Ecuadorian Navy Rescues Bezos After Kidney Stone Attack

theodp writes "While vacationing aboard a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, where the State Department warns the quality of medical facilities and services are 'generally well below U.S. standards', Gawker reports that Jeff Bezos was rescued by the Ecuadorian Navy so he could receive treatment for a kidney stone attack on New Year's Day. The Ecuadorian Navy confirmed Bezos' rescue, which involved taking Bezos by Navy helicopter from Academy Bay in Santa Cruz Island to his private jet stationed on Baltra Island."

Comments

Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the US had the worst medical system in the world. Whats this? A Socialist country (actually half of the politicians in Ecuador are communists) has worse medical treatment? That just doesn't seem right. State run medical facilities are ALWAYS better, or so I was told by the NYT.

LOL. I love these stories where reality just smacks the left in the face.

Re:Wait What?

[ToddInSF]

Nobody of any consequence is interested in the tired "left" this "right" that blather. Begone. You've nothing to contribute here.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the US had the worst medical system in the world. Whats this? A Socialist country (actually half of the politicians in Ecuador are communists) has worse medical treatment? That just doesn't seem right.

Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is, if you are looking for the best medical system for your population as a whole, it will look somewhat socialist. On the other hand, the US is well known to have one of the very best medical systems in the world -- if you have a lot of money. And then when you start talking about money, you start talking about medical insurance rather than medical skill or medical facilities, or the amount of money that doctors or drug manufacturers should earn for providing the care, and then suddenly we're talking politics and not where to find the right doctors.

Re:Wait What?

[hawguy]

I thought the US had the worst medical system in the world. Whats this? A Socialist country (actually half of the politicians in Ecuador are communists) has worse medical treatment? That just doesn't seem right. State run medical facilities are ALWAYS better, or so I was told by the NYT.

LOL. I love these stories where reality just smacks the left in the face.

Right, you'd think that an island chain with an immense population of 25,000 people would have top-rate medical care, it must be the politics that's getting in the way.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Daft liberal is daft and didn't bother to RTFS.
He was flown to the US for treatment because facilities in Ecuador are substandard.

Not sure why you are attempting to lie to make my original point invalid. I guess because my original point was so valid you couldn't argue against it honestly.

Re:Wait What?

[sjames]

If you're as rich as Bezos, health care in the U.S. isn't so bad. If you're poor, it is no better than what he was rescued from. You'll lie on the floor in your home in agony hoping the stone passes soon.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Social democracies have the best healthcare systems in the world.

Capitalist countries don't.

Commie countries don't.

Balance: it's what you begin striving for after your freshman year.

Re:Wait What?

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

It is the worst medical system in the world - for people who care what it costs. Statements like yours remind me of Mitt Romney's "What's the big deal? Borrow the money from your daddy and start a business!" comment - completely impervious to reality.

Re:Wait What?

[Joe_Dragon]

also talking about money in the us you can get X10-X100+ markup on costs as well.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure why you are attempting to lie to make my original point invalid.

I'm not sure how someone attempts to lie. There's lying, and not lying, but "I tried to lie, but failed"?

Anyway, it's true... hawguy lied. The population is closer to 26,640, not 25k (if you trust Wikipedia... if you go with the sources from WolframAlpha, you get only 17,800). That changes things immensely. Troll.

How is medical insurance for trolls, anyway? Is that filed under disability?

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Republican education cuts, again. They're trying to find the ultimate stupid in the universe, and they're getting close.

Re:Wait What?

[ganjadude]

well to be fair, what is different in what he said, and what our government does? How much money do we borrow from china every year to keep our "business" going?

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's all well and good, but the question is, who is getting paid too much? The lack of transparency seems to be the real problem.

You can say the cost is too much, but the doctors need to be paid, and their education is not cheap, so they should be paid well -- though you could argue that maybe the college education should be cheaper, but then we have to discuss the cost of education in the US, right? -- and the hospital itself is probably expensive to run (the buildings are no doubt expensive, and located in central areas which is probably expensive to do), and the drugs are expensive to develop, so the people doing the research on them should be paid, and their education was not cheap either, and ... well, it's a bad situation, but the waters are too murky to see who is the bad guy here -- you could say that it is the corporations, but as Romney said, corporations are made up of people.

Somewhere, some people are taking too much profit, I'm sure, just I don't know who they are, or how to find out who they are, and I don't know how to change the system without changing a big part of American society in the process.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the lie double down. He wasn't flown to nearby Ecuador for treatment (Is the population of Ecuador 25K to make your point), he was taken to the US.
So now we have a liar, called out for lying, and a second person doubling down on the original lie.

I find it amazing how the left cannot debate facts anymore. I guess when your hero, Mr "If you like your healthcare you can keep it, period" and his minions "The NSA does not do whosale survalance of the american people, period" lie as bad as they do, you just find it acceptable.

Re:Wait What?

[the_B0fh]

Are you really that stupid?

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, don't blame him, he's from a country with a lousy education system.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright, half-Ecuadorian half-European here. I've been to Ecuador often and visited their "state run medical facilities". I can tell you hospitals in the capital are pretty okay, all things considered (as in, "it looks passable to me": I have zero medical degrees but I do come from a rich Western country with good hospitals and clinics).

The Galapagos on the other hand, they're an archipelago of small islands, almost 1000 km off the coast, pretty rural and even the towns are quite small, so, yeah, wouldn't wanna catch something while there.

Another point: "worst medical system" does not imply "worst medical treatment", but my guess is you knew that and you're just trolling. The idea is of course that for the amount of money you guys are paying, you're getting way less than we are, and yes I'm factoring in my taxes.

(captcha: excrete)

Re:Wait What?

[smittyoneeach]

for the best medical system for your population as a whole

Medical needs occur individually. We do no show up at the clinic "as a whole" for a flu shot. Socialized medicine is the ecological fallacy writ large & tragic.

Re:Wait What?

[Garridan]

Somewhere, some people are taking too much profit, I'm sure, just I don't know who they are, or how to find out who they are, and I don't know how to change the system without changing a big part of American society in the process.

Just about everybody, except for those in care of actually doing the medicine (doctors, nurses, technicians, pharmacists... and janitors, who really shouldn't do the medicine, but need to be paid more). It's a deep bureaucracy where middlemen abound. Insurance companies take a huge cut, execs get paid way too much. Some rockstar surgeons get paid a cool half million a year... and they deserve every penny of that. Hospital C*Os shouldn't make anywhere near that. But they control the budget... so that'll never happen.

This is why social health makes sense to people. All the money is getting distributed wrong. Sure, there will be more overhead and more tiers of hierarchy, but the higher levels of the bureaucracy are government jobs with relatively low pay. It seems like a mixed public/private system is best: let the rich spend their millions on shorter lines and more advanced care -- but if you need to pay to get healthy, the poor get sicker, hence poorer, and drain the economy.

Re:Wait What?

[Joe_Dragon]

In social australia doctors get paid about the same as they do in usa and over all costs are much lower and most people are covered (at a lower cost to them then people pay in the usa)

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

for the best medical system for your population as a whole

Medical needs occur individually. We do no show up at the clinic "as a whole" for a flu shot. Socialized medicine is the ecological fallacy writ large & tragic.

That is one of the few examples where your comment is completely false -- vaccines, after all, only work if a large percentage of the population gets them. Broken legs, okay, that's individual.

Still, I don't see what's wrong with socialized anything... it seems to me that people are still throwing around the world as code for communist, without saying what they actually mean. To start in the beginning, how about that Ron Paul debate question: poor person shows up at the ER, no insurance, is going to die -- you treat them for free, or let them die? The first one seems "socialist", and the second one seems inhumane.

Re:Wait What?

[rsilvergun]

Yeah, the next time I'm feeling under the weather I'm sure the US Navy will be happy to send a helicopter to pick me up, right?

Re:Wait What?

[Fieryphoenix]

Here's good place to start. DME providers for CPAP supplies. Work your way up from there.

Re:Wait What?

[Garridan]

I love that you spout this black-and-white thoughtless bullshit and then deride GP for a lack of "balance". Your worldview is utterly simple. I'm an american living in a social democracy (Canada). We've got this 'universal health care' thing. It mostly works. It's better than the US in that mcdonalds & walmart employees are all covered. But, quality of care leaves much to be desired.

A typical example. It took my wife 9 months to get a NMR after a concussion -- the conversation with the doc was surreal: "What complications would an NMR find?" "Well, the worst thing would be internal bleeding in the brain." "How bad is that?" "Well, it could kill you in a week." "Are there any warning signs to look out for?" " but other than that, no." "That sounds like an emergency, can't we get bumped up the line?" "No, the system does not view this an emergency."

I've spoken to probably a dozen people about this -- everybody has a similar story. Another example, my neighbor tore a ligament in his knee, waited 7 months before he could get it reattached. During that time, he picked up an addiction to pain killers and lost 70% of the muscle mass in the leg. And then once he got the surgery, paid a few grand out of pocket for physiotherapy.

We also have huge problems getting prescription drugs. We bargain with pharmaceutical companies for drugs... and Canada has a smaller population and less bargaining power than certain markets in the US. So we literally get edged out of the market on certain pharmaceuticals. It's increasingly common in some provinces to make 'conditional surgery appointments': they'll operate if they get the necessary drugs... otherwise you go back on the waitlist.

Re: Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in Ecuador years ago I needed to go to the doctor's. No fancy waiting room, but good care.

Re:Wait What?

[MichaelSmith]

Aussie here. Its weird how expensive things can be in the US. I know US people here in Melbourne who flew back to Aus for treatment because they didn't have medical insurance while on a visit to the US. Its also funny how the best serious treatment is in the public system here. The private system will get your nose job faster but on the spot life saving surgury will be in a public hospital.

Re:Wait What?

[MichaelSmith]

Market based systems don't work where there is a high barrier to entry. If absolutely any US person could become a health care provider (as they could become a food grower) then the current market based system would be much cheaper. As it is, the government regulates entry into the health services market, and the businesses in the market use that fact to take huge profits.

Re:Wait What?

[MichaelSmith]

I think Canada must be suffering from proximity to the US. Here in Australia I have never seen a wait of more than a week for an MRI and a head injury case would go in within a few hours.

Re:Wait What?

[ThatsMyNick]

If you are in the sea, the US coast guard would gladly do that. They will usually bill you for it, though it is likely covered by your insurance for medical evacuation.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anyone reporting positive *instances* to you?

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

The last time I had to go in for an MRI (ie. when there was a possibility of something being wrong that warranted it) I was in within days.

By the way: you are quick to criticize the doctor but I assume your wife is still alive and well?

You waited because resources are limited and it was superfluous.

As for the drugs, there have been cases when Canada was unable to negotiate an acceptable price with the pharmaceutical companies and then just went ahead and produced the drugs ourselves without their consent.

No system is perfect, and you certainly have to wait longer in a country where everyone actually has access to health care and not just rich people, but I think you're off base here.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which province? In the west I've had a couple friends and family all be able to get MRIs for injuries within 2 weeks, and one case needing surgery was done in another 2 weeks. Having moved to the US for a job, I've had to wait for two months to get surgery on insurance here.

Re:Wait What?

[Lamps]

You can say the cost is too much, but the doctors need to be paid, and their education is not cheap, so they should be paid well

Insurance companies have recently been getting creative in their attempts to keep costs down. Perhaps another thing they may want to consider is to subsidize the education of med school students who intend to start their own practices, with those individuals' practices then giving discounts/preferred treatment to the customers of the companies that subsidized them to the amount of some value exceeding the amount of financing that was provided by the insurance company (adjusted for inflation, taking into account the risk that not all med school students will start a successful practice, and so on).

Re:Wait What?

[smittyoneeach]

So you're saying "as a whole" = "a large percentage"? Yeah, maybe cancer would've been a better example.

Re:Wait What?

[sjames]

I'm pretty sure I understand that sitting at home hoping it goes away works about the same anywhere.

Re:Wait What?

[Garridan]

Who the hell criticized a doctor? The system is clogged; that's hardly the doctor's fault. You're off base: I was replying to the coward who claimed that social democracies are the best, and my entire point is that there are tradeoffs, that no system is perfect.

Re:Wait What?

[TC (WC)]

Neat, I'm also in Canada and when I had head trauma they observed me and because it looked at least somewhat risky I got a CT scan within a half hour of walking into the hospital. Then when I started showing additional symptoms and the CT was reviewed I got an MRI, also within a very short period of time. The bleed ended up stopping itself.

In the year after that I had another MRI because of some continuing symptoms, in that cases there wasn't an emergency so I had to wait a while, and that's fair enough. Yeah, it's possible something horrible had happened again, but it was unlikely.

While it's certainly possible that your exchange was some horrible problem with the medical system, it's more likely that this:

"That sounds like an emergency, can't we get bumped up the line?" "No, the system does not view this an emergency."

was the doctor telling you he didn't think it was critical enough to escalate. Yeah, there is a system in place, but if a doctor actually has a reason to push for something due to a possible emergency he can do it. If you've had a concussion and it's been a little while and you're not symptomatic it's pretty darn likely that you don't have a bleed. It's not standard practice to perform imaging unless there are certain indicators:

http://www.ohri.ca/emerg/cdr/docs/cdr_cthead_poster.pdf

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Very True. We have the AMA creating artificial barriers to entry. We have lawyers creating ridiculous malpractice premiums. We have for profit health insurance companies that are by law required to give make as much money and provide as few services as cheaply as possible to benefit the stock holders. I wish we could go back to the days when people payed for medical care out of their own pockets. The free market can at times create the most goods and services for the cheapest prices. This is far from what we have here. We have a system where the few are using the opportunity to make as much money as possible and keeping competition down through the legislative framework that they control.

I would rather have millions of C student doctors than the current system we have now where we have a few A++ doctors. However it takes forever and a day to see them if at all. Remember the girl that died in the hospital waiting to see a doctor. Her boyfriend called 9-11 because the doctors were literally doing nothing to help her. 9-11 operator said tough. She is already at a hospital. The fact that you have people dying waiting to be seen, and the fact that it takes fooorever to be seen once you do go to the emergency room, to me seems to be saying we don't have enough doctors.

Sometimes the best medical care you can get is the medical care you can afford. This is a far cry from what we have today. Noone can afford it, and the USA pays more on medical care per capita than anywhere else on the planet. I would love to see Obama care work. I think that instead it is just going to be a windfall for the insurance companies. There will be even more bureaucracy involved if you can believe that. I would like to see truly socialized medicine work (single payer no insurance companies), but I don't think that will work in the USA. It may work great in Scandanavia, where people have a basic level of social responsibility and ethics. In the USA I am not so sure.

Best to create a free market system. You will kill all the malpractice lawyers. Outlaw the AMA and insurance companies. Everyone will get the health care they can afford, barring serious life threatening conditions like we have now. There should be emergency care car crashes, etc without first checking your wallet. Prices will go down. No longer will there be $1400 ambulance rides across the block. We will not have all the fancy MRI machienes but soo what. We can't afford them, unless you are truly wealthy. However the price will go down so more people will be able to afford them. The system we have now is untenable. It should not cost $1000+ for a non critical care room in the hospital. We used to have a good medical system. We didn't have all the fancy equipment, but it worked and was affordable. That all changed with insurance companies and HMO's The fundamental problem is cost. Mandating for profit insurance premiums will not, or at least I don't see how lower cost.

There is a saying that the good is the enemy of the best. The best care is something we can not afford. Better have good care that people actually afford.

I see no way to go to a fully market driven system, so I feel that the system will fall apart. Medical costs will keep rising. The srinking middle class will have to cover the rising costs for those that can't afford the insurance premiums, until the USA falls apart. Better move someplace else where people are less insane. I have lived in countries where you paid for medical care out of your pocket. The prices were reasonable, quality good (maybe not the best), and you didn't have to wait 4 hours to be seen. They were not worried about medical malpractice so they didn't have to do all that bullshit about taking your blood pressure for a hurt finger, and they didn't make you fill out a tone of forms asking if you have felt depressed in the last six months.

The very fundumental idea of the free market is that it strikes the right balance of costs and quality of services. Too many people i

Re:Wait What?

[Sique]

This is a fallacy. You don't have a high barrier of entry to become a health care provider. Train for becoming a nurse, it's not very expensive, and after that you can legally provide health care. That's one reason why nurses are not paid high wages. The market works here - not for the lowering of your costs, but against the people actually helping you to get healthy.

Doctors are constantly breaking the law by poisoning people, keeping them drugged, causing grievious bodily harm. The barrier of entry is not necessarily the governmental regulation itself, it's the fact, that doctors are allowed to do things no other is allowed to do -- because they supposedly know what they are doing. If you can prove that you can be trusted enough to be taken out of the normal course of law when it comes to keeping people in strict confinement, cutting them up, drug them until they fall unconcious, it might be ok. But if you can't show that you are know what you are doing, keep out!

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess you are a malpractice lawyer, and have a vested interest in the status quo and making it seem like doctors are incompetant greedy pigs out to get your money.

Re:Wait What?

[Sique]

The difference is that your dad might not have money you can borrow. China has. And that's what's wrong with many of the silver-spoon-population, they take for granted what isn't. They think everything is easy because they had it easy, and they just don't have an idea why it shouldn't be easy for someone else.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

The U.S. Treasury does not borrow directly from China, bonds are issued which are bought on the market. Any country can buy these debt instruments. The largest holder of these instruments are Americans. China ($1.3T) is the largest foreign holder, which recently traded places with Japan ($1.1T), the second largest foreign holder. China holds 23% of the debt owned by foreign nations, which is less than 10% of all debt. This is nothing but China fear mongering.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Somewhere, some people are taking too much profit, I'm sure, just I don't know who they are

Just about everybody

Okay, so here's a question... why aren't you in the field, then, if you think they have too high an income to effort ratio? You decided to make economically poor decisions on purpose?

Re: Wait What?

[sycodon]

Actually, that's pretty much the standard treatment once they confirm it. Pain control, lots of water, and wait for it to pass.

Re:Wait What?

[Garridan]

Don't like the taste of dick.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are making some assumptions about why he went to the US. You shouldn't be so fast to call other people liars, especially when you are coming off like an agenda-driven asshole.

Re: Wait What?

[sjames]

That pain control part is where it gets interesting in the U.S. if you can't afford a doctor. The government wastes billions making sure you don't get any.

Re:Wait What?

[Hognoxious]

What you say is true, but there's no good reason why all those costs should be an order of magnitude greater than they are in, say, France or Britain.

Re:Wait What?

[Aighearach]

Just sounds to me like in this case it was not an emergency, and the doctor had poor communication skills. That happens everywhere, and isn't the system's fault. If you have a hangnail and ask your doctor what is the worst case, the worst case is that it gets infected and you die.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html

Re:Wait What?

[Dan667]

statistics don't backup your statement that US health are is good. It ranks pretty crappy as far as first world countries go.

Re:Wait What?

[FireBreath]

As a Canadian I also find the US system weird and unfortunate that it leaves so much financial burden on those who are sick or injured. Our private system is similar to the Australian one. The private hospitals/clinics don't offer any different quality of treatment (the money the hospital can (legally) receive from the government is fixed for each treatment/process, and they cannot charge the patient beyond this) but private facilities can charge over the top for things like private rooms, personal nurses, shorter waiting queues, etc. (Some/many private facilities require you to pay for a room in order to receive treatment there.. and thusly they make their $). The cost of the treatment itself is covered by OHIP. Drugs and prescriptions are not covered by OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan). For this, most of us have 3rd party insurance, personally I have this as part of my benefits package at work. Even from when I was working as a teenager part-time at a national pizza chain we had access to benefits packages that would cover this insurance for reasonable deductions from your pay ($20-40 month). If you break your arm, and are one of those that don't have their own insurance for prescriptions/drugs, the hospital isn't going to turn you away with nothing.. I've been in this situation myself between jobs and they've hooked me up with a free bottle of (prescribed) tylenol 3's to get me through it. From what I understand there are programs set up to get people access to the basic drugs they need if they're in such a situation where they can't afford them otherwise... From my perspective, the system just works, and its crazy that the US hasn't adopted something similar sooner! (The above applies to taxpaying citizens in the province on Ontario at least.)

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Taking either ideology to the extreme is stupid.

Re: Wait What?

[NormalVisual]

Pain control, lots of water, and wait for it to pass.

Unless they're too big. Like you, I've had multiple occasions of having them, but the last time they were too big to pass and had to be broken up over multiple procedures after they put stents in. And God help you if you have staghorn stones.

Re:Wait What?

[Cyberax]

Markup on actual salaries is not that large. Typically private hospitals have less than 15% of profit margin - it's healthy but definitely not something to write home about.

Now, medical equipment manufacturers are profiteers. For example, a 1L bag of sterile IV saline solution costs $300 - that's literally 100x markup. And I'm not kidding - I have it in my medical bill from my stay in a hospital a couple of months ago. Drugs are even worse: oral vancomycin costs $500 per one dose - it can be bought for $5 in Russia or India (I checked).

Re:Wait What?

[SuiteSisterMary]

As a Canadian, the US system fill me with dread. It's just plain WIERD to think that, were I American, I'd have had to actually think about whether or not to get my gall bladder out. It would have been an economic decision. That's not right.

Re:Wait What?

[Rich0]

As a Canadian, the US system fill me with dread. It's just plain WIERD to think that, were I American, I'd have had to actually think about whether or not to get my gall bladder out. It would have been an economic decision. That's not right.

Well, for the 2/3rds of Americans who have functional insurance it isn't a hard decision at all. If I needed my gall bladder out it would cost me a $500 deductible, and then 20% of the marked-down costs until I hit about $2500 (the $500 already spent counts towards that), and then the rest would be free. Oh, and the marked-down costs are fairly reasonable - probably more expensive than Canada but not the figures you see in the news. The way it works is that I'd get a bill from the hospital for $100k. Then I'd get a statement from the insurance company telling me that they feel $15k is fair and that I'd have to pay my $2500 limit, the insurance would pay $12.5k, and the hospital would consider it paid in full). If you pay cash then the hospital tells you that since you're a cash customer and save them all the trouble of dealing with the insurance companies they'll mark the price down to only $40k and you'll go on about how much more insured people pay, clearly never having seen what insured people actually pay.

Now, for the rest of America it is a HUGE mess. They either pay cash, in which case they pay a lot more than insured people pay for the same care, or they think they have insurance but they have a scumbag company that collects premiums and then denies care at the last minute. Fortunately, this second case has been in theory largely eliminated by the ACA with its ban on denial pre-existing conditions. That practice made sense in theory and makes sense for most other forms of insurance, but for health insurance it is hard to prove when a disease started and it was often used as a loophole to deny claims for perfectly honest consumers who just happened to have a break in their coverage sometime in the past.

In any case, I'm all for reform and consider the ACA really just getting started. However, the reason people in the US aren't all gung-ho about reform is that many haven't actually had to deal with serious illness if they do have insurance, and most Americans actually do have decent insurance and do just fine under the status quo (well, ignoring the problems they probably will face in a few decades as a result of insufficient preventative care).

Re:Wait What?

[Rich0]

Here's good place to start. DME providers for CPAP supplies. Work your way up from there.

Heck, just look at buying contact lenses or glasses. That's just the CPAP mess at 1/10th scale or so.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or we could just pay a 5-10% increase in taxes and be done with it.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

With all the other English speaking countries having universal health care, the US was the last vestibule for non-universal. There was a massive influx of doctors. If the US didn't hold out, there'd be nowhere for the doctors to run to. You'd have the same level of medical training but none of the impetus to move (except other perks).

Re:Wait What?

[unixisc]

Maybe medical facilities in the Amazon rain forests (i.e. Brazil, not Seattle) are better than that in the Galapagos Islands?

Re:Wait What?

[SuiteSisterMary]

2500 out of pocket? Nuts. I was something like 13 dollars out of pocket for codeine.

It went like this. Go to hospital ER one night in horrid pain. Get ultrasound. Get told I have stones. Get told I should have them out. Scheduled for two weeks hence. Get gall bladder out. Go home.

Re:Wait What?

[travisco_nabisco]

The issue wasn't that there wasn't a sufficient hospital in Ecuador, just not on the Galapagos Islands which are almost 1000 km off the coast of Ecuador. "In smaller communities and in the Galápagos Islands, services are limited, and the quality is generally well below U.S. standards." Travel.State.Gov

Re:Wait What?

[jasper160]

I thought the US had the worst medical system in the world. Whats this? A Socialist country (actually half of the politicians in Ecuador are communists) has worse medical treatment? That just doesn't seem right. State run medical facilities are ALWAYS better, or so I was told by the NYT.

LOL. I love these stories where reality just smacks the left in the face.

Quite correct. When I was stationed there the common practice for the Ecuadorian military "doctors" was amputation for broken limbs on their enlisted. No attempt was ever made to set it. The USAF or USN always had a medevac available for US government civilians and military due to their primitive medicine.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except only an idiot would sit at home when you can go to any emergency room - no matter how poor you are - and theyll treat you.

Re:Wait What?

[Rich0]

2500 out of pocket? Nuts. I was something like 13 dollars out of pocket for codeine.

And what is your tax rate, including excise taxes on gasoline/etc? Actually, you'll probably still find your costs to be lower as the US has very high costs even when you factor out the crazy list prices that nobody actually pays. However, you'll find that socialized costs to individuals are still a lot higher than $13 for a major surgery.

$2500 is also the max I can spend per year on an individual on my plan. I've only spent that much once, and this is in a family with fairly usual health problems.

Still, it is way too much money for somebody who is poor. The issue in the US isn't just the cost of care, but how those costs are distributed. That is the main goal of a socialized system - to make the costs more progressive. Drug prices are an even bigger case of this - any sustainable system for creating new drugs is going to cost nearly as much as the one we have today (oh, maybe you can chop out 20% if you try hard), but a socialized system would put the initial costs into taxes so that pill prices are closer to marginal cost. No, the prices paid by EU citizens for medicine today are not sustainable unless the government picks up the R&D tab entirely (not just basic research) - they can only charge so little because US citizens basically subsidize all their drug development.

Re:Wait What?

[Rich0]

Or we could just pay a 5-10% increase in taxes and be done with it.

Well, that's why I called the ACA just as start. However, simply increasing taxes isn't really a complete solution to the problem. Costs also have to be contained, and the whole system needs a lot of restructuring.

Re:Wait What?

[Garridan]

Love all the grief I'm getting about this post. Y'all clearly know a lot more about my wife's head injury than her doctor... guess I should have Asked Slashdot.

Re:Wait What?

[sjames]

And then they'll bill you. And bill you. And bill you.

Re:Wait What?

[Anonymous Coward]

I spent a significant amount of time in Ecuador (born there), and my father worked in administration at a private hospital, one of two or three in Quito that would be able to offer just about any treatment you could want. in the last decade the state run hospitals have improved in quality so much, that running a private hospital is becoming difficult as the level of care is normalizing between the private and state run hospitals. All that to say that there is no reason a hospital in Quito, 1000 km from the Galapagos, wouldn't be sufficient for his care.

Instead he flew 3000+ km back to the U.S.A. for care, to me that indicates it wasn't that bad of a case since he flew an extra 2000 km just to get treatment in the U.S.A.

Re:Wait What?

[quenda]

And what is your tax rate, including excise taxes on gasoline/etc? Actually, you'll probably still find your costs to be lower

A lot lower. Surprisingly the US has one of the highest rates of government health spending in the world, similar to the total health spending in many developed countries.
How does the US manage this while keeping taxes low? By borrowing and printing money. US gov't taxes are low, but spending is not.

Re:Wait What?

[kaatochacha]

Socialized costs are often less obvious, and hidden under layers of bureaucracy.
Here is a personal example: I was at the bank the other day, and a guy walks in, asking the teller if she had a good holiday.
He then proceeds to tell her how his department received two weeks off, paid, for the Christmas/New Years holiday. How nice his bosses are, how often they get this, how surprised everyone was.
She asked him where he worked, and his answer: "The city of Los Angeles".
There's obviously no accountability to this, and that's where it hides in socialized systems.
Invariably, next year, the city will ask for increased tax revenue that's desperately needed: and ignore his free two weeks.s someone who worked over that holiday. As someone who worked over that time, subsidizing his two week vacation is infuriating.

Re:Wait What?

[kaatochacha]

"nurses are not paid high wages"...
Wha? Most of the nurses I know are very well paid.

Coming soon Amazon MD

[captjc]

He has Amazon Prime! I'm sure a drone has already been dispatched with his new kidney and a qualified surgeon.

Re:Coming soon Amazon MD

[Anonymous Coward]

> He has Amazon Prime!

No, he *is* Amazon Prime!

its great to be king

[nurb432]

Hes got the cash to be treated like that, so more power to him. I don't really see how this is 'news', unless its more stoking fires of the 'class war' that is going on.

Re:its great to be king

[Anonymous Coward]

from santa cruz to baltra: a 5 minutes flight.. where is the news?

Re:its great to be king

[the eric conspiracy]

Ordinary people get treated like that too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ALNW-USCG.jpg

Re:its great to be king

[nurb432]

Then even less of a non-story.

I guess its a slow news day.

Re:its great to be king

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck is Bezos?

Re:its great to be king

[Radak]

Airlifting people with medical emergencies from the Galapagos Islands to the Ecuadorian mainland is part of the Equadorian Navy's job description. You'd have received the same treatment and so would I.

Now, the quality of the medical care you receive afterwards might be affected by your wealth or influence, but the airlift is something they do for anybody who needs it, and it happens all the time. The only reason this is "news" is because of the notoriety of the patient, not because of the airlift.

Re:its great to be king

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing this is on Slashdot because it involves an individual who has played a very prominent role in technology.

stoking fires of the 'class war'

But since you bring that up: you don't believe that wealthy people often inappropriately receive preferential treatment?
There are some things that wealth should bring you (a bigger house, a yacht, one's own butler) however there are some things where wealth shouldn't make a difference (health, basic education, etc).

Re:its great to be king

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I would not agree that a kidney stone is the same as a "logging accident".

Re:its great to be king

[the eric conspiracy]

It's a story because celebrity.

Re:its great to be king

[Hognoxious]

Huh huh. heh heh. You said "logging accident".

Re:its great to be king

[bill_mcgonigle]

I don't really see how this is 'news'

It's not, the submitter just wanted to say:

where the State Department warns the quality of medical facilities and services are 'generally well below U.S. standards'

to try to paint Bezos as some dolt who should have just listened to the government. As if nobody visits the Galapagos and humans never suffer from sudden, acute kidney stones.

Re:its great to be king

[jslaff]

Good thing he had Prime--he got there in two days.

Re:its great to be king

[romcabrera]

Not that I doubt what you've said but, source?

Re:its great to be king

[Radak]

You can find information about the functions of the Equadorian Coast Guard (which is part of the Navy) at http://www.armada.mil.ec/fuerza-operativa/coguar/ . Health emergency-related airlifts would fall under the first of their tasks, "Salvaguardar la vida humana en el mar." The map of what they consider "el mar" can be seen at http://www.coguar.dirnea.org/images/stories/guardacostas/mar_ecuador.jpg .

Re:its great to be king

[romcabrera]

Interesting, thanks. (I'm ecuadorian, btw).

Insurance

[BringsApples]

Wow, the new Obamacare requiring policies to include free ambulance service really went a lot further than I thought it would.

Re:Insurance

[grub]

Your sig is relevant to this story...

Re:Insurance

[BringsApples]

My sig is relevant to every situation. :)
See where it came from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_too_shall_pass

There is an old fable that a king had his wise men figure out what phrase could be said under all circumstances. They supposedly came up with this.

Re:Insurance

[ultranova]

My sig is relevant to every situation. :)

Constipation?

There is an old fable that a king had his wise men figure out what phrase could be said under all circumstances. They supposedly came up with this.

Pity they didn't have xkcd back then.

Darwin: Survival of the Financially Fittest

[theodp]

"Jeeves, bring around the Dassault Falcon 900EX. This hurts like HELL."

Not such a big deal

[confused one]

In the U.S., this would have been handled by a U.S. Coast Guard flight if a private helicopter flight could not be chartered. In the United States the Coast Guard is a separate entity because of the Constitutional limitations of\n having our standing army and navy act as a police force within our own borders. In Ecuador, the Coast Guard is part of their Navy. This is sort of being blown out of proportion by the media because of the lack of understanding where Navy = Coast Guard in this instance.

Re:Not such a big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

In the U.S., this would have been handled by a U.S. Coast Guard flight if a private helicopter flight could not be chartered.

So, if, the Canadian government posts a bulletin stating that US healthcare is "below Canadian standards", then US Coast Guard would take people to their private jet so that they aren't stuck in a US hospital?

Re:Not such a big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, someone in the govt actually observed & obeyed a constitutional limitation?

We must put a stop to the coast guard immediately!

Re:Not such a big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

In the US, it would be handled with a couple strong pain killers and cranberry juice.

Re:Not such a big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

In the U.S., this would have been handled by a U.S. Coast Guard flight if a private helicopter flight could not be chartered. In the United States the Coast Guard is a separate entity because of the Constitutional limitations of\n having our standing army and navy act as a police force within our own borders. In Ecuador, the Coast Guard is part of their Navy. This is sort of being blown out of proportion by the media because of the lack of understanding where Navy = Coast Guard in this instance.

In Canada the Coat Guard is part of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans not the Department of National Defence nor a separate agency called the Coast Guard of Canada.

Re:Not such a big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

In the United States the Coast Guard is a separate entity because of the Constitutional limitations of\n having our standing army and navy act as a police force within our own borders.

You're thinking of Posse Comitatus, which we no longer have due to the N.D.A.A.

(captcha: stockade)

International Travel Insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get international travel insurance that will cover the cost of emergency medical evacuation back to the USA. You don't have to be a billionaire to afford it. I used to do a lot of international travel and would purchase a policy that covered me for one year. As I recall, the cost was only around $350.

Re:International Travel Insurance

[BringsApples]

Wow I've never heard of it before. I managed to find this:
http://www.travelguard.com/travelinsurance/international.asp?intcmp=clc-001-Nav-2-International

Very interesting, thanks.

Re:International Travel Insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow I've never heard of it before. I managed to find this:

http://www.travelguard.com/travelinsurance/international.asp?intcmp=clc-001-Nav-2-International

Very interesting, thanks.

Now all you need to find is a few people who have had claims against this policy paid without a massive hassle.

Re:International Travel Insurance

[BringsApples]

Welcome to the world, almost everything is a "hassle" depending on your mindset. So long as this type of insurance exists, I feel a bit more secure, as I had previously not known about it.

Re:International Travel Insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

My dad used some insurance like this one (Europe). They paid out without too much problems (just a doctor visiting if the illness was actually real).

Re:International Travel Insurance

[Dunbal]

Yeah tell me about it. Most of these policies also state that you have to pay up front and they will reimburse (if they decide to accept the charge). Air ambulances start at around $15,000. Good luck putting that on your Visa. Yeah some people can, but not everyone.

Re:International Travel Insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you're probably paying a lot - my travel insurance convers that + medical treatment if I'm outside of Europe (if I'm inside the european economic zone (EU++) I'm anyway covered by the standard health insurance/disability insurance payed through taxes) + lost luggage etc - and it's about 200 $ / year, max length of single stay 6 weeks (can be extended for a prize).

Sounds like a Standard Evac Insurance Policy

[Kagato]

Business people who travel the world usually have global medical plans. Most of those plans include evacuation coverage. Medical transfers off a ship are customarily handled by a coast guard. I'm sure the insurance company had to pay for the service.

If anything the insurance company saved a little money because Bezos already had the private jet in position and that saved them the cost of an airline ticket.

Re:Sounds like a Standard Evac Insurance Policy

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much anyone (well at least in the US) with a job in international has such coverage. I've always done sales or technical sales abroad and the companies that I have worked for, both very large and small, have always provided such coverage, including medical evacuation.

Re:Sounds like a Standard Evac Insurance Policy

[ColdWetDog]

The tone and substance of this story is more than a little suspect. The hospital at Peurto Aoyra (the biggest one) is used to transporting people off island for various problems although kidney stones are usually just treated with morphine and fluids initially. They certainly could handle that. The place is sparse, but clean. The docs there are mostly military (the military, such as it is has a large presence on the island) the commercial airline is owned by the military, and, at least at Baltra (the main airport) there is no evidence of anything else but military aircraft (a grey 737 and a helicopter when I was there).

So, the story line that the "Navy" "rescued" Bezos is a bit overdone. They shipped him to the mainland on a helicopter because that's pretty much the only way to get him to the mainland short of firing up a bigger aircraft. Like pretty much anybody else.

Must be International Drama Queen Day or something.

Re:Sounds like a Standard Evac Insurance Policy

[isorox]

The tone and substance of this story is more than a little suspect. The hospital at Peurto Aoyra (the biggest one) is used to transporting people off island for various problems although kidney stones are usually just treated with morphine and fluids initially. They certainly could handle that. The place is sparse, but clean. The docs there are mostly military (the military, such as it is has a large presence on the island) the commercial airline is owned by the military, and, at least at Baltra (the main airport) there is no evidence of anything else but military aircraft (a grey 737 and a helicopter when I was there).

So, the story line that the "Navy" "rescued" Bezos is a bit overdone. They shipped him to the mainland on a helicopter because that's pretty much the only way to get him to the mainland short of firing up a bigger aircraft. Like pretty much anybody else.

Must be International Drama Queen Day or something.

Standard for island communities, Women in labour in the Isles of Scilly off the Cornish Coast get airlifted to hospital on the mainland by the RAF. For free of course, it's a civilised country.

Re:Sounds like a Standard Evac Insurance Policy

[isorox]

Business people who travel the world usually have global medical plans. Most of those plans include evacuation coverage. Medical transfers off a ship are customarily handled by a coast guard. I'm sure the insurance company had to pay for the service.

If anything the insurance company saved a little money because Bezos already had the private jet in position and that saved them the cost of an airline ticket.

Personal travel insurance in the real world covers all that, and pretty much anyone in my country travelling internationally has it. Medical is not a cheap $5k plane ticket, a 4000 mile evac will easily cost 6 figures, in some cases 7 figures.

taxpayers money!

[joseph90]

Seeing how he does not believe in paying tax maybe he will re-emburse the navy and hospital for the full cost of his "rescue" and treatment.

J.

Re:taxpayers money!

[Anonymous Coward]

Like they do with everyone else, theyll send him a bill. Im sure he'll be able to pay it.

Jeff, people with your medical history

[Anonymous Coward]

Have also been interested in these products, on sale for up to 30 percent off:

http://www.amazon.com/Renavive-Natural-Treatment-Kidney-Capsules/dp/B00271CMTM

http://www.amazon.com/Whole-World-Botanicals-Bladder-Support/dp/B0027E884M

http://www.amazon.com/Margaritaville-Chillin-Pour-Liquor-Chiller/dp/B00418485K

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Re:Jeff, people with your medical history

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

Before some clueless idiot mods this Offtopic or Troll, read it again. It's hilarious.

Re:Jeff, people with your medical history

[TheGratefulNet]

"Sorry, the kidney you have in your cart is no longer available from the seller you selected."

I don't see what the problem is?

[hackus]

Everyone I know gets the Navy to come to their rescue for Medical problems.

Why are people upset, I don't understand.

-Hack

Re:I don't see what the problem is?

[ArsonSmith]

They're upset because they said there was a location that had worse medical care than the US. Obviously this isn't true.

Re:I don't see what the problem is?

[Idarubicin]

Everyone I know gets the Navy to come to their rescue for Medical problems. Why are people upset, I don't understand.

Apparently you don't. It turns out that in most moderately civilized countries - and also in the United States - if you need urgent medical care while on an isolated island and there aren't any other good transportation options then the government pitches in. In the U.S., the Coast Guard maintains a substantial fleet of search and rescue ships and aircraft which are frequently used for medical evacuations of patients from remote locations. If you Google using keywords like "medevac" and "coast guard', you'll have no problem finding scores of incidents. Here's just one from a few weeks ago.

Ecuador, being a small nation, doesn't have a separate Navy and Coast Guard; the functions of the latter are performed by the former. So...yeah, if you have a serious medical issue in a remote area, the Navy is the go-to option for emergency transportation--whether you're an internet billionaire or not.

Rescued?

[ecotax]

It's bullshit the navy rescued anyone here. Transported, helped - many verbs would have fitted better.
Kidney stones supposedly hurt like hell (no personal experience here), but it's not something people generally die from.

Re:Rescued?

[mpoulton]

Kidney stones supposedly hurt like hell (no personal experience here), but it's not something people generally die from.

They sure can be fatal. I would have died from a kidney stone if it weren't for modern medical technology. A stone which is too large to pass obstructs the ureter, which prevents the kidney from draining urine into the bladder. A kidney that can't drain will be permanently damaged and fail within a day or two. Worse, stones can become infected (as mine did), resulting in a kidney infection which will rapidly cause permanent damage and will progress to sepsis and death within days.

Re:Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering it's supposed to be more painful than child birth it might be the kind of thing a man would smash open a wine bottle and cut his jugular for.

Re:Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they hurt, I've had them. And indeed, you might not die but you will surely pass out if they are large enough. I agree that the Navy provided transportation, but he was likely not in any imminent danger. Other patients would have been given valium or morphine until you got to a port.

Re:Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to be too picky, but stones can't get infected... they are just mineral deposits. (seemed like you exagerated for effect) But your point was made.

Re: Rescued?

[florin]

A kidney stone attack can have very similar symptoms to an acute appendicitis (searing pain around the abdominal area, vomiting) which qualifies as an emergency. It is possible that an accurate diagnosis could not be performed on site.

Other than that, kidney stones are among the most painful afflictions there are. Patients are best brought to a place where windows can't be opened as some may decide to jump out on the spot. They will do anything to get the pain to stop, and a guy like Bezos just happens to have some resources.

Re:Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

The stones don't become infected the kidney does. Renal failure is a real risk. My wife went through it 6 weeks ago and she said the pain made childbirth seem mild be comparison. She spent a week in hospital on anti-biotics trying to get the infection under control.

Re: Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it hurt on the left or the right? Diagnosis done.

Re:Rescued?

[ColdWetDog]

Not to be too picky, but stones can't get infected... they are just mineral deposits. (seemed like you exagerated for effect) But your point was made.

Actually, the stones DO get infected. They are lovely little hiding places for the bacteria because they don't have any blood flow (they are in the ureter) and if the stone blocks the flow of urine (as apparently happened to mpoulton) it sets up conditions where the occasional bacterium can hide and grow and cause a clinically apparent infection.

That said, although an infected stone can be life threatening, the afflicted individual can be temporized by giving them antibiotics and pain killers until he or she does get to adequate medical care. And infections usually don't happen right off the bat - the kidney stone itself tends to give you warning that something is wrong.

There are always exceptions - the first thing that clues you off to an infected kidney stone might be fever / chills / sepsis, but that isn't common. We certainly don't have enough information from TFA to say if this was a complicated kidney stone or not. But from the breathless article we are led to assume that, had it not been for the brave members of the Ecuadorian Navy (who were probably flying back home to Guayaquil anyway), Bezos would have expired in a septic heap.

Re: Rescued?

[confused one]

You have kidneys on both sides...

Re: Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've had even the slightest medical training you'd know that some people's appendix isn't located in the typical place. Therefore your diagnosis would be wrong.

Re:Rescued?

[VortexCortex]

Kidney stones supposedly hurt like hell (no personal experience here), but it's not something people generally die from.

They sure can be fatal. I would have died from a kidney stone if it weren't for modern medical technology. A stone which is too large to pass obstructs the ureter, which prevents the kidney from draining urine into the bladder.

Yep. Kidney stones are scary as hell, I was pissing myself in terror before realizing it was a relief.

Re: Rescued?

[Anonymous Coward]

It hurt mostly in the *back*. I thought I had sprained something at bedtime and the pain was more of a discomfort. It covered an area wide enough and tall enough, that I could not tell mine apart from a bad episode of backpain (I was not even thirty, but that's all I related it to). It's the most common ER visit cause in the US, especially in the summer months where people are dehydrayed. Stones can from in weeks or years.

The turning over in bed, trips to the bathroom looking for relief that didn't come. Shivering, loss of walking strength and later vomiting... ended in a fireman's carry to a cab to get to a hospital for the unknown back pain.
Some morphine in the ER, an expensive MRI, got discharged 3 hours later. Saw personal doctor the same day and took pain medication. The urologist later said the 2mm stone was not a problem to process naturally. Didn't need pills, surgery or ultrasound to break down the stone because the urethra is large enough for up to 5mm. But I had to pee holding up an un-sanitary foldable strainer cup for 3 weeks till it came out at work. That way the lab can analyze it to suggest diet changes.

Because once you have had one you're always a candidate. I had fewer burgers, colas, milk and cheese that whole year. I have been bad, but there haven't been repeats in 4+ years. Some people must go on constant medication to lower stone formation, and sometimes they just pollute your kidneys and you need an operation to extract them.

Re:Rescued?

[Dunbal]

No, usually the treatment is morphine or fentanyl for the pain, an anticholinergic (over the counter in most countries) to calm down the ureter's spasms and peristaltic movements, and then waiting until it gets expelled. It's usually a good idea to get some sort of imaging (x-ray) to ensure that the stone is small enough to pass without trouble. I am sure ALL of the above could have been dealt with in any 3rd world hospital. But obviously His Majesty did not want to mix with the plebs.

Re:Rescued?

[Dunbal]

You can live without a kidney. So you probably wouldn't die from that, no matter how painful it was. Infection (pyelonephritis) on the other hand is a very real although minute possibility and its more often seen with stones made of struvite. Those are pretty rare. So combine the chance of the stone being large enough to obstruct (small possibility) with the chance of it being struvite (small possibility) combined with the chance of it getting infected (small possibility) and it's highly unlikely you would have "died". Although it is possible, which is why we doctors like to have a look at all kidney stones, since we can't let a patient go without making sure there won't be potentially serious consequences. And of course it's our duty to relieve the tremendous pain these stones cause.

Re:Rescued?

[Dunbal]

Yes they can, sweetheart. Look up struvite. You learn something every day. But don't worry, I only knew that because of medical school :P

Re: Rescued?

[SuiteSisterMary]

Yeah, but the abdomen is known for having really bad pain localization. The worst pain a man can experience, in my personal experience, is a 'good' gall bladder stone. Which tends to manifest as pain in the lower back. The second is a 'good' kidney stone.

Re:Rescued?

[Rich0]

I'll take your word that it is rare, but I know somebody who has had sepsis multiple times from infections that originated in the kidney. She isn't really a typical case though. I think finally getting her blood sugars under control did the trick as she hasn't had that problem in a few years, though unfortunately she graduated from there to strokes, and now she is right on the border of stage 4 kidney disease...

Re:Rescued?

[cthulhu11]

Same here. Were it not for the procedures I endure periodically I'd be dead right now.

Re:Rescued?

[Dunbal]

Oh yeah, being diabetic increases your chances of infection (almost anywhere in the body) by at least an order of magnitude. And people who get pyelonephritis tend to have it recur. Usually it's because of some anatomical defect (duplicated ureters, for example) obstructing the flow of urine. Urine must flow. If it doesn't flow, then you start getting trouble :)

Your Wish is My Bad Paintbrush Command

[theodp]

Amazon Prime Air Kidney Unboxing :-)

Jeff is a Good Guy - Hope He's OK

[Anonymous Coward]

Setting aside all the blather, I hope Jeff is doing 'ok'.

Re:Jeff is a Good Guy - Hope He's OK

[isorox]

Setting aside all the blather, I hope Jeff is doing 'ok'.

In the UK today 220 people were admitted to hospital with kidney stones. Extrapolating globally thats 30,000. Today. 30,000 tomorrow and 30,000 yesterday. That's one every 3 seconds.

I hope you hope all these people are doing ok too? I expect 30,000 replies from you, one for each person with kidney stones.

Re:Jeff is a Good Guy - Hope He's OK

[Anonymous Coward]

no, he is NOT a good guy. amazon is just as evil as the next money-grubbing, data-harvesting, tax-evading company... but we don't want him to die while enjoying his only-for-the-wealthy new year's getaway, either.

Proportion

[Anonymous Coward]

This is sort of being blown out of proportion by the media because of the lack of understanding where Navy = Coast Guard in this instance.

No, I think this might get blown out of proportion because it is a rather public demonstration of the privilege he enjoys because of his extreme wealth and the benefits that it, at least, seems to provide.

Had this been the more typical inside-lowerdeck-room passenger, who had saved fro a couple of years to afford the trip, they would have been transported across Santa Cruz(45 minutes) by car or bus, then a 5 minute ferry ride to Baltra and a quick ride to the local hospital or the airport, for commercial service to their preferred destination. As a against Bezos, who had his his private jet waiting for him, to carry him to a U.S. hospital. I wonder how long it took his jet to get there and if he couldn't have been using that time to travel to Baltra by more pedestrian means.

Make no mistake, I don't fault him for any of this. He's got the money an the clout that goes with it and there's no reason for him not to exercise it. I certainly would and I don't think he hurt anyone in the process. But, the general public (consisting mostly of penniless low class fucks) has adopted a rather knee jerk attitude to any public display of wealth as unfair, unjust, and unacceptable.

Re:Proportion

[confused one]

He has a private jet. He's also the CEO of a billion dollar company. You're right, people need to get on with their lives and stop reacting every time someone is in the news because they used the wealth they've managed to acquire. FWIW, my employers travel insurance and healthcare plan would get me to a local hospital for trauma treatment then have me put on a commercial airliner back to the U.S.

Re:Proportion

[Anonymous Coward]

But if need be you would still be airlifted out by the Navy/Coastgaurd of most countries, in The Netherlands the airforce AB-412 heli's have been used to transport patients from the northern islands:

http://www.defensie.nl/english/subjects/materiel/aircraft_and_helicopters/helicopters/ab-412_search_and_rescue_helicopter

This acts in the same manner as a ambulance service. It would be insane to let private people pay for a emergency helicopter ride.

Re:Proportion

[isorox]

He has a private jet. He's also the CEO of a billion dollar company. You're right, people need to get on with their lives and stop reacting every time someone is in the news because they used the wealth they've managed to acquire. FWIW, my employers travel insurance and healthcare plan would get me to a local hospital for trauma treatment then have me put on a commercial airliner back to the U.S.

My employers travel insurance is a little special as it covers war zones, Somalia, disaster areas that I enter after the disaster etc.

My personal travel insurance costs about $100 a year. The u.s.a add on doubles the price. It covers a private medical flight back home if need be, forget commercial travel. Also covers lost bags, stolen property, and delayed flights.

The u.s. Seems weird in that it doesn't generally "do" travel insurance.

Amazon rating

[Anonymous Coward]

When asked for comment, Amazon spokesperson Drew Herdener responded via email, writing, "I sent Jeff your note and here's what he sent back: 'Galapagos: five stars. Kidney stones: zero stars.'"

Jeff should know he can't give zero stars. Amazon will only allow a minimum of one star.

Kidney Stones

[jklovanc]

The general "treatment" for kidney stones to to fill the patient full of pain killers and/or smooth muscle relaxants and wait. Later an ultrasound would be done to see if other measures need to be taken. Kidney stones are rarely if ever life threatening; They are just very painful.

Re:Kidney Stones

[Skinkie]

Indeed, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butylscopolamine is doing the magic there.

Re:Kidney Stones

[nitehawk214]

The general "treatment" for kidney stones to to fill the patient full of pain killers and/or smooth muscle relaxants and wait. Later an ultrasound would be done to see if other measures need to be taken. Kidney stones are rarely if ever life threatening; They are just very painful.

Yep, also FlowMax also works wonders on stones once they hit the bladder.

A RICH MAN'S KIDNEY IS WORLD NEWS

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Well I hear you went up to Saratoga
And your horse naturally won
Then you flew your Lear jet up to Nova Scotia
To see the total eclipse of the sun

Re:A RICH MAN'S KIDNEY IS WORLD NEWS

[radarskiy]

I bet you think this post is about you.

Re:A RICH MAN'S KIDNEY IS WORLD NEWS

[93 Escort Wagon]

Well, his horse naturally won, after all.

How to fail at lying

[Immerman]

This sentence is fal.... is fa-a-a...
Hmph. Fine.
This sentence is true.

Below US standards

[FuzzNugget]

I'm sorry, I can't accept any argument that lauds the US healthcare sys^h^h^h business as being worthy of comparison.

The fires don't really need much stoking

[rsilvergun]

The best kind of war is one where the other side doesn't even know it's being fought...

Not a bad idea: Amazon MD

[goombah99]

Ecuador Military: 7500 people

Amazon employees: 110,000 people.

I expect

[WillyWanker]

That the kidney stone will serve a life sentence for this unprovoked attack on one of the world's most respected businessmen and all-around asshole?

I had a kidney stone while travelling last month

[langelgjm]

I had a kidney stone while travelling last month in South Africa. The pain developed over a day until I was doubled over on the floor, unable to concentrate on anything. At that point I realized I needed to go the hospital.

I went to the ER and was admitted within about 15 minutes. They did blood and urine tests, gave me morphine (I assume it was morphine, it took the pain away completely) and IV fluids, then did a CT scan. A doctor saw me, and I was discharged in about five hours with a filter cup and antibiotics. The stone had made it through the ureter and was small enough to pass without issue.

I paid for everything out of pocket. The total cost of ER admission, doctor's fee, CT scan + radiologist report, blood and urine tests, and IV fluids was USD $550. As far as I can tell, they did not charge me for the morphine, the antibiotics, or the filter cup. Also they gave me copies of my test results and a CD with my CT scan images, and I did not even have to ask for them.

From what I hear, a CT scan alone can cost thousands of dollars in the U.S. In some ways I am glad that this happened when I was travelling... my co-pays back in the U.S. might have exceeded the entire cost in South Africa. I probably could have flown there, gone to the hospital, and flown home while still spending less than what it would have cost in the U.S. I really see why people do medical tourism. It could make sense even if you have insurance.

I should note that this was a private hospital in Cape Town. The hospital was not fancy like we are used to seeing in the U.S., but the staff were professional and knowledgeable, and the quality of care was first rate.

what an awesome non story

[maliqua]

everyone who gives a shit and thinks this is news worthy raise your hand..

Re:what an awesome non story

[VortexCortex]

everyone who gives a shit and thinks this is news worthy raise your hand..

Yep. I don't have any stock in Amazon or its competitors. It's about as tech related as Steve Jobs' health or lack thereof. I mean, it would be as relevant to tech news as, say, if Steve Ballmer was possibly Microsoft, or if Google CEOs were saying terrifying things about privacy. Absolutely no consequence whatsoever. I mean really. Next thing you know they'll be listing news about video games I don't play or, alternate operating systems I don't use, or political rights online I haven't had since the 80's.

I'm strictly opposed to this continuing trend of presenting news only a small segment of nerds gives a shit about. If this is what Slashdot is cumming to then count me out. If it doesn't interest everyone, it shouldn't be news for anyone!

Re:I had a kidney stone while travelling last mont

[TechnoGrl]

What they gave you - believe it or not - was Ibuprofen IV. Morphine will not take away the pain of kidney stones (it's that bad!) but massive ibuprofen takes the pain away in a really short time. Been there done (and screamed) that.

Re:I had a kidney stone while travelling last mont

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Mine were so bad, none of that worked. They finally blasted me with enough Tramadol to stun an ox. THAT worked.

It must be nice...

[TDyl]

to live in a country where no-one gives a damn about anyone outside of their family or tiny social groups. As humans we have a duty to protect the weak and disadvantaged - and before you go off on one I am slightly right of Genghis Khan. If we cannot protect and help those that suffer more than we do, then how can we call ourselves human? We have to work for the benefit of all, not just shareholders and VC's/hedgefunds. Societal harmony and protection should be a minimum for anyone. The arrogance and plain ignorance of certain shards of corporate American life (which filters down into how the differing sections of society view each other) is an anathema to trying to advance our civilisation and improving the lot of the majority of our species. The sci-fi books I read (mainly the golden age) as I grew up in the 60's/70's presented a much nicer/better ideal of our world than that the politicians, preachers and flaming libertarian and republicans idiots are trying to form. If we as a global community of - hopefully - right-minded and socially aware techies can change things for the better (Farcebook, Goggle, Twatter etc, I'm looking at you) then we ought to; we should. Sorry for the rant and I'll probably regret it tomorrow. Chris

Re:It must be nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the greatest thing I have ever read. Thank you.

Re:It must be nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wanted to agree with your sentiment. It's very clear that we are social animals, it's striking that we talk about the individual so much. We're like cows arguing that individualism would work better. We live in cities of millions. People who live as individuals are called hermits. It's curious why we cause so much conflict with our own nature. For all the money in the world, it still took people to help Bezos. Completely independant, most of us will die in a short amount of time. Are primate cousins are similar. If an individual gets kicked out of a tribe and does not find another, that individual usually dies within a year. It only takes getting sick and not being able to get your own water for a few days.

Re:It must be nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

"As humans we have a duty to protect the weak and disadvantaged"

Oh bullshit. If those are your morals, hey great - other people have other morals. As humans, what we are is a species of biological organism trying to survive on this planet. Anything more than that is all in your fucking head.

Re:I had a kidney stone while travelling last mont

[Anonymous Coward]

The same visit to a US ER with same services and outcome billed about $10k to my insurance. CT scan was about $5k if I recall.

Amazon delivery drones

[david999]

It would have been better if Jeff Bezos had been picked up and delivered by Amazon delivery drones to a hospital......

Everyone is missing the REAL story

[93 Escort Wagon]

Jeff Bezos went on a cruise? Did he suddenly turn 80 or something?

Re:Everyone is missing the REAL story

[Dunbal]

No, he's a CEO. Ergo he delegates his work to other people and takes it easy while raking in millions a year in salary and stock options. Life is so hard.

Re:Everyone is missing the REAL story

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, he did just buy a print newspaper, instead of getting his news from the internet like everyone else under 80.

Just wait until you have one

[Anonymous Coward]

I had one last Feb.

It started out feeling like a really bad back ache. After a short while, it moved up to feeling like a cork screw being drilled into my abdomen. Then the cork screw got traded in for a hammer drill with a nice blunt drill bit. Then it got worse.

The pain is so bad that anything in your stomach comes right up. If you've never experienced rigors before, you will with a stone. Oral pain medication and proper hydration become impossible.

At one point I was on the phone shaking and vomiting, unable to get up waiting for the paramedics to arrive to take me to the hospital. I looked up and saw the knife drawer. If I could have reached it, I would have slit my own wrists to end the pain. There was no way it would have hurt more than the damn stone did.

It completely sets a new bar for pain. The only thing I can imagine being worse is a tumor in the pain center of your brain.

Re:Just wait until you have one

[TheSeatOfMyPants]

The pain is similar for peritonitis, which is also supposed to be worse than childbirth.... It's so intense that memories of it have the intellectual knowledge "I was in pain"rather than any sensory memory -- I've heard that's the reason that most women are willing to give birth more than once.

My main memory of having peritonitis at 9 and 13 is of remaining totally motionless on my side and trying to will my body to stop breathing so I'd die. On the bright side, when the surgeon told me that the second infection obliterated my ovaries, I immediately thought of how painful childbirth is supposed to be, and secretly reacted with cheerful relief, "awesome, I can have all the sex I want when I grow up and never have to worry about getting pregnant!"

Re:I had a kidney stone while travelling last mont

[BringsApples]

The hospital was not fancy like we are used to seeing in the U.S., but the staff were professional and knowledgeable, and the quality of care was first rate.

Exactly the opposite here in the US (nice hospitals, asshole doctors that want antibiotics to fix everything), that's why it's so damn expensive.

Bozos is a pussy

[sycodon]

I have had 5 kidney stone episodes in the last 30 years. The first one is scary because you have no idea what is happening. The rest are routine, more or less.

Urine sample to check for blood and a simple x-ray ( CT Scan? Really?) and they send you home with Vicodin and tell you to drink lots of water. Hell, he could have gotten the RX and continued the cruise if he wanted.

What a wus.

Re:Bozos is a pussy

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had 5 kidney stone episodes in the last 30 years. The first one is scary because you have no idea what is happening. The rest are routine, more or less.

It sounds like you have a bit of a diet issue....

Re:Bozos is a pussy

[sjames]

( CT Scan? Really?)

That's a perfect example of the problems in American medicine. We have a fairly inexpensive decades old technology that provides the needed information but it languishes in the corner so they can use the much more expensive (but not more useful for simple cases) technology even though it exposes the patient to considerably more radiation. Even so, a CT shouldn't cost nearly as much as it does.

Re: Bozos is a pussy

[sycodon]

Yeah...too much soda, not enough water.

Take heed everyone.

Doc Wagon

[nitehawk214]

Obviously he can afford the Doc Wagon evacuation plan.

Coast Guard is part of Dept of Homeland Security

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlike more overtly military services which are part of the Dept of Defense, the USCG is part of Homeland Security. Not only is it in keeping with the Border Patrol (also DHS) kind of thing, but it's also more in line with their original function of being customs duty enforcers (ICE, also part of DHS).

Irrelevant flamebait article

[dbIII]

Just about any service is better in a large city than in a remote area with hardly any people.

Re:I had a kidney stone while travelling last mont

[Anonymous Coward]

Tramadol is magical if it works on you. I've heard people prefer hydrocodone / oxycodone over it, but I'd go contrary to that any day. I have never been simultaneously higher and more free of horrible searing pain.

Jesus Miracle Church rescue Foundation

[Anonymous Coward]

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and since ecuador is a marijuana

[Anonymous Coward]

friendly country, you know what they brought jeff