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First US Public Library With No Paper Books Opens In Texas

cold fjord writes "Bexar Country in Texas has opened a new $2.3 million library called BiblioTech. It doesn't have physical books, only computers and e-reader tablets. It is the first bookless public library system in the U.S. The library opened in an area without nearby bookstores, and is receiving considerable attention. It has drawn visitors from around the U.S. and overseas that are studying the concept for their own use. It appears that the library will have more than 100,000 visitors by year's end. Going without physical books has been cost effective from an architecture standpoint, since the building doesn't have to support the weight of books and bookshelves. A new, smaller library in a nearby town cost $1 million more than Bexar Country's new library. So far there doesn't appear to be a problem with returning checked out e-readers. A new state law in Texas defines the failure to return library books as theft."

212 comments

  1. Presidential Library? by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is it a presidential library, perchance?

    1. Re:Presidential Library? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, President Obama is still deciding.

  2. Why bother by jabberw0k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A library without books is... pointless. Why not just build a Starbucks or a McDonalds. Or, actually, an empty room. What a waste.

    1. Re:Why bother by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      e-books

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Why bother by LikwidCirkel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're confusing medium with content. Physical books are not important in themselves - it's the content within them that's important, and that does not have to be tied to a particular medium. One can be very well-read nowadays without ever laying hands on dead trees.

    3. Re:Why bother by arobatino · · Score: 2

      Exactly. If the content is available digitally, they should put up a website like Open Library so people anywhere in the world can access it.

    4. Re:Why bother by TheloniousToady · · Score: 4, Informative

      The computers at libraries such as this one seem to be quite a useful public service. Every time I go to my local public library, the computers are mostly all in use. They provide Internet access for people who can't afford it themselves, notably people who are out of a job and need to fill out a job application online, as is now commonly required.

    5. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Starbucks or McDonalds won't have you arrested for failure to return their coffee after your done with it with a max retention time of X! They probably even prefer that you do not. So there is some difference besides being much noisier. If you do return your coffee there, you better make sure no one steals your "Library Book" while your in their "deposit returns room" or you might go to jail.

    6. Re:Why bother by jabberw0k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I wanted to read the Internet, I could stay home. Print on paper is an utterly different experience. You know -- Tactile, spatial (how far into the book you are, what side of the page) -- not to mention, you can slip bookmarks into pages, photocopy them, and pass them around between several people.

      When I check half a dozen books out of the library, I read one, I pass it along to Mom while she's reading another, and to Dad, and my brother... How do you propose doing that with a bunch of e-books?

    7. Re:Why bother by ranton · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A library without books is... pointless.

      A library which focuses primarily on books is ... almost pointless.

      Libraries are there to help improve the general level of education of the nearby population. Storing and lending books were by far the most important functions of libraries when books were the primary source of information in our culture. That is not even close to true anymore. I spend over $200 per month on books at Amazon each month, so I am a heavy reader, but I still consume most information online. And I was a holdout when it came to getting an e-reader, but over half of my book reading is now done on my iPad. In fact the reason I finally bought an iPad last year is because I found myself reading books from my phone far more often than reading paper books, and I wanted a better form factor.

      Like it or not, the Internet is a better source of most information now. So libraries need to adapt to that in order to perform their function as education centers. That means more real estate for computers and less for books. With less emphasis on books libraries can also focus on more personal relationships with the community. I go to about five lectures at my local library per year and find them very interesting. I think other services like tutoring and job skill training make a lot of sense in modern libraries as well. I know my local library has many classes each season such as basic accounting, how to appeal your real estate assessment, computer training, etc. These are all far more important than renting out books IMHO.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    8. Re:Why bother by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      A library without books is... pointless. Why not just build a Starbucks or a McDonalds. Or, actually, an empty room. What a waste.

      Not at all. Libraries are only superficially about books. What they are really about is knowledge and that comes in many forms. That's why libraries have music and films too and why they are starting to include makerspaces.

      My concern with something like this is that some libraries are swayed by the arguments for DRM. But there is the beginning of a movement for libraries to crowd traditional publishers out of their niche which should mean DRM is completely out of the picture in those cases.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    9. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A real library with physical books allows you to legally read copyrighted books at no cost. A macdonalds or starbucks or other plain old internet connection does not.

      I'm not sure where the bookless library in the TFA stands on this, as I have not, of course, actually read TFA, but it is potentially different from just an internet connection.

    10. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is easier to censor books, only a click away.

    11. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One can be very well-read nowadays without ever laying hands on dead trees.

      But how many well-read people never wipe their ass? ;)

    12. Re:Why bother by khasim · · Score: 1

      I'm more concerned with DRM. And the concept that you do not "own" media any more. You just "rent" it.

      A library can lend a physical book thousands of times for just the price of the book.

      Once you get into digital media, the publisher can demand a payment per check-out.

    13. Re:Why bother by dj245 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A library without books is... pointless.

      A library which focuses primarily on books is ... almost pointless.

      Libraries are there to help improve the general level of education of the nearby population. Storing and lending books were by far the most important functions of libraries when books were the primary source of information in our culture. That is not even close to true anymore. I spend over $200 per month on books at Amazon each month, so I am a heavy reader, but I still consume most information online. And I was a holdout when it came to getting an e-reader, but over half of my book reading is now done on my iPad. In fact the reason I finally bought an iPad last year is because I found myself reading books from my phone far more often than reading paper books, and I wanted a better form factor.

      Like it or not, the Internet is a better source of most information now. So libraries need to adapt to that in order to perform their function as education centers. That means more real estate for computers and less for books. With less emphasis on books libraries can also focus on more personal relationships with the community. I go to about five lectures at my local library per year and find them very interesting. I think other services like tutoring and job skill training make a lot of sense in modern libraries as well. I know my local library has many classes each season such as basic accounting, how to appeal your real estate assessment, computer training, etc. These are all far more important than renting out books IMHO.

      The problem with a library full of e-books currently is the licensing, which the 'article' unhelpfully doesn't discuss at all. Libraries buy books and they own them. Or people can donate books and then the library owns them. You don't own an e-book, you license it. Most licenses for ebooks for libraries go on a per-checkout model where the library has to pay for each checkout. Suddenly the library isn't a place where you can buy a book, read it once, donate it to the library, and support them that way.

      If the library owns the books, then they have a collection, and that collection is a community asset. If the library has to pay for each checkout, I feel that any donation is just subsidizing poor/cheap people's amazon ebook purchases. You can't donate ebooks to the library so all this money has to come from taxes/cash donations. Ultimately at that point the library is an expensive internet cafe and a place taxpayer money is funneled into Amazon in an inefficient way.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    14. Re:Why bother by Garridan · · Score: 1

      I never bother; I'm too busy turning pages.

    15. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno, got a bidet.

    16. Re:Why bother by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You're confusing medium with content. Physical books are not important in themselves - it's the content within them that's important, and that does not have to be tied to a particular medium. One can be very well-read nowadays without ever laying hands on dead trees.

      e-books are also easier to scrub of offensive information like evolution. Very important in Texas.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    17. Re:Why bother by icebike · · Score: 2

      If I wanted to read the Internet, I could stay home. Print on paper is an utterly different experience. You know -- Tactile, spatial (how far into the book you are, what side of the page) -- not to mention, you can slip bookmarks into pages, photocopy them, and pass them around between several people.

      When I check half a dozen books out of the library, I read one, I pass it along to Mom while she's reading another, and to Dad, and my brother... How do you propose doing that with a bunch of e-books?

      And buggy whips are a whole lot better experience than stepping on the accelerator. (except for the horse)

      Come on, waxing eloquent about past has been a tired cliche since the Pleistocene.

      Books are heavy, cumbersome to hold, impossible to operate with one hand, subject to wear and tear, and take up a whole bunch of room.

      As for the passing along of ebooks, its easy. Since you all read the same books, put all your e-readers on the same account. Done.
      I seldom take more than one book out of my library at once, because I do it on the e-reader, and can return it and have another in about 26 seconds. But of I'm going on vacation and won't be near wifi, I can download a couple dozen. (I've got three months worth of purchased reading on the ereader at any one time).

      Granted, Books are better when there are maps involved, (history books), or extensive cross referencing needed, but for most reading ebooks are just fine, and you can hold the reader in one hand, and fit it in your pocket.

      Pick any E-reader and try it out. they are getting dirt cheap. Get one that can borrow from your local library, as well as any library where you can get a library card. And also access all the free ebook sites (there are dozens).

      Ok, I'm getting off your lawn.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    18. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, do fuck off with this luddism meme. It has nothing to do with dislike for progress and everything to do with e-readers only duplicating a subset of the paper reading experience while having their own set of disadvantages.

      For some people, e-readers are good enough. For many other people, e-readers are entirely deficient. Just because they're sold as a replacement it doesn't meant they are a replacement. Just because they fit your use cases it doesn't mean they fit everyone's use cases. Just because you enjoy e-readers it doesn't mean everyone else enjoys e-readers.

      And, if modern civilisation goes the way of every other civilisation and dies off, I know where all the salvageable information will be.

    19. Re:Why bother by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2

      If a library costs $1.5m more to build and probably tens of thousands of dollars per year more to maintain with shelving and cataloging etc then you can afford to take that $1.5m put it into a trust and probably pay the entirety of your annual licensing fees out of the trust's Capitol Gains.

      Checking out a book costs a library about $0.50 per checkout. And a hardback book costs about $27. The average checkouts per year for a book is 23. That means a library per hardback book pays $11.50 per year per book in checkout expenses even if it was donated but if we assume a book has a 4 year life then the life cost of a physical book is $46. W/ the hardback book costs added in it becomes more like $73. With some estimates of replacements only every 2 years that would increase to nearly $100.

      An average ebook for a library is about $75. That's pretty comparable to 3 years of physical book expenses. If you bought e-books with your $1.5m in infrastructure savings fund (Let's say 8% return) then you would be looking at 1,600 new e-books every year added to your 'collection' for free. I doubt the average library gets 1,600 new physical books donated every year. In 3 years when you would be re-buying many of your physical books your e-book library would have an additional 4,800 books.

      You commit the fallacy of believing that physical assets don't depreciate and need replacement over time.

    20. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I wanted to read the Internet, I could stay home.

      Sure, but if you want to do any academic research, those journal articles are going to cost you upwards of $40 a pop or $500 per database. Libraries subscribe to databases and take that cost for you.

      how far into the book you are

      All major e-readers show this. In all the ones I've used, this appears on every page.

      you can slip bookmarks into pages

      You can do this with e-readers.

      photocopy them

      Copy and paste.

      When I check half a dozen books out of the library, I read one, I pass it along to Mom while she's reading another, and to Dad, and my brother... How do you propose doing that with a bunch of e-books?

      The library loans out e-readers. Your mother, father, and brother can all check out an e-reader and pack it with books that interest them. Then just rotate the e-readers themselves.

    21. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the fact that most books older that, what, 10 years aren't digitized and most speciality books aren't digitized either. It's a win to provide free electronics for those who lack such, but that's not a library.

    22. Re:Why bother by icebike · · Score: 1

      Oh, do fuck off with this luddism meme. It has nothing to do with dislike for progress and everything to do with e-readers only duplicating a subset of the paper reading experience while having their own set of disadvantages.

      I'm so over fondling pages of real books. If that's how you get your enjoyment, put your ereader inside of any random outdated encyclopedia so you can play with the pages, smell the moldy paper, end enjoy the paper cuts.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    23. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I live libraries are places where adolescents show each other videos using Facebook.

    24. Re:Why bother by volmtech · · Score: 1

      How about disabilities? I can't hold a book. If the text is large enough for me to read it also has to be a big book. I prop up my tablet, set the text up to a readable size, and tap the screen with my pinky to turn the page. In my younger days I loved the library and have purchased thousands of books and magazines but I can't enjoy them now.

    25. Re:Why bother by celle · · Score: 2

      "Physical books are not important in themselves - it's the content within them that's important, and that does not have to be tied to a particular medium."

            Longevity, consistency, and usability of the medium is important. Dead trees last centuries, epads don't survive the first hard drop. Content on dead trees is permanent, content on epads can be changed at any time to suit or manipulate current events. Open a book and read, no power, range, or other limits and visual issues have been worked out for centuries. A epad still has eye strain issues, headaches, power limits, and range if using wi-fi.
                The content is only useful if it's around when you need it.

    26. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My local library has empty rooms. They're public meeting rooms for community organizations, clubs, businesses that don't have the space, or anyone else who would like to reserve them. They also host after-school study groups and reading programs for kids, cubicle area for studying (or getting work done), musical performances from local musicians, monthly rotating art on the walls from local artists that can be purchased, author readings, guest lectures, film showings, and discussion groups on a wide range of topics. Free public internet access as others have mentioned.

      Oh, and it has books.

    27. Re:Why bother by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      or going to a 2.3million dollar library

    28. Re:Why bother by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you describe is common. When I was unemployed I spoke to many folks who had to rely on the library or the PCs at the unemployment office to searcha and manage job applications as well as their unemployment insurance documentation.
      Internet access is a necessity for the unemployed.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    29. Re:Why bother by RocketRabbit · · Score: 0

      The issue that is at hand here is that a public library stores books so that they are available to the public. An e-book library doesn't store books or data - it's all rented except for the hardware. One budget misstep and your library goes dark forever. If Amazon decides to change the terms of the deal, you're out of a library.

      The medium is an important part of the information, because some media are more stable and reliable than others. Sure, a fire can torch a library accidentally, but one business can not decide to invalidate the library.

      Dead trees are still the best thing going.

    30. Re:Why bother by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 0

      Dead trees last centuries, epads don't survive the first hard drop.

      Hilariously false. Dead trees last, at most, decades, and that's only if they're not used much. Under frequent use they last a few years max. My e-reader on the other hand, under almost daily use in sometimes rather adverse conditions (I've lugged it up mountains in Thailand, down the Mekong, across open ocean in an outrigger canoe, etc), has lasted four years in perfect functioning order. Dead trees would never have survived the abuse I've put my kindle through. The battery doesn't last as long as it used to (I used to be able to read seven to eight novels on a single charge, now I get about one or two novels), but it's long enough to still not matter much.

      That some people don't know how to handle electronics is not the electronics fault.

    31. Re:Why bother by drkim · · Score: 1

      A library without books is... pointless. Why not just build a Starbucks or a McDonalds. Or, actually, an empty room. What a waste.

      This will be next door to the all robot strip club.

    32. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on, waxing eloquent about past has been a tired cliche since the Pleistocene.

      Just like fawning over newest and even more shiny stuff has become a tired cliche I guess.

      As for the passing along of ebooks, its easy. Since you all read the same books, put all your e-readers on the same account. Done.

      Yep, and pay way more for that account. Done.

      Either that, or being forbidden (read: made impossible) to use the account for more than one person.

      I seldom take more than one book out of my library at once, ... have another in about 26 seconds. ... (I've got three months worth of purchased reading on the ereader at any one time).

      Always funny to see someone contradicting his own point in the very same line: Why the <bleep> do you have more than a single e-book on/in there when getting a newer one only takes 26 seconds ?

      And you might be only *taking* one book at at time, but it sure looks you have way more than one in your possession at any single time.

      ... and fit it in your pocket.

      Really now ? Most of those readers are not at all flexible, and most places with pockets you always have with you do not have flat surfaces (as my wallet can certainly contest to). Also, most e-readers of such a pocketable size have a usable reading space even less than a standard-sized pocketbook.

      Pick any E-reader and try it out. they are getting dirt cheap.

      Yep. And within just a few years that e-reader will be, for multiple reasons, landfill material, and the DRMed e-books themselves, even if backupped elsewhere, unusable. Hello to having to re-buy those books you really liked (downloading them for keeps ? Only if its copyright has expired or has explicitily put in the public domain. And whomever "sells" you the e-book did not put DRM on it regardless)

      And lets not talk about the fact that those e-readers often only accept a (small) subset of e-book formats (especially when DRM comes into play), can physically break or suffer software crashes, need to be reacharged and all of that.

      Yep, I can only see a positive future for that e-reader of yours and the e-books on/connected to it. :-)

    33. Re:Why bother by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Books are heavy, cumbersome to hold, impossible to operate with one hand, subject to wear and tear, and take up a whole bunch of room."

      And these 'pages', real readers just use scrolls of animal hide, all one 1 page, much easer to read than those cut-out pages of vegetable pulp.
      Nicer to the touch too.

      My dad is old fashioned, he only reads stone tablets, but those are too fragile for me, you can't even drop them.

    34. Re:Why bother by aaronb1138 · · Score: 1

      People miss that another point of a library as a societal archive. We've invested as a society (the modern west that is) so very much in libraries partially because of how greatly their archaeological legacy from previous cultures impacted us.

      I would much rather see a library with lots of books and let you either choose the book or scan the barcode to check it out. This also makes more sense for letting people wander into a good book. Even with a nice Netflix style browsing system, you'll never get the exposure to obscure, overlooked, or just out of your comfort zone books you get from walking the isles.

      Consider that in many ways, electronic browsing of books actually plays to the current shit direction in IP based media... less variety, less experimenting, more guaranteed hits. We'll likely see many of the electronic browsing formats give "top picks" and such leaning ever increasingly in the direction of being direct advertising as well.

    35. Re:Why bother by ConaxConax · · Score: 1

      you can slip bookmarks into pages, photocopy them, and pass them around between several people.

      I suppose you could photocopy your e-reader.

    36. Re:Why bother by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      If I wanted to read the Internet, I could stay home.

      THANK YOU. I officially nominate you as genius of the decade ... and please let me use that quote at will!

    37. Re:Why bother by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      If the library owns the books, then they have a collection, and that collection is a community asset. If the library has to pay for each checkout, I feel that any donation is just subsidizing poor/cheap people's amazon ebook purchases. You can't donate ebooks to the library so all this money has to come from taxes/cash donations. Ultimately at that point the library is an expensive internet cafe and a place taxpayer money is funneled into Amazon in an inefficient way.

      Not to mention, paper books avoid the format problem. I can check out a paper book the library got in 1930, and if it hasn't physically fallen apart, I can still read it.

    38. Re:Why bother by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      If I wanted to read the Internet, I could stay home.

      THANK YOU. I officially nominate you as genius of the decade ... and please let me use that quote at will!

      Just remember: If Man had been intended to use the Internet, He'd have been born with builtin WiFi.

    39. Re:Why bother by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Dead trees last centuries, epads don't survive the first hard drop.

      Hilariously false. Dead trees last, at most, decades, and that's only if they're not used much. Under frequent use they last a few years max. My e-reader on the other hand, under almost daily use in sometimes rather adverse conditions (I've lugged it up mountains in Thailand, down the Mekong, across open ocean in an outrigger canoe, etc), has lasted four years in perfect functioning order. Dead trees would never have survived the abuse I've put my kindle through. The battery doesn't last as long as it used to (I used to be able to read seven to eight novels on a single charge, now I get about one or two novels), but it's long enough to still not matter much.

      That some people don't know how to handle electronics is not the electronics fault.

      Several years ago, a pipe failed in the upstairs apartment and completely flooded every square inch of my own, right down to the backs of the closets. A lot of books were extensively damaged. Some were completely ruined, others have pages and covers permanently warped, including a few specially-bound "collector" editions (fortunately space requirements and price mean that I mostly have paperbacks).

      I have dropped e-readers more times than I want to think about, and have yet to seriously damage one - which is more than my Palm Pilot could claim. My ebooks are backed up to multiple types of media to reduce the chances of permanent loss. Plus, of course, the commercial books are "backed up" on the bookstore's servers.

      I, too, like physical books, magazines, and newspapers. And for some uses, won't even consider electronic format. But I truly do enjoy the benefits of the electronic forms where applicable. I'm not going to be pretentious about the relative worth of one format or the other.

    40. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not such a big deal a normal Texas library has only one title anyways even if most Texans never read it and feel its its a bit socialist called the bible.

    41. Re:Why bother by luca.masters · · Score: 1

      When someone offers you a choice between several books, do you feel texture of the pages and sniff the book, or do you choose based on their contents? This one contains a futuristic tale of suspense. That one a selection of Bible readings. This a history of geometry. This one is musty. That one has glossy pages. This one has rough-cut edges.

      I'm one of those readers who actually read books for their contents. I suspect you are as well. I know of no one who chooses their books based on the physical feel of it. The point of books is their content, and ebooks contain the same content. The point of libraries is to provide people access to the content of books, and this library makes that content available to its patrons.

      Seems to me that this library serves the same purpose as a regular library.

    42. Re:Why bother by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      A library without books is... pointless. Why not just build a Starbucks or a McDonalds. Or, actually, an empty room. What a waste.

      Not at all. The books are there, available to be "checked out" and read, just as in a library filled with dead-tree books. If you'd read TFA, you'd know that, and you'd also realize that this setup is almost entirely different from your "Starbucks or...McDonalds" vision. Try getting an ebook (and a reader) at your local Starbucks with just your library card, dumbass.

    43. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plesae do not confuse public libraries with Internet access via wifi-enabled commercialized space. In fact, I don't even know what I just said.

      The public library as defined by my meager attempt is:

      a quiet place, of safety and solace, without filtering or censorship, allowing one the fortitude and time to study, and provide to others and receive from others the reflection of in-depth content available provided by the minds and output of million of contributors across thousands of years.

      AndyFlagg of 89512
      thanks for reading / -- A volunteer in so many libraries for over 20 years.

    44. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Several weeks ago, I checked a copy of Frank Herbert's "Dune" out from my local library. As it turns out, the book in question was an original mid-1960s copy, the very first edition of "Dune." The paper for each page was so much thicker than modern hardcopy books that I kept thinking I had two pages stuck together when I was turning pages while reading. I'm old enough to have spent half a century or more reading from paper books. I have a Kindle Fire and read some books on it as well, but nothing will replace a "real" book in my hands or my heart. Guess, I'm just old fashioned.

    45. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that the common core no longer requires us to learn cursive, certain older books, or documents as someone pointed out in another story, will have a "format" or "font" problem. (Personally, I think cursive should be taught, or rather, required to be read at the very least.)

      Electronic books can have their font changed, correct? Also, translations are possible, right? Although I assume there'd be licensing issues.

    46. Re:Why bother by waynemorrise · · Score: 1

      As long as it provides information, help and spread knowledge to others, then why disapprove it? I guess what we need to do is to keep moving forward and accept what has been established.

  3. Makes Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every time I've visited a library in the UK all the users are just browsing Facebook or playing games on the computers, or lending out DVDs of Hollywood movies. Cutting out the books entirely would seem like a sensible move because nobody seems to read them.

    1. Re:Makes Sense by justthinkit · · Score: 2

      My trip to the library to pick up books takes all of two minutes. Go in, pick up holds, check them out, leave. Facebook dude is there for who knows how long. No comparison.

      --
      I come here for the love
    2. Re:Makes Sense by mendax · · Score: 1

      Cutting out the books entirely would seem like a sensible move because nobody seems to read them.

      I beg to differ. I have an e-book reader given to me as a gift stuffed with free e-books of works in the public domain. Yet, I hardly ever use it because I prefer to read paper books. There are many people who use the stacks in a traditional library; you just never seem to notice them. My sister is one of them. She reads about 100 books a year, all novels, all traditional books from the local library.

      --
      It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    3. Re:Makes Sense by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

      Facebook dude is there for who knows how long. No comparison.

      Yeah, well. That's just, like your opinion, man.

    4. Re:Makes Sense by jabberw0k · · Score: 1

      Yea, verily.

      I like to wander the stacks, looking for unusual shape books, interesting covers... pull a book out, read a few random paragraphs in the middle, maybe peek at the beginning or end, leaf through looking for photos and illustrations... How would you browse that way with a database of e-books?

    5. Re:Makes Sense by icebike · · Score: 1

      My trip to the library to pick up books takes all of two minutes. Go in, pick up holds, check them out, leave. Facebook dude is there for who knows how long. No comparison.

      My trips to the library are non-existent.
      My library comes to me on any one of my android devices, computers, or e-readers.

      Unless I live around the corner from the library, I couldn't justify driving uptown to the library, when I could get most of what I want digitally.
      I'm so over fondling books.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    6. Re:Makes Sense by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      We're similar in our library trips. For my kids, we'll still sometimes browse the shelves to see what they want to read, but for us we reserve the titles we want on the library's website. We're notified when the titles are in, pick them up, and then are ready to leave (once the kids pick out some books and/or DVDs). Just because we're not spending hours browsing the shelves doesn't mean we're not heavily utilizing our library system. To be honest, I don't think we've had zero books/DVDs checked out of the library for months. Every time we return some, we take more out.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  4. Yay or shiver....? by KitFox · · Score: 1

    As the owner of enough paper books to burn down a small invading zombie army, I'm really torn between applauding their innovation and cringing at the thought that paper in hand will be going the way of scrolls.

    --

    @Whee

  5. Interesting Concept by Jagungal · · Score: 1

    It is actually an interesting concept. Many Libraries that I am involved with in a support role are struggling to find a place in a modern world where the majority of people have the information that they need at their finger tips. People just do not visit Libraries in the way they used to.

    They are often now becoming a community service operation for the disadvantaged and often have more people using the internet than people actually borrowing books but even then the level of visitation makes it hard to justify them staying open.

    1. Re:Interesting Concept by mendax · · Score: 1

      It is actually an interesting concept. Many Libraries that I am involved with in a support role are struggling to find a place in a modern world where the majority of people have the information that they need at their finger tips. People just do not visit Libraries in the way they used to.

      They are often now becoming a community service operation for the disadvantaged and often have more people using the internet than people actually borrowing books but even then the level of visitation makes it hard to justify them staying open.

      Indeed, the last time I was in a library was to use one of their meeting rooms to meet with friends to discuss some crazy idea one of them had for a startup. It was on a Sunday afternoon and the library was inundated with people, people carrying books as well as DVD's and CD's. Libraries are more than simply a place to find books and get information. They have tried to become a place which can be considered to be the center of the local community.

      --
      It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    2. Re:Interesting Concept by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, my town recently built a new library that IIRC cost $26M (for a town of ~35,000) so they must think *somebody* uses it.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  6. Theft by Conversion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > A new state law in Texas defines the failure to return library books as theft.

    It already is. Theft by Conversion.

  7. Borrowing books by ls671 · · Score: 1

    I used to borrow books from my library. Will they lend me e-readers or tablets?

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    1. Re:Borrowing books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to borrow books from my library. Will they lend me e-readers or tablets?

      According to the summary, they do.

    2. Re:Borrowing books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    3. Re:Borrowing books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they lend e-books, like most libraries nowadays.
      Meaning the books are DRMed so the checkout expires.

    4. Re:Borrowing books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to borrow books from my library. Will they lend me e-readers or tablets?

      Yes, they will. That's the fucking point.

  8. Problems Will Arrive Soon by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    So far there doesn't appear to be a problem with returning checked out e-readers.

    Give it time, the place just opened. Broken, missing, and outdated readers will become an issue. Replacement cost of broken, worn-out, and technologically obsolete readers will be a major continuing cost, and throwing people in jail who lose/break them and can't afford the replacement cost will become a political issue.

    Also, I wonder if the library will get any financial return from the user data that will almost certainly make its way to Amazon and B&N?

    Wasn't this one of the background stories in "Robot and Frank"? I'ts not an idea I like. For me, reading is more than having access to the collection of words, reading a book is an experience I enjoy. There are probably many reasons, but I'm not a psychologist...

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Problems Will Arrive Soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ebook readers are available for as little as 49€ in Europe. That's not so much more than a good, ordinary book (well, lets say two or three books). The average reader would borrow two or three books, but will now carry only one device, and with a cover the device is more stable than a normal book. I don't think this will be a major problem. Also, not every customer will need a device, as some might have their own reader already.

    2. Re:Problems Will Arrive Soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're chasing at shadows. There is no reason to believe an e-reader device with internet browsing will not be able to last 3-5 years even without further updates. The tech is still young and still playing catch-up with what it could be, but the publishing industry is not moving that fast. Udpates to DRM may come, they may not. Words on a screen are not that hard to capture after all no matter what you try to do to them.

      Replacing devices due to damage or theft is much more of a concern, you are exactly right. For all we know though, as a non-traditional library there may be some kind of fee collected for checking these out as they are not media, but devices. There may also be insurance for them as devices instead of media too. A lot of details are not in the article cause its mostly a puff-piece.

  9. 10,000 books? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 3, Informative
    " BiblioTech purchases its 10,000-title digital collection for the same price as physical copies, but the county saved millions on architecture because the building's design didn't need to accommodate printed books."

    10,000 books? WTF? Even if they're sloggy PDF files at 5 megs each, that's only 50GB of books. You could fit that on a USB Key. I have 60,000 books on a drive. They're assembled as a collection in Calibre, and then indexed in Dropout. I can get any piece of data I want from them. My Personal Portable Library five times larger and thousands of times more useful than BiblioTech. What a pathetic piece of crap.

    There are plenty of online book sharing sites with millions of books available. For Free. Assemble your library NOW before the authorities shut it all down by force, or the neoliberal fuquads running the tech companies make it impossible by altering the direction of technology (dumb datapads hooked to private clouds is the first step...)

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:10,000 books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But you still don't have as many books on biblical numerism, young earth creationism, intelligent design or signs that the rapture is coming as the library in tx.

    2. Re:10,000 books? by etash · · Score: 2

      care to provide one such link for a site will millions of (free) books available (other than project gutenberg) - preferrably with the possibility to for batch downloading the whole archive ? and no I don't mean a LMGTFY link

    3. Re:10,000 books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first rule of [pirate site] is don't talk about [pirate site].

    4. Re:10,000 books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try, Mr. Publisher.

    5. Re:10,000 books? by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, archive.org for one. The US National Archives for special topics.

      But why "other than project gutenberg?" Project Gutenberg as 4x as many books as this "library" claims to have.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:10,000 books? by tlambert · · Score: 1

      I totally agree with the parent, the collection size is pathetic. I have >6,000 physical books I personally own, and they fit in a spare bedroom with room for a desk and about 20 computers on two bakers racks in it, along with several filing cabinets.

      The reading experience on eReaders is shit (I say this having worked on 3 of them, if you include the iPad), title selection is limited to things available as eBooks which leaves out almost everything that isn't pablum or that didn't come off copyright pre Sonny Bono "Save The Mouse For Disney!" copyright extensions (0 books come off copyright and enter the public domain in 2014), and it's trivially easy to both track reading habits, and to engage in censorship fairly instantly (think Snapchat for politically "inconvenient" books).

      This is just a really, really stupid idea. Excuse me now, I have to get back to building my EMP Gun Kit that I bought online.

    7. Re:10,000 books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are you compensating the authors and publishers to motivate more books being written in the future? I think you are shutting down the book publishing business while the authorities are trying to keep it going.

    8. Re:10,000 books? by icebike · · Score: 2

      care to provide one such link for a site will millions of (free) books available (other than project gutenberg) - preferrably with the possibility to for batch downloading the whole archive ? and no I don't mean a LMGTFY link

      There are at least a dozen, (and NO, you don't get to dismiss Gutenberg out of hand).
      Barnes and Nobel, Amazon, and Google all have scads of free titles. (You just have to know how to search).
      https://openlibrary.org/ over a million titles.
      There are several "lending" libraries that pool ebooks so you can borrow through OpenLibrary.org https://openlibrary.org/libraries (scroll down).

      You don't have enough time in your remaining life to read the number of freely available ebooks that a simple web search will turn up.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    9. Re:10,000 books? by icebike · · Score: 1

      I have 60,000 books on a drive. They're assembled as a collection in Calibre, and then indexed in Dropout.

      I love Calibre. Its a totally awesome application.

      My collection does not include 60k titles, because I collect only what I need, from legal sources.
      Calibre is running on a computer on my network all the time, and all of my devices can access it via the built in content server.
      All backed up on dropbox, all of it full text indexed.

      Once I buy an e-book, it goes into Calibre. The only thing that doesn't go in there is library books.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    10. Re:10,000 books? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      You could fit that on a USB Key.

      But "Flashbary" doesn't sound very inviting. Might as well turn off the lights and call it a "Blackbary".

    11. Re:10,000 books? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1

      If you're writing a book for money, you have no business writing a book.

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    12. Re:10,000 books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think that people don't deserve to be compensated for their efforts if those efforts create something of value, then you have no business offering an opinion in this thread.

  10. I fail to understand by Xeno-Root · · Score: 1

    Why do we continue to put up with this ridiculous artificial scarcity system.

    1. Re:I fail to understand by RandomFactor · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, there is really only an artificial scarcity of free ebooks.

      I think it is reasonable to assume that letting every library lend an infinite number of copies of every book would put a damper on sales, effectively making the ebook market into a 'donations only' market overnight.

      I haven't kept up, what is current thinking on how effective donation based selling is for ebook authors?

      --
      --- Mercutio was right.
    2. Re:I fail to understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why aren't you required to buy a buggy whip when you renew your car registration?
      Technology has changed. It doesn't make sense to pretend that it hasn't.

    3. Re:I fail to understand by icebike · · Score: 1

      I think it is reasonable to assume that letting every library lend an infinite number of copies of every book would put a damper on sales, effectively making the ebook market into a 'donations only' market overnight.

      True, throwing every e-book out there with unlimited duplication right would mean there would be no way for an author to make a living by writing.

      Some say this would be a blessing, but a brief tour through some of the self published trash available for free should disabuse you of that notion.
      Publishers and editors server a purpose almost as important as authors.

      However, libraries always work off of the same model as physical books, buy three copies to lend and lend only three at any one time.
      But ebook lending from libraries can make best sellers out books before they actually arrive in print form. (Eat Pray Love was one such book, where
      the e-book popularity triggered the best seller list status before the paperback hit the streets.)

      I'm just old fashion enough that I still think authors deserve and need an income.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:I fail to understand by icebike · · Score: 1

      The mere existence of technology does not circumvent or obsolete the agreement the society makes with authors, artists, and inventors.
      You insist on getting paid for your work, in spite of the fact that there is no scarcity of humans.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  11. Why doesn't netflix do this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honest question. Their streaming service lacks a lot of movies and it seems they are always hanging on deals for it.

    Why don't they take their vast DVD library and just stream 1 movie for every copy of DVD they have?

    If that's illegal, why not build an array of BR/DVD players that can access the movies like some giant redbox machine and stream it that way?

    Either way, they could greatly expand their offerings. I'd love to see this legalized, as I'm worried about the future of digital only content if it's illegal to build public libraries around them.

  12. Dangerously non-redundant and retconnable by spiritplumber · · Score: 0

    Not a bad idea, except: * A physical book, once printed, needs no further infrastructure to exist. I can read "Steam Plant Operation" by candlelight after I've been thrown back in time to 1300 with an undead army out for my blood. * DRM will be implemented in some way, so the ebook readers will depend on an external server, which may go down or be inaccessible for a number of physical or financial reasons. * It is too easy to retcon books or newspaper articles that way. If I go retrieve an NY Times about Snowden, where he is called a whistleblower, who is to say that six years from now Steven Harper won't be President and mandate retroactive editing "whistleblower" to "traitor"? Stereotypically Orwellian, yes, but a lot easier to implement with ebooks. Start innocuous, say by replacing "nigger" with "zombie" in Huckleberry Finn, and... The right way to do this? Do everything in pdf or similar format, with the ereaders connected to a local file server and the ability to use the ereader's memory as cache. I doubt they will be doing that.

    --
    Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
  13. What's more surprising... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... is choosing a french word for the name in Texas.

    1. Re:What's more surprising... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The world is always surprised that how few Texans are running around in cowboy boots and hats too. Or that the vast majority of them are relatively poor. Certainly not oil barons and cattle kings. Of the six national flags that have flown over Texas, one of them was that of France. Also, just like Texas's neighbor Louisiana, Cajuns and Creoles etc are part of their residents. Of course many would have to look those people up to even begin to consider who they are. It might help a bit if you researched things like the Louisiana purchase details and the history of the French in North America before and after that as well as in how claims involving it relative to those of the claimed borders of Mexico around the same times. And that is just to start things. You might be interested in the Pope's behind the scenes control of the Kingdom of France etc too.

    2. Re:What's more surprising... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      its cause it sounds similar to biblical so it must mean the same thing

    3. Re:What's more surprising... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spanish!

      'biblioteca' and 'technology' will give you BiblioTech.

    4. Re:What's more surprising... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? The french (along with everyone else it seems) helped settle texas.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castroville,_Texas

    5. Re:What's more surprising... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      French: Bibliotheque
      Spanish: Biblioteca
      Both from the Latin root 'bibliotheca' (meaning 'library'), which was borrowed from the Greek 'bibliotheke', also meaning library.

      In addition, even in English, we put BIBLIOGRAPHIES in our research papers listing sources and reference material to support our claims, a word that ALSO comes from the same Latin root. In short, "Biblio" means 'book,' and BiblioTech is a predictable, but clever, branding for a high-tech book lending service.

      Considering Texas shares a border with Mexico and has a massive population of spanish speakers, it's far more likely that they modeled the name after the Spanish word, but given that almost all of the Romance languages have similar words for library, all from the Latin root, your comment is just as meaningful as guffawing about how you're surprised that Texans would choose to name their shit with a Romanian word.

      In short: please die in a fire. You're clearly a fucking moron who doesn't understand how languages evolve and work, trying to score some cheap funnies on Texas because "heehaw pew pew yeeeeeeehaw ten gallon hats! steers and queers!"

  14. Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    while paper books actually do have some advantages...most libraries do not carry multiple copies of that book. A major advantage here is that every one of their readers can have the exact same book on it at the exact same time so 12 people in 12 households can all enjoy it at the same time.

    Secondly, if you read the article, this is actually a poorer area of the city in which many households do not have internet access. So putting it all on the web would still NOT benefit them.

    Do I think there should be an online library? Of course, its ridiculous that we do not have one yet in fact. Its a holdover from money-grubbing publication houses who want to continue to create an artificial scarcity of their product to keep prices higher than they should be. But is this a bad idea? A waste of money or time? Not at all, its a step in the right direction, and a big one at that.

    1. Re:Why NOT bother? by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 4, Insightful

      while paper books actually do have some advantages...most libraries do not carry multiple copies of that book. A major advantage here is that every one of their readers can have the exact same book on it at the exact same time so 12 people in 12 households can all enjoy it at the same time.

      Except reality doesn't work that way. Those wacky rights-holders still expect to be paid for content. Whoda thunk it?

      Electronic libraries have been around for years. Other than the paper, they work pretty much the same. The library licenses the content and is allowed to lend out X copies of the titles they license. If X+8 people want to borrow the same title, the 8 go on a wait list just like they would for a paper book. And the libraries often only have partial collections. They may have 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7 of a series but not books 4 and 6. Why? Heck if I know but they do. Or sometimes they'll have the entire series but only 1 copy for each book so it can take forever to get them all in the correct order because book 3 has a wait list of 40 people.

    2. Re:Why NOT bother? by davester666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      don't forget about expiring books. publishers also have 'can only lend X times' terms as well. the library might pay less for the book initially, but over time it is likely they will pay more if the book is at all popular.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'can only lend X times' is actually consistent with a paper version - have you ever seen the shape of a typical paperback after 10 or so readings?

    4. Re:Why NOT bother? by icebike · · Score: 1

      while paper books actually do have some advantages...most libraries do not carry multiple copies of that book. A major advantage here is that every one of their readers can have the exact same book on it at the exact same time so 12 people in 12 households can all enjoy it at the same time.

      Well not necessarily. Libraries still have to buy ebooks. Just like regular books. They can only afford so many, and can't lend out more than that.

      Most libraries subscribe to something like Overdrive, and actual house no ebook infrastructure themselves. (Madam librarian does not usually possess the computer skilz to do handle this). Overdrive keeps track of the lending, due dates, copies out, waiting lists, total copies owned, etc).

      Really, the internet has reached 89% of US households, either via broadband, dial up, or wireless.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Why NOT bother? by icebike · · Score: 2

      The other nice thing about this is that the libraries usually work through a company like Overdrive which allows them to get 8 copies of popular books, and then reduce the number of copies as demand slacks off, and move those copies to newer or more popular titles.

      That means instead of there being exactly one book in the inventory, there may be 3 or 8.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    6. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, why bother having the building at all? Set up a website, allow a book to be checked out by x number of people at a time, the rest wait in line.

    7. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that with a real book, the library can choose to mend or even re-bind a book that begins falling apart rather than just buying a completely new copy.

    8. Re:Why NOT bother? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      My library has eBooks available to take out. In fact, I just took out Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. (Somehow I never managed to read it and I wanted to rectify this mistake.) I go onto their website, choose the book, take it out (via Amazon), and then load it onto my Kindle. When it is due, it automatically gets removed. (Yes, there's DRM, but this is one place where DRM is appropriate - to enforce the expiration date of the library loan.) In addition, if you live in New York State, you can join the New York Public Library in New York City (you sign up online) and get eBooks from them. (They have a better selection than local libraries.)

      The change with the library in the article is that that one doesn't have physical books whereas my library has physical and electronic (and audio) books. I don't see libraries ditching physical books in the near future, but I definitely think more and more electronic books will be in stock in libraries over the next few years. Eventually, we may come to a point where the paper books are looked upon like microfiche is today: Something oddly out of date/A relic from another age.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    9. Re:Why NOT bother? by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In short: Artificial Scarcity is economically untenable

      Tell that to de Beers.

      But I think you're right that infinite supply pushes things to zero price. I also think that writers are going to continue to write, because writers have to write. Poverty is already the norm for writers, and chopping off the very top of the bell curve, i.e. those vanishingly few writers who do manage to pull in mega-bucks, probably won't influence the quality of literature much at all. It might even improve it.

      I worry more about journalism. We desperately need to maintain a corps of professional, quality journalists to maintain a functioning democracy. And they have to not only be paid, but have their professional work (foreign correspondents, investigative reporters) properly financed. That's expensive, and advertising support is probably going to be a failing model going forward. Likewise subscriptions. The best television journalism right now is either privately financed (Al Jazeera) or publicly financed (BBC). In the U.S., we're stuck with Anderson Cooper.

    10. Re:Why NOT bother? by John+Bodin · · Score: 1

      To bad the New York Public Library will only give you a card if your license has a physical address on it for New York. I have lived in the state all my life, but the only address that has ever been on my license is my PO Box, the same address that also is on all my bills as that is where they are mailed to. I also can not give them a copy of a land tax bill as I rent and the landlord pays the taxes.

      Well thought it would have been nice to sign up for all of a minute until I came across those terms.

      --
      John
    11. Re:Why NOT bother? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It's likely due to people not having e-readers, computers, internet and the likes. Also, if the books are on their devices, they can implement DRM controls and disable content if it is checked out too long without renewing it.

      But it might be interesting to see if frequent users couldn't purchase an E reader from the library and update content from the internet. That might be something that if it isn't already possible, the future might hold.

      Also, a bona fide library (traditionally requiring a building) enjoys certain exemptions from copyright law in the pursuit of lending books. Some of them can be found here. There may be some books that are reference by nature and aren't allowed to be lent out like regular books might be. In my area, you can copy the portions of the books you need for reference and take the copy with you or you can take notes and return it to the shelves. repair manuals, how too books, encyclopedias and other nonfiction reference materials come to mind. For about 2 years in the late 80's, I think the only time I went to the library was to look up how to fix a junker car I owned and photo copies of the repair manuals cost me 5 cents a copy. It is easier with the internet and tablets now, but then again, I ruined a kindle fire by smearing grease all over the touch screen while trying to turn the page.

    12. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, he was spot on with how it works with my local library in Iowa. Library has three "virtual copies" of Hyperion.

    13. Re:Why NOT bother? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you can get a card with some sort of mail to your regular address in order to prove you live there. The answer is somewhat simple, just ask the utility company to send you something directly to your house. If your mail doesn't go there because the postal service refuses to deliver, then have something sent to a friends house in your name like a magazine subscription. They will send a bill in your name to the friends house and you should receive it if the post office doesn't refuse to deliver it (they have refused to deliver mail in my area with different last names going to the same address unless you put in an address correction or call and bitch enough first).

      One other thing you could try is to have a friend mail a letter to your street address, it will get post marked and likely returned to sender, then have them place that in another envelope and mail it to your PO Box or just give it to you. I ran into a similar problem in the 90s and the magazine trick worked for me.

    14. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Those wacky rights-holders still expect to be paid for content. Whoda thunk it?"

      No one is against them getting paid. That's a business model problem. I am against privilege holders preventing me from freely copying anything I want without restriction. They have no right and it is my every right to freely copy anything I want without restriction and to freely redistribute it. I want all privileges that they have preventing me from doing so abolished. I am willing to live with the alleged doomsday consequences and to take that risk. My right to copy is worth more to me than whatever I allegedly gain from copy protection laws and I should not have to subsidize the business models of others (or whatever benefits others allegedly receive from the existence of copy protection laws) at the cost of my rights. Even if IP laws do result in more content those that benefit from that content are being subsidized by me at the cost of my right to freely copy. If they want that content let them fund it on their own, voluntarily, at their own expense, don't make me subsidize it by sacrificing my right to freely copy.

    15. Re:Why NOT bother? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 1

      True, rights holders expect to be paid for their content. However, you may have noticed that an e-Book generally costs far less than a good quality library bound book. (i ignore paperback books in this case, simply because a decent library will get decently bound books, so they last a long time and do not have to be replaced)

      Now, lets get to the examples. On amazon right now, a kindle copy of the latest NY times best seller (a John Grisham novel) costs 6.49$. The hardcover version costs 14.87$ this means a library can afford two copies to lend out digitally, or one physical copy. (assume for now that the cost of the kindles was factored into the construction of the library.)
      This is to say nothing about the thousands of public domain books. For example, a good library bound copy of 'The adventures of Huckleberry Fin' costs around 20$ on amazon. The kindle version is FREE. As are thousands of other books that belong in any good public library. allowing users to read on computers, and check out kindles opens up the door for a library to offer a vast amount of wonderful reading to the public at no cost, with as many copies available as can be asked for.
      As another poster noted, the area this library is being opened in is not a well off neighborhood, and internet access and personal computers are not prevalent in the area, meaning that, while *you* may be able to download and read these books at your leisure in your house, most of the residents in the area in question do not have the ability to do so.
      Basicly, in designing this library, they said "instead of building an expensive building strong enough to hold thousands of pounds of paper books, and buying thousands of books to fill it with, lets build a cheeper building to hold some computers, and buy a few hundred of kindles". The base kindle costs 69$, so for between the cost of 3 or 4 library quality books, you get 1 kindle, I've never seen a library that had fully 1/4th its stock checked out at once, so far fewer kindles than that are needed. A few hundred should suffice initially. Then, you are able to populate a large portion of your library with books that are literally free, and spend far less than normal physical item cost on the books that are not public domain. The net result is more books in the hands of readers, even if its a kindle.
      And as for the romance of a physical book may be required for some people, but the e-ink of a kindle is just fine for plenty more people, It seems to me that this library was built on the idea is simply to get people reading, where they were not before. Let them start reading, so they can discover the romance of physical books. (which is hugely secondary, compared to the intellectual benefits of reading).

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    16. Re:Why NOT bother? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Sure. That's why libraries have librarians and various tools for fixing books, such as tape.

    17. Re:Why NOT bother? by John+Bodin · · Score: 1

      They only, according to the webpage, accept government id's with that address or tax bills, no other item seems to be good enough for the New York Public Library.

      --
      John
    18. Re:Why NOT bother? by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      Dude, you really should take your meds.

    19. Re:Why NOT bother? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      while paper books actually do have some advantages...most libraries do not carry multiple copies of that book. A major advantage here is that every one of their readers can have the exact same book on it at the exact same time so 12 people in 12 households can all enjoy it at the same time.

      Except reality doesn't work that way. Those wacky rights-holders still expect to be paid for content. Whoda thunk it?

      Electronic libraries have been around for years. Other than the paper, they work pretty much the same. The library licenses the content and is allowed to lend out X copies of the titles they license. If X+8 people want to borrow the same title, the 8 go on a wait list just like they would for a paper book. And the libraries often only have partial collections. They may have 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7 of a series but not books 4 and 6. Why? Heck if I know but they do. Or sometimes they'll have the entire series but only 1 copy for each book so it can take forever to get them all in the correct order because book 3 has a wait list of 40 people.

      Spot on.

      But on top of that, my local library often has more than one copy of a dead tree book and can do an inter-library loan if the local branch doesn't have enough copies. But only 1 digital copy for the entire metro area.

      Overdrive would work a lot better if it didn't attempt the fiction that ebooks are just like ordinary books and licensed access to a publisher's catalog on a generic per-book basis rather than single copies from the catalog.

    20. Re:Why NOT bother? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Sure. That's why libraries have librarians and various tools for fixing books, such as tape.

      What I really hate is when I get a worn ebook and the bits fall out.

    21. Re:Why NOT bother? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Poverty has always been the norm for writers and musicians as well, for that matter. However, it's questionable whether digital media is actually going to make it worse. More than once it has been demonstrated that people will pay for content even when they can get it for free legally. Whether they will pay enough is uncertain, and it's very likely that the publishers and other middlemen will hurt, however.

      As for advertising, I know that some people get into a frothing rage over the mere suggestion, but a lot of us have no problems, and can even enjoy a good ad, well-placed and not over-done. The main thing is to keep the ads from intruding on the content itself.

    22. Re:Why NOT bother? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not, tape works for kindle too.

      They don't call it jesus tape for nothing.

    23. Re: Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem here is that copy protection privileges last way too long. The works should enter the public domain long before this becomes a problem.

    24. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that, unless the book is literally one of a kind and worth a fortune, they will simply buy a completely new copy and retire the busted-up version. Except that, if the book is literally one of a kind and worth a fortune, they wouldn't be lending it out anyway, they'd have it locked away in an airtight non-corrosive acid-free enclosure in a museum somewhere, and would be lending $5 paperbacks containing a copy of the content in the one of a kind priceless book.

      Tard.

    25. Re:Why NOT bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is against them getting paid.

      You're new to Slashdot, aren't you?

      In reality, there's quite a few people here who believe that "Writing a book or recording a symphony that will provide ME with hours of enjoyment is reward enough for those artists, they've got no right to a guaranteed income."

      While I agree with you that copyright as it exists today represents a problem of business models, there are LOTS of people who think that nobody should own rights to - or be paid for - anything they create.

      And I actually vehemently disagree with you that it is your right to freely copy anything you want without restriction. It is only your right to do so *if the terms of the sale grant you that right.* You have no inherent right to the fruits of someone else's labors - be it a book, a record, a movie, or cash, unless they consent to granting you rights to copy it. Any exchange that does not offer value for value, and is not mutually agreeable and to mutual benefit involves the creation of a slave class, sentenced to labor away producing things for your enjoyment. This is not the end state of a moral society.

    26. Re:Why NOT bother? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I see. That sucks big time too. I heard NY's library system is a good one too. You probably already tried, but maybe if you contact the right person high enough in the governing board of the library, you can find a way to work around it. Perhaps with a criminal background abstract or something, the police will have a real address on it, even if they send it to a PO Box as one of their favorite things is trying to keep records on people's addresses if they ever need to find them.

  15. huh? by BringsApples · · Score: 0

    Over the long-haul, more electricity is going to be used by these libraries than ordinary libraries, costing more per month than others. Money to pay IT professionals is another thing to consider, as well as the costs associated with e-readers needing to be replaced. Not to mention the fact that there's no benefit in having an electric library - oh wait, yeah... no shelves. Pffft.

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    1. Re:huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Increased energy use by the library will be far more than compensated by decreased energy use by patrons driving to/from the library --- a huge net win in the big picture (with the benefits spread to the public, even if library budgets go up). Saving just a little bit of driving (especially for dozens or hundreds of visitors a day) will offset far more energy use than a couple extra servers.

    2. Re:huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're trying to preach logic to slashtards. Nerds, programmers, and parodoxically, the most luddite internet population out there.

    3. Re:huh? by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      Increased energy use by the library will be far more than compensated by decreased energy use by patrons driving to/from the library

      This makes no sense. How in the hell do the people get the e-books (and return them), or use the computers? They have to go to the library, no? If not, then what's the point of building the library at all?

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    4. Re:huh? by icebike · · Score: 1

      Increased energy use by the library will be far more than compensated by decreased energy use by patrons driving to/from the library

      This makes no sense. How in the hell do the people get the e-books (and return them), or use the computers? They have to go to the library, no? If not, then what's the point of building the library at all?

      Don't confuse THIS library with a normal e-book lending library. They are lending devices with ebooks already on them.
      Its meant to serve people too dumb to use the internet or too poor to afford an e-reader of their own.

      Most ebook libraries exist in a server room hosted at some big provider somewhere, and people get to it via the web,
      and the total energy budget for fetching and reading and returning the ebook could be supplied by a couple of double A batteries.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:huh? by BringsApples · · Score: 1
      Ok, one of us is confused, probably me. But here's the first line from TFA:

      Texas has seen the future of the public library, and it looks a lot like an Apple Store: Rows of glossy iMacs beckon. iPads mounted on a tangerine-colored bar invite readers. And hundreds of other tablets stand ready for checkout to anyone with a borrowing card.

      So again, I ask the question: If the people don't have to go to the library to get the $books, then why build the library at all? I'm seriously not trolling here, it just seems illogical as stated. Now, if it's really just a ploy by Apple to get everyone to use their product, then that I can understand (not that it makes sense).

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    6. Re:huh? by icebike · · Score: 1

      Because, as I stated, these people (in that texas town) mostly can't afford their own devices or internet connections.

      They go and borrow a device pre-loaded with the ebook they want, or read the ebooks (and web sites) at the library.
      At this library they do have to go to the library.

      At a normal e-book lender, you need never go.

      The whole thread here on Slash dot is about what a dumb idea this is. The $2.3 million spent on this library could have
      bought e-readers for a large percentage of the populace, easily one per household, and put free wifi on every major street corner.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    7. Re:huh? by Ly4 · · Score: 1

      The $2.3 million spent on this library could have
      bought e-readers for a large percentage of the populace, easily one per household, and put free wifi on every major street corner.

      Doubt it. Bexar County has 1.7 million people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bexar_County,_Texas

    8. Re:huh? by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      Libraries are for cities. I've never heard of a county library. I think he has a good point. As I take it, he's pointing out the fact that libraries are meant for spreading information, and this library is spreading technology. The two are oh so different - in the same way that paper and books are different.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    9. Re:huh? by Ly4 · · Score: 1

      Turns out, this library is well within the city - it just happens to be funded by the county government (which isn't unheard of, although it was probably done for political reasons here).

      I would argue that wi-fi and e-readers are not a complete replacement for a physical library location. Among other things, the building has useful services like desktop computers, meeting spaces, computer classes, and a place to pick up and learn about those e-readers.

    10. Re:huh? by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      ...probably done for political reasons here

      It's all another shot from Apple to integrate it's product into public society. Maybe Apple provided money. I know they're getting a lot of publicity for doing this stuff lately, just like how they're giving their technology to schools for use in and out of classrooms. At least it's something that no other company has ever dared (if my assumption is correct).

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    11. Re:huh? by Ly4 · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen anything that lists any Apple funding, although some articles mention Rackspace.

      The primary political tension I was referring to was the continual battle between the county government and the city government here. The city has a very large (and pretty good) library system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Public_Library); they could have taken on this site as well. But it was probably easier to go bookless by not being part of the SAPL system (and Nelson Wolff, a county guy, couldn't get any credit if SA did it).

    12. Re:huh? by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      Apple hardware is all they use. More than likely Apple contributed, even if it's just free hardware (I'm talking completely out of my arse here - "slashtalk", yo - but it makes sense to me ;). Apple seems to be on the smarter side of getting their product out there. They've probably admitted that advertizing is crap, and it's a simple matter of getting people used to their product, and not a matter of trying to tame an audience. I run Linux :)

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
  16. Another brick in the fag rewrite of knowledge... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    “Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”
      George Orwell, 1984

  17. What good will it do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What good will it do? You obviously can't read.

  18. deprecating the american library. by nimbius · · Score: 1

    this if anything is 'embrace extend extinguish' on the part of private industry. According to policy, e-books get a 14 day maximum checkout and devices in the library have a 60 minute time limit. you can check out a maximum of 5 e-books, with 1 renewal only per item.
    My library on the other hand permits me to check out 50 real books at a time, with a 31 day checkout time. I can renew my checkouts 3 times and if i accidentally lose or damage a book, the replacement cost is significantly less expensive than a new $200 e-reader. I also get to read a real book as long as I goddamn well want to in the library and unlike the e-reader once ive checked out a book, my library cant kick in my door and steal the book back if its determined im for some reason not permitted to read the book after the fact. The readers contents one presumes are just as dynamic as if id purchased one from amazon.

    I dont need to charge my library books either..

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  19. Subscriptions that don't cover remote access by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    If I wanted to read the Internet, I could stay home.

    And lose access to the paywalled resources to which your library subscribes for use within its facilities.

    1. Re:Subscriptions that don't cover remote access by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > And lose access to the paywalled resources to which your library subscribes for use within its facilities.'

      Which is exactly WHAT for a municipal library?

      This isn't some college library and is likely far less interesting in any way you could mention.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Subscriptions that don't cover remote access by dasunt · · Score: 2

      Which is exactly WHAT for a municipal library?

      At my library, it's too numerous to list them all.

      If you're looking for access to historical records, or modern journals, research, etc, you should check out your local library's digital content.

    3. Re:Subscriptions that don't cover remote access by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      And lose access to the paywalled resources to which your library subscribes for use within its facilities.

      You want me to get in my car, drive across town, and walk into a particular building, to use a computer, to get to something on the Internet?

      Riiiiight.</TheCos>

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:Subscriptions that don't cover remote access by tepples · · Score: 1

      If that's too inconvenient for you, perhaps you could buy an individual subscription.

  20. Only one county's property tax base by tepples · · Score: 1

    That works well for pre-1923 works but not for anything newer because publishers demand to derive revenue from patrons' use of the works. For example, a publisher might sell a 26-pack of two-week rentals for a particular e-book to a county library, and the county library doesn't want to "waste" these rentals on people who happen not to live within the area that pays property tax to the county that funds the library.

    1. Re:Only one county's property tax base by icebike · · Score: 1

      Your link is a dated article. At least two years old. It doesn't even realize that the kindle is supported by Overdrive.

      Counties are forming partnerships with adjacent counties to expand their collections. (I can borrow for four different county libraries, and two university libraries, all via my single county library card).

      The publishers and Overdrive are coming around, making more and more of their catalog available in ebook form. The bitchslap they got from the DOJ and the slam dunk that Google scored have pretty much broken their will to get into abusive relationships with libraries.

      When HarperCollins tried to limit lending to 26 lends, Overdrive dropped the publisher from their general catelog.
      HC is by far the most restrictive.
      The problem is that Counties don't have the clout to sue the publishers.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Only one county's property tax base by tepples · · Score: 1

      When HarperCollins tried to limit lending to 26 lends, Overdrive dropped the publisher from their general catelog.

      According to the article you linked, Penguin hasn't been working with OverDrive in the first place. Without Penguin and without HC, what does that leave?

    3. Re:Only one county's property tax base by icebike · · Score: 1

      According to the article you linked, Penguin hasn't been working with OverDrive in the first place. Without Penguin and without HC, what does that leave?

      Plenty. HC and Penguin do not the book world define.

      However, the article I linked to was from March, and Penguin was coming around at that time.
      They have seen the light, and as of September they are back on Overdrive.

      They have further to go. But they've turned their head in the right direction. The loss of sales was becoming painful.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Only one county's property tax base by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      HC unfortunately has a lock on some of my favorite authors. Every time I buy a book from someone like Terry Pratchett, I stop and think if I really want to support those bastards (HC, not Terry). Conversely, the lendable and DRM-free books are often no-brainer buys. Hopefully, as contracts expire, wise authors will find more reasonable publishers.

      I know I did check out a Pratchett ebook from the library not long ago, so it Overdrive dropped them, it must have been recent.

    5. Re:Only one county's property tax base by icebike · · Score: 1

      No, HC blinked and got back in Overdrive's catalog in September.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  21. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've not been since 1995 "the year I got internet"

  22. Both the reader and the copyright licenses by tepples · · Score: 1

    Ebook readers are available for as little as 49€ in Europe. That's not so much more than a good, ordinary book (well, lets say two or three books). The average reader would borrow two or three books, but will now carry only one device

    But now the library has to pay both the maker of reader devices and the publishers of post-1922 books (or in your case, books with at least one author who died post-1943).

    1. Re:Both the reader and the copyright licenses by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Talk to a librarian about the cost of replacing popular dead tree books. It's significant. Will it be more or less than e readers? Hard to know. But some libraries spend upwards of 10% of their budget replacing books (number obtained from a conversation with a local librarian, YMMV).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Both the reader and the copyright licenses by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      Talk to a librarian about the cost of replacing popular dead tree books. It's significant. Will it be more or less than e readers?

      I check out popular books that were purchased in the 1970 and 80's at my library all the time. Sure, many of the trashy popular fiction titles will need to be replaced during the period of their limited popularity, but a quality made book will last many years in a public library.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    3. Re:Both the reader and the copyright licenses by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      There's an unfortunate factor that paper nostalgites are not taking into account: books bought by your library are no longer forever, even when they don't get checked out enough times to wear out. Shelf space costs money just as it does in a store, and so my local library deaccessions a load of books yearly to make room for more. If all books were files on servers, there would be mo need to destroy the past (and it's all backed up at the NSA!)

    4. Re:Both the reader and the copyright licenses by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      It's going to cost way more to replace the e-readers than it does to fix/replace books. For one thing, repairing an e-reader is almost impossible and, even when it can be done, costs about half as much, or more, as buying a new one. Books, however, can be rebound and repaired to a decent extent before they need replacement. E-readers are also way more fragile than books. Show me even one e-reader that can be dropped from 5 feet, pushed off a desk, thrown into a backpack, dropped again, have a stack of junk (pencils, other books, water bottles, etc.) dropped onto it without breaking and I'll eat my hat. And don't forget the chargers for these things. The cords will break and the chargers will go missing like crazy.

      The only reason this idea might work is because Texas now sees it fit to classify failure to return a library book or e-reader as a crime! I'm sure that throwing people in jail for failing to return library books will be a great help to society.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    5. Re:Both the reader and the copyright licenses by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      There's an unfortunate factor that paper nostalgites are not taking into account: books bought by your library are no longer forever, even when they don't get checked out enough times to wear out. Shelf space costs money just as it does in a store, and so my local library deaccessions a load of books yearly to make room for more.

      Many of the books I check out are not shelved at my branch. Many are in a central "stack". But when I reserve them, either in person or on line, they show up the next day. And I get my so-called "dead tree" book.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    6. Re:Both the reader and the copyright licenses by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      There's an unfortunate factor that paper nostalgites are not taking into account: books bought by your library are no longer forever, even when they don't get checked out enough times to wear out. Shelf space costs money just as it does in a store, and so my local library deaccessions a load of books yearly to make room for more. If all books were files on servers, there would be mo need to destroy the past (and it's all backed up at the NSA!)

      Not true. The NSA stores metadata. They know who's checking out the books, but don't store the books themselves.

  23. InfoTrac by tepples · · Score: 2

    Which is exactly WHAT for a municipal library?

    In the early 1990s, students at my middle school were required to make a speech about a controversial topic based on research. A common method for this was to use the "InfoTrac" system on the catalog terminals to select, preview, and print articles. Another was the "SirS" binders.

    1. Re:InfoTrac by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      My local library (rural Alaska) has Science Citation Index, Lexus / Nexus and subscriptions to a number of 'high impact' science journals. Is it the University of Washington? Nope. But if offers some access to citizens who happen not to be adjunct professors or whatever.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:InfoTrac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to nitpick, but it is LexisNexis - not high-end cars + google phones.

    3. Re:InfoTrac by nbauman · · Score: 1

      My local library (rural Alaska) has Science Citation Index, Lexus / Nexus and subscriptions to a number of 'high impact' science journals. Is it the University of Washington? Nope. But if offers some access to citizens who happen not to be adjunct professors or whatever.

      That's funny. I wanted to look up Science Citation Index at my local library -- the New York Public Library science and business collection. They didn't have it. They dropped it because it was too expensive.

      One of the librarians told me that they couldn't get online editions of some of the major science journals, because the journals charged libraries according to the number of their users.

      The New England Journal of Medicine would have charged them a fee for the online edition based on the assumption that the number of their users was the entire population of Manhattan. So they didn't get it. (Even though the NEJM has important material only online.)

      I'm surprised that you get Lexis/Nexis. For a long time, one of the big complaints was that Lexis wouldn't give subscriptions to public libraries at all. They figured that if a lawyer could use Lexis in the public library, he wouldn't have to subscribe. That's despite the fact that basically all of Lexis was public documents, which they got from judges and courthouses under special deals. They may have changed their policy. I'll have to check.

      The New York Public Library did get some subscriptions to the online science journals, but they don't have the ones I need when I look up citations.

      The digital library would be better than the paper library (in most ways) if they replaced everything with its digital version. But they don't. Some of the digital versions are exorbitantly more expensive. So many collections are actually smaller. When I go to the library, I can't find standard reference books that I used to use in the paper days. In some ways I'm worse off.

  24. Re:the Internet is a better source? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Okay, time to bring up a new topic.

    I completely disagree that the internet is a "better source". It's a stunning *complementary source*. But books (medium, to be discussed later) are the exclusive domain of a ton of "long form content" with certain types of structure that don't really exist per se in the internet.

    The big elephant in the room I still don't see really taken seriously is ... Print On Demand.

    Clearly if someone has the digital file en masse for these kinds of e-libraries, then it's "not hard" to POD it. Then people could get their cumulative favorite 100 "tree books", but the library doesn't have to stock the massive 30,000 item collection with Long Tail problems.

    POD is here. *Five years ago* the Hardvard book store had a prototype (cover art rights issues, sure) that produced books as solid as anything done by the pros "in about an hour".

    But I'm amazed that no one is constructively talking about POD in these "future of books" discussions, even at the risk on the store side of the big chains folding. (ProTip - why would I even order from amazon if I could get my copy in my hand at lunch?)

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  25. HarperCollins imposes a 26-loan cap by tepples · · Score: 1

    Publishers have started to configure digital restrictions management for e-books to "wear out" after being lent 26 times. See articles on About, BoingBoing, and The Digital Shift.

  26. Texans can read? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not the ones I have known.

    1. Re:Texans can read? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Yes. But only one book.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  27. If you want to simplify it further by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The bookless libraries could also be merged with various homeless shelters within local communities. Libraries these days are largely patronized by homeless bums who want to watch porn on the internet.

  28. Re:the Internet is a better source? by ranton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The big elephant in the room I still don't see really taken seriously is ... Print On Demand.

    Once you have standardized page size and other challenges inherent with POD, you might as well just be downloading an e-book. Cost may be an issue for e-readers today, but you already can get some pretty damn cheap e-readers if you are willing to buy something other than the big name brands. So if you are talking about the future of books, not just trends over the next 5-10 years, it is most likely going to be incredibly cheap color e-ink tablets that most books are read from.

    No one knows the future for sure, so perhaps POD will have its place, but I find it doubtful.

    I completely disagree that the internet is a "better source". It's a stunning *complementary source*. But books (medium, to be discussed later) are the exclusive domain of a ton of "long form content" with certain types of structure that don't really exist per se in the internet.

    I didn't mean to say that the internet is a better source for all information. My rationalle for calling it a better source was simply that it is a better source for most of the information people need. I am easily in the top 5% of physical book purchasers for personal consumption in the developed world (probably top 1%), but even I realize that most of the time I need to learn something I do not turn to books (either physical or e-books). They are for highly specialized content and for reference information that has not yet been posted online (which is more and more rare as the years go on). And for novels, if you are into that kind of thing, but those transition to e-books even better than the non-fiction books I read.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  29. Falls short in one critical public library job: by hey! · · Score: 2

    Preservation of information for future generations, and conversely providing information generated past generations to the present.

    I can walk into my nice, but hardly cutting edge public library and look up my hometown paper's front page for December 8, 1941 and read about the reaction to the Pearl Harbor attack. I can look for science fiction books published in the 1950s by publishers that have gone out of business. I can find strange, but interesting books that have never been digitized and are very hard to find, like a military history of the bicycle written in the 1960s.

    If I go to a *world class* library, like the main branch of the Boston Public Library, I can examine rare manucripts, maps and sheet music, although they have been making an effort to digitize that stuff. If I needed a service manual for a fifty year-old TV set, this is the first place I'd look.

    I can understand going primarily ebook for a community that can't afford a real library, but even such a library needs stacks where it preserves books of local interest for future generations. Given that they've given up physical books and all the associated expenses, 10,000 books seems like an awfully thin collection to me.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Falls short in one critical public library job: by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      The better solution is actually to digitize all that stuff. Paper is absolutely terrible for archiving information. You have to be in close physical proximity to read it, only one person can see it at a time, it's incredibly flammable, it wears out (there's a reason that you can't physically touch most old books and papers), etc.

      Paper archives are of interest only for the novelty of seeing the actual piece of paper. The US Constitution is a great example. Even if the thing were destroyed we'd still have a constitution, it wouldn't suddenly cease to be law just because it was destroyed. Visiting the national archives is only good if you want the novelty of seeing the first copy ever made. Sure, It's interesting, but it's entirely worthless if you actually want to read the document. To see the constitution you have to show up during visiting hours and try to read illegible handwriting through 3 inches of bulletproof glass under incredibly dim light. It's far more effective if you just pull up a copy on the internet.

      This goes for libraries everywhere. It would be far more useful if we just digitized all of this stuff. It's not hard. There are many commercial devices that are capable of digitizing books, maps, charts, and all manner of written material. The ONLY obstacle to this is the fuckwits responsible for turning copyright law into the clusterfuck that it is today. The only reason that books aren't digitized is because someone will sue whoever is doing the digitizing. It doesn't matter if the book is out of print and isn't sold anymore, whoever owns the copyright just wants to make a quick buck by suing someone else.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    2. Re:Falls short in one critical public library job: by hey! · · Score: 1

      The better solution is actually to digitize all that stuff. Paper is absolutely terrible for archiving information.

      Over what timescale? Digital has proven even *worse* for archiving information more than a couple decades old.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  30. FYI: Bear, not Bexar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bexar county is pronounced "Bear" county. Didn't want anybody to sound ignorant.

    1. Re:FYI: Bear, not Bexar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess the submitter had "bear country" in mind, and that's why he didn't know it was a county (no r).

  31. the international one is called by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pirate Bay, you can check out and leave :)

  32. Good Idea on Paper, Horrid Execution by rueger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Like most libraries, our local has embraced all manner of e-technology. Although the vast majority of users still prefer 'real books," they also offer e-books, e-reader loans, music downloads, and audiobook downloads, as well as access to a large group of databases.

    As an end user I'd call most of this a disaster. Books are simple - you sign it out, take it home, and renew it until you're done reading it. If someone else needs the book they can place a hold, and you can't renew it any more. If you need a book not on the shelf you can place a hold.

    I had been using them for audiobooks to listen to in the car on my Android phone. This worked great except that pretty much the only company servicing Canadian libraries is Overdrive, and their software is bar none the worst that I've encountered.

    Still, it was just usable enough that despite the really poor selection of audiobooks, the limited number of "copies available", the lack of any way to renew books, and the really, really, really horrid interface on either PC or phone, I could live with it.

    This year Overdrive updated their software, with a new added "feature": you could no longer limit downloads to WIFI. Or even pause a download in progress. As a consequence one ill-timed audiobook download consumed my entire month's cel phone data cap in less than a day.

    I deleted it, and let my library know that I was using Pirate Bay from here on - faster, easier, better selection, and no chance of getting hammered with data overage charges.

    Beyond that it's pretty well known that publishers define an e-book as only being downloadable for a few dozen times - alleging that this replicates the physical life of an actual book. It's an obvious lie, and ignores the longstanding practices of rebinding and repairing books - something that libraries have done for many decades.

    Our library has a pretty remarkable section of CDs on loan, and actually has surprised me many times with the stuff that they have on the shelves. The downloadable music offering Freegal lets you grab a grand total of THREE songs per month. DRM free, but kind of useless.

    At the end of the day I wish that our library would go back to lending physical artifacts - the restraints on them by the publishers makes any attempt to provide e-content pretty much impossible.

    1. Re:Good Idea on Paper, Horrid Execution by fermion · · Score: 1
      The fallacy here, is that a library is solely a repository of books. At it's basis, a library can be considered to be a curated collection of books. As a library cannot hold all books, books must be squired and disposed of regularly to maximize the usefulness to the audience.

      However, in opposition to popular belief, a library serves a purpose beyond recreation and toilets for people who may not have access otherwise. It is the basis of our educational system. When I was a kid, and did not have access to basics, I would go to the library, do research, pay to rent a typewriter, make a copy. Fifteen years ago when I was changing careers I would go to the library, consult with the librarians, read the journals, and educate myself.

      For librarians who just want to curate books the book less library is an big problem. But for the library who wants to be at the basis of provided an education to the people, this is a wonderful move. For instance, many years ago to research a paper I had to go to indexes which were stored in hundred of linear feet of table space. I had to look up the topic for each year, look up the journals, find the journal, and if they were not there use ILL. None of this had to with educating myself. It was a skill, a now useless skill, though at the time I would monetize the skill for beer money.

      A useless skill because Dialog came around and for a dollar I could do all that research online. Then it became free at the library and all that space taken by paper indexes were now taken by computers. Then the journals themselves became available electronically and the stack for the journals were taken over by computers. No the journals are online and you don't even have to go to the library.

      And this the world that everyone thinks is do horrible. Where librarians can focus on assisting patrons to become more educated. Of course most of the world does not know how to use a library, or even where their library is. To be honest, I miss the going to the library looking through paper books, miles of indices, old journals. I discovered many wonderful treats by backtracking references. But I appreciate that I can now just pull up an article on my iPad and read it, rather than spending an hour trying to get it.

      Of course I understand the difficulty with the tech for popular books. I also tried Overdrive and gave up. This is teething problem that is going to have to be solved. My hope is that publishers will move to a very cheap per checkout fee rather than an acquisition fee. Patrons that check out books but don't read them can be throttled to the number of books that can be checked out at at time.That there will be a system where any patron can check out any book that is in a national or even international directory.

      Also understand that handling of paper books is very expensive.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  33. No, it's an NSA branch library. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No books, only computers and e-readers. Extremely convenient. For everyone.

  34. A legit question by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is there a way to determine that the ebook has not been altered?

    I can think of several places where groups of people would like to control the information, and many who would do it if they could

    Many on the Religious right would like to either scrub or reword evolutionary and or biological references. Physics and astronomy texts are a little suspect also.

    Many on the industrial right would want to alter, remove references research in Greenhouse gas

    Many on the left might like to remove non-PC texts

    No doubt many groups would find objectionable stuff they would like to change. Any of these groups might like to alter or remove text, and if public bookburning events are any indication, it's pretty pointless to argue that they wouldn't.

    Some sort of trusted authority with a massive hashtag listing?

    Although I would really enjoy the rewritten stories about Jesus and the founding fathers raising the flag on Iwo Jima, and working tirelessly to end slavery.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:A legit question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The only way that this can be done is have books in print. Without physical access, it will be extremely difficult to alter that. With copies on eBook servers, this can be easy, no matter how good the cryptography present is.

      There are a few books where a change will be easily detected. A modification to the Koran will instantly get noticed. However, a change in an obscure book that covered a fairly esoteric topic in World War 1 might be easily changed without anyone ever noticing.

      This is unlikely, but in the world of eBooks, how tough would it be to make a backdated history book about some event that never happened, then change a few sentences in mainstream books to refer to that "unassuming" historical event, which never happened?

      History has a lot of lessons... lessons that a lot of groups and interests want covered up. China would love to erase from history how it came to own Tibet for example.

      I like the idea of cryptographically signing books (with the signatures stored separately), and printing the whole mess out, then storing separate copies in multiple secure locations. Again, not 100%, but it would keep history from being changed just because one eBook provider was sloppy on its security.

    2. Re:A legit question by smhsmh · · Score: 1

      Your idea of cryptographically signing books is an extremely worthy one. The details may be tricky to work out (a recent /. item suggests that the NSA is planning to break all cryptography for all time with quantum computing) but we should all keep the idea in mind against the time it becomes necessary to protect our history and knowledge from Big Brother. And it will become necessary...

      BTW, my family dog has been running a small paperless library in the back yard for about a decade. No E-readers -- all the items are scratch-and-sniff.

  35. Fahrenheit 451 Opening Sequence by cmholm · · Score: 1

    Moments after the enabling regulations for the Banning Of Other Known Sources of Sufficiently Unverified Codexes ("BOOKS SUC") Act of 2051 are published, e-book readers across the nation delete all content excepting certain approved technical references. Subsequently, the long work of weeding out the hoarded dead tree editions begins.

    --
    Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.
  36. MP3.com... by mlts · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure this isn't done is due to the example the RIAA made of MP3.com. MP3.com was doing a decent business, but then they offered downloading/streaming if a user put in a CD and their software verified it.

    They were utterly destroyed by the RIAA in short order.

    I don't think any other companies want to try to dip their toes into that water after that.

  37. Re:the Internet is a better source? by icebike · · Score: 1

    But I'm amazed that no one is constructively talking about POD in these "future of books" discussions, even at the risk on the store side of the big chains folding. (ProTip - why would I even order from amazon if I could get my copy in my hand at lunch?)

    The reason is that most people don't want to OWN dead tree books anymore. Too big. Too heavy. Too much to move. Most people read it once and done.
    And the publishers aren't going to give POD away for anything less than a paperback price.

    POD works for technical books, where you need to access it randomly, and away from a computer.

    Other than that, nobody wants it. E-books are easier.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  38. Re:the Internet is a better source? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    And the publishers aren't going to give POD away for anything less than a paperback price.

    Yeah, the publishers are the problem, protecting their obsolete business models via government monopolies. Without those, we'd already have a per-unit fee for content that reflects the true costs of distribution (and readership would be way up, "promoting the progress").

    The potential is huge, but in the meantime I rarely pay more than $5 for a book (Amazon Marketplace), DRM free.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  39. Re:the Internet is a better source? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    Cost may be an issue for e-readers today, but you already can get some pretty damn cheap e-readers if you are willing to buy something other than the big name brands.

    Even with name brands, Amazon's cheapest Kindle is $69 which is pretty affordable. That comes "with special offers" but in my experience the ads are completely unobtrusive. (They appear when the device is off - in which case you most likely have it in a carrying case - and when browsing through your book listing - which is easily ignored. No ads appear while you read books.)

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  40. Re:the Internet is a better source? by icebike · · Score: 1

    The cost of distribution is not a fair price for a book.

    Let me know when you are willing to work for the price of transpiration alone.
    I'll swing buy and pick you up, and you can dig me a swimming pool out back for free.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  41. Re:the Internet is a better source? by icebike · · Score: 1

    Doh! Transportation.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  42. Choice of Product by Sigvulcanas · · Score: 2

    They spent $2.3 million on a public library, and they fill it with Apple? This is absurd, everyone and their brother will be using them and they'll be locked down anyways. They can buy equivelent Windows machines for half the cost and they'll work just as well if not better. For eBook readers why not Kindle? A Kindle costs $199 which is half as much as the cheapest Apple tablets. Besides this would have given Amazon a chance to step up and become a champion on education. It really is a waste of tax payer money to purchase Apple products for continuous public use.

  43. Re:the Internet is a better source? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    We have a nice discussion going, but I think you missed both of my points.

    "Once you have standardized page size and other challenges inherent with POD, you might as well just be downloading an e-book. Cost may be an issue for e-readers today, but you already can get some pretty damn cheap e-readers if you are willing to buy something other than the big name brands. So if you are talking about the future of books, not just trends over the next 5-10 years, it is most likely going to be incredibly cheap color e-ink tablets that most books are read from."

    I think you mixed up the nouns of who is doing what.
    A. Harvard Book Store (in discussion with the Rights Holders) has this same big databank of the digital files. But instead of a e-reader file, it's a POD machine file.

    B. Me. *I* am not the one standardizing page files! And there are no challenges! Here, one min, lemme go to my shelf with the prototype books. I have here:

    "The outlines of Mahayana Buddhism" 7x4.5 inches, 410 pages.

    and "An Introduction to Mahayana Buddhism". 8.5 X 5.5 inches, 230 pages.

    Each cost about $5. I get all that old time feel of having a physical reference, including turning down page corners and making pencil notes. And I just walked in, paid the cashier, and walked out with them an hour later. So no problems for me at all!

    "They are for highly specialized content and for reference information that has not yet been posted online (which is more and more rare as the years go on)." All non-fiction content is highly specialized! A good non-fiction author too his/her time and created the info flow to demonstrate a larger premise. Not a single one of the 1000 ish books in my library can be duplicated *in the same order* online! Sure, with exhaustive work page by page you can begin to do it, but ... that's the point of a book!

    The whole point of POD is ... on demand. You can bulk buy the 1000 books in digital format, then for the few you want in that old time format, you'd go down to your properly equipped store (theoretically *any* store!) and get your physical copy.

    The tech has been here for half a decade. A little bit of sunk cost for the machine. But paper wise it might be as low as $2 a copy in raw costs. But the publishers are fighting it.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  44. It's COUNTY, not country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bexar county in seated in San Antonio. The library is in the far southern part of the city.

  45. Re:the Internet is a better source? by deconfliction · · Score: 2

    Once you have standardized page size and other challenges inherent with POD, you might as well just be downloading an e-book.

    I know I am in a very small 'paranoid' minority on this one but- POD gets you the ability to read the book, without having a psychological profile of you developed based on the relative times spent on each page. A profile that can and will be sold to advertisers (if only to fund the library building and license costs) . A profile that can and will be stored forever by the NSA so that should they ever find a reason to 'target' that 'collected data' it is there, and able to either help them understand and/or misportray your personality.

  46. ooolldddd!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This news is soooo september 2013....

  47. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Papyrus scripture only?

  48. Children's books and other large format books by hrvatska · · Score: 2

    If the only users of libraries were people who only read text, I would be OK with an all e-reader library. However, I've noticed that my local library's children section is well used, and a lot of those users are early readers and parents of early readers who take out books where the illustrations matter as much as the words. And many of those books are large format that don't do well in a smaller format. It seems like a library going to an all e-reader format is abandoning an awful lot of the books for early readers.

  49. Re:the Internet is a better source? by bitingduck · · Score: 1

    Once you have standardized page size and other challenges inherent with POD, you might as well just be downloading an e-book. Cost may be an issue for e-readers today, but you already can get some pretty damn cheap e-readers if you are willing to buy something other than the big name brands. So if you are talking about the future of books, not just trends over the next 5-10 years, it is most likely going to be incredibly cheap color e-ink tablets that most books are read from.

    No one knows the future for sure, so perhaps POD will have its place, but I find it doubtful.

    Most POD systems are capable of producing all standard sizes up to 8.5x11 as a normal part of the process. It's on the order of a penny per page, plus a little under a buck for the cover, depending on who does your POD. A good deal of backlist titles are produced via POD in order to avoid large print runs while still keeping titles in print. Commercial POD is actually at a point where it's cheaper to print and ship a galley of a book to use for editing or review than it is to print it as a "manuscript" with a desktop laser printer.

  50. Re:the Internet is a better source? by ranton · · Score: 1

    Once you have standardized page size and other challenges inherent with POD

    I think you mixed up the nouns of who is doing what.
    A. Harvard Book Store (in discussion with the Rights Holders) has this same big databank of the digital files. But instead of a e-reader file, it's a POD machine file.
    B. Me. *I* am not the one standardizing page files! And there are no challenges! Here, one min, lemme go to my shelf with the prototype books. I have here:

    I wasn't too clear (since another poster misinterpreted me in the same way), but when I talked about standardizing the books I meant that the provider had to do it, not the consumer. My point was that once the provider did that, the book is just as ready to be an e-book as it is a POD. And when you compare the pros/cons of these two formats, I personally think that e-books win out big. I think that POD is a great idea, I simply think that e-books are making the idea irrelevant. There are still some hurdles, such as people still preferring paper over an e-ink screen, but advances in technology and simply the changing of generations will take care of that.

    They are for highly specialized content and for reference information that has not yet been posted online (which is more and more rare as the years go on).

    All non-fiction content is highly specialized! A good non-fiction author too his/her time and created the info flow to demonstrate a larger premise. Not a single one of the 1000 ish books in my library can be duplicated *in the same order* online! Sure, with exhaustive work page by page you can begin to do it, but ... that's the point of a book!

    That was all completely true up until a few years ago. If I wanted to learn statistics just five years ago, I would want to read a Statistics textbook first and only enhance my learning with online sites. But today I am going to sign up for a MOOC or watch Youtube videos. This is a very new thing for me, and it is a big transition because I still have about 300 books in my office that I rarely read anymore (every other month my wife tries to get me to donate most of them). I needed to learn some basic compiler skills (mostly scanning and parsing) for a personal project, and immediately bought a book on the subject out of habit. But I have barely looked at it at all, since I was able to learn far more from a MOOC and Google searching.

    Just looking at how much change there has been in just the past few years, I have little doubt that the highly specialized information that still makes me buy books today will be in better online formats in the near future. So if we are talking about the next 5-10 years, I see books being even less important when compared to online videos and tutorials. These will be carefully created by an author to flow and demonstrate a larger premise, but the format won't be a book.

    This is all obviously just my opinion.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  51. Re:the Internet is a better source? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    Cost may be an issue for e-readers today, but you already can get some pretty damn cheap e-readers if you are willing to buy something other than the big name brands. So if you are talking about the future of books, not just trends over the next 5-10 years, it is most likely going to be incredibly cheap color e-ink tablets that most books are read from.

    No one knows the future for sure, so perhaps POD will have its place, but I find it doubtful.

    I don't, unless we finally get ereaders that are literally indistinguishable from paper books. There are just times that I want to read a book, not hold an ereader.

  52. Re:the Internet is a better source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never connect the wi-fi. Done.

  53. Re:the Internet is a better source? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

    In some old-time Science Fiction stories you'd see POD-like activity, but the documents (usually newspapers) were printed on media that would self-destruct after a time. Doing POD on stock paper for a lending library would kind of defeat the idea of a lending library. Might as well just buy the book.

    I can do POD at home, thanks to a decently-fast laser printer and various binding tools I've acquired. Not as good as a dedicated POD setup - can't do folio binding or fancy covers, but enough for the latest 450-page technical spec document. I can see myself going to a commercial facility if I have something really special I want the full treatment for.

    I don't do POD as often since I got an e-reader, but sometimes it's useful.

  54. Re:the Internet is a better source? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

    Once you have standardized page size and other challenges inherent with POD, you might as well just be downloading an e-book.

    I know I am in a very small 'paranoid' minority on this one but- POD gets you the ability to read the book, without having a psychological profile of you developed based on the relative times spent on each page. A profile that can and will be sold to advertisers (if only to fund the library building and license costs) . A profile that can and will be stored forever by the NSA so that should they ever find a reason to 'target' that 'collected data' it is there, and able to either help them understand and/or misportray your personality.

    The minority may be larger than you think.

    More than one author has written about books (usually grimoires) where "while you read the book, the book reads you". No longer is this just amusing fiction.

    So far, I endure it on ebooks (although I reserve the right to read them in airplane mode to minimize the chatter). But one of the vendors I have history with publishes a monthly technical magazine that basically can't be read at all without an Internet connection. Even as a "downloaded" PDF.

    So I don't. They're not nearly as essential to me as they'd like to think they are. And at that rate, they never will be.

  55. Remember to stab a knife into anyone promulgating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If everything is online and in electronic form, then everything can be censured instantaneously whenever it suits their whim:

    1. Certain books wont be made available to you but only to "authorized readers". Think of books on chemistry and physics that could potentially teach you how to make explosives.
    2. Other books could be censured completely.. think of the works of John Norman and the wonderful Gor series making him one of the most hated authors in feminism.
    3. Most books can be instantly rewritten to contain whatever truths are expedient at any moment. Think of Orwell's 1984 and the re-editing of newspapers and other media.

    THAT's why you dont want online books and also why you don't want "AGENDA21", for these are exactly the people who have these things in mind.

  56. Re:the Internet is a better source? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

    But I'm amazed that no one is constructively talking about POD in these "future of books" discussions, even at the risk on the store side of the big chains folding. (ProTip - why would I even order from amazon if I could get my copy in my hand at lunch?)

    e-readers have made the entire POD market obsolete. (Mostly obsolete-- there's still "vanity press"-like operations, but they've always been small-beans.) Why would I print a book on demand when I could have it on my Kindle faster and easier? Oh, and cheaper, too, once you have a dozen or more books being printed.

  57. those damn high tech yuppies by recharged95 · · Score: 1

    Great, now all we need are the robots... and hipster music and I'll be the 1st to say now get off my lawn!.

  58. Re:the Internet is a better source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But books (medium, to be discussed later) are the exclusive domain of a ton of "long form content" with certain types of structure that don't really exist per se in the internet. The big elephant in the room I still don't see really taken seriously is ... Print On Demand.

    Cognitive discord, oh my! Just because something is printed doesn't suddenly make it better. Any POD book can be view digitally too. It never needs to see paper to become "long form content".

  59. Are you sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not just the first bookless public library? This is Texas.

  60. Bibliophiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't help but notice the similarity between the people who hate e-readers and must have the physical book, and the audiophiles who hate digital music and must listen to vinyl while they peruse the cover and liner notes.

  61. Books I like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I like books with lots of pictures" - W.