Slashdot Mirror
Sweden Is Closing Many Prisons Due to Lack of Prisoners
rtoz writes "Sweden is taking steps to close many prisons due to lack of prisoners. This year alone, four prisons and a detention center got closed in Sweden. The percentage of the population in Sweden prison is significantly lower than in most other countries. ... Though the Swedish Government is taking steps to close the prisons, the crime rate in Sweden has increased slightly. It seems they are planning to take steps for preventing crime rather than focusing on jailing people involved in criminal activities."
be outsourced? This is EXACTLY what USA need.
California has a problem with overcrowded prisons. Sweden has a problem with prisons being unoccupied.
I sense an opportunity for a good capitalist.
Just think of how many jobs will be lost by the closing of these prisons! Surely there must be something we can do to prevent this calamity from continuing. Maybe the government should subsidize crime to encourage more criminals so that these jobs are safe. Or make a bunch of things illegal that aren't, currently, to increase the incarceration rate. Cause more jobs = better economy as we all know.
Well, tragic that the prison industry is too profitable in the US to follow suit, anyway.
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
See what happens when you provide free health care, childcare & social services to prevent crimes based on poverty and drug use!
All those precious moments of a Cold War youth, and all I have to show for them is that I saw them go down the memory hole.
This is the sort of thing you see in countries deeply afflicted with the European-socialist culture of dependency and waste. First, the state wastefully builds a bunch of white-elephant infrastructure projects, rather than embarking on an Efficient private contract; because it's somebody else's money they are spending.
Then, when those projects stand empty, the state just expects somebody to give them customers (we worked so hard, don't we deserve to succeed?) and then throws up its hands in limp-wristed failure and admits defeat, rather than going out there and making customers through good, old-fashioned, hard work and brutal overcriminalization of all sorts of petty offenses.
This, my friends, is what a sick society looks like. I bet they try to hide their shame by cooking up a bunch of fancy statistics about how good their human development index rankings, life expectancy, and similar ivory-tower nonsense are; but you can't hide moral sickness this profound.
On the other hand, our neighbors to the West are fine with jailing a MS patient for using pot to help her with her condition: http://www.thelocal.se/20080125/9775
It's not my fault the vast majority of yellow press will avoid reporting on anything that goes contrary to the politically correct narrative.
As they where locked out of other choices.
Also some homeless people go in and out of jails as well.
Why closing them? They should outsource/rent to the Americans, I'm sure they could make some money and create more jobs at the same time.
does Sweden have mental health centers to help people unlike the us that shout some down and the people just moved to prisons.
Yes, we should start jailing therapists. Their extortionate "professional rates" suck the lifeblood out of the economy. People would be better off spending this money on hookers and gigolos who give guaranteed relief. Oh wait, not "therapists" but "the rapists". Well, if people were more inclined to hire hookers, that problem could be solved, too!
Yeah, right, IT'S A CONSPIRACY! Come back when you have a source more credible than Newsmax.
Don't mess with the equilibrium. Less criminals means less need for cops means more unemplyed cops who usually go into organized crime means more criminals means you need to hire more cops means less crime means... - OMG, it's just a way to get the whole population into organized crime!
Why don't we outsource our prisons to Sweden? They get to keep their prisons and I bet they can implement them for a lot less expense than American prisons! Then everyone's a winner!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It is your fault for quoting Newsmax. :D
Seriously, look a the link itself. "europe-immigration-muslim-obama". I mean.... come on... sheesh.
Actually crime in the USA is also down.
I am not saying our extremely high incarceration rate is the primary cause for the reduction in crime. But in spite of what is commonly reported about America, crime is actually improving. I would expect if we did a similar reduction in sentences for drug offenders, and have some better support for those getting out of jail we would have gotten a bigger reduction probably at a lower cost, but being "soft on crime" does not help anyone win elections
right?
I understand what you're saying and i'm starting to become more sure about an idea that's been around for awhile...
I think the economic concept of ***scarcity*** itself is being rendered statistically irrelevant because of technology
technology is solving so many of our problems that we really don't **need** to work as much as we used to...
at least theoretically...right? or WTF else do we bother making and using these flaming gadgets?
look at food production...technology can become so efficient that it can always keep pace with demand...what then? wouldn't it be a crime **NOT** to give food freely?
we have the technology as humans to feed and clothe every living human in perpetuity now...strip away the B.S. and it is true
people talk of things like "divide and conquer" and "artificial scarcity" or "making a market" all the time, but I think we all need to reconsider **how much we are being held back as a species**
it has gotten really, really bad, IMHO...
**WHAT IF WE DON'T NEED TO WORK AS HARD ANYMORE???**
would your boss tell you that? what about the company that profits from the scarcity a particular technology solves?
technology has worked...it is solving most of our immediate problems...scarcity for the most basic essentials of human existence is no longer a evolutionary factor in modern countries to survival for most...the food is there...
as the trope goes, the problem is "human error" in this system...
Thank you Dave Raggett
But they just dont have enough space for all the NSA employees.
Swedish prisoners have a better life in general than people in the USA in a minimum wage job. They get better housing, food and work hours, plus they get education, health care and all, so they have a chance to stay out of prison once their punishment is over. Bonus: they get to keep their voting rights after they are out, so they are still part of the democratic process that is the base of the laws that put them in prison in the first place.
Maybe it's time the USA starts looking at how Sweden gets this accomplished and use that as an inspiration to improve. If even the prisoners there have it better than over a quarter of the free people in the USA, you'd say there should be improvements to be found.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
capitalism is extremely efficient at profiting from human misery
government is extremely efficient at creating human misery
There is no such thing as rape insurance in Sweden. It is a Greek myth: http://www.thelocal.se/20110415/33232
But the one drug that is no longer prohibited is now the worst offender of all? Me thinks you need to rethink that argument.
It still makes sense if you look at it in the context of that as bad as alcohol is now, as bad as it was before prohibition, the net effects of it's prohibition on society was worse. Alcohol poisonings went up. Hell, our own government caused a number of deaths by deliberately poisoning alcohol in a weird "Drinking is bad! Let's make it worse! by deliberately poisoning it and maybe people will stop!" line of thinking. You vastly empowered organized crime(the 'mobs' of the day, 'gangs' today), got violence on the street, incredible incentives for police to become corrupt, the shift from 'officer of the peace' to 'law enforcement', etc...
My support for legalizing drugs is pure harm mitigation, not harm prevention. Because prevention isn't working even at huge expense.
I don't read AC A human right
The US suffers a "inefficiency of scale" problem -- the idea of acting like a citizen.
... and we don't get micromanaged like what happens in European countries ...
...
Many of the continental European countries are more tightly bound in the human spirit and sense of identity and culture than the USA.
The USA suffers from "what's in it for me?" freeloaders and "what's in it for me?" capitalists and "what's in it for me?" politicians --- all of which miss grander and greater human concepts.
Although people in the USA generally have a lot of freedom and very little oversight
pros and cons, everyone wants the cake and eat it too
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
as somebody who has spent more than a year in prison cumulatively, let me assure you that I am motivated never to return!
Your use of the word "cumulatively" suggests that you already did return...once wasn't enough.
No sig today...
Letting them walk?
From Wikipedia:
"Sweden has the highest incidence of reported rapes in Europe and one of the highest in the world. According to a 2009 study, there were 46 incidents of rape per 100,000 residents. This figure is twice that of the UK which reports 23 cases, and four times that of the other Nordic countries, Germany and France. The figure is up to 20 times the figure for certain countries in southern and eastern Europe."
"Whenever the cause of the people is entrusted to professors, it is lost." ~ V.I. Lenin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Sweden is 44:th on the list and as such probably isn't eligible for the "highest suicide rates"-prize this year...
[i] Sweden has shown the ability to rehabilitate around twice as effectively as the USA(20% recedivism vs 60% here, ergo 80% effective vs 40%)[/i]
I think an important point being overlooked in this discussion is an analysis of the conditions that drove the inmates to crime in the first place. How many crimes are committed by someone trying to callously shortcut the rules of society vs. someone down on their luck or just trying to survive? Perhaps there's nothing particularly special about the rehabilitation methods performed by the prisons, but instead, Sweden's done a top job of addressing the underlying issues.
Also - and I have to bring it up - stupid-ass drug laws. If we can't legalize the mostly harmless recreational drugs out there, can we PLEASE stop locking people up for minor drug offenses, and instead fine them, like traffic violations (which are actually, you know, dangerous) and other civil infractions? Fines would actually help regulate the 'problem' while RAISING MONEY instead of needlessly locking up harmless people (destroying their lives in the process) which then becomes a gigantic drain on society due to the fact that we've now made them effectively wards of the state. It's fucking idiotic, man. Catch a guy smoking a joint? Slap him with a $150 ticket. No criminal record established, just show up and pay your fine and everything is golden. Don't slam his face into the pavement and seize his house and pull his children into state custody and ruin his reputation for the rest of his life, ensuring that when he finally gets out of prison, he'll turn to crime, because you've eliminated any and all chances that he'll magically fall into being a useful member of society after you've branded him for life. Nobody wants to hire the guy that just spent months in lockup on drug charges. The system we have here now does not 'rehabilitate' anyone. It brands them with a criminal record that they can never live down, often for minor charges. OF COURSE they turn to crime - even if what they were doing was harmless and not immoral in any way. They were convicted and served sentences and were told by everyone that they were a criminal and did criminal things. Why wouldn't they turn to crime when released? Everyone thinks they're a criminal anyway.
Sweden != Switzerland. And Switzerland is having a problem with gun crime. So you're about as wrong as you can be, which is not surprising for a gun nut.
Do you actually ever read the books you chew on?
Communist parties existed in Europe well into the 80's and in for instance France they still play a major role.
Although I suppose technically 2013 is after WW2.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You may be wrong, it may be the case that incarceration increases the likelihood of reoffending.
Korma: Good
Two logical fallacies in a single line of text, and you are 5 Insightful?
The Strawman and the Genetic fallacy - well played.
That's not what Sweden does though. It does jail people for drug offenses and it doesn't go tough on driving offenses. Please don't attach your preferences to someone else's success.
Pretty much this. Someone caught for minor drug offenses will be sent to rehab, not to jail in Sweden.
That is however not the entire story. A recent study in Sweden made in Swedish prisons found that the prisoners were highly overrepresented when it came to suffering from ADHD. (63% compared to around 5% for the rest of the population.)
What this means is that even the really violent criminals that people generally think deserves to be in jail can be treated.
I think the study was extended to all Swedish jails earlier this year or something.
The early tests showed that by just giving a correct diagnosis and give the prisoner the option (It is a completely voluntary system.) to take medication for ADHD the previously violent criminal will magically transform into a contributing member of society instead of becoming a repeat offender.
capitalism is extremely efficient at profiting from human misery
humans are extremely efficient at creating human misery
/FIFY
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
I'm not sure why there is this weird myth in the US about Sweden being "socialist". We've had a right wing government for the past 8 years. There has also been in the past two decades a sharp turn towards libertarian ideology in Sweden (our right is not socially conservative) and this is also true for the social democrats who have very little of socialism left in them.
Health care isn't free, nor are child care and social services. They are in some cases heavily subsidized, but definitely not free. It is accessible to everyone and it works very well for most people and their needs. It sort of sucks for more advanced medicine: If you are going to have a child for instance, it's superb while if you have say lung cancer, your chances are much better if you have the operation in the US.
The rather dysfunctional medical care system in the US is not a socialist/capitalist thing - it's just a system that doesn't work very well for a lot of people. The insurance model of financing healthcare is for instance very questionable etc.
As for other stuff such as taxes, I could mention stuff like that Sweden has no inheritance taxes, no real estate taxes or that the financial system is orders of magnitude less regulated than the US one etc Sweden is also somewhat of a corporate tax haven - with the right corporate structure you can get away with paying very little taxes. The bottom line is that from a Swedish perspective at least in in some respects the US is far more socialist than Sweden.
Ideologically you could say that the typical Swede is a pragmatic individualist who thinks that the role of the state is to protect, liberate and enable the individual. Unlike a 'pure' socialist system the role of the state is limited to problems it actually can solve. Unlike a 'pure' capitalist system the state has an enabling role as well (positive freedoms) rather than just a protective role (negative freedoms). If you things those concepts are muddled, you are quite right. Hence the pragmatism. And it sort of works. It's far from perfect. It's very disappointing to those that wish to classify it ideologically. There are many small issues and some huge ones (integration into society of immigrants is one example) but on the whole it is a decent society - and much better off than 30 years ago when it was much easier to classify ideologically.
Sweden does have a zero tolerance approach to drugs but it is much more than that, basic possession can get you a fine or imprisonment up to 6 months but the 6 months is a requirement for police to perform a body search. So in reality you'd probably get a fine. If children are involved well that raises the seriousness and is more likely to get you prison time. There are comprehensive residential drug treatment programs available and free too those who need them.
There is a bug difference in prison population between the USA who jails 750 out of 100,000 and sweden who jails just 84 around 23% of prison inmates are there for drugs offences but the average number of people locked up in sweden is around 4,100 total.
figures here are pulled from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Sweden
Sweden isn't soft on drugs by any stretch but you are more likely to be treated rather than imprisoned. Sweden seems to be focussed on making its entire society productive and happy. Totally different from the American aim which seems to be look out for yourself and be sure not to stumble or your screwed. Trouble is just being honest isn't enough, you have to be healthy and lucky too. I say lucky because even having great genes doesn't stop you getting hit by a bus and crippled.
Sad thing is although there may be millions of Americans who can see how much their society fails them. The barriers to change seem pretty much impossible to overcome. The system fails Americans rich and poor. Even if your doing ok, whats to stop some crack head breaking in to your home? Ok you might kill him, but you are just as much let down as the crack head who tried to rob you.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
The fun part is that we LIKE that.
Take that compulsory health care thing. When we heard the US is going to get something like that, a good deal of us pretty much thought something along the lines of "finally, it's been about time their politicians came to their senses and did something for the ... wait, what? They do NOT want that?"
Quite frankly, we were incredibly surprised that there could possibly be any kind of resistance to that. I mean, sure, I'll probably spend more on my health care "tax" than I'll ever "get out" of it (at least I sure hope so!), but there are so many who are unfortunate enough to get more out of the deal than they could possibly afford. Worse, no private company would give them insurance and they'd probably die.
I think that's the "human spirit" you talk about.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I think he means how many "social" things are pretty much compulsory here in Europe while they're very optional in the US. Health/accident/pension/unemployment insurance, all mandatory here. Among other things. And just like the US now fight tooth and nail to not get them (at least that's what the "obamacare" craze taught me), so would we fight tooth and nail if anyone dared to ponder considering talking about taken them from us.
Of course that means that, in the end, I get only about 60% of my actual wage, the rest goes to this tax and that healthcare and whatnot. And the more you earn, the closer you get to 50%. On the bright side, if you're earning minimum wage, your tax total isn't even close to 10% of your income. Not that you could possibly afford more...
A side effect of this is, though, that even the lowest income earners have a pension, healthcare and unemployment insurance. Since you cannot simply forgo it, your employer HAS to pay you enough to live AND prepare for unfortunate times.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The problem there is that a lot of the people who end up in your prisons would actually not be serious offenders, but rather rebellious teenagers doing a little petty shoplifting or smoking pot. Crimes they would cease if just given a slap on the wrist, or just outgrow. Instead your approach throws them in jail to disrupt their education, ruin them socially, give them plenty of new criminal contacts and exposure to a criminal culture that encourages crime, and render them effectively unemployable upon release so their only possible income is harder crime.
You've just invented a way to turn annoying teenagers into home invaders, drug dealers and murderers. Nice plan.
That's why a lot of countries now move away from fixed fines to "daily rates". I.e. you pay depending on your income, and that fine is then 10, 30, 60, 90... days of your income. I.e. 30 days = 1 month's pay.
If you don't want to tell the court how much you make, that's fine. They'll simply estimate. Guess on what side they usually err if you let them guess.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
One reason for the almost world-wide reduction in crime is the reduction of lead in the environment, thanks to unleaded fuel.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
...you've eliminated any and all chances that he'll magically fall into being a useful member of society after you've branded him for life.
Honestly, I think public criminal records are a big problem.
My feeling is that the justice system should be primarily rehabilitative. Criminal records are anything but.
People should be incarcerated if they're too dangerous to walk out on the street, or if they can't be rehabilitated while having access to the streets. If somebody has been rehabilitated, then they are no longer a criminal, and they should not be interfered with. If they can't be trusted out in public without warning everybody that they're potentially dangerous, then they shouldn't be out in public in the first place.
I think that rehabilitating criminals so that they can re-integrate into society without being treated like criminals for the rest of their lives is just the morally right thing to do. However, if I were a selfish bastard I'd still think that it was the smart thing to do. Locking up criminals repeatedly costs me taxes. Having them out on the street committing crimes costs me taxes. Then when they're out if they can't get a job then they're not making any significant income and that means they're not paying taxes, which means I'm paying their share of the taxes, and they're probably even collecting social benefits of some kind, which also costs me taxes. The current US justice system is probably the most expensive way of handling criminals I could come up with, and we're all paying the bill for it. About the only people who come out ahead are the companies that run the prisons.
The article doesn't state what specific steps the country is taking to reduce crime. That would be much more interesting to read. Currently the article isn't much more than a page out of the IKEA catalog.
Take that compulsory health care thing. When we heard the US is going to get something like that, a good deal of us pretty much thought something along the lines of "finally, it's been about time their politicians came to their senses and did something for the ... wait, what? They do NOT want that?"
I was watching Real Time with Bill Maher last weekend, he had (almost Mayor) Weiner on there, and while the guy may not be socially savvy, he at least has a pretty good political mind. My favorite quote was during the debate on Obamacare where the Republican Rep (name doesn't matter, they're all Republemmings these days and few think for themselves) was reciting his parties lines, and Weiner quipped "It was a Republican idea, the Democrats just implemented it. Why do you have so much hate for your own good ideas?" There was also a comment in there about the way the parties respond to things, Republicans have this trend of shutting down and fighting every action done by the Democrats (i.e. Obamacare, or any of Obama's policies for that matter), while Democrats may not agree with a Republican (i.e. Bush), they don't do the same level of shutdown and public outcry. Neither party is perfect, they all act like spoiled children who want to be the one to create that crayon picture that mom (history) puts up on the fridge for all to see.
It is an interesting view on our society though. We want everything for nothing, we elect people who claim they are for the people but often are anything but (e.g. furlough, twice this year alone), and capitalism, capitalism, capitalism. The intent for our government was by the people, for the people, and Senate recess was supposed to be so the Senators could go home and tend their crops, to see how the people they are representing are doing. Instead we get this popularity contest of rich people who know how to say what people want to hear, and are so disconnected from the reality of the poor that when something comes along whose intent is to help everyone, there is so much bickering and mud throwing that the people lose.
Actually, many, many of us do want it. Just the greedy, self-centered, me-first, Fox news watchers don't.
A major part of the problem in the United States is that "once a felon, always a felon." Misdemeanor littering charges will drastically lower your ability to get a job and housing, and a felony conviction practically guarantees never being able to rent a decent apartment or obtain a decent job. The US has little concept of forgiveness, and the predominant attitude towards those who have wronged and wish to start walking the straight and very narrow path of lawful and ethically sound conduct are met with "if you didn't want to be homeless and jobless, you shouldn't have committed a crime. (Implicitly: We don't give a fuck if it was 20 years ago, you're a Bad Person(TM) and we hate you and wish you would die, but you won't so we'll do whatever we can to make you a permanent outcast.)" It is only through a combination of silence, deception, and a few understanding/forgiving people out there that a criminal can climb back up the ladder and live a more normal life.
I wonder how many repeat offenders are that only because they were at the end of their rope and had to steal just to survive, or how many probation violations are minor things like being unable to get a job. It's interesting that probationers are typically required to get and/or maintain employment as part of their probation even though a criminal conviction butchers their ability to do so. It's a pretty messed up system all around, but the largest fault falls on the shoulders of people who refuse to understand other people before passing rapid, harsh judgment upon them. Paranoid helicopter moms with rapist-scanning eyes set at ISO 6400 calling the cops on lone males minding their own business in a city park come to mind as one example. The threshold for "creepy" has lowered so far that if you simply exist with a penis attached in a public place, it's assumed you're going to go Candlejack on all the kids in short order. Throw in the people who can't grasp the concept that not everything they read online or see in a 24-hour news report is truthful and you've got a huge vocal chunk of the population that assume everyone is out to stab them and their families to death for the $2.47 and a paper clip in their pocket if they walk past the wrong bush.
Where are the societies in this world that consist of mostly trustworthy and friendly people? What happened in America that wrecked our compassion and desire to help people? When did that get replaced with token gestures and false fronts?
In the USA they solved this problem by making more laws that send people to prison. Prisons are BIG BUSINESS with capital letters. They have lobbyists working full time to write laws to create more customers.