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New Standard For Website Authentication Proposed: SQRL (Secure QR Login)

fsagx writes "Steve Gibson has proposed a new standard method for website authentication. The SQRL system (pronounced 'squirrel') eliminates problems inherent in traditional login techniques. The website's login presents a QR code containing the URL of its authentication service, plus a nonce. The user's smartphone signs the login URL using a private key derived from its master secret and the URL's domain name. The Smartphone sends the matching public key to identify the user, and the signature to authenticate it. It may be used alongside of traditional username/password to ease adoption."

234 comments

  1. Challenge/response tunneled inside of SSL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So, basically... challenge/response tunneled inside of SSL, but with a QR code? Quick, get the patent office on the phone.

    1. Re:Challenge/response tunneled inside of SSL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, basically... challenge/response tunneled inside of SSL, but with a QR code? Quick, get the patent office on the phone.

      Wait! Wait! Be sure to add "on a cell phone" to the patent application!

    2. Re:Challenge/response tunneled inside of SSL? by Seumas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I recently checked out the two podcasts where he went into extensive detail on SQRL and he made it pretty clear that he isn't looking to make money on this concept if it were to take off and that he "doesn't really even have time to do much with it". He presented his idea, documented it, opened up some discussion about it and a forum for people to discuss it in and left it at that. Say what you may about him, but I don't get any sort of "erhmagerd, I'm gonna get rich off this" going on here. I'm sure if clear flaws are demonstrated to him, he'd readily discuss them and admit them when they were uncovered.

  2. Gibson is NSA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No doubt...that's connecting online identities to tracable mobile phones that can be monitored by satellite in real-time, along with information requests from providers.

    Don't buy it.

    1. Re:Gibson is NSA... by Seumas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wasn't Gibson one of the first people we heard a reasonable explanation of the NSA tapping from? When we were all blaming Facebook and Google and Facebook and Google were denying direct feeds to the NSA, he asserted that what was probably happening was tapping of the trunk just externally to the private points of these entities, such that they may never have even known it was going on. Then, it turns out, that is pretty much what was happening in many of the cases.

      I don't know a whole lot about the guy, but he sure seems to have an awful lot of anti NSA and pro-privacy stances, as far as I can tell.

    2. Re:Gibson is NSA... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      I don't see anything connecting Gibson to the NSA in that "article". Just more of the same old "Steve is a hyperbolic go-to-expert for the media" stuff that has been around for years.

    3. Re:Gibson is NSA... by ArbitraryName · · Score: 1

      That information was hardly news. We knew that in 2007.

    4. Re:Gibson is NSA... by chewy_fruit_loop · · Score: 1

      ...which he did point out when he was explaining his prism theory

    5. Re:Gibson is NSA... by chewy_fruit_loop · · Score: 1

      according to that site....his major sin is not being part of the "scene"

    6. Re:Gibson is NSA... by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      To be fair, there is a wealth of links debunking his claims. That post has a decent amount of evidence to support the assertions.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    7. Re:Gibson is NSA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > "When those insecure and maliciously potent Windows XP machines are mated to high-bandwidth Internet connections, we are going to experience an escalation of Internet terrorism the likes of which has never been seen before."

      I read enough.

  3. Smartphone required to browse? by SilentConsole · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think it will be very popular to force user to pull out a smart-phone ( or even HAVE a smart phone ) to use a website.

    1. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by w_dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or just create a browser plugin that will read a QR and open a new tab to the link. No smartphone required. Of course, that kind of highlights why it's a dumb idea anyway.

    2. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by SilentConsole · · Score: 2

      Reading more fully - there is a suggestion for providing a clickable link as well from a desktop - so, tying identity uniquely to a device is actually the intent here, still not a great user experience.

    3. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the article, he mentions how to make it work for desktop or tablet. The QR code becomes a link with sqrl:// that a desktop/tablet app can work with.

    4. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by postbigbang · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Pull out your cellphone. Click. Now your IP on the cell and phone are tied to your browser session and it's IP address. If geolocating wasn't easy enough, they have you at a doubley coordinated vector.

      This one bites-- why not a Yubikey or another more easily used and less invasive secondary auth? It's not so much the niceness of a secondary auth, rather, it ties too much data for somebody's hadoop mosh pit.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    5. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But their website says:

      It eliminates every problem inherent in traditional login techniques.

      So I guess they're just swapping new problems for the traditional ones ;-)

    6. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by tepples · · Score: 1

      so, tying identity uniquely to a device is actually the intent here

      Banks and credit unions already do this sort of two-factor auth: "We don't recognize your computer. Click here and we'll send you an e-mail or text message or call you with a code to access your account on this device. You'll only have to do this once for each device."

    7. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How else will they track your exact location when you go to a website?

    8. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by xombo · · Score: 1

      *every time you clear your cookies

      FTFY

    9. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just add a camera to Google Glass.

    10. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by SleepyHappyDoc · · Score: 1

      People still do that? I don't think I've cleared my cookies in five years...

      --
      Stasis is death. Embrace change.
    11. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but the browsers always ask "never for this site?" in terms of remembering passwords.

    12. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I don't think I've cleared my cookies in five years..."

      You must not binge drink.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    13. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Seumas · · Score: 1

      I've mostly just seen banks use the "is this your icon?!" image that you have to input a password next to so you know it's really the legitimate banking website. I never understood the point of that, though, since a nefarious site could just as well be passing along your username to the real site and then returning the verification icon to you on the other end...?

    14. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by jonathanjespersen · · Score: 1

      *every time you clear your cookies

      FTFY

      Not always. There are products that exist that bind client data to your user profile and map your habits to identify risky behavior, and cookies are not required.

    15. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with banks is they don't have a standard at all. I login using a combination of client number/password/pin to one bank and just username/password to another. My spouse logs in to one of her banks using authentication key/username/password combo, and has to use codebook/client number/secret answer combo to log in to another. This is plain stupid and I don't know why no one had a look into this, and I mean on a global scale.

    16. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is still better than the banking site that doesn't prove themselves to you and demand you input a password, then the question to prove to them who you are.

    17. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Pull out your cellphone. Click. Now your IP on the cell and phone are tied to your browser session and it's IP address. If geolocating wasn't easy enough, they have you at a doubley coordinated vector.

      Not to mention your location. Getting location services is a standard part of HTML5 and is how mobile Google Maps works. So they can get your location, force you to watch some ads before letting you in, etc.

      Actually, two smartphones required to browse. One to navigate to the website, the other to take the picture of the QR code on the first one's screen. Oh, and you'll probably need a third hand to type in the password that is computed on the second phone into the password box displayed on the first phone.

      Geez, makes you wonder if someone simply applied an XKCD comic as a standard...

    18. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like my bank who has me enter an ephemeral PIN to log in which is generated by an app on my phone? Two-factor identification isn't popular. Shit, one-factor identification isn't popular. How many people complain about having to have a password and then the same day complain that their identity was stolen?

    19. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      I can see this being useful where your physical location is already known, e.g. Online banking / purchasing. I don't care if my bank knows I'm signing in from my home; They already know where I live. I have a mortgage with them.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    20. Re:Smartphone required to browse? by MouseAT · · Score: 1

      Because it's not intended to be a secondary auth. It's intended as a primary auth. It's a username and password replacement, not a second factor. One where your personal master key never leaves the device under your control.

  4. this idea is not going to go anywhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    seriously, just face it, this idea is not going to be adopted.

    1. Re:this idea is not going to go anywhere. by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      Eh, our whole country adopted nonce for nearly four decades.

  5. Scanning random QR codes by rminsk · · Score: 2

    So you go to a website and it displays a QR code it wants you to scan. Who knows where that QR code could redirect too.

    Also, I go to a website on my smartphone. How do I scan the QR code? With my other smartphone?

    1. Re:Scanning random QR codes by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 3, Funny

      Are there people who still carry only one 'phone around? And yet people rely on them so much.....

    2. Re:Scanning random QR codes by Seumas · · Score: 2

      No. That's where the QR code also being a clickable link comes into play.

      This SQRL thing is documented on his site and he has a forum open to critique it and expose flaws in it, so this stuff is all easily accessible to anyone who wants to take a half hour to read it.

    3. Re:Scanning random QR codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most all the criticisms that have been expressed here have already been debated.

    4. Re:Scanning random QR codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this SQRL is clickable then why make it a QR code at all? What is the advantage of a QR code if the damn thing is clickable anyway?

      He could have called it "SClickL" and avoided everyone making fun of the name. SQRL? That's just nuts.

    5. Re:Scanning random QR codes by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      So you go to a website and it displays a QR code it wants you to scan. Who knows where that QR code could redirect too.

      Also, I go to a website on my smartphone. How do I scan the QR code? With my other smartphone?

      Easy! You snap a photo using your webcam so your computer can authenticate you!

      </sarcasm>

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    6. Re:Scanning random QR codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The QR code is for two reasons, somewhat tied to the origin of the idea.
      1) you can use your phone (or trusted device) to authenticate on a different device. Avoids all form of keylogging or recordings just as a one-time-password approach would.
      2) currently phones have better security for the average user in terms of requiring signed software and sandboxing than the desktop OSs. They are less likely to be compromised by malware.

      The complaint about "random QR codes" is silly in that any *good* software always shows the url before bouncing the user to it. This is part of the client specification of behavior for this. You just have to look the samsung factory reset a while back to see how having apps auto-open urls via QR or NFC is fundamentally flawed and should be abandoned by every scanner implementation.

    7. Re:Scanning random QR codes by someoneOtherThanMe · · Score: 1

      You use a mirror or, in case of back-only camera, two mirrors.

    8. Re:Scanning random QR codes by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      So you go to a website and it displays a QR code it wants you to scan. Who knows where that QR code could redirect too.

      Exactly! That's why the authentication app on your phone (which is currently being developed) will DISPLAY the proposed URL, and ask you to confirm "Is this where you were trying to log into?". It always confounds me how QR codes are everywhere.... On cereal boxes, posters, in movie trailers, etc... and the people who place them there expect users to just blindly take a photo of them and go to the web site indicated by the code. Haven't people been burned enough by goatse?

  6. What problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which problem is this supposed to be solving? All my traditional logins work just fine. If they didn't then I wouldn't be using them.

    1. Re:What problem? by Seumas · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that, among other things, the intention is to address man-in-the-middle compromises, but I'm not certain how that is actually guaranteed here. (Then again, I am not even remotely a security expert).

    2. Re:What problem? by SScorpio · · Score: 2

      One of the main things it's supposed to address is to allow secure login from a public computer. A computer could have a software or hardware key logger, but since the authentication is handled by the phone you control it doesn't matter.

      It also has a unique ID that's based on a hash of the site you are authenticating with, so accounts at different sites can't be tied together unless you give the site something like an alias or your email address.

      This does raise the problem in that it makes your phone the keys to the kingdom, but having something like this for throw away accounts for posting on a forum wouldn't be bad. It would be like OpenID, I wouldn't use it for something like my banking account which I wouldn't access from a public computer anyways. But it addresses the issue that people generally use one email address and one password to access every site they go to.

    3. Re:What problem? by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of the main things it's supposed to address is to allow secure login from a public computer.

      Unfortunately, that entire concept is flawed for at least two blindingly obvious reasons:

      • This does not solve the man-in-the-middle attack where untrusted endpoint devices are concerned, because that problem is a fundamentally unsolvable problem. If you cannot trust both endpoints, no secure connection is possible. This is a fundamental tenet of computer security.

        In particular, if you can't trust the endpoint, you can't trust anything that the endpoint presents to you. Unless this scheme literally requires you to point your phone at the screen and authenticate every single action, there's nothing stopping someone from tweaking the content on its way to the untrusted screen so that the logout button doesn't actually log you out, but instead merely shows a fake logout screen. Then, the person who owns that untrusted computer has access to your account.

        And even if you try to patch around that with a QR code that deauthorizes the computer, there's nothing stopping someone from automatically transferring money to a bank in the Cayman Islands right before it requests that logout code, or whatever. So even in the best case, this does not really add any significant amount of trust to the untrusted device.

      • If your phone can connect to the Internet, why aren't you just using your phone for browsing, and using the computer merely as a larger display and keyboard? By doing this, the login credentials are stored in your phone's keychain, so you aren't typing a password, making that issue moot, and the control disappears when you unplug from the keyboard and screen, making pretty much all other issues almost entirely moot unless you're actually typing or viewing something sensitive.
      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:What problem? by corsec67 · · Score: 1

      More than that, this is also vulerable to a MitM relay kind of attack, similar to a phishing page that looks like the original login page. This is made worse in that a smartphone can't automatically verify that the computer is on the correct domain before authorizing the page displaying the authentication page.

      This results in a similar situation to your 'untrusted terminal' scenario, where the bad guys have a valid login to your account and can do what they want with that session.

      Possibly even let you also use that session so that you don't get suspicious.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    5. Re:What problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, the proposal is for a replacement authentication scheme, not for a scheme that allows for any better security around sessions post-authentication. Presuming a login was followed by an authenticated session persisted via a cookie or some other shared data mechanism, it would still be vulnerable to the full range of session-jacking attacks. But it never claimed otherwise.

      Also, by using a back-channel request to send the signed nonce for authentication, the protocol can allow for comparison of ip addresses between the initial request and the authenticating request. This potentially reduces the possibility of a phishing-style proxy attack where the QR code (or whatever link is presented) is requested initially by the attacker and forwarded through a malicious page.

    6. Re:What problem? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      I don't see a comparison of ip addresses stopping a malicious site from pulling a real QR code and presenting it to the user who then authorizes the session. The fake page would then be logged in as the user and could do whatever it wanted.

      This was the first thing I thought of as I was listening to the initial discussion.

      Using it solely for unimportant account would make it more secure than using Facebook to log into other sites. At least the phisher would only get access as a single session rather than potentially tricking a user to giving them their Facebook login which they could then do more with.

    7. Re:What problem? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      I think there's another even more obvious reason why it's a dumb idea - namely that it confuses data with the presentation of that data. QR codes are just data. You could transmit that data as a hex string, as a base-64 string, or even as raw bytes, it's just data. The fact that he's even named the protocol after what is just a completely arbitrary way of encoding data implies that he's way too obsessed about the irrelevant thing.

      Different, but similar, anecdote: We had a course on the telecoms network infrastructure once at a job way back. Right at the start, the instructor asked us "what kinds of things do you think you might want to transmit over a network?". One smartarse immediately said "data". Alas the dozy idiot (instructor) then kept pressing us for examples of "data". I think I followed up with "arbitrary binary data", but he still didn't get the hint. Data's just data, stop trying to wrap it up and pretend it's something else.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    8. Re: What problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't prevent the public computer from doing malicious stuff as you, but it does prevent it from learning your username and password. That is valuable in my opinion.

    9. Re: What problem? by Helix_Sky · · Score: 1

      Nobody said that this is a perfect system. Only that it is a better system. Do you refuse to lock your car door because anyone could just break the window. Security isn't about absolutes. It is about increasingly making it more difficult for an attacker to compromise you.

      This system is simple enough that it could get a mass market uptake. That would vastly increase the security for a large number of people. For simple sites like Slashdot it would eliminate identifiable information stored in their database. As an example of the increased security, NeoGaf a popular gaming site, right now is forcing a password reset due to their system being compromised. If they had been using SQRL then that would be unnecessary.

      This also provides built in onetime password protection. Compared to the current username/password security method this is far and away better, and will be relatively easy to set up.

    10. Re:What problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you have not read the spec. This has already been addressed. It may not be adequately addressed, but it has been addressed.

    11. Re:What problem? by leuk_he · · Score: 1

      The only problem is that Things like OpenID, Google apps login facebook Login do not have a cool sounding login method using a mobile phone a 2 factor authorisation.

    12. Re:What problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you should read the spec before commenting further. The QR code embeds the url for the back channel authentication request, which then comes from whatever device is doing the authenticating (cell phone or browser plugin). So, of course a malicious site can always pull the QR code from an initial request, but there are only two ways the site could complete the attack and get the session:

      1) The malicious site is on the same ip address as the authenticating user.
      2) The authenticating device is on a different ip than the initial requesting device and the user clicks through the warning.

      Case 1 is exceedingly unlikely and, if it is the case, you've got worse problems. Case 2 is likely only when you're authenticating a session from your laptop with your cell phone and the cell is not on the lan with the laptop. In that case, presumably you would click through the warning knowing this.

    13. Re:What problem? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should read the spec: https://www.grc.com/sqrl/phishing.htm

      It says right on the page that an active attack could be mounted if you use a cross device authentication like you'd use in a public computer setting.

      The computer you are accessing the site from it at a phishing site that displays an active QR code to log you into the real site.

      Your cellphone you authenticate with is accessing the Internet via a cellular data connection so the IP of the computer and cellphone would be different.

      Since a cellular-connected, camera-enabled device can be expected to have a different IP than any cross-device computer you're logging into, the SQRL client will usually be configured not to request any same-IP enforcement from the remote web server. In this instance, same-IP policy driven phishing detection countermeasures will not be available so the user will need to be vigilant about the sites being logged into in these cross-device circumstances.

      The IP check would work if authenticating off a single device like a laptop, but it doesn't solve the public computer access problem that Steve Gibson was touting as solved.

  7. That's how I say SQL by Art3x · · Score: 1

    Programmers argue whether the right way to say SQL is S Q L or sequel. A business analyst told me her way, and I thought it fit best: squirrel.

    1. Re:That's how I say SQL by Seumas · · Score: 2

      I've honestly never heard anyone debate this. It's called My ESS CUE ELL and PostgrESS CUE ELL, because SQL is pronounced as each letter. Yes, people sometimes mispronounced it, but that is due to ignorance. The same way we all used to know people just coming to the web for the first time who thought that URLs were pronounced like they were part of the monarchy.

    2. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My girlfriend calls it Squall.

    3. Re:That's how I say SQL by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 5, Funny

      "MySQL" is pronounced "Why aren't you using PostgreSQL?"

      And "noSQL" is pronounced "no".

    4. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pronounce it Esquire-ell.

    5. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's also "squeal".

    6. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The correct way is "squeal!". At least if you're using MS's version.

    7. Re:That's how I say SQL by Forbo · · Score: 1

      So is it "gee-eye-eff", "giff" or "jiff"?

    8. Re:That's how I say SQL by malacandrian · · Score: 1

      Yes, people sometimes mispronounced it, but that is due to ignorance.

      Actually, the technology that became SQL was originally called Sequel, but that was trademarked so they changed to SQL. So the correct answer is /s kju l/, but that's only for legal reasons, and mispronunciations are as likely to be due to knowing more about the technology and its history as less.

    9. Re:That's how I say SQL by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

      "PNG", but pronounced "pong" because it comes with an air of smug.

    10. Re: That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever gone ESS SEE YOU BEE AY diving?

      Sequel is a perfectly cromulent pronunciation.

    11. Re:That's how I say SQL by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      My girlfriend calls it Squall.

      You're saying that's what she said?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked at Microsoft for 13 years and pretty much everyone there pronounced it sequel, and not ESS CUE ELL. Including people working on the SQL team, so I'm not sure that it's necessarily ignorance.

    13. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked at Microsoft for 13 years and pretty much everyone there pronounced it sequel, and not ESS CUE ELL. Including people working on the SQL team, so I'm not sure that it's necessarily ignorance.

      Well, then again...

    14. Re: That's how I say SQL by BluBrick · · Score: 1

      The vowels in "SCUBA" go a long way to making it acceptable as an individual word. There are no vowels in "SQL". Unlike SQL, SCUBA is not commonly encountered in the areas of Information Technology and Computer Science, in which the use of acronyms is commonplace and well accepted. (Cue the story* of the IBM engineer who had to ask his client what was meant by F.A.N. in a maintenance request. Upon being told that fan was a word, not an acronym, the engineer informed the client that the correct term was in fact A.M.D., meaning Air Movement Device.)

      *probably urban legend

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    15. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My girlfriend calls it Squall.

      Excuse me, your what calls it Squall?

      Are you sure you're in the right place?

    16. Re:That's how I say SQL by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      > So is it "gee-eye-eff", "giff" or "jiff"?
      Step one: learn Italian.
      Step two: now "gif" is pronounced "gif".
      This is how it feels to have a sane language.
      You may curl up and cry now.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    17. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that you Alexey?

    18. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now it is. And yes, MySQL is SQL server wannabe (don't mix with M$ SQL Server - nobody wants to be that thing).
      The version we're using at the moment, 5.5, doesn't even support ACID (on InnoDB). Not to mention that it can't execute many types of queries with acceptable performance, or do table clustering with FKs. I can live with it, if the version of the product is 1.x. But in 5.5 it's miserable.

    19. Re:That's how I say SQL by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      My girlfriend calls it Squall.

      I was thinking it should be called that... because, as a language, it blows.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    20. Re:That's how I say SQL by matthewv789 · · Score: 1

      I used to think this, until I learned that the name was originally spelled SEQUEL when it was invented at IBM.

    21. Re:That's how I say SQL by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2

      I'm not a fan of Microsoft, and I hate Windows 8 (like Windows 7). I use Windows 7 and Kubuntu (on virtual box and laptop for programming). I like PostgreSQL over MySQL and Oracle is pretty damned good if you are a rich motherfucker. That said, I think MS SQL Server is perhaps the best product Microsoft makes. It used standards compliant syntax in the mid 90s, supports most if not all SQL standards, works well up to quite large database size, has a ton of good features, well documented, etc. The biggest problem with it is that it only runs on Windows servers... and in my case, it isn't free as in beer. It is a good database system otherwise.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    22. Re: That's how I say SQL by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      I had a teacher named Krwzyk in high school. He informed me that no, it wasn't pronounced 'crotch rot'. In fact it was pronounced Kraw-zik even though there was only a 'sometimes y' for a vowel in there. You don't need vowels to pronounce things as a word or name if it is accepted as a word or name. Sequel is fine and accepted by many people as a valid pronunciation for SQL except for those that may be dogmatic anal retentives. And in that case, go see a shrink, you have issues. Not saying you are, just in general.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    23. Re:That's how I say SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      check its father, Sybase

    24. Re:That's how I say SQL by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Used it a bit in the late 90s but not since. It was pretty decent. I was just thinking, I don't hear people talk about DB2 very much lately.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    25. Re:That's how I say SQL by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      There's no 'R' in 'SQL'...wouldn't it make more sense to pronounce it 'squeal'? And I believe there is a Squirrel SQL client out there somewhere.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    26. Re:That's how I say SQL by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      I've always pronounced it Post-Grey-Sequel

    27. Re:That's how I say SQL by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      SQL is an acronym for IBM Structured Query Language. As such it should be spoken as the three letters. The salesmen did not start using other names until much later, for specific products.

      But, people often substitute words for acronyms, because they are easier to say. I don't think three letters is bad, but call it what you want.

      Just make sure you are using the term that your audiance will understand...

    28. Re: That's how I say SQL by BluBrick · · Score: 1

      About Mr. Krwzyk - That's about pronunciation of words in another language. What's your point? I knew a Chinese guy whose name could not even be correctly written in English, but there are accepted conventions (dogma, if you will) on how to write, in English, the phonetic representation of such names.

      It's been my experience that people in the IT world are very comfortable with the use of abbreviations and acronyms and rarely "wordify" the unpronounceable ones to make them pronounceable (EBCDIC qualifies, but only just). The naturally pronounceable ones, on the other hand usually are pronounced (NAT, FIDO, IMAP, BIOS). While sequel is an acceptable, if unnecessary, pronunciation of SQL, I have found it rare except in the specific case of users of Microsoft SQL server, where it seems to be the rule rather than the exception. But it doesn't actually bother me as I am not a dogmatic anal retentive. And I'm fine with that. My shrink's got enough to deal with as it is.

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    29. Re: That's how I say SQL by Tassach · · Score: 1

      While sequel is an acceptable, if unnecessary, pronunciation of SQL, I have found it rare except in the specific case of users of Microsoft SQL server, where it seems to be the rule rather than the exception

      I worked as a DBA for over a decade and never once met a DBA who pronounced it as anything but "sequel".

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  8. I trust every website with my phone number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I trust every website with my phone number. Why? Because I can't log in otherwise!

    There are many sites which I appreciate have authentication but that I do not even begin to trust. They get a crappy password. I do not have burners phones for every website.

    1. Re:I trust every website with my phone number by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Try 555-1212.

      OTOH, I rarely give my phone #, even if they ask. If they won't take a fictitious one, and don't allow you to skip it, then I just don't go there.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  9. QR code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While QR codes themselves are clear, my understanding was that the term "QR code" is trademarked in several countries.

  10. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
  11. I love standards! by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

    There are so many to choose from.

    In this case, the proposer seems to be under the impression that a desktop, laptop, or tablet is more likely to be compromised than a smartphone.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:I love standards! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the authentication app can run on any device. If the user wants to install the SQRL application on their desktop, laptop, or tablet that they browse on, they are free to do so. The QR code part is just to make it easy to have a single device (your smartphone) that runs a single instance of the SQRL authentication app (and therefore you don't have to worry about sync'ing your private key among all of the devices you browse the web on).

  12. Occam's razor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This goes way above and beyond that..

    Doubt anyone will ever give a shit about it because of all the special stuff that needs to be in place just to get access.

    I'll stick with username/password.

  13. SSL client certificate authentication by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    Isn't this exactly what happens during SSL client certificate authentication? Modulo routing the response through a smartphone, that is.

    1. Re:SSL client certificate authentication by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Basically, yes, but client certs change. Gibson wants to keep a static cert -- Or effectively: use HMAC( clientID , domain ) to generate a cert, so one client secret is kept safe, and used to generate a different cert for use with each domain, in such a way that you can re-generate the cert for any domain.

      The system falls down on two points: It's essentially the same as existing tech: SSH keys, or password protected PGP keys. IE, the single point of failure is the same; And the authentication is cued via insecure link. In other words, See also: SSL Strip.

      I've looked at all these fancy (read: retarding) authentication protocols. They're all equally moronic when applied to the web because the authentication is not built in to the browsers and servers -- That's all we need, no fancy bullshit security theater.

      Here, Let me lay in out for you: MITM just replaces the QR code with their own, authenticates with the client, and plays the role of the client to the server. Now, if the client has previously registered with the server then the MITM attack will be detected because they don't have the client's secret key, very true. However, if they were in the middle from the very beginning -- During the first user authentication, then they can successfully MITM it and all future sessions. Game over.

      Compare this with a DAMN DEAD SIMPLE symmetric stream cipher and pre-shared key. User says: I'm $USER, and server sends a nonce, they both hash the nonce with the share secret (passphrase) and use that output to key the symmetric stream cipher. No MITM can attack the pre-shared key because they don't have the shared secret key. Ah, but how do new users get created? IE, How do you share that first key? Well, there's the Diffie Hellman Fancy obfuscation which merely moves the pre-sharedness to the Diffie helman keys. Seriously, it provides secrecy, but not identity verification, so the MITM can attack it via aforementioned initial secret interception. So, we created the public key cert chain system to provide authentication, but we fucked up and the hong-kong post office can create valid certs for google.com without Google's permission, and Verisign can be compelled by their government to generate certs too. That means the shared secret you must have is then which cert is the valid server cert. See? It's pointless. You MUST have a pre-shared key between the endpoints. All the other non-sense is just obfuscation around this basic premise. 90% of the security field are MORONS who don't grok this.

      So we've just shifted around the FACT that you must FIRST share a secret key. The same goes for Gibson's protocol. It's no different than ANY OTHER.

      Now, you DO NOT want a page to be displayed with a damn login form OR QR CODE. That's all sorts of dumb. See: SSL strip flavor attacks. What you want is the browser, BEFORE IT EVEN ATTEMPTS TO ESTABLISH A SECURE LINK, to pop up a "Username: [____] Password: [____]" box. You enter your username and password NOT ON A WEB PAGE, but the browser's UI. This is one thing that Gibson addresses by moving the authentication to a browser plugin or smart phone... If you've got it setup then it will be more convenient than entering a password for every site, but no more so than any other password generation program. ( In fact, I do just that: My passwords are HMAC( masterPW, domain + salt ); I change the salt to change all my passwords -- if I generated the user name via different salt too then I'd have the equivalent of Gibson's BS SQRL protocol.) Here's a link to an old version that doesn't do HMAC, but it fits in a bookmarklette.

      So, it's more convenient but no more secure than what we already have. In fact: HTTP Auth already has the capability to use HMAC + Nonce to prove both parties have the same shared secret key: HMAC( sharedKey, nonce ) = proof of having the key. You visit a page, the server gives a

    2. Re:SSL client certificate authentication by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Client certificates shouldn't change, at least not until they expire. And for authentication the site should be issuing the certificate so they can control expiration. But yes, there's supposed to be support for all this. I think the primary blame is Internet Explorer: it wouldn't support anything but Basic authentication and Windows-specific methods, and it wouldn't work correctly with any unsupported methods unless Basic was the first method. Meanwhile other browsers followed the spec and used the first (most-preferred) method that they supported, so if you wanted to support IE you forced every other browser to use nothing better than Basic (and you had to support IE). So everyone lost track of all those authentication methods other than Basic. Bleh.

    3. Re:SSL client certificate authentication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Web site your public key.

      It the same every time, from the first time. That's all they get,

      Done,

    4. Re: SSL client certificate authentication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People joor offer provisional trust to sites all the time.
      I wonder how many people went to slashdot to exchange their initial shared secret?

      I also wonder can the attacker intercept the client logging in consistently from multiple locations with this system without failures?
      If i log in at starbucks won't I look like a new user if the intercept fails?

  14. Soon to be enabled by Teun · · Score: 2

    I assume this will be enabled between Friday October 18, 8 pm to Saturday October 19, 1 am (Eastern Time).

    --
    "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  15. Wow. by bennomatic · · Score: 3, Funny

    You had me at "QR code".

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
  16. Google Auth beat you to it by xiando · · Score: 1

    If you want secure / two-factor today then you'll use Google Authenticator - which is what all bitcoin exchanges use. It's the standard. We don't need a new one. And it's open, so you don't need a smartphone, you can use a PC version like JAuth. This QR code thing is less smart as it would need you to actually have a smartphone - and that's a very dumb idea. The Google Authenticator standard does not, but you should use a another device (notebook computer, tablet, phone, whatever) for it since that's more secure. Anyway, this story is a yawn but that and censorship is what I've come to expect from Slashdot these days.

  17. I don't have a smartphone, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you insensitive clod!

  18. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by moteyalpha · · Score: 4, Informative

    I invite everyone to let Google autocomplete that sentence. It's been well-known for a good while that absolutely no-one should pay any attention to him.

    Just for giggles I did test auto complete on that and it gave:
    1. steve gibson is a fake
    2. steve gibson is a moron
    3. steve gibson is a idiot
    Could that be considered the -opinion- of the Google algorithm?
    My opinion about TFS involves squirrels too. But mainly their primary food source ( pronounced 'nuts').

  19. I hoped against hope... by gr4nf · · Score: 1

    ...as I read the acronym that the QR in it had nothing to do with QR codes. Oh well.

  20. yes but, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google is ran by the CIA and NSA with front men simply being used as puppets to push a totalitarian agenda.

    I laugh at anyone who trusts Google with their data, or authentication. Google is a corporation. How the fuck did you deduce that Google was the entity to trust for your most sensitive details? Was it the "don't be evil" catchphrase created 10 years ago that sold you?

    Yes this guy is made a hugely retarded authentication scheme, but trusting Google with you authentication is just as hugely retarded, if not more retarded, judging from the recent NSA revelations.

    Meanwhile, those that actually give a fuck about "security" host their own authentication. Trusting one of the biggest corporations in the world is not "security"

  21. How to keep an idiot busy for hours by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://xkcd.com/1237/

  22. Secure with NSA backdoor by neghvar1 · · Score: 1

    and I'm sure NSA is forcing them to implement a backdoor or else the NSA will shut them down.

  23. Any better than SSL client certs? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

    They already exist and are supported, doing pretty much the same thing on a secondary device does little to improve things.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
    1. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      The point is to allow access to a site from a public computer that may be compromised without needing to enter your credentials on the site.

    2. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      The point is to allow access to a site from a public computer that may be compromised without needing to enter your credentials on the site.

      What would the point in this exercise be other than inviting yourself to get totally fucked over?

      Lets say for example the site in question is a webmail account. Very common. After I have logged on using squirrels from a possessed computer I don't trust with my password (So there!) the computer forwards all of my messages to the New York times, tells all of my contacts I am sexually attracted to squirrels and changes my password all while a I am sitting clueless waiting for the "slow computer" to just show me my inbox. Mission accomplished.

    3. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2

      Lets think a USB hardware token? The private key never leaves the device that has a dell defined api and is built from the ground up for security. But this does not help (nor would the SQRL bits) the compromised box from hijacking the session.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    4. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Yah! I'm authenticated on a public computer that may be compromised! Now the compromised machine can act as me! You're a moron.

    5. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to let Dell define you're api?

      Seriously, though... Call me paranoid, but I think plugging any of my USB devices into the PC equivalent of a Korean War-era B-girl is even *less* desirable to putting my username/password into one.

    6. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Typo well not dell. Your ok with putting you username/pass into something but not connecting a heavily secured computer on a usb stick?

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    7. Re:Any better than SSL client certs? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      No, that was my point. If I don't want to put my User/pass into it (if I did, I wouldn't be using this thing anyway), I sure as hell don't want to plug a device into it.

  24. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by cdrudge · · Score: 0

    1. steve gibson is a fake
    2. steve gibson is a moron
    3. steve gibson is a idiot

    Why can't be be 1, 2, AND 3?

  25. No, 2 smartphones required to browse. by Chemisor · · Score: 2

    Actually, two smartphones required to browse. One to navigate to the website, the other to take the picture of the QR code on the first one's screen. Oh, and you'll probably need a third hand to type in the password that is computed on the second phone into the password box displayed on the first phone.

  26. Nonce! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the U.K., the word 'nonce' has a totally different meaning...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonce_%28slang%29

  27. I have a better idea by WaffleMonster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The endless parade of cheap hacks needs to stop. Anything less than strong bindings between session encryption and authentication is short changing everyone.

    Get browser vendors to apply the TLS-SRP patches sitting in their ticket systems.

    1. Re:I have a better idea by xyourfacekillerx · · Score: 1

      EOT right here everyone. Solutions already exist, these novel approaches are unnecessary.

    2. Re:I have a better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1, 2, 3, 4, 5.... :)

    3. Re:I have a better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VeriSign won't be happy about that :(

    4. Re:I have a better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great. Except how many accounts are compromised via MITM vs. SQL injection spitting out password tables with poorly or unhashed passwords. My bet is that the latter is a much bigger problem and it's what this type of scheme tries to address. You can beef up TLS until the end of time, it's not gonna start inspiring site owners to get a clue on how to safely store passwords.

    5. Re:I have a better idea by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      SQRL doesn't present a password to any site. It provides an answer to a crypto challenge that can only be answered by the user stored password. No rainbow table is gonna get that. Rainbow tables don't contain all the numbers in the universe.

    6. Re:I have a better idea by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      This methodology requires no patches. No vendor co-operation. Just a little crypto challenge. No more worrying about third parties or passwords. Session encryption is useless if they've already logged your keystrokes, or the ISP gave your keys away or provided their SSL certs to the government. Encryption is necessary, but the problem is passwords, always the passwords.

      And it is an expensive hack, thanks you. Lots of time being spent on it.

  28. Re: Yes, I know Google is evil by xiando · · Score: 1

    > I laugh at anyone who trusts Google with their data, or authentication.

    Yes, I know Google is pure evil. Google Auth is based on an open standard & it is open source. As I wrote in parent post: This means that there is a whole range of implementations available. I use the Google Auth standard for auth at various Bitcoin exchanges but I do not use any Google software to do it, I use other implementations. You can use Google Auth without trusting Google with jack shit. (and yeah, I know they are evil, I've removed all the Google spyware / crapware from my phone, I don't have their appstore, etc)

  29. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steve Gibson is a "knob-gobbler"

    That's the sesame street word of the day kids!

  30. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Those are only the first three. The missing items up to #10:

    4. Steve Gibson is a fake, a moron, and an idiot
    5. Steve Gibson is all of the above
    6. Steve Gibson is all of the above and the below
    7. Steve Gibson is all of the below
    8. Steve Gibson is desperate for any kind of publicity
    9. Steve Gibson is kinda cute actually
    10. Steve Gibson is unaware of the location of his towel

  31. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by weedenbc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Steve has a lot of hate coming from the traditional hacker community, some of it for good reasons. He got started in all this trying to defend himself from some attacks, and definitely made some noob mistakes. In particular, he made the mistake of lumping in penetration testers (white hats) with criminal hackers (black hats). That generated a lot of hate from the pen tester community and many labled him a fraud and never looked back. His biggest offense seems to be that he is not of, and does not participate in, the traditional hacker/pen tester community. I think it is very telling that none of his detractors are actually point out problems in his proposal for SQRL. They are relying entirely on "we all know Steve Gibson is a fraud" arguments.

    --

    "Trying is only the first step towards failure." - Homer
  32. Browsing on a computer that's not your own by tepples · · Score: 2

    As I understand it, it's intended in part for the use case where you browse on a computer that's not your own, such as at a relative's home or a public library. This means you haven't stored a client certificate on this computer. The authenticator app on your smartphone would store its own equivalent of a client certificate.

    1. Re:Browsing on a computer that's not your own by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      An this is better than a USB security device (hell even a phone app and cable)? When you pull out the USB you can no longer many any new connections. SQRL revocation?

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    2. Re:Browsing on a computer that's not your own by tepples · · Score: 2

      An this is better than a USB security device (hell even a phone app and cable)?

      It works even when USB sockets are full of epoxy, as is apparently true of a lot of public computers, or on devices such as the iPad that don't really have a general-purpose USB host.

      SQRL revocation?

      Apparently the SQRL authenticator app gives each site a different user ID number, and the user can revoke an ID number within the app.

  33. No smartphones for me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No overpriced smartphones with overpriced and over limited data plans.

  34. Re: Yes, I know Google is evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google Auth is based on an open standard & it is open source.

    To be more specific, Google Auth (source code is here: http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/) is based on RFCs 4226 ("HOTP: An HMAC-Based One-Time Password Algorithm") and 6238 ("TOTP: Time-Based One-Time Password Algorithm").

  35. Google already dunnit by tepples · · Score: 2

    Even if Mr. Gibson did seek a patent, Google has prior art.

    1. Re:Google already dunnit by radarskiy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am *shocked* by the thought that Steve Gibson would claim something as an innovative and original idea that turns out to be old and tired. Shocked, I tell you! Surely this has never happened before... (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/25/steve_gibson_invents_broken_syncookies/)

    2. Re:Google already dunnit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of misleading claims, that article summary mis-represents what is actually going on in that case.
      All that Google "prior art" does is transfer the browsing session to the phone, instead of the computer, and then only if you do the standard login process (username & password, if you aren't already signed in) in the phone's browser. It does nothing to help you log in securely on the computer itself.

    3. Re:Google already dunnit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a new idea? Pior art from Google?
      Guess what? He can't even explain the "idea" properly...
      http://cracs.fc.up.pt/sites/default/files/c2012_aaugusto_ifipsec.pdf

    4. Re:Google already dunnit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you listen to the last few Security now podcast he addresses many of the concerns brought up here, including your link to prior art. It is not the same thing he is doing, the only similarity is that he is using a QR code and it is a way to authenticate, but the QR code is not the method of authentication just a way to scan a URL. Take a look at this page concening prior art https://www.grc.com/sqrl/other.htm.
       

  36. Forced to post as AC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...my damn cellphone died, couldn't log in.

  37. Kiosks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't expect kiosks to have the software/browser extension installed to understand the sqrl: protocol, whereas your phone can still snap a picture of it and as far as the kiosk knows you were just magically signed in without leaving the slightest trace.

  38. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  39. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Way to invalidate the concept. Ad hominem attack. Clever.

  40. That's the same image Gibson uses on his page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I'll add the context back in:

    Three Ways to Go . . . smartphone optional:
    (And we solve the XKCD problem above!) Although the original inspiration for the development of this system was a smartphone scanning a QR code on a website's login page, a small addition to that model enables two more significant modes of operation: Simply make the QR code image also a clickable link to the same URL that's encoded into the QR code.

    It's not called SclickL because it still let's you take a snapshot of the QR code on a public computer/kiosk so the computer that has no sqrl: protocol handler installed gets nothing.

  41. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For real ? Look at the title of your post

  42. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10. Steve Gibson is unaware of the location of his towel

    Clearly not a man to be reckoned with.

  43. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is less bile and more matter-of-fact: http://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/steve_gibson/

    The man just does not have the mental fortitude to work in his chosen field. He gets by because his actual talent is in marketing.

  44. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For real ? Look at the title of your post

    For real, look at where I did acknowledge it's discussed in this single thread. That's still a long shot from

    none of his detractors are actually point out problems[.] They are relying entirely on "we all know Steve Gibson is a fraud" arguments.

    Plenty of threads, that is all but this one, do point out problems and do not mention Gibson being a fraud at all. And I'm only rephrasing this as I've stated it before. What do you not understand about it?

  45. MS sequel, My S-Q-L , officially S-Q-L, Chamberlai by raymorris · · Score: 2

    The MySQL team says S-Q-L, and I believe their web page says that's how their name is pronounced. The official SQL standard says it's s-q-l.

    On the other hand, it seems to me that Windows admins tend to say sequel. The primary author of the language, Chamberlain, says sequel.

    Putting all that together, neither is really right or wrong. When talking about Microsoft's rdms to Microsoft-based listeners, sequel will elicit the fewest snickers. In the FOSS community, say My s-q-l. S-Q-L is the standard data manipulation language, sequel is some Microsoft crap, the OSS folks will say.

  46. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, I'd be all-righteously on your side right now, but just, like, read the links. There's an abundance of material that shows he has no idea what he's talking about or, worse, has a crudely-formed idea that he peddles as ultimate wisdom. I'd agree it's strictly possible he blindly picked a corn with the idea as described in this article, but it's unlikely given his track record and the idea certainly should not be given any additional credence just because it's his. This story would not be here on Slashdot if it wasn't proposed by someone with a name. The entire intention behind debunking Gibson is to eradicate undue pre-trust in his name and instead have the proposal examined as if some random hobo had suggested it. Someone, i.e., like Steve Gibson.

  47. QR codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What idiot would scan a QR code? The same idiots that blindly follow links. This will not end well.

    1. Re:QR codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well then, hover your mouse over the QR code itself and see what web page it points to. It seems like everyone is completely oblivious to the fact that the QR code also doubles as a fucking link, which theoretically you could click to run an out-of-browser SQRL application to replace the one on your phone. You do not, I repeat, do not need a smartphone with camera and a fancy app. On the other hand, authenticating on a different system (phone) with different Internet connection would probably be more safe than doing it all on one machine, unless you are on your own machine and know it is not compromised.

    2. Re:QR codes by sl149q · · Score: 1

      Since its a login app and not a browser.... the only thing it can do is display what site it thinks you are trying to authenticate to and then authenticate you to it if you say to continue. And all that does is allow the existing session (on the possibly different system) browser connect without requiring further authentication.

      MIM and Phishing attacks might be possible, but no more probable or possible than existing login's. And with this system the MIM or Phisher doesn't gain any additional information about you. Just a unique login that can only be reproduced by you if you visit again.

      The primary attraction is that is two-party authentication and not three-party.

      It also may be more convenient if widely deployed and there are some friendly user agents. You simply won't have to remember separate login and passwords for all those random small web sites that want you to create an account before you can interact with them (to download a file, leave a comment, verify a mailing address, get documentation, etc etc etc.)

      Probably not for use when connecting to those two or three places that actually need really secure and private authentication (PayPal and your Bank and .. hmmm that might be it.)

      Will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere.

    3. Re:QR codes by leuk_he · · Score: 1

      Beside that only machine readable QR code, you would need need some thrustworthy cute loggking squirrrel logo. (steve failed to provide one leaving that one to the implementor) .

      thinking about it :

      Using squirrel? Are you nuts?

  48. It was SEQUEL first by raftpeople · · Score: 1

    Yes, people sometimes mispronounced it, but that is due to ignorance

    Actually, the ignorance is people that aren't aware that it was originally called SEQUEL and then renamed to SQL. There have been various products over the years on various platforms with the SEQUEL name (80's and early 90's). The pronunciation has been both ways, although as time goes on there are many people like yourself that just aren't aware of the history and other pronunciation and so it continues to fade.

    1. Re:It was SEQUEL first by Seumas · · Score: 1

      You have adequately explained why old fogies may still often refer to it as "sequel", but it doesn't change the fact that SEQUEL is an acronym and SQL is an initialism.

    2. Re:It was SEQUEL first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when Microsoft developers post videos, where they talk about "Microsoft Sequel Server", they are just bashing Microsoft the same way as when I'm talking about the recent release of DOS 8.1.

      Got it.

  49. Fuck you, NaySAyers by danielnashnz · · Score: 1

    SG is the real deal - he's been around forever, he's been an outsider forever (i.e. since the internet was conceived, and information was free), he knows the limitations of the "security" measures out there and he can call BS on anything in my book - his proposal stands up to scrutiny, despite whoever he's pissed off in the past. Onward the SQRL!

    1. Re:Fuck you, NaySAyers by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

      I believe the truth about Gibson lies somewhere between that, and his naysayers.

      I don't think he's an idiot myself. I believe he has a very large ego and he doesn't like to listen to other people's ideas or criticism. He's a lone wolf and well, the internet and computers in general are just too complex for just one person to tackle, but he thinks he can, which is his ultimate failing.

      It's too bad he's gotten himself such a bad rep and seems incapable of working with the community surrounding the topics he's interested in. He's not a dumb guy, just a bit too full of himself.

    2. Re:Fuck you, NaySAyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is he is consulting experts and anyone in the public interested.
      I don't know where the hate comes from but as is typical of hate it doesn't normally follow with a rational explanation.
      He's just suggesting what he thinks will work.
      My primary interest in this is I want a simple login and I hate facebook login so just as I'm willing to use my cell phone to verify logging into world of warcraft I'd be willing to use it to log into other services.

    3. Re:Fuck you, NaySAyers by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      The fallacy of the golden mean. The truth doesn't always lie between two extremes. He can be, and has proven to be, careful in his self-education and execution over decades. He nailed Microsoft on open sockets - *yes - he -did* - and figured out Prism as a pipe-tap rather than as a cooperative venture while everyone else was screaming and running in circles, accusing everyone of collaboration (not that there isn't, of course). I've listened to him for years. I've never known anyone so careful of his reasoning, so open to arguments, and ready to admit he is wrong and adapt to new facts. He has a podcast that provides him with excellent feedback, so facts are checked and errors corrected on the next podcast. He's polite, accomplished, and well-liked by people who listen to his show. He's a successful IT professional with good products. He's been a tireless advocate of privacy and freedom and has worked to try to find solutions to now proven security canyons. And his SQRL is no longer his baby - he gave it away for free, as in beer and speech, all open-sourced, and all the problems people have thought of are now being hammered on by people in the GRC discussion group as well as anywhere else that cares to try. If there's a hole, they'll address it. He's not the sole programmer or developer of SQRL. It's out there for anyone to work on, and soon will be a web standard. It helps to read his posts, or listen to his podcast, and not listen to "people" yakking on the internet about him. I can understand character assassination and how it is forever on the internet, but it doesn't mean that intelligent people have to bow to it. Look at what's really there, not at what people say.

  50. This Is The Auth Schema I've Been Waiting For! by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

    So you need to have your phone present and with a connection to login?
    And it's basically just OAuth with an added device dependency?

    FINALLY! As a SADO-MASOCHISTIC Web Developer, I've been pining for an authentication schema that is as equally painful to use as it is to implement that provides no real added benefit over what we currently have!

    Ohhh Steve Gibson -- you are a fucking genius!

    1. Re:This Is The Auth Schema I've Been Waiting For! by CFD339 · · Score: 1

      What, SAML wasn't a big enough pain in the ass for you?

      --
      The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
    2. Re:This Is The Auth Schema I've Been Waiting For! by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      No. Read. Read.

  51. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by TheResilientFarter · · Score: 1

    Then dispute it with logic and reason. Using a logical fallacy to attack a claim adds weight to the claim.

  52. Re: Yes, I know Google is evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True it is a standard, but that won't stop the America-haters from foaming at the mouth. They hate the Internet because it was created by the US. They open source because American dominate open source. They hate /. because it is American, and the best contributors are all American. Being a standard will not change their mind. They hate us, and they will keep ranting here to try to ruin this site.

  53. Not foolproof by mysidia · · Score: 1

    The Smartphone sends the matching public key to identify the user, and the signature to authenticate it. It may be used alongside of traditional username/password to ease adoption."

    Attack method: the attacker presents to the user a fake website, proxying the real QR login image.

    The real user, goes through the signature shenanigans, causing the attacker's browser session to be authenticated, when the user types in the password and hits OK.

    The attacker leverages a man-in-the-browser attack to execute undesirable sequences of actions for the user to execute, such as sending a payment they didn't intend, etc.... all by presenting fake questions, and persuading the user they need to scan more QR codes.

    Also, some of the QR codes could launch malicious URLs that cause the smart phone to be compromised, or cause the digital signatures behind the crypto scheme to be transmitted to the attacker.

    1. Re: Not foolproof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They addressed this in the most recent podcast. If the ip address of the initial request and the authenticating request don't match, the user is presented with a warning they must override. This actually makes it somewhat better with regard to phishing/proxy type attacks than traditional user/password.

    2. Re:Not foolproof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the current documentation he makes a note about just this type of attack and how it is defeated, Glad you have been reading
      "The opportunity for strong anti-phishing countermeasures: This is significant enough that it has its own page: “How SQRL Can Thwart Phishing Attacks” (page 4 in the link block at the bottom of this page.) SQRL can be used for “same-device” login, where a desktop, laptop, tablet, or smartphone user wishes to login securely on the same device they are using. (This is different than the “cross-device” login we have been examining where an optical QR code is scanned. “Same-device” login is also discussed below.) In same-device login, the IP address of the SQRL login authentication will be identical to the IP address that received the login page's QR code image. This means that a sophisticated website spoofing/phishing attack, which SQRL already makes much more difficult, will be detectable and easily blocked."

      As far as the mobile phone being pointed at a malicious website/code, that would make it an app dependant attack and not directed at the SQRL documentation. The way it is written the apps are not going to visit but rather encrypt and forward information on behalf the user.

  54. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I dunno who Steve Gibson is...

    But, one big problem I see with this, is likely that you will be giving your fucking phone number to every website you want to log onto using this.

    I'm trying desperately to not give them any identifiable information on who I am, not more!!

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  55. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Informative

    From TFA:
    1. No cell phone required.
    2. No QR code required.
    3. err, no cell phone required
    4. It's stored encrypted by a local password

  56. No security added by SlaveToSoftware · · Score: 1

    I agree, nothing of value added with these icons. Learned that from Security Now, with Steve Gibson.

  57. 200 - no content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >The authenticating web site receives and acknowledges the POST query by returning a standard HTTP “200 OK” with no other content.
    Wouldn't that be a '204 No Content" then?

  58. Sounds like client certificates to me... by Casandro · · Score: 1

    ...but instead of storing the certificate in a moderately secure environment (the browser) it's stored in the least secure environment available to the user, the mobile phone. Not only does it not have any security against remote exploits, securing it physically is also next to impossible.

    1. Re:Sounds like client certificates to me... by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      No. It is stored, encrypted, on the phone, or the computer, or the tablet, or the USB stick, by the user, who is responsible for its security. what "browser storage" means, I do not know. If the master key is encrypted in the usual fashion, only the user has the password necessary to unlock it, just as in Truecrypt's case. It's gotta be somewhere. This way, it doesn't exist anywhere else in the universe but that device (and anything else you can store it, encrypted, as well), so no certificate hijacker, no MITM, no ISP, no website ever has that key but you.

      Not a certificate, but a means of generating session keys that are unique, and theoretically anonymous, by use of that master key. No one in the world can be you. The only drawbacks are MITM, where someone pretends to be a valid site and presents a fake challenge and then lets you in. That's up to you to police. No one else can stop you from entering a phishing site but you. The other is losing your key (!!) by losing your phone or whatever. They've come up with a revolving two-master key system, where you can revoke your master and then switch to a pre-entered (by you) new master. Further developments are open to view,and anyone can challenge or join in. But, do read first.

  59. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Zemran · · Score: 1

    I also think that the system is overreliant on a person having a smart phone. I often go places without one and am seriously considering getting a dumb phone for private use (weekends and evenings). This system would not work for me or the millions of other people that do not want or do not have one. If a system relies on a phone, how is this better than current systems that send me a OTP on any mobile using basic SMS. It is more complex but not more reliable as the weak link is regarding who has your phone.

    --
    I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
  60. From TFA, SQRL does not rely on a smartphone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA, SQRL does not rely on a smartphone. The client can be anything that conceivably understands QR codes, a class in which smartphones are a well-known member.

    And no, camera not required. QR codes are just a format, your laptop can parse it.

    Perhaps the smartphone use case was confusing as a first example, but it does represent a situation where username/password is especially cumbersome.

    1. Re:From TFA, SQRL does not rely on a smartphone. by raynet · · Score: 1

      Also it doesn't even require QR codes, you just need a link on the page with sqrl:// instead of http:/// to launch the authentication app.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
  61. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

    It's a logical fallacy to claim that using a logical fallacy to attack a claim adds weight to the claim. Also, ad hominems like other fallacies can be good arguments -- just not deductively valid in a formal sense. If someone spews 99% nonsense, it's a waste of valuable time to invest hours into providing deductively that their latest spew is also nonsense.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  62. What could possibly go wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah: considering that you so-called smartphone is the most-hacked piece of equipment in your electronic inventory, this sounds like a brilliant idea. Meh.

  63. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TFA explains how that would work with a client on a pc. it's close to the end of the home page of the site.

  64. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by TheResilientFarter · · Score: 1

    I used the wrong word, meant claimant. It is not valid. I don't care who or where the claim comes from, it should be disputed in logic and reason.

  65. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by raynet · · Score: 1

    I guess you didn't read the spec, no identifiable information needs to be sent.

    --
    - Raynet --> .
  66. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by T_Tauri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nope, completely independent of your phone number. Each site you visit effectively has its own user identifier, unique to that site, which is generated from a combination of your master key and the website address. Unless you tell the web site some of your details all the site knows is that you are the same person as every other time you visited. Nothing stopping this being completely anonymous as long as the site does not demand personally identifiable info (eg a retail site would need your name, address and payment details or the login is pointless)

  67. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by chewy_fruit_loop · · Score: 1

    because google auto complete is a good way to find out actual facts.....

    how about just coming up with a reasonable rebuttal to his proposal instead of a "first" flame?

    i couldn't give a flying monkeys what people think of him, he is very over excitable but slamming an idea because of some psychotic hatred you seem to have about a guy you have never met and has done nothing but propose a potentially useful idea is a bit ...well... childish

  68. Similar proposal by thatkid_2002 · · Score: 1

    A few days before I first heard of SQRL (a few weeks ago) I came up with a very similar proposal, which I published on my blog http://ddevnet.net/posts/anonymous-authentication-with-pk.html

    SQRL works around the biggest hassle with my proposal which is linking the browser and the certificate to a session. The QR code idea really streamlines the workflow. My proposal could probably adopt this idea. Where our proposals really differ is that I believe that keeping your keystore anonymous is important. With SQRL they know your keystore location (and can directly attack it, or steal it, or whatever) because of the way it uses the keystore in an out-of-band manner. I also think that when the keystore is identified this is likely to also reveal some clues as to your identity, which sucks balls.

    I also think that the keys could/should be used for encrypting messages/notifications that can be published publicly but only read by the holder of the private key. This avoids email addresses which may leak your identity.

  69. Hello, My Name Is John Smith and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's see. You inform your cellphone/smartphone number in the form, or can be spoofed with any phone out there. Grey or black. While adding data to the usual reservoirs. A joke.

  70. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by leuk_he · · Score: 1

    4.. noob.

    Posting a picture to a xkcd joke without the alt text (nor proper link) is inexcusable.

  71. Idiocy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you don't have a smartphone. What if you're browsing on your smartphone, do you then need a second smartphone to recognize the QR image off the first one?

    This idea is dumb as bricks.

    1. Re:Idiocy by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Idiocy indeed. Learn to read.

  72. When his "detractors" have done 1/2 as much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As Gibson has, THEN, they can talk (as peers, not bullshitters).

    * Consider the source...

    (I've hung around & maintained ongoing debates + conversations with the "security community" & imo AND experience? MOST aren't anywhere NEAR Gibson in skillset OR more importantly, accomplishments... are there any that do? Of course - then again, you don't see many of THAT kind giving him shit either!)

    APK

    P.S.=> World's FULL of "talk a lot but did zero" b.s. artists who see fit to 'cut down others' (who've done far more of good note than they have), but haven't done squat themselves... period! I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't pay much heed to that type (unless they debate an argument in the arena of security with FACTS - not jealousy driven prejudices)

    ... apk

  73. On my phone by bradgoodman · · Score: 1

    So, how do I snap the QR code - if I am logging into the website - on my phone...?

  74. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. No cell phone required.

    I call BS, yes the article has a section "Three Ways to Go ... smartphone optional" which totally invalidates the systems whole reason for being used, securely logging in on a "public", probably compromised computer. Read the section "No keyboard interaction", this usage will *REQUIRE* a smartphone.

    I agree with the original AC, not a very well thought out idea.

  75. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    Ideally, sure.

    In a world where the ravages of entropy are bringing you ever closer to the end of your finite lifespan, you just end up pissing away a whole lot of time.

  76. Not Everyone... by mlauzon · · Score: 1

    Owns a smartphone, so SQRL is completely useless!

    1. Re:Not Everyone... by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Read.

  77. Stupid idea by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

    It may be used alongside of traditional username/password to ease adoption.

    It *should* be used alongside traditional username/password

    I know it might boggle your mind but not everyone has (or wants) a smart phone
    I love my smart phone to bits (sometimes literally) but I know plenty of people who have a cheap ass phone so they can.... make phone calls.
    I also have a friend who leaves his smart phone at home when he goes to work, after having his beloved stolen when he turned around to study some blueprints, now he carry's a cheap ass second (or third) hand nokia - hasn't been stolen in a long while.

    --
    There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    1. Re:Stupid idea by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      A web site can still require any authentication it wants, including userid and password. As the proposal states, if you read it.
      And, again, and again, and AGAIN, you do not need a smartphone. The challenge can be a generated URL.
      Please, help out here, and read the proposal. It's quite clever, and everyone is trying to break it, find the holes. So read those first. Maybe then you can find a new hole, and then someone can get it fixed.

  78. Website Sign-in On Smartphone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm excited about the possibilities of singing into a website on one smartphone while needing a second smartphone to capture and authenticate the QR code.

  79. THIS is for you & "your kind"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4349283&cid=45163547

    "The guy just doesn't understand that his problem is not that he's not smart" - an_of_mr_e (217855) on Friday October 18, 2013 @09:59AM (#45164093)

    You are then? Ok:

    PROVE it!

    (I.E.-> Show us what you've done more of, better of, & earlier than Mr. Gibson has in the art & science of computing then...)

    * After all - a "big talker" like YOU ought to be able to manage that, correct? Not... I'd wager you can't show a single thing whereas he's done decent stuff since "SpinRite" onwards... have you?

    APK

    P.S.=> I truly DO expect a BIG FAT ZERO out of you vs. Mr. Gibson (& yes, I'd strongly wager I am correct regarding a mere "put down artist" like yourself - which ANYONE can do - who I strongly suspect has zero to his name/credit that's done as well in computing as Gibson has, "SpinRite" onwards (as I suspect YOU to be))... apk

    1. Re:THIS is for you & "your kind"... apk by SteveTheNewbie · · Score: 0

      Do you understand what a double negative is?

      not (not smart)

  80. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Uh, that's a more comprehensive analysis of password strength than I've seen anywhere else.

    His "technique" is nothing more than finding a way to make your passwords longer that people can remember. That's the whole point - length matters. Do you have a better way of coming up with a strong password that can be remembered?

  81. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by TheResilientFarter · · Score: 1

    If you discount everything a person says, why are you posting here?

  82. Description of the system so far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been following the development of SQRL and it seems there are misconceptions here. I'll try to explain it in the way I think of it.

    The core of SQRL is really authenticating to a server by proving you have a private key. The server never sees your private key, only your public key, so if the server is hacked, the attacker can't use your SQRL credential to login. You do not need to create and memorize a password for every site.

    There are additional features of SQRL:
    QR Code: This allows you to keep your private key on a separate device. This means you can use a public computer and that computer would not have access to your private key. It could still mess with your current session, but not future sessions. You don't have to use the QR code & separate device, it is optional for more security. It is slightly different from Google's Sesame experiment in that Google's QR code use had you sign in on your phone with your username and password rather than a private key.
    Generated Private Key: SQRL uses a separate private key for each site. The private key for each site is a product of your Master Key, your one password, and the site's 'domain'. To backup your SQRL credentials for every website, you only need to backup the Master Key and remember your one password. You will have a separate key for every website and only need to keep track of one password. You would only need to remember one password.

    There are also discussions about additional phishing counter-measures:
    If you're not using a separate device, the server you authenticate with could send you the logged in session out-of-band. This means that if fakefacebook.com tries to trick you to log in with the SQRL from facebook.com, fakefacebook.com never gets a logged in session.
    There is also a feature to warn if the IP address of the authenticating computer is not the same as the computer that initially requested the logon session.

    There are already ways to have multiple identities per site with the same Master Key and password. Also, the spec will have a built in way to update your public key if you ever have a reason to change your Master Key.

    This does not solve every problem with authentication, but it has benefits over traditional password authentication.

    Zusukar

  83. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure what you're getting at. What has one got to do with the other?

  84. smartphones only webisites, you mean? by whitroth · · Score: 1

    So, you can't tell, or can't log in, unless you own a smartphone (tm)? Quite so, mine citizen. Please show me your citizenship documents on your smartphone... you don't have one? Please accompany this fine officer to the station for violating community standards....

                    mark "fsck smartphones"

    1. Re:smartphones only webisites, you mean? by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      no. as it has been written and said, many, many, many times, you do not need a smartphone.

  85. "Nobody does 'brute forcing'", eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "His argument is based totally on pure brute force, which nobody does." - by man_of_mr_e (217855) on Friday October 18, 2013 @09:59AM (#45164093)

    WRONG: They've been doing it for AGES & still do -> http://www.dshield.org/diary/Low%2C+slow%2C+distributed+SSH+username+brute+forcing/5114

    ( E.G.-> Here's 30++ more just to "start the show" -> http://www.dshield.org/search.html?q=brute+force ranging from 2 months ago, up to 3++ yrs. ago, no less - so much for YOUR b.s.!)

    ---

    PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

    "Koos writes in with some logs of distributed SSH scanning with the following characteristics. Usernames are being brute forced starting at "aaa" and incremented. This is being done in a distributed manner with almost perfect synchronization between the scanning hosts. Over the last 32 hours, his system received 216 login attempts of which 138 attempts were from unique IP addresses. Obviously, the attacker is trying to avoid the popular SSH banning scripts by going under the banning thresholds of these programs. At peak, there was only 20 total attempts per hour."

    ---

    * For BOTH usernames AND password cracking, + more - & that's from 2008 - Want more current examples to go with it? Just ask...

    APK

    P.S.=> Before you "talk out of your ass"again, putting down your betters while you were @ it? Get your facts straight - in fact - brute force gets used when dictionary attacks fail, nearly every time...

    ... apk

    1. Re:"Nobody does 'brute forcing'", eh? by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 0

      You should read your own links moron.

      Usernames are not passwords. They're brute forcing usernames (which tend to have a much smaller keyspace because they usually have limitations on what they can contain, and they are usually case-insensitive) and likely using dictionary attacks for passwords.

      None of your links say otherwise.

  86. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

    How exactly is it a "comprehensive analysis" if it ignores dictionary attack strength?

    How is it "comprehensive" if it ignores the fact that an attack can be crafted specifically for this technique?

    All it discusses is brute force, which is pointless beyond a few characters.

  87. Re:Better look again... apk by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 0

    WTF? Are you really just this stupid? What exactly do captcha's have to do with password brute forcing?

    Nothing, idiot. So STFU.

  88. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by metrix007 · · Score: 0

    The argument here is that the claimant has no credibility and is shown to be far from knowledgeable is his professed field.

    That much has been established, and there is a wealth of evidence in the form of links throughout this discussion.

    Before we waste time investigating his new proposal, it only makes sense to see if it is worth the time, to see if he has improved his education in his area of self-profession.

    Pointing out that someone is not knowledgeable when this has been shown to be the case is a valid argument.

    --
    If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
  89. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steve Gibson is a... (-1, Troll)

    Well played.

  90. Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BREAKING NEWS: New security system involves smartphones!!!

    NO, JUST NO

    1. Re:Oh, really? by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Indeed no. It doesn't.

  91. Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is to solve the problem of memorising username & impossible to remember good passwords... and also to make it impossible for web sites loose your username & password so no one can impersonate you easily, just because they get the database.

    YOU STILL ARE RESPONSIBLE TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE AT THE CORRECT WEB SITE, before clicking or scanning the SQRL code (and even after you click you DO HAVE one last chance to verify you are at the correct web site). And with the anti-phishing enable you can make it even more difficult.

  92. "Eat Your Words" (You FAILED) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell us: How'd they TASTE, chump -> http://www.dshield.org/forums/diary/SSH+Brute+Force/11215

    http://www.dshield.org/forums/diary/SSH+brute+force+password+guessing+AKA+SShellPhishing/5047

    http://www.dshield.org/forums/diary/New+odd+SSH+brute+force+behavior/11956

    http://www.dshield.org/forums/diary/A+Couple+of+SSH+Brute+Force+Compromises/16228

    ---

    "His argument is based totally on pure brute force, which nobody does." - by man_of_mr_e (217855) on Friday October 18, 2013 @09:59AM (#45164093)

    See above (& EAT THOSE WORDS) - They're ALL in my 1st post you REPLIED to's 2nd link - AND - EACH DEALS IN BRUTE FORCING PASSWORDS!

    ---

    "You should read your own links moron."." - by man_of_mr_e (217855) on Friday October 18, 2013 @09:59AM (#45164093)

    Ahem: OTHER WAY AROUND, ILLITERATE MORON (see above), lol... take your OWN shitty advice (while you eat those words, yet again, lmao!).

    ---

    "None of your links say otherwise."." - by man_of_mr_e (217855) on Friday October 18, 2013 @09:59AM (#45164093)

    LMAO - "Guess again": They were in the 2nd link in my original post - It's YOUR FAULT that your ILILITERATE CHUMP SELF missed them, bigmouth!

    (Guess what: YOU Fail... badly!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Now, shut your piehole since it's NOT POLITE TO TALK WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL - & yours CERTAINLY is full... lol - FULL OF YOUR VOMIT YOU HAVE TO EAT NOW lmao - "eating your words"! - You? You should improve your diet (lol), & not even speak - you'd lose weight too since "The Fool Chatters, while the wise man listens"... quit being a fool lmao, or, you'll die of obesity related causes from your 'eating your words' diet, rotflmao - it's turning you into an inflated balloon full of "hot-air" that MUST 1 day, go 'pop', lmao... Today was that day, for you - read more closely next time & face fact: YOU did this, to yourself - "Ya got played - ya played yerself", lol...

    ... apk

  93. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by pantaril · · Score: 1

    But, one big problem I see with this, is likely that you will be giving your fucking phone number to every website you want to log onto using this.

    Why would you do this? SQRL doesn't require you to give your phone number to anyone.

  94. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it isn't.

  95. Re: Steve Gibson is a... by Catbeller · · Score: 1

    He's 57. Ain't a noob. The attacks were like, ten years ago. They're like a bunch of evil ex-girlfriends on Facebook against whom he really needs a restraining order. No one really cares what the "community" thinks, if what you mean by that is the group that has the time and inclination to launch DDOS attacks and spam threads with "Gibson sucks" posts. I don't believe people of that disposition really matter if they're over 15 years old. Nobody even remembers what the hell he did "wrong", and frankly no one outside of that group cares - if anyone is left, as "they" should have been married and worried about male-pattern baldness and being severely overweight by now.

  96. Re:Steve Gibson is a... by Catbeller · · Score: 1

    Oh, seriously, get a life.

  97. A nice idea, but pre-dates Gibson by 2 years by quentinsf · · Score: 1

    This is very similar to the Pico concept that Frank Stajano came up with a couple of years ago - though his is rather more complete than Steve Gibson's.

    You can see Frank's (entertaining) talk from the 2011 Usenix security conference here:

    https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenix-security-11/pico-no-more-passwords

    There's a team at Cambridge University implementing this right now, and, like Gibson, Stajano has always pledged that it will be an open and patent-free standard.