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Why Johnny Can't Speak: a Cost of Paywalled Research

theodp writes "That there's no easy way for her to get timely, affordable access to taxpayer-funded research that could help her patients leaves speech-language pathologist Cortney Grove, well, speechless. 'Cortney's frustration,' writes the EFF's Adi Kamdar, 'is not uncommon. Much of the research that guides health-related progress is funded by taxpayer dollars through government grants, and yet those who need this information most-practitioners and their patients-cannot afford to access it.' She says, 'In my field we are charged with using scientific evidence to make clinical decisions. Unfortunately, the most pertinent evidence is locked up in the world of academic publishing and I cannot access it without paying upwards of $40 an article. My current research project is not centered around one article, but rather a body of work on a given topic. Accessing all the articles I would like to read will cost me nearly a thousand dollars. So, the sad state of affairs is that I may have to wait 7-10 years for someone to read the information, integrate it with their clinical opinions (biases, agendas, and financial motivations) and publish it in a format I can buy on Amazon. By then, how will my clinical knowledge and skills have changed? How will my clients be served in the meantime? What would I do with the first-hand information that I will not be able to do with the processed, commercialized product that emerges from it in a decade?'"

189 comments

  1. Simple by bondsbw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taxpayer-funded research should be accessible by taxpayers.

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    1. Re:Simple by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taxpayer-funded research should be accessible by taxpayers.

      It is, technically. By technically I mean, it was published once, in a 'free' publication, sent to a few libraries, and thus the public access requirement was met. But since you'll never find it there because it isn't indexed, searchable, or in any way known... it's effectively useless. See, once again our shitty co(r)p-y(a)-right system fucks us; They make it so if you assemble a collection of works together into a database, that now counts as a unique and copyrightable work unto itself. So... although the study is 'free' to the public... the "doesn't have to drive 500 miles to a library in the boon docks and find it on a shelf" convenience is what they charge for access.

      What we need is a 'google' of science/medical studies. Unfortunately our government's archaic and purposefully not updated methods of publication mean that if you want to get a digital copy... you have to contribute the labor to re-digitalization. Of course, you can get a digital copy... for a small additional processing fee. -_-

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    2. Re:Simple by martin-boundary · · Score: 2
      No. It should be accessible to all.

      Knowledge is like a road, even though taxpayers funded the building of it, tourists from other countries aren't forbidden to drive on it.

      Luckily, there are some hackers out there who understand this, and work hard to unlock journal articles and books so that the whole world can read them.

    3. Re:Simple by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's really as easy as that. If the government funds your research, a minimum requirement should be that it's freely available to anyone who wants it regardless of where else it might be published. It's probably incredibly sad, but I think I probably have more pirated research papers than I do music, movies, or other content. I find it surprising that "free open source" hasn't been widely applied to education in the same way that it has software.

    4. Re:Simple by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Taxpayer-funded research should be accessible by taxpayers.

      Seems publishers would have no problem with that if taxpayers are also prepared to pay the cost of publication.

      One of my clients is a "legacy" academic journal publisher. They actually offer an open access publication option for researchers where researchers can pay the publishing costs and have their article available freely online. It's priced lower than the open access journals, by the way. Seems they don't get many takers, though.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    5. Re:Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Sorry, the government has no obligation to you, just like any other common thief. After they steal from you, they are free to do whatever they want with it.

    6. Re:Simple by noh8rz10 · · Score: 4, Informative

      you mean like adam schwarz? that didn't end well.

    7. Re:Simple by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      And if you couldn't charge for the convenience, there would be none.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    8. Re:Simple by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      I don't mean Adam. I mean others who do the same around the world, but stay anonymous and somewhat more hidden.

      There comes a time when the success of the end goal is more important than the rewards from being known as a champion of the cause. Adam thought it was right to be martyred, he thought copying Rosa Parks' method would bring social change. But change doesn't come from a single person. It comes from unavoidable facts on the ground. To make universal knowledge a reality, it is first necessary to have all books and journals available in torrents and file sharing sites everywhere. When we can all download knowledge as easily as the latest hollywood blockbuster, only *then* can the politicians be convinced to change the laws to agree with what people already expect by that time.

      People and politicians have very little imagination. They can't believe a society can flourish with universal knowledge for all. So they have to be shown, first that the world isn't going to be destroyed if knowledge is free, and second that the benefits to society outweigh the benefits to a few corporate leeches of keeping knowledge locked up.

    9. Re:Simple by nbauman · · Score: 3, Informative

      You know about PubMed, right? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

    10. Re:Simple by noh8rz10 · · Score: 0

      who is rose park? is it a korean war thing?

    11. Re:Simple by pepty · · Score: 5, Informative

      By technically I mean, it was published once, in a 'free' publication, sent to a few libraries, and thus the public access requirement was met. But since you'll never find it there because it isn't indexed, searchable, or in any way known... it's effectively useless.

      What???

      The Policy implements Division G, Title II, Section 218 of PL 110-161 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008) which states: SEC. 218. The Director of the National Institutes of Health shall require that all investigators funded by the NIH submit or have submitted for them to the National Library of Medicine’s PubMed Central an electronic version of their final peer-reviewed manuscripts upon acceptance for publication, to be made publicly available no later than 12 months after the official date of publication: Provided, That the NIH shall implement the public access policy in a manner consistent with copyright law. The Public Access Policy ensures that the public has access to the published results of NIH-funded research. It requires scientists to submit final peer-reviewed journal manuscripts that arise from NIH funds to the digital archive PubMed Central (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/). The Policy requires that these final peer-reviewed manuscripts be accessible to the public on PubMed Central to help advance science and improve human health.

      NIH/ NSF sponsored research published since 2008 is available on Pubmed for free 12 months after it is first published. Most of the rest you can rent from DeepDyve.com for about a buck an article.

    12. Re: Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that is clearly communism. we do not want that do we?

    13. Re:Simple by anubi · · Score: 1

      Rosa Parks, a black person in the state of Alabama in the USA, deliberately disobeyed an order from a bus driver that she had to sit in a section of the bus reserved for black people. This was during a time when race segregation in the Southeast portion of the USA was rampant.

      She deliberately defied authority. In front of everybody.

      Others saw and her action was a call for others to take action as well... and things changed.

      A lot of us are doing this today - just flat defying authority when we perceive the underlying cause is simply not just. Just as in what this topic is discussing... do people have a right to charge for taxpayer funded work?

      It is the populace's way of trying to communicate with lawmakers over laws perceived to be unjust - so lawmakers now are faced with trying to enforce the bad law.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    14. Re:Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, stop doing LSD.

    15. Re:Simple by noh8rz10 · · Score: 3, Informative

      i'm pretty sure that ms. parks didn't cause a spontaneous movement. rather, the movement was ready to go, and they chose rosa to make an iconic stand.

    16. Re:Simple by aepervius · · Score: 2

      "Seems publishers would have no problem with that if taxpayers are also prepared to pay the cost of publication."

      As learned from the traditional book/eBook publisher, the biggest cost of publication is not the printing, it is the correcting, the formating, and the setting in a correct format. *all* of that is handled during the review, or for the format by the maker of the article. They don't even have to provide advance in money tow rite the article, since the article are given for free. The biggest hurdle might be to organize stuff around like the peer review, but compared to normal publishing this is *nothing* in cost. Now try to compare the cost of a normal book to the cost of *EACH* article online. And try to tell us those cost are for the publishing. That's a big fat lie.

      --
      C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
      visit randi.org
    17. Re:Simple by slick7 · · Score: 1

      No. It should be accessible to all.

      Knowledge is like a road, even though taxpayers funded the building of it, tourists from other countries aren't forbidden to drive on it.

      Luckily, there are some hackers out there who understand this, and work hard to unlock journal articles and books so that the whole world can read them.

      It's the new "classified for national security" strategy. It's one thing to keep people from profiting for their efforts, but it's another thing from profiting what was already paid for.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    18. Re:Simple by BemoanAndMoan · · Score: 1

      To make universal knowledge a reality, it is first necessary to have all books and journals available in torrents and file sharing sites everywhere. When we can all download knowledge as easily as the latest hollywood blockbuster, only *then* can the politicians be convinced to change the laws to agree with what people already expect by that time.

      <sarcasm>Yes, because that's exactly what happened with movies and music.</sarcasm>

      And what the hell are "unavoidable facts on the ground". Sounds like you're talking dog shit.

    19. Re:Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's probably incredibly sad, but I think I probably have more pirated research papers than I do music, movies, or other content.

      "Back in the day," piracy was the single most common way to distribute scientific research. In fact, I still have three filing cabinets full of articles I xeroxed either from a library or from a fellow researcher. We call it fair use. The modern system is much better - higher quality type and images, fewer dead trees, and no more $0.10/page xerox fees. All NIH funded research is available for free no more than 1 year after publication. see http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4382101&cid=45249551

      Honestly, every time I see one of these "paywalled research is hurting patients" bits on /. I wonder how the submitter, supposedly a health-care expert, has managed to stay ignorant of the 10-year-old requirement for archiving in PubMed Central and the resulting massive trove of free books and journals at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/

    20. Re: Simple by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      While change doesn't necessarily come from one person, a single person making a public stand can be sufficient for others to gain courage to do the same. Even it doesn't, it can be enough to get people talking in public and that is a good thing

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    21. Re:Simple by richlv · · Score: 1

      so everybody should be able to parse pubmed, download any new articles, archive and serve them for free ?
      or would you get oritzed ?

      --
      Rich
    22. Re:Simple by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Indeed. Charging the public again for research the public funded is theft, plain and simple. So is patenting publicly funded research (unless there is a perpetual free license for everybody) or keeping it secret.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    23. Re:Simple by ultranova · · Score: 1

      People and politicians have very little imagination. They can't believe a society can flourish with universal knowledge for all. So they have to be shown, first that the world isn't going to be destroyed if knowledge is free, and second that the benefits to society outweigh the benefits to a few corporate leeches of keeping knowledge locked up.

      Politicians don't really care if a society can flourish. They sought power either because they have some kind of ideology they want to ram down everyone's throats, or because they saw corruption and wanted a piece of the action - or both. Leeches won't every prioritize common good over their leeching, obviously, and ideological fundamentalists don't want the society to flourish, they want it to follow their ideology, and if anything things improving will make it harder to accomplish that ("if we let people get used to Obamacare, we'll never get rid of it"). So does an educated population, for that matter, so they have an even greater incentive to try and censor whenever they can.

      That said, bypassing official controls and making universal knowledge a reality is certainly a good idea. It won't change the minds of politicians, but it'll make them powerless to stop it, which is good enough.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    24. Re:Simple by mysidia · · Score: 1

      . Of course, you can get a digital copy... for a small additional processing fee. -_-

      And by small... you mean $2.50 a page to be paid to the outsourced digitization provider?

      (Otherwise known as $50 for a 20-page article)

    25. Re:Simple by toppavak · · Score: 2
      Generally yes, although the specific restrictions may vary. From the link (PMC = PubMed Central):

      The PMC Open Access Subset some or all openaccess content is a part of the total collection of articles in PMC. Articles in the PMC Open Access Subset are still protected by copyright, but are made available under a Creative Commons or similar license that generally allows more liberal redistribution and reuse than a traditional copyrighted work. Note, however, that the license terms are not identical for all of the articles in this subset. Please refer to the license statement in each article for specific terms of use. We also provide a search-by-license feature, described below, which enables finding articles with specific reuse rights.

    26. Re:Simple by toppavak · · Score: 1

      Which is why it's fairly costly to publish in the Public Library of Science (PLoS) with publication fees ranging from $1,350 to $2,900. Fortunately most grants allow you to use those funds to pay the submission fees and many universities (at least in the US) have programs that can help support the cost as well.

    27. Re:Simple by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      What we need is a 'google' of science/medical studies. Unfortunately our government's archaic and purposefully not updated methods of publication mean that if you want to get a digital copy... you have to contribute the labor to re-digitalization. Of course, you can get a digital copy... for a small additional processing fee. -_-

      LOL, +5 "insightful" is the new +5, ignorant.

    28. Re: Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is a lot of research outside of the NIH. Not everything gets published in PubMed.

      Surprisingly the US isn't the only country in the world, and surprisingly the NIH doesn't fund the entire global research. Even more surprising is that other countries not only exist but do their own research. Shocking I know.

    29. Re:Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of those "hackers" just like to steal stuff. It's fun, it's unlikely to get you convicted, and you can always play the "information should be free!!!" sympathy card.

      Doesn't always work out well if you try to do it wholesale, though, especially when you *crash the servers* of a *non-profit that sells the organization and indexing service*, and has very reasonable rates for what is a very laborious and task. And yes, I know you're pretending that Aaron Schwartz was "freeing the information". He wasn't. He was stealing the indexing, and crashing JSTOR repeatedly in the process, screwing with research worldwide, and certainly deserved jail time.

    30. Re:Simple by CRCulver · · Score: 2

      As learned from the traditional book/eBook publisher, the biggest cost of publication is not the printing, it is the correcting, the formating, and the setting in a correct format. *all* of that is handled during the review, or for the format by the maker of the article

      Many journal publishers no longer correct and format your article. Rather, they expect you to send camera-ready text so they can just send it straight to the printer, and they do not provide any hands-on editing. For example, if you are a non-native speaker and slip up in the language anywhere, they expect the writer to have it corrected at his own expense before they accept it. Even peer review doesn't cost the publisher much money, since the peer reviewers are expected to work for free. Journal publishing is pretty much pure profit for the publisher.

    31. Re:Simple by aurizon · · Score: 1

      I would like to see the time period for free access go to zero, as fast as it can by government edict.
      After all, they started at 12 months in 2008 - why not decrease the wait time from 2008 by one month per year = now 7 months to zero.

      That will give journals time to adjust.

    32. Re:Simple by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      To make universal knowledge a reality, it is first necessary to have all books and journals available in torrents and file sharing sites everywhere.

      I knew a researcher from a place around Eastern Europe way. He claimed he had access to a university alumni forum where almost any paper could be requested, and an aluimni working at an institution with access would post the request within hours.

      They are light years ahead of us over there.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    33. Re:Simple by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      How much of such fees go to the authors? 0%. Zero. Nothing. Nada.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    34. Re:Simple by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Then fund science properly. At the moment the half assed public funding of science means that scientists are highly encouraged to patent their work so that their institutions can profit off it to continue operating. Governments encourage it too, because then they have an excuse to cut funding. Most scientists I've met aren't really interested in patenting and the hassles it involves. They'd all love to submit to open access journals too, but the high publication cost is often not covered by grants (although this is improving) and the decision is often whether to publish open access or pay a grad student enough to eat (and do research) for another month or two.

    35. Re:Simple by pepty · · Score: 2

      so everybody should be able to parse pubmed, download any new articles, archive and serve them for free ? or would you get oritzed ?

      NIH grants free access, not a complete copyright waiver, so most articles aren't available for bulk download. You can search by license type for the ones that are.

      But you want to create a free mirror of a free public service? OK, but since the articles are already publicly available and searchable by date, author, words in title, abstract, or text, patent #, pharmacological action, chemical structure, molecular weight, # of hydrogen bond donors/acceptors, DNA/RNA sequence, amino acid sequence, and about a hundred other fields you will have your work cut out for you. You'll still have to wait 12 months after publication, until then you get only whatever the publisher wants you to see. I also don't see how this helps other people get more access for their own research/curiosity than they already have. Is PubMed lacking a feature that you need?

    36. Re:Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound old and confused.

    37. Re:Simple by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      This is what /r/scholar on Reddit does.

    38. Re:Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pubmed only publishes abstracts. It is necessary to pay for full access to many of the articles.

    39. Re:Simple by mysidia · · Score: 1

      How much of such fees go to the authors? 0%. Zero. Nothing. Nada.

      Of course.... the work is actually free... the $2.50 per page is just a "nominal" service fee charged by the outside provider for the service of providing the searchable digitized archive of the material, and allowing you to print or copy the material.

      By the way, the clerk of court around here does a similar thing with their digitized legal records --- you can view all you want, but as soon as you want to have a copy made, or print out a copy it's somewhere between $1 and $2 per page; which adds up quite fast, when you are referring to legal documents such as property documents, title/deeds, mortgages, contracts or court proceedings registered with the clerk, that can easily be several hundred pages long.

    40. Re: Simple by MickLinux · · Score: 2

      IIRC, by her own statement, Rosa didn't set out to defy authority. She had had an extremely bad day at work, she was tired, and her bad day just ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back.

      You are correct that the whole thing had been building, and finally overflowed.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    41. Re:Simple by Wootery · · Score: 1

      It is, technically. By technically I mean, it was published once, in a 'free' publication, sent to a few libraries, and thus the public access requirement was met. But since you'll never find it there because it isn't indexed, searchable, or in any way known... it's effectively useless.

      That thing about US government works being public domain, should apply to academia. I don't know much about the rule - where's the line drawn? Do NASA lock up their papers?

    42. Re:Simple by richlv · · Score: 1

      i might have misread this :)
      "NIH/ NSF sponsored research published since 2008 is available on Pubmed for free 12 months after it is first published."

      i took as it being available for free for 12 months, and then gone. although i have to wonder why publicly financed research is still paywalled for a year then

      --
      Rich
    43. Re:Simple by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      As learned from the traditional book/eBook publisher, the biggest cost of publication is not the printing, it is the correcting, the formating, and the setting in a correct format. *all* of that is handled during the review, or for the format by the maker of the article.

      Well, I've only had one publisher for a client, so I can't speak for the industry as a whole, but I can tell you that my client has a small army of technical editors in addition to journal editors. I can't really tell you what they do because I have no involvement with that side of the business, but I'm told they keep very busy. They get submissions from all over the world, they have a huge style guide, etc.

      Like I said before, the cost to publish an article with them for open access is below what it would cost to publish in an open access journal. They're not gouging.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    44. Re:Simple by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      That's what Aaron Swartz gave his life for.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    45. Re:Simple by SJester · · Score: 1

      It's a good question and I can answer it easily. I'm a researcher and we are in competition like any other field. Grants are scarce and a project can take two to five years in my field. As the project progresses along its arc, smaller discoveries and milestones are parsed and published. I'd love to share my day-to-day progress with the world, but I'm constrained by practicality and the 12-month delay reflects that. If I'm four years into a project and I've shared every data point, a rival lab can spend a bit more and scoop my conclusion a couple of months before I'm ready. They get articles, citations, credit, and better access to funding while I've spend four years raising a cuckoo's egg. The twelve month delay is nuanced depending on the field, grant, and provider (NSF has similar guidelines.) Essentially I need to release results and supporting data earlier in the process, but I don't need to reveal ongoing investigation or novel methods at that moment. In industry this would be called a proprietary process and kept secret forever, but because of public funding it is only proprietary for a year to give researchers at least a chance to leverage their new knowledge. This is a good thing, it rewards achievers and protects against predation.

    46. Re:Simple by SJester · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear, the delay idea extends into much more than publication. The blurb quoted allows journals to thrive by charging for access to recent research. But the delay in general is intended to fine-tune the need for sharing and public service with the need to frankly, stay in business and profit from my efforts.

    47. Re:Simple by SJester · · Score: 1

      Weirdly, after the initial effort to digitize the document (which was submitted and edited for the journal electronically in the first place)... after that initial effort they don't amortize their digitizing costs over subsequent customers by sending them the same PDF they so painstakingly prepared, but still charge that full price for their initial effort. Almost as if they were price gouging after all.

    48. Re:Simple by richlv · · Score: 1

      wouldn't 'rival labs' get access to those journals anyway, if they are ready to spend more ?

      --
      Rich
    49. Re:Simple by pepty · · Score: 1

      I can see how a 12 month delay helps for protecting scientists from being scooped based on unpublished data they are required to disclose, but their competitors see everything that is published the day that it is published. The 12 month rule for journal articles and published supporting material only protects the publishers.

    50. Re:Simple by bbsalem · · Score: 1

      So, Simple, explain what justified those fees in some detail, please?

      I would think that what plos.org gets to charge is because of assymetry of information in a market transaction, and because they have a captive market, rather than any justification they can give. I wouldn't surprise me at all, if the number is plucked out of the air, and no-one has bothered to challenge them on it.

      This is much like the problem with single payer insurance and why it is so out of control, if it comes out of your institution's packet and not yours, you tend to let it slide, but as soon as you have to fork up the fee, that is a different matter. BTW, I think paywalls are going to die, and not because of public funding, but because researchers will need to self publish unreviewed versions of their work to get it noticed, and as a public service. If peer review is to be so valued, it has to be made available outside of journal paywalls. For some journals, you can't even read the abstract without paying.

    51. Re:Simple by toppavak · · Score: 1

      PLoS is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit and discloses their finances in detail as required by the IRS. There are also links to detailed financial statements for the last 2 fiscal years which are audited by a 3rd party.

    52. Re:Simple by bbsalem · · Score: 1

      Yes, of course, canned PR response, if you don't mind me saying. You haven't said one thing in support of what they charge, not one word of justification. This sound's like the same problem I'd have if my doctor charged $4,000 for an office visit and out patient treatment and I wanted to know how he could charge so much for something that may have resulted in me wearing a Band Aid for a day. I am unconvinced of anything.

  2. NIH has addressed this by TXISDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    NIH funded research must be put into PubMed Central, the NIH public portal, within 12 months of publishing in a journal.

    --
    Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
    1. Re:NIH has addressed this by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      I don't know the NSF's exact rule, but for the last few years every grant proposal has been required to include a Data Dissemination Plan.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:NIH has addressed this by nbauman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's right. The journal that Cortney Grove gave as an example, Topics in Language Disorders http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/pages/default.aspx , does provide free access to papers funded by NIH, Wellcome Trust and Howard Hughes http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/_layouts/oaks.journals/nih.aspx

      I feel for her. I've been in the same situation as her and I've made the same arguments. Years ago it was even worse.

      That said, I think she's exaggerating the situation somewhat. I think she should have a talk with a good reference librarian in her field.

      (I do similar research, not in speech pathology but often in visual pathology, orthopedic handicaps, etc. She may have different needs, but I track down a lot of papers, with varying degrees of success.)

      You might want to have access to 100 journals, but nobody reads 100 journals cover to cover. I read a half dozen core journals every week, and I got access to a good database and a few journals through a couple of professional organizations. The New York Public Library has a few good databases online free to its cardholders, and the EBSCO Academic (or whatever they call it) has some good journals too. Every week or so I come across a journal that isn't included, so I email the author, or ask my friends. It used to be easy to get into an academic library, but now that universities are monetizing, it's getting difficult (but not impossible). The public library has all kinds of arrangements for ordering papers from other libraries.

      I think I know what Grove is doing. She's reading journal articles, looking at 200 footnotes, and she wants to read the ones that look interesting. I've done it myself. It's the sign (or maybe the vice) of a good scholar.

      Just to get an idea of the kind of articles we're talking about, here's one of the free articles in
      http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/Fulltext/2013/01000/Morphological_Awareness_Intervention_in_School_Age.4.aspx?WT.mc_id=HPxADx20100319xMP

      But there's a lot of redundancy. I used to collect a dozen articles, read them, and they all seemed to be saying about the same thing. A review article in the New England Journal of Medicine is about the same as a review article in The Lancet. If you've read one, you don't have to read the other (or the other six). If you can't read it in Topics in Language Disorders, you can probably read it in another dozen journals.

      So (since she's not doing research in an academic institution) she probably doesn't need 100 articles. She needs a professor or librarian or somebody to steer her through the literature and give her a half dozen articles that she should read.

      It's also an exaggeration to say that her clients won't get the benefit of the latest research. A practicing clinical speech therapist doesn't have to follow the basic research and theoretical arguments in the academic journals (although it's nice, and it's the sign of a good practitioner). You should be treating people according to consensus statements and guidelines. A lot of the latest stuff turns out to be wrong.

      You should find everything you need for clinical practice in a half a dozen core journals and a few professional meetings. If you want to be up to date, you have to take continuing education -- no way out of it. And the people who give continuing education courses can guide you through the literature.

      But if she takes the current research that seriously, she should have some academic affiliation, which would also give her library access. Admittedly, some charge exorbitant fees. But some universities used to give free library access to their alumnae, and even if they do charge

    3. Re:NIH has addressed this by Theleton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That said, I think she's exaggerating the situation somewhat. I think she should have a talk with a good reference librarian in her field.

      There's another approach as well, though it's probably more for researchers than practitioners: just ask the authors to send you a copy of the article. It's not like they get royalties from the publisher, so they don't care whether you pay or not. They just want to get their research out there. Plus, every researcher who reads it is someone who might cite it, which they do care about.

    4. Re:NIH has addressed this by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Most conferences and journals that I've sent work to allow the author to put the pre-print on their own web site. These doesn't have spelling corrections or the journal's formatting, but they have all of the content. It always annoys me when academics don't take advantage of this. I'm not sure if it's the same in medicine, but since it's often the same publishers I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:NIH has addressed this by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2

      That's right. The journal that Cortney Grove gave as an example, Topics in Language Disorders http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/pages/default.aspx , does provide free access to papers funded by NIH, Wellcome Trust and Howard Hughes http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/_layouts/oaks.journals/nih.aspx

      Nope. Doesn't appear to.

      Here's an example paper which I picked at random from the journal : Differentiating Speech Delay From Disorder: Does it Matter?. There's a paywall on the journal site with a $30 fee.

      And here's the result of a search on PubMed for the same paper. I'm danmed if I can find it there.

      Perhaps this is due to my search coming from outside the US, but I doubt it. I don't think the papers are being made available, or at least, they are being made less accessable than the paywalled versions.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    6. Re:NIH has addressed this by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      In Canada you only have to go to a library and you have access to anything that any library in the country (and some outside it) have. It doesn't have to be a big library either. The library in my home town of 800 people is hooked into the interlibrary loan system and I used it when I was in high school (decades ago) to get papers and books for science fair projects. It takes a little more organization than clicking through papers Wikipedia style, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and it's the way everyone used to do it.

      Your point about clinicians applying the latest stuff from the literature is important. Most clinicians are not trained to do research, or to evaluate it. Lots of papers are wrong (most, according to some very smart statisticians). Patients outside of proper clinical trials (they can be small, but they must be organized properly, scientifically and ethically) should be treated according to the consensus standard of care, not from the latest thing the clinician dug up in Homeopathy or The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine.

    7. Re:NIH has addressed this by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Most academics don't have the time or knowledge to maintain a web site. But they're happy to send you things when you e-mail and ask. I've gotten a lot of e-mails from people interested in a couple of papers. It's great to see people interested and the contacts have led to some good discussions, let me see my work being applied in completely new ways in very different fields, and even a few improvements that were or will be contributed back to the publicly available code.

      Medical field journals usually don't have a problem with publishing preprints, although many engineering journals make you sign over the copyright. I've never pursued the matter to find out if they're serious about that, but the legalese is there.

    8. Re:NIH has addressed this by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      Even when you have to sign over the copyrights, they almost always grant you the right to give out copies to anyone who asks, as long as you only do it on an individual basis, not in bulk. Anyway, that's been true for every journal I've ever published in.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    9. Re:NIH has addressed this by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      True. The OP was talking about posting on a web page though. Even if you do sign over copyright the standard practice of most publishers may be to ignore personal web pages, so long as it's not too blatant, but it's not fun to be the one the publishing industry decides to make an example of (cough) Swartz (cough).

    10. Re:NIH has addressed this by nbauman · · Score: 1

      PubMed doesn't index all journals. They don't index Topics in Language Disorders. (You can get the index list of PubMed titles in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/advanced ).

      Here's a list of free articles in Topics in Language Disorders.
      http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/pages/viewallmostpopulararticles.aspx?WT.mc_id=HPxADx20100319xMP

      It is annoying. Some of the interesting ones are free, but some of the interesting ones are not.

      I agree with you, of course. Knowledge should be free. Of course, there's the question of who's going to pay for it. It looks like the easy days for the commercial academic publishers are over.

    11. Re:NIH has addressed this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some states (maybe most or all?), you can go to your regional state university library. As a state citizen (and taxpayer), you have access to the library resources and probably can even get a library card. The library has access to many journals (you can figure out which ones from the online catalog). Look up the articles you are interested in and save them or print them. Alternately, you may be able to access the articles through the interlibrary loan at your local library.

    12. Re:NIH has addressed this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your random example proves nothing. Firstly, I searched for the same article through Google Scholar. It came up with one link to access a free copy:

      http://alliedhealth.ceconnection.com/ah/files/TLD0411A-1337959821312.pdf

      According to the article, the author is from the UK, and the study was funded by the Australian Government:

      "Author Affiliation: Department of Language and Communication Sciences, City University, London, United Kingdom.
      The study reported was funded by the Australian Research Council Discovery Grants Scheme."

      It doesn't fall under any of the 'free access' mandates of NIH, Wellcome Trust and Howard Hughes. Please, try again with a better example.

    13. Re:NIH has addressed this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PubMed doesn't index the journal "Topics in Language Disorders". However, the following information is at the bottom of the Instructions for authors page,
      http://journals.lww.com/topicsinlanguagedisorders/Pages/InstructionsforAuthors.aspx

      "Compliance with NIH and other research funding agency accessibility requirements
      A number of research funding agencies now require or request authors to submit a copy of the article post-acceptance (i.e., the article after peer review and acceptance but not the final published article) to a repository that is accessible online by all without charge. As a service to our authors, LWW will identify to the National Library of Medicine (NLM) articles that require deposit and will transmit the post-acceptance version of an article (but not the final typeset version) based on research funded in whole or in part by the National Institutes of Health, Wellcome Trust, Howard Hughes Medical Institute, or other funding agencies to PubMed Central. The revised Copyright Transfer Agreement provides the mechanism for requesting this service. "

      Searching for ' "topics in language disorders" ' on the PubMed search page gives 11 results, all free via PMC.

  3. Corporations by cphilo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The United States has become a nation of public financing and private profits.

    1. Re:Corporations by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      I was going to post, without citation, quotes of Andrew Ryan. Then I thought, "That is exactly what the parasite wants of me."

      So I wait, to see which way the wind is blowing, and which side my bread is buttered on.

  4. Ever hear of the university library? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A good science/engineering university library subscribes to hundreds of technical journals and keeps them in stacks going back decades.

    Oh, but who has time to go there, find a place to park and then run around the stacks...?

    Sometimes, you have to make sacrifices for your career instead of always whining about how things should be made better just for you. The journals charge money because they incur substantial expenses for providing an important service.

    1. Re:Ever hear of the university library? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Informative

      A good science/engineering university library subscribes to hundreds of technical journals and keeps them in stacks going back decades.

      Lots of universities simply can't afford all the journals they ought to have.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:Ever hear of the university library? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's horribly inefficient. you can't tell from an abstract whether a paper will be valuable. and alumni don't necessarily live in the same city as their alma mater. you can't just walk into stacks at the universities I have visited

    3. Re:Ever hear of the university library? by nbauman · · Score: 2, Informative

      A good science/engineering university library subscribes to hundreds of technical journals and keeps them in stacks going back decades.

      Oh, but who has time to go there, find a place to park and then run around the stacks...?

      Sometimes, you have to make sacrifices for your career instead of always whining about how things should be made better just for you. The journals charge money because they incur substantial expenses for providing an important service.

      I went through that bullshit of trying to get access to university libraries.

      First of all (at least in New York City), university libraries aren't open to the public. They charge their own students a $2,000 library fee so they don't let outsiders in for free.

      Second, even when I did pull strings to get special accommodations to use a library on a guest basis, it was basically a day's work to look things up in the stacks when everybody else is getting them in 5 minutes online (as I do now with access to some academic databases).

      Sometimes you have to find out what's going on in reality before you give sermons accusing people of "whining" when they're raising legitimate questions about what's being done with their tax money.

      Your misinformation about journals is addressed here by somebody else.

    4. Re:Ever hear of the university library? by ubuwalker31 · · Score: 1

      university libraries aren't open to the public.

      I'd start with New York City's public library system. Find a librarian to help you get access to the various electronic databases, which includes Academic Search Premier and a bunch of others. If you need a specific journal article, print out the abstract or citation that you found on line, and bring it with you to the library. You can often find similar and/or more up to date articles for free with the help of the librarian. If access to the article isn't available through the public library, you might be able to get METRO access to a university library or private special collection: http://metro.org/referral-cards/. A librarian could also try to ILL you a copy of the article, but it takes some time.

      Public university libraries are almost always open to the public...that's SUNY and CUNY. If you are lucky, you can get a daily guest password for the computer databases, but YMMV. I'd call around to a number of public universities and ask about guest policies.

    5. Re:Ever hear of the university library? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes. The METRO cards. It worked, but I had to go to the NYPL in person to fill out the card, and then take the card to the cooperating library (usually Columbia U. medical library) and use their collection. Technically I was supposed to only read a maximum of four journals or something, but once I got in to the library I could use the stacks just like any other reader.

      Actually the public university libraries aren't always open to the public, even though they're paid for by public taxes. I used to live around the block from John Jay College, which had a pretty good collection of core science journals and an excellent collection of criminal justice publications. I used to use their library regularly, but then their new librarian decided to end public access. It was like going blind.

      The bottom line is that you can get a lot of journals with some effort, but you can't get them all and sometimes by the time you get the journal through ILL your article is already written. One librarian told me, "You can get it elsewhere. You only want to use our library for convenience." Yeah, it is convenience. I can get a lot more work done in a library that closes at 11pm every night like a university library, than I can at a public library that closes at 6pm or 8pm. http://www.nypl.org/locations/sibl . It often makes the difference between getting the job done and not getting it done at all.

      Another problem with the public library is that some publishers charge libraries for online access based on their number of clients. For university libraries, that's the number of students and faculty, but for public libraries, as one public librarian told me, some publishers count the entire population of New York as their clients. That's why you can't get the online-only material in the New England Journal of Medicine. The director of the NYPL made this brilliant move to the digital library, but many of the digital subscriptions are prohibitively expensive. The last time I went to SIBL, I needed to use Science Citation Index, but they didn't have it because it was too expensive. In some ways they had better collections before computers.

      The problem is, this isn't the digital library of the future that they promised us 50 years ago. like Vannevar Bush's memex. When I read about the libraries of the future, I always wondered, "Who's going to pay for all this?" and I assumed that the public libraries would still be there. Now the public libraries have gone through such cutbacks that you can't use them for research the way you used to. They've suffered from this anti-tax and anti-government movement.

      We have a digital divide between the people who have access to information and the people who don't. Do you have a medical question? If you're in the digital underclass, you can curry together an answer from Wikipedia and Medscape, and a million hits from sites that are trying to sell you something. Or you can do what I do, and what the medical librarians recommended to me, which is to start with review articles in the major journals -- New England Journal of Medicine, JAMA, and Lancet. It's a lot easier and more reliable to just go to the reliable sources in the first place.

      Do you want to live in a country where all people have access to academic-quality public libraries, as we used to have until the cutbacks of the 1970s? Or do you want people to live in ignorance? To most of us here the answer is obvious, but there are people out there who just want to cut taxes.

  5. Could US Attorney Carmen Ortiz Help Her? by theodp · · Score: 1, Insightful

    JSTOR an Entitlement For US DoJ's Ortiz & Holder: "If Aaron Swartz downloaded JSTOR documents without paying for them, it would presumably be considered a crime by the USDOJ. But if U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz or U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder did the same? Rather than a crime, it would be considered their entitlement, a perk of an elite education that's paid for by their alma maters."

    1. Re:Could US Attorney Carmen Ortiz Help Her? by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      No, no, no: Swartz was able to download JSTOR articles at all because, as a research fellow at MIT, he had the exact same kind of access agreement. All he did was scrape stuff from the JSTOR site using that access. The submitter was wrong to write that portion of the summary.

      ...and at any rate, (most) NIH-funded research must become publicly accessible via PubMed Central within 12 months of publication, so this, too, is something of a non-story. Paywalls aren't quite as thorough (or elite) as we sometimes think.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    2. Re:Could US Attorney Carmen Ortiz Help Her? by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      ...ah, snap. Still, Ortiz and Holder wouldn't be any better off than Swartz doing the same via Harvard. The key point is that he had legitimate access.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    3. Re:Could US Attorney Carmen Ortiz Help Her? by mysidia · · Score: 3, Informative

      Under MIT's Open Campus Policy, the library he was at, and all other places on campus are open to the public.

      So the argument of trespass is suspect at best.

    4. Re:Could US Attorney Carmen Ortiz Help Her? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Swartz wasn't a research fellow at MIT. He was a research fellow at Harvard: MIT allows on-campus to Harvard, and vice versa. He should have been doing this from his *own office at Harvard*, where he did have unfettered access to JSTOR. Instead, he chose to attach his disk drives and laptop in an MIT wiring closet, screw with MIT's access to JSTOR, and get MIT gut off repeatedly from JSTOR while he stroked his throbbing ego, hoping to spurt JSTOR's bodily fluids all over the Internet when he was ready.

      MIT got screwed coming and going in this mess: Harvard are the fools who hired him.

  6. I believe the intent... by tlambert · · Score: 4, Informative

    I believe the intent... is that all healthcare practitioners do not have private practices, but are instead employed by large healthcare conglomerates like Connecticut Life, United Healthcare, etc., and that those conglomerates have online access to the journals from their networks.

    As long as you do not hang out your own shingle, and remain a wage-slave to a large corporation, you will have no problem accessing the necessary publications.

    1. Re:I believe the intent... by fermion · · Score: 1
      This is certainly hyperbole. Conglomerates are not the only ones with libraries. Many doctors are affiliated with universities which also have libraries.They could hire a student part time with the explicit intent of raiding the library. When I was a student I would do this. In most cases if a library does not have the article, ILL will get it.

      In any case the example used in the submission is silly. The speech pathologists is complaining that the articles to do the job costs $1000. I make less than a speech pathologist and I easily spend $1000 a year making sure that I am up to date so that I can keep my job. It is like a few percent of my income. Expenses have to be put in context. If you are billing $100 a patient to medicare, and seeing 10-15 patients a day, it is out of line to expect some of that to be used for professional development?

      That is not to say that journal costs are getting out of line. If some one is doing real science, and is trying to do so on a budget, journal costs can get out of line. Preprint federally funded research should be available online for little or not cost. Everything possible should be done to reduce the costs of professional journals to libraries. There are many things that can and should be done.

      But an alleged professional whining that they get charged for a valuable product when they charge large amounts for their services, that is just silly.

      A better example, and real problem, are those working in less developed countries in which the resources are actually taxed, and science, even medicine, is extremely strained because in some cases journal costs do actually provide a significant road block to possible innovation.In some cases journals are given free or at greatly reduced costs to those countries. Even so, the problems is not going to fixed until we have free rapid communications of peer reviewed articles.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:I believe the intent... by tlambert · · Score: 1

      In any case the example used in the submission is silly. The speech pathologists is complaining that the articles to do the job costs $1000. I make less than a speech pathologist and I easily spend $1000 a year making sure that I am up to date so that I can keep my job. It is like a few percent of my income. Expenses have to be put in context. If you are billing $100 a patient to medicare, and seeing 10-15 patients a day, it is out of line to expect some of that to be used for professional development?

      Depends. What if she only wants to access articles which are applicable to her private practice, and which don't suck? If the article, which she can't read until she pays for it, fails to meet either of those criteria, does she get a refund?

      Preprint federally funded research should be available online for little or not cost.

      No cost; the cost has already been borne by the tax paying public who paid for the research; what's happening with these journals is that the researcher is double-dipping: once at the public trough, and a second time at the journal trough.

      But an alleged professional whining that they get charged for a valuable product when they charge large amounts for their services, that is just silly.

      As is calling publicly funded research a "product" which can be sold for money beyond the public funding which has already funded the science and the creation of the article describing it. Again: double dipping. This is in effect defrauding of the public paying for the research.

      A better example, and real problem, are those working in less developed countries in which the resources are actually taxed, and science, even medicine, is extremely strained because in some cases journal costs do actually provide a significant road block to possible innovation.

      Here we disagree. Why should the countries willing to bear the costs of the research benefit for free the countries who are too busy oppressing their own people for all but the oppressors to benefit from said research?

      Do you think there will be a sudden influx of HIV drugs in Haiti or general medical care in Angola, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Côte d'Ivoire, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Republic of Congo, or Zimbabwe for the people enslaved to mine conflict diamonds, or food in Ethiopia, where the corrupt government would rather let food rot on the docks than go to the majority of the countries people who oppose those governments?

      Better that the oppressors not get as good medical care, the better that they die out faster, and that we embargo everything to those countries that the government embargos from their opposition.

    3. Re:I believe the intent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Preprint federally funded research should be available online for little or not cost.

      No cost; the cost has already been borne by the tax paying public who paid for the research; what's happening with these journals is that the researcher is double-dipping: once at the public trough, and a second time at the journal trough.

      NIH funded publications are all available at no cost, no more than 1 year after initial publication at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/

      Healthcare is a conservative field that does not change the standards of care rapidly (for good reason). For a provider to flit from new idea to newest idea every four weeks is irresponsible.

      But an alleged professional whining that they get charged for a valuable product when they charge large amounts for their services, that is just silly.

      As is calling publicly funded research a "product" which can be sold for money beyond the public funding which has already funded the science and the creation of the article describing it. Again: double dipping. This is in effect defrauding of the public paying for the research.

      What is really silly is an alleged professional being unaware of the existence of PubMed Central or disingenuously pretending that the fastest way to get affordable access to current research is to wait 8 years for it to show up in a $200 textbook. Don't get me wrong: the current publishing infrastructure is a hold-over from bygone days of paper, and the academic world would do well for the journals to separate from their historical publishers, but NIH has done a great job of opening access to federally funded biomedical research. Many of the journals have even taken the further step of opening their whole archives (although a depressing number of them still paywall anything older than 1997).

  7. Libraries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the article, Cortney Grove says, "Some people told me to go to the local medical school library and download the articles from there. I don't know if it's feasible for me to go to a library of a school I don't go to!"

    Instead of moaning and groaning, why doesn't Ms Grove find out? Ten minutes on the phone should allow her to determine whether it's feasible to go to a library of a school in which she isn't enrolled.

    1. Re:Libraries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I just checked worldcat.org. There are at least six libraries in the Chicago area with subscriptions to Topics in Language Disorders, one of the publications to which Ms. Grove wants access. I suggest she get on the phone, find out which libraries she can access, then spend a Saturday morning in one of those libraries.

    2. Re:Libraries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      3rd parties can sign up for library card at a university. You get almost all the journals at a tiny fraction of the cost - the price of library card.

      About photocopying, who cares? Either read the paper on site (if not available in electronic format), or just photograph it with your phone or something then turn that into PDF. Or take notes.

    3. Re:Libraries by nbauman · · Score: 4, Informative

      That should have been the entire article right there.

      Almost all specialty libraries I've heard of offer visitor access or special (paid) access to professionals in affiliated fields.
      It sounds like this Doctor didn't put a lot of effort into trying to find a way around the pay wall.

      I just checked the websites of Medical School libraries in my State and neighboring States,
      they almost all have a way for people unaffiliated with the school to gain onsite access. /Though one requires an annual membership and charges extortionist prices for photocopying articles.

      I've been through that in New York City. Most of the medical school libraries in Manhattan don't allow public access. One of them offered to let me use their library for about $2,000 a year. It's a real problem.

      If you actually tried to do it, rather than just looking at their web site, I think you'd find it was difficult to impossible. Unless you happened to find a small friendly library that had everything you needed.

  8. join a university by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Become a research partner with a university find a collaborator or take a class and you'll have access to all those papers at a reduced price.

  9. What Happened? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did most of the punctuation get stuck behind a paywall?

  10. Re:Useful information sometimes costs money by theodp · · Score: 2

    She does explain that the problem is there's no guarantee that any of this information will be useful ("Topics in Language Disorders, for example, has a $122 subscription for four issues. But there's no guarantee that the articles I'll get in the four issues next year will be useful for me-and that's just one journal!"), and goes on to suggest she'd consider shelling out thousands for unfettered access, but that's not an option ("Even if I had to pay an acceptable yearly fee-if for $300 a month I could access everything-that would be better than how it is today).

  11. Having worked for a Springer journal, by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Informative

    as a managing editor, I can tell you that they do not incur substantial expenses, and that academics provide the important parts of the service, essentially for free in the cases of most journals. It's not like putting out a magazine; we didn't even have copy or layout editors for our journal, the most inexpensive components of editorial labor. It paid the university department that hosted the journal a mere thousands (single digits) per year. There were two "paid" staffers—myself and one other person, The rest of the "editorial board" consisted of faculty of our and another several universities doing the work for free, under the auspices of the "professional duties" of the academics involved (not as paid by Springer, as paid by their respective institutions). Peer reviewers—free. Editorial labor (copy, layout to production files according to specs, submissions queue, even rough line editing, style work)—graduate students looking for a title to add to their emerging CVs.

    Essentially Springer's total cost for putting out the journal amounted to the several thousand (again, single digit thousands, split between myself and one other individual) that they (usually belatedly) paid our department annually for the entire journal in its substance, plus printing/distribution (a pittance given the circulation size of academic journals and the cost per print subscription—not to mention the increasing number of electronic-only subscriptions). They had one liason that handled our entire "account," and the level of labor involved allowed this person to be "over" several _dozen_ journals as just a single person. That's as much a labor footprint, in its entirety, as our journal actually had inside the "publisher."

    And for this, they held onto the reprint/reuse rights with an iron fist, requiring even authors and PIs to pay $$$ to post significant excerpts on their own blogs.

    Seeing the direction the wind has been blowing over the last half-decade, the department decided (and rightfully so) that it's basically a scam, that academic publishing as we know it need not exist any longer, and wound down both the print journal and the relationship with Springer several years ago, instead self-publishing the journal (which is easy these days) to much higher revenue for the department, and the ability to sensibly manage rights in the interest of academic production and values, rather than in the interest of Springer's oinking at the trough on the backs of academics.

    Oh, and many university libraries (particularly in urban areas) do not admit just anyone off the street; you must generally hold an ID that grants access to the library (often student or faculty, plus a paid option for the general public, either monthly or annually, that can vary from somewhat affordable to somewhat expensive). Not to mention that for many people, yes, it is a significant professional hardship to lose a day or two of work to be trekking into foreign territory and sitting amongst the stacks—and that this hardship is made much more irritable by the fact that the very same articles are sitting there online, in 2013, yet can't be accessed at reasonable cost.

    As an academic, I have the same frustration. We bemoan the state of science in this society, yet under the existing publishing model we essentially insure that only a rarefied few scientists and the very wealthy elite have access to science at all. $30-$60 is not a small amount for the average person—and that is the cost to read _one_ article, usually very narrowly focused, and of unclear utility until they've already paid the money, that is borderline unreadable for the layperson (or for the magazine author hoping to make sense of science _for_ the layperson) anyway. Why, exactly, would we expect anyone to know any science at all beyond university walls, under this arrangement?

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your insight. As a scientist myself, I would like to see the scientific societies being more active in promoting open access publishing. There are some like the American Chemical Society and the British Institute of Physics who are providing credible alternatives to the journal robber barons, but more is needed from the other side. If some of the major scientific societies started asking their members to publish in recommended open access journals (there are a lot of junk journals out there right now and it takes some effort to figure out if a journal is at all respectable), while at the same time asking them to refuse to referee for paid journals, then this publishing revolution would very quickly come to a satisfying conclusion.

    2. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by Theleton · · Score: 1

      Having worked for a Springer journal as a managing editor, I can tell you that they do not incur substantial expense

      Mark Lieberman, a linguist and advocate for open access publishing, disagrees:

      There are some non-trivial anti-open-access arguments. For example, there are non-zero costs associated with editing and managing a journal, which are on the order of $1,000 per published paper.
      ...
      I've gotten versions of this order-of-magnitude number from several different types of sources, ranging from Matt Cockerill at BioMedCentral to Steven Bird at ACL. There remains a fair amount of labor beyond basic editorial and refereeing activities: copy editing, format hacking, permissions clearance, web site administration, bookkeeping, general secretarial and administrative functions. If you can get all of that done by volunteers -- or if you don't do it at all -- then the costs obviously go down. But note that we're not talking about a lot of money -- for a small journal, it's far below the cost of hiring even one professional employee.

      Here's an example where I know some of the details. In 2012, Computational Linguistics published about 24 articles -- at $1000 each, that would be $24,000. In fact, through 2010 the ACL paid MIT Press $45-50k per year for copyediting, proofreading, typesetting, web hosting, marketing, handling of rights & permissions. In 2011, MIT Press introduced a LaTeX-aware copy editor, and reduced their changes to about $28k/year. In addition to these costs, there used to be a part time editorial assistant, typically a grad student, who was paid $15k/year. I believe that in 2011 that position was eliminated in favor of the OJS web-based manuscript management system; but not all journals can count on their editor being able or willing to install and maintain such a software package on a volunteer basis. So the out-of-pocket costs in 2012 were either $28k or $43k, which in either case is greater than 24*$1k. (In fact, CL does not charge author fees, but rather funds the enterprise from membership dues.)

      24 articles/year seems like a small number to me, but even a journal that published ten times that number of articles would still end up with costs of $100/article under this system. You don't need to charge a lot per download to pay for that (assuming >1 person wants to read each article), but if you give them away for free you need to find the money somewhere else.

    3. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by dstates · · Score: 2

      A "just price" might be acceptable, but the publishers have abused the market bundling thousands of journals together into packages for which they charge libraries millions of dollars a year and forbid the librarians from disclosing how much they paid. Charging $40+ per article when the reader cannot even determine in advance whether it will be a useful article and has no way to get their money back if it is not is also not a solution.

      --
      Statesman
    4. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by Antonovich · · Score: 1

      Back in the 90s I was horrified to learn from a professor who was on an editorial board that he got no money from the publisher. He only recompense for his work was a copy of the journal - our university didn't even get a free copy, even though he obviously spent university time on it. Our university, like so many others, had serious budget problems getting all the various required journals and that frustrated me - after all, what value is being brought by the publishers? Some journals even make you pay to have articles published!!! As a former managing editor, you have confirmed all my suspicions and confirmed that this continues.

      Fast-forward to 2013. There is absolutely no reason for this to continue, yet it does. With a relatively simple organisational structure, the current amount spent from one or two universities could provide all the funding necessary for a highly professional meta-organisation that publishes everything for free online, with a cost+ small% button to have journals actually delivered. The small/on-demand print run problem has been solved for a while now, and anything at scale (i.e., lots of journals being done at the same place) would make costs very reasonable.

      So what are the elements that need to be reproduced in order to serve the current filtering function that journals currently perform? The key element seems to be reputation. To be worth reading and worth publishing in, a journal needs the right people reviewing articles and the right people writing them. These services are currently being provided FREE by academics, so there is clearly room to move here. Everything else is an implementation detail. While there is a little bit of a chicken-and-egg problem, a few good motivators with reasonable connections could get the ball rolling and then the problem is effectively solved.

      So what might this look like? An organisational structure with proposed, incubating and top-level journals, depending on a number of criteria, like the number of subscribers, number of reviewers, "quality" of the editorial board, etc. These sorts of "points" systems exist in some countries today for deciding how much research funding a university gets so what works (and what doesn't), while controversial, is pretty well understood (or at least debated). Don't like how top-level journal X is run by the editorial board? Gather 10 (or 5 or 20) like-minded university researchers, form and editorial board and create a project. There is no reason for there not to be 2, or even 50 top-level journals dealing with subject X. There is choice now. You just need to fulfil a certain number of (changeable) criteria and you become a top-level journal. There will obviously be differences in prestige between top-level journals but there is now too - no problem here.

      But how do we stop the riff-raff from submitting and wasting highly valuable reviewer time? There are internationally recognised lists of tertiary institutions, and one of these could easily be used to *start* with. Any full-time academic with one of these could sign their university up, and act as a reputation guarantor. As things evolve, university departments would almost certainly get involved and that is probably a good thing but the key is to have some reasonable filtering to start with. After that, any new contributing member to a journal needs to have at least N sponsors before being able to submit an article for review. You might like to require all new submitters to be sponsored by someone on the editorial board, and that could even be one of the criteria for a journal to become a top-level journal. Complaints could be submitted to the editorial board (or a rep), and people or institutions could be banned (temporarily) or sponsorship rights revoked (temporarily) by editorial board vote. While some over-arching criteria would be useful for distinguising top-level from other journals, after things got moving individual journals could set a lot of their own. There could even be privileged "categories" formed - get a group of 10 (o

    5. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      I know a number of freelance copyeditors who will do a good job on a scientific paper and charge a few tens of dollars. It's a pretty cutthroat market, and you can probably find cheaper ones, but these are ones that I've worked with and would recommend. $28k for 24 papers works out at over $1100 per paper - I can get entire books copyedited by very competent people for less than that. Actually, the same is true for layout. For a lot of journals, you just use an existing LaTeX template and don't do any more layout. The ones that do more advanced compositing are typically funded elsewhere (e.g. conference fees).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not as complicated as all that. Many of the top journals are run by professional societies by agreement with a publisher. That is, the society appoints most of the editorial staff and manages manuscripts through the review process, then hands the final, accepted manuscript off to a separate publisher. One of the attractions of the publishers is a well-developed, online infrastructure for helping manage the review process, but these are often subcontracted (eg, Wiley uses ScholarOne from Thomson Reuters). It should be relatively easy for these non-profit professional societies to split with their historical publishers and either go online-only or engage a lulu-like self publisher for their limited circulation. The NLM will even host all of the content, so the journals don't even need to figure out how to run a server farm or provide bandwidth.

    7. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that for many people, yes, it is a significant professional hardship to lose a day or two of work to be trekking into foreign territory and sitting amongst the stacksâ"and that this hardship is made much more irritable by the fact that the very same articles are sitting there online, in 2013, yet can't be accessed at reasonable cost.

      Imagine the horror of having to look things up in a card catalog. Research requires work. There shouldn't be an expectation of entitlement that everything is available with the twitch of a finger. The only thing to be concerned about is the trend toward tossing out old copies of journals in favor of electronic versions restricted to students and faculty.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    8. Re:Having worked for a Springer journal, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The choice here isn't between a day or two of hunting down papers versus a day or two of sitting on our arses. The choice is between a day or two of hunting down papers versus a day or two of actual productive research. Laziness and entitlement have nothing to do with it, as you would have realised if you'd thought about it for more than ten seconds.

    9. Re: Having worked for a Springer journal, by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      I did all that while copyediting for a publisher, order of magnitude 2000 pp/year, start to finish plus artwork, page layout, proofing problems, sometimes ghostwriting, for a total of about $50k. A typical journal article is 12 pages, so you're looking at the equivalent of 166 articles for $300 each. Maybe I was way underpaid?

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  12. Two further things— by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    "irritating," not "irritable," my apologies for the misuse of the word (it's late where I am); and I should note that the department had to change the name of the journal and all of its graphics as they brought it entirely in-house and severed the Springer relationship, since Springer held the rights to everything, including all past issues, meaning that the new journal is just that—a clean slate, post-Springer (and good riddance).

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  13. Libraries by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

    Nothing yet. I ended up emailing a professor of mine from school, and I'm waiting to hear back from her, while at the same time asking her, "Is there a more reasonable way for me to do this?"

    Some people told me to go to the local medical school library and download the articles from there. I don't know if it's feasible for me to go to a library of a school I don't go to! And at the moment, I don't really know any students who I could ask.

    That should have been the entire article right there.

    Almost all specialty libraries I've heard of offer visitor access or special (paid) access to professionals in affiliated fields.
    It sounds like this Doctor didn't put a lot of effort into trying to find a way around the pay wall.

    I just checked the websites of Medical School libraries in my State and neighboring States,
    they almost all have a way for people unaffiliated with the school to gain onsite access.
    /Though one requires an annual membership and charges extortionist prices for photocopying articles.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  14. If you don't like the game, change the rules by onyxruby · · Score: 2

    If you don't like the fact that the current journals charge the rates that they do you have to take your research to a new journal that doesn't. When enough people do this the present journals will change their policies or be left out of the market.

    Right now your trying to be the tail that wagged the dog. Stop being the tail and start realizing that there are far more academics than journals and organize a new journal. With the Internet it is absurdly easy to communicate with like kind peers and set up a self publishing site for very little money.

    At some point you have to realize that the journals need the academics more than the academics need the journals. A small number of professional journals are holding up millions of academics. Stop being the tail, start being the dog.

    1. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by paiute · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you don't like the fact that the current journals charge the rates that they do you have to take your research to a new journal that doesn't.

      What is the incentive for me to do this if I am an academic who is trying to get tenure or move to a better position at another university or compete for grants? The major ammunition in the CV of anyone trying to do these things is publications in big name journals.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    2. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      That attitude is why the journals continue to extort large amounts of money. Until academics are willing to put common sense ahead of prestige the problem will continue.

    3. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Who makes the hiring decisions? If it's other academics who also feel the same way about the paid journals.... there's your problem.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Until academics are willing to put common sense ahead of prestige

      Never. Going. To. Happen.

      Academia is a popularity contest. Prestige is the only thing that matters. The only thing. Actual research is a wholly unintended side effect of academia. Only naive fools even attempt real research and inevitably fail. Savvy academics spend entire careers writing literature reviews, in other words republishing others' words. Truly dedicated academics literally resort to literal cocksucking to get ahead.

    5. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by docmordin · · Score: 1

      Actual research is a wholly unintended side effect of academia. Only naive fools even attempt real research and inevitably fail.

      Come tomorrow, I guess I should stop by the Department Chair's office and let him know that he should revoke my endowed scholar position, let alone the positions of my colleagues, as we're all apparently fools.

    6. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have tenure, do you?

    7. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by pepty · · Score: 1

      Until academics are willing to put common sense ahead of prestige

      Never. Going. To. Happen.

      Already.Has.Happened.

      http://thecostofknowledge.com/

      Over 13000 scientists joined a boycott of Elsevier last year. Also back in 2010 the University of California threatened a boycott of Nature journals over their subscription prices and managed to haggle them down.

    8. Re:If you don't like the game, change the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Did you notice the "endowed scholar" bit? Those are generally reserved for full professors, 5+ years past tenure, and provide salary and research funding independent of the grant race. Endowed chairs are for people whom the university's other researchers have identified as productive enough to merit an academic slush fund for research so crazy or revolutionary that no funding agency would support it.

      Look, there are faculty out there who make their names off crappy review papers. Faculty who do little more than republish other people's work, and some of them do rise quite high in the ranks, though not often at research-centric universities. Even into administrative positions like Deans and Provosts. Think of them as fraudsters, if you like.

      Academics are no more naive or stupid than you, though, and most of them recognize the people who are doing fake research. They recognize it so clearly that academic CVs have separate sections for research papers and review papers. When it comes time for those academics to decide who gets research dollars and who doesn't, the assistant professor with a dozen wet-lab research papers is a much more credible candidate than the department chair with 20 review papers, but no research in the past 10 years.

  15. She will have to find out more than this. by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    She will have to find out:

    1) Which libraries have _print_ as opposed to _electronic only_ subscriptions, and
    2) Amongst those that do not (I'm guessing the majority), which allow access to electronic resources by non-students/non-faculty (this kind of access is expressly forbidden, at any cost, by many subscription packages offered to universities).

    Even if she is able to identify a library that offers non-affiliated individuals access, she will have to pony up whatever the cost of access for the public to the library is, and then, at that stage, she will have access to _one_ journal. It is unlikely that all of the resources that she needs are to be found in that _one_ journal, and much more likely that relevant material is published in several or even several dozen journals, in which case all she has to do is grill library personnel for 20-30 minutes with a detailed list in each phone call, and likely pony up the access fees (and the transportation, and the saturday mornings) to jump around from one library to another on a wild goose chase over many weeks to piece together the materials that an academic can assemble over a cup of coffee without leaving their screen. Just who, pray, are the academics producing their research _for_? Surely those who might actually be able to use it practically?

    All of this stuff can technically be accessed from her office, too, in the space of 10 minutes, but for the profit-oriented restrictions (that do not reflect costs, see my previous post) imposed by journal "publishers."

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:She will have to find out more than this. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Does inter-library loan no longer work the way it used to - libraries which don't have access to a journal get a photocopy of a specific article requested delivered from libraries that do?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    2. Re:She will have to find out more than this. by aussersterne · · Score: 2

      I actually don't know. I have the luxury of having institutional access to a full range of print and electronic subscriptions. But even if they do, think about what you're asking a busy professional to do.

      People are suggesting that she should just pony up $thousands annually, that she should dedicate days to travel and research, as apart from patients or family, when there's no necessary technical reason to do so, and now, with ILL, that she should stick to a research project about a case or two for the many weeks that it takes to make ILL work.

      Sure, there's ILL, and it may well work as it used to (though I doubt it for electronic resources, based on the ways that licenses right now are written). But we're asking her to stick to a project for $thousands and $weeks of constant attention. She's a professional. She is busy. And she ought to have access. The point is not to ask, "can it, plausibly, be done?" but rather "what is science for, and is this the way that it ought to work?"

      We made society, as human beings. We can make it better. I'd suggest that this is a case in which it can be made to function much, much better than it currently does. The goal behind having therapists of all stripes is to help people to overcome real problems, not to test the therapists to see whether or not they can navigate arcane social structures and processes. We should make their jobs as easy as possible. Hell, this applies to virtually every job title. Jobs exist for a reason—because there is demand for what they do, because we value it. Why not, then, make the jobs of professionals as plausible and as easy as possible, rather than risking their doing a much worse job simply so that a few corporations that produce little of value (the value in academic publishing is produced by the academics and the researchers, not by the publishers in the era of easy print-on-demand and easy online access) can earn a decent chunk of change.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    3. Re: She will have to find out more than this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Everyone is suggesting EITHER she spend ~1000bux OR get up off her ass and go read a dead tree. She's going to be charging her patients $thouthands (and doesn't mind that she's using old info to do it either), she can do some leg work or spend some cash. I also don't see her mentioning that she's not going to put her paper behind the same paywall either. Bottom line is, 1000bux amortized over a year is nothing for a professional, this is someone being both cheap, lazy, and hardly professional.

    4. Re:She will have to find out more than this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      She will have to find out: Which libraries have _print_ as opposed to _electronic only_ subscriptions,

      That's not a big deal. That information is available in worldcat.org, just a couple of mouse clicks away.

      she has to do is grill library personnel for 20-30 minutes with a detailed list in each phone call

      No, that information is available in worldcat.org too.

    5. Re:She will have to find out more than this. by nmr_andrew · · Score: 1

      She will have to find out:

      1) Which libraries have _print_ as opposed to _electronic only_ subscriptions, and 2) Amongst those that do not (I'm guessing the majority), which allow access to electronic resources by non-students/non-faculty (this kind of access is expressly forbidden, at any cost, by many subscription packages offered to universities).

      Even if she is able to identify a library that offers non-affiliated individuals access, she will have to pony up whatever the cost of access for the public to the library is, and then, at that stage, she will have access to _one_ journal.

      I don't think it would be that difficult. I've spent most of my adult life getting degrees and then working in college/university settings. Most (all?) do restrict off-campus access to their electronic resources to students/faculty, but nearly every university library I've been in allows almost anyone to come in and you can either use their computers or in many cases your own laptop via wifi to access their electronic journals while you're on their network. You can usually buy a copy/print card for about $0.10/page and then print copies for personal use. Most libraries charge nothing, although I think I've seen a model where you can pay something like $10/semester for what amounts to a community access library card.

      Another possibility, while I don't know if it's applicable to the journals being discussed in TFA, is that both places I have degrees from allow alumni free access to scientific literature via JSTOR. Other institutions do the same.

  16. Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progresse by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether or not taxpayer-funded research should be accissible to the taxpayers for FREE is a matter to be acertained, but the fact is that it is no longer possible for anyone, including the professional researchers, to know where to find the result of the various facet of related research on a given field.

    It is as if we are back to the pre-Internet days.

    Before Internet, it was a Herculean task to find out if there had been a research carried out on any particular subject, simply because there was no one central database.

    When Internet first arrived, the situation was greatly improved - although there were still no centralized database for all research results, at the very least we could search for it online.

    Now ?

    Not only the research papers are hidden behind paywalled, most of them don't even appear on search queries anymore.

    Paywall does not only representing GREED that is retarding the progress of the human society, it is actually STRANGLING the progress of scientific research.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  17. make it so, then by rewindustry · · Score: 1
    should it not be as simple as a wiki?

    if we created the space, would academia not use it?

    is it not up to us to resolve this?

    if it worked for wikileaks, why would it not work here?

  18. Elmer Fudd speaks dialect by tepples · · Score: 1

    I don't think of Elmer Fudd as having a speech impediment as much as being a speaker of a nonstandard dialect, one that labializes the /r/ and /l/ sounds. In college, I had a computer science professor from Bulgaria whose /l/ sounded almost like /w/.

    1. Re:Elmer Fudd speaks dialect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be someone from Pernik, or near by.
      There is a relate joke.
              ?
      - (dialect for hlyab is web)
      How do you call a baker in Pernik?
      Web-designer
      ~badkarmadayaccount

    2. Re:Elmer Fudd speaks dialect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid ascii. Run that through translate, you'll get my point.

    3. Re:Elmer Fudd speaks dialect by turgid · · Score: 1

      That's how they speak in Sout-East England. They drink "miwk" and wear "siwk" and play "footbaw."

  19. Who's Johnny? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TFS talks about a Cortney Grove, but who's Johnny?

  20. State + Corporations = Facism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Privatize the profits and socialize the costs. Hey, it worked for Wall street. Do tax payers receive a dividend when bailed out banks turn a profit? Not fucking likely. Do the CEOs have their wages garnisheed for the bailouts on their watch? Again, not fucking likely. Yet these people are still convinced they built the log cabin they were born in.

  21. arXiv is not peer reviewed by tepples · · Score: 2

    should it not be as simple as a wiki?

    There does exist a site for uploading preprints called arXiv. The difference is that preprints aren't peer reviewed and thus aren't quite as citable in publications that strongly prefer "published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy".

    1. Re:arXiv is not peer reviewed by gerddie · · Score: 2

      There does exist a site for uploading preprints called arXiv. The difference is that preprints aren't peer reviewed and thus aren't quite as citable in publications that strongly prefer "published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy".

      Actually, in my experience this is not the problem, you can cite whatever you want. Considering this article, such reputation for fact-checking and accuracy does not really exist anyway (i.e. the higher the ranking of a journal, the higher the probability that articles have to be retracted). The real problem is, articles that do not appear in a journal count less or nothing on the authors curriculum, unless you are a genius like Grisha Perelman, who, AFAIK, published the proof of the Poincare conjecture only on arXiv.

    2. Re:arXiv is not peer reviewed by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what journal you're submitting to, but most of the papers I've submitted have had reviewers comment disdainfully about peer reviewed conference abstract citations, never mind non-peer reviewed sources. A non-peer reviewed reference is useless and will generally be removed. That includes textbooks.

      I once cited one of Fourier's original papers (which I had to find) because a reviewer scoffed at a textbook cite.

    3. Re:arXiv is not peer reviewed by rewindustry · · Score: 1

      spectacular, thank you, may your offspring multiply exponetially. i think "peer reviewed" is an expression about as meaningful as an "organic" sticker. the real reviews, in my experience, happen here, and on wikipedia, etc, where i can join in. a "peerless" resource, thank you again for the pointer.

    4. Re:arXiv is not peer reviewed by tepples · · Score: 1

      publications that strongly prefer "published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy"

      the real reviews, in my experience, happen here, and on wikipedia, etc, where i can join in.

      Except I took that wording directly from Wikipedia's guideline on identifying reliable sources. Citing a preprint or other self-published article is fine only if the article's authors have had articles in the same field published in traditional journals.

    5. Re:arXiv is not peer reviewed by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Peer review is not fact checking. Duplication is. And without big journals and the publish-or-perish culture they are cultivating, there would be more of that.

    6. Re:arXiv is not peer reviewed by rewindustry · · Score: 1

      understood, however, given the half-life of facts, in general, i still feel more comfortable with a living debate, than with published results... if you take a longitudinal look back through the reputable published sources, what percentage would be considered garbage, today? for instance, how many pro tobacco articles can you find, if you go back far enough? take a look at prepupilectomy, tonsilectomy, appendectomy, etc...

      as long as it takes money to publish, we will only ever get what is considerered profitable - this is not entirely a bad thing, but it is heavily limited, by design.

      as an open source fanatic, i am certain that all we need to do is open source all academic work, and the results would almost instantly become as reliable as linux and as useful as gnu.

      a lot of people would suddenly have to look for real work, though.

  22. Re:capitalism in action by tepples · · Score: 1

    I paid for much of the research with tax money. Why must I pay again to read it?

  23. Academia doesn't care about the sick by atari2600a · · Score: 1

    Welcome to die!

  24. Who is this poster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who are you? Where in the F are you going to school that you don't have access to a research database that has all and more of the articles you need? Look, I agree: The situation is fuk'd. Any and every American should have access to any research that had even 1 cent of of taxpayer dollars involved in its production. However, I'm suspicious of this article, because even Phoenix University students have access to the majority of EBSCO's journals. I've casually searched around on that DB and come across articles relevant to your topic. Moreover, I've specifically searched for topics that should have nothing at all to do with speech therapy, and yet every now and then I find one mixed in for no apparent reason. There are a ton of articles in that realm.

    I tend to run liberal, so why I am so incensed by your post? Is it, perhaps, because you start with an incendiary statement about how a group of terribly, unfairly unfortunate people (those who need speech therapy) are being kept from easy solutions to their problems, simply because of greedy profiteers . . . and yet somehow never explicitly state what amazing solution it is they are being kept from?

    Actually, no, it's because IF you are actually as smart as the person who wrote this piece and IF you are actually in school and IF you are actually working on a dissertation, then you are either in the worst fucking school I've ever heard of and too stupid to realize it, or you are someone who is manipulating people by playing upon their good-natured desire to help those less fortunate. Why you would do such a thing baffles me. Whoever you are, please stop being either a.) such an asshole or b.) such a whiny, self-sabotaging muck-about.

  25. There's another way... by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 2

    It's been my experience that access to non-US journals may not be so restricted. I've found relevant articles in UK journals for instance that aren't paywalled when the equivalent US journals were. Not all countries or scientific organizations are as greedy as they often seem to be in the U S. Unfortunately, you may have to find a translator or wing it with translation software if it's not an english-language source, but at least there are a few alternatives out there. And if you're a scientist in the US, you may be able to submit your papers to non-paywalled sources, possibly in addition to the paywalled ones, or host the papers on your own website, etc., making them more accessible. Paywalled sources are not the only game out there, you may just have to dig a little more.

    1. Re:There's another way... by nashv · · Score: 1

      Firstly, this is not a US-specific problem. Elsevier for example, is Dutch, while the Nature publishing group is UK-based.

      Secondly, the problem is not inability to publish in non-paywalled sources like hosting your own website. The problem is that in order to obtain significant recognition of your work even in a narrow field, the journal makes a huge difference. This is why journals such as Nature, Science, and Cell have impact factors in the mid-30s.

      Despite the discussion here , every academic knows these journals are not charging for their editorial service or hosting service. They are charging for the brand. In the same way that the $10 sneakers in Vietnam cost $70 when the Nike tick-mark appears on them. The brand has been built because significant discoveries in the past have been published in these journals, making it a self-perpetuating cycle.

      The only way the cycle breaks is if all public-funded research is made mandatorily open-access by legislation, or if the scientific community as a whole boycotts paywalled journals. Guess which one will be easier to manifest?

      --
      Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
    2. Re: There's another way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My point is however, that scientists can publish in paywalled journals to get the "recognition" they need, AND make the articles available for free elsewhere as well, not leaving it up to the journals to do the right thing. Usually what happens when you hit a paywall is you get to an abstract, where you find it's an article of interest. At that point, googling the author and title may uncover the same article from another source, such a the authors page at an educational institution where the author works, etc.

  26. Never mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ignore my post about who could be such a stupid fucking student. It's not. It's a cheap practitioner with too high of an opinion of herself coupled with the EFF's increasingly exaggerated and ridiculous reporting. I get that you're driving a heard of morons, EFF, but did you really have to sell your soul so quickly and cheaply?

  27. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by pepty · · Score: 2

    Not only the research papers are hidden behind paywalled, most of them don't even appear on search queries anymore.

    Could you elaborate a bit more on that? CAS Scifinder and STN (subscription based services) will get me more granular results than Google Scholar, but I find plenty of paywalled results when I use Google Scholar or PubMed. What is being blocked?

  28. Re: capitalism in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately, even in commie land, which is pretty cool (we have gov't cheese and beer), the USofA finds a way to profit off the proletariat. Recall if you will Tetris, the game EA, SEGA, Nintendo, Atari, and countless others made millions on. Care to guess how much money the author made? (Hint: It's a whole lot of nothing.)

  29. Re: capitalism in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember Tetris! I never paid for it either! Only rich capitalist pigs paid for Tetris!

  30. Just Ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a second year PhD candidate without access to every journal article that interests me, I've found that simply looking up one of the author's email address (usually published on their university webpage) and asking for a copy of the article works quite well. Every author likes it when someone shows interest in their work and as it can also lead to more citations, there's no reason for them to refuse. It might be a pain to do when you need a few hundred articles, but I would expect that most if not all of the authors would have a pdf attached to their reply.

  31. C'mon! Paid scientific articles are OVER! by korbulon · · Score: 1

    Most of the material I need to look up is fairly recent and therefore available via preprint archives. Also it is fairly easy to contact authors directly to ask questions, and have colleagues in parts of the world with access to the paid stuff. Basically Springer and their ilk are very much on the wrong side of history. They're dead in the water and all their activity from now on is basically trying to die, not with dignity, but with disgrace, leeching off as much money as can be had before the inevitable demise.

  32. I may have to wait 7-10 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consider your peer in a developing country, they'll have to wait

    * Forever. (trade secret)

    * 70-160 years. (copyright term)

    * 20 years. (patent term)

    These seem way too long to me.

  33. solutions by leehwtsohg · · Score: 1

    go to a library, or look up the articles and e-Mail the authors for reprints.

  34. simple answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    quit voting for assclowns

  35. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

    I completely agree. Two weeks ago I was looking for a paper and had to pay $35 to read it (actually the company paid, but that's not the point). I felt like I'd been hustled. It definitely does not cost $35 to serve a .PDF on the internet.

  36. Academic co-dependency by dstates · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The proprietary publishers have established an elaborate co-dependency relationship with academics. Academics depend on journal editorships and citations for promotion. Editors get many perks and prestige as a result of being an editor, but the selection of who becomes the editor is up to the publisher. Reviewers get pre-publication access to results. Yes, the reviewers are supposed to hold the information in confidence, but does pre-publication access help them in thinking about which directions to take in their own work? Absolutely. An extensive web of co-dependence has evolved between the proprietary publishers and the academic community.

    Academics generally do not receive royalties from journal articles, but they do from book publications. Who publishes those books? The same publishers that publish the proprietary journals. Who selects which authors will be invited to publish books? The publishers.

    Elite institutions and large university systems negotiate discounted and preferred subscription agreements giving their researchers free access to a wide range of journals, which in turn makes it more attractive for academic "stars" to go to those institutions. The faculty at those schools benefit from these favorable access agreements. Are we surprised that University of California faculty voted against open access?

    It is also not just speech and language research. The majority of work in fields like cancer research is also published in paywalled journals. Cancer patients may not be able to wait a year before articles appear in open access archives.

    The vast majority of academic work is supported by public funding, and charitable foundations support most of what is not government supported. High time to require open access. The academics are not going to do it themselves.

    --
    Statesman
    1. Re:Academic co-dependency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the correct word would be parasite instead of co-dependency.

  37. Why should this be different? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    Why should this be different than any other medical research. The US medical system is built on companies, hospitals, etc., profiting on people being sick. Why would research and research publications be any different?

    If you want this to change, you need to change the system. It is possible for healthcare to serve the common good instead of the shareholder and still return a yield on investment. It did exactly that until the 1980s.

  38. There is a solution! by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

    All other posts so far seem to focus on the obvious, i.e. journals are pay-walled, too expensive, researchers/reviewers do all the work, etc, but why is nobody looking for a (legal) solution to the problem? In fact, there is a solution which is really simple and will leave all parties satisfied.

    Researchers do some research and want it published. They want to publish it in a known and respected journal. Let's say the journal is owned by Elsevier, because I know for a fact that my solution will work with this publisher. The researchers go through all the submission, peer review, editing and proofreading process and then they get the article published and pay-walled. So far, it's business as usual. What most people seem to ignore (because who reads the article submission agreement, right?) is that Elsevier only owns the very final version of the article, i.e. after the final formatting is in place. This means that you can take the article version with all peer-review corrections, but without the final journal-specific formatting (that includes logos and such), and make it available for free on the website of your research institute or university. This is perfectly legal and acceptable practice. In fact, lots of people are doing it, but we still like to complain about research papers being too expensive. Before slamming down 40 bucks for an article, do a Google search with filetype:pdf. Maybe you'll find it for free, courtesy of an open-minded researcher.

    Also, nobody can complain: Elsevier got the article and can sell it to unsuspected researchers and libraries, the researchers got published without paying anything, and the general public got open access to the research findings. The only caveat is that there is no guarantee that the content of the article on the researcher's website it identical to the one in the journal. But I'm prepared to take the researcher's word for this, since if I'm reading their article, they already have my trust concerning the content of their research.

    So there. Stop moaning and put those PDFs online, that's what I say.

  39. This isn't a communist country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That which is funded by the taxpayer does not belong to The People.

    We don't live in a communist country. We live in a Political-Corporate Oligarchy where wealth is taken from the common class and funneled to the ruling class, and the product of that wealth is kept for themselves.

  40. Open Access by Turbio · · Score: 1

    There is a trend to publish on Open Access jurnals, such as PloS One, which charge the authors (about 2K) to cover the publishing costs. Then the access for anyone is free. Even Nature offers the choice to publish as open access.
    It may be argued that 2K is too expensive and that if the author pays for the publication costs there is a conflict of interests. But the trend is clear. It's now a matter of adjusting the costs.

  41. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by iserlohn · · Score: 2

    Socializing costs, privatizing profits. That's how money is made in science (and banking and almost everything else) these days.

  42. Ridiculous situation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is so amusing Scientific articles are being paywalled and locked up, while movie&music industry has serious containment problem :D
    and guess what which one of these were supposed to be public and open to all?

    literally it's easier to get movies from internet for free via torrent than finding scientific articles

    and situation is even more ridiculous as some countries used to have university libraries with computers that could access most publications free... guess what... not anymore... and there even isn't paper versions avail.

    This is especially annoying if your trying to tackle some problem, youll find study that refers to another study concluded by another party... and guess what at this point its already pointing to paywalled article most likely... thus your left in situation that you just read scientific article based on foundations of another that your not accessing without paying... meaning you just wasted your time and in order NOT to waste time you can undo this by paying 40 dollars :D

  43. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And wars / rebuilding / corporatization of security-theatre infrastructure. God bless your corrupt-assed one-bad-apple-in-the-world's-barrel country.

  44. E-Mail The Authors by umafuckit · · Score: 2

    I work in academia so I have access to most of the journals I need but not all. When I hit a paywall, I either Google for the PDF (a lot of authors chuck their papers on the web somewhere even if it's "illegal") or I e-mail the authors. Many papers are available free with a year delay. I've never, ever, had to pay at the wall to get a paper I needed. I know the scientific article situation is bad in many ways, but you don't have to wait multiple years for access: use your brain and get it some other way.

  45. I agree, BUT... by pla · · Score: 1

    First, I agree with the premise of the FP. Any publicly funded research should come with an absolutely unavoidable requirement to publish in a form open to everyone for free. I have no problem with dual-publishing, for example in both JAMA and PLoS Medicine - Though in that case, JAMA does have a problem with it and would refuse the submission - But people absolutely must have some way to get at your publicly funded research for free.

    But more seriously, aside from the "public funding" angle of this, how does it happen that a doctor trying to use cutting-edge research on their patients doesn't have an institutional affiliation through which they could get access to journal articles basically for free? This alone makes me somewhat wary of Grove's legitimacy. Not an adjunct? No admission rights?

    Hell, for a practical short-term solution - Sign up for a single class each semester at the local state university (you need to take CEs anyway to keep your license), and you'll have access to journals in languages you've never even heard of. Longer term solution? Publish, and tell anyone who will listen that you did it in an open access journal specifically to snub the likes of Elsevier.

  46. Printing Still Costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It still costs money to print a journal - copy editors, etc all have salaries that need to be paid. Lots of scientific societies (American Physical Society is the one I'm a member of) print journals as part of their scientific mission. These are all non-profit organizations relying on unpaid peer reviewers. I can't find the numbers for the most recent fiscal year, but publishing accounts for almost all their expenses. If they had to give away any research funded by the government (and virtually everything coming out of a US university is - industry funding of physics basic research is basically a rounding error) they would have to either stop publishing or go out of business, and we would lose the single most important series of journals in physics (The Physical Review).

    Free (beer) sounds good, but its not realistic. Even RMS has always said that publishing and distribution are reasonable costs for free software; journal articles are no different. If you don't want to pay $125, you can always get copies the old-fashioned way - drive to the nearest university and make photocopies for a few cents a page.

  47. period by mynameiskhan · · Score: 1

    period

  48. Medical equivalent of arxiv? by RaccoonBandit · · Score: 1

    So we physicists have Arxiv.org, where pretty much every recently published paper is available for free, often months before a journal has finally got round to actually publishing the article. Does medical research not have anything comparable?

  49. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 1

    Socializing costs, privatizing profits. That's how money is made in science (and banking and almost everything else) these days.

    And sports stadium funding (at least in the US; that's all I know about). In that case though, they socialize the costs and the risk, and privatize the profits.

  50. The simple solution by edrobinson · · Score: 1

    Just apply for a taxpayer grant to pay for your paywalled access to the material...

  51. Operational costs of an SLP by kyle3489 · · Score: 1

    Nearly every occupation has operational costs. This is yours. A thousand dollars a year is only ~1.5% of the income of an speech and language pathologist... I'm not crying for you, Argentina. If you're really strapped for cash, go use a library, that's what they're for. If you want the luxury of sitting at home and sipping your coffee while you browse the latest and greatest published in Science, then pay up. I'm a recent ex-*student* (not a 80k/yr salaried SLP), and I have yet to find an article that I can't find free access to. At worst, you can sign up for your alumni association and get access to their library proxy and get articles that way (for $40/yr, or $400/lifetime or so).

  52. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

    most of them don't even appear on search queries anymore

    I seriously challenge this point, although I'm no more a fan of paywalls than you are. Abstracts are always available and searchable.

  53. Re: Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progr by MickLinux · · Score: 1

    Actually, no: for general research, there was Readers' guide to periodical literature, and for specific topics (such as particle physics) there were similar catalog-format databases. You buy the database, you get the periodicals, and you use interlibrary loan.

    Information was much freer back then.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  54. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    I'm sure there are lots of exceptions but when I worked in academia I had no problem getting access to journals and this was the earliesh days of the internet (98-2000). Universities generally have access for all the main journals. My field (physics) generally has a habit of publishing pre-published papers to "the archives" which are free (also have engineering and comp sci papers there). Technically you aren't supposed to since most/all journals stipulate that the articles you are submitting are original unpublished research but they let it slide.

    Next up conferences/incestual relationships: in a narrow field (which lets be honest is where most academics end up working) your PhD supervisor is either THE expert in the field or did their grad work/post doc with one of the few people that are. You go to conferences with a 100 plus people all with their own networks of experts from different continents. Finding who is doing something interesting isn't hard. The people/politics is what is hard: convincing them to collaborate, share unpublished results etc. Once it is published they'll happily send you a pdf, talk your ear off at a bar etc.

    The people that complain about lack of access (and I've become one of them to a small extent) is people that no longer work directly in academia, no longer work full time on R & D, and/or are working on their own on side projects and would really like access. For most of us if we really cared we could drop ~$200 a year and get electronic access via our local university's community library access programs. We just don't care enough to spend $200 of our own money or take a 30min drive somewhere which to be honest acts as a filter to those that are unlikely to be current enough and willing to put in enough effort to make a meaningful contribution.

  55. Taxpayer funded? No. Publicly funded. by intermodal · · Score: 1

    I don't care whether you pay taxes or not. If you are a member of the public, research done on the public dime should be accessible to you without additional costs other than what it actually costs to provide the data itself. In the age of the Internet, it is inexcusable for that to mean anything but freely available publicly-funded servers.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  56. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by SJester · · Score: 1

    I agree. The article, and a lot of the commenters, are ignoring the fact that these costs ~$40 per article - are only for single servings outside a research facility or library. I'm inside a university right now and I can pull down nearly any paper I'd care to. The few that I can't access directly can usually be had by emailing an author and asking for it. No one has said no yet. More to the point, the article quotes a practitioner. If she wants to read recent research relevant to her work, is she not affiliated with a hospital? A college? Even a library? It's very hard to believe that she is so isolated and want to remain free of affiliations, and also represents the common practitioner. And a corollary suggests itself; if she's so isolated from academia, is she qualified to even read and make decisions based upon raw research? There's a reason why an aftermarket exists to digest research and integrate it into practical guidelines. I agree fully that casual access from the Web is very restricted, I would love to see the gates opened. But jumping from the difficulty of access to claiming an impact on patients is bullshit. If the data mattered, it's trivial to collect whatever access you need.

  57. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by anyGould · · Score: 1

    Whether or not taxpayer-funded research should be accessible to the taxpayers for FREE is a matter to be acertained,

    Well, in a sense, any American has already paid for that research (via tax dollars). Probably the only time geofencing restrictions would make sense to use. (Wouldn't want us Canadians freeloading on ya!)

    Look at it this way - if you substitute "taxpayer" with "Walmart" ("Whether or not Walmart-funded research should be accessible to Walmart for free.."), the argument suddenly sounds silly - why *wouldn't* the people who paid for it get to see it?

  58. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your assertion doesn't make it right, and even making the assertion makes you a potential target of some sort. Be careful what you say, it can come back to haunt you in a changed future.

  59. Re:Paywalls ... strangulation of scientific progre by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

    A doctor with an affiliation to a major research hospital would probably have access. A doctor whose affiliation is with a smaller hospital, especially a for-profit one, likely would not.

  60. Consensus of reliable sources has changed by tepples · · Score: 1

    given the half-life of facts, in general, i still feel more comfortable with a living debate, than with published results

    Including things in Wikipedia that are still under heavy debate smacks of recentism, but that's why there are plenty of other sites.

    for instance, how many pro tobacco articles can you find, if you go back far enough?

    Wikipedia recognizes that consensus can change, both in project space (WP:CCC) and in article space. When the consensus of reliable sources has changed, Wikipedia would likely handle it roughly as follows: "In $year, tobacco was widely believed healthy.[6][7][8]"

    as an open source fanatic, i am certain that all we need to do is open source all academic work

    Enough other people hold this position that Wikipedia has an article about it.

  61. thank you by rewindustry · · Score: 1

    it would seem we are getting there.