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Building a Better Bike Helmet Out of Paper

An anonymous reader writes "Inspired by nature, a London man believes the solution to safer bike helmets is to build them out of paper. '"The animal that stood out was the woodpecker. It pecks at about ten times per second and every time it pecks it sustains the same amount of force as us crashing at 50 miles per hour," says Surabhi. "It's the only bird in the world where the skull and the beak are completely disjointed, and there's a soft corrugated cartilage in the middle that absorbs all the impact and stops it from getting a headache." In order to mimic the woodpecker's crumple zone, Anirudha turned to a cheap and easily accessible source — paper. He engineered it into a double-layer of honeycomb that could then be cut and constructed into a functioning helmet. "What you end up with is with tiny little airbags throughout the helmet," he says.'"

317 comments

  1. Bike helmet? by inode_buddha · · Score: 0, Troll

    Dafuq you need a helmet for on a bicycle? That's like putting a screen door on a cow. When I was a kid the only kids that wore helmets were retards. We didn't have warning labels on everything either, back then.

    --
    C|N>K
    1. Re:Bike helmet? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 5, Funny

      And most of you survived to adulthood -- although, as your post illustrates, some did suffer lasting cognitive issues.

    2. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll tell that to my brother who is now permanently disabled due to brain damage, as a result of not wearing a bike helmet and hitting a rock going down a hill at high speed.

      Thanks, jerk.

    3. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you wore a helmet, you would not have gotten the brain damage you now so clearly have with the falls.

    4. Re:Bike helmet? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Because it's the law in civilised nations such as Australia and New Zealand.

    5. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      This. Years ago now I was riding to school and was clipped by a car - in a bike lane (we aren't allowed to ride on the footpaths over here) - and the doctor said that if I hadn't been wearing the helmet I wouldn't be here now. You might be slightly uncomfortable wearing a helmet, and some people might joke about how it looks but it really can save a life.

      Just like you teach your kids not to run with scissors, you should wear a helmet when riding a bike and you should teach your kids to do so as well.

    6. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Dafuq you need a helmet for on a bicycle? That's like putting a screen door on a cow. When I was a kid the only kids that wore helmets were retards. We didn't have warning labels on everything either, back then.

      Had a shitload more Darwin award winners too, back then. Sorry to hear you didn't win. Please keep trying.

    7. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As has been posted to Slashdot before, the data on helmet protection is equivocal. In many large scale studies, increase in helmet use does not reduce severe brain injuries, and could possibly increase the rate.

      Why? 1) Helmets might make bikers less cautious; 2) helmets might make car drivers less cautious; 3) a helmet can only absorb so much energy, and in many categories of severe crashes you're going to cross the threshold of severe brain injury regardless of a helmet (in other words the range of energies a helmet can protect you from might not overlap well with the kinds of crashes you need to worry about).

    8. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, 4) many severe head injuries from cycling crashes are caused by rotational forces, which helmets can exacerbate. 5) helmet requirements almost universally reduce the number of cyclists (or reduce the growth in cycling), leaving the cycling pool with more adventurous and risk-prone bikers; 6) corollary of #5, fewer cyclists means less road time experience between cyclists and car drivers.

      See http://cyclehelmets.org/.

    9. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Injuries others have suffered are not a subject for humor among adults,
      you pathetic little twerp.

    10. Re:Bike helmet? by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      None of the reasons you post support your suggestion that helmet use does not reduce severe brain injuries or actually increase it. They are ludicrous at best.

      In 30 years on a bike, I've never ever seen someone say, oh, I have this helmet, lets see if I can skid right under that semi and out the other side. People who take ridiculous risks will take them without helmets just as often as with.

      The research only supports one assertion about increased injuries caused by helmets, and that is a marginal increase in neck injuries from the helmet catching on the roadway surface as you go sliding along. However, even this research recognizes this increase in neck injuries is a trade off compared to abraded to the bone head road-rash that would otherwise occur in the identical crash.

      That being said, when broadsided by a semi, a helmet won't help you. And its probably pointless to require them by law.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    11. Re:Bike helmet? by gnoshi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hate to say it, but my impression is that linking to http://cyclehelmets.org/ for issues of helmets is like linking to WUWT for issues on climate change. It has a particular position, and runs with it (whether that is intentional or not). They are by no means unique in this, and are also not the only position in the discussion to do it.
      That said:
      1. Dumb cyclists will be dumb, and if someone rides less cautiously because they think a helmet will protect them they are dumb
      2. Dumb drivers will be dumb, and if a driver is really driving less cautiously around a cyclist on the basis that a helmet will protect the cyclist they are not only dumb but outright dangeous
      3. Crossing the threshold with 100% of the force is still probably going to be more damaging than crossing it with 50% of the force (if 50% is absorbed by the helmet)
      4. And many are caused by non-rotational impacts, which helmets reduce
      5. Dumb cyclists are dumb, and if the pool of cyclists is largely made up of dumb cyclists then that doesn't mean helmets reduce safety, just that if a bunch of less dumb cyclists were added to the pool they would dilute the apparent stupidity of the group overall. Not saying cyclists are stupid, but rather that the number of stupid cyclists is the same irrespective of whether it is 100 stupid cyclists in 101 total cyclists, or 100 stupid cyclists in 1000 total cyclists.
      6. If #5 is in fact true (and there is little agreement on it) then this is true, and indeed having more cyclists on the road very likely does make it safer for all cyclists.

      There in another arguments for not requiring helmets, also based on the idea that requiring helmets reduces the number of cyclists: even if helmets do reduce the likelihood of death or brain injury in an accident, the advantage of improvement in overall community health as a result of more cyclists offsets the disadvantage of a subset of these being dead or brain injured.

    12. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The science is not a slam dunk for helmets. In many studies--including more recent studies, and meta-studies--helmets increase the injury rate. But even assuming that helmets provide a significant net benefit for cyclists, the reduction in cyclists caused by helmet laws definitely outweighs the benefits of helmets, because the injury rate is so low even without helmets that you're better off having a bunch of helmet-less cyclists losing weight and increasing their cardiovascular health.

      Once again intuition and anecdote provide the wrong answer.

      People eschewed seat belts for similar reasons--intuitively everybody thought that a seat belt would increase injury by preventing you from escaping from a wreckage, or by keeping you in a poor position.

      People: stop using your intuition for this kind of stuff, and read up on real science. And also be critical of the science, because too often even scientists inadvertently seek to prove their intuition, rather than asking the hard questions. In the case of helmets, the emerging, qualitatively better science casts serious doubt on the overall benefits of helmets from an epidemiological perspective.

      Helmets will help prevent cuts and mild concussions, but not serious head injuries with permanent damage, which they might even exacerbate. And helmet requirements disincentivize cycling to an extent that they often cause a negative net health outcome in the population.

      Takeaway: helmet laws are definitely a bad idea. If you wear a helmet, good for you, but don't judge others who don't.

    13. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, 4) many severe head injuries from cycling crashes are caused by rotational forces, which helmets can exacerbate. 5) helmet requirements almost universally reduce the number of cyclists (or reduce the growth in cycling), leaving the cycling pool with more adventurous and risk-prone bikers; 6) corollary of #5, fewer cyclists means less road time experience between cyclists and car drivers.

      See http://cyclehelmets.org/.

      You're just trying to rationalize your personal dislike for helmets.

      Saying helmets don't protect your head is like saying water isn't wet. It's fucking risible. Trying to prove helmets don't protect by using statistics from different groups (cyclists who wear helmets are a different type of rider from cyclists who don't) smacks of desperation.

      Tell you what. I get to smack you upside your granite skull with a car door. You can put on a helmet or not. Your choice.

      But the brain damage has already been done.

    14. Re:Bike helmet? by MarkvW · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your post is based on the assumption that car-cyclist collisions are the only significant kind of accident.

      I've gone down because of ice (x2), rain, and recklessness. If you'll look up the statistics, you'll see that borne out in the larger numbers as well.

      And human-caused climate change is real. Watch insurance prices rather than listening to politicians that are owned by the oil and coal industries.

    15. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to say it, but my impression is that linking to http://cyclehelmets.org/ for issues of helmets is like linking to WUWT for issues on climate change. ...

      You just insulted WUWT.

      Citing http://cyclehelmets.org/ is like going to Penthouse's Forum to learn how to get laid.

    16. Re:Bike helmet? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why do these arguments sound so familiar? Probably because they're so similar to the arguments people used to make against seat belts.

      "They'll increase accidents because they make it harder for drivers to stretch and look around!"

      "They'll trap me in a burning or sinking car!"

      And, my all-time personal favorite (yes, I've actually heard people say this):

      "They'll prevent me from being thrown clear of the collision!"

      People will persistently find the very stupidest reasons for not doing something that bugs them. Yes, each of these eventualities might have killed a few drivers who would've been spared if not for their safety belts. But those numbers are absolutely dwarfed by the number of lives saved and serious injuries prevented.

      I've only been in one significant bike accident, and I was lucky enough in that one that my helmet didn't come into play. But looking back at the accident and the pattern of my injuries, I can't explain how the helmet was spared. I sure as hell am not tempted at this point to ride out without it.

    17. Re:Bike helmet? by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Michael Schumacher is probably the best demonstration of why you want a helmet on your head when doing about 30mph ;)

    18. Re:Bike helmet? by TheLink · · Score: 3, Informative

      Helmets will help prevent cuts and mild concussions, but not serious head injuries with permanent damage, which they might even exacerbate.

      The level of protection depends on the helmet.

      Full face motorcycle helmets really work. Bicycle helmets range from subpar to a joke. Equestrian helmets are a ridiculous farce (worse or similar protection to bicycle helmets but you're higher up on an easily spooked animal).

      Nobody wants to cycle/ride with full face helmets, but I believe there's still room somewhere in between for better helmets.

      --
    19. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The science is not a slam dunk for helmets. In many studies--including more recent studies, and meta-studies--helmets increase the injury rate. But even assuming that helmets provide a significant net benefit for cyclists, the reduction in cyclists caused by helmet laws definitely outweighs the benefits of helmets, because the injury rate is so low even without helmets that you're better off having a bunch of helmet-less cyclists losing weight and increasing their cardiovascular health.

      You've obviously never gone down at 25+ mph/40+ kph and had your head make contact with the pavement.

      Once again intuition and anecdote provide the wrong answer.

      WRONG

      See above.

      People eschewed seat belts for similar reasons--intuitively everybody thought that a seat belt would increase injury by preventing you from escaping from a wreckage, or by keeping you in a poor position.

      What. The. Fuck.

      Seatbelts have NOTHING to do with this.

      Why not comment on the migration patterns of African swallows?

      People: stop using your intuition for this kind of stuff, and read up on real science. And also be critical of the science, because too often even scientists inadvertently seek to prove their intuition, rather than asking the hard questions. In the case of helmets, the emerging, qualitatively better science casts serious doubt on the overall benefits of helmets from an epidemiological perspective.

      Cite?

      Helmets will help prevent cuts and mild concussions, but not serious head injuries with permanent damage, which they might even exacerbate.

      Again. See above about going down at 25+ mph/ 40+ kph.

      And helmet requirements disincentivize cycling to an extent that they often cause a negative net health outcome in the population.

      TOTALLY irrelevant to your statements regarding helmet protection.

      Takeaway: helmet laws are definitely a bad idea. If you wear a helmet, good for you, but don't judge others who don't.

      Then don't make stupid claims and use irrelevancies to try to support you argument.

      Then don't make claims about "emerging science" without supporting those claims.

      Lest you be judged to be stupid.

    20. Re:Bike helmet? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Okay, I didn't see this post before my mocking response about anti-seat-belt arguments.

      I am very skeptical of meta-studies that claim helmets increase injury rates (in fact, I'm somewhat skeptical of meta-studies in general -- they smack of running the results repeatedly through the blender until you get the consistency you want). But I haven't done extensive homework, so I can't actually dismiss what you say.

      I do take issue with one detail, though: the assumption that helmet laws will disincentivize cycling. You're assuming that uneducated and unreasonable attitudes about helmets can't be changed. They were changed for safety belts, and (to a large degree) for cigarettes; why not for helmets?

    21. Re:Bike helmet? by gnoshi · · Score: 3

      I'm not sure I communicated my position. I don't trust cyclehelmets.org, which I think is anti-mandatory-helmet-wearing, to present balanced information, in the same way I don't trust WUWT, which variously seems to deny either climate change or the anthropogenic aspect of climate change, depending on the line de jour.
      I absolutely acknowledge that car-cyclist collisions are only one of many types of serious accidents. I personally do wear a bicycle helmet, and have smashed up several helmets through: being hit by a car (x1), sliding on oil on the road (x2), catching on tram tracks (x2).

      Mainly, what I was saying is that many of the arguments levelled against having mandatory helmet wearing (or indeed helmet-wearing at all) are not actually about the effectiveness of helmets per se, but about the supposed broader effects of wearing helmets. I also think they're mostly, though not universally, bullshit arguments.

      I should point out: I'm in Victoria, Australia, which has both mandatory helmet wearing and mandatory seatbelt wearing. There is a bit of a movement in Victoria to eliminate the requirement to wear helmets, but it isn't one I care about either way.

    22. Re:Bike helmet? by quenda · · Score: 0

      Why do these arguments sound so familiar? Probably because they're so similar to the arguments people used to make against seat belts.

      That completely misses the point of the parent. They are listing possible reasons to explain the data, not reasons why _you_ should not wear a helmet.
      If it is true that the data shows helmet laws not reducing injury rates per km, it does not mean the helmets are necessarily ineffective, but it suggests legislating them is not helpful.

      BTW, the data on seat-belts is very clear. I've never heard anyone argue against them.

    23. Re:Bike helmet? by inflamed · · Score: 0

      When Imperial Oil (Exxon Mobil) sells a piece of property in downtown Calgary for $70M... and you know they don't need the money...

    24. Re:Bike helmet? by impossiblefork · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are actually helmets designed to reduce the rotational forces though. For example, I remember my own university trumpeting one helmet design in which a kind of inner helmet was allowed to slide inside an outer helmet on a low-friction liner. Simulations demonstrated a reduction maximum strain forces on the brain. There's a presentation on it here by the company which now manufactures them: http://mipshelmet.com/how-it-works/the_invention and since it's a simple design I suspect that it will be a component of the helmet of the future.

      However, honeycombs make excellent single-use shock absorbers, so those surely have a place in helmets as well.

      Even if the site you link to were reasonable there is every reason to believe that helmets can be made truly excellent and made to give incredible protection both against shocks and rotational forces.

    25. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Years ago now I was riding to school and was clipped by a car - in a bike lane (we aren't allowed to ride on the footpaths over here) - and the doctor said that if I hadn't been wearing the helmet I wouldn't be here now.

      Your doctor doesn't know what he's talking about.

      Your injury was a different type to the one mentioned in the parent post. The one mentioned was a penetrative injury. The rock will have pierced the skull and an inch or so of polystyrene may have prevented the rock reaching the skull.

    26. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And the helmet laws make the idjits more identifiable on the road. The ones without helmets are the pinheads who think "if I don't wear my seatbelt, I can be thrown clear of the car when it catches fire", or the idjits who can't keep track of a helmet. I *appreciate* the bike laws for making it clear which bike riders are likely to take stupid risks when I'm driving or when I'm even on the pavement as a pedestrian.

    27. Re:Bike helmet? by gwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am a regular biker — At least three days a week, I cycle to work. Not a great distance, but I end up making ~1hr on the bike every day I use it.

      Several years ago, a car hit laterally my rear tire. Quite slowly, fortunately, although it managed to bend the rim ~30 degrees. Of course, cycling at ~20Km/h (~12mph), I fell down to my left.

      I stood up right away, scared but not hit. My pants were slightly torn over the pocket where I store my keys. Nothing happened to me, just a scare, right?

      When I took my helmet off, it was split in two. Yes, helmets are (and are designed to be) quite more fragile than skulls. Still, I'm very happy I didn't have to land with the side of my head on the road. Were I to be lucky, I'd have an ugly scar on my front left side.

      Wear a helmet. Always.

    28. Re:Bike helmet? by gnoshi · · Score: 5, Informative

      Responding to oneself is generally bad form, but:
      http://www.badscience.net/wp-content/uploads/Screenshot-2013-12-13-17.12.05.png

      In summary (and partially concordant with the person I initially criticised): On a community-wide level, requiring people wear helmets may not reduce head injuries, but on an individual level if you are cycling and can add a helmet to your cycling without changing your behaviour, you are probably safer with the helmet.

      (This requires a bit of reading into the paper, and a couple of assumptions: Assumptions are: drivers don't suddenly start being dickheads around you because you're wearing a helmet, and you don't start being a dickhead because you put on a helmet. If those two hold, then the case-control rather than community-wide studies are more applicable to the individual choosing whether or not to wear a helmet).

    29. Re:Bike helmet? by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the only two countries with federally mandated helmet laws, and they've both seen a dramatic decrease in cycling participation since the laws were introduced.

    30. Re:Bike helmet? by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we can all die fat and slow instead.

    31. Re:Bike helmet? by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

      Just like how banking laws would make bankers less cautious, causing the 2007 financial disaster. We should make banking safer by removing all banking laws...

      Oh wait. NO! You are a FUCKING IDIOT if you claim helmets make bikers less cautious. Just like those idiots who claim seat belts causes more deaths.

    32. Re:Bike helmet? by the_B0fh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They argued against it in the beginning. I remember reading about those idiots, and even now, there are people who'd use those arguments. They need to be loudly and derisively laughed at.

    33. Re:Bike helmet? by telchine · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because it's the law in civilised nations such as Australia and New Zealand.

      In the United Kingdom. HEAT suggests that a law making helmets compulsory for cyclists may result in an overall increase in 253 premature deaths – 265 extra deaths from reduced cycling less 12 deaths saved among the reduced pool of cyclists receiving fatal head injuries.

      http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1231.html

      I for one am glad that I live in a rational nation, rather than one of the civilised ones which you mention!

    34. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or does it show they increase safety enough to prevent a non-linear increase in accidents per km that would occur if more cyclists were added to the pool? As a real-life example, I flipped off twenty bicyclists today because ten of them were in the ample bike lane! and ten were in the right of my lane, forcing me to pass them in a turn lane. When I see single cyclists, usually only one in five is stupid enough to ride in the road when a bike lane is available. When there are a lot of them and/or they ride in groups, they behave recklessly. One equally reckless driver would have mowed down ten of them, versus zero if they were riding solo.

    35. Re:Bike helmet? by spike+hay · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hitting something going downhill at high speed is going to cause brain damage or worse whether you have a helmet or not. Crashing on descents is very, very bad news.

      Styrofoam will only protect you in low speed collisions. Somebody was killed in the Giro d'Italia last year descending from hitting his head on a siderail. He was wearing a helmet, of course.

      This is the problem with these kind of anecdotes: If somebody crashes wearing a helmet, and is OK, it's just assumed that the helmet saved him. If somebody is hurt and was not wearing a helmet, it's assumed that he would have been ok if he was. In reality, this is a completely fallacious assumption, and is not borne out by the data.

      Helmets probably have a positive impact on low speed crashes, but it is small. Motorists would have significantly reduced fatalities if they wore motorcycle helmets (which are much more effective but impractical for bicycles), like race car drivers do, but they don't. Pedestrians have higher fatalities per kilometer than cyclists (and pedestrian fatalities are often due to brain damage), but they don't wear helmets. Why is this one activity singled out to wear a bulky safety yarmulke?

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    36. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As an Australian who was there when they introduced it. This is a load of shit. It's not "civilized" it's a bunch of
      worthless wankers who demanded that everybody else
      join their cult of the silly hat. Cycling was getting more popular and normal people started to do it, and promptly noticed that Sydney is a really dangerous place to ride a bike. So the politicians did the most cynically expedient thing they could, make helmets mandatory. Originally there was no penalty, but the cops whinged. Hey presto 36% of cyclist gone with only a 30% reduction in head injuries.
      As they discovered in Australia, if you reduce the cycling population to those who are prepared to wear a silly hat, you can ignore cycling for decades.
      Heart disease killed 24,000 people last year in Australia,suicides were 1,914 motor vehicles accidents were 1,684
      Cyclist deaths were, wait for it, 27.
      Helmet laws are a SHIT solution to the problem of injured cyclists

    37. Re:Bike helmet? by spike+hay · · Score: 2

      Cycling in Australia dropped 1/3 overnight when the helmet law was passed. This makes it more risky for existing cyclists, as there is safety in numbers.

      The overriding public health effect is that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks in expected life by something like 30x. Thus, the 1/3 drop in cyclists results in many more premature deaths from lack of exercists.

      Helmets may provide a small benefit in some crashes, but helmet laws are absolutely indefensible from a rational public health standpoint.

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    38. Re:Bike helmet? by spike+hay · · Score: 0

      Actually if the helmet split in two it absorbed very little of the impact energy, and did not prevent any brain damage. It would have only helped (in a low speed crash) helped if it crumpled in. It might have prevented a laceration, so that's something, I guess.

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    39. Re:Bike helmet? by spike+hay · · Score: 1, Troll

      I should expand on this: Helmets are styrofoam (with holes in it!), and a thin plastic cover. Next time you buy a thing packed in a big box, try breaking the styrofoam. Turns out it's not very strong.

      The only way the deceleration (which causes the brain damage) is reduced is if the helmet crushes in. And this will only help in a low speed crash, otherwises your head will still be decelerating after the foam crushes.

      I think people tend to assign more of a protective benefit to helmets because of the psychological benefit of something over your head. In reality, brain injuries are caused by de(acceleration) which induces your brain to slosh in your skill, which styrofoam is not so awesome at preventing. It's even worse if it's torsion, which may be exacerbated by helmets.

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    40. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      responding to yourself is poor form.
      using bad English is just bad.

    41. Re: Bike helmet? by Chryana · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that uneducated and unreasonable attitudes about helmets can't be changed. They were changed for safety belts, and (to a large degree) for cigarettes; why not for helmets?

      I can think of a few reasons why bike helmets are different from safety belts:
      - Wearing a bike helmets has been legally required in several areas for long enough to draw conclusions about their effectiveness, and yet we are still discussing if they work or not. Thus, it doesn't seem all that uneducated or unreasonable to decide not to wear one, for now.
      - Mandatory bike helmets are incompatible with public bicycle sharing systems. There was an attempt to run such a system in Melbourne, Australia, and the requirement to wear a helmet was considered one of the reasons for why it failed completely to take hold. Since you're borrowing a bike, you have to lug an helmet around, so you can't leave it with the bike, and you can't borrow an helmet for hygiene reasons.
      - On a personal note, I find bike helmets very uncomfortable. This is a very personal argument, but the same thing cannot be said of seat belts.

      With that said, there are some ingenious bike helmets designs that are being worked on, which do not cover the head. They may prove popular, regardless of whether they are useful or not.

    42. Re:Bike helmet? by quenda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't confuse the questions of "should I wear a helmet" with "should helmets be compulsory".
      Same with drugs - laws can make things worse, despite good intentions.

    43. Re:Bike helmet? by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If somebody crashes wearing a helmet, and is OK, it's just assumed that the helmet saved him.

      No it isn't. If somebody crashes wearing a helmet and the side of the helmet is smashed in but the rider is OK then it's assumed that the helmet saved them. That happens enough for it to be worth it.

      I remember hearing this same stupid argument about motorcycle helmets, seatbelts and lawnmowers with naked blades. An easily complied with safety feature does not have to stop 100% of injuries to be worth it.

    44. Re:Bike helmet? by russotto · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Don't confuse the questions of "should I wear a helmet" with "should helmets be compulsory".

      In today's world, saying that something is a good idea is tantamount to saying it should be compulsory. And if you object and tell them it's none of your business, they'll point to healthcare costs and say it is.

    45. Re: Bike helmet? by dbIII · · Score: 0

      Mandatory bike helmets are incompatible with public bicycle sharing systems

      Let's change that to Mandatory bike helmets are incompatible with cheapskate public bicycle sharing systems where those paying for it have the power to change the helmet laws.
      Pure unfettered capitalism with no morality to fence it in will put poison in milk for children - which is why we need Churches and governments to keep it in line and why they become a problem when they get too much of a financial stake in situations where financial return can be put before lives.

    46. Re:Bike helmet? by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I do take issue with one detail, though: the assumption that helmet laws will disincentivize cycling.

      It's no assumption -- it's a statistically demonstrated fact. In places where helmet laws are passed, cycling does decrease, whether or not there's a good reason that should necessarily happen.

      But if you want to know why its different from seatbelt laws, note that seatbelt laws came about in two stages -- first, manufacturers were required to provide seatbelts in every vehicle sold. Then, after almost every vehicle on the road had seatbelts, drivers and passengers were required to use them. The first step, while slightly increasing the price of a new vehicle, didn't cause anyone any practical inconvenience -- anyone who didn't believe in them might grumble a bit about being forced to pay for them (it's not like one would actually refuse to buy a $xxxx car over a $x addition), but he didn't have to use them. And because of the first step, the second step had no up-front cost or inconvenience -- you did have to buckle up every time, but the seatbelt was right there, no need to run down to the garage and get one installed. (AIUI, there are/were exemptions from seatbelt wearing laws in any cars old enough to have legally been sold without seatbelts, and at any rate they were a tiny fraction of the fleet by then.) So neither step caused motorists to quit motoring, especially since most of them had no practical alternative for traveling the same distance.

      In contrast, many cyclists who presently ride helmetless have no helmet, and if a mandatory helmet law were passed, they'd have to make time to get to the bike shop and buy one or quit riding -- and if, like many cyclists, you've already got a car that satisfies all your functional transportation requirements, quitting is by far the easier option.

    47. Re:Bike helmet? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It did not.
      You are just recycling the gun lobby trick, only this time there is no doubt that it is a lie.

    48. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You quote a known kook site like cyclehelmets and you give thanks for being rational?

      Wow.

    49. Re: Bike helmet? by Chryana · · Score: 2

      No sure where you get that from. What's wrong with encouraging people to do more biking? You think that running a public bike transit system is expensive? If it makes, say, a hundred fewer cars off the road, you end up paying less for road maintenance, the people that use it spend less time at the hospital because they're healthier, it helps with air pollution in the city, the traffic flow will go a little bit faster and drivers get to be back home sooner after work, etc, etc, etc. I am sick and tired of hearing arguments that go along the lines of "If I don't use a service, I don't benefit from it, and I shouldn't have to pay for it.". It's hard to calculate the benefits of a public bicycle sharing system, but what I think is clear is that you can't say straight up that it is a clear negative from a driver's point of view, and you certainly haven't brought any data to draw that conclusion from. I think your opinion is narrow-minded at best.

    50. Re:Bike helmet? by telchine · · Score: 1

      You quote a known kook site like cyclehelmets and you give thanks for being rational?

      Ad hominem, much?

    51. Re:Bike helmet? by gwolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As I said in my post, I think that were I not to have my helmet on, I'd have a nasty scar, the product of using my forehead as a brake. It was a fairly low speed hit, but my head did hit the pavement *in* the helmet. So, the helmet absorbed some of the impact — but it also put a good 2cm between my skin and the street.

      Also, a helmet is coated in plastic to make it smooth, almost derrapant. It would not be impossible for my head, with a far higher friction, to get stuck while reducing the speed of my body - and could end up in spinal damage, maybe fatal.

      Of course, I have no way to know if that would happen were I not wearing a helmet. But I won't take chances.

    52. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And to make the complementary statement - someone close to me had a low speed impact with a signpost by the side of the road (slipped on a muddy bike path), ended up in intensive care and permanent brain damage. She was not wearing a helmet.

    53. Re:Bike helmet? by MarkRose · · Score: 2

      One time I was taking a jump on my bike at 25 km/h, but was off balance and landed on my side, including the side of my head, at the same speed in rocks and packed dirt. I still have my left ear because I was wearing a helmet.

      --
      Be relentless!
    54. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post is based on the assumption that car-cyclist collisions are the only significant kind of accident.

      Because that is the correct assumption. Any other crash is avoidable by the cyclist. If it wasn't for cars, normal bike helmets are more than enough for almost any bike crash I can imagine.

    55. Re:Bike helmet? by rnturn · · Score: 1

      Jeebus! You've got to be some special kind of lazy to think that it's oh so much trouble to get to a cycling shop or a big box sporting goods store to pick up a helmut. It's not like you're going to be doing this more than once a year (if that) unless you're the type who crashes every other time you get on the bike. My advise to such people might just be that they really should give up cycling. If you so effin' lazy that it's too much trouble to buy a helmut, you probably won't be bothered to learn and employ safe cycling practices and just get yourself killed, helmut or not.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    56. Re:Bike helmet? by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      I was in primary school when this law was introduced in NZ. I remember the day before it was introduced, the bike rack was full to overflowing. The day after there where maybe three bikes total. I never cycled to school again after that day. Many of my peers started being dropped of by car, which compounded, more cars means more hazards, means more parents drive their child to school, means even more hazards... etc, to the point where it's the norm. Now New Zealand has an almost incalculably low cycling rate and we are one of the top five most obese countries in the world. I'm sure the head injury rate dropped, but at what cost...

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    57. Re:Bike helmet? by dasunt · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      Helmets are destroyed in accidents in order to absorb the energy of impact. It's similar to cars - very few educated people complain that a vehicle in a serious accident is destroyed, since we know vehicles are designed with crumple zones in order to absorb the energy of a crash.

      So why should we trust an inventor who doesn't understand bike helmets are designed to be destroyed in a crash in order to absorb energy?

    58. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think that the safety record of helmets is anything like the safety record of seat belts then you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

    59. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you've never gone mountain biking. Hitting a rock with a helmet is vastly better than hitting one without. The same goes for curbs, fire hydrants, and utility poles.

      Besides bicycles I also ride motorcycles. The argument against wearing helmets is a fierce one from some sectors of the community. Statistics show one of the leading causes of fatalities is not wearing a helmet.

    60. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I flipped off twenty bicyclists today because ten of them were in the ample bike lane!"

      A, why flip off the 10 that were in the bike lane?
      B, since you are not on a bike, is it possible that the bike lane is not as ample as you believe it to be? Road and other conditions can make the bike lane fine for a car, but not for a bike. Also, experience has taught me that it is best to be extremely visible to cars, which, unfortunately, means riding as straight a line as I can, which sometimes means riding closer to traffic.

      "and ten were in the right of my lane, forcing me to pass them in a turn lane."

      You mean that you had to intrude into the left turn lane to pass them?
      I would like to suggest that maybe the lane is not wide enough then, assuming that the bike lane isnt ample, or other conditions apply.

      "When I see single cyclists, usually only one in five is stupid enough to ride in the road when a bike lane is available. When there are a lot of them and/or they ride in groups, they behave recklessly. One equally reckless driver would have mowed down ten of them, versus zero if they were riding solo"

      Ride a while on their wheels before you judge them. Realize that your life is in their hands, and see how callously drivers regard that responsibility.
      Then, try *hard* not to get angry. You are seeing one side of the issue. You have no idea what is on the other side.
      It's different, and the fact that you don't understand why they ride where they do doesn't mean that there isn't validity to it.

    61. Re:Bike helmet? by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, given we know the forces and situations involved: Helmets are clearly only addressing the symptom of the bigger problem.

      The solution is to correct the design flaw and build structures where the chest houses the brain instead of a ridiculous appendage.
      If input lag was a problem then why put the visual cortex in the back of the skull, and motor cortex so far from the feet?
      Let's upgrade to impact resistant brains and bodies that can survive in the vacuum of space while we're at it.
      Intelligently Designed... Pah!

    62. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Motorcycle helmets work, sure, but when you are the power plant, you will overheat in no time at all.

    63. Re:Bike helmet? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      increase in helmet use does not reduce severe brain injuries

      4) You're more likely to die than be brain damaged if you don't wear a helmet.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    64. Re:Bike helmet? by ErroneousBee · · Score: 1
      I remember my own university trumpeting one helmet design

      I suspect they had a financial interest, which is sadly what most of this debate is about.

      --
      **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
    65. Re:Bike helmet? by GauteL · · Score: 3, Informative

      My favourite of these arguments is the argument against speed-limiters on car:

      "I may at some point need to go really fast to avoid an accident".

      Often used by people who don't like the idea of limiting a car to 150 km/h despite the fact that their country doesn't allow travel faster than 120 km/h anywhere. Because of this, they come up with all sorts of extremely unlikely scenarios where travelling really fast may save them. They also try very hard to ignore other solutions than driving really fast.

    66. Re:Bike helmet? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      I got stuck with the rear wheel in a rail track once and had a short and ugly flight over the handlebar. Thanks to the helmet, I was just dizzy for a couple of days. Without it it would have been a concussion.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    67. Re:Bike helmet? by tsapi · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am working for the past ten years as a medical doctor in an Intensive Care Unit. We treat lots of trauma patients, especially due to motor vehicle accidents. I don't have any statistics in hand, but I am *absolutely* sure that there is a *vast* difference regarding the prevalence and the severity of brain injury amongst trauma patients after motorcycle accidents (patients having not used helmet have dramatically more often and more severe brain injury). According to my experience, I would never ride a motorbike.. :-) If I had to, I would definitely and absolutely use a helmet.

    68. Re:Bike helmet? by slim · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He was talking about helmet-vs-no-helmet, not trad-helmet-vs-paper-helmet.

      If you're cycling at 30MPH, come off cornering on ice, and hit your head on a kerb, a helmet may well save your life.

      I do have quite a lot of sympathy for the view that there are circumstances where a fall is so unlikely that a helmet is a waste of time -- cycling in light traffic, with warm dry weather and no recklessness.

      I finally bought a comfortable helmet, and since it's comfortable I always wear it. It's easier to do that than to evaluate the conditions every morning.

    69. Re:Bike helmet? by slim · · Score: 1

      So if all drivers are like you, I should not wear a helmet, knowing that you'll take extra care when you see me?

    70. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      7) When people commonly wear helmets, politicians aren't willing to improve cyclist infrastructure, even though the latter actually helps and the former doesn't.

    71. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Assumptions are: drivers don't suddenly start being dickheads around you because you're wearing a helmet

      Unfortunately, this assumption seems to be false. See the second graph on the first page of this report. Drivers consistently leave less space around cyclists when they're wearing a helmet, by 5-10 cm.

    72. Re:Bike helmet? by drsquare · · Score: 1

      If wearing a helmet makes any sense, why don't they wear them in Holland or Denmark?

    73. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I have a Request for Enhancement: please put my balls on the inside ;-)

    74. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You quote a known kook site like cyclehelmets and you give thanks for being rational?

      Ad hominem, much?

      It IS a kook site.

    75. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should expand on this: Helmets are styrofoam (with holes in it!), and a thin plastic cover. Next time you buy a thing packed in a big box, try breaking the styrofoam. Turns out it's not very strong.

      The only way the deceleration (which causes the brain damage) is reduced is if the helmet crushes in. And this will only help in a low speed crash, otherwises your head will still be decelerating after the foam crushes.

      I think people tend to assign more of a protective benefit to helmets because of the psychological benefit of something over your head. In reality, brain injuries are caused by de(acceleration) which induces your brain to slosh in your skill, which styrofoam is not so awesome at preventing. It's even worse if it's torsion, which may be exacerbated by helmets.

      You're a fucking IDIOT

      Because ripping apart plain styrofoam with shear stress is the same as impacting styrofoam that's bonded to a shell designed to hold it together.

      DUMBASS

      Of course you don't bother to calculate how much energy actually splitting a styrofoam helmet absorbs, now did you?

      Of course not.

      Because you're a derpy MORON with an asinine agenda.

    76. Re:Bike helmet? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 3, Interesting

      See also the discussion section of that report:

      Research suggests drivers tend to believe helmeted cyclists are more serious and less likely to make unexpected moves [2,3]; the helmet effect seen here is likely a behavioural manifestation of this belief.

      Drivers expect helmeted cyclists to behave more predictably. What are the obvious conclusions?

      1. As helmet use becomes more prevalent, drivers may be less likely to interpret it as a sign of competence.

      2. If you want drivers to give you space, do your best to look and act like an incompetent idiot. Note: this works for motor vehicle operators as well.

    77. Re:Bike helmet? by asylumx · · Score: 2

      As my dad always said, if you don't wear a helmet while biking, you've got nothing worth protecting anyway. Parent post does a pretty good job of demonstrating this.

    78. Re:Bike helmet? by hawkinspeter · · Score: 2

      Also, a lot of bike lanes are very poorly designed for cyclists. Lots of them here in the UK are dual purpose pedestrian/cyclist tracks which means that they're not suitable for a cyclist going 15mph or quicker. A lot of bike lanes have badly thought out exit points, so you can actually put yourself in more danger by using the lane and then being dumped into fast moving traffic at an inopportune point.

      Cycle lanes (at least in the UK) are purely optional and as a UK tax payer, I pay more than my fair share towards roads and definitely have the right to use them. Demanding that cyclist use a cycle lane whenever possible is like demanding that motorists have to use motorways (interstates) whenever possible.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    79. Re:Bike helmet? by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      So what? If the argument is invalid then point out the flaws in the argument/numbers, not the flaws in the presenter of the argument.

    80. Re:Bike helmet? by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      If wearing a helmet didn't make any sense, why do all professional cyclists wear them?

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    81. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. *used* to be a bike-based lifeform, commuting daily, blah blah blah
      2. not too many accidents, and as someone alluded to in another post, *most* of them due to non-car interactions: a sewer grate, a slipper/leafy spot on the road, other -you know- idiot bikers, pedestrians, etc...
      3. never have worn a helmet, the one 'bad' accident i had, car went through a stop sign and across the sidewalk i was booking down at 30+ mph, i left a skid mark 20-30 feet long, and hit the rear passenger window with my head, and the most amazing thing was, seeing the silvery shower of blowed up tempered glass that my skull (now proven to be solid bone) exploded out of the car... it was a really cool vision... i must admit i was a little dazed, and someone picked up my (broken) glasses and handed them to me... my shoulder felt a little weird, turns out it was a ___ (whatever the 'worst') shoulder separation...
      think i had some cuts on my face/scalp... bike's fork was pretzled... anyway, i don't recommend it... not sure a helmet would have helped my separated shoulder, though... head was fine, window lost that battle... hee hee
      4. having said most accidents due to non-car interaction, that is not for lack of trying on the idiot car drivers' part: bike will have a clear right of way, bike rider can LOOK the damn car driver square in the eyes (assuming you can see through their tinted windows: which is why i hate them as a driver), and the car driver will STILL ILLEGALLY turn RIGHT into the bike rider, if you're not looking for it in self-defense...
      5. lastly, my occasional bike riding these days is almost always in the confines of a state park on trails, etc; a helmet might be semi-prudent under some circumstances, but, really, just a sweaty load i don't need...

    82. Re:Bike helmet? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Helmets do indeed work for low impact low energy type events.

      "Helmets don't reduce injuries" may be a more complicated issue.

      People who are now injured by a particular impact, used to die, sometimes dead right there. And people who used to have brain injury and a life of drooling in a home somewhere, are now "not injured" or just scraped and bruised and get back up, continue, and buy another helmet. The "degree of injury" brackets shifted over one slot on a whole bunch of types of impact severity.

      Similar effects can be seen with safety features on cars where drivers act more recklessly when they perceive their cars as more 'iron clad'. We've all seen that, the invincible Suzi McSoccermom barreling down the highway on her phone because she drives a Tahoe with lifted suspension and a brush guard on it to the grocery store and tanning place.

      The fact the bicycle crash brain injury numbers didn't go down doesn't conclusively demonstrate helmets aren't helping.

    83. Re:Bike helmet? by coofercat · · Score: 1

      I remember an Aussie telling me that because the kids don't want to have to wear a helmet, they just do it so badly that it's all but useless. For example, perched on the back of their head, not buckled up, buckled up so loosely that they can take it off without undoing it, etc. I can't say all of them do it, but I definitely saw it going on when I was there.

      Personally, I'd be all for some (rational) TV or poster ads that said something like "cycling without a helmet? You're X times more likely to get a head injury" (or something more compelling). The point being to make it "frowned upon" that you're cycling without one, rather than illegal. We've got enough laws already.

    84. Re:Bike helmet? by mrclisdue · · Score: 1

      If wearing a helmet makes any sense, why don't they wear them in Holland or Denmark?

      I googled "countries that make the most sense", and neither Holland nor Denmark came up. Wiki was of no help.

      I'm wondering where your premise that the Dutch and Danes make sense comes from?

      I know this Danish lady, Ethla, and she makes pretty good sense, but she's agoraphobic, so she wouldn't ride a bicycle lest she cross paths with another human. She is very much the type to wear a helmet in a car, though. Perhaps with a full, tinted face shield, as well.

      Another Dane I know owes me 25 bucks, and he drinks too much, and he rarely makes sense regardless.

      I know a couple hundred Dutch folk, and very few of them make sense. Flying Dutchman is apt for 90% of them. And if you get a Frisian amongst them, and he starts yammering in his native tongue, well you'll quickly be rethinking the helmet thing.

      cheers,

    85. Re:Bike helmet? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Okay, I didn't see this post before my mocking response about anti-seat-belt arguments.

      I am very skeptical of meta-studies that claim helmets increase injury rates (in fact, I'm somewhat skeptical of meta-studies in general -- they smack of running the results repeatedly through the blender until you get the consistency you want). But I haven't done extensive homework, so I can't actually dismiss what you say.

      I do take issue with one detail, though: the assumption that helmet laws will disincentivize cycling. You're assuming that uneducated and unreasonable attitudes about helmets can't be changed. They were changed for safety belts, and (to a large degree) for cigarettes; why not for helmets?

      They may increase the injury rate by pulling people from the "dead" rate.

    86. Re:Bike helmet? by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      Motorists would have significantly reduced fatalities if they wore motorcycle helmets (which are much more effective but impractical for bicycles), like race car drivers do, but they don't.

      Not quite. In addition to a crash helmet, you would also need a HANS (head and neck support) system, six-point seat belt, a net along the window like you see in NASCAR, and a roll cage. And since it would take you longer to exit the car, you would also need an automatic fire suppression system. At that point it's quite a lot more impractical and expensive compared to a normal car than the difference of bike helmet vs. no bike helmet.

      Also, you can get full helmets for bicycling. It's standard issue for downhill cycling, see e.g. here. That manufacturer (POC) have been making state-of-the-art crash helmets for skiing (used by many athletes in the Alpine World Cup) and biking for about 10 years now, so I suspect they've got a much better idea of how to do it than some random guy who tried to improve over $10 styrofoam helmets.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    87. Re:Bike helmet? by dargaud · · Score: 1

      motorcycle helmets (which are much more effective but impractical for bicycles

      Actually downhill mountain bike helmets are similar to motorcycle helmets. But they are indeed impractical for pedaling up because they are too warm.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    88. Re:Bike helmet? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      So with your single data point point you are going to proselytize your ideology??

      You seem to be ignoring the data:
      http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

      Helmets are treating the symptom of being unaware instead of focusing on the cause for why you even had an accident in the first place.

    89. Re:Bike helmet? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      /sarcasm I have a great idea! Let's call everyone who doesn't proselytize The Church of Bike Helmets ideology "idjits" to get them to convert to our religion!

      Let us also ignore the data:
      http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

      Let us also stick our head in the sand and propagate myths
      TEDx Copenhagen - Mikael Colville-Andersen - Why We Shouldn't Bike with a Helmet
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY

      Let us also ignore the context for when seatbelts are NOT required such as when a person has been certified with a phobia of seat belts, non-front seat passengers of a motor home, etc.

      How can I not possibly win!? /sarcasm

      --
      FecesBook, noun: Website where everyone posts dumb shit that no ones gives a crap about; aka FazeBook, FagBook, FartBook, etc.

    90. Re:Bike helmet? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      The natural consequence of what you are describing then would be that the injury statistics do not change, but the death statistics should. Afterall, if the injury severity is just "shifted down one" then the final category of injury: death, should see a decrease since it has no more severe category to shift from.

      So do the number of deaths go down?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    91. Re:Bike helmet? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 2

      "Assumptions are: drivers don't suddenly start being dickheads around you because you're wearing a helmet,"
      Your assumption is incorrect, study has shown that drivers drive worse around cyclists that wear helmets, so much so that it could well be safer not to wear one. The theory is that the safer you look, the more risk drivers take around you.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    92. Re:Bike helmet? by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      7) Helmet can interfere with turning to look for vehicles thus making it easier to miss something. More modern helmet designs have helped, but if people are going with the cheapest helmet available, it probably isn't the most usable thing around.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    93. Re:Bike helmet? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > 2. If you want drivers to give you space, do your best to look and act like an incompetent idiot.
      > Note: this works for motor vehicle operators as well.

      This. I don't think people really often appreciate what information they use when driving. Just this morning I was thinking about this on my commute as someone pulled over without signalling. There was an awkward moment where it wasn't clear whether she was avoiding something in the road, or she was distracted/drunk.

      It also is the opposite of the first thing my father taught me about riding in the street which was, you shouldn't ride in the street unless you can ride in a straight line, because swerving around distracts drivers.

      I notice it all the time, I slow down and give a lot more space to someone riding slowly swerving back and forth a little than I do to a cyclist who is booking down the road in a straight line. Likewise, I grew up on a main road (longest road in one of the most denesly populated cities in the country) I remember the first few times a city bus blew by me at 3 feet; its a little harrowing the first few times...but you get used to it.

      In any case, it is a lot more than just whether a person wears a helmet, watch the line their wheels follow, some people really do just swerve back and forth like a shit-faced driver.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    94. Re:Bike helmet? by gwolf · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the not needed course on logic fallacies. I know why I had the accident: Because I was a newbie (as I said, this happened several years ago), and I didn't account for the sight block that a street sign imposed on a car driver. She didn't expect me. Thankfully, she was just starting to move, and the accident was a very minor one.

      I know the helmet saved my face — Not with 100% certainty, but quite probably. I also know my then-girlfriend had a much, much smaller accident while not wearing a helmet (she fell by herself at roughly half the speed I was going, because of irregular pavement), and did scratch her head. No, no permanent scars, but a nasty bruise and some scratches that took some weeks to properly heal.

      I am active in many local cyclist groups. I know many people who don't wear a helmet out of choice, but I don't know anybody who says an accident's outcome was better because they weren't wearing one.

    95. Re:Bike helmet? by gwolf · · Score: 1

      ...And yes, after reading the link you sent: More than a cycling proselytizer (which I am), I am a safe cycling proselytizer. Using the road as regular traffic, not running over red lights, not riding on sidewalks, not riding to close to parked cars, not riding against the lane's direction, and a very large etcetera. Wearing a helmet by itself, I agree with bicyclesafe, will not help much if I am a daredevil. But being cautious and wearing a helmet is much better.

    96. Re:Bike helmet? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      The whole helmet debate is a big red herring., the real problemb in most countries is poor driving and poor cycling infrastructure, most cyclists are woefully unaware of good cycling practices re door zone, shoulder checking, when to take the Lane etc.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    97. Re:Bike helmet? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So what we really need is some kind of transparent helmet, or helmet that just looks like a hair-do, so drivers think you're an idiot who isn't wearing a helmet when in fact you are.

    98. Re:Bike helmet? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      I do have quite a lot of sympathy for the view that there are circumstances where a fall is so unlikely that a helmet is a waste of time -- cycling in light traffic, with warm dry weather and no recklessness.

      I disagree strongly, partly because my own accident didn't involve traffic, bad weather or recklessness. (There will always be people who disagree about "recklessness", I suppose -- one definition of "reckless riding" is "failing to ride in a way that avoids accidents". I find that annoyingly tautological.)

      I finally bought a comfortable helmet, and since it's comfortable I always wear it. It's easier to do that than to evaluate the conditions every morning.

      That's what I did, too. I also don't have a high-maintenance hairstyle.

    99. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The research only supports one assertion about increased injuries caused by helmets, and that is a marginal increase in neck injuries from the helmet catching on the roadway surface as you go sliding along.

      There was a researcher who showed that when he was wearing a helmet, car drivers passed much closer than they did when he wasn't. You could extrapolate that there might be more collisions from that.

    100. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never wear a bicycle helmet, but I always wear seatbelts.

    101. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If wearing a helmet didn't make any sense, why do all professional cyclists wear them?

      All professional cyclists wear helmets every time they get on a bike? Really?

    102. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Statistics show one of the leading causes of fatalities is not wearing a helmet.

      I would think "running into things" and "things running into you" would be far more dangerous than "not wearing a helmet". In fact, I'm pretty sure that "not wearing a helmet" has never been the cause of a fatality.

    103. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also ignore the fact that it's hard to get to 150 km/h with most transmissions. If you're going 50 km/h and you suddenly need to go really fast to avoid an accident, most vehicles won't be able to make the 100 km/h jump that quickly.

    104. Re:Bike helmet? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      The point isn't about safety* (motorcycle helmets make bicycle helmets look like toys) but about getting to the root of the problem which many ignore or just outright conflate.

      1. To argue for an ideology without having the honesty to list all of that's strengths and weaknesses AND also list the polar opposite point of view's strengths and weaknesses AS WELL is just trading one form of ignorance for another. Proselytizing one point of view without also listing ALL the pro's and con's is cargo-cult thinking.

      An intelligent person is able to analyze all the reasons they think they "need" a helmet (even if they don't agree with them) and understand the tradeoffs they are making. i.e. For every argument about why X is needed/good, there are at least 2 other ideals that are also compromised along the way. There is a cliche for a reason: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

      2. It is about having and building proactive awareness (aka mediation) vs reactive symptoms; the latter tends to encourages sloppy thinking, a false sense of security, fear-based thinking, undermine personal choice, and (counterintuitively!?!?) tends to have higher risks. (Glad to see it wasn't in your case. Experience can be a tough teacher.)

      That is what I am arguing for; not some delusional ideology taken to an extreme that ignores all the issues. I am neither for nor against bike laws; every person should decide for themselves what level of truth they wish to live. The greatest fallacy that exists is: "Thinking One Man's Truth Applies To Everyone ."

      * For every person arguing that we need "laws" to "protect" us I would argue that is a myopic view. The safety argument is partially bullshit else pedestrians and drivers would be required to wear helmets too. Oh wait ...

      TEDxCopenhagen - Mikael Colville-Andersen - Why We Shouldn't Bike with a Helmet
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY

    105. Re:Bike helmet? by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 1

      That incredibly naive calculation only adds up if cycling was for some reason the only physical activity a human could undertake.
      Which as you might know, is not the case and anyone giving up cycling because of the helmets can just switch to any other physical activity.

    106. Re:Bike helmet? by bob_super · · Score: 1

      It comes as part of the protection package which includes the penis being shrunk and also retracted inside, and a pair of ribcage protectors.
      You had to order it at the factory, and they keep installing them with some kind of recurrent leakage defect.

      But in case you're hesitating, don't forget it also allows you to turn most people without the package into babbling morons under your control.

    107. Re:Bike helmet? by bob_super · · Score: 1

      My take on it:
      Don't wear a helmet, you're automatically considered an organ donor.

      Because if you're going to potentially turn minor injuries into major ones by not protecting your brain, thus adding to the burden of society to try to save your sorry ass, it should be fair that we use your remains to save others when you exceed the survivability threshold.

    108. Re:Bike helmet? by weilawei · · Score: 1

      Been smacked in the head with a car door, been backed into, crashed into a concrete block, flipped over many times, superman'd a couple times, nearly run off the road by a sherrif's van, and quite a few other incidents. Okay, full disclosure: I used to race (bicycles) competitively. But you know what's funny is that all the major accidents I've been in happened on the street--not at a race--where helmets aren't mandatory for adults here. The key factor in my not winding up more seriously injured (okay, I've snapped my collarbone, DURING a race) in most of these was paying attention. Luck plays a role, but not as large a role as being aware of your surroundings at all times. I was taught to always assume the people around you will do the stupidest possible thing and it's YOUR responsibility to avoid getting hit. I don't wear a helmet (used to during races, a requirement), not saying that should apply to everyone, but a helmet is not a necessary instrument to survive. It makes it easier for people who disregard their obligation to pay attention to survive. The people I've seen get seriously injured during cycling? Lack of attention or recklessness is the #1 cause. Going too fast on ice? Bad idea. Assuming you'll win vs a car, even if the law is on your side? Bad idea. Knowing what your skill level is and acting accordingly, while always maintaining 360 degree awareness? Good idea.

      Cue the flames about how I'm clearly a moron.

    109. Re:Bike helmet? by weilawei · · Score: 1

      I (a former competitive cyclist) have been in many bicycle accidents. Never muffed up a helmet. My instinct when crashing forward is to duck and roll (harder to do when clipped in, that's how I snapped my collarbone during a race. Hit a mud patch, front wheel stuck, bike rotated around it, and slammed my head into the ground. But, I also wouldn't dive into a mud patch like that outside of a race...). The head is protected, at the cost of anything else being damaged. Arms up around the head. I've skinned everything else, but I've only smacked my head once (outside a race), and that was from slamming into a concrete barrier at night, going 20 MPH. It had been placed across a trail I frequented, and there was no warning about the new presence of this object. That one did injure my face (lots of stitches and some dental work), but a helmet wouldn't have done a damn thing--nothing covered by a helmet was so much as nicked. The bike was junk though...

    110. Re:Bike helmet? by weilawei · · Score: 1

      Amendment, I've been smacked in the head TWICE outside of a race. Had a guy open a car door right into my handlebars on the way home from work one night. Bike tipped up, edge of the car door banged me right down the middle of the face. Helmet wouldn't have helped much, if any. It'd be better to have protection for the things you actually injure during a crash (I've skinned my hands and arms I don't even know how many times...).

    111. Re:Bike helmet? by weilawei · · Score: 2

      I HAVE gone down at 25+ MPH, being a former competitive cyclist. I've also smacked my head and face off stuff, and I've got the ugly mug (stitches and dental work and scars) to prove it. And you know what? The primary cause of crashing is: lack of attention/recklessness. There have been virtually no situations in my lifetime where being more observant/less reckless would not have prevented the crash. I've yet to mangle a helmet, but I've sure crashed a lot. The real point of impact in most crashes, at reasonable speeds, on a bicycle, is your hands and elbows, not your head. I've also seen a guy wearing a helmet go off the side of a course; I've seen a guy slide under a guardrail. Both wore helmets. I think the guy who slid under the guard rail (40+ MPH downhill, in the rain, at Green Mountain Stage Race) died. I was too busy trying to keep up with the rest of the pack. The other guy, last I recall, he was being backboarded and medevac'd.

      Moral of the story: a helmet does not eliminate your obligation to maintain situational awareness. A helmet will not magically save your life. Prudence and awareness will save your life more often than a helmet.

    112. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying helmets don't protect your head is like saying water isn't wet.

      In the sense that the grandparent poster said neither of those things, sure.

    113. Re:Bike helmet? by weilawei · · Score: 1

      Was skiing off-piste, lost his balance, and crashed. Speed was found to be not an issue, and the gear was also found to be not faulty. Moral of the story: don't push yourself past your limits, and if you do, expect to take the good with the bad. Practice in safe environments and work up to the riskier stuff. I'm a former competitive cyclist, and also a motorcyclist (and cage driver). But while I don't wear a helmet during normal cycling, non-race, you sure as hell won't find me on a motorcycle without a full face helmet.

    114. Re:Bike helmet? by icebike · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it was merely his perception. Forester didn't do any reliable or exhaustive research on this issue. The drivers were as likely responding to the cyclists riding style as anything else. The study is dated, because the majority of cyclist wear helmets these days.

      Drivers can tell when you are a competent cyclist, just by the way you handle the bike on the road. If you weave an wander, they will give you wide berth. If you hold a straight line, take the whole lane when necessary and move left when safe, signal your turns, they are likely to pass you a little closer because they know you won't be doing something stupid.

      Then there are stupid drivers who have no clue, and nothing you do will get them to pay attention.

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    115. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Right, helmets shift it over, and in the past, an accident involving the head was likely going to be fatal. Now those result in brain injury.

      This is nothing at all like the seatbelt debate, where a small number of people are actually injured by the seatbelt when they likely wouldn't have been without it. That one is a weak debate, because of the huge number of lives saved, and the issue of secondary accidents.

      But this one is rank absurdity.

    116. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Well that is good, having a financial interest implies it might be made into a product that you can actually buy.

      Compare to a theoretical academic exercise, which isn't going to protect your head at all.

    117. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      In Oregon, where we passed seatbelt laws by direct vote, the winning issue was secondary crashes. The driver needs to be able to control the vehicle after the initial contact, not to save their own life, but to avoid involving additional people in the accident. And the backseat passengers flying into the front will also be a problem there, so everybody in the car has to wear them.

      In the back of a motorhome there is little danger of landing in the drivers lap, both because of the vehicle type, the low speed of the vehicle, etc., so it is not required there.

      In the case of a cyclist getting squashed, the helmet might save their life; but it isn't going to save anybody else's life, and it isn't likely to reduce the chance of secondary accidents. So while the life-saving nature of helmets has a solid foundation, requiring them doesn't.

    118. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I've been insulting these idiots for decades, and they still keep spouting it off.

      It isn't hard to find somebody who thinks seatbelts are dangerous, murderous devices, and part of a liberal conspiracy. Just ask anybody driving a jacked-up penis truck, where the truck is actually an ugly POS and not a nice new vehicle.

    119. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Injuries others have suffered are not a subject for humor among adults,

      Yes they are, unless the person died, and then only if they died stupidly. Or if they experienced brain damage, and haven't "overcome" the challenges.

    120. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Your doctor doesn't know what he's talking about.

      Yeah, always trust a random anonymous idiot on the internet over a medical doctor.

    121. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Styrofoam will only protect you in low speed collisions

      Oh noes! Maybe somebody will invent something made of a better material. Oh, I dunno, maybe paper.

    122. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Riding over rail tracks at an angle, sounds like the dizziness started before the accident. ;) Glad you're alright, though.

      You might have bonked your head pretty good if you remember it as being the back wheel getting stuck, but you went over the bars. It was probably the front wheel.

    123. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Only if by "qualitatively better science" you mean, wishy-washy nonsense that conflates issues. There is not really even a theoretical scenario where the helmet increases the brain injury of the same accident. As other haves pointed out, they could increase the risk of neck injury... in accidents that would otherwise involve abrading the back of the skull.

      It is easy to come up with scenarios where the helmet doesn't help, but if the science is so "qualitatively better" how come we don't have a single example? Oh, because it is hand-waving and twisted statistics.

      If you mean that the people politically opposed claim to have stronger science than the doctors, I'd say it is probably because the doctors are more cautious in phrasing their claims.

    124. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Here in Oregon, over the last 5-10 years almost everybody has switched to wearing helmets. People only laugh at them until maybe 1/4th are wearing them, then it becomes normal, and then the rate goes up every year as more people notice they don't hate helmets anymore, and think about if they want it... for the first time. And the answer is often yes. I live next to an off-street bike path, and it is mostly poor people who aren't wearing them.

    125. Re: Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Here you can rent bicycles and they always have helmets available either for free or as an additional rental.

      I'm curious, what contagious disease is spread by bike helmets? (*spoiler: none)

    126. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Yes, always be aware in a door zone. It is the drivers responsibility to make sure it is clear before opening their door, so don't be shy; be mentally prepared in advance to lift the leg on the same side as the door, and take most of the impact on your leg. Don't worry if your foot might land on the hand opening the door; your job is to reduce your own injury; his job is to check before he opens the door. Also lean towards the car, so your weight stays centered and you're not deflected into a traffic lane. If you do it right, the door hinge will take most of the force.

      Don't try this at high speeds, in that case you only have seconds to decide on your last words.

    127. Re: Bike helmet? by Chryana · · Score: 1

      I didn't make the hygiene concern up. As for diseases caught from wearing a helmet, I would be tempted to say lice, but I could be wrong.

    128. Re:Bike helmet? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      No, avoid the doorzone, don't cycle in it at all, I could well be dead right now if I cycled in the door zone - I had some driver fling his door open whilst a bus was coming the other direction up the road, the door just missed my handlebars.

      Watch this and tell me you have any time to react when someone opens the door at the last moment.
      http://youtu.be/CudJvSbS2aY
      Skip to 1:05

      Why endanger your life? - stay out of the doorzone and show this video to anyone who cycles because I'm sick of people cycling in the door zone and confusing drivers as to the correct place a cyclist should be cycling - I end up getting harassed for staying safe because of them.

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    129. Re:Bike helmet? by zxsqkty · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then how would you scratch them?

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    130. Re:Bike helmet? by spitzak · · Score: 1

      I was required to wear a helmet while taking a track driving course, but was driving my own car and it did not have any of these other safety features. So somebody felt the helmet alone was worth it even without the 6-point harness, etc.

    131. Re: Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Could be. ;)

      In most places, it isn't a common risk. Nor is transmission associated with things like trying on hats at the clothing store. Also, in the rare event somebody does get lice, it is not associated with any significant health risks. It is a minor annoyance, easily dealt with.

    132. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Your advice translates basically to, don't ride a bike in a city, even in bike lanes. Or ride on the sidewalk and get squashed by people starting out of driveways, in order to avoid the much safer designated riding locations.

    133. Re:Bike helmet? by russotto · · Score: 1

      If wearing a helmet didn't make any sense, why do all professional cyclists wear them?

      Because it's required by the rules of the sport. Where the rules allow the helmets to be removed (e.g. an alpine ascent), the cyclists remove them.

    134. Re:Bike helmet? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      There was no other way than riding over the track at an angle. It was a narrow road with cars parked in two rows - fucking bastards - and the light rail track in the centre. And no, it was the back wheel. Unfortunately the tire had the same width as this cavity in the rail. The back wheel slipped into it, stuck, and since the bike decelerated immediately (I had only half a second of forewarning when I felt the rear wheel skidding which I used to unclip the pedals) I have been thrown off the bike by inertia.

      Hurt myself pretty hard with bruises on bruises all over. Limped for about two months afterwards.

      --
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    135. Re:Bike helmet? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Watch the video.

      I ride around 8,000 - 9,000 miles a year through London's roads, and I avoid the door-zone and I don't cycle on the 'sidewalk' - that's illegal here.

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    136. Re:Bike helmet? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Bike lanes? The idiots who wasted public money painting those on the roads should be put in stocks. Cycle correctly - not where some idiot who knows nothing about cycling says you should.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pillory-stocks.jpg

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_zone

      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/jul/24/cyclists-threat-parked-cars

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    137. Re:Bike helmet? by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      Because it's required by the rules of the sport. Where the rules allow the helmets to be removed (e.g. an alpine ascent), the cyclists remove them.

      That doesn't rule out the possibility that the sport only allows the helmets to be removed in cases where the risk of a serious collision is much lower (e.g. an ascent, like you mentioned, where the speed is much lower).

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    138. Re:Bike helmet? by The_Noid · · Score: 1

      If you're going 30MPH I'd advice you to wear a helmet too, but most people (http://www.verkeersnet.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/amsterdam.jpg) are not going anywhere near 30 MPH, or even 20 KmPH.

      If you're going 30MPH you're probably also doing it on a bike like this: http://www.online-fahrrad.de/Bilder/Mountainbike-Cube-Reaction.jpg or this: http://www.bikester.nl/fileadmin/mediapool/bknl/racefiets.jpg and not a nice classic city bike like this: http://static.batavus.com/bikes/HT140021/batavus/Blockbuster-7.jpg

      The bike type has a huge impact on safety and I expect the chance of head injuries and thus the effect of wearing a helmet to also change significantly with bicycle type.

    139. Re:Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

      As a kid before cycle helmets really existed (the reactionary right was still getting over *seatbelts*...) I bounced my head off all sorts of things and it hurt lots. Sometimes I came away concussed, and sometimes I ended up in hospital. This was when I had most of my accidents involving other people, other road users and stuff. I was a kid, so it was all a big laugh.

      These days, having returned to cycling after a lengthy seperation, I always wear an appropriate helmet. I'm bigger and stronger than I used to be and have much better bikes - so tend to hit things harder when I get it wrong because I'm doing stuff I'd never have tried back then. Even so though, mundane stuff like trying to take an icy or muddy corner on a riverside path on the way to work a bit fast or at the wrong angle can (has) resulted in me bouncing my head (HARD) off very solid iron railings. Helmet meant no real damage done. I've had so many occasions in the last few years where I've been glad of a helmet - and none of them on a road in traffic (touches wood).

      Helmets are not a magical force field and are not going to protect you from all injuries - but the ones they do will keep you walking, seeing and generally alive. Generally if you find yourself in one of the 30+ MPH RTA's the anti-helmet brigade love to point at, you've got so many other problems as the cyclist in the car sandwich already that you're in pretty big schtum, but the initial impact is not what the helmet will be helpful for in this situation - it will be the bit where you are bouncing your head on the tarmac after your body has done the decelerating into tarmac and smashing bones bit. This last part of the crash is surprisingly problematic.

      The people I ride with jokingly talk about 'XC hats' and 'full face hats', but almost none of them would be prepared to ride with unhelmeted companions - basically because we've all had helmet destroying accidents and some of us have to put the pieces of unhelmetted cyclists back together on Sunday evenings - and nobody enjoys that sort of thing.

      I'm all for keeping them as personal choice - but as a personal choice that means accepting the injury risk also - and therefore allowing discrimination based on helmet wearing status in any accident/injury claims...

    140. Re: Bike helmet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One saved me when I flipped in a collision. Hard to see them hurting. Like seat belts, probably you'll never need it, though.

    141. Re:Bike helmet? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      the assumption that car-cyclist collisions are the only significant kind of accident.

      My last taste of cobblestones was because of a car coming round a 90degree corner (at the exit of a bridge) on my side of the road as I was approaching the bridge, forcing me into unseated cobbles and subsequently into a drystone dyke.

      No actual contact with the car, who didn't even stop.

      (And yes, I was using lights, as was the car. And no, I wasn't wearing a helmet - but since I was doing about walking pace when my pedals finally caught in the wall and toppled me, that's not terribly relevant. I don't wear a helmet when I'm walking either.)

      --
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    142. Re:Bike helmet? by telchine · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'd be all for some (rational) TV or poster ads that said something like "cycling without a helmet? You're X times more likely to get a head injury"

      The problem with that is that X = 0

      Studies have shown that pedestrians are about as likely to get a head injury as cyclists.

      Campaigns like the one you're up for suggest that cycling is dangerous - It isn't. Cyclists live longer than car drivers. TV and poster ads should be getting that message across if anything.

    143. Re:Bike helmet? by samwichse · · Score: 1

      This.

      You'll be safer in an accident, but your brain will cook into a nice thin gruel first.

    144. Re:Bike helmet? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That's basically a pile of derp with no substance to your comment at all. You threw out some insults, but there is nothing in your comment that conveys information or even opinion other than in regards to the people who made it so I have a place to ride without getting run off the road.

      Perhaps you're simply ignorant to the civic choices available in different places.

      Or, judging from your user id, you're just not weened yet.

    145. Re:Bike helmet? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Fuck you too

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  2. The best bike helmets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are made from air and common sense.

    1. Re:The best bike helmets by PIBM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sometimes it`s not your fault.

    2. Re:The best bike helmets by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Your mistake is in using common sense to respond to AC.

      Remember, common sense is not that common...

    3. Re:The best bike helmets by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Those with it only show up statistically because those without it get removed from the population faster than those with it.

      --
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    4. Re:The best bike helmets by asylumx · · Score: 1

      The best bike helmets are made from air and common sense.

      You must have a terrible bike helmet, then.

    5. Re:The best bike helmets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Common sense includes taking into account potential errors made by others.

    6. Re:The best bike helmets by PIBM · · Score: 1

      Waiting at a red light in the bicycle line is usually seen as common sense rather than going straight through. Still, there are drivers who aren't looking in front of them (texting? getting something off the floor ? looking at that chick in the car next to them which lane was empty ?) and when they notice that previous drivers stopped at the red light they swirve toward (one of) the side.

      I would have a hard time blaming my aunt which suffered such an accident; if it wasn't for her helmet she would not have made it through, and she barely did. Broken legs and arms and bruises all over her (truck climbed onto her). There's a limit to the potential errors that you have to take into account, else you'd have to go live quite far because of all the potentials of errors by others. Don't drink water you haven't purified yourself, don't eat any food you haven't fully prepared yourself (unsafe meat!!), and most of all stay away from any aircraft flight plan, it could crash on you!

    7. Re:The best bike helmets by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      Spoken like a true motorist...

  3. Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by dbIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd say it's the article at fault not the designer, but the reason polystyrene foam is already used in bike helmets is exactly the same - "tiny little airbags throughout the helmet".
    I wonder how this compares? Does this absorb more energy?

    1. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam?

      I like bubble wrap better (for reasons not related tp bike helmets).
      Besides, I assume "a soft corrugated cartilage" collected from the interstice between woodpeckers' skull and beak would do the job better.

      (ducks)

    2. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by arielCo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If I had to guess I'd say polystyrene is slower to compress and returns some of the energy (elastic deformation), while cardboard tends to deform permanently, absorbing all of the energy. As for being "disposable", I've read that conventional helmets should be discarded after an impact; these make sure you do.

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    3. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 4, Informative

      if you bother to read the article, you would learn it absorbs far more of energy. They state that a 15mph crash can subject the brain to 220G of force wearing a polystyrene helmet. Using the paper helmet, the test units brain-analogue was subjected to a mere 70G of force. This was tested in Europe, where regulations state for a helmet to be approved, the brain may not be subjected to more than 300G of force at 15mph. So a significant improvement over traditional polystyrene helmets, in terms of energy absorption and dissipation. I posit that this is most likely due to the fact that paper does not recoil back to its original form as much as the polystyrene.

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    4. Re: Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Woodpeckers)

    5. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by TheloniousToady · · Score: 2

      Maybe the NFL should consider this for the longstanding concussion problem that's been getting a lot of publicity lately. They could afford to throw them away as often as needed.

    6. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Yes, FTA, this absorbs 4 times more energy in a typical collision than a styrofoam helmet.

    7. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by citizenr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Helmets are the _source_ of NFL concussion problem, not the solution.
      http://www.pelhamrugby.com/2012/05/08/concussions-american-football-versus-rugby/

      --
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    8. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by impossiblefork · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Aluminium honeycomb is used as a single-use shock absorber and deforms very evenly and I imagine that the same thing is true of this paper stuff. It's fairly impressive, but is best seen in an image: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Single-use_crushable_aluminium_honeycomb_shock_absorber.jpg.

    9. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by TheloniousToady · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine concussions going down if the players left off their helmets. However, if you mean that the rules should be changed so that helmets are no longer needed, (American) Football would be a fundamentally different game. Or, as the article you cite neatly puts it, "Football is a collision sport, while rugby is a contact sport." I think people who prefer Rugby rules already have a very nice game that uses them.

    10. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Shhh... don't ruin his new business with facts. The UK economy has enough trouble getting going as is.

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    11. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      But for this to work, won't you need to bicycle with a hard pecker all the time?

      (thank yew, thank yew, I'm here all week, don't forget to tip the waitresses)

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    12. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam?

      I like bubble wrap better (for reasons not related tp bike helmets). Besides, I assume "a soft corrugated cartilage" collected from the interstice between woodpeckers' skull and beak would do the job better.

      (ducks)

      Yeah - the problem with the bubble wrap helmets is that people got addicted to popping the bubbles in the wrap so the helmets didn't work. It's that "I know I shouldn't be doing this but i can't stop" thing.

      --
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    13. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only in rugby, also in Australian Rules Football (which is as much full contact as North American Football...only played in shorts and tees as opposed to the Padding and armor in U.S. football). Yeah, players get stuff like knee, foot, ankle and back injuries (also often loose a few front teeth), but concussions are comparatively rare because players tend not to lead with their heads. Like wise in Soccer (or Football to most of the world).

    14. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They state that a 15mph crash can subject the brain to 220G of force wearing a polystyrene helmet. Using the paper helmet, the test units brain-analogue was subjected to a mere 70G of force. This was tested in Europe, where regulations state for a helmet to be approved, the brain may not be subjected to more than 300G of force at 15mph.

      15 mph = 6.7 m/s. 220 Gs = 220*9.81 m/s^2 = 2158 m/s^2. To generate 220 Gs decelerating from 6.7 ms, you need to decelerate in 6.7 / 2158 = 0.003 sec.

      At a constant deceleration, that's a distance of v^2 = 2ad, or d = v^2 / 2a = (6.7)^2 / (2*220*9.81) = 0.0104 meters = 1 cm.

      To generate 70 Gs, you need to decelerate in 6.7 m/s / (70*9.81 m/s^2) = 0.0098 sec.

      At a constant deceleration, that's d = v^2 / 2a = (6.7)^2 / (2*70*9.81) = 0.0327 meters = 3.3 cm.

      I posit that this is most likely due to the fact that paper does not recoil back to its original form as much as the polystyrene.

      The speed at which polystyrene springs back is so slow you almost need time lapse photography to watch it (crush a styrofoam coffee cup and see how long it takes to uncrush itself). The decreased G forces are entirely due to the distance the structure collapses. Polystyrene is a stiffer, closed-cell material with limited deformation due to the cells resisting popping (indeed, breakage is usually due to adjacent cells shearing apart, rather than the cells popping). While cardboard is essentially open cell and more likely to collapse its entire thickness.

      That's a double-edged sword though. The cardboard helmet is more likely to be ruined or structurally compromised from lesser impacts, like having the bike fall on top of it while you're transporting it in the back of your truck. Stuff the polystyrene helmet can survive because such impacts do not have sufficient force to pop the cells or shear adjacent cells. The air in the cells just gets compressed more, and springs the cell back to shape once the load is removed. Since the cardboard is open cell, it has to rely entirely upon the paper's ability to spring back to shape to survive such loads intact.

      And (judging from the pictures) if you hit at the wrong angle, you can cause the cardboard to collapse by twisting and falling over rather than crushing, thus greatly reducing its protection. Standardized tests are great in that they're reproducible, but they suck because by always testing in the exact same manner you allow designers to optimize for the test instead of for real-life conditions. i.e. You can improve performance in tested orientations by reducing crash protection in non-tested orientations. The more solid structure of polystyrene allows forces to be better transmitted between cells thus helping even out its crash protection at all orientations. The cardboard helmet looks like it's traded off that uniformity for anisotropic crash protection which peaks in the orientations which are being tested (longitudinal and transverse). A better design would mesh the cardboard into triangles, not squares. Squares are notorious for collapsing without using any of the structural material's innate strength. It's why the most common fiberglass weaves are 0/30/60 degrees, or 0/90 layered at 30 or 45 degree increments so you're not putting all your strength along just 0 and 90 degrees like this cardboard helmet does).

    15. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      They state that a 15mph crash can subject the brain to 220G of force wearing a polystyrene helmet. Using the paper helmet, the test units brain-analogue was subjected to a mere 70G of force. This was tested in Europe, where regulations state for a helmet to be approved, the brain may not be subjected to more than 300G of force at 15mph.

      Those are metric G forces and won't work in the US. :-)

      P.S. Don't use the paper helmet in the rain.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    16. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't imagine concussions going down if the players left off their helmets.

      The idea is that without helmets, players would become much more averse to hitting their heads on things. Just from limited personal experience in high school, with a helmet there wasn't even the slightest concern of hitting your head -- in fact, it was just another weapon.
       
      There's a somewhat analogous situation in MMA, where concussions and head trauma are becoming a concern. There the gov't. sanctioning bodies require padded gloves, which reduces superficial trauma like cuts but results in more concussions and likely more long-term effects on the brain. I remember Dana White (one of the higher-ups at UFC, the biggest MMA org) saying they know from the many years without sanctioning that this is the case and would like it fixed, although he's not someone I'd believe without question.

    17. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by http · · Score: 1

      Your guess is far wide of the mark. The styrofoam in conventional bicycle helmets is designed to collapse once. While the size may not change much, the crush absorption is gone. It is for this reason they are discarded after an impact.

      --
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    18. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by anagama · · Score: 1

      That would be with a dry helmet of course. How much protection will it offer when wet and soggy because of water intrusion through seams in the plastic shell (I presume there is a plastic shell -- if not, talk about a non-starter).

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    19. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by tsa · · Score: 1

      I also wondered why the guy in the article doesn't give any proof that polystyrene is not the best material to make bike helmets of.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    20. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Don't sweat while you're using it either.

    21. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if the helmet weren't so good they wouldn't go head first so much, it would hurt

    22. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take away a boxer's gloves and you'll see them throw a lot less punches from fear of breaking their hands against hard parts of the skull. Give them some protection and they'll throw harder punches more often.

    23. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by pspahn · · Score: 1

      Clearly it was meant to be covered in Silver Tape of the Gods, so not only will it bead that rain right off, but you'll be mackin' so many bitches with that style that hey, who's got time to ride a bike?

      --
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    24. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 1

      I was totally guessing about the spring back, your explanation makes far more sense. As for ruining the helmet, even with polystyrene helmets, it is advised to dispose of the helmet and replace it after a serious crash involving a blow to the helmet, so there is no real difference there. You should email your suggestion about triangle structures vs square to the creator, I think you are on to something there.

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    25. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the biggest problem with helmets, they ONLY PROTECT THE ACTUAL SKULL, but do nothing to prevent the brain from bouncing around inside your skull. This leads to brain swelling, and even hemorrhaging [blood vessel being popped open like zits}...

      There is a difference between your skull being split open or skull fractures, and your brain being slung around inside the skull.

      Yes [since you will give a rhetorical answer] the brain staying in the skull is far better then it leaking out from a split skull, but they do little to prevent the skull from becoming fractured, based on the application.. IE, I have seen hockey players careers ended because there heads with helmets hitting the ice causing skull fractures, and bicycle riders as well, and I have seen them receive traumatic brain injuries without any fractures, or any visible damage to there skulls or even facial bones on x-rays, MRI's, CATS.

      If they made the outer shell to absorb the blow, this would be much easier on the brain taking the impact. However that energy would still go thru you neck and would causing the brain to still absorb the impact at some point. Obviously on a bicycle unless you crash at 30+MPH regularly, this really isn't a problem.

      Its not going to matter what they line the helmets with, there have been great advances in materials to absorb energy, but the fact remains no matter how much "dummy testing" they do your still seeing brain injuries in human subjects. Again a case of where "simulated scientific results" cannot be relied upon.

       

    26. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by dbIII · · Score: 2

      but do nothing to prevent the brain from bouncing around inside your skull

      Actually that's the entire point of the collapsable foam and this thing - to absorb a lot of the impact that is going to make your brain bounce inside the skull. We've gone a long way from the hard shell helmets of a few years ago.

      Bike helmets are directly analogous to bullet proof vests and that's probably a much easier way to understand it. The impact is spread out and absorbed in compressing the protective material and/or destroying it, so not much gets to the body.

      However that energy would still go thru you neck

      No. A lot of energy goes into destroying the helmet instead of your head, so a lot gets consumed before it gets anywhere near your neck.

      Again a case of where "simulated scientific results" cannot be relied upon

      So then you change the tests if they don't model reality well enough.

      It looks like you are describing the situation of twenty years ago of hard shell helmets instead of the last decade and a bit.

    27. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by asylumx · · Score: 1

      It's an interesting conundrum in football -- they need the helmets to protect their heads from contact with other hard objects in the game. Largely, those hard objects are other helmets. This is very different from other helmet-wearing sports, such as Hockey where you have the puck, ice, and walls to deal with; or baseball where the batter and catcher wear a helmet but nobody else does.

    28. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      The idea is that without helmets, players would become much more averse to hitting their heads on things

      Assuming NFL players have sufficient brains to start with.

    29. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just have to nitpick the use of the word "decelerate" since you use it so frequently. Acceleration is a vector quantity and negative acceleration is still acceleration.

    30. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      No, the US players are the source of the NFL concussion problem.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    31. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      EPS foam was the basis of bike helmets in the 80s (and even 70s). And the cause of the main problem with helmets back then - not that you looked like an idiot, but that wrapping your head in insulating foam when doing physical activity in the summer is not pleasant.

    32. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Cardboard can be treated to make it water resistant all the way through.

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    33. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People trying to head-butt each other for possession of a leather-clad air bladder is the __source__ of the NFL concussion problem. If the players would just say "chill out, dudes, I don't need your balls in my hands that badly," there would be many fewer injuries.

    34. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 1

      With regards to minor impacts damaging the helmet, like your "getting banged around in the trunk example" such that bike owner might not realise it and fail to discard it. Surely this could be accounted for in the design? Some outer stiffer sheathing of maybe thin layer of plastic and polystyrene to shield the cardboard from minor impacts?

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    35. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recall Ditka saying that the best way to reduce concussions would be to remove the facemasks from helmets.

    36. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      Cardboard can be treated to make it water resistant all the way through.

      But then you have to test the treated cardboard for resiliency and crush-rate...

      --
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    37. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Football helmets cause concussions the same way helmets in WWII caused increased wounded soldier rates.

      IE, by preventing death from hazardous conditions. If football was played with the same rules but no helmets, players would die.

      Instead of removing the helmets, change the rules and keep the helmets.

    38. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      (judging from the pictures) if you hit at the wrong angle, you can cause the cardboard to collapse by twisting and falling over rather than crushing

      I'd (very possibly wrongly) assumed that a honeycomb structure would be three dimensional to address this risk?

    39. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      I'd (very possibly wrongly) assumed that a honeycomb structure would be three dimensional to address this risk?

      The problem with square structures is that they're made of four structural members which can collapse into a diamond when subject to an off-axis load. The structural members themselves remain intact, it's the joint connecting them which has failed allowing the members to change the angle at which they meet. You then have a structural failure without any of the individual members having failed (been crushed or bent). If you've ever folded a box flat, that's what you're doing. You straighten out the flaps so you're just left with four flat pieces of cardboard arranged in a square, then you collapse the square into a diamond until it's flat.

      Triangles are better because you can't change the angle between the members in a triangle without also crushing one of the members. i.e. The only way to have a structural failure in a triangle is if at least one of the individual members fails.

      Honeycombs are a great way to increase the structural rigidity of a single member against torsion. But by arranging them in squares which can collapse without challenging the rigidity of a single member, you're wasting their strength.

    40. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true.... playing football and hitting your head is the source of a concussion problem.
      A helmet is an attempt to solve the issue of people being stupid, thinking they are invincible
      with a helmet and some padding on and hitting their head.

    41. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Polystyrene has the benefit of being easy to manufacture ( dump beads in a mold and heat). It could be that by making polystyrene helmets with larger air pockets would improve the efficiency just as well as would switching to paper. Also the spherical air pocket patterns in PS would maintain the omnidirectional impact resistance.

    42. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Because they weren't going to test the cardboard helmet anyway?

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    43. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you did not read the article. Concussions are becoming a problem because the helmets make the players feel safe to impact with more force and less care. The better the helmets, the more safe they feel. A similar behavior happens with truck and SUV drivers compared to small cars.

    44. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck you... "read the article"

      What kind of cunt are you?

    45. Re:Tiny little airbags like the polystyrene foam? by dizdar · · Score: 1

      Another rule of rugby that helps keep from getting knocked silly is that no player in the air going after the ball can be hit. You must wait for them to reach the ground.

  4. don't ride in the rain by Todd+Palin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Paper had one characteristic that might make it less than suitable for use in rain. One foam helmet might be cheaper in the long run than a bunch of soggy paper helmets.

    1. Re:don't ride in the rain by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 5, Informative

      Although the article didn't make it explicit, I'm assuming that the helmet gets a coat of resin or something to water-proof it. Speaking for myself, I don't need rain to get a helmet wet -- I don't have great strength, endurance, or aerobic capacity, but I sweat like a champ.

    2. Re:don't ride in the rain by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Paper had one characteristic that might make it less than suitable for use in rain. One foam helmet might be cheaper in the long run than a bunch of soggy paper helmets.

      Try some guinit helmets

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:don't ride in the rain by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Just add slight coating of durable paraffin wax.

    4. Re:don't ride in the rain by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because you know... you can't apply a waterproof coating. We don't use paper to wrap up all kinds of wet things, like milk, or orange juice.

    5. Re:don't ride in the rain by camperdave · · Score: 1

      It's really a pity we can't coat the paper helmets in some sort of spray on, or shrink wrapped plastic, or maybe dip them in paint, or something, because these paper helmets seem like such a good idea. Also, it's too bad we can't corrugate plastic.

      --
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    6. Re:don't ride in the rain by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Just add slight coating of durable paraffin wax.

      Ya, but then I can't ride through fire to dry off.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    7. Re:don't ride in the rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dumbest +5 I've seen all day.

    8. Re:don't ride in the rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Think of it as a carton of orange juice that gets handled roughly, with various bumps and scrapes, for several years. And if it leaks, instead of getting juice over everything, you get a small amount of moisture leaking in to invisibly compromise the integrity of the contents, potentially causing it to fail when you actually need it.

      This may be a solved or solveable problem, but I expect that they'll do (or have done) some testing of the possible failure modes before these helmets are used in safety-critical problems.

  5. I'm personally way more interested in Hövding by Picardo85 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The name is Hövding and it's an "Airbag bicycle helmet". It's developed by some team in Skåne, Sweden. Looks really cool.

  6. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's also freaking expensive.

  7. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That looks pretty cool but what happens if you fall face first?

    http://www.hovding.com/content/images/startpage/03_what_is_hovding/girl-helmet.jpg

  8. Sadly, Not the Worst Patent Troll Ever by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    "It is well documented our enterprise patented and manufactured paper made from bicycle helmets."_tm.

    --
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    Ernest Hemingway

  9. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by hawguy · · Score: 1

    It's also freaking expensive.

    So are car airbags, but you don't notice the expense because it's hidden in the $30,000 purchase price of the car.

  10. Rain by RobertinXinyang · · Score: 1

    One word says it all, "rain."

    1. Re:Rain by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2

      A second word negates your first word.
      Waterproofing.

    2. Re:Rain by RobertinXinyang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I actually thought about that. However, there are very few cost effective methods of waterproofing paper that work. Think of the waterproof corrugated paper packaging you have seen. It is fine for short exposure; but, it does not hold up to prolonged immersion and exposure.

      A bike helmet will sit in puddles; it will spend hours in downpours. If you waterproof for the exposure conditions that bicycle helmets see, at some point it ceases to be paper.

    3. Re:Rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Water resistance: acrylic dip.
      Abrasion resistance: vac-formed outer shell.
      So it's not really all paper.... who cares?

    4. Re:Rain by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Stick it in a plastic bag and it should have all the same benefits plus being waterproof. I'm sure the manufacturers could come up with a way that lets air through if they wanted that.

    5. Re:Rain by anagama · · Score: 1

      Let's say it has a plastic shell, and you put a paper bag over it, but there is a subtle crack in a seam and the paper degrades due to moisture. Then you crash. Then you're screwed, lulled into a sense of security by your safety precautions.

      If they can make a helmet out of paper corrugated or designed in some way to absorb impacts, they could do the same thing with inherently waterproof materials -- maybe even corrugate styrofoam or plastic sheeting.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    6. Re:Rain by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      I actually thought about that. However, there are very few cost effective methods of waterproofing paper that work

      Tetrapacks seem to work quite well at keeping liquids in for a reasonable cost. If it can keep liquid in, it can surely keep liquid out too.

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    7. Re:Rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Let's say your current polystyrene helmet was flawed and is full of hairline cracks, but has enough structural integrity to hold together.

      Let's say it was made of straw, and built in the shape of a man.

    8. Re:Rain by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that this is a non-issue, they can make the cardboard with chemicals that cause it to be fully waterproof proof all the way through.

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    9. Re:Rain by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      I manage to avoid putting my bike helmet in puddles, and I also avoid biking in downpours. The worst problem I'm going to have is sweat. A tremendous factor in utility is price - I buy a $120 or $140 helmet every three years; if this thing costs $40 I wouldn't mind buying a new one each year.

    10. Re:Rain by samwichse · · Score: 1

      I work in greenhouses.

      You can buy Zipset plant bands... they're made from bleach board (basically card stock) that's been coated.

      The lightweight ones, you can grow a plant in for 9-12 months without losing structural integrity. The heavy weight ones are rated at 12-18 months. That's 9-12 months minimum with continuous contact with water (your plant's soil should never dry completely unless you're growing succulents, and you wouldn't be growing them in Zipsets).

      It's a solved problem.

  11. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by master5o1 · · Score: 1

    Same question is applied to traditional helmets. But I suppose you're talking about the time between helmet reacting and fully deployed airbag.

    --
    signature is pants
  12. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by hawguy · · Score: 1

    That looks pretty cool but what happens if you fall face first?

    Looks like it still protects your forehead, even if your face ultimately hits the ground:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Oud3iGXWY

    (The face down crash starts around 3:30 (there's a couple slow-motion replays after the full speed crash)

  13. Read between the lines by craighansen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think you have to read between the lines carefully to find the real value in the article. I think it can be equally valid to build a bicycle helmet from corrugated or expanded cardboard as is is with styrofoam + shell. (OK, styrofoam is a trademart for Expanded Polystyrene.) As others have commented, cardboard is suseptible to damage from moisture, so it has to be sealed against it. In addition, I'm not convinced that the cardboard design is cheaper to manufacture than the styrofoam designs.

    To me, the relevant signal is the reduction in maximum G force. The article suggests that the design limit is 300G, and conventional helmets achieve 225G - while his design gets to 70G. Presumably, the mechanism for doing that is to absorb the impact energy over a significant period of time before transmitting the forces to the wearer. Given the velocity of the collision, this means that the helment has to be built with a greater distance between the outside and inside of the helment than existing designs. If people are willing to wear thicker helmets (appropriately designed), such helmets could be reasonably expected to perform better - I'd think comparable designs could be easily built from the styrofoam + shell technology that's commonly in use.

    Finally, the inventor says he was inspired by observing that his helmet was broken in the collision. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE MEANT TO DO. In absorbing the forces of the collision, the helmet is permanently deformed. If your head is saved from destruction by a helment - buy a new helment to replace it.

    1. Re:Read between the lines by craighansen · · Score: 1

      Please sed -e 's/helment/helmet/g' to the above.

    2. Re:Read between the lines by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      Why would you assume that absorbing energy more slowly implies that it's thicker? Simply absorbing more energy per unit time would do this too (as it would rapidly slow the deceleration, and hence extend the period of movement).

    3. Re:Read between the lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Energy equals force times distance. Absorbing more energy per unit time requires exerting more force (and given an object of constant mass, more acceleration). Quickly and gently stopping an object at high speed is physically impossible. You can either stop the object more slowly over a longer distance or stop it quickly with great force. For instance, if an object was accelerated at 1 G over a distance of 10 meters, it can be stopped with an equal deceleration over an equal distance or 10G of deceleration over 1 meter.

    4. Re:Read between the lines by Floyd-ATC · · Score: 1

      +1 Indeed, all helmets are meant to be discarded after an accident, including $2000 MC helmets. Even if they do not visibly crack.

      --
      Time flies when you don't know what you're doing
    5. Re:Read between the lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Starting at a fixed head-to-pavement speed, you can't get lower g-forces (acceleration) over a shorter distance. The helmet has to slow your head down from collision speed to standstill within its thickness --- the longer the travel distance, the gentler the deceleration can be. "Rapidly slowing the deceleration" [sic] is what kills you, not what you want the helmet to increase.

    6. Re:Read between the lines by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Score: -1 Not Sanity Checked

      If this was true, then wrapping your head in a steel bell of the same thickness as a styrofoam helmet would be just as effective.

    7. Re:Read between the lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Existing foam helmets already compress just about as far as possible in a collision, down to a quite thin layer (unlike steel). There's no extra room to get gentler deceleration in a shorter depth. For a gentler deceleration, you need both greater thickness, and good mechanisms for dissipating forces as the helmet collapses (so you decelerate mainly during the helmet-collapse stage of the impact, instead of a skull-collapse stage shortly following). Your post is -1, not physics or engineering checked.

    8. Re:Read between the lines by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

      I don't think we have enough data to really make a decision...what happens to the cardboard lid under increasingly harder impacts? (And what's the data for bike helmets?) In a bike crash, there may be more than one impact (head could hit the ground several times) - once the cardboard is compressed, how does it behave? How does it handle under a shearing blow? Could it be torn off one's head?

      Not saying there's no place for this, it may be the future of helmets, but i think a lot of research has gone into existing bike helmets, and i don't know if this inventor is really considering many, or most of the factors, other than a single impact...

    9. Re:Read between the lines by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that the force that the head experiences while the helmet is collapsing is the same as the force the head is experiencing after the helmet has collapsed.

      In the case of the styrofoam helmet (actual numbers made up on the spot), it's entirely plausible that while the helmet absorbs some of the impact, the head experiences 20g acceleration. However, because the helmet does not absorb as much force, the head then hits the "immovable" object rather harder and experiences the 230g cited in the article.

      In the case of the cardboard helmet, however, the head may experience 70g for the entire time that the helmet is collapsing, slowing it much more in the same distance. Now, at it's lower velocity, when it finally hits the immovable object, it only experiences the 70g cited in the article.

      More absorbant *does not* require more distance, it simply requires that the absorbing material exerts a greater force.

      Another reason why you failed to sanity check –if your assertion was true, a car's crumple zone's construction would not matter at all, as anything that collapsed the same distance would work equally well. The sad fact though is that we can not simply attach some pillows in their place (which likely would in fact collapse more than the crumple zones), because said pillows do not exert as large a force, and hence do not absorb as much of the impact.

  14. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by craighansen · · Score: 1

    That's the purpose of the extension of the helmet forward over the forehead.

  15. What about high speed crashes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article says the paper helmet results in lower G force (i.e. the head decelerates slower) compared to a polystyrene helmet in a 15mph crash. In other words the paper helmet isn't as stiff and acts like a soft cushion. That's great for low speed and low energy crashes, but what about high speed crashes where you need a stiff material that can absorb the energy?
    Plenty of cyclists (myself included) could double that speed on the flat, and easily do 50mph down a hill.

    1. Re:What about high speed crashes? by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      In such high speed crashes, you would die wearing a styrofoam helmet anyway, so it's rather a non-issue.

    2. Re:What about high speed crashes? by gnoshi · · Score: 1

      Apparently a similar problem exists for motorcycle helmets, which led to things like the ATR-1 helmets being built. They basically have two different ways of absorbing force, one for low-energy impact and one for high-energy impact.

  16. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Snowcrash as fuck. I want one.

  17. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks really cool.

    I never thought "really cool" would translate to "fucking hilarious".

    Well done.

  18. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The name is Hövding and it's an "Airbag bicycle helmet". It's developed by some team in Skåne, Sweden. Looks really cool.

    You and I have very different ideas of what looks cool.

  19. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by camperdave · · Score: 1

    It's also freaking expensive.

    So are car airbags, but you don't notice the expense because it's hidden in the $30,000 purchase price of the car.

    So... we should increase the price of bicycles?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  20. Overlooking the obvious? by nixkuroi · · Score: 5, Funny

    After RTFA, it seems that the most obvious material to make the helmet from is woodpecker skulls. Didn't anyone else get that?

    1. Re:Overlooking the obvious? by PaddyM · · Score: 1

      The article? I thought it was obvious from the summary, but the solution: separating our forehead from the rest of our skull with woodpecker cartilage, did not seem like a real option. Maybe these were the prosthetic foreheads everyone was talking about in that They Might Be Giants song?

  21. Cardboard works great by hubie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Corrugated cardboard has been used for decades under high-altitude scientific balloon payloads to absorb the impact of landing from a parachute descent. You don't have to put too many of them under several thousand pounds of experiment and gondola. Here is a (not so good) picture of one example. The cardboard provides a very nice low-gee impact.

  22. Instead of making helmets compulsory by rossdee · · Score: 0

    why not just ban bikes from the roads, since cyclists can still suffer broken legs and arms if they are run over by motor vehicles.

    1. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by DeathElk · · Score: 2

      Many urban planners are discussing the opposite - ban inefficient, private use vehicles from cities and provide better cycling infrastructure. Wins all round. Except for lazy people.

    2. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by rossdee · · Score: 1

      "Many urban planners are discussing the opposite - ban inefficient, private use vehicles from cities and provide better cycling infrastructure."

      What about during winter, or don't they have that there? 2 wheeled vehicles don't go so good on ice and snow, or when its too cold for ice and snow (like -30)

      "Wins all round. Except for lazy people."

      I walk to work,

    3. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Subterranean railway like they have in bike friendly cities like Montreal?

    4. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by petermgreen · · Score: 2

      Many urban planners are discussing the opposite - ban inefficient, private use vehicles from cities and provide better cycling infrastructure. Wins all round. Except for lazy people.

      I think you are missing quite a few categories of people who would lose.

      1: People who want/need to take more stuff with them when they travel than a bike can reasonablly carry. Plumbers, electricians, builders, many types of service technicians. People going shopping for large items or bulk groceries.
      2: People who need to leave the metropolis and travel to rural areas where public transport sucks and will always suck. Maybe some kind of car club could work for this but the ones i've seen are hellishly expensive.
      3: People who need to travel further than it's practical to bike at hours when public transport is poor or nonexistant.
      4: People trying to travel distances further than it's practical to bike in directions other than the ones fast public transport runs in.
      5: People in a hurry, while there are a handful of cities that are so congested that cars are slower than bikes or public transport they are by far the exception.

      You could try and run a general car ban with exceptions for people who really needed a vehicle but I think you would find it very hard to do satisfactorily

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    5. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by Admiral_Grinder · · Score: 2

      I have ridden mine several times this winter through the snow on the roads going uphill. Worked just fine with minimal wheel spin (which happens to be in the same places a car would have problems). They make studded tires for ice which do a great job as well.

      The one day I had to drive my car for errands is the only day this winter I froze my butt off all the way home in it.

    6. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by Admiral_Grinder · · Score: 1

      Planners are not going for full bans. They are just trying to improve the transportation options in the city for all users while making people feel like they belong in the city. While some DIY types will transport all they need by bikes (including whole house moves, fridge and all), but nobody is calling for a complete ban of service trucks.

      Just like debates we have about commuter cars and public transportation. If you need a private vehicle, or something bigger, many times it is cheaper to rent as needed than to own one full time. I'm sure taxi's will still be around as well. Congestion is the result of too many vehicles taking up space that they don't need too.

    7. Re:Instead of making helmets compulsory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those people can suck it. They had their turn, and now everything is fucked.

  23. Old news, but good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surabhi's design has been around for a few years now, and has been recently been integrated into an actual product: the Abus Kranium AKS 1. While it appears to perform splendidly for impacts directly to the top of the head, impacts to the side or rear (which are significantly more common) are quite average. You can see some raw test data from prototypes at http://www.helmets.org/kraniumresearch.pdf

    Its good to see some innovation going on in the helmet space. Alternative materials like this, dual-density "conehead" liners, and MIPS tech are all interesting ideas for reducing injury. Now if only consumers could get more information about a particular helmet's crash performance beyond the basic CPSC "prevents your head from cracking open" certification. I'd love to be able to compare based on the peak acceleration or dwell time data that is already measured!

    1. Re:Old news, but good news by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Surabhi's design has been around for a few years now, and has been recently been integrated into an actual product: the Abus Kranium AKS 1.

      Looks like it has a fatal flaw or two.

      It's no great trick to make a helmet which will absorb impact. The trick is to do it without too much weight and, unless you only ride in cold weather, without overheating your head. In general, the more you pay for a helmet, the less helmet and more hole you get. That thing is covered with a solid shell. No venting. It's a portable oven. It's also 535g -- about 1.2 pounds. It's a brick (and probably will contribute to neck injuries as a result).

      Giro's cheapest MTB helmet has some vents and is 410g. Move up to a helmet you might actually wear in the heat, you've got almost as much vent as helmet and you're down to 316g. Go to one which costs as much as this one -- 80 pounds sterling -- and you're under 300g and have more holes than helmet.

      If it was just unventilated it might still have its niche, but it's just too heavy.

    2. Re:Old news, but good news by Njovich · · Score: 1

      You know what, pay me 80 pounds and I'll give you no helmet at all: apparently it's scientifically proven to produce less head injuries than your 'more hole than helmet' ones and it provides great ventilation.

  24. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by camperdave · · Score: 2

    That looks pretty cool but what happens if you fall face first?

    http://www.hovding.com/content/images/startpage/03_what_is_hovding/girl-helmet.jpg

    Looking at the videos, I don't see why they don't airbag the whole head. What do you need to see when you're crashing? And even if you do need to see, why not extend nose and cheek pieces all the way around? Or just make a section of the airbag with clear plastic instead of white.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  25. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by hawguy · · Score: 1

    It's also freaking expensive.

    So are car airbags, but you don't notice the expense because it's hidden in the $30,000 purchase price of the car.

    So... we should increase the price of bicycles?

    Either that, or those that want an airbag for their heads can use the money they saved by buying a $1,000 bike instead of a $30,000 car and use it to buy a $700 biking airbag.

  26. Better helmet design? Excellent. by DeathElk · · Score: 1

    I'm all for a better designed bicycle helmet, and I'd use it in some circumstances. But I'm vehemently against the government mandating that I must wear one.

    1. Re:Better helmet design? Excellent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many governments do mandate the wearing of bike helmets. Most of them keep it in a gray zone; they look the other way and the police are not pressed hard to enforce it.

      Australia and New Zealand are exceptions ....the police are given carte-blanche to treat you like law-breaking scum at all times!

      An example case from Australia:
      It is 3 o'clock in the morning on a hot summers night; you can't sleep; the house is hot and muggy. You choose to grab your bike --without helmet-- and go 400 yards up the street to the 24-hour convenience store to buy a cold can of Coke and relax and get some fresh air. .....NOPE, you are a filthy law-breaker who deserves to be screamed at and patronized like the law-breaking scum that you are and the police will treat you as such; no arguments allowed; no exceptions; no common sense logic; no love for cycling culture; and you will be bludgeoned with a $180 fine and you will be given a patronizing aggressive lecture on your total stupidity........your relaxing peaceful nighttime sojourn has turned into a battlefield!

    2. Re:Better helmet design? Excellent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why not take the 10 seconds or so it takes to put on a helmet then?
      Is 400 yards like 400 houses, their front yards or something, seems an awfully long way to me in such heat, just grab a coldie from the fridge.

    3. Re:Better helmet design? Excellent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm all for a better designed bicycle helmet, and I'd use it in some circumstances. But I'm vehemently against the government mandating that I must wear one.

      Are you also against the government having safety standards for cars? If not, your logic is badly flawed because of the legal implications. If you're on a bike and get into a collision with a car and the driver is deemed to be the guilty party, the amount his insurance company has to pay because of your injuries can be an order of magnitude different depending on whether you were wearing a helmet or not. In society whoever accidentally causes damage to someone else is made to compensate for that but we also don't allow people to intentionally make themselves super easily injured just to get more compensation. By today's safety standards not wearing a helmet whilst bike riding might be considered to be such an act.

      Note: I believe that what I've said above is correct in most modern jurisdictions and I certainly stand by my opinion why it is correct to mandate helmets but I'm of course more aware of the system in my country, Finland. Here, bicycle helmets are required by law but for now there's no penalty for not wearing one. However, if you're in an accident and don't wear one it's "tough shit" even if the motorist is at fault.

    4. Re:Better helmet design? Excellent. by Whatsisname · · Score: 1

      In the US, more than 1/10th of traffic fatalities are pedestrians. Clearly, helmets should be mandatory for walking then, too.

    5. Re:Better helmet design? Excellent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before mandating helmets per your straw man argument, the following additional questions must be considered:

      - What's the ratio of pedestrians per cyclist?

      - A typical traffic accident that a pedestrian gets into is different from a typical cyclist accident. Would helmets on pedestrians have an equivalent protecting effect?

      - Which party is typically at fault? How have the pedestrians that have died in traffic acted? Cyclists are usually a little bit more focused on surrounding traffic than pedestrians rushing across the street, kids chasing a ball etc.

  27. Re:Tampons! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Provided the bra is full and in use, I'm fine with that.

  28. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Why not extend the cheek guards as well (think Kenny from South Park)? Or why bother with an open face area at all?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  29. Crumple zone by 2helix · · Score: 0

    A crumple zone for your melon makes perfect sense.

  30. used in kid car seats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A number of high-end kid car seats use crushable aluminum "crumple zones" to reduce the forces felt by the occupant in a crash.

  31. Get these overly critical people a dictionary by dbIII · · Score: 1

    "G" is not a measure of force OR energy but instead translated into units of acceleration. It helps to answer a question with something related before criticising the person asking it.

    The important thing in this case is the energy absorbed - which can be derived from the relationship between force and displacement and not just one of those. So it's related to the area under the force versus displacement curve (or directly found from the area under the stress strain curve). Or you could just hit it with a big hammer and see how far it bounces back then convert that to joules. Both work.

    1. Re:Get these overly critical people a dictionary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not correct.
      The important bit here is the maximum amount of force the brain is subject to while the helmet is absorbing the energy.

      If the acceleration profile of the impact was a 100% inelastic collision occurring within a microsecond.... the former person inside wouldn't care about the fact that the helmet just absorbed the energy: they'd be dead.
      The same thing spread out over a millisecond is 3 orders of magnitude better.

    2. Re:Get these overly critical people a dictionary by dbIII · · Score: 0

      The important bit, as with bulletproof vests, IS the amount of energy absorbed and NOT transmitted. That TRANSLATES into lower acceleration and lower force on the other side of the material. Time doesn't come into it so much because it has to be designed for a large fast impact that is going to propagate at the speed of sound in the material anyway.

    3. Re:Get these overly critical people a dictionary by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Time does come into it. Your brain is not solidly set in your head. When your skull stops moving, it takes time for your brain to stop moving; if the difference is too great then the brain bounces off the hard bits and gets damaged.

      Making the transition from 'fast' to 'stopped' take a little longer gives the internal cushioning within the skull more time to do its thing and prevent the contents getting damaged.

    4. Re:Get these overly critical people a dictionary by dbIII · · Score: 0

      You can't realisticly spread the event out over time with tens or hundreds of millimetres of material to work with so that leaves removing enough energy (eg. by getting the material to deform a lot) to solve the problem.
      Thus my statement about time not coming into it.
      A fast impact is going to stay fast so reducing the amplitude to the point where brains will not bounce inside skulls gets the job done.

  32. Why lie about this? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The opposite is most definitely the case. The dramatic increase of course should not be taken as having anything at all to do with helmet laws, unlike your silly strawman lie that people are expected to believe if they are far away.

    1. Re:Why lie about this? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      But we're Americans, it would be un-patriotic to check New Zealand media sources. Or that thar liberal media. The only source you can really trust are regular joes calling in to talk shows on AM radio. They'll give you the straight dope on New Zealand cycling.

      Reminds me of the Canadian studies showing some treatment reducing heart disease, and the American Heart Association guy saying, well, there is no proof you'd get this result in American hearts.

      I know we have more freedom than most places... we must, look how stupid my neighbors are free to be, and they're not even ashamed of it.

  33. other helmets by Kevin+Fishburne · · Score: 1

    Try going to war, now or 2000 years ago, without a helmet. It's better to have one, even if it's made of paper or similar. Same goes for protecting other body parts such as the torso or legs. Even cloth or leather armor will help you. The difference between wearing cotton jeans, leather pants, or no pants at all will become readily apparent as you slide across asphalt. Fuck the studies, just think about the physics for a moment. Failing that, use your imagination.

    --
    Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
  34. Did you reply to the wrong post? by dbIII · · Score: 0

    What's wrong with encouraging people to do more biking

    Where did I write that it was wrong to do that?

    I know it's fashionable to build and burn strawmen here and you are doing only a very mild version of that but it's still dishonest.

    1. Re:Did you reply to the wrong post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He may have read

      cheapskate public bicycle sharing systems

      as belittling the entire idea as cheap instead of referring to a specific (cheap) implementation.

      Of course, writing about poisoning milk for no reason and churches somehow keeping capitalism in check are actual reasons to mod you down.

    2. Re:Did you reply to the wrong post? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The context was government cycle programs where they changed the helmet laws to save money on the cycle programs. So a cheapskate cycle program.
      Now do you get the connection - governments starting businesses changing safety rules to benefit their business.

  35. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not extend the cheek guards as well (think Kenny from South Park)? Or why bother with an open face area at all?

    Because preventing you from seeing in an accident is bad? If you're flying over the handle bar, you can lessen the impact better if you see where exactly to put your hands in front of you.

  36. Kranium by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

    This is already for sale as the Abus Kranium It is a rather expensive helmet, as it costs about E100 while a normal EPS helmet costs E50. However it is also a lot better, so when you bike a bit faster than 24 km/h (15 mph) it is still useful.
    Over time the helmets will get cheaper if everyone buys them (economies of scale) and they are proven better.

    --
    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    1. Re:Kranium by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      I don't think this one is useful if you go faster - there are no air holes so your head will fry after a while.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Kranium by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Nope, my head doesn't get too warm in it. I have averages of 30 km/h and regular peaks of 48 km/h. I do, however, use a non standard bike: a quest. This helps me keeping speed with ease.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    3. Re:Kranium by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Well, I achieve almost the same speeds with a full suspension mountain bike I use for my commute. I most certainly will fry in this ;-)

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    4. Re:Kranium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do, however, use a non standard bike: a quest.

      You don't use a bike at all. That's a fucking trike.

  37. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder how many paper bicycle helmets you can buy for the price of a 400 Euro airbag helmet?

    http://www.fahrrad.de/hoevding-airbag-helm-ueberzug-raven-obscure-348334.html

  38. I always knew it by cayce · · Score: 1

    And this is why I always wear a donkey piñata over my head when I ride my bicycle.

  39. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah it looks so cool it is almost impossible to distinguish it from looking shit.

  40. safety vs design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are bicycle helmets tested to Snell specs? I suspect not, even though Snell seems to be what they ought to be using.

    While we're on the subject of design, why not eliminate race design from street bikes? The "flat back" approach might matter to a racer looking to reduce air resistance to an absolute minimum, but for a typical cyclist the upright position has comfort and safety going for it, at the cost of a slight increase in effort. The race inspired position means you lead with your head, not too smart on the road.

  41. Fight now and fight hard! by Kaitiff · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm a motorcyclist, not a bicyclist (currently). For years non-motorcyclists enforced a law on us requiring the use of a helmet. This is not simply a safety issue and shouldn't even get to an argument of 'for' or 'against', it's a freedom of choice issue. As an adult you have the right to choose, or you should have. As a caveat, I'm not totally against helmet use or the safety they bring and I wear a helmet on my motorcycle probably at least 60-80% of them time depending. I have friends whose lives were saved wearing a helmet and I have friends that died from the use of one through rotational torque to his neck and spine. The issue at hand is not about the relative safety or danger of helmet use; it should be about CHOICE.

    Choice is a freedom, and once lost I can attest to how difficult it is to regain. Allow people to make their own INFORMED choices, do not legislate it. Regardless on which side of this issue you come down on we should all be able to agree that forcing 'good behavior' on a full grown adult is wrong.

    --
    If I sound stupid, it's not me talking....
    1. Re:Fight now and fight hard! by cellocgw · · Score: 2

      And has been pointed out time and time again: Your freedom of choice ends when you demand someone else (hospital, insurance company) pay for treating your injuries should you survive a helmetless crash.

      Get over yourself, already.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    2. Re:Fight now and fight hard! by drkoemans · · Score: 2

      The issue is that your choice is not in isolation. I'd love for you to have the choice to wear a helmet or not but the reality is post-accident resources will be on your survival and additional insurance liabilities related to your death. That is a cost the rest of us have to bear. Obviously this is not unique to helmets, we see this same conversation in the healthcare space with regards to smoking and obesity as well. The question being "why should society cover the added costs of high risk individuals?" I fall on the side of individual choice but to assume your actions (and mine as well) don't have an impact on everyone else is ignorant at best. I believe the statistics have spoken and you are at greater risk of injury without a helmet though I don't have a citation to back that up.

    3. Re:Fight now and fight hard! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then it should be the insurance companies saying, in writing, in the contract to take on liability "If you don't wear a helmet, and you're involved in a crash, we won't pay out"

      BTW, your logic does nothing but put us on a slippery slope. What about people that buy cars without the utmost state of the art in crash protection? Soon enough it'll turn into: What about people who don't put on their mandatory 3 layers of bubble wrap before they leave the house in the morning?

      Your freedom of choice ends when you demand someone else pay for treating your injuries, after all!

  42. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Admiral_Grinder · · Score: 1

    Like all things well engineered or not, they are likely to go off when you don't need them too. Like riding over rails in traffic. A malfunction shouldn't blind you.

  43. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The front of your face has more bits to break off by rapid deployment of an airbag (those things aren't gentle and squishy --- they've got to move fast, and absorb a lot of force). Also, it's probably a reinforced, woven synthetic material, not a white plastic sheet --- you can't make flexible, strong see-through materials. And you probably don't want an airbag popping in front of your eyes in many crash situations, where you'll need to increase your chances of survival by, e.g., rolling out of traffic instead of into it.

  44. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately their size range is rather limited.

  45. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You cushion the landing with your arms.

  46. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because people like breathing?

  47. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Razalhague · · Score: 1

    Looking at the videos, I don't see why they don't airbag the whole head.

    Because certain death from suffocation is worse than potential death from head trauma.

  48. bike helmets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can anyone focus on the darned subject?

  49. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No thanks. "Looks really cool" is purely a matter of opinion. To me, it looks hotter than a fuck.

    While exerting yourself, I would think that you would want to keep the blood entering your brain cool, rather than heating it up.

  50. Honeycomb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not small. No, no, no.

  51. Speed limiters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would anyone need to make such a specious argument to justify not wanting a compulsory governor on her car? The simplest argument is, "It's my car, and I choose to be the device that limits its speed." You see, a car is a privately owned possession that has use on public roads, but its use is not limited to public roads.

    1. Re:Speed limiters by GauteL · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone need to make such a specious argument to justify not wanting a compulsory governor on her car? The simplest argument is, "It's my car, and I choose to be the device that limits its speed." You see, a car is a privately owned possession that has use on public roads, but its use is not limited to public roads.

      For 99% of all people that is also a specious argument, since their cars are never used on private roads where it is possible to break the speed limit. Their venture onto private ground is limited to their driveway and private carparks, neither of which could remotely sustain a 150 km/t speed.

      Also there is nothing wrong with the public saying that you are fine having a non-speed-limited car (we won't interfere with you privately owned possession), but we won't allow you to drive on our public roads, because that is actually a privilege and not a right and we get (through democracy) get to chose who drives on it. We already refuse plenty of people/cars.

  52. Great idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until it got wet from biking in the rain.

  53. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Because people like breathing?

    You mean all those people in full face motorcycle helmets are suffocating to death?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  54. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Suffocation? How? These things aren't air-tight, and they only remain inflated for a few seconds. Besides, if you read further, I was suggesting having the nose and cheek areas protected. ie, something more like this, but scaled for a person's head. The way it's designed now, it looks like post inflation esthetics played more of a role than preventing head trauma.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  55. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

    It's notable that all their crash test videos only use a stationary bike falling over of being rear-ended. Such a system would be useless against real world situations where your head could be sliding across the ground at 20+ MPH.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
  56. Re:I'm personally way more interested in Hövd by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

    It is really cool, but oh man I'd hate to see what happens if it triggers while 'misaligned'.

    --
    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  57. blancmange by rpstrong · · Score: 1

    He definitely had me on board when he mentioned "blancmange "

  58. Air is better than paper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/invisible-bicycle-helmet-airbag-head-2D11599972

    I would love to see this helmet here become DOT certified.

  59. Ends justify the means? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    So vehement, readers should note, that he lied about decreasing rates of cycling in Australia after helmet laws were imposed when instead the reality is a cycling boom.
    He also did not have the courage to admit it when I pointed that out in a reply to one of his other posts.