Slashdot Mirror
3-D Printed Gun Ban Fails In Senate
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from The Daily Dot:"On Monday evening, a bill aimed at thwarting the production and distribution of plastic 3-D printed weapons was blocked by Senate Republicans. ... The debate over the new legislation centered around the 1988 Undetectable Firearms Act, which bans the production and distribution of weapons that skirt 'walk through metal detectors.' The act has been renewed on two occasions since its passage. It was due to expire again on the 9th of December. The House voted to renew the bill last week. The rise of 3-D printing has made this year's renewal more complicated in the Senate. Many lawmakers, particularly Democrats, feel the current Undetectable Firearms Act inadequately addresses the rising threat posed by printed plastic weapons."
CBS Says it passed
I believe the Senate Democrats wanted to create a new, tougher bill. The bill that started in the house was passed by both the house and senate. President Obama signed the bill.
If we can delay it long enough, 3d printing might get good enough that all gun control is moot. We can defeat it like we defeated the Clipper Chip - by letting the cat out of the bag.
Is it just me or does this seem like more double speak from this administration?
I'm going to have to call complete bullshit on this one, now while a 3d printed gun may be able to go through a detector unnoticed don't we currently have police state style pat downs anyway that render a metal detector useless, this isn't even getting into the scanners.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Why create a whole new law when the existing one is perfectly adequate?
All of us commit three felonies a day because those asshats in our legislatures just keep piling the laws on to solve non-existent problems.
This is yet another distraction by the ruling class to keep our minds off of our continually declining standard of living.
Undetectable guns are already banned. The failed legislation was a modification to require inclusion of metal components that would be hard to remove. If you think about it, that doesn't make much sense....its either detectable or its not. Those with criminal intent would not likely be deterred by this minor modification.
When we have blatantly inaccurate /. articles to spread fear and panic.
Why does the article bring up Sandy Hook? It has nothing to do with this issue.
No matter where you go, there you are.
I believe the Senate Democrats wanted to create a new, tougher bill
How do you make a law that bans undetectable guns? It's like trying to make zero more nothing.
New tougher version: "The gun has to be really really really really detectable."
- Sen. Zoolander (D)
Don't you already need a license to manufacture firearms?
Bullets are detectable, right? Good luck making plastic casings for those. Oh, and plastic slugs of course.
-- Sent from a computer.
Some of us don't want to live in a Mad Max style dystopia where every criminal, racist, and nut case can get their hands on whatever gun they want.
You already live in that world. The only question left is if every sane and law abiding citizen should also be able to get a gun to protect themselves.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The stupidity of banning 3D guns is that you are trying to ban something someone does in the privacy of their own home.
Laws that are utterly unenforceable and just exist to make people feel good have no place in our world.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You can only go so far with setting restrictions on things like this. When a criminal is desperate enough, they will commit crime with so much as a finger-gun in their pocket and a scribbled note. The laws becomes ineffective at some point. There is no point in spending further time/money on legislation that isn't going to prevent more crime.
Printing plastic guns is a novelty. The only people doing it are hobbyists who are enthusiastic enough to buy the equipment and companies who want street cred' in manufacturing. Criminals are just not going to spend the time trying to print a weapon when so many other options are available. The ones who do will be the publicity whores looking to make national news and capitalize off the ridiculous drama currently being created around the issue.
Want to prevent more gun crime? Start with adequate state-sponsored mental health facilities, stiffer penalties for bullying and high school/workplace "terrorism", loss of permit for negligent CCW abuses (along with annual safety courses).
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
"On Monday evening, a bill aimed at thwarting the production and distribution of plastic 3-D printed weapons was blocked by Senate Republicans.
Bloody well right it was. Good oh! to the (flawed beyond repair though they may be) protectors of liberty.
I doubt the bill said anything about 3D printing, it is about plastic guns that are hard to detect with a magnetometer. Could be fabricated with a 3D printer, but also by, say, injection molding, or conventional machining. Let's not demonize 3D printers unnecessarily.
Because the senate has a sane 60% of the vote rule ? Maybe you should learn how the system work before commenting...
Government works the same way. How else did we get the Patriot Act, NSA funding for all that evil nonsense, more and more draconian "hacking" laws, as well as "terrorist" laws? How else do they justify dragging grammar school children out of their classrooms for pointing a fingers and saying "Bang!"
Welcome to the 21st Century, Comrade.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Has there been a single documented case of someone using a 3D-printed plastic gun to commit a crime?
Have you looked at Chicago lately? The dystopia is here already, thanks to gun control nuts.
I trust the gun nuts far more than I trust the gun control nuts.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
It's all Bush's fault! BUSH, BUSH, BUSH, BUSH!! It's all Bush's fault, doesn't matter that the house is controlled by the other party!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Sigh.
The whole Undetectable Firearm Act has always been a piss in the wind . There is no such things as full polymer/plastic undetectable firearms mainstream firearm. Most of this is pure paranoia following the introduction of Glock pistols, but guess what ? There is plenty of metal part in a Glock, unless of course you believe Die Hard 2 is a reliable source of firearm information. The barrel, the action are mostly metal, that is the parts handling most of the stress. Only the frame and other low stress stressed parts are made of polymer. Even without the UFA, there would be no point in a full polymer firearm, the materials just don't have the strength to handle the stress and pressure of a round going off, not to mention the rifling in the barrel would wear out pretty quick...
Yes, everyone should be able to manufacture undetectable plastic firearms which they can then get into planes, or any other place they wish to commit some atrocity.
Yes, we need to restrict civil liberties and spend billions spying on everthing everyone does in order to protect us from "the bad guys".
The reality is that all these bills are an attempt to make the people feel like the government is doing something about their fears. Gun control laws are not going to stop dedicated criminals from obtaining and misusing guns. Regulating ammunition would be more effective and even that will only be partially so. People can make their own ammo as well as making their own guns. The difference is that making your own ammo from scratch requires alot more work then just printing a gun these days. Either way though, bans and regulations are safety blanket measures. Something to make the the people feel safe without ever actually doing anything about the real problems.
I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
Actually, there are simple majority (51%) and supermajority (60%) rules.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
then a law passed by a bunch of professional politicians in Congress and signed by a President responsible for the iron flood of guns into the hands of the Mexican cartels won't phase them.
So what if your gun is undetectable. Bullets are still made of metal and will show up on Xray and metal detectors. But even these 3D printed guns have small bits of metal in them for the firing pin.
"The rising threat", rofl. Once again trade some of your liberty away because of "fear".
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Funny that academics don't pin-point race as a risk factor. Sounds like you read that in some alternative media, and now it is your reality -- cause its just such a nice story. Any academic citation to back it up though? Something published that passed peer review?
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Serious question. You can take a gun anywhere you want but without ammo it's just a blunt instrument to strike someone with. Is there any indication someone has developed 3D printed bullets that won't explode the casing?
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
3? You're not even trying. I commit probably 6-8 a day min.
For one, I don't accept there are two categories: there are plenty of people that cross those lines depending on context (speeding, other "minor" laws), or groups of interacting people that in aggregate blur these categories, or people that might be tempted/forced to switch groups due to some external circumstance.
1) I care because a lot of guns are acquired by criminals from honest people, either knowingly/negligently (gun shows without background checks being the obvious example) or inadvertently (lost/stolen). Reducing the legal boundaries of plastic/undetectable guns means that there are going to be fewer of these and a correspondingly lower probability these guns will be widely distributed or used.
2) The "if a criminal really wants to" argument assumes that all crimes are carefully planned and executed, when facts show otherwise. Statistically, most crimes are unplanned, opportunistic, and random. The chances of all kinds guns (plastic/undetectable being one subset) being used is lowered when access is reduced. Again, facts and statistics bear this out in places where gun control limits access and there is correspondingly lower rates of run related crimes.
Overall, bans like this do have a simple, logical effect of reducing crime. In concert with other measures, laws in general reduce the probability of potential actors from simultaneously having the means (anti-organized crime, gun bans), motive (anti-poverty measures, education, penal), and opportunity (police patrols, security systems) to commit crime. No single thing with STOP all crime for all time.
People also make meth in the privacy of their own homes... So do laws banning meth only exist to make people feel good?
Actually the answer is still yes, as it is with most casual drug use of ANY kind of drug. Some countries have legalized all drugs, understanding that then they can help the small number of people who get addicted instead of being able to use drugs responsibly.
However meth is a bit of a special case, because the making of it basically renders a home unlivable, and poisons the other people living there or even nearby. But you still shouldn't ban meth or meth ingredients, just require it be made in proper facilities.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Correct! Problem is, despite them knowing that they, out Rep's, do exactly this, they believe their constituency believes that 'something' should be done about 3D printed gun parts before it might become a problem. It's a self propagating system of justification we have going on here.
I'd say scrap the whole lot and start over, but the electorate is just as bad as those that are representing them. This is an american problem, and no amount of education on the matter is going to fix it.
Show me an undetectable piece of firearm ammunition and I'll start to worry. A 3D plastic gun is useless if you can't get ammunition in to the building as well.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Yeah...printed guns. Such danger. I have a 200 round gas-powered rifle that breaks the sound barrier and has no serial number and it's legal in all 50 states. It fires at 1400FPs and breaks the sound barrier on the way out. It can fire sleeved and tracer rounds...still legal btw. Under $200 too if I'm not mistaken. Semi auto too. 100% off the shelf, unmodified too. Still legal.
Idiots, all the way down?
The purpose of gun (and any weapon) ownership, carrying, and use is indeed about crime prevention. However, it is not so much about defending oneself from an anonymous thug as it is about defending oneself from the criminals collectively known as The Government. Since power corrupts, the framers of the U.S. Constitution tried to distribute the power as widely as reasonably achievable - everyone has the right to be armed (gun, hatchet, knife, whatever) until you have proven yourself a felon, every one of us has the right of redress for harm, everyone has the right of free speech (now, not just at voting time), we all have the right to pursue acquisition of property, etc.
As long as we're dancing round the issue, I'll just come out and say it. There's definitely a link between love of guns and intelligence. Look at the gun loving states. Sorry, but they pretty much always have lower educational levels and, let's postulate, lower IQs. The dumber the state, the greater the love of guns. I'd like to see a nice a nice visual showing a us map overlaying gun ownership, average educational levels, and crime.....
I would tell you to cite the law for this, but you can't because it's not illegal.