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Scientology's Fraud Conviction Upheld In France
schwit1 writes "France's top appeals court has upheld a fraud conviction and fines totaling hundreds of thousands of euros against the Church of Scientology, for taking advantage of vulnerable followers. France regards Scientology as a cult, not a religion, and had prosecuted individual Scientologists before, but the 2009 trial marked the first time the organization as a whole had been convicted. 'The head of a parliamentary group on religious cults in France, lawmaker Georges Fenech, hailed the ruling. 'Far from being a violation of freedom of religion, as this American organization contends, this decision lifts the veil on the illegal and highly detrimental practices' of the group, said Fenech. The court case followed a complaint by two women, one of whom said she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros in 1998 for Scientology products including an "electrometer" to measure mental energy. A second woman claimed she was forced by her Scientologist employer to undergo testing and enrol in courses, also in 1998. When she refused she was fired.'"
i wonder if there are any high level Scientologists in the NSA?
Scientology is the truth! Both Tom Cruise _and_ John Travolta are scientologists. Do you believe me now?
those cult freaks swarm through the streets here, scuttling between the many local 'church' buildings... used to be that they would station young kids (many teenagers) at local flea markets to offer free massages and 'stress tests' to do recruiting...
lately, that approach has switched to the cult using immigrant and non-English speakers to entice other adherents...
CoS is a sickening, freakish cult that obfuscates real-estate and business ownerships, such as drug-rehab centers...
"one of whom said she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros in 1998 for Scientology products including an "electrometer" to measure mental energy"
she obviously wanted a refund because the meter reading was zero.
To be rid of these silly cults once and for all
But they don't behead unbelievers or crash airliners into buildings. Of course, that's probably why the French feel it's safe to fine Scientology.
"Whenever the cause of the people is entrusted to professors, it is lost." ~ V.I. Lenin
can't be wrong
Proof that freedom of Religion isn't always a good thing...
Damn Frenchies have more sense.
And a few thousand more religions to go.
Why is Snark Required?
20k €? Not that much, considering the sums they manage to snatch off the (albeit more gullible) american cultists.
The difference between a cult and a religion is that in a cult the founder is still alive. Since LRH is definitely dead er, has abandoned his meat body, that puts Scientology pretty much on par with the other groups that believe in sky wizards.
Scientology is a cult, it's entire story is based off a science fiction novel written by man who wanted to make a religion! All of that would be fine but then to charge your members fees to read from books is kind of messed up, that would be like the library charging you based on every book you took out. I don't see how any logical adult can honestly see Scientology as anything but a joke, it's only slightly more a joke then the Mormon based religion, both of which have near 0 evidence for what they take as fact.
is the number of followers...
Nothing about regarding, it is a fact. Scientology IS a cult.
How could anyone possible think otherwise considering what the founder said?
"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
Still a better religion than Islam
4th paragraph:
As if being convicted in a court of law for organised fraud is just an opinion of an unspecified number of critics...
How about this get added in the 2nd paragraph:
but I ran out of money.
Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
The Venn Diagram of Irrational Nonsense
But as I understand, L. Ron was bastard son of Old Mother Hubbard.
He was raised in a shoe.
Considering Scientology is not a religion but a scam to steal money, this is the first step. Next it would be great if the power of real religions could be broken, cause they are just as harmful. Finally people should use some common sense and realize that all that religous fantasy has nothing to do with reality, but that will never happen...
A Dutch oven opens: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/10/scientology_wins_dutch_tax_exe.php
"I have just as much authority as the Pope, but fewer people believe it."
George Carlin
> is the number of followers...
Indeed.
A cult is a religion with few followers.
A religion is a cult with many followers.
I HOPE this is a slippery slope that exposes all religions as cults. Scientology is just one or the more ridiculous and exploitive ones. Any organization that uses unprovable assertions without any reasonable scientific framework to exploit its gullible members should be shut down.
comment not available.
I think that's just shorthand for "we can see what the guy is up to and it's most definitely a scam". That doesn't stop just because the initial perpetrator is dead.
France regards Scientology as a cult, not a religion
A second woman claimed she was forced by her Scientologist employer to undergo testing and enroll in courses, also in 1998. When she refused she was fired.
It shouldn't matter whether it's a cult or a religion; if someone got fired for not undergoing religious courses and testing, that should be treated the same way by the law.
"one of whom said she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros in 1998 for Scientology products including an "electrometer" to measure mental energy"
Is it any different than manipulating christians in to buying magic water at a 99.99% profit margin?
And I should know, I've followed a few.
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
John Lennon...
The Voice of Reason
You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.
There will be no state mandated religion. That is all.
Your acts must still obey the law.
That's an error of use-and-mention.
Does that mean that CoS should not be fined after proven guilty as charged in a court of law because they're jusst a small religion?
No.
Though large religions are getting away with child porn rings, when it is foiund out by the state, it IS prosecuted. Even though they have a shitload of followers.
CoS said "You can't do that, we're a religion". If religion == cult and cult == religion, then France are right to call them a cult and say "Nope, we CAN do that because you're a cult". Since cult == religion == cult.
There are people in the Netherlands, who sink old fishing nets with attached bits to the bottom of the Oosterschelde estuary (it's a natural reserve, so it doesn't bother boats). Then they wait a few year, put on their diving suits, and go looking at those old fishing nets underwater.
You may wonder why people have this as a hobby.
They do it, because they fully expect that the extremely elusive and rare (in NL) Sepia squids have found those fishing nets as a useful habitat, and found a mate in those murky waters, and have begun a family.
In a similar vein, your question seems really stupid and weird.
But I wonder what you get, if you create a habitat for extremely paranoid people, who like to sit in Captain Picard's chair, swim the murky waters of the Internet all day, unobserved by anyone else, give them the opportunity to meet and work with like-minded individuals, and take pride in manufacturing lies targetted for effect in the broader population. What would happen if you left such a habitat abandoned to the ebb & flow of the normal HR process of a large and rich organization for, say, 20 years. What kind of fascinating creatures would come floating to the top of the food chain?
Who knows. You're not allowed to find out. You'll never find out.
What do the french say about Mormonism?
They were killed because the army is told who to kill by those in power and those in power didn't use religion to say that they were RIGHT to be in charge and therefore did not have to share power with them.
Other countries whose leaders use religion to show how they are RIGHT to be in charge do not want to share power with the religion, but cannot remove it without removing their reason for saying you must obey them.
So, no, they were not killed by atheists. You can damn well be certain that many of those doing the shooting were religious. They were told what to do and faced death themselves (or thought that they weren't the TRUE religion, just heretics, and therefore a valid target).
Then again, the Alerginian Heresies were not stamped out because they were the wrong christians, they were stamped out because the christians in power did not want them to remove the power by saying "Hey, you don't have to tithe the Holy Roman Empire any more", moreover those following heard "You don't have to tithe" and thought "Brilliant! I can keep my money!".
HOWEVER, the justification for the killings was religion.
The purges of stalinist russia was not justified by atheism.
The only difference between a cult and religion is a religion has survived the death of its founders and their immediate successors.
Mormon's are considered a religion. If Scientology survives David Miscavage (yea my spelling sucks!), maybe they will be considered a religion.
Can anyone give me an explanation of how the beliefs of Scientology are any less credible than those of Mormons or Catholics for that matter?
Fleecing morons. If I could do it, I probably would.
In the Netherlands, they just have been given a tax exemption, for being a religious non-profit organisation, for the common good.
Another fine example of European politics.
Religion is bad but scientology is even worse.
no more, to say, i have been there, i tested.. and when they tried on me, the use of their electrometer, saying electrometer cost tenth of thousand of euros, hence the price you have to pay for an hour, with such "tool". the word "SCAM" blew up in my mind. Looking at the device, i just noted, i could take a voltmeter for less then 10 bucks, and do the same thing.
They also tried they prostitute like trap, wanted one of their colleague be very friend with me. Happily i was not looking nice enough for her, to do such a thing, and she started to say, she started to be fed up to do it for sci.
The only to take benefits of this, is high ranking people and those like Cruise, and Travolta, whom are used like advertisers, and have hardly ever faced the bad side of sci. Nonetheless to say, everybody like to be treated like kings. The sad thing, is they very much appreciate being treated like that, but don't bother, living conditions of the slaves working for them.
Scientology is a SCAM, plain and simple, and i've been there and tested it, as a french citizen, in the 80's. By the time, i didn't expect that organization to last that long. But been folder robbery and more, to destroy evidence of their fellony, that may explain why it has lasted that much in my country.
france did something right. i guess there's some hope left after all.
I can see how the woman bilked out of money could file a case against the church but how in the hell does the lady who was fired have a case? Shouldn't that be a suit between her and her former employer?
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
between a legitimate religion and a tax shelter? We can't use the old "They interfere in politics" because pastors of all the major churches do all the time...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The first time I drove down Franklin Avenue in Los Angeles and saw the sign in front of their building that says "Church Of Scientology Celebrity Centre International" I was pretty sure this wasn't really a religion.
France has only had it intermitterantly and has not developed a strong culture of tolerance. The drawback of this freedom is you have put up with a fiar number of marginal kooks. Once you start drawing lines, who knows when they'll draw one around you.
Apparently, in France the government has the authority to distinguish between a cult and a religion. The U.S. government (and its states) would be expressly prohibited from having this authority by the 1st amendment to the U.S. constitution. I think the U.S. Constitution is correct in this regard. Government shouldn't have the authority to declare whether any religion is legitimate or not.
In France, the difference between a cult and a religion is whether they preach being open to the rest of society, versus hiding what you're doing from others.
From a society standpoint, this is the only important criteria.
By that definition, CoS is a cult.
... we could prosecute the fraudsters raking in big bucks in America posing as faith healers and mediums.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
The government has complete power over corporations like an OS over apps. Our problem is the root kits and privilege escalation... and our "I.T. people" are morons or corrupt.
Scientology exploits corporate powers AND religious powers together; both which go too far. The government HAD the power to define corporations and all their limitations. A religion which incorporates (non-profit or for-profit) has no special rights; if they want religious freedom, they can have it-- WITHOUT incorporating. Just as they can have schools that teach the world is flat and receive 0 tax dollars.
You can fix the problem without touching religious freedom (unless your religion is corporatism... arguably, a major religion in the USA today.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
"I have just as much authority as the Pope, but fewer people believe it." -- dltaylor
"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it." -- George Carlin
It's not a quote if you paraphrase it.
Now when do we start this with Christianity and Islam?
Mormon's
I'm considered a religion?
Hint: Using unnecessary apostrophes causes you to say things you did not mean to say - and as a bonus, makes you look dumb.
The CoS is concerned with a profit not the Prophet.
that once he was in hospital the psychs would get him.
commit fraud.
all splinter groups, which they label as Squirrel groups, trying to preach Scientologist beliefs from forming and operating. In fact Scientology has gone after these drains on their revenue harder than they have against critics.