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NSA Planned To Discredit Radicals Based On Web-Browsing Habits
wired_parrot writes "New leaked documents show that the NSA was not only monitoring suspected radical sympathizers, but planned to discredit them based on their web-surfing habits. This includes not only evidence of porn browsing and online sexual activity, but also extortion and blackmail based on inappropriate use of funds. At the same time, the leaked document notes that very few of the targeted contacts were associated with terrorism."
first "if you're not doing anything wrong, you've nothing to hide" post!
Why would one lose ones credibility because of that?
If anything I wouldn't trust someone who doesn't watch porn..
Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Unfortunately we get to come along for the ride.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Information imbalance creates a vast power imbalance. And we'd be fools to think that this power imbalance would not be exploited. Generally, in military terms you talk about capabilities, rather than intentions when making assessments. So when universal surveillance becomes a capability, we have to assume it's not just used, but used universally. And one doesn't have to go far in history to search for consequences of having such a system. While not nearly as sophisticated, East Germany during the Soviet era provides plenty of evidence for what WILL be done with the information obtained as a result of a vast surveillance network. In a few words, mainly ammunition for the government to persecute and discredit critics (which isn't new), but also alarmingly but unsurprisingly, a way for those with access to this information (specific individuals within law enforcement and government) to exert this power over other private individuals for spite, profit, blackmail, coverup, etc. It's happened before. We have to be fools to think it won't happen again.
Given the shroud of secrecy the NSA has created, it would be impossible to tell what evidence was real and what was fabricated. So if the NSA wanted to frame one of these "radicals" -- or a sitting member of Congress -- who would be able to refute those charges?
When are Congressmen going to publicly admit that this rogue agency is a greater danger to national security, in any meaningful sense of the term, than Al Quaeda ever was?
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Remember the article yesterday about US officials fearing another 2 years' worth of releases? It means there are people well aware of more things not yet released. This is just the beginning.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
It really is, except this time there's no messy "black bag" B&E jobs to get into homes and find porno mags, read diaries and letters, etc. Just hack into their computers and it's all right there.
You know, it's funny but I don't believe I recall seeing "...until we don't agree with your speech, at which point we'll collect dirt on you and blackmail you with it" in the first amendment. Must be in the second edition.
The Great Firewall of China begins to look like a useful protection for their citizens at this point.
(Yes, I realize that the majority of these people were not on US soil, but it's purportedly a principle, and one the US criticizes any country who does not espouse, and as such should apply more broadly then just to people standing on US soil at the time).
Min
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
While most won't mind the NSA blackmailing (potential) terrorists using their web history, why stop there? Hasn't the NSA already blackmailed high ranking EU politicians, using the very same techniques, to ensure that SWIFT data will continue to be shared with the US, despite the European Parliament's motion to suspend this data sharing? See where all this leads to?
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
This is the beauty of the structured releases.
GG: The NSA is spying on the Internet. Here is the proof.
NSA: No, we're only spying on terrorist's use of the Internet.
GG: The NSA is spying on everyone on the Internet. Here is the proof.
NSA: Well OK, but we can't help that. Anyway, we don't look at it if you aren't a terrorist.
GG: The NSA hands over unfiltered data on non-terrorists to Israel and the FBI. Here is the proof.
NSA: Well OK, but if you aren't doing anything illegal, you have nothing to hide.
GG: The NSA blackmails political radicals. Here is the proof.
I do hope this goes on for years.
It's an age-old adage, if you give someone power they ARE going to use it. And agencies, like people, will usually push for as much power as they can get. The NSA and CIA (and to a lesser extent, the FBI) were basically given blank checks after 9-11. Anyone who ever believed they were going to voluntarily restrict their use of that kind of power to Muslim terrorists was a fool.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
What did the NSA know about Tamerlan Tsarnaev? That's what I want to know. If the mass surveillance is justified, how did they not know about his plot? How did they fail to prevent it?
Actually, I was also referring to Dominique Strauss Kahn (seems to be a common tactic these days). Poor boy made the mistake of challenging the supremacy of the U.S. dollar as IMF chief. Within a few months he was in handcuffs, with the prosecutor announcing a "rock solid" rape case--forcing him to resign. Three days after his successor was sworn in as the new IMF chief, the prosecutor dropped all charges and announced the case had no merit.
I guess the lesson here is, don't fuck with the U.S. government.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Arms inspector Scott Ritter, who called Bush and company liars. Immediately monitored to hell and back, reputation ruined by mysterious surveillance forces within months of taking the fight to Bush's people. Being right was no excuse; he was never allowed on Oprah again, or anywhere else. We invaded Iran under false pretense. He's in prison after the second round of surveillance.
As for the charges, which they ultimately nailed him with? Dunno. Why does everyone assume that computers can't lie? Once you set up the premise that we are catching lots of bad men, it's child's play to make you a bad man - just invent some logs, some chat, and boom goes the dynamite. I don't trust electrons when they are under the control of people who would bomb 60,000 people to death for oil and conflating brown people with other brown people.
And talking to girls online is a crime they can hang on a lot of men, anyway. He didn't *do* anything. Except piss the right people off. On the other hand, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft and Rice are rich and free after stealing trillions in oil, starting two endless wars, and killing over a hundred thousand people.
Assume that people are watching you, listening to you - retroactively - if you annoy the right people. They can indeed hang you with six lines. Hell, I do now christen this "Richelieuing".
The FBI used similar tactics on the "most dangerous Negro" aka Martin Luther King -- they bugged his bedroom and then tried to blackmail him with an audiotape of him having sex with women who weren't his wife.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Well Mr. Congressman, we understand your concerns. But before you vote to restructure the agency, we've some material you might like to see. Now, don't ask how we got our hands on your browsing records, records which will offend the religious sensibilities of your conservative voters and the racial sensitivities of your liberal voters, but we just wanted you to know that our agency is doing everything in its power to make sure such things don't become public record.
Why would congress or the president want to stop this? It's a serious question because I don't understand how any adult in the US today honestly thinks that any of the powers that be have any interest in stopping any of this.
There may be a few well meaning members of the power elite here and there that believe in things like the constitution and the rights of the individual but they're few and far between and the mass media, both left and right leaning, go out of their way to portray these people as loons. Most voters eat it up and ask for seconds.
The two party system has all the trappings of professional studio wrestling where we can divide the elements up into good guy/bad guy. 90% of the voters are little more than cheerleaders at the big high school football game. Those on the fringe are just that, the fringe and activities like this are meant to keep them in check. Who's going to stand in the way when all these elements come together in a surreal version of Survivor played with 300+ million contestants?
So I ask again, why would anyone with the power to stop this want to stop this? They have nothing to lose. The same people on the left who wailed in agony when the PATRIOT Act passed are now tightlipped since that power is now theirs to wield. Even the cheerleaders have shut up about such triflings as human rights in lieu of finally getting what they want out of the system. "Doesn't it serve them nasty right-wingers to finally get a taste of their own medicine? After all, they did it first..." And that kind of finger pointing will allow this to go on for as long as the powers that be can maintain balance. For today it seems like that could be generations of power at their disposal with little effort.
And left-wing/right-wing are an illusion in today's government meant to keep you asleep and fighting against your fellow man.
We control life, Winston, at all its levels. You are imagining that there is something called human nature which will be outraged by what we do and will turn against us. But we create human nature. Men are infinitely malleable. -1984.
And no number of Facebook memes can stop this beast that we've allowed to come to life.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I wish I had the time and inclination to do a proper rebuttal, but I doubt that you (AC) are worth my time.
I'll just say this: you're fucking nuts and you're making shit up.
"NSA was not only monitoring suspected radical sympathizers, but planned to discredit them based on their web-surfing habits."
1) Preventing this (*EXACTLY THIS*) behavior by the government, is the purpose of the 4th Amendment.
2) When government employees are sworn in, they swear to protect the people from "enemies foreign and domestic." Clearly, The NSA, the *entire* NSA, is a domestic enemy of the USA. See #1 above. So when is the Justice Department going to begin to live up to their sworn duty and bring the NSA to account for their treasonous behavior?
"Trust is good but control is better"
We know the NSA captures a lot of information on everyone. So now, whether you like them or not, you are likely to believe anything the say about anyone. Which means the NSA can discredit, blackmail, manipulate, or destroy anyone they want. It does not matter whether the information they have is real or fabricated. There is no way to successfully refute anything they say about anyone.
What a monster we have created.
Proverbs 21:19
Or it's all just a game. Really, what devastating info has come to light so far? Nothing that any country with their own intelligence agency didn't already know about and likely do as well. It has set up a soap box for political grandstanding, but has it really changed any relationships or policies?
The fact that you aren't horrified isn't so much a measure of how unimportant the revelations are so much as your own cynicism and willingness to accept a terrible situation as just "business as usual." Democracies can only die when the people accept oppression as natural and proper.
And this article would be more appropriately titled "NSA prepared to expose hypocrisy of porn browsing religious radicals".
Two problems with this:
1) The government has a history of pulling this against its own citizens when they threaten the status quo. See COINTELPRO and MLK.
2) Hypocrisy is offensive, but doesn't invalidate a person's argument of how people should act, even if they can't live up to it. MLK would be a great example of this. He was a religious man who had a message of tolerance and justice. He also may or may not have had extramarital affairs. (He at the very least had straying eyes.) Would revealing this to the public negate the truth of his message? Maybe not, but it would be an excuse to shout that truth down and stifle it from spreading.
Encouraging people to accept ad hominem attacks as legitimate, even when it's for people advocating beliefs you find abhorrent, is a dangerous game. It's short-sighted, amoral, and displays the "all that matters is the ends" mentality that has gotten our country into so many risky and stupid entanglements before. Pretty much all of modern politics can be traced back to "pragmatic" things done during the Cold War and the fallout from putting advantage over principle.
Not to downplay the treason of Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning, but it hasn't exactly been the end of the world.
These two people are heroes, not traitors. They saw a great rot at the core of our nation, and rather than sit silently and watch as it ate deeper and deeper, they put their lives and freedom on the line to let people know so that we could act. If their actions have been ineffective, it has been more because of the nihilists like yourself than because of flaws in their motives.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Um what?
If the idea is that this activity is being legitimized by fighting Terrorism, I don't quite buy it...
NSA: "Stop being a terrorist, or we will blackmail you by showing all your terrorist buddies all the lewd websites you visit!"
Terrorist: "I am going to stop being a lunatic and be rational for a second. A) Do you really think that is something that might dissuade a terrorist, or make a terrorist feel even more warm and fuzzy about the USA? B) Do you really think my terrorist buddies will believe the NSA (I mean come on we can get them to believe anything, but coming from you... lol)? C) Who exactly are you going to tell? Do you have lists of terrorist buddies? Because I think if you did, you might do something a bit more constructive with it. OK back to the crazy...
This seems like something that is far more likely to be politically motivated than anything to do with terrorism.
"very few of the targeted contacts were associated with terrorism""
After being blackmailed and harassed by the US government their views towards state target terrorism might change.
Every single one of those women were having sex with a married man. Adulterously against MLK's wife.
And any of those women married? Don't care.
But cheating on your wife? "Scumbag!".
Ensuring that I'm not posting as AC to help drive this in...
Just because sex and nudity is considered taboo and only for deviants by all of the repressed Mericans, doesn't mean that everyone will be embarrassed by making it visible. Some of the other stuff may help discredit, but not the porn.
My sausage tree didn't grow, does that make me a bad mommy?
Keep in mind that "radical" simply means "has different political opinions than those with the most political power". This was a direct suppression of everything democracy stands for and every value this country was founded to protect. The NSA has not only committed illegal acts, they have committed high treason.
I'm the same person I was 30 years ago, in that I would answer questions about morality, and what's right vs. what's wrong pretty much the same way as my 1983 self.
It's the NSA that's become radicalized.
One wonders if the beast is an inevitability of technically advanced civilizations. You look at what the people of North Korea or a Belarus tolerate, when all logic says that those regimes are so awful and incompetent that the people should rise up and cast down the tyrants.
As much as I like to think humanity is on an upward course, I'm truly beginning to think the Enlightenment was a brief, anomalous period that, if its effects haven't ended, are on a continuing decline. Science has been brought into disrepute because it disagrees with the the money men. Liberties have been compromised at every turn with excuses that range from "Oh God, Terrorists" or "But what about the children!!!" to the more naked "We do it because we can." Our art has been dumbed down to the point where culture is defined by the latest Lady Gaga wig or some guy throwing his own excrement at at a wall is called art. Sure we have lots of technical advancements, but even there, the drive to fund basic research is dying in the West as short-sighted politicians try direct funding towards limited and specified goals; in no small part, I think, because the money men that own them don't like it when basic research turns up the error of their ways.
I feel like the West is declining, even as Asia and Latin America, however haltingly and unsteadily, are literally shooting for the stars. Sure, they may be a half century behind us in some respects, but they're closing the gap rapidly and seem to have the drive that the West once had. Look at geopolitics. The West decolonized Africa, and now China is recolonizing it.
Maybe that's the natural order. One civilization fades and another takes its place. The West has had its time in the sun, as the Song, Romans, Akkadians, Egyptians and Athenians did in their day, but those outside the walls are quick to learn and have the hunger to use it.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
At least it is only on the internet, and not with boots on the ground. I'm sure the NSA would never do anything crazy, like stage a sexual assault case against a foreign activist that was publishing state secrets.
What's sad is he's only a little bit nuts. What was once a lunatic conspiracy theorist rant is now a lunatic conspiracy nut rant based on widely acknowledged actual facts, not just theory. He's making shit up, but he's making up a lot less than he used to have to.
This what the GCHQ always warned the political leadership about. The GCHQ always just wanted to watch and be seen as just tracking the Russia/Soviet (or other distant bad country).
The UK political leadership wanted winning results in open courts wrt to crypto, logs and web/cell tracking.
Now even the "winning results" of logs and web/cell tracking will be seen as digital constructs.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"