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Volvo Developing Nano-Battery Tech Built Into Car Body Panels
cartechboy writes "Electric vehicle batteries have three problems — they're big, heavy, and expensive. But what if you could shift EV batteries away from being big blocks under the car and engineer them into the car itself? Research groups at Imperial College London working with Volvo have spent three years developing a way to do exactly that. The researchers are storing energy in nano structure batteries woven into carbon fiber--which can then be formed into car body panels. These panel-style batteries charge and store energy faster than normal EV batteries, and they are also lighter and more eco-friendly. The research team has built a Volvo S80 prototype featuring the panels where the battery panel material has been used for the trunk lid. With the materials used on the doors, roof and hood, estimated range for a mid-size electric car is around 80 miles."
Great, so now it's not just one battery pack in the back that's a fire risk, the whole exterior of the car could spontaneously combust at any moment. Oh, and good bye independant body shops.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
...is that it provides people with a really strong incentive not to sideswipe you, since all that energy would be dumped into your car when you hit the panel. I am sure the pyrotechnics would be quite pretty.
Hey if THAT guy can install it, maybe I CAN!
Wouldn't this work well with some kind of solar panel technology that charges the panels. You would never have to plug it in.
Seriously, am I the only one who thinks this is the most retarded idea ever?
So now you've made the batteries an integral part of the structure of the car.
A. They're unreplacable.
B. Now any structural failure could cause the batteries to discharge
C. Potentially any surface on the car is now a shock hazard.
I'm sure there's a few others somebody else can come up with.
The summary mentions 3 of the 4 major disadvantages of batteries for EVs. If EVs are to become mainstream, the range needs to be addressed. Any mid-sized pickup truck can handle big and heavy batteries, but no serious vehicle (with the exception of the Model S) will sell well with the ridiculous range of today's batteries.
As Tesla discovered http://slashdot.org/story/13/10/04/2317232/owner-of-battery-fire-tesla-vehicle-car-performed-very-well-will-buy-again , batteries store lots of energy that can be released in an accident. Where does the energy go when one of these carbon-fibre body panels gets damaged? Are the passengers surrounded by these body panels?
Additionally, how well do carbon fibres burn? Like a torch, or like a bomb?
And finally, having big chunky batteries on the bottom of the car improve stability drastically. Are these panels throwing that advantage away?
(How appropriate, my captcha: Phoenix)
Death Trap at 12 o'clock!
How long do they last before having to be replaced?
How much does it cost to replace them?
Oh my god ! I can't stand to get such a car, a whooping 80 miles range after three years of hard work ! That's so exciting ! Electric -err coal/shale gas/nuclear- cars are the future !
By the way, when these marvelous batteries won't charge anymore are we supposed to trash the car ?
1. If you're in a crash or just dent a body panel with this crap in it how much is that going to cost?
2. What happens when you need to replace the batteries because they don't hold a charge? You replace all the body panels?
I totally understand the "problems" with batteries in EVs. As the summary states "they're big, heavy, and expensive", but they also need to be serviceable, easily swapped or replaced, and then made smaller, lighter, cheaper over time. The barriers to EVs are gas/petrol stations. There's a lot of them! Sure, some have chargers now, but what EVs need are battery swap stations. Of course, this would also require a standard for battery placement, shape and technology to work, but the battery swapping (like propane tanks a la Blue Rhino) I feel is the best solution for competing with internal combustion based cars and the multitude of fueling stations available. Range issues all but disappear if I can pull over just about anywhere and swap out the battery for a fully charged new one in two minutes or less. Integrating batteries into other parts of the car seems dumb to me. Sure, something that makes electricity to help charge the battery pack would be nice, but batteries in body panels for a vehicle that runs on them? Don't see that as a good idea. Standardization of a battery pack and mass deployment of swap stations would be the big win for EVs. Going to be a while yet. Lots could happen.
Having the batteries centralized like in the Tesla is a GOOD thing. They keep the center of gravity low on the car making it almost impossible to roll (seriously, the NHTSA had to specially design a scenario to get it to roll) and they make it possible to swap batteries for a quick charge which is going to be necessary unless the capacity of batteries can be increased by a factor of 10 with charge speeds doubled or tripled.
This is a step backwards in many ways not to mention the least of which is to necessarily increase the cost of mild accidents to replace the battery integrated pieces.
Fine, I'll join the dumb comments parade.
"The whole car body is batteries."
"Shocking!"
Need to charge your cellphone? Tie the USB ground lead to a manhole cover, tie the other lead to a nail and pound it into the quarterpanel of the nearest Volvo (oops, wrong voltage :-) )
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Seems to me the #1 problem with EV batteries is the time it takes to charge them. We need to get to the point that it is possible to re-fuel/recharge an EV in 5 minutes or less, like it takes to fill up at a gas station.
How about spending time and money researching something like a exchangeable battery pack, something standard sized which you could pull in to an EV station, drop out your used battery and exchange for a set of fully charged ones?
That would solve so many problems. I know Tesla is working on something like this, but they don't go far enough to make it usable in any car, like gas stations are today.
>>> But what if you could shift EV batteries away from being big blocks under the car and engineer them into the car itself?
You actually want all the weight to be in the middle of the car and low down. If you raised the car's centre of gravity or made it off-centre (by redistributing the weight of the batteries) you will make the car handle a lot worse.
Also batteries can be dangerous as they contain a LOT of energy. Physical damage can easily result in fire. They are best protected by being located in the middle of the car. If you made the body panels batteries so they contain all that energy, one small bump or even door ding could be catastrophic.
Actually it might be fun to see those freaks that dont care about denting other peoples parked cars when they open their doors get burnt alive.
The amount of eye rolling and blinking in the video is an obvious BS indicator. Even the guy explaining the idea seems to know it's never going to be used on a large scale.
most dishwashers and refrigerators run off of 120V AC power in the USA, so the voltage they operate on is definitely dangerous. However, they do not pose a risk of being hit by cars usually, so the "zapping wires flailing everywhere" nightmare is not likely with them. With the high power-density Lithium ion batteries, there is often a risk of fire or explosion when they are damaged in the right way. With enough cars on the road endangering each other by being piloted by dumbasses texting or putting on makeup, the risk skyrockets...
Since batteries are electricity driven by chemical reactions, I've always wondered about the impact of cold-weather climates on electric cars - both in the short term immediate-power context, and in the longer-term cycle life of the system. I suspect that the reports of range, power output, etc are all based on relatively favorable situations.
Living in northern MN, there are several weeks if not months per year that I walk out and start my vehicle (parked outdoors) and every piece of it has to be -20C, -35C or colder. I have to imagine that body panel-batteries would be even more vulnerable to exterior temps? (Plus, frankly, there's something cheery about being warmed by the residual heat of a constant chain of explosions when it's pitch dark and -40C. How fast does an all-electric car warm up, and how much does this warmth "cost" in terms of range, etc - for a gas/diesel, it's a freebie.)
-Styopa
Finally, a good way to deal with people key-scratching your car.
The thing that frightens me most about this - and any electric vehicle come to that - is finding myself sitting inches from a high voltage and very high current power supply that, if shorted, would release all that energy in one blinding flash! And surely, building it into the body panels would increase the risk of a short through even minor accident damage.
I seem to recall Howard Hughes working on a steam powered car. Everybody panel had to be turned into a radiator, with the result that even a minor ding would scald everyone to death!
At least in an i/c powered car, you are only carrying half the fuel required to move it (the rest comes from the air). In an electric car you are carrying ALL of it - and in close proximity! Even if it doesn't go up in a blinding blue flash, the chances of electrocuting either the passengers or would-be rescuers in an accident is frightening!
Whether this becomes an actual product or not. They will test the hell out of it and any faults in the design will come out. But they will learn a lot in the process.
It will take engineering like this to create an electric vehicle that can truly replace the gasoline powered one. And whether it is actually used in production cars isn't nearly a relevant as "were can this technology be really useful?". I'm thinking of several ways this would work for a small electric fishing boat for example.
I suppose they use less nasty stuff than current batteries.
Of course we recycle current batteries pretty well, oh, and metal body panels. I am sure it can't be TOOO hard to recycle nano-battery carbon fiber panels can it? Is it even possible in theory? What happens if you throw these in a dump with water, random metal things, and pressure?
I see the CG is a big point. I love the local EV that is 3 ft wide and looks like it would tip if you lean on it but has a 1000 lb battery pack in bottom and handles great. Too bad it is/was $40k+ for half a car.
These guys at Imperial College London have been working on this for a while now. Previous coverage on /. Integrating Capacitors Into Car Frames
you kids have it easy. back in my day we used to have exploding bags of hot gas that fired out of the door panels to protect you. and they STILL spilled your mocha latte everywhere! now you kids with your new fangled battery cars just get a warm splash of lithium.
Good people go to bed earlier.
That's not a bad idea at all. Two questions, though: (1) How does this affect accidents, specifically willingness of emergency crews to pry open a crunched car body to extract you, and (2), how does this affect the cost and/or practicality of replacing the batteries when they inevitably begin to wear out?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Exactly... how's this supposed to be more eco-friendly?
That's as brilliant as storing gasoline in pockets in body panels of the car. One fender bender could cause huge problems.
morons
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I understand this "prototype" is capable of 80 miles but lets say it was able to do 400 miles, I would still be limited to 400 miles. What Tesla is trying to do is have gas stations keep charged batteries in storage for quick swaps. The Telsa batterie is a quick disconnect/reconnect so that you can extend the range beyond its current limited range. I think in the near future it is the best option for EVs.
It will be a while, before a consensus will emerge on what a good swap battery standard would be. Also, there are genset trailers, ie, gasoline powered electric generator trailers, for the occassional long distance trip in a BEV. Genset trailers make sense, because most trips do not need to be long, so the cost, and weight, of an internal combustion engine can be avoided.
Now when my rechargeable batteries wear out, I can replace all of the body panels! Sweet!
Wow, so all those batteries distributed on a city bus in the form of passenger cell phones, laptops and PDAs are a distributed problem waiting to happen?!
This strikes me as having potential to augment the traditional battery in a car. I don't think it will replace it, nor should it. Combine this with a moderate sized battery and you extend the range of the car dramatically. Better, you can have two different systems optimized for different uses, one a slow charging energy dense battery and the other a quick charging efficient capacitor mopping up regenerative breaking energy and delivering it in a quick burst. Add in a few other systems such as integrating solar power to help run the increasing number to gadgets in cars and the electric car starts to really shine.
I remember hearing about a submarine design where the batteries were deliberately distributed in the outer part of the vessel, underneath the skin. While that increased the risk of damage to the batteries themselves, the heavy batteries also served as a layer of armor, giving additional protection for the ship's interior. So depending on the design decisions made, it might actually increase safety in some situations.
Electric cars went about 50 to 100 miles almost 100 years ago.
They do the same today.
Hopefully by about 2100, they should go 200 miles.
Until you park your car, come back to find someone opened their door into yours, cracked part of your battery and now you don't have enough capacity to get home.
(or it caught fire, like lithium batteries like doing when punctured)
Electric cars went about 50 to 100 miles almost 100 years ago.
They do the same today.
Hopefully by about 2100, they should go 200 miles.
The "low-end" 60 kW-h version of the Model S gets 208 miles by the more conservative EPA estimate. The more expensive 85 kW-h gets 310 miles by European standards or 265 miles by EPA ones.
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