Ubuntu, Kubuntu 13.10 Unleashed

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Ubuntu, Kubuntu 13.10 Unleashed

Posted by timothy on Thursday October 17, 2013 @02:45AM from the when-it-rains-it-pours dept.

llebeel writes "Canonical announced its free Ubuntu 13.10 Linux operating system (OS) release, on the same day as Microsoft's remedial Windows 8.1 service pack update. We speak to Canonical founder and Ubuntu creator Mark Shuttleworth who tells us what to expect." Adds reader jrepin: "Kubuntu Linux 13.10 has just been released and is available for download. It comes with KDE Software Compilation 4.11, a new application for discovering and installing software, a simpler way to manage your system users. and a new Network Manager applet gives a simpler UI for connecting to a range of network types. You can now setup Wifi networking from the installer making it easier to install updates and extra packages during the install." ZDNet has a fairly tepid review of the incremental rather than startling improvements of the new release, and notes "Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, due for release on 17 April next year, will now perhaps come as even more of a shock if its promised big changes are fully realised."

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Also: Xubuntu 3.10 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 02:52 · Score: 0

Xubuntu 3.10 released
1. Re:Also: Xubuntu 3.10 by binarylarry · 2013-10-17 03:07 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Xubuntu 3.10 now has support for virtual memory!
  Awesome! Maybe my new 56k modem will have a working driver!
  
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  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
2. Re:Also: Xubuntu 3.10 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 04:31 · Score: 0
  
  Hope it's not one of those WinModems...
3. Re:Also: Xubuntu 3.10 by ebh · 2013-10-17 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  Is 1MB RAM enough for the WinPrinter driver? Trying to rejuvenate my Packard-Bell.
4. Re:Also: Xubuntu 3.10 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  I have found that to convert Windows users to Linux users, setting them up with a dual boot Xubuntu system and encouraging them to use the Linux side as often as possible has been very effective. This includes my wife and my sister who are both very non-nerdy.
5. Re:Also: Xubuntu 3.10 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-18 18:48 · Score: 0
  
  This includes my wife and my sister who are both very non-nerdy.
  Technically, they are the same person...
Yay by wiredlogic · 2013-10-17 02:56 · Score: 0

Now maybe VMWare can get off their duff and provide a functional installer for 13.04

--
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
1. Re:Yay by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:37 · Score: 0
  
  What kind of problems are you experiencing?
2. Re:Yay by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  Don't expect vendors to support non-LTS versions of Ubuntu (see: List of Ubuntu releases).
  13.04 is only supported until Jan 2014, and 13.10 will only be supported until July 2014 (WTF only 9 months of support?), so there's no reason for vendors to bother supporting them.
  I wouldn't expect vendors to support anything other 10.04 LTS (server-only; still supported until April 2015), or 12.04 LTS (supported until April 2017).
ZDNet Article by imnes · 2013-10-17 02:56 · Score: 2

Just me or is this a circular link?
1. Re:ZDNet Article by telchine · 2013-10-17 03:06 · Score: 2
  
  It's not you... this is the link:
  http://www.zdnet.com/ubuntu-13-10-a-desktop-tour-slideshow-7000021826/
2. Re:ZDNet Article by gabereiser · 2013-10-17 03:19 · Score: 2
  
  And how is the linked ZDNet "review" a review? It's just a glorified slideshow...
3. Re:ZDNet Article by Stewie241 · 2013-10-17 04:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Yeah, but think of all the page views they get by simply taking a bunch of screen shots and writing two sentences for each screen shots. Gone are the days when you have to write 15 full paragraphs to get a five page article. Now all you have to do is take a few screen shots and make up inane sentences to go with them.
  What's more, is that they don't even manage to ruin the surprise of what the experience is actually like.
4. Re:ZDNet Article by Sipper · 2013-10-17 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  The ZDNet reivew looks like it's of Ubuntu (i.e. with the Unity/Gnome interface) and doesn't seem to include KUbuntu (with the KDE4 interface).
  Oh well.
5. Re:ZDNet Article by w1z7ard · 2013-10-18 15:38 · Score: 1
  
  http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4348123&cid=45152955
  
  --
  
  "Recursive bipartite matching"- try it!
6. Re:ZDNet Article by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-22 03:19 · Score: 0
  
  Because Kbuntu is the b@stard child ubuntu doesnt want to admit exists :D
Proper ZDNet Link by mike.rimov · 2013-10-17 02:58 · Score: 4, Informative

ZDNet link was bad. Proper one is Here
Also: Xubuntu 13.10 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 02:59 · Score: 0

That's 13.10 of course, sorry for double typo.
Holy Coincidence Batman by OzPeter · 2013-10-17 03:01 · Score: 0, Troll

Not only did Canonical update Ubuntu on the same day that Microsoft updated Windows 8, both Microsoft and Canonical waited until after the US government resolved its minor tiff and agreed to pay its bills. Sounds like both Canonical and Microsoft are benefitting from largesse hidden as a rider in some bill.

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1. Re:Holy Coincidence Batman by SJHillman · 2013-10-17 03:09 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  That's a good one, now how about a crazy theory about why the moon landing and the last public Beatles performance were in the same year?
2. Re:Holy Coincidence Batman by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:10 · Score: 0
  
  +VirtualBox
3. Re:Holy Coincidence Batman by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:26 · Score: 0
  
  No one's ever seen John Lennon and Neil Armstrong together.
  Coincidence? I think not!
4. Re:Holy Coincidence Batman by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 06:24 · Score: 0
  
  yeah and what about the fact that the beatles never performed on the moon?
  why not? we need answers
5. Re:Holy Coincidence Batman by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 21:46 · Score: 0
  
  Wow.
  How is it that you're so paranoid as to believe that the government is paying OS companies for their releases, but not paranoid enough to believe that the funding for such programs would be blocked by the shutdown?
  At least try to be consistent with your crazy.
"promised big changes" by scottbomb · 2013-10-17 03:02 · Score: 1

I shudder to think of what those might be. More change for change's own sake I suppose.
1. Re:"promised big changes" by TheGratefulNet · 2013-10-17 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  linux 'fragmentation' is a real problem.
  as soon as some distro gets their gui for mgmt working, they change it and start all over again ;(
  the state of guis for config and mgmt is piss-poor, given how long linux has been on the desktop. you still can't do that much via the supplied guis, and that's just really unacceptable.
  each distro wants to be 'special' and I think this works against us.
  android fragmentation is a major fuck-up, and many people see that and agree. but linux desktop fragmentation is also pretty bad and I wish there was a central config team that spanned the distro companies and concentrated on doing a mgmt interface ONCE AND FOR ALL. and no more changes just to have changes. that is an utter waste of time for everyone, support folks, users and distro owners.
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
2. Re:"promised big changes" by pmontra · 2013-10-17 04:19 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, well, I think everybody agrees that Gnome 2 (replace with your favorite DE) was the only true DE and everything else was and will be much worse. Oh, doesn't everybody agree on that and somebody even dares to code his own GUI still now? O_o
  Seriously, it's an unsolvable problem given the nature of open source and maybe it's not even a problem until somebody keeps coding a GUI that I can tweak into something I can accept to use. You see what's the problem? :-)
  With a Mac or a PC you must surrender to Apple and MS. It's adapt or quit. With Linux you can somewhat find a good compromise with a little work. As somebody told me years ago "Linux is for the guys that want to spend a week customizing their desktop" and I do whenever some dev team thinks to be smart (hi Gnome 3 devs, hi Canonical!), or is it the other way around? ;-)
3. Re:"promised big changes" by ebh · 2013-10-17 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Mint+Mate is just fine for me. Nice to know I can hack it if the need arises, though.
4. Re:"promised big changes" by 0123456 · 2013-10-17 05:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  linux 'fragmentation' is a real problem.
  as soon as some distro gets their gui for mgmt working, they change it and start all over again ;(
  Windows fragmentation is a real problem. As soon as we get used to the latest version of their GUI, they change it and start all over again.
5. Re:"promised big changes" by x_t0ken_407 · 2013-10-17 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  Lol, funny how that works, isn't it?
  
  I don't see what's the big deal about having a plethora of possibilities. I personally have run Arch+KDE4 for the past few years and have loved it. Why? Because it works for ME, and I can customize, adjust, etc. things just the way I want them, which is very likely unique to my needs and probably wouldn't be great for someone else to use. But that's the beauty of running Linux on the desktop, you can configure the 'appliance' for your specific need rather than be confined to what someone else thinks is the best way to run a GUI.
  
  I don't find fragmentation much of an issue -- but then, I'm not exactly a zealot, I love to tinker (and thus can usually get anything to work regardless of whether or not their is a special "package" built for my distro of choice), and believe people should use what they think fits them best -- even if that's Windows or OSX.
6. Re:"promised big changes" by bob_super · 2013-10-17 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  Totally untrue. Look at the unity 8 screen cap here:
  http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/unity8screen.png
  This makes it clear that it's not changes for changes' sake, it blatant "we want to look like apple" changes.
  Seriously, am I the only one who would think it's ios7 if it wasn't for the top bar and background pattern?
7. Re:"promised big changes" by Teun · 2013-10-17 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  What you call fragmentation is one of Linux strengths, just looking at MS makes you realise fresh DNA can be the lifesaver. Let's (vainly) hope that was the reason Windows has over the last few years change so much...
  Anyhow, just about the last remaining fully functional Linux desktop is KDE and it goes from strength to strength.
  Regrettably a bunch of nitwits keeps blaming KDE on the less than perfect transition many popular distro's had between KDE version 3.5 and the present 4.
  Or even worse, they are still moaning about nearly prehistoric problems with the licensing of QT.
  I have been running Kubuntu 13.10 from it's Alpha stages and as the versions before it is an absolutely great experience.
  What is this undercurrent in the Linux world that keeps ignoring the most functional and arguably most complete desktop?
  
  --
  "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
8. Re:"promised big changes" by Sipper · 2013-10-17 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  ...
  
  I personally have run Arch+KDE4 for the past few years and have loved it. Why? Because it works for ME, and I can customize, adjust, etc. things just the way I want them, which is very likely unique to my needs and probably wouldn't be great for someone else to use. But that's the beauty of running Linux on the desktop, you can configure the 'appliance' for your specific need rather than be confined to what someone else thinks is the best way to run a GUI.
  I'm mainly a Debian user, I'm also running Arch (in a VM, for Desktop use, with LUKS/cryptfs) and I'm very pleased with what I find with it so far. However one thing I do notice is that for Daemons, Arch upgrades seem to create ".pacnew" configuration files that sit alongside the original configuration files and outputting a warning, somewhat similar to how RPMs upgrade with ".rpmnew" files. I don't particularly like that -- I much prefer the prompts for administrator input that the APT/dpkg system brings up when .deb packages are upgraded that have user-modified configuration files. It's way too easy to miss the text warning that flies by on the screen saying there's a ".pacnew" file somewhere during a "pacman -Syu" upgrade.
9. Re:"promised big changes" by bregmata · 2013-10-17 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  "I wish there was a central config team that spanned the distro companies and concentrated on doing a mgmt interface ONCE AND FOR ALL."
  Because after all, the free market works best when it is centrally planned and controlled.
10. Re:"promised big changes" by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 14:18 · Score: 0
  
  The difference is that Microsoft will support their OS for nine or ten years after you've made the initial purchase.
Ubuntu good for linux? by EmperorOfCanada · 2013-10-17 03:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

I think in the early days Ubuntu was very good for linux. It showed that you could have a linux install that was fairly user friendly. Then it got better and better. But then suddenly it seemed to become Mark Shuttleworth's Ubuntu. Now it seemed to be a Red Hat envying I want to become a tech billionaire Ubuntu. Next it was an iPhone envying I want to be Steve Jobs Ubuntu. The key symptom of this being that it was both trying to appease the Linux crowd all the while annoying them to death all the while making sure their PR department was working overtime.

Then along came the Linux Mints, they saw what Ubuntu had been and focused on that. As someone who is asked by many people "What kind of computer should I get?" I will only be advising Linux mint for those people where Linux is a good fit; that is those people who surf the web, send gmails, watch YouTube, and type the occasional document.

The worst part of this for Ubuntu is that with all the hype hype hype they could make Ubuntu pretty awesome and I still wouldn't believe it and ever go back.
1. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by binarylarry · 2013-10-17 03:09 · Score: 1
  
  And nothing was lost.
  
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  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
2. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by SJHillman · 2013-10-17 03:13 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Ubuntu was my first real exposure to Linux, mostly thanks to being able to boot to a live CD from a high school computer to get around the Internet filtering. Once I actually started doing more than web browsing, games and word processing, I quickly moved on to Mint.
  I still use Ubuntu Server once in a while if I need to set up a basic, no frills server for some limited task. It's well documented, so it's pretty easy to get something up and running quickly although I'd likely never use it in a business production environment.
3. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Maskull · 2013-10-17 03:29 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  These days, I prefer to think of Ubuntu as being akin to Mac OS X or Android: it's an operating system which is built on a Unix core, but it doesn't want to be a "Unix OS". So you shouldn't expect it to act like a normal Linux distribution, because it's intentionally trying to hide all the things you expect to be there. Personally, that's not what I want.
4. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:43 · Score: 0
  
  What is it hiding, then?
5. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by umafuckit · 2013-10-17 03:53 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I think in the early days Ubuntu was very good for linux. It showed that you could have a linux install that was fairly user friendly.
  
  Other distros, like SuSE, had achieved this before Ubuntu was released.
  
  --
  soylentnews.org
6. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by BitZtream · 2013-10-17 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  Says the techie who has no clue how incredibly out of touch with reality he is
  
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  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
7. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by AntiBasic · 2013-10-17 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  Other distros, like SuSE, had achieved this before Ubuntu was released.
  ... S.u.S.E. had achieved this before Ubuntu was released.
  FTFY
8. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by umafuckit · 2013-10-17 04:20 · Score: 1
  
  Other distros, like SuSE, had achieved this before Ubuntu was released.
  ... S.u.S.E. had achieved this before Ubuntu was released.
  FTFY
  Actually, it's been called "SuSE" since 1998 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux_distributions and Ubuntu was released in 2004.
  
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  soylentnews.org
9. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by umafuckit · 2013-10-17 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  Says the techie who has no clue how incredibly out of touch with reality he is
  Not at all. I hardly ever recommend Linux to non-techies because I've seen the issues it often causes. But I think it still stands that in 2004 SuSE was roughly equally as easy to install as Ubuntu. Someone who could have installed Ubuntu back then could have installed SuSE. Here's the Ubuntu 4 install: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEmm8-PgRHM Here's the SuSE 9 install guide: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.suse.com%2Fdocumentation%2Fsuse%2Fpdfdoc%2FSuSE-Linux-Userguide-9.0.0.0b.pdf&ei=EBFgUqOgIs_I4AOsmoCIDg&usg=AFQjCNHsSqsGhjaVKbO9Fy6_uoWO0-VeQg&sig2=Y2s_E1MNJQVki19DH-rtnQ&bvm=bv.54176721,d.dmg&cad=rja If you look at the "quick install" section for SuSE you'll see that it's about as complicated as the Ubuntu install, plus it's not ncurses and has a nice GUI.
  
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10. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by div_2n · 2013-10-17 04:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's not rocket science. Rightly or wrongly Canonical has decided that the future of general computing is in the mobile space and they are working on getting Ubuntu there and bridging the gap between the mobile computing experience and the desktop computing experience.
  In simplest of terms, they're trying to make a distro that can be both a phone and a desktop all in the same device. Again -- rightly or wrongly -- they have decided that they needed to move certain things in house to best accomplish that goal (Mir) and needed a specific interface they were in control of to scale between display form factors (Unity).
  If you are a person that thinks this direction is wrong and will hurt Linux in the long run, then you belong in the "bad for Linux" category. I'm a person that thinks this is absolutely the best way for Linux to finally have its "year of the desktop" similar to how Apple made their comeback but with a twist -- by providing a compelling mobile experience with a device that just so happens to be able to double as someone's desktop when they want a bigger screen.
  Pay attention to plunging desktop sales numbers. As people find ways to make mobile devices and tablets their only computing devices, this strategy will start to look smarter and smarter. Whatever else you think of Canonical (and by extension Ubuntu), this will either make them or break them.
11. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Kjella · 2013-10-17 04:59 · Score: 2
  
  Well, Red Hat found a profitable market. Apple found a profitable market. Google found a profitable market. Has Canonical? They're a private company so we don't really know but as late as a call this year announcing Ubuntu for Tablets they said they were not. Nor can I spot any big and obvious cash flows to indicate they would be, they're a contender in various areas but no big cash cows. It's the same as when Red Hat shut down Red Hat Linux (not Red Hat *Enterprise* Linux) in favor of the Fedora project, sure RHL was great for the community but Red Hat didn't see how they'd make any money on it. About ten years down the road and Ubuntu is exactly in the same spot, they have the same market and it's still not making any money. I think Canonical is suffering the investor's itch, they don't want to wait another decade to see returns.
  
  --
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12. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Dracos · 2013-10-17 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  it's intentionally trying to hide all the things you expect to be there
  This is what Windows has been doing for decades. Dumbing down the UI (GUI or otherwise) doesn't make the system "better", it just makes the quality of users worse.
13. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:11 · Score: 0
  
  I've been recommending Elementary to people. There aren't many distros with their own human interface guidelines. I'm quite impressed by it.
14. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:15 · Score: 0
  
  Shut up, fanboy. I bet you are too xenophobic and jingoistic to have ever even taken a look at opensuse. It has been totally outclassing ubuntu in both usability and reliability for years.
15. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by JohnnyMindcrime · 2013-10-17 05:19 · Score: 2
  
  Not at all. I hardly ever recommend Linux to non-techies because I've seen the issues it often causes.
  I have absolutely no problem with intelligent discussion with anyone on the pros and cons of Linux, but why do so many of the anti-Linux people make these generalised, sweeping statements about Linux without putting any meat into their points?
  Precisely what issues have you seen Linux cause?
  I've given a number of friends and family the opportunity to try Linux out, mainly because they themselves tell me they don't want to end up having to use Windows 8. All of them still have Windows to use, I've either done them a dual boot on their hard disk, or made them up a bootable CD or USB stick to use when they feel like it.
  I get questions asking me how to do certain things or find certain things in Linux, in which case I tell them the answer or give them a bit of help to get something to work right - but none of it's an "issue" because I help them fix it.
  It's just strikes me as very selfish to say "I can't recommend it to you because I haven't got the time to help you out when there's a problem" and, to be honest, you probably are best off staying away from Linux completely if that is your attitude to helping others with it.
  
  --
  Windows 10 is great - I used it to download Linux.
16. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by MBGMorden · 2013-10-17 05:35 · Score: 1
  
  I agree. I've been an off-and-on user of Linux since 1998 when I was in high school. I downloaded and dual-booted an old version of Mandrake back then, and it was a neat toy.
  Then when I got into college I got a 2nd system just for Linux (and started using Slackware, then later Gentoo) and used a KVM, but I mostly just did my CompSci homework on my Linux system. I still didn't like actually doing my day to day browsing and general computer usage in Linux.
  That continued after I got out of school until eventually Ubuntu 9.04 when Ubuntu finally managed to get things polished enough that I felt comfortable enough to spend the vast majority of my time in Linux. All was well for about 2 years. Then Unity happened and Ubuntu went crazy.
  Thankfully I've managed to find alternatives - I'm actually using Linux Mint with XFCE as my desktop, but Ubuntu just seemed to build themselves up into such a force just to run their rep straight into the ground.
  
  --
  "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
17. Re: Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:37 · Score: 0
  
  Ubuntu is better for GNU/Linux than Android or Chrome OS. I trust a lot more Canonical leading the Linux world than Google.
18. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by MBGMorden · 2013-10-17 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  Precisely what issues have you seen Linux cause?
  I can attest that for the most part it works just fine. My completely computer illiterate dad uses it on a machine at home - he didn't know how to use Windows when he joined a fantasy football league that required use of the computer, so I started him on Linux and he's fine there. On the odd chance he has a question I ssh into his machine and tunnel into VNC over that to look at anything that needs to be done.
  My sister also uses it just fine. Her laptop died so I've lent her mine since I mostly use my desktop. Its got Linux Mint on there and once I gave her a login and password she figured everything out without having to really ask anything. Her previous computer was a Mac so she was sort of used to using a computer that wasn't the assumed "default", but she's far from a techie and has had no issues.
  Granted, I did the setup work on both those machines myself - I don't think they could have done the install, but many people can't install Windows either. As long as the system is up and running already though I don't think its too complicated for most people to use.
  
  --
  "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
19. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by MBGMorden · 2013-10-17 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  I think in the process though Ubuntu has killed what draws a lot of people to it.
  I'm no OSS hippie. I'm cool with binary graphics drivers and even full programs where necessary. However, one thing that was always great about Linux was that the direction generally felt like it was following what the community wanted. We won't change things simply to release a new version we can charge for. We won't do stupid things to make shareholders happy. Its never been simply that it was "free" (because pirated Windows has always been "free" too, and I'm far less caring about the $100 cost of an OS these days than I once was) - it's been that I truly liked the way things were handled.
  Ubuntu has now destroyed that feeling. It might still be free of charge, but it now feels like a software project from a big commercial company that is going to do what it wants regardless of how the userbase feels and if they don't like it they can stick it. I just don't want to use that type of computer.
  Thankfully there are other distros that have stepped in to fill their shoes, as Microsoft has gone just as crazy and Apple though they make a great OS is tied to their own hardware.
  
  --
  "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
20. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by umafuckit · 2013-10-17 05:50 · Score: 1
  
  Not at all. I hardly ever recommend Linux to non-techies because I've seen the issues it often causes.
  I have absolutely no problem with intelligent discussion with anyone on the pros and cons of Linux, but why do so many of the anti-Linux people make these generalised, sweeping statements about Linux without putting any meat into their points?
  Calm down, I'm on your side, I was just responding to the previous guy who seemed to be claiming that SuSE install was hard in 2004. The point of my post was that it wasn't hard (or was no harder than Ubuntu was back then). I'm not anti-Linux, I've been using it for over a decade. What I was getting at with the comment you picked up is that I don't rabidly promote it or expect others to like it. I have got others to use Linux in the past but for various reasons (e.g. they just preferred Windows and couldn't bothered to change or the software they *had* to use was Windows only) it didn't work in the long term. I have provided support, but some people just don't want to switch. At work (I'm a researcher), where there are often good reasons to switch from Win to Linux, people usually don't want to because they don't want to spend the time to learn something new. I'm happy to support it but people aren't interested (even when their Win machine starts to run slowly, they'd prefer to just buy a new laptop).
  
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21. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:52 · Score: 0
  
  Ummm.... anti-Linux people? If you had bothered to look at umafuckit's posting history you would have found this. He's hardly "anti-Linux". Looks like, as usual, you had a knee-jerk reaction to what you perceived as an anti-Linux post. Grow up, zealot.
22. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Ol+Olsoc · 2013-10-17 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  I have absolutely no problem with intelligent discussion with anyone on the pros and cons of Linux, but why do so many of the anti-Linux people make these generalised, sweeping statements about Linux without putting any meat into their points?
  Precisely what issues have you seen Linux cause?
  Once upon a time, you had to go out and search down drivers.
  To these people, that means that you will always have to do that.
  Once upon a time, installing a program would take you back to the mid 1980's.
  To these people installing programs was then, is now, and always shall be difficult
  A few weeks ago, I installed Linux Mint over my Ubuntu distro. It was so ridiculously easy, I was surprised. And just like the Ubuntu distros of the last several years, all the drivers I needed were installed, and every part of the computer worked just as it should. It's Coke versus Pepsi, Ford Versus Chevy, The President's birth certificate, peter waving, and all the other silly season stuff.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
23. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  Hell, they launched an Indiegogo campaign to build a phone. That just happened to be about the same amount as what they said their yearly operating budget comes to (~30M give or take). If that doesn't convince you that they aren't profitable, I don't know that anything besides a locked door will do it.
24. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:58 · Score: 0
  
  Argh, please don't... Ubuntu is not built on a Unix core and the only one who ever "wanted to be a Unix OS" is OSX.
  On the other hand, you should expect Ubuntu precisely to act like a normal Linux distribution: everything is adjustable through config files, you can mix and match components at will (I currently run gnome-panel & Compiz on Ubuntu 13.10, no Unity packages whatsoever).
  The only thing Ubuntu adds extra is lots of shiny fluff, which they are doing wrong in my opinion, but then again every other relevant Linux distro is trying to add their own flavour of shiny fluff too.
  Yeah, there was a time span where UI folks tried to cram as many of the config options into the GUI (KDE 3 and the beginnings of GNOME 2), but that was silly to begin with anyway and luckily has passed. If you are accustomed to a normal Linux distribution, Ubuntu in doesn't "hide" anything from you, it just doesn't show everything in a GUI (which is unneccessary anyhow).
  captcha: educable
25. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by umafuckit · 2013-10-17 05:59 · Score: 1
  
  Granted, I did the setup work on both those machines myself - I don't think they could have done the install, but many people can't install Windows either. As long as the system is up and running already though I don't think its too complicated for most people to use.
  I agree. The problems mostly come when some people have set ideas of what they expect from the experience (based on Windows, usually) and these preconceptions are not met. Unless they're motivated to learn the new way, they will end up back on Windows pretty soon. Support doesn't help in this case.
  I've seen the same thing trying to get my girlfriend to analyse her data in R rather than Excel. I explained why R was better for stats and how it could be much quicker for making graphs. I wrote R scripts to automatically generate her graphs (so she doesn't have to click her way through constructing each new graph in Excel). I wrote scripts to make webpages to display them neatly together. I explained how the scripts worked and how to modify them. I commented them very extensively. I spent hours on the sodding thing making the graphs look how she wanted by default she wouldn't have to trudge through the intricacies of ggplot2. She understood why it was better and faster and was grateful. She used it for a short period of time and now she's back to Excel. Basically, if she can't figure out the R way in under 90 seconds she'll just fire up Excel and go back to that. She knows she could come and ask me, but she just can't be bothered.
  
  --
  soylentnews.org
26. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by JohnnyMindcrime · 2013-10-17 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed. And I've never had a single occasion where I've done a Windows installation where I've not had to go off and download drivers from somewhere else to get all the hardware working.
  That doesn't mean it's a problem because when you've done it, everything works fine and everyone is happy - but the Windows people seem to conveniently forget these things when they accuse Linux of being difficult to install.
  
  --
  Windows 10 is great - I used it to download Linux.
27. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  I really liked Caldera back in the day before they got eaten by SCO.
28. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by ohnocitizen · 2013-10-17 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  "What kind of computer should I get?" I will only be advising Linux mint for those people where Linux is a good fit; that is those people who surf the web, send gmails, watch YouTube, and type the occasional document.
  I use linux to write software, play games on steam, lightly edit videos with kdenlive, record voice overs with audacity, and create posters with gimp. Linux doesn't have everything down perfectly, but it is a wonderful system for more than just web browsing and document editing. It's biggest flaw is uneven hardware support, but that is getting better every day.
29. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by everdred · 2013-10-17 07:22 · Score: 2
  
  I have absolutely no problem with intelligent discussion with anyone on the pros and cons of Linux, but why do so many of the anti-Linux people make these generalised, sweeping statements about Linux without putting any meat into their points?
  Precisely what issues have you seen Linux cause?
  "Anti-Linux" is among the least-accurate labels you could use to describe me. However, I've been using it as my primary desktop OS for long enough to develop a memory of a range of bugs that range from "minor annoyance" to "headache" to "complete showstopper." As my Linux knowledge has increased over the last eight years, and as my skills have improved, the issues have become easier to deal with.
  However, what is today a "minor annoyance" to me would be a "complete showstopper" for non-techies like, say, my parents. I have a specific example from the last month.
  I'm running Debian on a recent model ThinkPad. Things should be pretty smooth, right — geek use these! It's normally not a problem, but surprisingly, there are times that the machine fails to suspend properly. That sucks, but not as badly as what happens next: my root partition suddenly becomes full. It seems my syslog, kern.log and messages files get repeatedly filled with the same error message, until they are each multiple gigabytes in size and the root partition has no free space left. Now, because I've learned things over the years, I wrote a small script with sed that cleans out instances of the error from the log files. The problem is, because my root partition is full, the script can't clean up the files unless some space is first freed up. So I first move some large files to another partition, then run the script. Annoying, but with that and a reboot, it's good as new.
  Here's another one from a few years back: I remember having some kind of problem that would cause an error message when logging in to my Gnome desktop. I'd click OK and it would send me back to the login screen. The solution was to edit or delete some file from my home directory before restarting GDM and logging back in. Simple, right? Right... if you know how to use vi or nano or something.
  My parents will never, ever have the skills to diagnose and correct a problem like this. They would be completely screwed until I come by to perform a magical 30-second fix. It's not that I don't want to help them; I just can't always be around to fix what to them would be "complete showstoppers."
30. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by umafuckit · 2013-10-17 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  That doesn't mean it's a problem because when you've done it, everything works fine and everyone is happy - but the Windows people seem to conveniently forget these things when they accuse Linux of being difficult to install.
  I don't recall anyone on this thread saying thta Linux was difficult to install. I think you're seeing anti-Linux sentiments where none exist.
  
  --
  soylentnews.org
31. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by kernelpanicked · 2013-10-17 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. Ubuntu ain't got shit on anyone until I see a game of Tetris in the installer.
  
  --
  Ubuntu: If at first you don't succeed, blindly slap a sudo in front of it
32. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 09:23 · Score: 0
  
  Mandrake Linux was also a VERY easy install.
33. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by david_thornley · 2013-10-17 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  In years of using Ubuntu and Fedora, I never had problems like those.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
34. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by everdred · 2013-10-17 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  I'm glad for you. But suspend (never really tried hibernate) has always been an on-again, off-again problem for me on three laptops over the years... most of the years were spent using Ubuntu. It'll be working fine, and then seemingly out of nowhere, it'll stop working. Or only work intermittently, as it does now with Debian Jessie (after being fine for my first few months with the ThinkPad). But the huge log file problem is unlike anything I've ever had before.
35. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by ffflala · 2013-10-17 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  "User friendly" is necessarily going to be subjective, but I think it's fair to characterize early Ubuntu as more user friendly than other distros at the time. Specifically, they seemed to really focus on making it accessible to people who were unfamiliar with Linux. Early on they would even mail out free install discs on request.
36. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 17:40 · Score: 0
  
  Almost all of my friends (and my entire family, including my elderly parents) use Ubuntu now, without even a Windows dual boot. My parents don't have a computer that will even install Win7, and don't wish to upgrade to a computer that wasn't built in the 2000's, so Xubuntu is their best option, and it runs quite speedily on an on old clunker computer. I even have a couple friends that jumped on solely for the Linux version of Steam; they were so tired of Windows crashing all the time and screwing things up, especially while playing games. Some people can just run games with everything else; others have to literally close EVERY program or risk losing state on everything open should the game crash, and Windows has a bad habit of crashing when you have lots of stuff open. There have been no complaints about Ubuntu though, the Firefox logo is prominent, and a 15 minute explanation of Ubuntu Software Center sets everyone else up to find their own software to do whatever they wish.
  My first word of advice is always: "Forget every bad thing you learned from Windows". LibreOffice is universally loved by every single person who used MS Office.
37. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 17:45 · Score: 0
  
  Hah, and after dealing with hundreds of Windows 7 laptops, I've never seen a single one that will restore properly from hibernate. Even storebought ones with the original OEM system installed. Yet that problem is never mentioned, while it is expounded upon with Linux.
38. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by LordWabbit2 · 2013-10-17 18:05 · Score: 1
  
  but none of it's an "issue" because I help them fix it
  That's an issue right there. YOU have to fix it for them.
  
  --
  There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
39. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-20 07:04 · Score: 0
  
  Linux kernel is THE operating system in Ubuntu. Ubuntu fans fail to even learn the basic facts about Linux.
  Android runs by Linux OS
  Ubuntu runs by Linux OS
  ChromeOS runs by Linux OS
  The list can be continued.
40. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-20 08:27 · Score: 0
  
  Mandrake was very easy to install and was many ways better at 2001 than Ubuntu is today. Even Corel Linux was easy to install (that era) and was better than Ubuntu is today.
41. Re:Ubuntu good for linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-20 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  Missing the point....
  S.U.S.E achieved it before Ubuntu, before it (S.U.S.E) was called SuSE.
Ubuntu Unleashed!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:09 · Score: 0

Ubuntu yawns, and continues to lay down regardless. Needs more support to get up.
1. Re:Ubuntu Unleashed!!!! by contrapunctus · 2013-10-17 05:07 · Score: 1
  
  Lie down? I don't understand what it's laying.
Left out an important one by wjcofkc · 2013-10-17 03:09 · Score: 2

Ubuntu GNOME, a version of Ubuntu that replaces Unity with GNOME was also release as a 13.10 final derivative today. I've been using it since the beta and it's pretty nice. While it ships with GNOME 3.8, it can be upgraded to 3.10

http://ubuntugnome.org/ubuntu-gnome-13-10-is-released/

--
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
1. Re:Left out an important one by binarylarry · 2013-10-17 03:18 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  GNOME is the only DE more fucked up than Unity.
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
2. Re:Left out an important one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:29 · Score: 0
  
  I like it and I use it daily.
  But i know people who hate it and I'm glad there are alternatives like XFCE, KDE, Cinnamon, etc.
3. Re:Left out an important one by wjcofkc · 2013-10-17 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  How? I'd like a breakdown please.
  
  --
  Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
4. Re:Left out an important one by wjcofkc · 2013-10-17 05:06 · Score: 2
  
  I can only guess that binarylarry has not used GNOME in a great while. Personally, I hated GNOME for many years and for many reasons. It was 3.8\3.10 that brought me back. They provide an elegant experience with everything you need minimal clicks or keyboard shortcuts away. I challenge anyone to spend a week with either and not come back having had a good experience.
  
  --
  Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
5. Re:Left out an important one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't look like GNOME 2!
  Do you need more breakdown?
6. Re:Left out an important one by kmg90 · 2013-10-18 04:58 · Score: 1
  
  GNOME 3+ yes... but I liked GNOME prior to it trying to mimic Unity and trying something radically different only to find it completely bloated and confusing
Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by shellster_dude · 2013-10-17 03:09 · Score: 0

I left Ubuntu back when they started making their own UI and doing it terribly.

I'd never go back, even if they had fixed all their flaws because of the inability to easily upgrade with each version.

These days I run Debian Testing with XFCE. Mostly painless, rolling upgrades.
1. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by armanox · 2013-10-17 03:13 · Score: 2
  
  It's a much nicer interface then GNOME. I'd install Unity on Fedora if it worked.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
2. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by DeathToBill · 2013-10-17 03:17 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I agree. I don't get all the Unity hate here. It's a GUI that lets me do most things without moving my hands from the keyboard. What's not to like?
  
  --
  Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
3. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by freeze128 · 2013-10-17 03:33 · Score: 2
  
  I didn't like it because the application bar on the left only had a teeny little arrow pointing to the icon when the app was running. It wasn't obvious at first what that meant.
  
  All the HATE that you refer to is probably because unity sends your local search query out to the internet. That way, Canonical can see when you're searching your own hard disk for "Hot llama porn.mpg".
4. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by fph+il+quozientatore · 2013-10-17 03:41 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  People like what they're used to, even if it's not necessarily the best thing.
  That's why it takes an awful lot of work to convince someone to switch from Windows to Linux, especially when they are at a point in which regedit-hacking is "natural" and "easy" to them.
  That's why neither Emacs nor Vi have adopted standard rest-of-the-world shortcuts such as ctrl+c, ctrl+v, after they've been around for, like, 30 years?
  That's why you can't remove an option or change something in a software without disrupting someone's workflow (I'm too lazy to look up the relevant xkcd).
  My answer is: forget about these old get-off-my-lawn users grumbling and go on, especially if what you are doing makes sense from a usability point of view. Focus on making things easy for new users instead.
  (I guess I can kiss my karma goodbye - I have probably offended every possible category of Slashdot users here.)
  
  --
  My first program:
  Hell Segmentation fault
5. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by rotaryexpress · 2013-10-17 03:43 · Score: 2
  
  Right now it's fashionable to hate Unity/Canonical.
  
  I use Unity on all of my desktops/laptops and find it fast, stable and productive. Incremental updates is what you want from a mature, well designed product, not massive changes every single release.
6. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by IANAAC · 2013-10-17 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  ... I don't get all the Unity hate here.
  I get the hate, at least up until now. It's the horrible reliance on compiz. Way too many parts that can (and do) break on updates.
7. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:48 · Score: 0
  
  That way, Canonical can see when you're searching your own hard disk for "Hot llama porn.mpg".
  
  I thought that was part of the base install? Maybe I missed something there.
8. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Mathieu+Lu · 2013-10-17 04:26 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  oblig xkcd: http://xkcd.org/1172/ ;)
9. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by pmontra · 2013-10-17 04:29 · Score: 1
  
  For me it's the menu at the top and the launcher at the left. I can't stand any of them. I always merged Gnome 2's top bar in the bottom one on any fresh install, deleted the parts of them that I don't use and thank's god Gnome 2 has no launcher/docker. The app menu or ALT-F2 are good enough. I'm working on 12.04 with fallback mode (I think it's called like that) and obviously I deinstalled the packages for the global menu. My screen is tall enough to handle per app menus (still a 16:10). The compiz cube is great for handling workspaces and it gives a good cognitive methaphor of what a workspace is, instead of just materializing windows out of nowhere. I rotate the cube with CRTL-ALT-arrow, ALT-tab works as expected so I use the touchpad very little.
  But yes, sometimes compiz breaks on updates and must be reconfigured, even without Unity. Annoying but it gets fixed soon and I go back to a DE I can work with.
10. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by fa2k · 2013-10-17 05:05 · Score: 1
  
  My answer is: forget about these old get-off-my-lawn users grumbling and go on, especially if what you are doing makes sense from a usability point of view. Focus on making things easy for new users instead.
  Would have agreed if you said "focus on making things better instead". If you break the existing functions for high productivity, and replace it with something that's "easy for new users", it's no wonder people get upset. People are only "new users" for a few days or weeks, then many people require more advanced functionality. So optimising only for "new users" at the cost of more advanced functionality, like Ubuntu and Gnome seem to do, is bound to cause frustration.
11. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  People like what they're used to, even if it's not necessarily the best thing...
  That's why neither Emacs nor Vi have adopted standard rest-of-the-world shortcuts such as ctrl+c, ctrl+v, after they've been around for, like, 30 years
  Uh, no. That's not why emacs and vi don't implement the windows shortcuts. The reason is that it wouldn't make sense. Both emacs and vi are more than just text editors -- they are editing paradigms. You have the emacs paradigm, you have the vi paradigm, and you have the windows paradigm. Trying to combine them would be like trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. Just find a new editor that uses the windows paradigm.
  It's not as if emacs and vi users have been asking for the windows shortcuts all this time, and the developers have stubbornly refused. There is no reason to ask for such a thing, because if you aren't happy with the paradigm, the correct solution is to switch editors. FYI, there are plenty of other linux editors which do implement the windows shortcuts. These editors, of course, follow the windows editing paradigm.
  You're not a vi or emacs user, are you? ;)
12. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:22 · Score: 0
  
  I'll also add that the tone of your post implies that the windows shortcuts are somehow better. Ironically, the reason they are "better" (to you) is because YOU are used to the windows editing paradigm. Rest assured, emacs and vi users both have their own set of "shortcuts" (they are refered to as "commands", since they aren't "short" for anything), and if you ask any emacs or vi user, they would be happy to demonstrate. Just ask them to slow it down by a factor of 10 so you can actually see it happen. ;)
13. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by 0123456 · 2013-10-17 05:24 · Score: 2
  
  It's a GUI that lets me do most things without moving my hands from the keyboard. What's not to like?
  You don't quite get this GUI thing, do you?
14. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by iris-n · 2013-10-17 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  That's the kind of mentality that leads Firefox to shipping with a different interface every version.
  
  --
  entropy happens
15. Re: Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:40 · Score: 0
  
  Well, I would love Unity if I could move the task bar to the bottom. .. but I can't :(
16. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:49 · Score: 0
  
  People like what they're used to, even if it's not necessarily the best thing.
  That's doesn't explain what's going on here.
  Windows went through many, many UI changes between Windows 3.1 and Windows 7. Almost all of those changes were improvements, and relatively few people complained.
  What's new is that in the past 2 years, we've entered a fundamentally new era where certain influential companies are adamant about trying to forcibly merge the dual-montior-desktop experience and the smartphone experience in to a single unified experience. This grand experiment has spectacularly failed, many times over (GNOME3, Unity, Windows8).
  It's time to stop dismissing this consistent pattern of failure as just "grumpy people who don't like change". What is actually happening here is that major features are being removed from the desktop, and desktop workflow is being disoptimized with no option to configure the UI for optimal desktop usage. These UI designers have arbitrarily decreed that the desktop shall look, feel, and act more like a smartphone, in spite of the fact that the user base has not requested such a change. (Seriously, it's quite difficult to find even a single posting on any on-line forum where any desktop user has wished that his desktop was more like a smartphone.) The resulting disoptimization of the desktop is objectively bad, and you can read some very good analysis about the important UI design principles they are violating.
17. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by MysteriousPreacher · 2013-10-17 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  The term GUI doesn't imply a control method. You're thinking of WIMP
  
  --
  -- Using the preview button since 2005
18. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Capt.DrumkenBum · 2013-10-17 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  But why would I be searching my hard drive for "Hot llama porn.mpg"?
  That file would be under:
  /home/USERNAME/Tax/Backups/2010/Business/Online/2010tax.pdf/Pr0n/Animal/4legs/fuzzy/llamas/
  Obviously. I mean where else would it be?
  The point is, keep your files organized and you never need to search for them in the first place.
  
  --
  If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
19. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 07:57 · Score: 0
  
  That's why neither Emacs nor Vi have adopted standard rest-of-the-world shortcuts such as ctrl+c, ctrl+v, after they've been around for, like, 30 years?
  I haven't used Emacs on Windows, but the default Vim install on Windows comes with a .vim file setting up those keybindings instead of the normal Vim ones by default. I wouldn't be surprised if the default Emacs install did the same (and I'm sure there's a file you can download to do it if not). There's nothing stopping you from using that .vim file on your Linux computer if you like those keybindings.
20. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Belial6 · 2013-10-17 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  Search is the primary interface for Unity. Apple convinced Mac users that doing a search for everything you want to access is better than an organized menu, and Ubuntu is trying to mimic that.
21. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  Ya, I'm "used to" my multiple video card and monitor setup actually working. It doesn't work with Unity or GNOME3.
22. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 08:42 · Score: 0
  
  The irony is that the "new users" Unity is supposed to appeal to are the very ones who are complaining about it. Anyone who didn't like Unity and was able to do so switched to an alternative a long time ago. Exactly the same thing applies to Gnome Shell.
23. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  So the huge amount of mouse travel to launch things in Unity is an improvement over the tiny amount of travel required to launch things from the old menu interface? Right.
  BTW, before someone spouts off with the "learn the keyboard shorcuts" rant, I move between a number of computer running several different OS's every day. I'm not going to waste a lot of effort learning the keyboard shortcuts on an OS I don't use constantly. Plus when I'm using Gimp/Photoshop/etc, my hand is already on the mouse. For some folks, the keyboard shortcuts aren't shortcuts.
24. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 12:20 · Score: 0
  
  The application menu isn't on the application.
25. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by nullchar · 2013-10-17 15:21 · Score: 1
  
  Windows went through many, many UI changes between Windows 3.1 and Windows 7. Almost all of those changes were improvements, and relatively few people complained.
  No, lots of people complained, they just didn't have any choice. A minor change to Windows vs a major change with a new operating system. However, if Ubuntu ships with a new desktop environment like Unity, Linux users have a choice -- change the distribution but not the full OS.
  I do agree that:
  
  companies are trying to forcibly merge the dual-monitor-desktop experience and the smartphone experience in to a single unified experience and this grand experiment has spectacularly failed.
  One size does not fit all.
26. Re: Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 15:22 · Score: 0
  
  I know, right? Some of us turn our widescreen monitors vertical. The task bar should waste the least amount of screen real estate.
27. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by wed128 · 2013-10-18 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  Technically, Emacs keystrokes are shortcuts, because all of that functionality can be referred to by full name after M-x (by default).
28. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-18 03:01 · Score: 0
  
  There's not much in the way of useful software for Linux so they figure everything you need will actually fit nicely pinned to the dock, whereas no one makes software for MacOS so Apple just needs enough room to fit their own default apps in the dock. Windows on the other hand needs room for all the malware and free trials to take over your workspace.
29. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-18 22:16 · Score: 0
  
  This appears to be a new Slashdot meme: "Right now it's fashionable to hate [...]".
30. Re:Biggest problem with Ubuntu: Upgrades by fph+il+quozientatore · 2013-10-19 21:32 · Score: 1
  
  Please explain to me once again how switching the bindings of Alt-W and Ctrl-C would irremediably change the "editing paradigm".
  Re your other comment, Windows shortcuts are not better, they are standard.
  And no, you're wrong, I have been using Emacs for a while and I still use it every now and then today. I have kept the habit of pressing Ctrl-X Ctrl-S to save rather than simply Ctrl-S when I am using another editor. Doesn't do me any good and is occasionally dangerous (when I happen to have highlighted text, or stuff in the clipboard I wish to preserve).
  
  --
  My first program:
  Hell Segmentation fault
Yes,you're very clever. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:14 · Score: 0

Now shut up and listen.
Do we get proxy config from the installer yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:29 · Score: 0

You can now setup Wifi networking from the installer making it easier to install updates and extra packages during the install.
Sure, fine, that's all nice and good. Now, for those of us in corporate situations that demand it*, how's support for configuring the damn proxy settings from the installer coming along? Or at least respecting the "don't go to the network" option so that you don't need to know the magical point at which you need to click the Skip button so the installer doesn't hang waiting for a network response that will never come from a proxy it's not talking to?
*: Flavors of Ubuntu are our standard-issue VM OS, plus it's encouraged by the network team and nearly all developers here to install it at least alongside Windows on new machines, so installing it is a more common activity here than you'd think.
Seriously by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 03:33 · Score: 0

Just what the Linux desktop needs, new installer for software and a new network manager software. There's been some time already without a completely new file manager, perhaps we should get that too?
1. Re:Seriously by jones_supa · 2013-10-17 04:27 · Score: 1
  
  The video and audio players are already in need of unnecessary rework, too.
2. Re:Seriously by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 07:31 · Score: 0
  
  They don't have to do it with Nautilus, the Gnome people did that themselves. Canonical has actually restored some of the removed features.
Incremental improvements underwhelming? by HalAtWork · 2013-10-17 04:08 · Score: 2

Operating system updates should only have incremental improvements.

--
Twinstiq, game news
1. Re:Incremental improvements underwhelming? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 06:27 · Score: 0
  
  But... but.... but.... Where's da innovationz!?!?!!?!?!!!?!?!?!?
I've said it before, I'll say it again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 04:33 · Score: 0

Unity = Metro in Linux. It is absolute trash.
1. Re:I've said it before, I'll say it again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 04:44 · Score: 0
  
  Unity does not resemble Metro at all.
2. Re:I've said it before, I'll say it again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 05:03 · Score: 0
  
  It doesn't look like it, it just sucks like it.
3. Re:I've said it before, I'll say it again by apcullen · 2013-10-17 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  the same thought occurred to me
Lubuntu by forpeterssake · 2013-10-17 04:35 · Score: 2

Don't forget Lubuntu. The LXDE variant of Ubuntu is, in my opinion, and under-appreciated distro. The stability and community support of Ubuntu, with the speed of the lightweight LXDE and without that distracting Unity stuff. For older PCs or machines with modest specs, this has repeatedly been my distro of choice. 13.10 added Zram for the live CD too, which will help with low spec machines. By the way, Lubuntu is a good choice for former windows users because of the familiar taskbar, window, and menu layout. I never did get used to having the buttons on the left when I used Ubuntu.
1. Re:Lubuntu by jones_supa · 2013-10-17 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  Lubuntu is actually somewhat buggy. For example, just try changing the height of the default panel and see what happens. Also the configuration is lacking, there isn't even an option to disable touchpad tapping. For slower computers (actually, any computer) Xubuntu is a far more robust choice, and not essentially more heavyweight than Lubuntu.
2. Re:Lubuntu by forpeterssake · 2013-10-17 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  I have found Lubuntu to be somewhat faster, but I can't argue with Xubuntu (or Linux Mint xfce) as very solid operating system for beginners or advanced users. Very good choices. Seems like the best things in the Ubuntu sphere are happening outside the core Ubuntu distro.
3. Re:Lubuntu by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-10-17 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Try installing xSensors in Lubuntu for a truely wierd experience!
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
ubunt-who? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 04:37 · Score: 0

Linux mint is where its at. Unity must die
Preinstalled editors support ^C ^V by tepples · 2013-10-17 04:40 · Score: 1

That's why neither Emacs nor Vi have adopted standard rest-of-the-world shortcuts such as ctrl+c, ctrl+v, after they've been around for, like, 30 years?
The editors you're more likely to see preinstalled on these GUI Linux distributions, such as Gedit, Leafpad, Geany, and Kate, all support the well-known keyboard shortcuts out of the box. But I'll grant that that's not much help when you're accessing a remote computer through SSH.
Just upgraded my Kubuntu by dargaud · 2013-10-17 05:31 · Score: 1

It was painless, took about 15 minutes and works fine now. The only issue I've noticed is that the windows titlebars become transparent when I click on them and when I right-click on them the popup menu (Move to Desktop / Activities / Minimize / ...) is transparent and unreadable. Searching through the options didn't give me any lead.

--
Non-Linux Penguins ?
WARNING: Ubuntu ISO sizes are too big for CDs now by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 07:56 · Score: 0

I started downloading the ISOs just now, and when they finished downloading I noticed that both of the the 13.10 ISOs are too big to burn onto CDs.
All Ubuntu releases up to and including 12.04 fit on "700MB" CDs (actual capacity: 737,280,000 bytes = 737.28 MB = 703.125 MiB). I'll be using 12.04 until the next LTS, so I didn't bother to download the 12.10 versions, but they're listed as 763 MiB (64-bit) and 753M MiB (32-bit) on the website, which means they require "800MB" CDs (actual capacity: 829.440 MB = 791.016 MiB). The 64-bit version of 13.04 fits on an 800MB CD, but the 32-bit version of 13.04 requires a 900MB CD (actual capacity: 912.384 MB = 870.117 MiB). And then for some unknown reason the latest ISOs won't fit on 900MB CDs:
732213248 ubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso
735358976 ubuntu-12.04-desktop-i386.iso
limit for 700MB CDs: 737.28 MB
823132160 ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.iso
limit for 800MB CDs: 829.440 MB
832569344 ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso
limit for 900MB CDs: 912.384 MB
925892608 ubuntu-13.10-desktop-amd64.iso
938475520 ubuntu-13.10-desktop-i386.iso
I'm guessing this issue was mentioned in earlier discussions, but I missed it the first time around.
Re:WARNING: Ubuntu ISO sizes are too big for CDs n by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-17 08:35 · Score: 0

What's a CD? Is it like USB stick, but round?
Installed Win8.1 and Ubuntu 13.10 last night by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-18 02:58 · Score: 0

After starting the download for the Windows 8.1 update last night I then downloaded Ubuntu 13.10, installed it, updated it, and installed: AMD proprietary driver, Ubuntu Restricted Extras, and VLC. After doing all that I then went and checked on the Win8.1 download and it was around 30% completed. I ended up going to sleep after midnight rather than continue waiting for the Windows update to finish. I'm hoping it will be ready to install when I get home tonight.
If I remember the sizes correctly:
-Complete Ubuntu 13.10 (64-bit) OS = 865MB
-Windows 8.1 "Update" = 3.6GB