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87-Year-Old World War II Veteran Takes On the TSA
McGruber writes "Orlando Sentinel columnist Lauren Ritchie has written about how Transportation Security Administration (TSA) checkpoints handle her father Sam, an 87-year-old who has a propensity to question authority in a quiet way, and make his target feel stupid. Sam points to the signs that the TSA posts stating that those above the age of 75 don't have to take off their shoes for screening. Maybe the TSA thinks all old people wear floppy tennies, but Sam's favorite pair have metal. So every time Sam goes through the screening, an alarm goes off, and an officer makes him remove his shoes. And every time he feels compelled to test the TSA. Sometimes, Sam spots them a few points by warning them ahead of time that his shoes have metal.... it got to be a ritual for a while, ending with him throwing his hands up and remarking to the TSA person: 'Hey, something's not right here.'"
Stuff that mattressssssss
The TSA missed an opportunity here for further insulting the general populous. They could have applied logic and come up with the reasoning that old people have less years to live, therefor less to lose and are therefor are more likely to be a suicide bomber. The logical consequence would be that old people need more and closer inspection. not less.
I almost only read /. for its plethora of TSA stories and comments. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy i'm not the only one who gets love from the TSA. They love me so much that every time I fly, they give me a quick chop to the crotch and all I have to do is refuse the all seeing scanners.
Here the headline led me to believe a member of the Greatest Generation was stepping up *again* to defend American freedom. You know, maybe filing a lawsuit or something. But no, TFA is just about the author's father being a passive-aggressive jerk in the airport security line. As if that helps anyone. If all you are accomplishing is to make yourself feel smarter than a TSA screener, you are not accomplishing much at all.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Between 87 year olds taking on TSA and 90+ year olds storming the steps of the closed WWII memorial, I feel my rights and liberties are well protected. Well, at least until Social Security and Medicare run out of money then we're screwed.
Am I right in thinking that whole jabbering mess could be condensed to "my deaf relative annoys TSA people in airports"?
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Poor schlub is just trying to take home a paycheck. He (or she) did not make the stupid rules; she (or he) just has smell feet all day.
Take the TSA to court, or send letters to your congresscritter, or something. Don't make life more miserable for the privates.
(Did I mention that the TSA is just a depression-era jobs program wrapped up in patriotism and fear?)
Cranky old man causes shit in lineups. News at 11.
WTF is this doing on Slashdot?
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Damnit now you've given them another attack vector to explore! You've helped the terrorists win, are you happy now?
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Muzzie heaven, were all the terrorists are disappointed and all the virgins are male.
If he knows he's goin to fly, maybe just bring the metal shoes in the suitcase and get some 'flying shoes' for the trip.
Muzzie heaven, were all the terrorists are disappointed and all the virgins are male.
According to "the innocence of Muslims" Muhammad wouldn't have been
People don't like having pointed out the logical inconsistencies of the way the do things, and it has a tendency to piss them off. This is not limited to TSA personnel. However the consequences of pissing off certain people (especially those who hold power over you) is something that you need to take into consideration before you do so.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Cause we all hate the TSA.
Why is this comment here? It's not contributing, it's barely a comment at all - this isn't a comment, it doesn't matter, and it's not for people.
Why is this here?
You can bet there are some 87-year old Muslims out there who would love to take a shoe-bomb if they thought they could get through.
Radical Islam specializes in young men for their operations, not old. It's only logical for a polygamous religion. Allowing men to marry as many women as they can afford means that you're going to have a lot of horny, angry young men on your hands who don't get ANY wives (or even get laid, since they don't like that either). So, assuming a equitable birthrate of males and females, you need some way to get rid of all those angry young men. So either you have a war or you con them into believing that they can have all the wives they want in heaven if they'll just walk into the nearest mall and blow themselves up. Sure, it's dumb as shit. But when you're talking desperately horny, poor, illiterate goat farmers--you can talk them into pretty much anything.
If someone has made it to 87 in this environment, odds are that they're one of the smart ones at the top of this big religious pyramid scam who actually have something to lose. Notice that Osama Bin Laden wasn't one of the 9-11 hijackers. He was sitting back safely in his bunker with his several wives, while the young saps killed themselves for Allah.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
I'm all for baiting the TSA. Most of their security measures are just plain ridiculous. I swear that after the shoe bomber got them to make us take off our shoes, the underwear bomber was sent in to see if they'd strip search us. (And they responded with backscatter scanners. Discuss.)
But, applying the same security measures to everyone -- old, young, crippled, whatever -- is not among their failings. That's the only part of what they do that makes sense. Once you declare a "safe" class of passengers who get waved through the searches, you're tempting The Bad Guys to enlist members of that class. Do 90 year old guys get a pass? I'm sure The Bad Guys can find some disgruntled nonagenarian to stuff some C4 down his pants or carry the dreaded 3.1 ounces of liquid explosive. The only way security searches work is if they're applied to everyone.
Of course, the TSA can't even get that right. They introduced their Pre-Check program which reduces the checks to pre-9/11 levels for pre-approved travelers. So how hard would it be to recruit some guy who qualifies for the Pre-Check lane to be the bomb mule?
Psssst! Hey Bad Guys! Want to cripple air travel in the US? Just bomb a couple airport security checkpoints. Lots of people, tightly packed together, all standing in a nice line, and no chance of being discovered early. Hit a couple of those and we'll shit ourselves trying to figure out how to strip-search passengers without causing big, vulnerable holding areas. It's a pretty damned obvious target. The fact that it hasn't happened in the past 12 years is the best evidence that there really isn't a legion of Bad Guys out there just waiting for the chance to attack. They've had the chance. We've gift-wrapped it for them. Now let's just admit that the bogeyman is mostly in our imaginations.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Old guy with nothing better do harasses TSA agents over loophole, wasting the time of innocent people trying to catch their planes.
You can bet there are some 87-year old Muslims out there who would love to take a shoe-bomb if they thought they could get through.
But when you're talking desperately horny, poor, illiterate goat farmers--you can talk them into pretty much anything.
If someone has made it to 87 in this environment, odds are that they're one of the smart ones at the top of this big religious pyramid scam who actually have something to lose. Notice that Osama Bin Laden wasn't one of the 9-11 hijackers. He was sitting back safely in his bunker with his several wives, while the young saps killed themselves for Allah.
While OBL wasn't one of the 9-11 hijackers, some of the ones who were were university educated.
This meme that the archetypical Muslim terrorist is poor, illiterate, and has no other options needs to go away. We can't address the problem with incorrect presumptions floating around.
It really shouldn't matter what you are. If the metal detector goes off, you have to take off the shoes and every thing else that could cause the alarm. I don't see any reason for exceptions. What's the point of having a metal detector if you're not acting on an alarm...
You can hate the TSA, but at least they're doing their job.
Privacy is terrorism.
The guy has a point about his wallet. I "lost" a $10 watch (really nice looking, but a cheap birthday gift from my daughter, bought with her allowance money) on their belt. When I complained, everyone claimed ignorance and with the clock ticking and the line stopped I became aware of one interesting social feature in the security line system design: With the level of inconvencience already high, the impatience of your fellow travellers is a very effective cudgel that the TSA uses as a resource.
As I tried to plead my case I noticed the uninvolved TSA folks were playing to the crowd with how they talked and their body language -- "look guys, it's THIS guy who is gumming up the works and making you late." And I could certainly feel the love...
In the end, regardless of the sentimental value it was just a $10 watch. I think the entire affair lasted a bit under a minute and a half, but I knuckled under and the TSA thief won. I sometimes wonder how much of this was anticipated by the thief -- that at some set rate you can just snag an item of not much consequence and let the time pressure work for you...
Just remember, while you arguably benefit from their services, these people are not actually on your side here (you *are* the suspect after all) and it's not like their uniform implies any particular level of integrity.
When it comes to the Pashto terrorists the US loves to target with drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan, this wouldn't be so much of a disappointment. In their culture, it is not contrary to Islam to engage in anal sex with another male provided that one is the active partner and provided that the passive partner is a minor. Pederasty is historically very popular even among hardliners.
Violating people's freedoms and the constitution is not and never will be "sensible." Even if this nonsense did make us safer (And it doesn't; secured cockpit doors and the willingness of passengers to fight back are the important things that have changed, and neither violate anyone's rights.), freedom is more important than safety from some bogeyman.
Ignorance is a choice
So that's the asshole ahead of me slowing down the line.
Honestly, profiling is smart.
No. You know what's smart? Leaving people alone. Government thugs should not harass everyone, and they shouldn't selectively harass people, either; just leave people alone. I want the TSA gone, and I don't want it replaced with more government thugs; I want it 100% gone.
Ignorance is a choice
This has no geek content whatsoever. In order to keep myself from slashing my wrists out of boredom I had to wonder about how hearing aid technology could be improved.
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While OBL wasn't one of the 9-11 hijackers, some of the ones who were were university educated.
Maybe because you can't exactly have dirt farmers who can hardly read and do any math beyond the 2nd grade level flying planes that they've hardly ever seen the sight of? By and large, most people fighting The West(tm) in the name of AlQuada are the same kind of ragtags that extermist groups pick up on everywhere else in the world. There are doubtlessly well educated, highly employable people in the Klan too, does that mean the core membership of the KKK has their BS or better? Hardly.
Being university educated doesn't necessarily mean you aren't gullible and stupid.
The removal of shoes was never about safety and we all know that. It was and continues to be a tool used by the TSA to cow the American public into submission. It is a successful tactic in that the "think of the children" crowd will always side with more and more intrusions all in the name of some vague notion of security. If 9/11 did anything, it turned the U.S. into a nascent police state.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
They actually go for engineers, from my understanding.
Here's my "theory" why: once they are convinced there is a problem, they have a need to fix it. All they have to do is make them believe there is a problem, and offer a convenient way to "fix" it.
Note: by theory I mean "thing that I just made up, now, on the spot"
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
So, harassing low paid workers at the bottom of the food chain who are performing their jobs in good faith, slowing and inconveniencing all the other travelers with energetic 3-year-old kids and crotchety 85-year-old grandparents who all have to pee, and further diluting an already strained and minimally beneficial system to "buck authority" just doesn't seem to be the best way to address this. Sure, this reporter got to write a really "witty" article. But, this kind of episode just seems really self-serving and inward focused. You want to gum up the system? Spend some time organizing and do it in a concerted, organized fashion where it could actually make a change. Haphazardly slowing things up just ticks people off and makes many more complacent about "let's just get on with it so I can get on my vacation/get home/get to my meeting." Separate issue: Since when does having served in any military capacity provide carte blanche for any behavior and imbue one with near mystical wisdom about life?
Those passenger screenings are as we all know a big charade. Here's an anecdote of Munich Airport in Germany - probably the most idiotic airport in Germany I had to travel through.
While most airports in Germany don't care about cameras, Munich airport has a special fetish for controlling cameras. 2 times out of 3 they want me to take my dSLR out of my Backpack to finger it. Usually they want me to turn it on and look through it, but my friendly offers to take an image to prove it works usually ends it panicky horror. Whatever.
So I got a little pissed of and decided the next time to take out the battery of the camera. And sure enough they wanted to to search it again and asked me to turn it on. As usual, I turned the Power switch to on, but without battery nothing happened, and handed the camera to the goon. I don't know what he ascertained with his ritual, but after looking through it, he was happy the camera without power is real.
As at that time I was playing around with long-exposures during daytime, I carried with me an ND1000 filter. This is basically a piece of black glass that lets through only minimal light. It's about as dark as welders glasses or those things you used to observer the sun during an eclipse. In the rather low light at the airport, you don't see anything through that filter. So evil me removed the battery again and screwed that filter on in front the next times I flew out of Munich. Out of about 5 manual checks, here's the breakdown:
2 checked the camera after the power-up without battery and the black glass in front of the lens the usual way by looking through it and doing their magic ritual. The fact that the camera was dead as a brick and the didn't see anything didn't faze them to hand it back satisfied without comment.
2 wondered why the didn't see anything and looked if the lens-cap was still on. After they saw that no it isn't on and the front is some kind of glass, they relooked through the camera - without seining anything more - and were happy with the results.
Only one out if the 5 asked why he can't see anything and when I told him, that this is a special filter for long exposure was also happy to let me pass. Asking to remove it for the check wasn't in his book.
So 5 out of 5 weren't bothered by the fact that turning the camera on has no visible effect and the same 5 in the end were also happy that they didn't see anything when they looked through the camera.
What a strange world we live in!
News story came up on the radio a couple of days ago while I was getting ready to enter the rat race. The interviewee was complaining about how Americans are so-o-o un-stylish when they travel -- wearing sweats and flip flops -- while the Italians, on the other hand, wear expensive suits and look so snazzy. And I thought: Let's see how long those Italians continue to wear their fancy suits while traveling when they start having to take off half their clothes before getting on the effin' plane.
If we shut down all the scanners and fired all the TSA gropers and spent 10% of that money to hire more air marshals and another 10% to police the airport ground crews we'd probably be way ahead on airliner security than we are today.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
As opposed to the imperialism of western, mostly Christian nations, which is noted for sending women in their 50s off to invade other countries.
The use of young men as cannon fodder is unrelated to polygamous religion.
Some of the 9/11 hijackers were married. Some had been to college. Most were middle-class.
But don't let facts get in the way of your ignorant Islamophobia.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Yeah, following orders .. jawohl mein herr. Sorry. The Lieutenant can order you to smash the baby's skull against the tree, but following orders is not a defense. The puppet masters whom you are right to hold at fault would be nowhere if there weren't people willing to take their orders and play their part in tyrranizing the people.
Can't find a single thing to argue about in your point that the dumb boobs who don't value liberty are both contemptible and at fault.
So either you have a war or you con them into believing that they can have all the wives they want in heaven if they'll just walk into the nearest mall and blow themselves up.
So these wives must be soulless or never lived on earth or essentially "newborn." Or where would they all come from? I guess a wife is not a companion in Islam so maybe it wouldn't matter. Just a bunch of heavenly Realdolls that move.
As opposed to the imperialism of western, mostly Christian nations, which is noted for sending women in their 50s off to invade other countries.
I don't recall making the assertion that the West was perfect (most certainly not).
But on a very real-world level, who would you rather be ruled by--the Taliban or the U.S. government? If your argument for equivalency is valid, you shouldn't be able to answer that question. But I bet if you're being honest that you can, can't you?
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
And most of the July 2005 London bombers were doctors.
University educated, but not doctors.
He's probably thinking of the Glasgow Airport attack
Tried to pack a kid's lunch lately? Or held a birthday party? Or baked anything for a bake sale?
Nuts are the new communism party. "Are you or have you even been in contact with nuts?"
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
maybe I shouldn't bother, but your statement "Allowing men to marry as many women as they can afford" betrays you lack of knowledge about Islam. I'll give you a hint: that practice is what is forbidden by Islam.
Neither does histrionics and paranoia. The simple fact is that airport security has nothing to do with keeping you safe and has been shown to be highly ineffective at stopping any real attempt to circumvent them. It's security theater, not actual security. Terrorism and the war on terror isn't about saving lives or fighting bad guys, it's about suppressing freedom and oppressing the populace. If you think otherwise, you're ignorant to reality.
I got here through a series of tubes
Sounds like he's more willing to fix the problem than you are.
Notice that Osama Bin Laden wasn't one of the 9-11 hijackers. He was sitting back safely in his bunker with his several wives, while the young saps killed themselves for Allah.
Hell, even in Afghanistan in the 80s bin Laden sat back in the safety of Pakistan. He was always the radical Islamic version of an REMF.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
I'd like to address this, as I have personal experience.
First of all, nut allergies are not caused by crazy overprotective parents (yes, I know he didn't say that, but it was kind of implied). When our daughter was 4, she ate some pecan turtles, and swelled up like a balloon. We took her to the doctor who tested her and said, "Nut allergy".
Second, nut allergies can be deadly. Anaphlactic shock can kill someone fairly quickly.
Third, I never tried to regulate what other kids brought to school for *their* lunch. My only request -- stated to the teacher and to other parents -- was that if they are bringing goodies *to share with the class*, that they avoid nuts in such items.
As for the "no nut/peanut zones" in schools, I think they're CYA for the schools.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Being university educated doesn't necessarily mean you aren't gullible and stupid.
But being University educated and still a Muslim does.
Surely you have this the wrong way round!
People like this grew up during the Great Depression and lived through a time when America achieved greatness.
No wonder they have a low BS tolerance.
The facts are still the facts.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
It's sad that so many fools went to their deaths following a spoiled, rich poseur. Ironically, he was a lot like George W. Bush in that regard--the rich boy who's more than happy to send everyone else out to fight and die, but who runs and hides when it comes his time to fight.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Being university educated doesn't necessarily mean you aren't gullible and stupid.
Thankfully, or I would've never gotten laid in school.
This is the mentality which is being perpetrated by these idiotic checkpoints:
Now all we need is to promote ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, and the elite. Oh wait, we're already there...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
I have two kids so, yes, I'm very familiar with nut allergy issues. Thankfully, my kids don't have nut allergies. My wife has a walnut allergy so we need to watch for that, but that's pretty easy to handle. It's also not so bad that she'll get a reaction if she touches something that was touched by someone who touched a walnut. Some allergies are that bad. There are kids who will go into anaphlactic shock if they touch a pencil that another kid touched after eating peanut butter.
If a school has to guarantee the safety of a child with a severe nut allergy, I see nothing wrong with setting certain rules for food coming into the building. Yes, they can go overboard, but for the most part these rules (unlike the TSA's rules) actually do help keep kids from having severe allergic reactions. My boys bring peanut butter sandwiches to school but know not to give their food to other kids.
My oldest will actually get very worried about kids eating food that they might be allergic to. He used to grill the waiters at restaurants about food his cousin would order when she had an egg allergy. He also wouldn't order a food he really wanted because he was sitting next to her and his food would contain eggs. Even if we said it was fine (as long as she didn't eat from his plate), he'd refuse and would order something else.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I'd only add that kids should know to wash their hands after eating. This is especially true if a child in their class is extremely allergic to the point that Child A touching a crayon after eating a PB sandwich causes Child B to go into anaphlactic shock when he picks up that same crayon. My kids have been in those situations. This happened to be at a daycare where they all ate together so they banned nut products entirely. We gladly altered our kids' lunches to suit this other child's needs knowing that this was a minor inconvenience to us but life and death to the child.
Do some schools go nuts (pun intended) over these bans? Sure. But that doesn't mean all requests to avoid nut products are overreactions.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I'd also like to add that these "nut bans" are taking place in local schools. If you don't like it, you can talk to your superintendent or local school board to get them changed.
Who would you talk to to get the TSA's practices changed? Until the federal government begins confiscating all products with nuts in them and arrests people who peddle black market pecans, I don't think we have a "War on Nuts."
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Yes, I've met a few decent people working for the TSA, but the vast majority have been bullies. Whether they started out as bullies who couldn't find better jobs, or who consider the SHOUTING to be one of the benefits, or whether they started out as average people put into confrontational jobs with bullies for supervisors and start bullying people habitually, they're still bullies.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
If you were paying attention back when the TSA started telling people to take their shoes off, it wasn't because of the Shoe Bomber incident, which hadn't happened yet. It was because a lot of mens' shoes have metal shanks in them and were setting off the metal detectors, and they didn't want the lines getting held up sending people back to run their shoes through the X-Ray machine.
At first it was a "Please take off your shoes" request, but if you knew you had non-metallic shoes they didn't force you to take them off (I tended to wear Teva sandals, and lots of people in Hawaii wear flipflops, especially inter-island.)
Then a few airports started saying "Everybody must take your shoes off, it's ALWAYS been the rule", because it's easier to have the grunts think it's always been the rule than have them actually have to think or do different things for different people (and realistically, a lot of travellers don't realize they have metal in their shoes, and sometimes there's just a bit of metal like shoelace hole reinforcers in sneakers, so it only sets it off if the metal detectors are turned up high and not if they're set lower.)
Then the shoe-bomber idiot did his thing, and after that the TSA started making everybody take off their shoes, and then they started making videos for people to watch when they're stuck in unreasonably long lines, which dishonestly tell people that the shoe rule was made for our safety.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
If you were paying attention back when the TSA started telling people to take their shoes off, it wasn't because of the Shoe Bomber incident, which hadn't happened yet. It was because a lot of mens' shoes have metal shanks in them and were setting off the metal detectors, and they didn't want the lines getting held up sending people back to run their shoes through the X-Ray machine.
At first it was a "Please take off your shoes" request, but if you knew you had non-metallic shoes they didn't force you to take them off (I tended to wear Teva sandals, and lots of people in Hawaii wear flipflops, especially inter-island.) Or sometimes they'd yell at you for not doing it, and they really dislike being challenged by anyone, such as being told "If it were actually a TSA rule, it'd be on the sign", which often got me an honest response of "we can take you in the back room and search through all your stuff long enough that you'll miss your flight, so obey orders or we'll do that."
Then a few airports started saying "Everybody must take your shoes off, it's ALWAYS been the rule", because it's easier to have the grunts think it's always been the rule than have them actually have to think or do different things for different people (and realistically, a lot of travellers don't realize they have metal in their shoes, and sometimes there's just a bit of metal like shoelace hole reinforcers in sneakers, so it only sets it off if the metal detectors are turned up high and not if they're set lower.)
Then the shoe-bomber idiot did his thing, and after that the TSA started making everybody take off their shoes, and then they started making videos for people to watch when they're stuck in unreasonably long lines, which dishonestly tell people that the shoe rule was made for our safety.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
In Moscow, after you go through the back-scatter machine, there is an attractive middle-aged blonde lady who uses her hands to touch the suspicious areas. I didn't even begin to think about complaining about this treatment. For some reason I fantasize about taping my spare kopecks to strategic locations on my body :)
Organization: alphabetical, sometimes numerical or messy
This deserves up mod informative. Or deserved, since I'm two days late reading it.
Thanks, Bill, for the fast-compression thing - it's well worth the reading; I think it would be good general knowledge compared to what many of us carry around in our heads concerning CPR.
Many above mention the 4th amendment.
.) even though its being done "to me", that it technically is a violation of "me".
In general, the older I get, the more I become a "strict constitutionalist in favor of small federal government", but . . . while I respect the constitution more, it does seem to lag in one aspect . . . when your rights are tempered, because others have rights as well.
The constitution doesn't seem to address the distinction when one persons "right" comes into conflict with others "rights".
As in . .
If I walk out into the desert, away from all other people and property, with 20lbs of explosives strapped to myself and detonate it . . .
That's quite different, than if I walk into a crowded room and do the same thing.
The first, simply exercises my rights . . . the second, disrupts (in a violent and irreparable way) the rights of others.
The aspect most leave out of the discussion about searching your person . . . it isn't being performed to "find out" something "about you" . . . its to "protect others" rights.
In an odd way, in this case . . . the searching of "you" has nothing to do with "you".
Having said that . . . (though I flew lots earlier in my career) I don't think I've flown commercially in the "scope or grope" era. Partially because I think I'd feel "violated" to do so . . . I'm just not sure (in light of the fact that its being done to protect "others rights" . .
No, I don't remember your name. But the memory mapped screen on a TRS80 from 1977 is from 15360 to 16383 if that helps.