Slashdot Mirror
IE 11 Breaks Rendering For Google Products, and Outlook Too
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from The Register: "The Windows 8.1 rollout has hit more hurdles: the new version 11 of Internet Explorer that ships with the operating system does not render Google products well and is also making life difficult for users of Microsoft's own Outlook Web Access webmail product. The latter issue is well known: Microsoft popped out some advice about the fact that only the most basic interface to the webmail tool will work back in July. It seems not every sysadmin got the memo and implemented Redmond's preferred workarounds, but there are only scattered complaints out there, likely because few organisations have bothered implementing Windows 8.1 yet."
Also from the article: "Numerous reports suggest that IE 11 users can once again enjoy access to all things Google if they un-tick the IE 11 option to 'Use Microsoft Compatibility lists.'" And here's Microsoft KB work around.
I guess they were too busy building http://www.hover.ie/ ...
Spent All My Mod Points
I would say that Google web interfaces should not be the standard by which browsers should be evaluated, I've found they work badly in a lot of circumstances. Then again, the Hotmail website does too, so Microsoft is also pretty bad at depending on the quirky characteristics of its favorite browsers. I avoid Google UIs as much as I can, preferring to use alternative interfaces where available, simply because they are so poorly designed. While Google does some good things, the Ui has never been Google's strong suit.
Use IE to download your browser of choice.
Microsoft never cared about making their browser standard compliant, it's not the first time they break everything, forcing everyone else to issue updates to their sites to make them work properly with IE
In fact, Microsoft has done nothing good for PC in a long time now... They seems to want to concentrate on mobile and consoles now.
Come on Microsoft, it is year 2013, 2014 almost. We are not in 2000 anymore, you can't just tell everybody to go screw themselves anymore and act like you are some kind of god. I don't think it is going to work as well as it used to...
http://slashdot.org/story/07/02/03/1524250/confidential-microsoft-emails-posted-online
http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t90205.html
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Firefox as well. Always as I near the bottom of a page but not all the time even same page first noticed it reading reddit.
A quick Google search is only bringing up superficial stuff. Do we know what they broke/changed between IE10 and IE11 that broke google?
It looks like the OWA thing is because exchange is doing UA sniffing and IE 11 no longer sends the MSIE string.
Even GM, Ford and Chrysler woke up after a while and decided to modify the way they do business. Quite late according to some, they virtually went bankrupted before waking up. How long is it going to take for Microsoft to wake up and modify their way to do business?
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
See this article for how the IE11 User Agent string has changed, and how MS has removed a lot of the old non-standard IE ways of doing things.
I'd be happy if the update had left my wife's laptop usable at all. I can't complain about how IE renders sites in 8.1 because we can't get into the machine at all since we tried. I'm off to the Samsung service center tomorrow as there's no way I can find to get the system to boot without voiding the warranty.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Bought a new laptop the other day, it had 8 on it. I thought, why not give it a whirl, haven't touched it since it was in beta. Then the upgrade lands and promises to fix the things I HATED in 8.... but nope, still sucks. Reverted back to 7.
I've wished for a better UI for webmail for years, but I haven't found one yet that meets google webmail yet, FOSS or payware. The same applies to their web search, although duckduck has some nice change features added that google lacks. Unfortunately duckduck's search results are often not good enough so I have to google my query. I'd love to be able to get rid of google, but the fact is that it's hard to get a similar quality service with a similar or better quality UI.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
IE 11 ain't done until Google won't run.
Has a vaguely familiar ring...
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
After the state of IE10, I'm not surprised. I'm locked on IE9 because 10 isn't compatible with any of the webapps I need to access at work, ditto the Cisco SSL VPN software (I don't like browser-based VPNs, but I don't get to pick which VPN the company uses). At this point I can't afford to waste time experimenting with upgrading beyond 9, the compatibility issues are just too great for no perceptible gain (the best they could manage is to render Web pages as acceptably as 9 does, explain to me again why I'm wasting my time fighting to untangle compatibility issues to get back to where I started?).
The Windows 8.1 rollout has hit more hurdles...
... Which affect the 5 people who are actually using Windows 8. The entire interface is an unmitigated disaster. DOSSHELL looked prettier and was more functional than Windows 8. The OS has multiple personality disorder and the interface looks like it was gang-banged by Crayola. Nobody wants to touch it even with a 10 foot pole. :/
Did you notice how this wasn't on the front page of any tech section of any major news site on the internet (Slashdot doesn't count -- it doesn't have a tech section, it is a tech section)? It's because nobody uses it. I mean, look at the market share numbers for Windows 8 currently. Windows XP is stomping it. It only just this month beat out MacOS by a tiny margin. Its month over month growth is stagnant.
This is just another story to add to the growing funeral pyre we're building to honor monkey boy's first major OS released without any input or direction from former CEO Bill Gates. In a few years, I'll be opening specially marked boxes of cereal and finding copies of Windows 8 in it... just like they used to distribute AOL disks in the days of old. Actually... now that I think about it... that may have been where the Metro interface's inspiration came from. Sweet mother of god....
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
It really doesn't matter if IE does or doesn't render anything, as using it exposes one to the gaping security-hole-of-the-day. I'm not talking about the ones that make it to slashdot or even full-disclosure; I'm talking about the ones that show up on blackhat sites with pricetags attached. I'd call it a "parade", but it's more like an angry mob rushing through the streets: it's constant and pervasive.
Second, the Outlook service is an enormous source of spam. (Citation? Run a major email site, one with at least a million users. Pay attention to what arrives on port 25 from Outlook.) One of the things we've learned over the past couple of decades is that outbound abuse is a surface indicator of underlying security issues, thus the inference is that Outlook has been launched (in Microsoft's usual fashion) without a rigorous security audit.
Third, the entire concept of webmail is wrong, stupid, and broken. Every attempt to date, and I do mean EVERY attempt, to shoehorn SMTP/POP/IMAP into something that works in a browser, has failed miserably. That includes the freemail services and the open-source projects, the commercial offerings, and the homegrown ones. One would think that given the landscape of uninterrupted failure that stretches all the way to the horizon that people would stop long enough to realize that the problem isn't the implementation: it's the concept. But no, web sites and mailing lists are filled with endless debate over how to "improve webmail". The required improvement is to abandon it entirely.
Finally, "using Google products" is an increasingly bad idea, as it's obvious that they're been thoroughly backdoored at least once -- which means that it won't be long until they've been backdoored again. And again. Yes, for many lazy and inferior people, "using Google products" is a fast answer -- but it's the wrong one.
Go shebang yourselves.
If you show only 1 month sure XP is stomping Win8. But the real statistic is when you show the last 12 month. In 11 month win 8 rose from 0% to 7.5% and is not slowing down in the last month. In the same time windows XP dropped from 27% to 20%. Win7 stayed stable. So what does it says me ? Everybody getting a replacement is getting win8. Win8 will in time, maybe 1 year, maybe 18 month, win and XP disappear. So your reference to the statistic was misleading.
That said, we can all agree win8 UI is a piece of crap for desktop.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
/. just doesn't go to 11. IE does, and it shows.
IE11 may not render Google products well because it has been optimized for the new health care exchange sites!
Microsoft hasn't figured those out yet either.
I've run into a lot of problems with IE10 on client's systems (seriously, having to set the option for rendering all sites in Compatibility Mode because too many sites are broken is ridiculous; and, of course, even that doesn't fix all sites). Not really surprised at IE11. When 8.1 was announced, it was postulated it might actually fix many issues (real or imagined) that people had with the new OS. Right. IE11 fixes IE10's problems like 8.1 fixes Win8. Actually makes a lot of sense, phrased like that. "Feature not bug" probably.
That isn't the only problem with outlook.com, loading it on IE10 (windows 7 x64, no additions except tracking protection enabled), it will reload itself after a few seconds, very annoying if you are just typing a message... How hard can it be to f-ing make sure it works.. that's why I hate browser based 'applications', pressing a reload button or accidental 'back' will fubar your current edit..
While it is no secret that Microsoft have always been reluctant in following standards established by the community in favor of using their own approach due to better compatibility with their own softwore and systems, it gets stupid when they end up breaking said compatibility in future versions. A clear sign that the IE codebase needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch, after their own specs have been formalised into a standard that at least thay can stick to themselves.
What did you expect? HTML5 is a living standard after all.
I'm hardly going to install Windows 8.1 just to see how IE11 renders things...
In my experience, Outlook Web Access has always worked better in Firefox than it has in IE.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Why is the Spanish Google site working properly?
It seems not every sysadmin got the memo and implemented Redmond's preferred workarounds
I stopped bothering with IE-specific quirks many years ago. If it can't render a standard-compliant page, then use a different browser for all I care. In fact, one of may sites catches IE users and tells them that much. And lo and behold, it works, on that site IE has dropped to #4 or #5 in the browser stats, consistently. Yes, Safari is more popular, and in good months, Opera.
Stop tolerating assholes and they just might go away, but it's a community effort.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
They did that with Opera previously on Microsoft.Com webpages. Totally broken rendering with frames sticking out and so on. If you changed Opera's browser identification string to Explorer, Opera rendered the pages intended for Explorer just fine.
So it looks like this time they are fucking up rendering gratuitously from the other side. Instead of maliciously delivering garbage HTML to browsers they don't like, they display garbage in their browser from websites they don't like.
Business as usual.
before you think it, i'm no MS shill, i use Linux and only Linux. that said, the MSIE team is doing it right this time with IE11.
while many people here are slamming on the basis of standards compliance, there is something you should know: it's broken because they are striving standards compliance.
as we all know, there are plenty of MSIE exclusive ways of doing things in the DOM and render hacks that have had to be done so you end up with code that has "browser detection" to apply browser specific hacks. MSIE is making a clean break from all of that. so all those IE only apps like Outlook Web App will now fail because all the IE specific stuff has been removed. they went so far as to remove "MSIE" from their user agent string to prevent any old code from detecting it as Internet Explorer.
IE10 user agent string: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/6.0)
IE11 user agent string: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; Trident/7.0; rv 11.0) like Gecko
so while it seems to have growing pains, as far as IE goes, IE11 is a step in the right direction.
some nice differences:
Deprecation of file:// based Proxy configuration scripts
Deprecation of document modes
Deprecated VBScript in IE11 mode pages
navigator.plugins -- now a supported extensibility point <-- ironically chrome is removing this support
ActiveX now behaves like a navigator plugin.
Silverlight plugin is not installed by default (they got Netflix to support HTML5 via Encrypted Media Extensions aka DRM in the HTML5 spec)
more info:
http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/07/02/internet-explorer-11-dont-call-me-ie/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ieinternals/archive/2013/09/24/internet-explorer-11-changelist-change-log.asp
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
You clearly haven't had to support non-technical users who accidentally switched to iOS7. Talk about fucked up and backwards (not to mention the Crayola enema it got).
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
learn not to use Winblows products by now...
According to the KB article, all one has to do is...
Press F10 to display the menu bar, go to the Tools menu, and then click Compatibility View settings. Add the OWA site to the list of sites to be viewed in compatibility view.
Afterward, the setting will be remembered. Not such a big deal. As far back as IE 8, I've come across the odd site that requires compatibility view to work properly. So you set it, forget it, and move on.
I can't believe people are still using IE, Has it ever really worked properly going back to IE5? If it wasn't rejecting CSS / HTML code or if it wasn't hanging causing non response errors it was failing to load pages. Now lets forward through releases and they are at IE11 which is causing Google rendering to fail! This means not only is IE bad enough to barely work in the best cases, it's causing issues with other software, I think it's time for Microsoft to admit they know jack shit about browser development.
Elsewhere it would be "I'm no racist, I have some good friends who are Black. But...".
IE10 broke many things. Want to edit your Shortel configuration? Better not do it in IE10 or you will wind up with a corrupt database. AdvancedMD? Stray far from such things, broken in IE9 as well without a registry hack. Inspire E-Learning? Not going to work in IE10 Speaking of Advanced MD, any medical website that any of our(the company I work for) clients use is broken and unsupported in IE 10. Calling the tech support line results in something like this,
ME: "My client is having such and such issue, I have been looking at everything for 15 - 20 minutes, I can't find anything wrong, do you have any ideas?
Tech: "We only support Internet Explorer, are you using Internet Explorer?"
Me: "Yes"
Tech: "What version of Internet Explorer are you using?"
Me: "IE10 64bit."
Tech: "Oh...... We don't support Internet Exploder 10.... I can't help you..." *click*
Me: "Da Fuq?"
Meaning that the only way to force Windows 8/8.1 to boot into Safe Mode is to first boot successfully, thereby not needing Safe Mode in the first place.
You've got to admit it's way more elaborate than the original "Keyboard missing -- Press F5 to continue" hoax.
Then the upgrade lands and promises to fix the things I HATED in 8.... but nope, still sucks.
Have you been able to change the things you HATED in 8? No? That's exactly because they are fixed, constant as the Northern Star.
Odd how IE11 passes ACID 1, 2 and 3, but some sites break. Maybe the other sites are broken, whilst IE11 is even more standards compliant than ever?
need Metro side loading and selling apps out side of the MS store.
Or are you saying we should pirate it?
Because if we check it out ourselves personally as you demand
a) you'll point "See! It's selling like hotcakes!"
b) we paid to test drive??!!
c) if we reall do decide it is crap, we can't get our money back
d) MS will point to the sales and go "If you don't write for Win8, Metro Style, you'll lose ALL those customers!"
e) MS get paid because you said we have to
Even with the workarounds like Classic Shell or Stardock, the Metro processes are still running in the background. For those who remember 98Lite as the tool to remove IE integration as well as several other non-optional components, is there any progress on doing the same in Win8/8.1 for Metro?
But, lately its chrome that has been causing me lots of grief. It seems speed is more important than actually rendering things properly.
Take for example the chrome rowspan 0 bug, https://www.google.com/search?q=chrome+rowspan+0
Still broken as of 30.0.1599.101, rowspan=0 in chrome is basically rowspan=1 which completely misses the point.
That's totally co-incidental, Microsoft would never hack their own browser to make looking at the other fellas stuff a jagged experience ..
Call me when we start using the web browser as a user interface for:
* Photoshop
* Autocad
* Video Editing software
* 3D Rendering software
* Realtime geophone analysis
It was originally designed so unskilled people could create content and now it's been pressed into service doing extremely complex things.
The web fucking sucks.
If TBL had said "Be strict in what you send, and stricter in what you receive," then the web would be easy for skilled & knowledgable folks to work with, but it would have no content.
Instead, all the content would be locked up in AOL, Prodigy and (shudder) CompuServ.
I know, I know, man the barricades! But annoying nonetheless...
IE IE OH!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
How about '8.1 just totally broke explorer?' Cookies don't work properly (i.e. log in on main page, go to sub page, and hey, you're not logged in!) the 'open/save' dialogue just kinda ignores button presses, download links aren't resolved through (instead of asking if you'd like to open or save foo.zip, it asks if you'd like to open or save download.php?fileid=1345 and then ignores your button presses).
Resetting doesn't help. Removing/adding from windows features doesn't help. Can't reinstall, as it's baked in. Firefox works fine.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
What the heck is that? Is it a browser?
So here I am, with my Samsung laptop, just installed the 8.1 update. Almost everything works hunky dory,
;)
(see my comment history - VLC broke, and I've got a stupid warning watermark on my desktop that I can't get rid of)
and here's a vague article implying IE11 messes up certain websites that I use often...
Let's check it then.
Start up IE11 (Second time I've ever used IE on this laptop. Huzzah. F*ck it's slow)
google - do a few searches...looks good to me.
gmail - log in, check email...can't see anything weird...
maps then? Nope, all good.
So what is supposed to be broken? Can anyone give me concrete examples?
I'm not going to create an outlook account BTW, stuff that.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Java/web dev. I am not a fan of MS. I'll probably get down voted as a paid MS shill because I'm not jumping on the slag of MS bandwagon - I wish, I could use the money