Jolla's First Phone Goes On Sale

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Jolla's First Phone Goes On Sale

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @07:49AM from the jolla-jolla-bill-y'all dept.

jones_supa writes "Jolla, the mobile phone company formed by ex-Nokia employees, has officially launched its first phone. It will be initially available in Finland, paired with the local telecom operator DNA. After that, it will be made available in 135 other countries. The Jolla handset runs the Sailfish OS, which is itself based on the former MeeGo platform developed by Nokia and Intel several years ago to produce Linux-based smartphone software. Sailfish can run Android apps and it also integrates Nokia's Here mapping and positioning technology. Looking at the hardware, the device sports a 1.4GHz dual-core Qualcomm processor, 1GB memory and 16GB of flash storage, plus a 4.5in 960x540 IPS touchscreen with Gorilla 2 Glass. It has the usual mobile network support, including GSM/3G/4G, 802.11b/g/n WiFi and Bluetooth, 8MP autofocus rear camera and 2MP front camera. SIM-free pricing is expected to be €399."

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Paired with.... by Apotekaren · 2013-11-27 07:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

Paired with here means that the phones are sold by the telecom operator in their stores(first the pre-orders are fullfilled), but there are no requirements for contracts and no sim-locking.
The online shop is Jollas own. I just paid for my pre-order phone through their website.

--
She: Hey, are you a traitor? Me: No, I'm atheist.
1. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  So how do they make money if they don't sim lock? I mean, I'm all for that but it doesn't make a lot of sense from a business perspective.
2. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:34 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  By charging a price that covers their cost; what's so mysterious?
3. Re:Paired with.... by Jmc23 · 2013-11-27 08:36 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Ah you silly USians.
  
  --
  Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
4. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So how do they make money if they don't sim lock?
  This is how you know the providers have won, when consumers wonder why they're NOT being treated like dirt.
5. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:27 · Score: 0
  
  400 euro? No thanks, that's a rip-off.
6. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:48 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  By charging a price that covers their cost; what's so mysterious?
  Mysterious? You can't think of anything mysterious? Try this: The average person can't work out that
  24 * 100 > 1000
  Add that to the fact that the average person pays for roaming rather than just redirecting their phone and buying a local SIM card where they go (that phone you pay an extra 1400 for over two years doesn't work abroad!!). Once you start realising this is mysterious you will be able to find no end of mystery in the world.
  In the end, the real mystery is: what will be your next phone bill.
7. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:16 · Score: 0
  
  So how do they make money if they don't sim lock?
  The same way everyone else does. SIM-locking isn't actually "normal" practice at all - that it's accepted practice in the US is an anomaly.
8. Re:Paired with.... by r1348 · 2013-11-27 10:32 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You're describing the American mobile market, things in Europe work very differently: most people buy a SIM-free phone and then use the operator they wish. Phone contracts cover only a very limited part of the market (iPhones, mostly).
9. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:40 · Score: 0
  
  Mysterious? You can't think of anything mysterious? Try this: The average american can't work out that 24 * 100 > 1000
  FTFY, the rest of the world isn't subjected to this idiocy. Also I suspect that $2400 cost is for more than just the phone, I expect a significant portion is for you know, usage of the telco's network? But even then $100 seems high, is that the average in America?
10. Re:Paired with.... by realityimpaired · 2013-11-27 12:54 · Score: 1
  
  No offense intended... but either you're bonkers, or I'm missing something here....
  
  Looking at the hardware, the device sports a 1.4GHz dual-core Qualcomm processor, 1GB memory and 16GB of flash storage, plus a 4.5in 960x540 IPS touchscreen with Gorilla 2 Glass. It has the usual mobile network support, including GSM/3G/4G, 802.11b/g/n WiFi and Bluetooth, 8MP autofocus rear camera and 2MP front camera. SIM-free pricing is expected to be €399.
  On reading this, from TFS, my immediate reaction was "so, basically like the HTC Desire 601 I have, only for about $200 more than I paid"... sure, the Desire only has a 5MP rear camera, but otherwise on paper appears to be almost identical in every way.
  While I appreciate that these folks are trying to do something important, and I do think that having a viable alternative to IOS and Android is a good thing, I honestly don't see the benefit to buying this one over mid-range Android devices that can be had at retail (no subsidy/contract) for about $300 CAD.
11. Re:Paired with.... by realityimpaired · 2013-11-27 13:26 · Score: 2
  
  But even then $100 seems high, is that the average in America?
  For a heavy plan in the states or Canada, yes. That's about accurate. You *can* get plans for less, but the incumbents usually throw around arguments about the geography involved in rolling out a network when challenged on their pricing and how it compares to Europe or Japan. We'll ignore the fact that 90% of Canada's population lives within 100mi of the US border, and that 81% of our population is urban, clearly we need to roll out a cellular network that can provide service to the caribou up on Baffin Island, and so we need to charge the folks living in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc., to subsidize the coverage for the caribou... but I'm not bitter.....
  More realistically, I don't think it's that people can't work out that $2400 is more than the cost of buying the phone outright. It's a combination of factors. First, the poor tax. If you don't happen to have $500 kicking around to buy a phone, then you will probably not be able to get that phone unless you sign up for a subsidized contract. The smart answer would be to buy a cheaper phone that you *can* afford, but there's a lot of money being poured into the advertising and marketing for the latest and greatest devices, and a lot of pressure on people to upgrade to a phone they shouldn't really be able to afford.
  The second reason is that the incumbent cellular carriers, in Canada at least, don't really give you a significant discount for bringing your own phone rather than subsidizing it. Most of them will give you 10% off the price of the monthly contract... wowee... you save $10/mo on a $100 contract, which adds up to $240 over a 2-year contract. And you have to ask for it at the point of sale... if you don't ask for the discount, then the price of a subsidized contract is the same as the price for an unsubsidized contract, so there's no real savings for not letting them subsidize your phone, as long as you plan to stay with the same carrier and phone for the duration of the contract. The problem comes when somebody comes along with a better deal... which happens fairly regularly. Because you've signed on to a contract, it'll often cost you more to switch than you stand to save over the life of the contract... but people don't tend to think of cellular service in those terms, at least in this country.
12. Re:Paired with.... by mirix · 2013-11-27 14:18 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It isn't android, that's the whole point.
  
  --
  Sent from my PDP-11
13. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-27 15:09 · Score: 2
  
  Yes but will you still be using your HTC as long as I've been using my N900? This proposes to fill that niche of an updatable phone so that you don't want a new phone every two years. In the long run it may be cheaper.
14. Re:Paired with.... by exomondo · 2013-11-27 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  This proposes to fill that niche of an updatable phone so that you don't want a new phone every two years.
  But do you need a device more updateable than the average Android phone? Given your comment about usage of the N900 I would say the answer is probably 'no', and if OEMs get on board why would you expect the update schedule for Sailfish to be any different?
15. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-27 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  But the average Android phone is NOT upgradeable and eventually gets locked out of the newer apps.
16. Re:Paired with.... by exomondo · 2013-11-27 17:32 · Score: 1
  
  But the average Android phone is NOT upgradeable and eventually gets locked out of the newer apps.
  Is that really the average though?
  Given your comment about the N900, does that even matter?
  Why would it be any different with Sailfish than Android?
17. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 17:47 · Score: 0
  
  More realistically, I don't think it's that people can't work out that $2400 is more than the cost of buying the phone outright.
  I'm sure people *can* work that out! The $2400 is not just for the phone. Even if you buy a phone outright you then have to pay to use a network, this is true of all countries. Outside the US/Canada the costs are generally quite reasonable.
18. Re:Paired with.... by gl4ss · 2013-11-27 17:58 · Score: 3
  
  if you buy from the finnish operators they'll flat out tell you on the material how much you're going to be paying for the phone.
  basically you just sign up for a partial payment plan unless you just outright buy it.
  anyhow, you can get all you can eat dataplans(suitable for running torrents 24/7) at varying speeds starting from around 7-8 euros / month.
  there's no "you have to buy a phone for ridiculous price or pay for it anyways" system there. in the gsm era it was illegal to simlock phones... so it all stems from there. biggest mistake ever usa did with their mobile networks was to allow locked phones and techs. you could have had much wider and faster adoption otherwise(and well, paying for incoming calls shit too, what a joke! we never had that).
  anyways, good luck for jolla and better late than never!(about a year ago I was at one of their developer workshops).
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
19. Re:Paired with.... by temotodochi · 2013-11-27 19:14 · Score: 1
  
  I hope you do realize that you pay much more than that if you buy the phone sim-locked? The way this works is that if I pay full price for the phone, i can choose whichever operator i wish with minimal costs. And i'm talking about 5 euros per month with next to free phone calls and unlimited data. Oh and sending SMS is 5cents, receiving them is free. 15 euros per month if i want unlimited AND unthrottled data plan.
20. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-27 19:35 · Score: 1
  
  Because it's not locked down and you can boot it with something other than the original software, just like the N900. That gives the option, just like the N900, than if the original supplier loses interest there may still remain a community of people providing updates and current applications.
  All those android phones that need to be cracked just to install some apps and are fixed on a specific version (sometimes quite an old one on a new phone) do not have such flexibility. Personally I think that limits their likely lifespan. How many other phones of the N900 vintage can even do anything with qcodes? Those things just did not seem important at the time and now they are everywhere. I'm pretty sure the N900 couldn't do anything with them at release either but thanks to both OS and app updates it can now. How's that for an example of the value of a phone that can be customised a bit as distinct from one that is abandoned by it's maker after six months and is too tightly locked down for anyone else to do anything with it? Maybe you don't need to get a new phone just because you want to do X that you hadn't thought of at the time.
21. Re:Paired with.... by bingoUV · 2013-11-27 21:59 · Score: 1
  
  All those android phones that need to be cracked just to install some apps
  I don't see too many of them. Samsung and HTC have vowed to keep the bootloaders open, since 2-3 years. They have been true to it. Sony have an application downloadable from their own website to open bootloaders of their phones, the application works for most of Sony phones (though not all).
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
22. Re:Paired with.... by Chrisq · 2013-11-27 22:21 · Score: 1
  
  Who the fuck is paying $100 per month just for a phone? Nobody! If you are then you need to get your fucking head checked.
  Satellite phone maybe
23. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 22:32 · Score: 0
  
  Where did I say anything about buying a locked phone? Please don't put words into other peoples' mouths, it makes you look like an idiot.
  FYI, my phone is an unlocked Optimus 4X HD (Tegra 3 SoC, quad core Cortex-A9, GeForce ULP, 1GB RAM, 720x1280 resolution, 16GB internal storage, microSD) which I bought last year for $300 USD. It beats out the Jolla in almost every way. If I were to upgrade, I'd go for a Nexus 5, which is only $350.
  Yeah, sorry but â400 ($543 USD) is way too much for this thing. It is a rip-off.
24. Re:Paired with.... by Mjlner · 2013-11-27 22:35 · Score: 1
  
  So how do they make money if they don't sim lock? I mean, I'm all for that but it doesn't make a lot of sense from a business perspective.
  What a weird opinion. The concept of SELLING stuff usually implies making money. Why would they not make money from selling phones? Are you assuming that they give away phones for free?
  
  --
  Lemon curry???
25. Re:Paired with.... by greenfruitsalad · 2013-11-27 22:37 · Score: 1
  
  to give USians a real example of how different EU market is:
  I pay Â£7 a month ($11.41) for 250 minutes, 500 texts and 500MB on a 1 month rolling contract (i.e. i can move to different provider any time i want without a penalty.) http://www.talkmobile.co.uk/tariffs/sim-only
  being a geek that I am, i use about 3 of those 250 minutes, 3 texts and 499 MB. all this thanks to sim cards and unlocked phones.
26. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 22:54 · Score: 0
  
  Cyanogenmod and 3rd party ROMs. Most Android phones can be updated.
27. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 22:57 · Score: 1
  
  lol, resistive touchscreen. that's an instant fail.
28. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-27 23:22 · Score: 1
  
  That's a very positive trend but there still seem to be quite a few not following it.
29. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 00:41 · Score: 1
  
  Err no they don't most buy phones on a contract & get it locked to an operator.
  Some pay the up front cost & buy an unlocked phone but they are the minority.
30. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 00:52 · Score: 0
  
  If they sim locked nobody would buy them. So sim locking is not the way to make money over here. We actually really love our freedom, and like the idea of not being locked in some contract.
31. Re:Paired with.... by gbjbaanb · 2013-11-28 01:06 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  In europe, phone contracts are still the most popular way to get a phone but the phones are nearly always unlocked (especially nowadays) and can be reused after the contract ends by putting a payg sim in, or migrating to a sim-only contract (which seem to be increasingly popular)
  The thing the US carriers don't get is that people will always go with a contract as it spreads the cost of their new phone out, like buying one with a finance deal. They don't need to be locked at all. Even if you sell a sim-only contract, you make money off the punter, you only need to subsidise handsets if you have an exclusive deal for a must-have new model,and even then.. people will come to you to buy them anyway.
  The US carrier lockdown is simply stupid, something in place by executives who can only think they exist to abuse their customers rather than provide a competitive service. America, ha.
32. Re:Paired with.... by gbjbaanb · 2013-11-28 01:11 · Score: 1
  
  and I should refer you to the Three provider's PaYG sims that currently offer a tariff of 1 penny per megabyte, or the Â£15 deal that gives you unlimited data.
33. Re:Paired with.... by bingoUV · 2013-11-28 01:30 · Score: 1
  
  You said the "average" Android phone is not upgradable. "Quite a few not following it" is not enough for an "average" Android phone not being upgradable. When the big daddy of all Android phones, Samsung, is following the "trend", and nearly the next 2 (HTC and Sony) almost following it too.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
34. Re:Paired with.... by Eunuchswear · 2013-11-28 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  But even then $100 seems high, is that the average in America?
  For a heavy plan in the states or Canada, yes
  What is a "heavy plan"?
  I pay 30EUR for unlimited calls & SMS in France, unlimited alls to European land lines and unlimited calls to the US. 6Gb data at 3G speeds, unlimited data at EDGE speeds.
  Is that a "heavy plan"?
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
35. Re:Paired with.... by Eunuchswear · 2013-11-28 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  Damn, typo/braino. Thats 20EUR, not 30EUR.
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
36. Re:Paired with.... by Eunuchswear · 2013-11-28 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  You're being ripped off.
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
37. Re:Paired with.... by realityimpaired · 2013-11-28 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  You can't get a plan like that in Canada.. but for comparison with Bell Canada (one of the 3 big players in the market) --
  $95/mo "Data Lite" plan -- Unlimited Canadian LD, Unlimited minutes, Unlimited Canadian SMS, 6GB of LTE data (which will fall back to 3G where LTE isn't available). This plan does not include unlimited at EDGE speeds, it's 6GB, end of discussion.
  $15/mo US calling addon -- This adds the US long distance to the above plan.
  Total == $110/mo for a plan similar to what you have for 20 EUR. And with the $95/mo plan, there are certain phones you can't get them to subsidize... if you want them to subsidize more expensive phones like an iPhone or a Samsung Galaxy 4, you need to buy a more expensive plan... the 6GB equivalent on *that* plan is $120/mo, plus $15/mo for the US calling.
  Now, your plan has some things that this plan wouldn't, like unlimited EDGE data, but this plan has a few things yours doesn't -- it doesn't care whether you're calling a land line or a cellular phone in its calculation of the minutes. At the end of the day, I'd rather your plan.
38. Re:Paired with.... by Eunuchswear · 2013-11-28 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  And with the $95/mo plan, there are certain phones you can't get them to subsidize
  My plan has no phone, it's bring your own.
  
  Now, your plan has some things that this plan wouldn't, like unlimited EDGE data, but this plan has a few things yours doesn't -- it doesn't care whether you're calling a land line or a cellular phone in its calculation of the minutes.
  Yeah, it's 'cos of the America/Europe difference in who pays for celular calls - over here it's more expensive to call a cellular, but it's free to receive calls. As I understand it over there you (sometimes?) pay to get calls.
  
  At the end of the day, I'd rather your plan.
  You need to convince Xavier Niel to wage war on the American operators like he's been doing to the French ones.
  (American used in the sense of continent, not country).
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
39. Re:Paired with.... by realityimpaired · 2013-11-28 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  You need to convince Xavier Niel to wage war on the American operators like he's been doing to the French ones.
  Probably won't happen in this country... we have Canadian ownership laws that restrict the percentage stake in a telecomm company that can be held out of the country. We've had a few smaller competitors try to rock the boat already, but it mostly seems to have been unsuccessful... most of the challengers are in talks with one or more of the incumbents in order to sell out, sadly. :(
40. Re:Paired with.... by exomondo · 2013-11-28 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  Because it's not locked down and you can boot it with something other than the original software, just like the N900
  and just like most of the major Android phones like the Nexus devices and devices from Samsung and HTC. But those OEMs that do have locked bootloaders for Android would also be able to have locked bootloaders for Sailfish anyway so it would be no different.
  
  All those android phones that need to be cracked just to install some apps and are fixed on a specific version (sometimes quite an old one on a new phone) do not have such flexibility.
  No, not all of them do, and for those that do even if they had Sailfish on them instead of Android they would still have exactly the same problem. Locked bootloaders or lack of driver updates is not a problem of Android, it's a problem of OEMs and would be no different with Sailfish.
41. Re:Paired with.... by exomondo · 2013-11-28 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  I hope you do realize that you pay much more than that if you buy the phone sim-locked? The way this works is that if I pay full price for the phone, i can choose whichever operator i wish with minimal costs.
  But why would you pay for the Jolla phone when you can get the unlocked Nexus 5 - which is far superior hardware - for much less cost? Especially when their 'Android compatibility' means you could run Sailfish on it anyway.
42. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-28 14:21 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not looking for a juvenile argument merely expressing an opinion based on the locked down Samsung and other phones I have seen, an opinion that fully locked down phones are likely to have less usable life than open ones. It is positive that Samsung is apparently changing that policy.
43. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-28 14:25 · Score: 1
  
  would also be able to have locked bootloaders for Sailfish anyway so it would be no different
  There is only one vendor and they do not have a locked bootloader so what motivation do you have for bringing such an irrelevant thing up? Can we just have some sort of discussion here instead of a very childish game?
44. Re:Paired with.... by exomondo · 2013-11-28 15:19 · Score: 1
  
  There is only one vendor and they do not have a locked bootloader so what motivation do you have for bringing such an irrelevant thing up?
  It isn't irrelevant at all, Jolla intends for other OEMs to make Sailfish phones and if OEMs that lock bootloaders on Android phones start making Sailfish phones they could do the same thing there so Sailfish is no better from that perspective. But ultimately that niche of an updatable phone that you think this serves is already served by the multitude of bootloader-unlocked Android phones from Samsung, HTC and the Nexus line so that niche gets no advantage by going with Sailfish and they would have to put up with paying more money for inferior hardware.
  You would be far better off with a Nexus5 as it is cheaper, it is far superior hardware, it is unlocked and it can run Sailfish OS if you want.
  Even then, if updates are so important then why are you evangelizing N900? It hasn't had any updates in years.
45. Re:Paired with.... by bingoUV · 2013-11-28 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not looking for a juvenile argument
  
  In that case, have you considered not making juvenile statements?
  
  merely expressing an opinion based on the locked down Samsung and other phones I have seen
  In that case, have you considered reading up on the meaning of "average"?
  
  an opinion that fully locked down phones are likely to have less usable life than open ones
  In that case, have you considered using English to express your opinion? It is helping no one if you use a language apparently similar to English but in which opinions about locked down phones are expressed by declaring "average" Android phones to be locked down Android phones.
  
  It is positive that Samsung is apparently changing that policy.
  Another interesting aspect of your language - present continuous tense being used for something that happened more than 2 years ago.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
46. Re:Paired with.... by GauteL · 2013-11-28 21:20 · Score: 1
  
  On reading this, from TFS, my immediate reaction was "so, basically like the HTC Desire 601 I have, only for about $200 more than I paid"... sure, the Desire only has a 5MP rear camera, but otherwise on paper appears to be almost identical in every way.
  While I appreciate that these folks are trying to do something important, and I do think that having a viable alternative to IOS and Android is a good thing, I honestly don't see the benefit to buying this one over mid-range Android devices that can be had at retail (no subsidy/contract) for about $300 CAD.
  It really isn't fair to compare the price in Europe in euros to a price in Canada in CAD. The price in Euros is priced to the European market with VAT and the European warranty requirements built in. You can't just convert the prices with a currency calculator and a European can't just legally order from Canada without paying VAT and import duties.
  The HTC Desire is not to the best of my knowledge available contract free for CAD 300 in Europe and the Jolla won't cost EUR 399 when marketed in Canada.
47. Re:Paired with.... by dbIII · 2013-11-29 00:15 · Score: 2
  
  Look - you wanted to know why people have such an opinion and I told you why. Anecdotes about some new Samsung phone that isn't locked down as much as their old ones may be interesting but some people such as myself, rightly or wrongly, have the perception that something that actually strives to be open as a selling point may be better in the long run.
  
  then why are you evangelizing N900
  Try reading what is above again. There is a major difference between an example and "evangelizing". Also there have been updates this year from third parties due to the thing being open - which is kind of my point and I'm a little surprised that you haven't picked up on it despite so many posts on the subject. The thing is heavy, slower than newer phone which matters for some apps, and battery life with wifi on is short, but it's a example of something that people have kept for as long as the hardware is good enough because the software can be kept up to date no matter what Nokia think of it. I'm "evangelizing" that practice and not the specific phone. I'll cheer for whoever sets up a system so that their phone is relevant for five years or more independent of who they are. Jolla looks like they are doing that especially with their ability to run non-native apps so that even if the platform tanks immediately the adopters are not left out in the cold. Please don't point out that Jolla did not develop that android compatibility layer themselves - the relevant thing is it comes with the system not who they are licencing it from.
48. Re:Paired with.... by Echemus · 2013-11-29 01:39 · Score: 1
  
  An $85 + Tax (at 14%) plan in Ontario will get you pretty much unlimited nation wide calling and 1GB of Data (on an LTE Network) you will also get Voice Mail and Caller Id. That costs near enough $100. Plus, if you want to have a recent phone you will have to pony up at least $100 or more up front. In the UK (where I lived until last year) you were looking at perhaps $55 (including tax at 20%) for a similar contract.
  You can go cheaper in Canada, the almost cartel-like companies that control the mobile industry in Canada have lower tier "Networks" that offer cheaper contracts (the $85 plan above can be found for $60) but you have to sacrifice not being able to have access to the latest handsets. Finally there are the third tier "Networks" that have next to no coverage, outside of city centres, where you can find a similar plan for about $40, without a device and no LTE.
  None of these plans are generous in their allowances. Wind (a seller of the $40 plans) claims to provide "unlimited data" but realistically that is subject to a Fair Use Agreement which means anything over 6GB you are asked to pay more, or have your bandwidth reduced)
  Canada is probably one of the most expensive places to own a mobile phone
49. Re:Paired with.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 05:31 · Score: 0
  
  Why are you such an obvious DOUCHE BAG SHILL?
50. Re:Paired with.... by Shirley+Marquez · 2013-11-30 13:35 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, that would qualify as a heavy plan. And it would cost a lot more in the US. From the major carriers, a comparable plan would be $70/month (T-Mobile), $80/month (Sprint), $120/month (Verizon), or $125/month (AT&T). And calls outside the US cost extra. T-Mobile no longer subsidizes phones; the other three carriers do. You can do a little better by going prepaid on a minor carrier ($55/month on Virgin Mobile and $60/month on Metro PCS are two examples), but can't get as low as your price.
  If your phone is mostly a text and data device (you don't talk much) you can get substantially lower prepaid prices, such as $30/month from T-Mobile prepaid (100 minutes + 5GB data) or $35/month from Virgin (300 minutes + unlimited data).
51. Re:Paired with.... by exomondo · 2013-11-30 18:24 · Score: 1
  
  Anecdotes about some new Samsung phone that isn't locked down as much as their old ones may be interesting but some people such as myself, rightly or wrongly, have the perception that something that actually strives to be open as a selling point may be better in the long run.
  Which is what the Nexus phones have always been and now HTC and Samsung have been joining those ranks, the Jolla phone still lacks open drivers for its hardware components so it isn't actually a step forward in openness from the existing Nexus phones. So my point is that you don't gain anything with Jolla yet you still have to pay a premium price for outdated hardware. The Nexus 5 for example has all the openness - like the Nexus phones always have - that the Jolla phone has but is much cheaper and much better hardware, and as a virtue of its openness you can apparently run Sailfish OS on it too if you want to.
Yawn by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:00 · Score: 0

I'll stick to my iPhone, thanks.
-- Posted from my Windows RT Surface
Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:01 · Score: 5, Funny

... can it run Linu ... Yes? Oh, right. Nevermind.
1. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:32 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  There's more GNU/Linux in this thing than most if not all Android computers.
2. Re:Yes, but... by marcello_dl · 2013-11-27 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  You passed a good opportunity to imagine a beowulf cluster of them, too bad.
  
  --
  ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
3. Re:Yes, but... by oodaloop · 2013-11-27 09:15 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It's never too late to imagine beowullf clusters!
  
  --
  Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
4. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 15:22 · Score: 0
  
  ...does it blend?
5. Re:Yes, but... by aliquis · 2013-11-28 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  Imagine a beowulf cluster of imagined beowulf clusters!
6. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 20:20 · Score: 0
  
  Search for projects hosted under nemomobile, mermobile, etc on github.
  Some examples:
  https://github.com/nemomobile/
  https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/
  https://github.com/mer-packages
  https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution
  http://review.merproject.org/
7. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 00:31 · Score: 0
  
  Imagine a beowulf cluster of imagined beowulf clusters of imagined beowulf clusters of actual beowulf clusters! Pardon me - I'm off go patent the beowulf quaternion.
8. Re:Yes, but... by aliquis · 2013-11-29 01:55 · Score: 1
  
  Damnit. Wish I had typed it five times in a row then. Guess prior work for part of the process isn't enough :(
9. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  I know... imagine a beowulf cluster of them!
10. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 04:33 · Score: 0
  
  But what would Beowulf do?
How about porting it... by unixisc · 2013-11-27 08:02 · Score: 1

...to Nokia phones, such as Lumia and their other brand name phones??
1. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:05 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  First things first. Let them get themselves established, away from the history of Nokia's self-dealing CEO, and show that the direction the company was going before he sabotaged it is a viable business model. Then maybe they can consider whether they can afford to attempt to rescue Nokia's current customers.
2. Re:How about porting it... by jovius · 2013-11-27 08:09 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Phones capable of running Android are their major target. Interview of the CEO from today:
  
  In addition to applications, Jolla exploits Android’s ecosystem also in another way. Jolla’s Sailfish operating system works in almost any Android device. Due to this Jolla can subcontract its devices for a reasonable price from any smart phone manufacturing company in Asia.
  ....
  One more plus for Jolla is that the Android compatibility makes it very easy for other smart phone companies now using Android to change their OS to Jolla’s Sailfish.
  ....
  According to Pienimäki, Jolla is also planning to let individual users to download Sailfish operating system into their Android-devices.
3. Re:How about porting it... by CRCulver · 2013-11-27 08:11 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Lumia phones have an encrypted bootloader. Windows Mobile is the only operating system that can be installed. While there may be a way around this, it has not be discovered by the hacker community yet.
4. Re:How about porting it... by richtopia · 2013-11-27 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  I would prefer to see it ported to Nexus devices, as it appears that they are the standard for development operating systems. Ubuntu's phone's demo has been on the Nexus 4, and I believe there has been similar efforts with FirefoxOS. Plus, I want a reason to buy the Nexus 5.
5. Re:How about porting it... by preflex · 2013-11-27 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  There is an unofficial build for the N9.
6. Re:How about porting it... by Nerdfest · 2013-11-27 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  In addition, buying Nokia phones to run other operating systems on would give them money.
7. Re:How about porting it... by CanHasDIY · 2013-11-27 09:08 · Score: 0
  
  One more plus for Jolla is that the Android compatibility makes it very easy for other smart phone companies now using Android to change their OS to Jolla’s Sailfish.
  Yawn.
  Wake me when they release the source and a step-by-step instructable for replacing the current Android build on my paid-for celly.
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
8. Re:How about porting it... by Microlith · 2013-11-27 09:15 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  It's also interesting to note that Wayland just shipped on a device. So much for it being "hard to fit into a mobile device." Thanks to libhybris, they just wrap the Android blob for the GPU and continue on like a standard glibc-based Linux system.
9. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:32 · Score: 0
  
  How about Asha? Can it be ported there?
10. Re:How about porting it... by marcello_dl · 2013-11-27 09:34 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  step one, locate trashcan
  step two, throw celly into trashcan
  step three, get fined for not properly disposing of electronic stuff that contains all sorts of evil substances, other than the OS I mean.
  step four, get the jolla.
  
  --
  ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
11. Re:How about porting it... by unixisc · 2013-11-27 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  Incidentally, what display manager does Sailfish use? X11? Wayland? Something else?
12. Re:How about porting it... by Microlith · 2013-11-27 09:55 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Wayland. On every one of these Jolla devices. X11 was being used early on until recent versions of Qt were released, which added the Qt Compositor API, allowing them to create their own compositor (and do some rather interesting things.)
13. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:05 · Score: 1
  
  Yawn.
  Wake me when they release the source and a step-by-step instructable for replacing the current Android build on my paid-for celly.
  Right you need everything done for you. Geeks and hackers used to be about working around limitations to do cool stuff, now drones like you have resulted in it becoming the pursuit of those who just want everything laid out for them and want all the corporations to build open devices for you and instead of being innovative you just complain when there is a limitation and wait for somebody else to come up with a solution.
  So how about you get off your lazy ass and actually contribute something rather than just being a whiny bitch because everything doesnt go your way.
14. Re:How about porting it... by exomondo · 2013-11-27 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  But is this going to be particularly useful to people? The issues with gesture-based OSes (Meego Harmattan and Blackberry 10 in particular) is they are not discoverable and the spatial awareness problem is tricky, add to that the fact that swiping from the edges gets in the way if you are playing games - which is the key reason Apple had to add the ability to turn off the iOS Control Center swiping gesture. But most importantly the gesture based interface doesn't really add anything of value.
15. Re:How about porting it... by jbolden · 2013-11-27 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  Jolla offers licensing of Sailfish: https://sailfishos.org/about-alliance.html
16. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 14:33 · Score: 0
  
  Where've you been. Geeks and Hackers were replaced by peeps and crackers in 2005.
17. Re:How about porting it... by gl4ss · 2013-11-27 18:30 · Score: 1
  
  you can just forget lumias - locked bootloaders.
  it should be pretty portable to pretty much any android device though(afaik they built it to use the same kernel drivers, that way they can subcontract phones way easier from any manufacturer that does android phones). they made some press release about this couple of months back if my memory serves me right.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
18. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 19:34 · Score: 0
  
  Welcome aboard: https://sailfishos.org/
19. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 20:04 · Score: 0
  
  step five, profit!
20. Re:How about porting it... by Patch86 · 2013-11-27 20:05 · Score: 1
  
  Did anyone say that Wayland was "hard to fit into a mobile device"? Presumably you're digging at Canonical, but I never heard that argument. I thought their line was that they had some requirements in order to get their "seamlessly switch from phone GUI to desktop GUI to TV GUI" features working which were being blocked.
  Most smartphones are more powerful than the X11 desktop computers of just a few years ago; I don't think anyone has realistically been claiming that they wouldn't be able to to run a normal display server.
21. Re:How about porting it... by Iskender · 2013-11-28 02:45 · Score: 1
  
  Most smartphones are more powerful than the X11 desktop computers of just a few years ago; I don't think anyone has realistically been claiming that they wouldn't be able to to run a normal display server.
  More powerful when they have power. A powerful desktop can run something that uses 10% of resources constantly without a problem. A powerful phone, not so much.
  I'm not saying X11 takes 10% phone power constantly: I don't know. But it could be that X11 is significantly worse for battery life than Wayland, despite running without performance problems. If someone actually has any data, I'd be interested to hear about it.
22. Re:How about porting it... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 03:47 · Score: 0
  
  Which is sad. I loved having X11 on my N9.
23. Re:How about porting it... by serviscope_minor · 2013-11-28 21:16 · Score: 1
  
  But it could be that X11 is significantly worse for battery life than Wayland
  Seems unlikely. If programs aren't doing anything, then neither of the display servers will do anything. Anything beyond that is a driver issue which is more to do with how well drivers support the hardware than the display server itself.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
Hmm I might get one by ickleberry · 2013-11-27 08:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

I am sick of the Android+iPhone duopoly and never liked either of those OS to begin with. Now if they could only make a phone with a hardware keyboard
1. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:12 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's called BlackBerry Q10 (or Q5 if you're on a budget)
2. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  I have a Droid 4 that has a slide out hardware keyboard. Didn't realize that feature was hard to find.
3. Re:Hmm I might get one by Apotekaren · 2013-11-27 08:20 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  One of the most important features is the "Other Half" or whatever they're calling it, which is basically a back cover with a digital interface. There are already projects in motion to produce back covers with slide-out keyboards, extra batteries, among other things.
  This feature has been seriously underplayed, it's one of the most exciting things about the whole phone!
  
  --
  She: Hey, are you a traitor? Me: No, I'm atheist.
4. Re:Hmm I might get one by h4rr4r · 2013-11-27 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  It is on a phone with better specs and an unlocked bootloader.
5. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  I have a Droid 4 that has a slide out hardware keyboard. Didn't realize that feature was hard to find.
  Well, if it's slide out, then it's like stealth, man. That's why no one can find it!
6. Re:Hmm I might get one by marcello_dl · 2013-11-27 08:55 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  As a political choice, or long term strategic move, you might want to support the neo 900.
  
  --
  ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
7. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No. There will be no hardware keyboard "other half." The back of the phone has a camera right in the fucking middle of it. There's no way for a hardware keyboard to fit without doing some shitty folding-butterfly effect to go around the camera.
  Jolla intended for this phone to not have hardware keyboards. They want it to be a proprietary, NFC-enabled "flash drive" that they can patent and team up with artists for exclusive albums and movies. It is only intended to be a new type of media storage, but slow because it uses NFC. There *may* be an FM-transmitter "other half" down the line as well as one with a kickstand. Congratulations, it's a phone cover that changes the theme's colors to match.
  There was a Kickstarter campaign a few weeks ago to build a hardware keyboard for the other half, and it was abandoned because of the camera.
8. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:19 · Score: 0
  
  swype input with a stylus is a lot faster than thumb-typing on a tiny qwerty keyboard.
9. Re:Hmm I might get one by BasilBrush · 2013-11-27 09:34 · Score: 0
  
  Hmm. My first reaction when seeing the photos was: That's the worst seam between front and back I've ever seen.
  Followed by Who the fuck picked that colour!?
10. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:37 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  You open the keyboard from locked, exposing the camera, and incidentally, the actual physical shutter button on the side of the keyboard.
  As one possible design, for example.
11. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:18 · Score: 0
  
  That's quite smart. And it will also protect the camera lens from getting dust, dirt and fingerprints on it. I hate it when I want to take a picture and I realize the phone's camera lens is too dirty.
12. Re:Hmm I might get one by Luckyo · 2013-11-27 10:34 · Score: 2
  
  That's not a seam. That's the back part of the phone, which is replaceable. They're gunning for the setup where various different back panels will be made for the phone, which are paired with the phone though a digital connectors. Some of the ideas I've been hearing so far is things like a sliding keyboard backpanel and so on.
  The "seam" is where this back panel is connected to the phone itself.
13. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  Funny you suggest the Q10/Q5. I checked with my mobile provider. They don't have any Q10s and the Q5s are selling for a much higher price than .... well almost any other phone in their market. I could get a Z10 or a new quad-core Samsung Galaxy for less than the Q5. I know the Q5 was supposed to be BlackBerry's discount phone, but that only works if the phone companies sell them for a reasonable price. Keyboards, it seems, are at a high premium.
14. Re:Hmm I might get one by phoenix_rizzen · 2013-11-27 11:12 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Portrait keyboards, like on the Q10, suck. You lose half the screen to the keyboard, all of the time, making it worse than an onscreen keyboard.
  Landscape sliders are where it's at. You get a full-screen device, with an onscreen keyboard, and access to a full keyboard in landscape without losing any screen space.
  It's just too bad there aren't any QWERTY sliders anymore. :( Was really hoping Motorola under Google would release a Droid5 with flagship hardware and the Photon Q keyboard. Alas, I'm still waiting ...
15. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  I had two X10 Mini Pros, best feature of any smartphone I've ever had - you just flip a nice little QWERTY kbd out, while the whole thing still fits IN the palm of your hand (instead of just sitting on it, like most huge-screened flatphones).
  Alas, it's a little outdated now (even its successor, the Mini Pro), and mine are not working that well anymore, after I dropped one on concrete so hard the SD card flew out of it, and I fell into a river with the other one in my pocket....
  Mind you, they both still work though (!), enough to make calls and whatnot.
16. Re:Hmm I might get one by exomondo · 2013-11-27 13:13 · Score: 2
  
  Funny you suggest the Q10/Q5. I checked with my mobile provider. They don't have any Q10s and the Q5s are selling for a much higher price than .... well almost any other phone in their market.
  Probably because hardware keyboards on smartphones are unpopular, you pay more for niche product particularly when it involves additional hardware.
  
  I could get a Z10 or a new quad-core Samsung Galaxy for less than the Q5.
  But they don't have hardware keyboards, so less hardware along with economies of scale due to their target audience makes them cheaper.
17. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 23:09 · Score: 0
  
  Those tiny thumb keyboards are so passe. With Swype, I can input text using only a single hand much faster than anyone on a mobile phone keyboard.
18. Re:Hmm I might get one by phoenix_rizzen · 2013-11-28 06:14 · Score: 2
  
  Wife had the LG Eve (came out before the X10 Mini Pro) and loved it. Pretty sure she developed calluses from typing on the slide-out keyboard. Then she dropped it off the balcony, and managed to hit one of the stepping stones on the walkway (2" in any direction and it would have landed on grass). Now she has a Galaxy S2 (the HD/LTE version, so basically an S3), and rarely types anything on it.
  I had an Xperia Pro for about a year. It basically replaced my Linux netbook and almost replaced my Windows laptop. VX Connectbot (has keymappings for the Pro) let me access all my Linux/BSD systems at home and work. And typing long e-mails was a breeze. Now I have an Optimus G and rarely type anything anymore. :(
  Still waiting for a flagship Android device to ship with a slider keyboard. I'd like to use my pocket computer for more than browsing Facebook and Youtube. But onscreen keyboards suck for anything relating to actual computer work.
19. Re:Hmm I might get one by toddestan · 2013-11-28 10:52 · Score: 2
  
  Probably because hardware keyboards on smartphones are unpopular, you pay more for niche product particularly when it involves additional hardware.
  Or they figure the only people who want a Blackberry must be business users so they can figure they can charge a healthy premium.
20. Re:Hmm I might get one by Daemonic · 2013-11-28 22:33 · Score: 1
  
  In the UK I'm stuck with my HTC "Desire Z", AKA the G2. That's the last slider I've seen over here. I see others in the US, but retailers won't ship them to me. Luckily my phone still works, and does everything I need it to, so I'm really hoping nothing happens to it.
21. Re:Hmm I might get one by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 06:43 · Score: 0
  
  You do realize that is the precise definition of a seam, right? I could just imagine all of the skin flakes, dirt and hand gunk that gets stuck in there.
22. Re:Hmm I might get one by Luckyo · 2013-11-29 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  Not going to bother arguing semantics, but any dirt that gets stuck between the panels is easily removed by simply removing the back panel and removing whatever dirt got stuck between the panels?
Introducing the new SlashPhone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:06 · Score: 5, Funny

Get hourly updates featuring
-Vague laws misinterpreted by engineers to be threats to privacy/civil liberties
-The latest release of every obscure Linux distro and its shortcomings compared to 10 other distros
-Factually spurious articles about the death of the IT industry
-Philosophical flame wars about the validity of alternative energy/electric cars
-Mental masturbation regarding drones/macs/climate change
-Hypothetical discussions of Rasberry Pi created by Arduino driven 3-D printers purchased with BitCoins
-Windows 8 trolling
Available Apps Include
-Car Analogy Generator
-Library of Congress Unit Conversion
-XKCD Reference Linker
-Shill Detector
-Basement Leak Sensor
-Voice Wreck Ignition Citation Search Engine
Fully compatible with
Â¦Android
Â¦BlackBerry 10
Â¦iOS
Â¦Nokia Asha
Â¦Sailfish OS
Â¦Windows Phone
Â¦Windows RT
Â¦Bada
Â¦BlackBerry OS
Â¦Grid OS
Â¦Linux
Â¦Mer
Â¦S40
Â¦Brew
Â¦SHR
Â¦Symbian
Â¦webOS
Â¦Tizen
*Unicode support included in a future update
1. Re:Introducing the new SlashPhone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:21 · Score: 0
  
  Fully compatible with
  Â¦Symbian
  I think I know what kind of symbian you had in mind, you little dirty boy.
  (as surely you didn't mean the Symbian OS)
2. Re:Introducing the new SlashPhone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:56 · Score: 0
  
  Get hourly updates featuring ...
  -XKCD Reference Linker
  Oh shit; where can you sign me up for one? Can it do that and get a first post? I'm willing to pay up to 10,000 euros for this; do you think you could get me one for under 4000? Actually it seems relatively cheap (ob XKCD)
3. Re:Introducing the new SlashPhone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 11:17 · Score: 0
  
  What other Symbian is there? FWIW I did google it to see if there was some pop culture reference or something I was missing.
4. Re:Introducing the new SlashPhone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 12:41 · Score: 0
  
  www.sybian.com
5. Re:Introducing the new SlashPhone! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 12:46 · Score: 0
  
  Burns: I wonder if this Homer Nixon is any relation.
  Smithers: Unlikely sir, they spell and pronounce their names differently.
Why such low specs by h4rr4r · 2013-11-27 08:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

Why are the specs so low?
This is like a phone from 3 years ago.
1. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously, it sounds like an awesome competitor for BlackBerry.
2. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  How much terhaburz would you like to make a phone call?
3. Re:Why such low specs by CRCulver · 2013-11-27 08:18 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Why are the specs so low? This is like a phone from 3 years ago.
  
  Is that really a problem for a phone that is here announced on a News for Nerds site? It's a phone open to tinkering and running Linux software, which should interest us all. I know that I've breathed new life into my old Nokia N900 by discovering how to work with Emacs on it, which as the old saw goes, is a great operating system. Of course it has always had support for most audio formats (including libre ones), so it continues to satisfying me as a music player. Watching videos, video conferencing, extremely complicated web stuff, well, I can do that on a desktop.
  Sure, one can make the point that the phone does not have features state-of-the-art enough to appeal to a mass demographic that could keep the company afloat, but I'm a bit surprised to see Slashdot denizens complaining that it isn't whizbang enough.
4. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  Probably because some people use phones as phones.
5. Re:Why such low specs by Thomas+Miconi · 2013-11-27 08:19 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  The crazy thing is, even though you are right that these are low specs by modern standards, these are still basically laptop-level specs. Hell, it would beat a 2006 MacBook *Pro*:
  http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook_pro_1.67.html
  The convergence between phones and computers is nigh. The Ubuntu Edge concept was ahead of its time, but soon enough smartphones will have enough computing power to fill 95% of people's needs. When that happens, who would want to buy a huge, noisy desktop box rather than just plug a screen+keyboard into the phone that you carry with you all the time anyway?
  Same thing for laptops. How long will it take before the majority of "laptops" are actually empty shells into which you can just plug your phone?
6. Re:Why such low specs by JackieBrown · 2013-11-27 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  Then why would they need this?
7. Re:Why such low specs by h4rr4r · 2013-11-27 08:29 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It would not come close to a 2006 macbook pro.
  ARM cpus are not that performant. Ghz is not something you can compare that way.
8. Re:Why such low specs by h4rr4r · 2013-11-27 08:30 · Score: 2
  
  My phone is open to tinkering.
  Heck, Ubuntu for it exists.
  I want both. I might be convinced if all the drivers are in mainline, but we both know that is not the case.
9. Re:Why such low specs by CastrTroy · 2013-11-27 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  Personally, I don't really care about the specs of my phone. I think you're much better off getting a cheap phone and then getting a tablet to do all the stuff you'd normally do on your phone. As long as the phone can make calls, send messages, and act as wifi hotspot for my tablet, I'm fine with it. Phones are either too small to do any real tasks, or too large to just be a phone. I'd rather just have a phone that does it's job, and have a tablet to do my actual mobile computing.
  
  Although one thing wrong with this phone is the price. at 400 euros, it's more expensive than the Nexus 5, but with much worse specs. I think it's fine if they want to make a low spec phone, but at least price it accordingly.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
10. Re:Why such low specs by h4rr4r · 2013-11-27 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  I would rather have a slightly larger phone. I am not going to carry a tablet around in public at all times.
  I agree the price is too high for what it is.
11. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:43 · Score: 0
  
  3 years ago the average phones can make calls back then as they do now, right?
  Not every market is targeted towards the bleeding edge nor people change their phones every 3 months to run the latest games like a PC, right?
12. Re:Why such low specs by h4rr4r · 2013-11-27 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  If you are only making calls this is not the device for you.
13. Re:Why such low specs by quitte · 2013-11-27 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  I'm using an ipod touch with a vga adapter modded to accept a usb charger plus an audio cable connected to a monitor to watch itunes-U lectures. As a result I need to be careful to not loose any connections when interacting - such as changing the volume.
  Every cable beyond a thin and light charging cable is a pain. So Apple had the right idea with making the new connector for i-devices. However I doubt it accepts long cable lengths.
  I agree that we are getting close to our handhelds merging with the portables and even the desktops. But there are still a lot of problems to be solved that only present themselves when interacting with the actual implementation.
14. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:09 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The specs are "low" because it's what you can get to manufacture and sell for $400 when your order is not in the millions of units. It's already amazing they managed to sell it at less than a $1000 each for such a small order.
15. Re:Why such low specs by viperidaenz · 2013-11-27 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  It might compete with a 1996 MacBook pro. If they existed?
  A 1.4GHz Netburst core is more powerful than a 1.4GHz ARM core. Don't even think about comparing it to a modern x86. They're more like a factor of 10 better.
16. Re:Why such low specs by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-11-27 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  Then why would they need /.?
  FTFY
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
17. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:17 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The specs are actually quite close to the iPhone 5C (at half the price), and are low only if you compare them to Android phones specs, which are so huge because of two things: 1. Android is a resource hog, 2. due to Google's tight grip over Android, the only way OEMS can differentiate is through specs.
  The Jolla folk are actively trying to fight the second point, and the first point is not applicable to them since they use a "standard" Gnu/Linux stack (Systemd, Wayland, dbus, Qt, zypper).
18. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:36 · Score: 0
  
  Then they should get a non-smart phone for $20.
19. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  That's true, but you're paying for something. If you don't care about bleeding edge and you're happy with 2010 level technology, there are fine phones in the $100-$200 range. What would be the rationalization for paying more - you're a Nokia fanboy?
20. Re:Why such low specs by ifiwereasculptor · 2013-11-27 10:39 · Score: 1
  
  They're about in line with the Moto G, itself a pretty capable phone. Frankly, it's the sweet spot for most people, especially when you factor in non-subsidized prices and power consumption. My Nexus 4 sure is powerful, but the thing can chew through 25% of its battery in less than 10 minutes when doing intense stuff like updating the OS or changing runtime libraries.
21. Re:Why such low specs by tlhIngan · 2013-11-27 11:34 · Score: 2
  
  It would not come close to a 2006 macbook pro.
  ARM cpus are not that performant. Ghz is not something you can compare that way.
  They're not as fast as x86 yet, but they're catching up. Intel's latest Bay Trail Atom CPUs are fast (outclassing the old Atoms, but benchmarks put the Apple A7 at a bit faster.
  Some of it can be explained by CPU speed (the Bay Trail ran at 1.33GHz vs. 1.4 for the A7), but it also means the speed advantage at the low end low cost x86 is being rapidly reached by ARM CPUs.
  In fact, Intel wants to position the Atom (especially Bay Trail) as a very fast embedded SoC for mobiles, but if existing SoCs are starting to catch up to it, there's very little advantage.
  It also means when Android goes fully 64-bit, you can expect some massive performance improvements (most of it comes from the ARMv8 64 bit architecture more so than any specific microarchitecture change).
22. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 11:53 · Score: 0
  
  We can rebuild it, but we do not want to spend too much.
23. Re:Why such low specs by trackedvehicle · 2013-11-27 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  due to Google's tight grip over Android, the only way OEMS can differentiate is through specs.
  Google? You mean the Open Handset Alliance - it's a consortium that has oversight on Android. Oh and that grip is so tight that everyone can do whatever they want with it. Any company or individual can modify and customize Android for their needs and don't have to pay Google or OHA a dime. In fact, companies are going quite wild with Android, which now appears on all sorts of devices and customizations.
24. Re:Why such low specs by queazocotal · 2013-11-27 12:27 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's really not that rosy.
  http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-10/21/googles-iron-grip-on-android for some context.
  'For OEMs, this means they aren't allowed to slowly transition from Google's Android to a fork. The second they ship one device that runs a competing fork, they are given the kiss of death and booted out of the Android family -- it must be a clean break. This, by design, makes switching to forked Android a terrifying prospect to any established Android OEM. You must jump off the Google cliff, and there's no going back.'
  There is _NO_ automated process for getting an android device appoved.
  Do one thing that google does not like, and you cannot legally ship any of the google apps - which as the above article explains - means many, or most apps on the google store break, even if you try to simply copy them over, as the platform services are not open source.
25. Re:Why such low specs by exomondo · 2013-11-27 15:22 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  many, or most apps on the google store break, even if you try to simply copy them over, as the platform services are not open source.
  That's probably the most telling part of the plan, the proprietary Google Play Services gives the opportunity to have 'Google Play Services' applications rather than just 'Android' applications and the more they advance the features of that over the features of Android the more appealing it is to developers and the less appealing non-Google Android devices will be to end users.
26. Re:Why such low specs by jimbo · 2013-11-27 18:09 · Score: 1
  
  Specs are probably fine for any other use case than high end games and very complex Java apps.
  Seriously; they're a tiny new company. Developing your first device takes longer and they don't have access to the same massive bulk order component discounts as behemoth players in the market.
27. Re:Why such low specs by temotodochi · 2013-11-27 19:22 · Score: 1
  
  ARM is definitely not comparable to x86 (CISC) cpus because it's a RISC processor. Performance is heavily dependent on software optimization. RISC processors can mimic or emulate x86 instruction set, but it adds another layer of instruction processing when ARM must break down the complex CISC commands to simpler parts suitable for RISC. wikipedia: "RISC /rsk/, is a CPU design strategy based on the insight that simplified (as opposed to complex) instructions can provide higher performance if this simplicity enables much faster execution of each instruction. A computer based on this strategy is a reduced instruction set computer, also called RISC. The opposing architecture is called complex instruction set computing, i.e. CISC."
28. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 23:58 · Score: 0
  
  ...with Emacs on it, which as the old saw goes, is a great operating system. Of course it has always had support for most audio formats
  I knew emacs was bloated, but audio support?
29. Re:Why such low specs by CastrTroy · 2013-11-28 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  I don't need to carry around a tablet all the time either. A cheap small phone will do in a pinch to check a map, look up the bus times, check email, check social networks. I bring the tablet along if I know I'm going to be waiting around for a while and will have time to actually do something on it. But if I'm going out to dinner or drinks with friends, there's little purpose to having anything more advanced than a basic cell phone on me.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
30. Re: Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  Because it's not going to be running Android.
31. Re:Why such low specs by KozmoStevnNaut · 2013-11-28 09:55 · Score: 2
  
  Fairphone manages to do pretty well on specs for €325 per phone, with an initial production run of 25,000 phones, while using ethically-sourced minerals, recycled plastics, reasonable wages and working conditions and so on:
  http://buy-a-phone-start-a-movement.fairphone.com/en/specs/
  Admittedly there's no 4G, it hasn't actually shipped yet (they should start shipping out in December) and it's running Android, so the software development costs are lower. But building a decent phone at those sorts of prices is definitely possible, even for relatively small production runs. I'm waiting patiently for my Fairphone, but I'll definitely be following Jolla closely. From their press releases and general design ideas, it seems like they've managed to retain some of the brilliance that Nokia used to have.
  
  --
  Eat the rich.
32. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 06:50 · Score: 0
  
  The CPU isn't so bad. It's a dual core Krait, so it'll be competitive with most quad core phones out now. Other than that, I agree. The GPU is an Adreno 305, which is about on par with an Adreno 225 for performance, it only has 1GB RAM and it has a low resolution display. I am also surprised at how bad the battery life is, considering it's got a 2100mAh battery.
33. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 06:52 · Score: 0
  
  Catching up? Are you on crack?
  
  There isn't even a slim chance that ARM will ever catch up to x86-64. You let me know when anyone has an ARM CPU that can match or beat a Haswell i3, i5 or i7.
34. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  In 1996 they were called "PowerBook" and they were absolute rubbish. We had a couple at a company that I worked at back then, but nobody ever wanted to touch them. I ended up just donating them to Goodwill and ordering more PC laptops.
35. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 07:00 · Score: 0
  
  Consumers don't care about the woes of a company that can't offer competitive prices due to an inability to mass produce. If they want to sell their phone, they are going to need to do better than what they are offering.
  
  If you want to enter a market like this, you need any or all of the following:
  
  a) A vastly superior product
  b) A name brand that people are loyal to (think Nike or Apple)
  c) A low price
36. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  In fact, Intel wants to position the Atom (especially Bay Trail) as a very fast embedded SoC for mobiles, but if existing SoCs are starting to catch up to it, there's very little advantage.
  Except for having a huge library of software instantly available for it.
37. Re:Why such low specs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 22:24 · Score: 0
  
  they use a "standard" Gnu/Linux stack (Systemd, Wayland, dbus, Qt, zypper).
  Not zypper but PackageKit+libzypp.
Moto G by Nemyst · 2013-11-27 08:08 · Score: 1

This could've been a nice proposition a few years ago but I think Motorola beat them to the punch with the G. Unless you really, really want MeeGo/Sailfish (or you value a 8mp camera that much), the G is just a better proposition. Better screen (720p), Gorilla Glass 3, quad-core, plus vanilla Android which is pretty great, all for less than half this phone's price. The only unclear thing is whether "4G" means LTE or not, because that's probably one of the biggest things missing in the Moto G.

On the other hand, it means the market for mid-range smartphones is getting more and more interesting!
1. Re:Moto G by Teun · 2013-11-27 08:57 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I see a huge difference between pure Android and a real GNU/Linux flavour like Sailfish, the latter has so much more to offer.
  This sort of development on a respectable OS deserves support.
  
  --
  "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
2. Re:Moto G by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 12:36 · Score: 0
  
  Now, the interesting question: If you drop Android, what actual use do you have for a quad core, other than burning through your battery as quickly as possible? Running Linpack?
3. Re:Moto G by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 21:47 · Score: 0
  
  Fair enough. Now name three things that the average customer cares about that a full GNU/Linux can do better than Android.
The N9 successor by Ecuador · 2013-11-27 08:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

I switched from an N9 to a Galaxy S3 about a year ago (because the N9 lacked some apps I needed - thanks to Nokia abandoning it and alienating developers) and I still think the N9 was a much superior experience to both my Galaxy and my company-issued iPhone.
I' ll keep an eye for this. Hopefully if it catches on it might get a lower price-tag (given that it doesn't use very expensive hardware). The hardware does not seem very high-end, but the native apps are fast (the single-core N9 seemed faster than dual-core Android phones). Plus you get to run Android apps, if they run without problems this should allow people like me who had to switch to Android for the apps to get the phone.
One thing I don't like that much is the IPS screen. I don't mind it has a lower resolution than the current flagship phones, but I would prefer the S-AMOLED that the N9 had (with an always-on clock that did not use almost any battery power!).
Oh, there is also some talk that they will develop replace-able backs, e.g. you will be able to remove the back cover and put in a slide-out qwerty keyboard N900/950 style.
So, keeping an eye out for this, if it is really better than the N9, it could be the phone to have.

--
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
1. Re:The N9 successor by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:13 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, there is also some talk that they will develop replace-able backs, e.g. you will be able to remove the back cover and put in a slide-out qwerty keyboard N900/950 style.
  That would be a serious draw for me, especially if I could re-use that back when they release their next, more powerful handset.
2. Re:The N9 successor by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  I wish people would stop spreading this rumor. The back of the Jolla phone has a camera right in the middle. There is no way for a hardware keyboard "other-half" to fit.
  There was a Kickstarter project a few weeks ago to produce just this, but it is abandoned because it's obvious that Jolla did not intend for the "other half" to be anything more than NFC flash storage for exclusive album releases.
3. Re:The N9 successor by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:25 · Score: 0
  
  OMFG, you mean the camera is actually hidden behind the backcover ?!?! Of course it isn't, there's a hole in the backcover. I see no reason why another backcover/device couldn't have such a hole too. The thickness of the backcover will be important, but I'm quite sure it's doable. Or, you know, if the keyboard is sliding, it could just uncover the camera when it's open. Someone already pointed this out in another comment. Next time, give your imagination a chance ;).
4. Re:The N9 successor by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 11:18 · Score: 0
  
  No reason that camera location has to be a keyboard showstopper if they get creative. It could be a clamshell, or slider/flip design sort of like the Asus Android Eee Pad Slider SL101 design (camera built into the underside of the keyboard for use on back of unit when keyboard closed it seems - http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/asus-eee-pad-slider/4505-3126_7-35020459.html ), or, similarly, more recent Archos, Acer (R7 - really wonky, but...) and Sony models, or the old IBM Thinkpad TransNote - all kind of klugy with their hinges, but it could be done. If any of those recent ones had a trackpoint like the old Thinkpads instead of a space-wasting touch pad (reduces area for keyboard), I would have been all over them - a good way to manage the cursor (including hovering) in a small work area without smearing up the screen, and fat-fingering the wrong parts.
  Another really slick design was the Symbian-driven Psion Revo Plus/Diamond Mako I had which was much more elegant than most of the above (no camera, but one could have been exposed that way). If that PDA/PIM/Pocket (as in small shirt pocket!) computer had more modern display technology with better backlighting (color would be a nice bonus, but not a necessity), expandable storage, softer action keyboard (and camera would help I suppose....), it would be a killer even now.
  For that matter, my old Palm Zire 71 has to slide the front part up out of the back to expose the camera lens, so there are lots of possibilities.
  Oh well, just drop me off in the museum of forgotten technological elegance to roam about, and perchance to dream ...
  ROC
5. Re:The N9 successor by gbjbaanb · 2013-11-28 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  I'd have thought the camera would be part of the back cover.. so you could replace it with better ones, or a keyboard, or... shock, a cover that did not have a camera at all - think how many they could sell to the military or other sensitive agencies for their workers as company phones then!
  This is the 2nd AC post saying the same FUD that Jolla wants the cover to be a marketing revenue earner.
6. Re:The N9 successor by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 03:44 · Score: 0
  
  This is the 2nd AC post saying the same FUD that Jolla wants the cover to be a marketing revenue earner.
  FUD? What exactly do you find so scary about the prospect of the cover being intended as marketable feature? What precludes anybody from investigating whether this is true or not? What reason is given to dismiss anyone who claims otherwise?
  It appears that you have absolutely no idea what the term "FUD" means, and are simply using it to label whatever you wish to dismiss as conjecture.
Will they buy Microsoft? by ebno-10db · 2013-11-27 08:10 · Score: 0

Will they buy Microsoft in the future? That would be sweet. It would have the odd effect though of giving the two most popular OS'es in the world a Finnish tie.
1. Re:Will they buy Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  You do realize that Windows already has a Finnish tie from buying Nokia, right? That's why these folks aren't with Nokia anymore.
2. Re:Will they buy Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  Will they buy Microsoft in the future?
  Yes, but you're jumping ahead. The first step is Embrace...
3. Re:Will they buy Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:48 · Score: 0
  
  a frisk, an embrace, a French-referendum-kiss, cut to the chase,
  at the end of the day, he gets bald and impotent, and she can`t lose the maternity stretchmarks, then (in a very dark and sinister manner),
  magically,
  juST LIKE ZOOKERBOOGERS FB (AKAMAI), T-mob-ELEPHONEY-IN THE ROOM`S AMDOCS, ONAVO (wtf??), AND BENJAMIN NETAN-YAHOO`z ILLEGAL-ISRAELI-EXCSTACY-FUELLED ONE NIGHTER WITH JANET YELLIN!
  a Dove Zakheimer flew over the nest and dropped a good-fuck.... and they all got backdoor-fucked-by-the israelis via the NSA foot-in-the-door.
  And who let the americans bomb the pipelines, AGAIN? time for a carrier-pigeon, if you ask me, but until then, Sailfish sounds sweet!
4. Re:Will they buy Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:57 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, about two or three years after Elop has given his burning platform speech at Microsoft and announced licensing the Sailfish OS.
big repo, man by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:17 · Score: 1

It can run android apps out of the box.
1. Re:big repo, man by kthreadd · 2013-11-27 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  It can but you really want to use native programs. Android compaitibility will get things started, but it's like running Wine on Linux. It works, but it's not what you want to use unless you have to.
2. Re:big repo, man by ChunderDownunder · 2013-11-27 13:03 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Compatibility with Android should be *much* higher than with wine. They have the source code for a start... They both target Linus' kernel. They're both based around OpenGL (ES) for drawing.
The video... by grumpyman · 2013-11-27 08:32 · Score: 1

... watched it and makes me think: is there any reason to build another phone OS? "Yes" probably only applies to the same crowd giving "Yes" to yet another Linux desktop variation.
1. Re:The video... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:37 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  i doubt you'd question this, if you had owned N900 or N9
2. Re:The video... by Microlith · 2013-11-27 09:11 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Yes, because the moment we decide "we don't need any more OSes" is the moment we decide that "innovation" is done and nothing new is to be had unless it comes from Google, Microsoft, or Apple. And that's a bad, bad state to be in.
3. Re:The video... by SpectreBlofeld · 2013-11-27 10:37 · Score: 2
  
  Microsoft makes more money from Android than it does from WindowsPhone due to patent royalties. Perhaps Sailfish will be free of such royalties? If so, I can see hardware manufacturers getting behind it (or Tizen, etc) in a big way, especially considering that Android apps will run on it.
  Maybe HTC, which has been foundering lately, should produce a Sailfish handset. They could set up their own app store and make some cash that way...
4. Re:The video... by Patch86 · 2013-11-27 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  Currently it's a race between two- iOS and Android. I don't think two is enough. There are more than two brands of car, more than two types of beer, more than two mobile phone carriers in every country worth talking about. We could do with more than two.
  And what's your choice for number three? Blackberry? Windows? Personally, being a Slashdot reader, I'm definitely more in favour of GNU/Linux taking the next slot. Whether that be Jolla, Ubuntu, Tizen, or something else- all fine options. Android could use some Linuxy company up there in the spotlight.
5. Re:The video... by Richard_at_work · 2013-11-28 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  I owned the N900. Thought it was shit, went back to my old phone after 6 months. So glad the world moved on.
Damn, no hardware keyboard! by EzInKy · 2013-11-27 08:33 · Score: 1, Insightful

Guess that means I'll just have to keep limping along with my N900 until a decent replacent comes along.

--
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
1. Re:Damn, no hardware keyboard! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 08:51 · Score: 0
  
  That the point with jollas "second half" some 3rd party could just start making foldable or sliding keyboards for it and connect it to the second half of a Jolla phone.
2. Re:Damn, no hardware keyboard! by EzInKy · 2013-11-27 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough then. I'll still be holding off buying one though until this unnamed mysterious third party shows up with actual hardware in hand.
  
  --
  Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
3. Re:Damn, no hardware keyboard! by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2013-11-29 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  The problem being that a keyboard would block the camera...
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Android compatibility by Narishma · 2013-11-27 08:51 · Score: 1

I don't know if supporting Android apps is a good idea. Won't that kill any chance of having native apps?

--
Mada mada dane.
1. Re:Android compatibility by Teun · 2013-11-27 09:00 · Score: 1
  
  When the native apps are better or just simply faster?
  
  --
  "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
2. Re:Android compatibility by foobar+bazbot · 2013-11-27 09:29 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I don't know if supporting Android apps is a good idea. Won't that kill any chance of having native apps?
  Not necessarily. That issue's widely credited with the failure of OS/2, but that was a time when you drove to a store and bought a boxed application off the shelf, or mail-ordered it. Either way, you wound up with some removable media and installed the software -- there was no other way in practice. (Yes, I know modems did exist.) That means there's no incentive for someone with a Windows app to make an OS/2 port, because it's equal trouble for the consumer to acquire and use my Windows app or my competitor's OS/2 port -- I don't suffer lost sales for my lack of a port, so I I'd be a fool to dedicate the resources to one.
  With smartphones, though, the normal method is to go to some app-store and download the app you want -- and this permits differentiation. If the Jolla app-store only carries Jolla-native apps, so that using an Android app requires downloading the .apk with a web browser, then my competitor with a Jolla-native port will get more market share than I do with my Android app, because there's less effort for users to install his app -- I'll have to do my own Jolla port to get in the Jolla app store and compete on an equal footing.
  (I'm not sure that's exactly how the Jolla app-store situation will be -- maybe you can just install e.g. the Amazon app store APK, and have two app stores, one for android and one for jolla -- but you can see how that sort of thing lets you have the benefit of using existing Android apps while still giving developers a reason to bother with Jolla-native apps.)
3. Re:Android compatibility by exomondo · 2013-11-27 16:09 · Score: 1
  
  When the native apps are better or just simply faster?
  It's unlikely they would perform any different than they do an Android device, sure a native app is likely to be faster still but if you can get the same experience on Sailfish as you can on Android by targeting just Android then why explicitly target Sailfish? Better to spend that effort on more established platforms to get a larger audience.
4. Re:Android compatibility by walter_f · 2013-11-27 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  When the native apps are better or just simply faster?
  Hopefully, this might be a crucial point.
  Still, the sheer number of android apps could turn out to be overwhelming in the eyes of some aspiring developers of native ones.
  (And yes, I'm massively biased in favour of the Jolla/SailfishOS. Bon voyage, brave little Jolla dinghy!)
5. Re:Android compatibility by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2013-11-29 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  That's what Blackberry said...
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Let the lawsuits begin by ISoldat53 · 2013-11-27 08:51 · Score: 1

Ex-employees? Any bets on how long it'll take for the first suit to be pressed?
1. Re:Let the lawsuits begin by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:08 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Na ga happen. Nokia actually funded this company with contributions towards a federal goodwill program that provides funds for nationalistic (Finnish) startups. Jolla has access to Nokia's full patent portfolio under this program, as well as Nokia HERE maps.
  The Jolla spinoff was a way for Nokia to continue development of Meego without Microsoft oversight. After the Microsoft acquisition is completed, Nokia cannot make phones until January 2016, after which, a merger between Nokia and Jolla is possible. Nokia has retained its brand, image, and importantly, the "Nokia ringtone" sound. It may be able to get by for a few years on patent royalties. Microsoft only gets the Lumia and Asha lines, and production centers, which were outsourced to Asia anyway.
2. Re:Let the lawsuits begin by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 11:05 · Score: 0
  
  Wow - I didn't see that coming. I don't know if Nokia will survive until then (although they have been around for well over a century already) or if Jolla will want to merge, but this does give them a way to potentially rise form the ashes quite spectacularly.
3. Re:Let the lawsuits begin by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 01:12 · Score: 0
  
  Na ga happen. Nokia actually funded this company with contributions towards a federal goodwill program that provides funds for nationalistic (Finnish) startups. Jolla has access to Nokia's full patent portfolio under this program, as well as Nokia HERE maps.
  The Jolla spinoff was a way for Nokia to continue development of Meego without Microsoft oversight. After the Microsoft acquisition is completed, Nokia cannot make phones until January 2016, after which, a merger between Nokia and Jolla is possible. Nokia has retained its brand, image, and importantly, the "Nokia ringtone" sound. It may be able to get by for a few years on patent royalties. Microsoft only gets the Lumia and Asha lines, and production centers, which were outsourced to Asia anyway.
  Have you actually taken a look what nokia sold and what it didn't sell? There is no need to "get by a for a few years on patent royalties" there are still several other business areas for nokia. The networks side is making profit, don't know about HERE. The costs and personel associated with the phone business will move to microsoft some next year. And nokia phones are selling better all the time. (The new lumias are actually damn great, I'd trade my android for one anyday). Why on earth would Jolla want to merge with the remaining parts of Nokia? IT's much more likely they will hire the talent that doesn't want to stay with microsoft.
4. Re:Let the lawsuits begin by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 02:29 · Score: 0
  
  As I have commented before. A Jolla corresponds to the British "Jolly Boat", a small boat usually on a larger ship that is used as a kind of tender or lifeboat. Many in Nokia felt that Elop was a disaster as soon as he arrived but as he had institutional money behind him, they could not do anything against him. So perhaps this is the "Finnish" lifeboat for some core components of Nokia technology.
5. Re:Let the lawsuits begin by Iskender · 2013-11-28 02:50 · Score: 0
  
  Nokia actually funded this company with contributions towards a federal goodwill program that provides funds for nationalistic (Finnish) startups.
  That should be *national* program. Finland is not a federation.
6. Re:Let the lawsuits begin by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 22:20 · Score: 0
  
  "Na ga happen. Nokia actually funded this company with contributions towards a federal goodwill program that provides funds for nationalistic (Finnish) startups. Jolla has access to Nokia's full patent portfolio under this program, as well as Nokia HERE maps."
  Jolla has denied that it has access to Nokia's full patent portfolio under the Nokia Bridge program (money for fired nokians to establish startups). Also according Jolla they have licensed Nokia's HERE maps as any other third party does.
  "The Jolla spinoff was a way for Nokia to continue development of Meego without Microsoft oversight"
  Nope, Jolla was established by ex nokia people, not by Nokia.
xterm? root? by Kludge · 2013-11-27 09:36 · Score: 1

When I saw that my N900 had an xterm installed by default, I knew I was in love.
How open is this Jolla phone? Do I have to jump through hoops to get root? Does it use a standard packaging system with repositories?
Pronounciation by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:39 · Score: 0

Is Jolla pronounced hoi-ya, like La Jolla, CA?
1. Re:Pronounciation by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 09:49 · Score: 0
  
  No
2. Re:Pronounciation by Rob+the+Bold · 2013-11-27 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  No
  So no frickin' sharks, then?
  
  --
  I am not a crackpot.
3. Re:Pronounciation by Luckyo · 2013-11-27 10:38 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Yo-lla. Finnish for "dinghy". The joke being about getting away from Elop's "burning platform".
4. Re:Pronounciation by Stormwatch · 2013-11-27 10:53 · Score: 1
  
  Like this... io-lah.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
5. Re:Pronounciation by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 20:43 · Score: 0
  
  Jolla will sell Jolla well in Korea. Because, Jolla, Ssibal!
Re:xterm? root? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:15 · Score: 3, Informative

As far as I can tell it's more open than Nokia N9 (Meego), and on my N9 I just had to enable developer mode from the options to get a terminal and root access. Now, N9 came with a security system called Aegis which partially crippled the root account, but Jolla will not come which such 'features'.
Egocentric world by StripedCow · 2013-11-27 10:18 · Score: 3, Funny

After *I*-OS, you can now buy a phone running "Selfish-OS".
The question is: who needs a phone in a self-centered world?

--
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
1. Re:Egocentric world by Luckyo · 2013-11-27 10:38 · Score: 2
  
  A fisherman. They're known to be a solitary crowd!
2. Re:Egocentric world by burnzee · 2013-11-27 14:46 · Score: 1
  
  After *I*-OS, you can now buy a phone running "Selfish-OS". The question is: who needs a phone in a self-centered world?
  so funny guy, i agree with u
  
  --
  I love Hiphop
But what's its name?? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 10:36 · Score: 0

So the company is called Jolla, which isn't Nokia, and the OS is called Sailfish, which is kind of Mer, but isn't Meego, and there's linux and Qt and buzzwords and acronyms... BUT WHAT'S THE PHONE CALLED?
Re:xterm? root? by KiloByte · 2013-11-27 10:49 · Score: 2

Sadly, this Jolla thing has no keyboard and thus is a non-starter for me.
But add one and I promise to be the first in line to buy it. My N900 is starting to fall apart...

--
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
I think they just like making new project names by tokiko · 2013-11-27 10:58 · Score: 4, Informative

Maemo / Moblin -> MeeGo -> Harmattan -> Mer -> Tizen | Smeegol | Sailfish
Or, in other words, lets rename and start a new project every other week!
I got my N900 because it was based on the same GTK and Debian that I was familiar with on my desktop. But I never touched app development on it because of the promise of the "new" project completely obsoleting anything that I would create on the old. Why bother creating a GTK interface when the new UI gets rewritten in QT next month? Why bother creating Debian packages when the new system uses RPM? Meanwhile, the Osborne effect ensures that no mainstream apps get written for the current code base.
1. Re:I think they just like making new project names by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 18:30 · Score: 0
  
  >I got my N900 because it was based on the same GTK
  You've got a big screen on that thing, eh?
2. Re:I think they just like making new project names by Flavianoep · 2013-11-28 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  Haven't you read the Wikipedia articles you mentioned? Sailfish is not a new name for Mer. It needs Mer to work.
  
  --
  Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
3. Re:I think they just like making new project names by serviscope_minor · 2013-11-28 21:25 · Score: 1
  
  Why bother creating a GTK interface when the new UI gets rewritten in QT next month?
  Why not? It's a GNU/Linux system. Those are perfectly capable of running GTK and QT programs side by side. Hell if you're sufficiently perverse I'm sure you could link both into the same program.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
4. Re:I think they just like making new project names by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 17:04 · Score: 0
  
  Maemo was of course completely unrelated until Nokia signed on, and the Moblin alpha was rpm-based. You could have used a deb-based version of it, but I doubt it. It's really not that big of a deal; package formats are not complicated and can be automatically converted if you feel like it. Harmattan again was a Nokia project, and again was killed in infancy. Smeegol may as well not be on that list, and that leaves Tizen and Sailfish as the surviving downstream projects.
  I realize that you have a dumb perspective because you got a N900 just before Nokia imploded. Nokia was doomed anyway, and Meego/Moblin would have done better to avoid them entirely. The point of Meego was not to supply a new OS for your stupid N900, and the world at large continues not to care about what OS you're using on it. Expect the rest of the world to also not care about some Finns who are creating the "N900-as-it-should-have-been": being able to use linux packages on your phone is not actually something that most people can be convinced to care about.
  Moblin -> MeeGo -> Tizen
  Maemo -> Harmattan/Meego -> things that only concern N900 users
  I've been following Moblin since before the first alpha, after the article about (Intel engineer) Arjan van der Ven making a crappy netbook boot in 5 seconds. Clearly they had something they didn't know what to do with, but let's not look at two projects which briefly shared the same repository as having anything similar in terms of the history before or after that point.
+100,000 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-27 14:00 · Score: 1

and this is how you know their victory isn't absolute. People like you still know the value of freedom.
There is still a niche for people with standards and always will be imo.
1. Re:+100,000 by CauseBy · 2013-11-27 16:34 · Score: 1
  
  If there is hope, it lies in the proles.
2. Re:+100,000 by Iskender · 2013-11-28 02:33 · Score: 1
  
  There is still a niche for people with standards and always will be imo.
  "Not the horrible, shitty, anti-trust-deserving US cell phone market" is a niche now? I thought it was most of the world...
Re:xterm? root? by dbIII · 2013-11-27 15:11 · Score: 1

But add one and I promise to be the first in line to buy it. My N900 is starting to fall apart...
There's still new ones at places that do repairs. I got one a replacement one for a friend about six months ago when repair was considered to be too difficult.
Re:xterm? root? by c.r.o.c.o · 2013-11-27 16:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sadly, this Jolla thing has no keyboard and thus is a non-starter for me.
But add one and I promise to be the first in line to buy it. My N900 is starting to fall apart...
As the owner of two Nokia N900s, HTC Desire (Nexus One), HTC Sensation, and LG Nexus 4, as well as a former owner of a Nokia N9, I can say the hardware keyboard on the N900 is highly overrated. Yes, when the N900 came out touchscreen keyboards were garbage, and the small screen and low resolution of the HTC Desire made typing on it an adventure. Same went for the Nokia N9 by the way, I loved the swype interface, hated the lack of keyboard. Fast forward to the HTC Sensation and LG Nexus 4, and I can type MUCH faster than I ever could on the N900.
I can think of a couple of reasons a hardware keyboard may be useful, such as typing in a terminal where sharing half the screen between the keyboard and the command line output IS a pain. And also using the phone in cold weather with gloves is much easier with a hardware keyboard.
But writing off the ONLY new phone running a real Linux distribution, with real native apps, open ecosystem from a company that is not interested in stealing your private data just because it lacks a keyboard just seems like trolling to me.
I personally will buy one as soon as it becomes available in Canada without being on pre-order.
Re:xterm? root? by temotodochi · 2013-11-27 19:08 · Score: 4, Informative

Jollas concept about "the other half" actually includes plans for keyboard add-on. At first the other halfs (back covers if you like) just change the look, feel and settings of the OS for example red cover for work and blue for home. I haven't tested the phone myself, but this concept sounds cool. Later on Jolla is adding more physical gimmicks to those covers, hardware upgrades, keyboards, etc.
Re:xterm? root? by KiloByte · 2013-11-28 02:24 · Score: 1

If all you type is a SMS here and there, a touchscreen keyboard might be adequate and the device ends up lighter. But for any semi-serious use... forget it.
N900 suffers from Nokia's brain-dead default layout that requires using a pull-up on screen keyboard for anything but basic letters and digits, but fixing that is trivial (here's my version that uses Shift and Fn).

--
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Citation Needed by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-28 11:54 · Score: 1

No. There will be no hardware keyboard "other half." The back of the phone has a camera right in the fucking middle of it. There's no way for a hardware keyboard to fit without doing some shitty folding-butterfly effect to go around the camera.
The keyboard could slide out to reveal the camera, as the sibling post suggested.

Jolla intended for this phone to not have hardware keyboards. They want it to be a proprietary, NFC-enabled "flash drive" that they can patent and team up with artists for exclusive albums and movies. It is only intended to be a new type of media storage, but slow because it uses NFC. There *may* be an FM-transmitter "other half" down the line as well as one with a kickstand. Congratulations, it's a phone cover that changes the theme's colors to match.
The connections provided are power and I2C. NFC is suggested for slow data transfer, and Wifi Direct for more demanding ones.

There was a Kickstarter campaign a few weeks ago to build a hardware keyboard for the other half, and it was abandoned because of the camera.
Could you provide a link? I wasn't able to find any evidence of this.
(Posting AC as I have already moderated in this thread.)
More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 00:20 · Score: 1

I purchased a Samsung phone that was locked down tight earlier this year to test some android GPS software against something I was using so it is most definitely present tense. Also I very much doubt that more phones are unlocked than locked - please provide something to back up such a claim if you are going to attack me on such grounds instead of a silly attempt at bullying and crap about how you win the spelling bee.
1. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by bingoUV · 2013-11-29 00:48 · Score: 1
  
  I already provided the information that is relevant - it involved Samsung, HTC and Sony. You would have remembered if you read it or understood.
  You could have named the Samsung device if you had a point. But I guess you refrain from doing that because it was locked by the carrier so is completely irrelevant in a comparison with Jolla with is not a carrier (yet) but a manufacturer. Just like Samsung and HTC - which haven't released a bootloader locked phone for more than 2 years (possibly slightly less for HTC).
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
2. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  I already provided the information that is relevant
  I do not consider you a trustworthy source due to your childish and petty bullying insults where you appear to just expect people to cave in and take you at your word. Reality disagreed with you in the form of the Samsung phone I picked up in August so your word is worthless. Please provide a link to the word of someone who can be trusted.
3. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by bingoUV · 2013-11-29 02:28 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, so my suspicions proved correct. You do not have a "locked" Samsung phone model to refer to.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
4. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 06:36 · Score: 0
  
  Which model Samsung phone was it?
5. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by Black+LED · 2013-11-29 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  You are the only one being childish here. Nobody insulted you, they asked questions which you conveniently skirt around by calling them childish.
6. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 16:03 · Score: 1
  
  I no longer have it since it was for a short term project (and it was a piece of crap), but it had "pocket" in the name.
7. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 16:09 · Score: 1
  
  So "In that case, have you considered using English to express your opinion" is not an insult?
  This is a pointless argument where a guy that is refusing to link to a reliable source for his extraordinary claim is trying to make me look like a liar just because I can't remember the model number of a crappy samsung pocket phone I used sparingly for less than a week a few months ago.
8. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by Black+LED · 2013-11-29 18:00 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, well the only Samsung phone I can find that has pocket in the name and was released this year is the Samsung Galaxy Pocket Neo S5310. It looks like it is supported by Odin, a firmware flasher made by Samsung which can be used to install both official and third party ROMs, bootloaders and kernels.
9. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 18:50 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps it was an older model that was still on sale, as I said I do not know the model number. Either way it existed despite the earlier poster calling me a liar. Believe me or not, but just don't try to convince me (like the earlier poster) that something observed was other than it was.
10. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by bingoUV · 2013-11-29 19:32 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, so you used a phone you don't remember the name of. How does that make an "average" Android phone locked?
  If you cannot find the name of a "locked" Samsung Android phone in spite of me "insulting" you so much, and you reacting so much to it, that does more to "prove" the lack of a "locked" recent Samsung Android phone than any link I can possibly post. Let alone an "average" Android phone.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
11. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 20:52 · Score: 1
  
  Go bully somebody else little boy.
12. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-29 20:54 · Score: 1
  
  You said all Samsung and I was aware that is not true. Since you've were not telling the truth there I asked for a link to a source that is more reliable. You have not been able to supply it.
13. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by bingoUV · 2013-11-30 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  What link? For example?
  If you are thinking a link from samsung.com will prove it - you are sadly mistaken.
  One name of the Samsung Android phone from last 2 years, and my entire theory would be shattered to itty bitty pieces. But 100 links for simple alternate ROM boot procedure of 100 different Samsung Android phones would not prove it. For that you can easily browse XDA forums' sections for Samsung devices, anyway.
  So I think lack of device name from you is more convincing as a "proof" of this negative. Plus the fact that you called an "average" Android device "locked", so burden of proof lies on your shoulders anyway, just because you said something.
  But I got your style of posting - jump on a bandwagon and cry "bully!!!" when someone asks for any justification.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
14. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by dbIII · 2013-11-30 16:43 · Score: 1
  
  You are the one putting up the "every phone in two years thing" so I'm asking you to prove it.
  Why is it that you have not been able to? Is your statement correct or did you make it up.
15. Re:More than 50% of the market unlocked? No by bingoUV · 2013-11-30 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  Uh? Are you playing "give question for this answer" game?
  "One name of the Samsung Android phone from last 2 years, and my entire theory would be shattered to itty bitty pieces. But 100 links for simple alternate ROM boot procedure of 100 different Samsung Android phones would not prove it. For that you can easily browse XDA forums' sections for Samsung devices, anyway."
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Re:IPS panel is not resistive touch tech by fonske · 2013-11-29 01:39 · Score: 1

otherwise stick to adjectives "feely" , "touchy" and indeed "shitty" for the tech you were referring to.
Re:IPS panel is not resistive touch tech by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 06:39 · Score: 0

The Nokia N900 has a resistive screen, AKA, worthless shit.
Re:xterm? root? by tenchikaibyaku · 2013-11-29 07:19 · Score: 1

What exactly are you typing? I used my N900 to irc on regularly (like, always) and I cannot imagine being able to do it anywhere near as properly without a keyboard. I got myself a stratosphere ii now because of the keyboard, and while it's better than no keyboard I sadly can't type as fast (or accurate) on it as I could on the N900.
Re:IPS panel is not resistive touch tech by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 08:02 · Score: 0

Still better than capacitive screens, AKA, unusable pieces of crap.
Re:IPS panel is not resistive touch tech by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-29 08:59 · Score: 0

Yes, I really hate how capacitive screens are much more responsive, are much clearer, support ten finger multi-touch and aren't made of plastic.
Reality disagrees with you yet again by dbIII · 2013-11-30 17:43 · Score: 1

What is your response to this then on the subject of open bootloaders that you are pretending are on most android phones?:
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4504789&cid=45563575
1. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by bingoUV · 2013-11-30 18:36 · Score: 1
  
  What do you expect my response to be? That when I am replying to you my stance would be different from that when you quote me elsewhere? I cannot comprehend the enormity of confusion of ideas that would lead you to such a question.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
2. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by dbIII · 2013-11-30 20:00 · Score: 0
  
  The other poster appears to disagee with your assertion of open bootloaders being ubiquitous and mentions having to crack into the phones. Are you going to call him a liar as well? Don't be shy, you've asserted you are not a bully so obviously you don't have to just target people that show some sort of uncertainty.
  Go on - jump into that thread, express your own opinion and not just my interpretation of it and show that you are not just doing this to pick on somebody.
3. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by bingoUV · 2013-11-30 20:37 · Score: 1
  
  I can decide for myself which thread to jump into , thank you very much.
  From your interpretation, which i don't trust much, he does appear to be a liar.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
4. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by dbIII · 2013-11-30 21:20 · Score: 0
  
  That does appear to confirm that you are a gutless piece of shit of a bully that was making things up for fun instead of taking part in a serious discussion.
5. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by bingoUV · 2013-11-30 21:56 · Score: 1
  
  No, it confirms I don't jump into threads without going through them, and right now I don't have time for that. I also assert that which threads I jump into is none of your business. If you have an argument, make it, or STFU.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
6. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by dbIII · 2013-12-01 01:48 · Score: 0
  
  and right now I don't have time for that
  Yet plenty of time for how many contentless posts now without a single link to a source?
7. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by bingoUV · 2013-12-01 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  "that". Means going through a thread. Much different from replying to your zero content rubbish. I already notice that his point is somewhat different from yours, need to read more of the thread context, though. You're too thick to get that, of course.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
8. Re:Reality disagrees with you yet again by bingoUV · 2013-12-02 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4504789&cid=45573391
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Swift U turn by dbIII · 2013-12-03 00:46 · Score: 1

So are you going to take back your lie about "open" now that you've made my point for me?
How about an apology or are you not man enough to do so?
1. Re:Swift U turn by bingoUV · 2013-12-03 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  Bootloaders are open, but flashing results in loss of warranty. If you are too thick to get the difference, too bad.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
2. Re:Swift U turn by dbIII · 2013-12-04 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  Since my entire point was "open" who is looking thick now? Apology please.
3. Re:Swift U turn by bingoUV · 2013-12-04 02:15 · Score: 1
  
  It is open. You also said it's "locked". It is not locked.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
4. Re:Swift U turn by dbIII · 2013-12-04 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  Just admit that you hate such open technology instead of hunting for straws to toss at it. These people made an effort to bring a product to market and you've got nothing but weasel mass debate tricks that you are attempting to damn them with.
5. Re:Swift U turn by bingoUV · 2013-12-04 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  No, I don't hate it. It is also irrelevant whether I hate it or not.
  Please apologize for calling the open phones non-open, and calling the unlocked phones locked.
  thanks
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
6. Re:Swift U turn by dbIII · 2013-12-04 16:26 · Score: 1
  
  It's highly relevant because it appears to be a motivation for such a long and tedious anti-Jolla thread. What exactly is your motivation for attacking a company that provides fully open phones? Do you have a financial stake in a competitor selling closed phones or are you just an unpaid fanboy?
7. Re:Swift U turn by bingoUV · 2013-12-04 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  Ohh, I must have a "motivation". Never mind that I have been correct about open and unlocked bootloaders all along, and you have been wrong about it without any evidence except one phone that you forgot the name of and it has vanished from the internet since then. Very plausible.
  And I have not attacked Jolla at all, I have just called you out on your lie about "average" Android phones having locked bootloaders. I cannot attack OR praise Jolla yet, because, you know, it is not that widely available yet. I am not like you who attacks something with one forgotten piece of evidence that cannot be found again however much someone "insults" you because of it. Unlike you, I also don't have to hide behind other people to make my argument for me. Whatever the truth, I confronted your "shield" people too with that. Just that they were much less wrong than you are.
  On the other hand, YOU did attack Android phones by saying "average" of them are locked , which is blatantly false.
  So now, tell me, why YOU hate Android so, in spite of much more phones being open than Jolla's , which doesn't have many phones in the market yet. It is not confirmed whether they will honour warranty after alternate ROMs have been flashed, as that could be highly suicidal for Jolla too.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-04 20:09 · Score: 1

I know you for what you are and nobody else is reading. I've just strung this out so that I can link this thread of some many content free links from yourself after I asked for a link to show how untrustworthy and pathetic you are the next time you try to pull this bullshit.
1. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-04 20:28 · Score: 1
  
  Irrelevant.
  If I must have a motivation for saying TRUE things about most Android phones, you must have an extremely sinister motivation for saying FALSE things about them. Come on, what is it?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
2. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-04 20:46 · Score: 1
  
  Your strawman appears to have a very different opinion to my post above. Go argue with it little troll since I seem to be irrelevant to your discussion.
3. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-04 21:21 · Score: 1
  
  So finally you accept you were wrong all along about "average" Android phones having locked bootloaders.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
4. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-05 00:54 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not really interested in what your strawman thinks.
5. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-05 01:06 · Score: 1
  
  I am not surprised. Defeat frequently produces disinterest.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
6. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-05 15:59 · Score: 1
  
  Defeat? This is supposed to be a discussion not some sort of mass debate game.
  The subject matter never actually mattered did it? You just wanted to wank to the reaction of somebody that had a strong opinion on something didn't you?
7. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-05 16:11 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I do like to prove wrong the opinionated fools with wrong and baseless opinions, yes.
  The more unfair tactics they use, the better. You tried changing the subject, hiding behind other people, and lengthening the argument needlessly. So yes, it is fairly satisfactory for me, thanks.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
8. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-05 17:37 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks. I'll link your post above the next time I see you decide to have fun by picking on somebody and try to justify it after the fact by calling them an "opinionated fool" for not immediately caving in to your bullying.
9. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-05 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, yes, I forgot the other unfair tactics you used - cry "bully!!!" and question motivation but not reply to the same question yourself.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
10. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-05 21:06 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously I answered the motivation question in my initial post. It appears you do not wish to communicate with anybody with any sort of self esteem you pathetic little bully. You certainly are a poster boy for that title which is why you have attracted such a label. I'm not going to be driven from this site just because you like to wank yourself to angry responses.
11. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-05 21:13 · Score: 1
  
  In your "initial post", I hadn't even asked this question.
  Not sure what title and what label you are talking about. It appears that you are incapable of communicating with anybody properly.
  Great, I get one more opinionated idiot to prove wrong whenever I fancy.
  BTW how is the search for "locked" recent Samsung or HTC Android phone going ?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
12. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-05 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you for confirming that the subject matter is irrelevant and you are just here to provoke a reaction from others.
13. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-05 22:53 · Score: 1
  
  I did ask
  
  BTW how is the search for "locked" recent Samsung or HTC Android phone going ?
  which is the real subject matter, which you have been avoiding for a while now.
  Come on, if an "average" Android phone is "locked", it shouldn't be difficult to find a "locked" phone from such dominant companies, should it?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
14. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-06 15:47 · Score: 1
  
  You lost the benefit of the doubt long ago. If you actually took the subject seriously you would have had the courage to put it before others back when I asked. You are obviously not interested enough to do so and just want to play your petty little game.
15. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-06 17:30 · Score: 1
  
  I did put it when I got time. You linked me somewhere else too. They just weren't as wrong as you are. Just accept it - I am right and you are wrong. It is really as simple as that.
  BTW, why do you have to hide behind "others" ?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
16. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-06 20:12 · Score: 1
  
  BTW, why do you have to hide behind "others"
  
  Please explain what you mean by that Mr Coward who didn't dare to attack the others like you attacked me. Who are those others?
  
  I'm very well aware you are just baiting me and the subject is not of interest to you - but I can't help but reply since you are a master at baiting. In case you are a bit thick that's a joke about you being a complete wanker and an utter waste of time. I'm filling in time while waiting for various network tasks to complete - what's your excuse?
17. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-06 20:34 · Score: 1
  
  Please explain what you mean by that Mr Coward who didn't dare to attack the others like you attacked me. Who are those others?
  Same "others" as in your own this very post.
  
  you are a master at baiting
  Thanks.
  
  utter waste of time.
  Learn to take responsibility for your own actions.
  
  what's your excuse?
  Like I said earlier, I love proving wrong the opinionated fools with wrong and baseless opinions.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
18. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-07 15:20 · Score: 1
  
  Learn to take responsibility for your own actions.
  Now you are reaching for slogans you pathetic little wanker.
19. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-07 17:13 · Score: 1
  
  So? Now I've told you who the "others" are. None of them came to your rescue. Now tell me, why are you such a pussy that you have to involve "others" in a simple discussion about your own "opinion " that the "average " android phone is "locked"?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
20. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-07 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  Bait. Bait. Bait. What a bit of shit you are.
21. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-07 18:06 · Score: 1
  
  Weak, weak, weak. What a pussy you are. How about some self-control? You've conclusively lost the argument got it?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
22. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-08 13:04 · Score: 1
  
  There is no "argument", only empty bait from an idiot attacking an opinion and too much of a coward to attack others that share it.
23. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-08 16:02 · Score: 1
  
  Opinion yes, but completely baseless and incorrect. I've pointed you to XDA where you can see at least 50 open bootloader phones, but you've been unable to name a single recent HTC or Samsung android phone.
  No one else shares the "opinion" - if you notice, no one came to your rescue. Depending on definition of certain words, I even agree with those "others", but you are just wrong.
  So, found any "locked" recent Samsung android phone?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
24. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-08 21:10 · Score: 1
  
  However it did not seem to be real since you have provided no link and are too cowardly to repeat it to others.
  Oh no! I took the bait from the master! He gets to wank again!
25. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-09 01:04 · Score: 1
  
  What didn't seem real? Why? What link do you need to visit XDA ?
  "Others" didn't ask for any "link". There weren't even really wrong, so why would I respond to them the same way as I respond to you who are clearly wrong?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
26. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-09 01:48 · Score: 1
  
  Some crack site means fuckall about open phones. It's like pointing to pirate bay and saying nobody pays to see movies.
27. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-09 02:05 · Score: 1
  
  Pointing to pirate bay and finding a movie proves that the movie is not "unpiratable". Pointing to a movie piracy instructions website (which is XDA is more akin to, except the illegality) and seeing that working instructions don't involve voodoo proves that movie was not "voodoo-locked" against piracy.
  Pointing to XDA, where procedure for flashing alternate ROM doesn't involve exploiting vulnerability of the device / OS proves that the bootloader was not locked.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
28. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-09 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  Your bait is ridiculous and you are full of shit. You never had anything worth saying and never put up a single link to support your lies.
29. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-09 14:06 · Score: 1
  
  Why are you taking the bait?
  I have pointed to lots of unlocked phones via XDA, where is your single locked recent Android Samsung phone?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
30. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-09 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  I gave it away because it was crap in comparison to the open phone I had used for a few years. I could have voided the warranty and rooted it I suppose but that would have been unfair to the person who is using it now.
31. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-09 22:30 · Score: 1
  
  Great. How about finding the name of a single locked HTC or Samsung Android phone released in last 2 years as an answer to my 50+ phones cited via XDA ?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
32. Re:Give it up little troll by dbIII · 2013-12-10 15:19 · Score: 1
  
  Fuck off with your personal definition where complex rooting and voiding the warranty is an "open phone" unless you have the courage to present that personal definition to others. It doesn't matter what model of Samsung pocket galaxy it was - what does matter is it is a real phone and you keep calling me a lair about it without any contrary evidence of your own. Put up or shut up bait boy.
33. Re:Give it up little troll by bingoUV · 2013-12-10 16:44 · Score: 1
  
  1. I have presented the evidence (XDA). You haven't, because you can't. Though your evidence (if it existed) would be much simpler - name of a single phone).
  2. Why do you have to hide behind "others" ?
  3. Put up, or shut up, weak pussy.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Stop pretending by dbIII · 2013-12-10 18:34 · Score: 1

Evidence? A three letter abbreviation for something somewhere on the net? WTF is XDA? Is it a crack site?
Also I named that phone - once waaaay above in a post you did not bother reply to and now directly above.
3 is exactly what I asked YOU for.
2 - who are those others? Am I part of some tinfoil conspiracy? WTF is the point of you sudggesting such when nobody else is reading and we both know you are a liar just looking for attention.
1. Re:Stop pretending by bingoUV · 2013-12-10 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  Evidence? A three letter abbreviation for something somewhere on the net? WTF is XDA? Is it a crack site?
  See for yourself. I can at least tell you, most content is largely legal as per laws of most countries.
  
  Also I named that phone - once waaaay above in a post you did not bother reply to and now directly above
  No, if this is what you call naming, it is wrong. Name the exact model. Somebody else replied with a simple way to flash the only phone matching *pocket* to your comment, I didn't want to embarrass you further.
  
  3 is exactly what I asked YOU for.
  You asked me for 3? You have been corrected way more than thrice by me already. Not sure 3 of what more you want from me.
  
  2 - who are those others?
  Same "others" as you keep invoking. E.g. here :
  
  definition to others. It doesn't
  
  Am I part of some tinfoil conspiracy?
  No, just an opnionated fool with wrong and baseless opinions.
  
  WTF is the point of you sudggesting such when nobody else is reading and we both know you are a liar just looking for attention
  I don't believe any such thing. If you think so, why are you giving the "attention" to me? And why do you have to start the abuse as soon as you lose an argument all over again ?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
2. Re:Stop pretending by dbIII · 2013-12-10 21:06 · Score: 1
  
  why are you giving the "attention" to me
  Because I do not want you to get the last word and have the illusion of "winning" your senseless mastrabation game of attacking people you see as weak.
  A direct question about your source and still no link. What a loser. Obviously making it up.
3. Re:Stop pretending by bingoUV · 2013-12-10 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  Asking again - what link do you need to visit XDA ?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
4. Re:Stop pretending by dbIII · 2013-12-10 21:21 · Score: 1
  
  I say again - WTF is XDA?
  Why pretend to be so stupid? Do I have to dumb the question down even more? Draw in crayon?
  
  I'm going to regurgitate this content free thread the next time I catch you picking on somebody for fun. Acting dumb isn't so fun now is it?
5. Re:Stop pretending by bingoUV · 2013-12-10 22:31 · Score: 1
  
  I say again - WTF is XDA?
  It is what this comment of your own was addressing :
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4493665&cid=45638701
  Idiots can mistake it to be a "crack site" so you are spot on for your level.
  
  Why pretend to be so stupid? Do I have to dumb the question down even more? Draw in crayon?
  So, now this question is to you. If you reacted like that to "XDA" earlier, how come you suddenly forgot what XDA is ?
  
  I'm going to regurgitate this content free thread the next time I catch you picking on somebody for fun. Acting dumb isn't so fun now is it?
  Great. Though it is you that are acting dumb, but sure, go ahead.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Drawing you a picture in crayon by dbIII · 2013-12-11 10:22 · Score: 1

I was reacting to your comments about it - so now - about thirty posts or so after I first asked - what is XDA?
1. Re:Drawing you a picture in crayon by bingoUV · 2013-12-11 15:04 · Score: 1
  
  What did Google tell you?
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.