which case I'd likely have fixed it. I could of spent a few extra minutes to achieve a great work of grammar. But it was a simple reply on Slashdot. And I usually take for granted the intelligence of most slashdot readers to be able to understand the gist of the thought regardless of the occasional typo or grammar error. Perhaps because I assume that most computer programmers are smart, intelligent and busy people who understand that we are often just interjecting quickly and no big deal if there is a minor spelling mistake.

      But there, all the grammar asses now have an extraneous "but" to criticize.

      Frankly my dear, I have no respect for the intelligence of any man who cannot spell a multi-syllable word at least three different ways.

      And I'll respect English grammar when the English language respects phonetics.

      Seriously, we could start by calling it fonetics. Next thing I know you'll complain about the phont I used to type this reply.

  31. Ah... by PortHaven · · Score: 2

    But how many military/spy satellites did NASA launch into orbit. Then let's re-evaluated the definition of a military organization. NASA is clearly at least a hybrid entity. And I 3 NASA

    1. Re:Ah... by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1
      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    2. Re:Ah... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      NASA isn't a hybrid entity. It's a government entity. Made of lots of little bitty pieces from anybody who has some extra money. It will hopefully not come as a surprise to you that the US military has a lot of money. Massive non metric shit tons of money. And physics being what it is, the same complicated pointy things that launch warheads are also capable of launching satellites.

      And speaking of satellites, a Hubble is a backwards, slightly deprecated Keyhole sat in a funny orbit.

      So they fact that they work together, build things that look similar and even share the same (expensive, one off) facilities shouldn't really be a surprise. Would you want it any other way?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Ah... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      No, not really....

      And thank you for taking the time to write out a much longer response that covered much of what I wanted to say in my last reply but was to busy to type.

  32. Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Consider Healthcare.gov as an Engineering project. Under .gov procurement rules. . .

    The law: an ~1800-page CONOPS document.

    The 10K+ pages of accompanying regulations ? User requirements.

    So. . .CONOPS passes approval, User reqs start getting gathered. Someone writes an RFP and puts it out for bid. Given typical Fed procurement requirements, that's 9 months to a year before contract award. PPACA passed in March 2010, so we're probably at March 2011 now.

    Winner ramps up, develops a Performance Spec and Initial Design, and starts procurement of infrastructure required. Another 6 months. Sept, 2011 now.

    Infrastructure stand-up and development begins. Likely another 3 months. It's 2012 now. Standard development and monitoring/audits. Pilot of basic site for Insurance Exchange, though reviews and changes. 6 months min, 9 months likely, Sept 2012.

    In the next year, you need to finalize, get the integration between multiple .gov sites and agencies hashed out and tuned, and THEN go to useability, security, and scaling tests. In ANY .gov program, that's 2 years, minimum.

    Which means, the first REALISTIC date for Exchange eligibility would have been October 2014. But the lawyers and politicians didn't bother asking the ENGINEERS how long it would take, they never do.

    And **THAT**, is my best estimate of what went on and what is going wrong. . .

    1. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What "engineers"? This is a software project, there is no formal, physics-based methodology behind it. That's reserved for actual engineering disciplines like electrical, mechanical, etc.

      Calling people who develop software "software engineers" is exactly like referring to garbage men as "sanitation engineers".

    2. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      Software runs on hardware. Which you have to provision and configure. Security hardening and high-availability. Identity management, which is a BIG part in this. Integration between data sources. Comm lines and network infrastructure. Storage. Backup. Dev and Test environments. Software is only PART of the problem.

      Look around, you'll find stories of various agencies trying to contract for T-class lines. . . in mid-September, to be in-place and turned-up by 1 October.

    3. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by dwpro · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, good thing physics is a more pure disciple than math. There's a PE license for software development, in case you really weren't trolling.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    4. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by _xeno_ · · Score: 1

      Which means, the first REALISTIC date for Exchange eligibility would have been October 2014.

      Which is why I'll never understand why the Democrats didn't take the Republicans up on their offer to delay the thing by a year. Everyone had to know it wouldn't be ready. They should have been jumping at the chance to be allowed to wait a year.

      But, nope, instead they had to rush in head-first, and now we've got two disasters on our hands.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    5. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      Turns out I was optimistic. Apparently the contracts did not even go out for bid until late 2011, and testing began in August, 2013. . .

      Gottlieb and Astrue: ObamaCare's Technology Mess

      So, time for implementation was SEVERELY compressed, much less testing. .

    6. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Atzanteol · · Score: 2

      Yeah, everyone is ready to jump on the "they were incompetent" bandwagon but this feels like it was doomed by the project schedule. And the shops good enough to realize it probably wouldn't even bid so you get those who are either going to just "do their best and take your money" or "don't know any better."

      Some hiccups for a week or so after launch are probably the best they can hope for.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    7. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Specter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think they really missed the boat on this one: put up a pro-forma objection to the Republican delay plan, eventually give in to the Republicans (and thus getting what the ACA desperately needs: another year to work through the bugs), and then ride into the 2014 elections proudly trumpeting how they put the country before partisanship and pointing out that all of the ACA's benefits were delayed by the Republicans.

      It was stupid of the Republicans to pick this fight at this date but it was even stupider of the Democrats not to cash in on it.

    8. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've personally worked on web projects that have been accessed by most of America (~300M), it's not extremely hard. You need infrastructure first off, and a good backend system to handle the load distributed across regions and even locales. You also need smart caching (obviously wasn't even a consideration if you're sending 92 JS files across the network for every user...)

      I would like to say also, there is nothing wrong with using jQuery, particularly if you call it from a common CDN so that most users will have it cached already. And it is not strange at all to suffix served files with a cache identifier so it can be determined to be fresh or not by the browser. That actually HELPS with browser caching for future requests, but some obvious amateurs have chimed in about it, and they need to be educated on how the web works so they don't discredit my craft with their terrible ideas.

    9. Re:Someone forgot a LOT of things. by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      But the lawyers and politicians didn't bother asking the ENGINEERS how long it would take, they never do.

      More likely the CGI group, the canadian firm who won the contract to build the sites, promised a very short delivery time. But you're right, either way, the engineers weren't consulted.

  33. The first problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the use of JavaScript. For most applications it works fine - but to get it to work well with millions of hits per second you have to know what you're doing. I would have been more impressed if they'd gone full open source on the project and just done it all in LAMP.

    1. Re:The first problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IF they had used LAMP, they may have screwed that up too.

  34. Wait till they add analytics and start selling ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just to pay for the whole monstrosity.

    "Still looking for cancer? Get the best deals on melanoma here!"

  35. it was as if the system was attacking itself... by albacrankie · · Score: 2

    "It's out of control, Captain," said the chief engineer. "The parameters are going to blow if we don't do something soon."

    The Crank continued to sit quietly, surveying the panicked faces in front of him. The tears from a young secretary in the corner, the one who had only joined the group to bring hope to millions of elderly people, confirmed his view that this was no place for the sentimental. Slowly, peoples' eyes started to look his way. What were they hoping for? Some magic fix? Some weird incantation that he would type into a terminal and that would take everything back to that stable comfort of two hours ago?

    Eventually he got to his feet and looked around the walls of the room that were stacked high with electronic systems. "Any ideas?" asked the Captain.

    "Nothing that I think you will like," replied the Crank.

    To be continued..

  36. Re:Vote CRUZ in 2014 and Vote AMERICAN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shania Twain is Canadian. Garth is a Sooner. I can see how you can mix those two up.

    The next presidential election is in year 2016 CE. Assuming the country is still sound. CCCP? USA?

    Cruz is a dingbat. Republicans, through some freak of nature thing, all have the stupid gene. Don't believe that? It's true. And weird.

  37. Are they going to change their phone number, too? by bobdole2111 · · Score: 1

    On your phone 1-800-318-2596 spells 1-800-F1U-CKYO. https://www.healthcare.gov/contact-us/ I'm guessing no; that number will stick around for a while.

  38. Simplicity by gpmanrpi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back when I was still helping with designing and deploying websites, I would always tell clients that they should have a "Simple" backup version of the site. If the problem is load based, there is nothing wrong with having a simple HTML backup system, that generates a way for processing after the transaction is complete. While this might harken back to some of the websites of the late 90s early 2000s, when the CC processor was down, UPS/FedEx/DHL/USPS Shipping Calculation Web Service API or the fulfillment companies XML Order API, it allowed the client to have a sale in hand. It is easier to apologize later and beg forgiveness than to never have the sale. Customer's are amazingly forgiving when you tell them, "We were using our backup system so you weren't inconvenienced, and we have to verify your address, verify your CC info, or the product you ordered is out of stock for several weeks here is an alternative plus something for inconvenience." If they really are pulling from several sources, you trust the user, and when the system returns you run the transactions to verify during normally scheduled low volume times. Also, this is an insurance marketplace, wouldn't your real clients be the insurance companie? Did they not have some say in the testing of the system, or maybe some experience with online ordering systems? Since this is the government, why didn't they do IRS style forms with instruction booklet as a backup. Paper and Pencil backup availability allows them to treat orders like a catalogue order form. I realize all of these backup methods require manpower, but you only have one chance to gain a customer's trust.

    1. Re:Simplicity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Backup systems don't always work. It's often better to tell your customers up front that your having a problem. If you buy something that is listed as in stock and will arrive by that Thursday, and you buy it for a camping trip or whatever reason you need it by that weekend, then are told on Wednesday that the inventory system was down and they wont' have it in stock for 6 weeks, your kind of screwed and most likely will not buy from that vendor again.

    2. Re:Simplicity by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's a great idea. Make sure you test the backup system, though.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  39. Same stuff over and over by nightsky30 · · Score: 1

    It's always the same thing... Push bills, laws, projects, software, etc that are unfinished, untested, and generally not fit for public consumption. Did the public REALLY want to alpha/beta test this crap?

  40. Duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is what you get when you use a web browser as a user interface. I keep saying it, no one listens because it is supposedly cheaper and people are dog-fucking stupid.

  41. Give me a break! by roland_mai · · Score: 1

    Being a web dev myself, I do appreciate the importance of optimization but static files are definitely not the cause of such performance issues.

    Usually, it's either application load or database load.

    These "experts" are giving really "obvious" comments. The point of architecture problems is most likely the culprit, or simply, they've just haven't planned very well for the amount of data transfer that the system would have to handle.

    1. Re:Give me a break! by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I thought that was really odd too. /. folks love the JavaScript hate though and it's a great reason for the luddites on the site to come out and bemoan "web 2.0" and "back in my day we had forms."

      "And if we entered a number that had non-numeric characters the website would crash - and that's the way we liked it!"

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
  42. Website auth not the only overcharging contractor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "He was able to track the files being requested through a feature in the Firefox browser."

    what a 1337 haxx0r.

    When you hit Apply you're going to download a shit-tonne of new images and javascript logic because, lo and behold, you're in a new feature (the application form yay !)

    What's the average number of file requests per entire visit ?

    And how much did he/she charge the US government to crack open Firebug (or whatever it is these days) and click a link ?

     

  43. Compromise with Yourself by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Whenever I see two Anonymous Cowards arguing back and forth like this, I like to pretend that it's someone with disassociated identity disorder arguing with himself.

    It makes it more interesting that way.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  44. Re:Vote CRUZ in 2014 and Vote AMERICAN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it's not Republicans, it's idiots that somehow figure out how to get elected under the Republican ticket. Course, Democrats aren't much different, they just make different SNAFUs than Republicans and somehow get away with it.

  45. Benefit of client-side prevalidation by tepples · · Score: 1

    HTML forms reload the whole page if the user entered a letter into a box intended to take only numbers. JavaScript applies basic sanity checks to entered values before sending them to the server for authoritative validation, saving time and server load and bandwidth. But I agree that 50+ JavaScript files are a bit too heavy.

    1. Re:Benefit of client-side prevalidation by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Pragmatically, I've never written a complex server application that loads more than 20(and by that time, there was server-side auto-bundling going on), and most of those were part of the open-source platform, not the actual behavior of the application I wrote.

    2. Re:Benefit of client-side prevalidation by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      A user could make 55 page-reload-causing mistakes and we'd still be ahead...

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Benefit of client-side prevalidation by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I admit I'm not an expert, but couldn't Javascript+CSS do validation and draw red rectangles around input boxes as you type?

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Benefit of client-side prevalidation by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      HTML 5 validation doesn't reload the page.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
  46. A product of India by Andover+Chick · · Score: 1

    From the land where buildings regularly collapse, women get gang raped, and corruption is so wide spread the economy cannot possibly grow, the Obama administration outsourced the linchpin of its programme to India. This garbage software is the result. Of course this has nothing to do with the competency or intelligence of the average Indian program, many of who excel at academic programming skills. What it shows the development process for web development is a lot more than just a bunch of coders wacking away at the keyboard. It requires people with a well rounded skills (especially communication skills), process analysis, modeling, feedback, quality review, and teamwork. And to facilitate any of these it requires programmers be somewhat local. It also requires the programmers to be somewhat vested in the product. It is doubtful anyone who is on a three month contract programming assignment for $10/hour cares about he product.

  47. Must negotiation include gutting ACA? by tepples · · Score: 1

    That's because the only "negotiation" that the GOP seems to be willing to accept is gutting ACA.

    1. Re:Must negotiation include gutting ACA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what a majority of us voted them in to do, asshat. I had to hold my nose while voting, but there it is.

      The Republicans ran on a platform of stopping ACA, and America gave them the House. They had damn well better endure the cries of "terrorism" (if that ain't melodrama...) long enough to make something stick.

      Everyone wants reform; yes. ACA is not reform. And all my idiot lefty friends who think it's great have never read one paragraph of it... they just post inane misspelled slogans on Facebook. Or "like" someone else's inane misspelled slogans. That's what political discourse means for the public these days -- vapid sloganeering -- and you, sir or ma'am, fit right in.

    2. Re:Must negotiation include gutting ACA? by Bartles · · Score: 1

      But they are willing to fund everything else. The Senate is not. The Administration is not. Lets pass funding where there is common ground (everything - ACA), and then negotiate and seek compromise where there are differences.

    3. Re:Must negotiation include gutting ACA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The House is willing to vote the same way as the Senate - Boehner won't allow a vote.

    4. Re:Must negotiation include gutting ACA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ACA is already funded.

      http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43246.pdf
      http://www.mintz.com/newsletter/2013/Advisories/3421-0913-NAT-MLS/3421-0913-NAT-MLS.pdf

      The House isn't just trying to appropriate $0 for the ACA, they are trying to amend the ACA to remove the permanent funding set up for it. IMHO, that's not appropriate for a continuing resolution, or even a normal appropriations bill.

    5. Re:Must negotiation include gutting ACA? by Bartles · · Score: 1

      But, just like the ACA, it is entirely constitutional.

  48. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

    In talking to Americans, the thing you have to keep in mind is they have no concept of what "waiting times" means. They think of it like it is to them - you need heart surgery, but you don't have enough money, so instead you die.

    Whereas to anyone from any other developed country, waiting times are about "elective" procedures (some argument over that definition), you always have the option to pay privately for immediate treatment, and are "long" precisely because anyone with an emergency or life-threatening condition gets rushed to the front of the queue.

  49. Obama is finally ready to negotiate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obama is finally willing to negotiate with Republicans, and is making himself out to be a hero for deciding that individuals also need a 1 year delay in the mandate.

    Just wait for the media spin machines to turn this into a heroic gesture by the Obama administration to help the "little guy" by delaying it for a year. All those $95 fines that people didn't have to pay.

    All hail King Obama!

  50. REDMAP by tepples · · Score: 3

    Did a nationwide majority vote for a Republican representative, or is the Republican majority in the House purely the result of gerrymandered single-member districts? When you get a chance, search for Redistricting Majority Project, a publicized instance of recent GOP gerrymandering.

    1. Re:REDMAP by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      It was a vote that followed the lawful and legitimate election process. It's the rule-of-law and it applies when people try to act like Obama was the only one elected. It's a stupid argument.

    2. Re:REDMAP by codepunk · · Score: 1

      I think he means it was Bush's fault, wonder what the story is going to be after the mid-terms.

      --


      Got Code?
    3. Re:REDMAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is not a democracy; it is a republic. Get over it!

    4. Re:REDMAP by markwilt · · Score: 0

      When you get a chance, search for Redistricting Majority Project, a publicized instance of recent GOP gerrymandering.

      When YOU get a chance, search for "Gerrymandering". You'll find it's a process developed by...wait for it...Democrats. Terribly inconvenient when your opponents use the tools you developed for yourself....

    5. Re:REDMAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh give up. The irony is completely lost on them. Every single time they think they've figured out a way to beat the system they seem completely mystified and then butt hurt when it's turned back against them. Gerrymandering, independent counsels, obamacare related legislative hacks, etc.

      It's ok for their team to break the spirit of the law because they're the good guys and they have the best intentions. It's evil when we do it because we are by definition the bad guys with only hatred in our hearts.

    6. Re:REDMAP by Bartles · · Score: 1

      And then you should Google for the top 10 gerrymandered districts, and take a look at who sits in them.

    7. Re:REDMAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called federalism, which progs seem to have never ending problems wrapping their heads around. The House is elected by geographic district, never nationally. I expect you think of it as a quaint historical relic. As for gerrymander, it's as old as the republic, and aims both ways, depending upon political tides. It also isn't going anywhere.

  51. 92 files?! That's unheard of....right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm...well, TFA makes 211 requests so...hmm. Well, that's probably just the WSJ. 211 must be unheard of! Oh, well, CNN.com is 191. Must be anomalies. Someplace REALLY good like Amazon would only make...oh...200. Hmm...

  52. Mis-read by sqorbit · · Score: 1

    Anyone else read this quickly and thought it said "Administration Admits Obamacare Stinks".. completely missed the "website" part at first glance.

    --
    Sent from my TARDIS
  53. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's rich. The entire problem arose because the government taking on the job of the private sector to begin with.

    I will not contest the suggestion that it is doing so at the behest of the monopolists seeking to eliminate all competition and disoblige themselves from actually having to provide useful services, just merely the appearance or claim of such. Which makes the real problem: Government whoring itself out to the highest bidders, or, by some indications, those professing the most pull with $DEITY, whether it's horned goat gods, skulls and bones, owls, Krisha, Mohammed, or Jesus. At any rate, at some point, the question becomes "What government?"

    Time for an American Restoration. Yeah, a GPL compliant one.

  54. obamacare is just the result of EMTALA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    EMTALA presented an unfunded mandate, and obamacare "funds" it.

  55. cdn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why didn't they just use Google's CDN for jquery?

  56. I guess FUCK YOU wasn't available by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    I wonder if the phone companies have 800-382-5968 blacklisted.

    It can't be a simple coincidence that the obamacare phone number is that exact string, except with a blank after the first digit.

    Like the cop shows always say, there is no such thing as a coincidence.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  57. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by khallow · · Score: 1

    Something created out of compassion and solidarity is very hard (and I mean this sincerely) for a more capitalistic society to contemplate, let alone implement.

    I think rather it is hard for someone who doesn't live in a free society to understand compassion and solidarity, be they in a capitalist society or not. The key is that they are voluntary. You might get desirable results when you force people to do or pay for something, after all, the English health care system does work more or less, but it's neither compassion or solidarity.

  58. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by khallow · · Score: 1

    The problem was introduction of the private sector into government work

    The government has to monetize its power, and that's the main way they do it.

  59. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by jittles · · Score: 1

    We're beating the US on every health metric worth considering (Except, oddly, cancer survival rate), and at a substantially lower per-capita spending.

    The cancer survival rate is probably higher in the US because typically you can get diagnosed with cancer on Monday and, if necessary be having surgery to remove it on Tuesday. I know someone who was diagnosed with a very severe and aggressive type of brain cancer. He was quite literally in surgery the very next day. I don't know how long his wait would have been with the NHS, perhaps it would have been severe enough that the NHS would have had the same turn around. But these emergency procedures are quite lucrative for all parties involved, so the US's system specializes in such emergency care.

  60. Worried by SplawnDarts · · Score: 1

    As someone who cautiously supported the Affordable Care Act and would like to use it for my family's coverage, I have to admit I'm worried. We just routed the money for 1/6th of the economy through the same people who run your local DMV (or their federal equivalent, depending on what state) and I have to admit they're probably not up to the task.

    We'll have to see if they get it straightened out by the first of the year, but the history of major government IT projects is not comforting.

  61. Thing of the people by tepples · · Score: 1

    If you want to play word games, I'll play along for a while. Republic comes from the Latin for "thing of the people". If the representatives fail to reflect the makeup of the people, it isn't so "of the people" now, is it?

  62. A shame that always the lowest bidder wins the con by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    The website is troubled by coding problems and flaws in the architecture of the system

    Who had guessed that?

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  63. Failure to do their job of representing by tepples · · Score: 1

    It was a vote that followed the lawful and legitimate election process.

    If the representatives are failing to do their job of representing the views of the electorate, then "the lawful and legitimate election process" needs amending.

    1. Re:Failure to do their job of representing by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      Well, apparently this is important to you, but you seem to be in quite the minority. So, I suggest that you make a proposal and get working on that. It still has no bearing on who was elected in 2012.

    2. Re:Failure to do their job of representing by Specter · · Score: 1

      Elected officials are supposed to represent the views of the people who elected them, not some other group of people that believe things that you like better. Regardless if the districts were gerrymandered or not, the people who got elected were elected by the people in those districts. If those people are being fairly represented by the people they elected, then it's working as designed.

      If you want to proposed that we do away with the way districts are structured, then I'm in complete agreement with you in principle. But that's a battle for another thread.

  64. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gee, thanks for painting all of us with a broad brush and not actually basing your statement with any actual evidence. You must be from one of those "other developed countries" taht knows what's best for everyone else, and upon which services to best to spend their money for them, even if they have different priorities than you do.

    If you'd like to spout off garbage like your post above, feel free. If you'd like to convince someone who disagrees with you, try learning communication skills.

  65. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Look at those cancer survival statistics - the US improvement is months, not years and it's NOT 'Quality Adjusted'. It's just that we can string out people longer than you can. Wonderful.

    Well, it's important to be best at something.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  66. Guarantee for blame ... by kbahey · · Score: 1

    It is not a guarantee for success, but a guarantee that you can blame and sue a large entity if needed, after you say that you selected the best bidder ...

  67. The ocean called. They're out of shrimp. by fsagx · · Score: 1

    ...

  68. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

    Your definition of "free" is likely to be very much at odds with mine.

  69. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think rather it is hard for someone who doesn't live in a free society to understand compassion and solidarity

    History would disagree. It is precisely in the darkest hours that the beleaguered people find compassion and solidarity in each other and unite to tackle whatever problem they face, from tyrants to natural disasters.

    In free societies lacking in serious problems, people become complacent, apathetic, and decadent. From the Roman Colosseum to Americans Reality TV, humans by nature only work as much as they need, with the rest of the time spent on bread and circuses.

    You're lucky to not be a drag on society. You're exceptional if you push it forward. The 1%ers are a rare breed, and even most of them are not doing it out of compassion or solidarity. It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner.

  70. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From Do we really have the world’s best cancer care? :

    When [cancer] mortality rates are restricted only to patients under 65, the US loses its lead – we are right in the middle. Only when we compare mortality rates among patients over 65 do we excel among our peers. Why? Possibly because Medicare gives older Americans the health care access they lacked when younger.

    This age breakdown suggests American medicine possibly offers the world’s best cancer care, but only to patients with access to that care.

    Emphasis mine.

  71. I'm waiting for the massive security holes by Control-Z · · Score: 1

    I'm not too keen on punching my information in until we've had a couple rounds of security fixes.

  72. I have no idea what people are bitching about... by tlambert · · Score: 0

    I have no idea what people are bitching about... I just signed up for Obamacare through http://zombo.com/ .

    Remember: all things are possible, with http://zombo.com/ !

  73. Is it *that* bad, really? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    I checked it out a few days before the 1st of Oct and I had no problems navigating the site. Plus, there's 3 whole months for them to shake out the bugs anyway.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  74. the hagiography of choice by epine · · Score: 1

    The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not.

    Where the fuck did you get that? That's actually the founding idea and sole power source behind libertarianism: that all good things come from choice alone.

    Insurance is about entering into social compact where individual risks are borne by the group. The Canadian health care system is an insurance system, even though I've never personally received a choice in whether to participate. Insurance actually works best when it casts a wide net, despite the exceedingly awkward conversation about where benefits end, for the diseases where medical science offers us the most heroic, astrobuck interventions. Not facing these adult questions doesn't make a system better, it just makes the system easier to stomach, living life with your head in the sand.

    If you're not even conversant on Rawl's original position, it's going to be hard to draw you into meaningful debate. Rules that everyone would agree to before the first card is dealt will be portrayed as selectively punitive if introduced after people take a boo at their hole cards. Fly in the ointment: we all have hole cards already dealt.

    Why did Europeans not adopt American notions of freedom and government long before America embarked on the great experiment? Because they reached a gridlock of vested interests, each pursuing their own glorious choices.

    Now America has an advanced case of gridlock syndrome. The better path for all concerned is no longer an option. Democracy in the first place is all about facing the risk that your own choices will overruled by the choices of others, should they happen to outnumber you, or the electoral lines were cleverly gerrymandered, or the options presented/not presented have been engineered by the deepest pockets.

    No matter how you slice it, choice is a social construct. Do you really think a libertarian paradise is immune to the vested interests of shadowy elites?

    If I thought choice worked the way you think choice works, I'd be libertarian too. Choice is a superhero, but not a faultless superhero. Choice simply can not fix all problems. The fly in the ointment is biological interconnection.

    The form of choice that must be most zealously guarded is that surrounding self-actualization. I'm sitting here at a keyboard, connected to the internet, in a country which guarantees free speech in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and generally enforces those laws with laudable diligence. If I fail to self-actualize, I'm sure as hell not blaming it on the Canadian health care system.

    We're in a medical reality right now where large numbers of people take drugs such as Lipitor, where few benefit from doing so. This is fundamentally socialist. These drugs are explicitly designed to behave like this, by profit maximizing private interests. It's awfully darn hard to make a billion dollars a year selling a drug costing $500,000 for a course of treatment with 100% guarantee of permanent cure. Many of your prospective patients don't have $500,000 at hand, and even if they did, it means their children don't go to college.

    That reality will change over time. Topol on the Creative Destruction of Medicine is a great overview of this. The day will come to circle the wagons around the American health care delivery model yet again. But you fear waiting for that day, don't you, because you know how damn important it is to the outcome of the debate that hole cards have already been dealt. People will then cling to the the Obamacare system using exactly the same arguments you are using to prevent its inception. And I'll still be here upbraiding those idiots, too, so long as my fingers obey my command.

    Many of the Obamacare opponents are so prostate before the god of gridlock, that they conceive of Obamacare as terminal station. It's not a good terminal station. I agree. So let's kill gridlock and live like sensible humans.

    1. Re:the hagiography of choice by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      The idea behind insurance is that it is a personal choice to have it or not.

      Where the fuck did you get that?

      I get that from the fact that health insurance, life insurance, home owners insurance, renters insurance, are all voluntary expenses people take to mitigate their own personal loss if something bad happens. Insurance that is designed to protect others' loss, such as car insurance, malpractice insurance, workman's comp insurance, and so on are not considered a personal choice, and as such are required for certain activities. I actually have problems with them being required, but accept they are a reasonable burden. However, for each of these, there is a wide range of plans available with greatly different coverages and prices.

      The ACA has taken all the low to moderate priced plans away, and put such burdens on the rest that their cost is soaring. President Obama only got the ACA passed by promising it would lower costs. Whatever you want for your own coverage, great, have at it. But leave the rest of the country alone, and let them have affordable insurance again.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  75. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if they'll ever admit the law stinks?

  76. Drupal by TheRealDevTrash · · Score: 1

    They should have gone with Drupal.

    --
    I used to be /dev/trash but Slashdot no longer allows slashes for usernames.
  77. This majority is disputed by tepples · · Score: 1
    Anonymous Coward wrote:

    That's what a majority of us voted them in to do

    This majority is disputed. Besides, one needs not only a majority of the House but also a majority of the majority party just to get a bill introduced. So if 100% of the minority party and 49% of the majority party favor something, it doesn't get to the House floor.

    asshat

    Was this necessary?

  78. HTML5 fails to cover 40% of users by tepples · · Score: 1

    Internet Explorer 8 is the newest Internet Explorer that will ever be supported on Windows XP. Internet Explorer 9 is the newest Internet Explorer that will ever be supported on Windows Vista. Internet Explorer prior to 10 does not support form validation, nor does any version of Safari for iOS. In fact, as of right now, more than 40 percent of users are using web browsers that don't fully support HTML5 validation. Besides, to what extent does HTML5 validation support interrelationships between fields, such as "exactly one of these two fields must be filled in and the other must be blank", or "if element 1 has a value matching rule A, apply rule B to element 2; otherwise, apply rule C to element 2"?

  79. I'm disappointed by peccary · · Score: 1

    From the signup page:
    "All fields are required unless they're marked optional. Don't enter any letters with special characters, like accents, tildes, etc."

    Still stuck in the 1980s.

  80. Re:incompetance out of leftists is SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indeed. Remember that Bush/Cheney failed experiment of outsourcing the Iraq War to private companies - companies that brought in untrained "experts" to interrogate prisoners, private security companies to police the streets like the Blackwater employees who killed 17 civilians in Nissor Square, Bahgdad thinking they were being fired upon, or the Halliburton contractor who improperly installed water pumps that killed over a dozen American soldiers while they were showering.

    Libertarians and anti-government conservatives that complain that government never works while living in a country in which quality of life is almost purely dependent on government programs - like freeways, municipal transportation, clean air, water systems, waste disposal, the internet, police departments, etc, etc, etc - should really just move to Afghanistan.

    You have confused libertarians with fascists. Practically, there are few - maybe 6% - "anti-government conservatives". The rest are big government types and this goes triple for elected officials. Also, waste disposal is government mandated and run by a fascist corporation just like Blackwater in my township (part of Cook County, IL). So *I* with 1 bag a month and excellent seperation of recycleables (and aggregated until a sufficient bundle is accumulated) pay the same as a family of 8 with filthy habits. You know the type, every trash day it looks like half their household goods are being discarded.

    Dependency is something to be avoided. Not "avoided at all costs", but in an "all other things being equal" sort of way. I'd expect a tech type to promote redundancy, backups, alternatives, metered and rational pricing, not to mention choice and freedom. Your brand of "dependency" is what fascists promote. Driving 20 miles, I can take tollways for a 20 minute journey or I can save money and distance traveled on smaller roads but it will take 40 minutes. Choice matters.

    Also, the government isn't responsible for the internet. Even if you ascribe the idea to them - and why would you given things like the telegraph and smoke signals? - claiming ownership of an idea is among the highest orders of bullshit. Furthermore, by any standard, ownership of that idea would have expired decades ago. North America and the USA could disappear, the internet would not. A lot of non-tech types can't grok that.

  81. wait a minute... lowest bidder? by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    Isn't it a well-established mathematical fact that you're supposed to take the second lowest bidder?