Google Buys Home Automation Company Nest

JDG1980 writes "Google just announced that they will be purchasing Nest, a company best known for their 'smart' thermostats and smoke detectors, for $3.2 billion in cash. What will this mean for Nest devices going forward — greater integration with Android, perhaps?"

Comments

Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

What they'll do is track when you're home, what temperature you like your house, whether you're cold at night, etc, and then use it to advertise at you. Isn't that what Google does with everything?

Re:Track your every move

[Tablizer]

Google Buys Clippy:

"I see you are using your heater often. Would you like to purchase soft wool blankets from one of our highly-rated sponsors?"

Re:Track your every move

[DaHat]

You forgot "requiring Google+ integration for managing your NEST".

Re:Track your every move

[ackthpt]

What they'll do is track when you're home, what temperature you like your house, whether you're cold at night, etc, and then use it to advertise at you. Isn't that what Google does with everything?

"???" "The toast is always burnt, stove/oven rarely used, but microwave runs for 10 minutes every day about 9 PM and all wash loads are done in Whites Cycle" "???"

"Bachelor - send him a bunch of singles site link ads."

Re:Track your every move

[msauve]

New Google advertising jingle:

We see you when you're sleeping
we know when you're awake
we'll tell you what you want to buy
so you better buy stuff for Google's sake

Re:Track your every move

[lgw]

Slashdot 2015: Google announces end of life for Nest products, citing low advertising revenue from the platform.

Oh, well, one gone, but three more will pop up hoping for that multi-billion buyout.

Re:Track your every move

[phrostie]

Remember when it wasn't Google's fault that their street view cars intercepted your emails?

Nest uses your home network.
now it won't matter if you're on gmail or not.

Re:Track your every move

[Anubis IV]

Pretty much. To quote the relevant part:

Will Nest customer data be shared with Google?

Our privacy policy clearly limits the use of customer information to providing and improving Nest’s products and services. We’ve always taken privacy seriously and this will not change.

If they had plans to keep Nest's data away from Google after the acquisition, they'd have said it plainly as they have with everything else they say. The fact that they aren't doing that here makes it pretty clear what their intent is.

I have a Nest thermostat and have loved it, but I'm actually kinda glad I ran into some financial issues that led to my cancelling my pre-order for Protect smoke/CO detector for my entire house. I definitely won't be buying them now, and I'll be seriously considering whether or not I keep my thermostat.

Re:Track your every move

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

CENTRAL SERVICES!

We do the work, You do the pleasure!

Google resents NSA intrusion, because it horns in on their turf...

Re:Track your every move

[fyngyrz]

I've been avoiding buying a Nest because of reports of sensitivity to RFI, RF, and ESD, and reports of really unfriendly failure modes: failure to heat when really cold; failure to shut off heating when away; these seem very serious to me. I really like the idea, but it seems the execution might leave a bit to be desired as yet.

I don't put ultimate faith in Amazon reviewers by any means (tho I r one, lol), but this is worth looking over

Re:Track your every move

[Pirogoeth]

http://i.imgur.com/xmBV4n0.jpg

Re:Track your every move

[grub]

Ha! Well done!

Re:Track your every move

[tlhIngan]

If they had plans to keep Nest's data away from Google after the acquisition, they'd have said it plainly as they have with everything else they say. The fact that they aren't doing that here makes it pretty clear what their intent is.

Well, all it takes is for Google to "unify" the privacy policy of Nest with the rest of the Google privacy policy.

And yes, they probably give you an opt-out, in which case your Nest becomes a dumb thermostat because access via the (now-defunct iOS version) smartphone apps and web access require accepting G+ and the new privacy policy.

(And note to Apple, Google and Microsoft - please, can you stop buying up companies that make apps and discontinuing the competing versions? I know it's probably good for business, but c'mon now. There's nothing wrong with seeing Google and Microsoft in the Apple App Store, Apple and Microsoft in Google Play and Apple and Google in Microsoft Store...).

Re:Track your every move

[Richy_T]

There's a strong possibility you (and others) think you're joking.

Many a true word spoken in jest.

Re:Track your every move

[tlhIngan]

Slashdot 2015: Google announces end of life for Nest products, citing low advertising revenue from the platform.

And yet, Nest has a nice screen on it (not touch). Which can display ads while the thermostat is otherwise idle... what possible use could the homeover have to seeing the set temperature all day? Why not just use that idle screen space to display ads?

Re:Track your every move

[maxwell demon]

Yeah, and thanks to the cloud integration which Google will inevitably have done, this will mean all the devices just won't work any more. Oops, your home is dead, sorry.

Re:Track your every move

[Richy_T]

From comparative reading, it appears the HP one has the upper hand. It's still a bit rich for my blood but I may bite at some point.

Re:Track your every move

[Richy_T]

Honeywell.

Who have a lot of thermostat experience so makes sense.

Re:Track your every move

[icebike]

Nor would the under $20 fully programmable, been around since dirt, standard as the day is long, conventional wall thermostat.

Come on for pete sake, turning on the heat when its cold is the job of a thermostat. They've been doing it since the 30s, and became programmable since the late 70s. Don't act so impressed that your thermostat actually worked.

You've paid in excess of 15 times what you needed to pay for program-ability, only to have it be totally dependent on the internet!

There's one born every minute.

Re:Track your every move

[ShanghaiBill]

We have a Nest and love it.

I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up to heaven.

Advanced computers can be very useful tools, but almost everything they're employed to do is just technical masturbation or the result of effective marketing causing people to disengage brain.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

The nest is not totally dependent on the internet. You can walk up to it at any time and adjust the temperature.

Re:Track your every move

[jittles]

We have a Nest and love it.

I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."

lock the thermostat and adjust it via your phone or computer. Then she can't do a thing.

Re:Track your every move

[mattack2]

I think Nests are ridiculously overpriced too... But one cool thing is being able to turn on/off via phone app.. Can any of the cheap ones do that? I admittedly don't even program mine, I just literally turn it on and off.. (first winter in my new house, getting used to how often I turn it on and how high.. USUALLY I turn it off entirely at night..)

Re:Track your every move

[WaffleMonster]

lock the thermostat and adjust it via your phone or computer. Then she can't do a thing.

LOL keep dreaming.

Re:Track your every move

[mattack2]

Wait, do you mean "defunct iOS version" because of your theoretical opt out or because of Android?

If the latter, Google still does tons of iOS apps, and IIRC, there were news articles showing that Google itself makes more money from its iOS apps than its own Android apps/system (yes, I know it's not entirely free.. if companies want to use the Google store, etc., they have to pay).

Re:Track your every move

[roarkarchitect]

Nor would the under $20 fully programmable, been around since dirt, standard as the day is long, conventional wall thermostat.

Come on for pete sake, turning on the heat when its cold is the job of a thermostat. They've been doing it since the 30s, and became programmable since the late 70s. Don't act so impressed that your thermostat actually worked.

You've paid in excess of 15 times what you needed to pay for program-ability, only to have it be totally dependent on the internet!

There's one born every minute.

Actually, I have a time base setback thermostat circa 1930's.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

What they'll do is track when you're home

Since at least the early 90's alarm systems (home intrusion detectors) have had a microphone built into the keypad, it's to listen in to verify if the alarm is real (or false), before notifying the appropriate service.

They can be activated at any time when your hooked up to a monitoring service by whoever is on duty at the time. In one of my lives I installed them, the one I used for my home I disabled the microphone (cut the wire).

Fire alarms (smoke detectors) connected to a security system are treated differently than motion detectors or other intrusion devices; they have their own dedicated circuit.

I say this in jest: Google may be cutting out the middle man (the Internet), going straight to the source.

But others may see it differently. I've never heard of the microphone feature being misused, but haven't been following it either

Re:Track your every move

[Chaos Incarnate]

Not just your 15-year-old daughter, per se, but it does support the require a PIN change to make temperature adjustments (or to make temperature adjustments outside a certain range).

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

Nor would the under $20 fully programmable, been around since dirt, standard as the day is long, conventional wall thermostat.

Come on for pete sake, turning on the heat when its cold is the job of a thermostat. They've been doing it since the 30s, and became programmable since the late 70s. Don't act so impressed that your thermostat actually worked.

You've paid in excess of 15 times what you needed to pay for program-ability, only to have it be totally dependent on the internet!

There's one born every minute.

Just because this person is easily impressed doesn't mean he didn't, or people in general don't buy them for the remote monitoring, design, presence sensing, prediction, ease of use, or other features the $20 thermostat obviously lacks. You're also ignoring the whole array of thermostat features Honeywell itself offers well above the $20 mark.

"Programability" is not just a thing you buy with a thermostat or not. It's sold in multiple tiers. The "One Week" you quoted being the lowest end and cannot program for different days. Some only have weekend/weekday settings, and others have daily schedules.

A no-frills 7 day programmable Honeywell thermostat at retail can be around $100, with-frills going up from there, and you'd could have made your point without coming across as a basement dweller that has never been down the thermostat isle at a Home Depot.

Re:Track your every move

[grub]

Sure, they are expensive, but the auto-away feature alone (motion sensor sensing no movement for a set amount of time) has saved us a lot of cash over the past two years. It also knows the outside temperature and learns how long it will take your house to warm up/cool down based on that and adjust its on-times accordingly.

Quite the nice piece of adaptable hardware which has seen our energy usage drop ~15%. Of course it's impossible to say that was all Nest that can take the credit for that.

Re: Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

So you agree but didn't like the way he said it? He nailed it. Thermostats have been programmable for a very long time. I cannot think of a reason to access my thermostat when away from home except for the cool factor.

Re: Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

So do the cheap honey wells

Re:Track your every move

[DigiShaman]

Because most of us would rather not whore out our homes to an indoor mini-billboard.

Re:Track your every move

[Ksevio]

Even with the recent cold snap here when temperatures 'as cold as Mars' our Nest never failed to start the furnace.

My thermostat also did that and it's a rolled up piece of metal that contracts and expands to complete a circuit. No batteries required! I haven't seen a thermostat that "failed to start the furnace" just because it was cold..

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

Any thermostat can have a remote on/off feature.

Phone -> Web server CGI -> soft-relay on PCI card (or use an Arduino board) -> higher voltage relay wired to make/break certain wires between the t-stat and the air handler (usually a "split system" or a "fan powered box").

Wire colors:
Black is ground.
Green is fan on/off.
Red is electric heat on/off. Second stage is usually orange, also on/off.
Yellow is gas heat, can be on/off or analog (4-20mA, 0-10V, or 2-10V).
White is DX (direct expansion) cooling on/off. ("Direct expansion" means that the cooling effect is due to the expansion of compressed liquid refrigerant into gas in the evaporator coil directly mounted in the airflow without any heat exchanger mechanism in between. If you're not running a "chiller" and/or don't know what a chiller is, you probably have DX cooling. This includes pretty much all home air conditioners.)

DX cooling and electric heat should both have an internal interlock (in the unit, not the t-stat) preventing them from running if the fan isn't running. But be careful with cheap residential-grade units, the manufacturer may cut that corner to save money.

You'll probably need a 24VAC transformer (yes, AC, not a DC power supply) to drive the whole thing, which allows you to buy a cheaper t-stat. A small (small is good enough for a home system) 24VAC transformer should run somewhere in the $10-ish range at a supplier like Kele. I also recommend their line of IDEC pluggable relays. They mount nicely to DIN rail.

Re:Track your every move

[mattack2]

Sheesh, that's (1) a lot of work, (2) requires you to leave yet another thing powered in all the time.

(Yes, I think the Arduino is a tiny bit, so that's probably as little as a Nest power wise.)

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

We have a Nest and love it.

I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."

Get an ecobee. You can add a 4 digit code to lock out specific features.

Re:Track your every move

[ShanghaiBill]

I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."

lock the thermostat and adjust it via your phone or computer. Then she can't do a thing.

She probably has a key logger on my computer. But if not, she will just tape an ice pack to the thermostat.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck google. i hope fairy page and his butt buddy sir gay brin die slowly in a fire

Re:Track your every move

[MikeBabcock]

I've never had the problems you cite, but the one that bothers me is that it is run by enviro-hippies who care more about saving energy than comfort.

For instance: the Nest resists very strongly using the second stage of heating on my furnace, which means that in the morning, the house is a full two degrees (Centigrade) cooler than I've set it to be, even though it already "knows" exactly how long it takes to heat the house by 4 degrees in that weather because it insists on staying on stage 1 for an hour.

Re:Track your every move

[MikeBabcock]

Self-programming so easily my grandma can do it? Nest is.
Easy to adjust with a simple exterior knob like my grandma's accustomed to? Nest is.
Automatically turns itself on and off when you're away for the day or not? Nest does.
Will run the fan periodically to keep the house from getting stale even if the AC or furnace isn't required that day? Yup, that too.

Those cheap programmable thermostats are great for people who actually have set schedules and can figure out the programming. Nest is for the other people.

Re:Track your every move

[MikeBabcock]

I don't see why anyone is as paranoid about Google's oversight as they are. This data is all already easily aggregated by IP address by anyone else, and Google at least offers the option to change your tracking tag whenever you want so the advertising engines can't follow you long term.

Re: Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

It costs vastly more to acquire the data from separate sources than, say, NSA buying your information from a central clearinghouse (Google).

Intelligence apparatus outsourced to the private sector - what could possibly go wrong?

Re:Track your every move

[cusco]

Really? Is it one of the type that's powered by a thermocouple heated by the pilot light? We had one like that when my parents bought their first house, but it didn't work well so they replaced it with a regular one a year or two later.

Re:Track your every move

[JonBoy47]

The suggested $20 option also lacks capability for auxiliary heat and multi-speed HVAC. The Nest, as I understand it, advertises compatibility with all extant HVAC systems.

Re:Track your every move

[davester666]

Please watch this short video extolling the virtues of rich Corinthian leather couches before you are permitted to change the temperature.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the OP meant that if you opt-out you have to use an outdated iOS version which your new iPhone may not support. If you want the new iOS version or any other version including web then you have to agreed to Google's unified terms of service.

I was about to buy a nest thermostat, no more.

Re:Track your every move

[necro81]

Phone -> Web server CGI -> soft-relay on PCI card (or use an Arduino board) -> higher voltage relay wired to make/break certain wires between the t-stat and the air handler (usually a "split system" or a "fan powered box")

and you have now eliminated 95% of the world, either because 1) they lack the requisite skillset to pull it off or 2) they recognize that their time has value - it doesn't take many hours of frustration to add up to Nest that "just works".

Re:Track your every move

[cdrudge]

No, we decide to whore out our homes with an indoor larger format billboard. Usually in the 40-60" range but sometimes smaller or even larger. Many people even pay a chunk of change for the opportunity to pay for the ads on said billboard.

Re:Track your every move

[drinkypoo]

The real tragedy is that you could buy modules off the shelf and plug them together to make the same thing, but fully Open Source. Or just buy a tablet with a little GPIO.

It really is nice to have a thermostat you can program from your PC. But there's no reason it should be amazingly expensive.

Re:Track your every move

[AmiMoJo]

I might, if they gave me the hardware for free and I could install AdBlock (a bit of cardboard taped over it).

When are companies going to start paying me for looking at ads? They are willing to pay TV channels and websites to display them, so why not just go directly to the victim, sorry customer and then maybe they wouldn't hate them so much.

Re:Track your every move

[omnichad]

Most of these failure modes come out of not using a common wire in your system (a recent requirement of smart thermostats) and doing what other smart thermostats with rechargeable batteries do - charging by pulsing the heater relay. This fries all the relays in your heating system and sometimes fries the relay board on the Nest.

Re:Track your every move

[omnichad]

They are overpriced, I'll give you that. But it's not hard to make up the cost in energy savings and have it pay for itself. I never bought a programmable thermostat before, because most of them have a lousy UI. This one programs itself if you let it. Or, you can program it from a full computer GUI, putting in different set points for each of the 7 days a week.

The fact that it has a concept of "away" and can tell that no one's home is the source of the big savings. I might set a programmable thermostat with my daily work schedule, but it doesn't know when I decide to leave home on the weekend. It also wouldn't know when I have a vacation day or holiday off, either. I would have to be actually aware of my thermostat to get any savings. And I would have to remember to turn the thermostat on if I were home for whatever reason.

Overall, I decided it's worth it. It's totally dependent on the Internet. On the other hand, this means it can look up the current outdoor humidity via the Internet. If the outdoor humidity is low, then the Nest can turn off the compressor early when running the AC and continue to blow cold air over the condenser coils without worrying about blowing condensation back out of the vents. This is a pretty big energy savings in summer. And it really does work.

Plus, I can't help but like the ability to kick on the AC/heat remotely when we're still on our way home from vacation. We don't have to know when we'll be home, we just have to log in a couple hours before we get there.

I'm not a shill, and I've had a few glitches. I can't say I'm coming out way ahead for cost, but I don't think I'll be coming out behind over the life of the unit.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

Google does not have "direct access" to our servers.

Re: Track your every move

[omnichad]

When you're away from home for the weekend, and you didn't know when you'd get back. You can turn on the AC/Heat a couple hours before you get home. That way, you could go without paying for heating/cooling the entire time you're gone.

Re:Track your every move

[RenderSeven]

"I see that your heat is higher than your furnace is producing. Would you like is to inform the authorities that your are potentially stealing services?"

FTFY

Re:Track your every move

[omnichad]

And it has a small rechargeable battery that can't really run the screen all the time.

Re:Track your every move

[T.E.D.]

end of life for Nest products, citing low advertising revenue from the platform

Advertising on my thermostat? There's a scary thought.

Nest: 72 too cold for you? Here's some ads for Seniors dating sites.

Me: Noooooo! Where's the mind-bleach?

Re:Track your every move

[interkin3tic]

Remember how the e-mails in question were completely unsecured and literally being broadcast out for anyone to read easily? I'm all for treating corporations like evil bastards, but that's a shitty example. If your unencrypted e-mail was picked up by google, that's on you for beaming it out to anyone to pick up.

Stay cynical about google, yes, definitely, but don't bring up bullshit like the street view thing.

Re:Track your every move

[GameMaster]

Yup, even assuming they don't start rolling other sensors into the hardware, you can learn a lot about someone by recording the status of their thermostat.

• * When you set your thermostat to "away" can give them a good idea what your work schedule is; how many people live in the same home; and when you go on vacation (and by extension, what type of job you might work and whether or no you might have kids or whether you might be retired).
• * The temperature you leave your thermostat can give them a good idea if you are actively trying to save money (low setting) or if you are likely to have a medical condition that required you to be on blood thinners (high setting).

I'm sure there are plenty of other things they can figure out too by correlating your thermostat info with other info they know about the person through other channels.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

They know when you are sleeping, they know when you are not.

They know when you've been naughty, they know when you are nice.

They'll know when you are cold, they'll know when you are hot.

You better be good, you better not pout.

For if you do they will cut you out!

Google hells, Google sells,shopping all the day, oh what fun it is to hide in a only company only world.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

Honeywell. Who have a lot of thermostat experience so makes sense.

Experience? Is that short for decade long strangle hold now? I have a hard time buying Honeywell today, because of how much that monopoly stole from me over the years. They have to be competitive now, so there's nothing wrong with them, just hard feelings.

Re:Track your every move

[Anubis IV]

I don't see why anyone is as paranoid about someone rifling through their trash as they are.

Modified it to try and illustrate why I'm uncomfortable about it. The vast majority of the time, I don't expect them to find anything useful, but I'm simply uncomfortable with someone going through my stuff in the way that they do. That they may or may not share it with others afterwards is actually a lesser concern that stems from the one I just said.

This data is all already easily aggregated by IP address by anyone else, and Google at least offers the option to change your tracking tag whenever you want so the advertising engines can't follow you long term.

You're telling me that anyone on the Internet can easily tell whether or not I'm at home? I don't buy it. If they work at it a bit, sure, you could eventually figure it out, but I'm only handing that information on a silver platter to a handful of companies, and they all have a reason for having it (e.g. the Nest thermostat saves me money by turning off my A/C while I'm gone).

Also, you're suggesting that my issue is that they hand the data off to advertising agencies. That's merely one issue I have. My bigger issue here is that they collect so much of my data and that they do so without cause. I'm fine with companies collecting a small subset of data that's relevant to their product that I use and then using it specifically for improving that product experience. I get really uncomfortable when companies start casting a wide net over my data on the promise that they'll do something cool with it later. The vast majority of the time, that cool thing is something completely unrelated that I don't want to be a part of, yet my data was still collected anyway. I get even more annoyed when they make me a part of that completely unrelated cool thing without my permission.

I was a big proponent of Google's up until a few years ago, but they just kept piling on minor violations of privacy, automatic opt-ins to services I didn't want/want to be exposed on, and creepy statements coming from the people at the top, until I reached the point where I am no longer comfortable handing my data to them on a silver platter. This latest Google+/Gmail thing was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm actively looking into self-hosted e-mail options after years of being a happy Gmail user (I was with them since very early beta) and have every intention of scrubbing my life clean of my day-to-day use of Google products, simply because I've come to expect that they'll take whatever data they gather there and use it in places that I neither asked for nor wanted.

Re:Track your every move

[godefroi]

My $99 "radio thermostat" (Mine's the cheaper one from THD) does it. Doesn't need the internet, though it can work over it, when I'm at home my phone talks directly to the thermostat, doesn't need any external servers.

Re:Track your every move

[Bacon Bits]

See? It's easy! Anybody with an electrical engineering degree can do it!

Re: Track your every move

[crontabminusell]

When you're away from home for the weekend, and you didn't know when you'd get back. You can turn on the AC/Heat a couple hours before you get home. That way, you could go without paying for heating/cooling the entire time you're gone.

You could also do what most people have done forever - turn on the heat / AC when you get home and grab a blanket / fan while you're waiting for the house to heat up / cool down. Neat features, yes, but wholly unnecessary.

Re:Track your every move

[fgodfrey]

Plus, Radio Thermostat has a fully published API to program it, query it, operate it, etc. so if you don't like their Ap, or they go belly up, the thing is still useful (assuming you, or some open source project, can write the code). It's a pretty simple Web API with JSON. I think the term is RESTful, but I've never been clear on exactly what makes and API "RESTful" vs. just sending JSON to a URL....

In any event, documentation can be found here: http://www.radiothermostat.com/latestnews.html#advanced

Re: Track your every move

[omnichad]

Do they? I never once remembered to turn down the thermostat when leaving for a trip.

And no - a fan is not enough for me against a humid warm apartment.

Re: Track your every move

[crontabminusell]

Do they? I never once remembered to turn down the thermostat when leaving for a trip.

And no - a fan is not enough for me against a humid warm apartment.

I always have turned down the thermostat when my family leaves the house for an extended period of time, it's just what I was taught to do I guess. As for the AC, I have never lived in an apartment that didn't take about 15 minutes to cool down with a wall or window AC (I've never had an apartment >1000 sq ft either). If you can't deal with it for that long then I suppose that sucks for you, but I think you're the exception and not the rule here.

Re:Track your every move

[icebike]

They are overpriced, I'll give you that. But it's not hard to make up the cost in energy savings and have it pay for itself.

Imagine how quickly you would make up the cost in energy saving with a $20 programmable thermostat. Hell it would even PAY you back $100 per hour for reading the manual, or at least the directions printed behind the flip-down door. Then the UI would not be
a problem. You'd even know about the vacation button.

Re: Track your every move

[omnichad]

Wow - it takes a couple hours to get to the set point in our 2 bedroom apartment and multiple run cycles. It's all on one floor, but has bad windows, and air leaks right around the front door. The AC unit is 30+ years old. I'm in the midwest where space is a little cheaper, but my apt. isn't huge.

I also let the thermostat go up to about 85 when nobody's home. The humidity is high here in the summer, so I'm sure that's a factor.

Re:Track your every move

[omnichad]

$100/hr.? I can assure you that the unit lasts longer than a couple hours. Even if it only saved you $2/mo. over a standard programmable thermostat, that's over $100 in 5 years. But I think with airwave (cutting the AC compressor early while keeping the fan running on low humidity days) and the fact that you don't ever have to remember to hit any buttons, you can easily save more over a standard programmable thermostat.

Re: Track your every move

[crontabminusell]

Wow - it takes a couple hours to get to the set point in our 2 bedroom apartment and multiple run cycles. It's all on one floor, but has bad windows, and air leaks right around the front door. The AC unit is 30+ years old. I'm in the midwest where space is a little cheaper, but my apt. isn't huge.

I also let the thermostat go up to about 85 when nobody's home. The humidity is high here in the summer, so I'm sure that's a factor.

Maybe I just got lucky in the apartments I've rented and the house I own as far as windows, insulation, and HVAC goes. I've spent most of my life in Michigan, so frigid winters and hot sticky summers are the norm for me. Sounds like you have a landlord that either doesn't care or isn't fully aware of how bad it is for you!

Re: Track your every move

[omnichad]

They don't pay the electric bill. As my former landlord (who was also my boss at an unrelated business) once told me, "all landlords are scum."

Re:Track your every move

[knarf]

Well then, keep that thermostat but install another in a supersecret location. Disconnect thermostat number one and let her twiddle it to her heart's content. Problem solved.

Re:Track your every move

[Richy_T]

In what way did they have a monopoly? Genuinely interested.

Re:Track your every move

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked, house alarms were not made by the largest advertising agency on the planet, with a track record of providing free and cheap products paid for based on providing data to them.

Re: Track your every move

[crontabminusell]

Heheh, your former landlord knew what he was talking about. =)

Re:Track your every move

[Anubis IV]

I never said they did. Nor did I use the term "direct access" anywhere, so I'm not sure what phrase of mine you're quoting.

Re:Track your every move

[dizdar]

Also going to need a human factors engineer for developing look and feel ... and a web developer for development of the interface :-P

Re:Track your every move

[bluefoxlucid]

My Nest automatically manages my humidifier. It also automatically begins heating my house 15 minutes before it's programmed to, because it's set to 71 degrees and it takes 15 minutes to get from 62 to 71 (it has tracked this). This is down from 45 minutes, since I insulated. It adjusts for outside temperature. It tracks changes and adjusts for them--new furnace, insulation, whatever. If I adjust the thermostat, it eventually (in about a week) starts making those adjustments automatically--no reprogramming. If I have multi-stage heating and cooling, it'll use the most efficient stages and just start up early to achieve the same goals without using as much energy.

My Nest shows me a report of the past week's furnace run-time history, set temperatures, whether it ran more or less because it was cold or because I was out of the house more often, etc. I can set myself away or adjust the temperature from my phone or Internet. It tells me the current temperature inside, outside, and even tells me the humidity. Every month, I get an energy report based on everything that happens.

It's not exactly a $20 programmable thermostat.

It's a Google aquisition

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously it means that the thermostats will be discontinued in a few years.

Re:It's a Google aquisition

[ackthpt]

Obviously it means that the thermostats will be discontinued in a few years.

Your home will call you to let you know that it is burning down. It might go so far as to ask you if you wish to make a quick hotel reservation.

Re:It's a Google aquisition

[Manfre]

You jest, but that would be a great feature. House burning down, auto call fire department, and also send you info to reserve a hotel room.

Re:It's a Google aquisition

[Em Adespoton]

You jest, but that would be a great feature. House burning down, auto call fire department, and also send you info to reserve a hotel room.

Not only that, but backing up all your data to the cloud before it goes up in smoke would also be useful....

Of course, I can see these sending info to your insurer as well, which would be a mixed blessing.

Re:It's a Google aquisition

[gregmac]

That would beat how long it took them to discontinue selling SageTV by "a few years".

I can reuse old phrase

[Tablizer]

Spam in the can

...about that...

[raydobbs]

I wonder what that means for their unholy pact with Intellectual Ventures that Nest made not that long ago. I swore off ever buying one of their products because of that, and will continue as long as that deal remains in force.

Re:...about that...

[ackthpt]

I wonder what that means for their unholy pact with Intellectual Ventures that Nest made not that long ago. I swore off ever buying one of their products because of that, and will continue as long as that deal remains in force.

You'll cave in when your house tells you what's good for you and like it!

Re:...about that...

[raydobbs]

When a structure starts talking to me in a literal voice telling me about what is good for >me is about the time I visit a doctor about needing some strong anti-crazy medication.... and a realty agent to get rid of the house.

Re:...about that...

[maxwell demon]

You'll cave in when your house tells you what's good for you and g+ it!

FTFY.

Now I need a new thermostat...

[Kenja]

Unless Google WONT be using the temperature I set it at for marketing purposes. I get enough robo-calls about solar, heating, etc as it is.

Re:Now I need a new thermostat...

[kwerle]

Unless Google WONT be using the temperature I set it at for marketing purposes. I get enough robo-calls about solar, heating, etc as it is.

Really? I added myself to the do not call registry and no longer get any.

In addition, I mostly use google voice - which means that a lot of political calls go straight to spam instead of connecting to me, too. Thank you, google, for plugging the political loophole on the registry...

Kurt

Re:Now I need a new thermostat...

[mythosaz]

Google voice sticks me with two entry points, my GV number and my "real" number. Twice the opportunity to get spammed -- although, yes, the Google entry point gets very little.

Re:Now I need a new thermostat...

[msauve]

Your phone is borken if you don't get calls from Rachel at cardholder services.

Re:Now I need a new thermostat...

[Fnord666]

Your phone is borken if you don't get calls from Rachel at cardholder services.

I thought it was "Peggy".

No, it means...

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll all get bricked in a year and a half when the service doesn't see the adoption Google wants and shuts it down.

Re:No, it means...

[Tablizer]

They'll all get bricked in a year and a half when the service [expires]

When the toilet is bricked, it's called "logged", or "backlogged". Wait long enough and it will be bricks, though.

Re:No, it means...

[s.petry]

Are you kidding me? You have not been paying enough attention to what Google does in my opinion, there is a much more valid concern. Google will load it up with NSA goodies and sell it at a loss! Best have your wireless sniffers handy when these things get assimilated. If you are going to out Google, at least do it with something good!

Re:No, it means...

[rmdingler]

Bricks are like turtles if they're all the way down.

From Nest, Goolgle will diversify further into a likely burgeoning home automation craze.

Wi-fi-enabled-cellphone remote-controlled homes are the homeowner-have-to-have home improvement upgrade of the next few years.

Re:No, it means...

[omnichad]

Yes, Google is looking to make the smartphone the center of your universe. And make sure it all integrates better with Android.

paid advertising

[Anonymous Coward]

when I adjust my temperature in my home?

is nothing sacred?

Just what we need

[Anonymous Coward]

A fire alarm that will recommend a specific brand of extinguisher before going off and putting fire frequency on sale for insurance companies. The thermostat data will probably be used to offer advertisements on new energy plans and great deals on sweaters.
May the Google bubble burst soon.

And

[The Cat]

Google slowly becomes Microsoft. Monopolists never change.

Re: And

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft was in essence just a criminal that wanted your money.

Google is far worse. They are creepy. They remind me of Charles Augustus Magnussen. They want more and more connected data, coerce you into using their "services" and thereby gathering even more data about you until they own you.

In Soviet Googlestan---

[ackthpt]

TV watches itself for YOU!

it also orders stuff on line you might like.

Obligatory cult classic Remo Williams quote!

[cpj]

"Hell, [with this computer], I can find out the temperature of your ass in that chair, if I really want to know."

Re:Obligatory cult classic Remo Williams quote!

[rmdingler]

Hell we'll be calling tech support if it doesn't keep the ass temperature an even 308.15K.

More targeted ads?

[Pirogoeth]

"We've noticed that you've been running your furnace a lot recently. Here's a list of insulation installers in your area that you might be interested in."

Have had a Nest for about two years

[Iconoc]

It is a great device and I know it has saved me money during long hot summers.

If you are worried about privacy, turn off your cell phones and computers. You've already been pwned.

Re:Have had a Nest for about two years

[Rob the Bold]

It is a great device and I know it has saved me money during long hot summers. If you are worried about privacy, turn off your cell phones and computers. You've already been pwned.

Just because you've been pwned, doesn't mean you can't get pwned even more. Like how losing your virginity doesn't mean you can't get screwed again.

Wait, a car analogy would be more appropriate (and relevant): Just because you've already had a flat tire doesn't mean you can't get another.

Re:Have had a Nest for about two years

[Iconoc]

Your argument would be more effective as a horse/buggy/whip analogy.

Re:Have had a Nest for about two years

[Rob the Bold]

Your argument would be more effective as a horse/buggy/whip analogy.

Whatever you're into, man. As long as it's two consenting adults ain't none of my business.

google + posts when your smoke detectors goes off

[Joe_Dragon]

google + posts when your smoke detectors goes off just hope that it does not need to be on line to work.

$3.2B

[Anonymous Coward]

Ridiculous sum of money for Nest. Google is starting to look like a has been trying to buy their way to relevance like Microsoft.

Re:$3.2B

[Dahamma]

Given the market for Nest Protect is about 150 million times x3 (or more) in the US alone (and unlike thermostats, there is really currently nothing like it), it may not be that out of line. Especially since they need to be replaced every 10 years. And Nest now has a track record for fantastic products (who knows what they are working on next?)

Valuations are based more on predicted future revenue than current. Otherwise none of these recent IPOs or acquisitions would be worth *anything*.

Re:$3.2B

[TsuruchiBrian]

I'm not going to pretend I know how much companies are worth, but I don't believe you know either.

Re:$3.2B

[rmdingler]

Google's disposable income, with annual revenue in the neighborhood of 50 billion $US, is surely enough to cover even the impulse buy of an over-rated wi-fi thermostat company.

Thing is, occasionally the stars line up just right, and the Guys smart enough to charge anybody fifty thousand million dollars in one year's billings turn out to be right.

Re:$3.2B

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea cause everyone is gonna buy a $250 thermometer from a single vendor.

Re:$3.2B

[TheloniousToady]

Neither does Google. Paying this much money for such a small young company is pure speculation. Kindda reminds me of their YouTube purchase. Even though YouTube is quite popular, it hasn't been a big financial success for them, last I heard.

Re:$3.2B

[TsuruchiBrian]

How much money did google make from youtube and how much did they spend on it in total?

Re:$3.2B

[Dahamma]

Thermostat, not thermometer. DUH.

Re:$3.2B

[Mashiki]

Uh it *is* a thermostat. As for nothing like it? My grandparents had a honeywell electronic thermostat that could do nearly everything that the nest ones do, and that was in 1992. The only difference is theirs was fully wired, and had to be wired into other things besides. And this is mainly via wifi. This thing isn't revolutionary, not by a long shot.

Re:$3.2B

[TheloniousToady]

Maybe they're just trying to ruin their return on equity (ROE), which currently is an unspectacular 16%.

If they were following Microsoft's playbook, they might be trying to avoid expensive acquisitions so that their highly profitable company could achieve a very respectable ROE of 30%. Most of Microsoft's bad investments are organic, not acquisitions, e.g. Bing. In fact, I can't remember the last time Microsoft shelled out even a measly billion dollars for an acquisition. Losing money organically is really smart - much cheaper than losing it through acquisitions.

Then again, maybe Google is just trying to catch down with Facebook's not-so-great ROE of 8%. Facebook sets the gold standard for corporations who pay too much for acquisition.

Re:$3.2B

[alen]

some of us aren't dumb enough to spend all that money for a thermostat. just weatherproof your home to keep the hot and cold air in depending on the season and don't worry about the avalanche of data or running your heater or AC before you get home

Re:$3.2B

[mattack2]

Why do they need to be replaced every 10 years? Do you just mean "planned obsolescence", or something actually breaking/wearing out that that needs replacing?

Even if Google stops putting out software/fixes for it, I can't imagine a current one just stops working (as well as it currently does) in 10 years.

Re:$3.2B

[Anonymous Coward]

that doesn't make you less retarded

Re:$3.2B

[TheloniousToady]

Sorry, I'd like to help you but I prefer not to sully unsubstantiated claims with mere facts and figures.

Re:$3.2B

[DigiShaman]

I'd rather Google use its disposable income on alternative energy research. Fusion would be nice. That, or thorium reactor technology. After all, they need energy too for their data centers.

Re:$3.2B

[afidel]

Well estimated 2012 revenues were $3.6B, if they run about average in profitability they'll have around a 20% margin which means $720M profit for 2012, at that rate it will take them less than 3 years to pay back the $1.65B they paid for youtube (real ROI will probably be longer since they ran it at some loss for 5-6 years).

Re:$3.2B

[afidel]

In fact, I can't remember the last time Microsoft shelled out even a measly billion dollars for an acquisition.

MS paid $7.3B for aQuantive in 2007, $8.5B for Skype in 2011, and 5.4B Euros for Nokia just 4 months ago.

Re:$3.2B

[TheloniousToady]

Sorry, I should have remembered at least Skype and Nokia. The Skype one always seemed pretty dumb to me, but the Nokia one makes some sense. Anyway, their ROE still is pretty high despite all that.

Re:$3.2B

[breeze95]

Sorry, I'd like to help you but I prefer not to sully unsubstantiated claims with mere facts and figures.

In other words, you don't know and prefer to blow smoke up /. collective asses. Carry on then.

Re:$3.2B

[MikeBabcock]

More importantly, Nest has hired a bunch of really bright people who make really good products who will now work for Google.

Re:$3.2B

[Dahamma]

Uh, no, the Nest Protect is a smoke/CO sensor. That was my POINT - the Nest thermostat is cool but not all that unique (today, at least). But there isn't much out there like the Protect right now.

Oh, and as far as a Honeywell in *1992*, if you think it could do "nearly everything" the Nest can do, you don't know much about it. But I guess that's the point - it's not about flashy features, it's about reducing your energy usage without you having to do anything.

Re:$3.2B

[Dahamma]

Do you just mean "planned obsolescence", or something actually breaking/wearing out that that needs replacing?

I think it's just an industry recommendation since electronic components tend to wear after that long, and for something as important as a smoke/CO detector it's not worth the increased chance it won't work/be as effective after that amount of time. Might last longer than that, but for a few hundred dollars on something that just needs to work isn't that much in the scheme of things...

Re:$3.2B

[Anonymous Coward]

Some areas have much more extreme weather than others. Though I live in the bay area now I originally lived in Texas and I'll tell you that while weather proofing helps, ac is basically a must and accounts for $100s of dollars in electric bills. Friends have told me that the nest thermostat has helped the! Reduce there electric bills because of the learning algorithms it has.

Re:$3.2B

[Dahamma]

Yup. $3.2B might be a bit much for the usual "mass employee acquisition", though. They do have some pretty good products and patents, which probably accounts for more than the employee aspect...

Re:$3.2B

[rsborg]

In fact, I can't remember the last time Microsoft shelled out even a measly billion dollars for an acquisition.

MS paid $7.3B for aQuantive in 2007, $8.5B for Skype in 2011, and 5.4B Euros for Nokia just 4 months ago.

Just because Microsoft is spending like a drunken sailor doesn't mean Google should as well unless that's another way for them to compete with Microsoft

Seriously, Apple and Amazon don't need to make multi-billion dollar acquisitions, they buy key talent and tech, not entire markets, and rely on organic innovation (or at least put their own spin on the acquisition).

Re:$3.2B

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the lifespan of the sensor's chemical components.

Re:$3.2B

[AchilleTalon]

Do you realize it's a lot of stupidos out there? What's the whole point of this product? As mentioned above, thermostats are doing their job since 1930 which is to keep a constant temperature. Well, this programmable thing appears nice to economize energy, however in practice there is no need to put it on internet to do that just to adjust a schedule once or twice in a year.

Maybe Google is planning to develop a wireless-coupled-ass-thermometer-with-gyroscope-and-gps to track your body temperature, body orientation and position in the house or even outside and adjust thermostats accordingly. Then you would become a smart ass.

Re:$3.2B

[TheloniousToady]

It's just a joke, son, I say, a joke.

Actually, I believe what I reported to be true based on articles I've read over the years but I don't really have the time/energy to dig them out to rigorously prove it for you with references. If rigorous proof becomes required here, the comment submission rate will plummet. This ain't exactly Wikipedia. (Haven't you figured out yet that most of what's written here is the "smoke" you refer to? I'm not sure what part of the anatomy it's intended for, though - personally, I'd rather it go through your eyes into your brain, as text one reads typically does, but you're welcome to apply it in any way you prefer.)

Re:$3.2B

[omnichad]

Yep. Sometimes it just works. Like when they bought Keyhole. Or Urchin. Not sure that Postini has really worked out, no idea if any of that trickled down to Gmail or not.

Re:$3.2B

[omnichad]

There's a belief - even within large organizations, that organic innovation is killed off by bureaucracy. Google and Microsoft are trying to buy back their youth by throwing around money. They believe that their core business may lose relevance in the future, and need something new to keep them alive.

Re:$3.2B

[MikeBabcock]

I'm betting they also have a fantastic profit margin.

Re:$3.2B

[Dahamma]

It doesn't adjust "once or twice a year" - it constantly adjusts based on learning from your patterns. The point is you don't NEED a constant temperature, you need the temperature to be what you want it to be when you are there. Mine has learned my patterns well enough now that it knows the usual time of day that I get up, go to work, get home, even that I usually work at home on Tuesdays, and am home more often on weekends, etc. And it also knows the forecast temperatures and outside temps (via Internet data, you don't have to set up an outdoor thermometer) so it can predict when to turn on and off to get the temperature to what you want when you are there, not just turn on and off at set times. It also has lots of other advanced features people may or may not need - like min. temp when you are on vacation (to keep pipes from freezing), auto away sensing based on motion detection, etc. It can also run fans without AC to circulate air (which saves a lot of energy, too). Additionally, the Internet connection lets me check and control it from my phone, see the exact usage patterns for the month, compare usage over time or vs. others in the same area, and take automatic software updates.

All of this has added up to enough fine tuned (and completely automated) control for me that it paid itself off after 2 years. And to call someone stupid for using technology to simplify something and save money is probably one of the most ignorant comments I have read on slashdot all week...

How about a smart toilet?

[Trashcan Romeo]

To analyze my shit and customize advertising based on my dietary preferences.

Re:How about a smart toilet?

[rmdingler]

I believe that industry has passed unto the hands of a government monopoly.

I mean, they already own the sewer treatment plants.

Re:How about a smart toilet?

[bob_super]

Considering they already did measurements in some sewer systems to estimate that's city's cocaine consumption...

What would Google suggestion to you be: "buy bitcoin mining hardware / visit Silk Roak", or get "discount lawyers"

Re:How about a smart toilet?

[quenda]

There are some consumer technology areas where the Japanese still dominate.

I'll be keeping mine

[chrisgeleven]

I'm willing to give Nest and Google the benefit of the doubt. Supposedly Nest has claimed in interviews after the news broke that their privacy policy is very strict and limits the info Nest gathers to Nest products only. If that is the case, and more importantly, their privacy policy doesn't change in the future, I'll stay a happy customer.

If there is evidence of Google doing evil, then it's easy to create an eBay listing.

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[Trashcan Romeo]

That assurance should last as long as "We won't track your data across services" did.

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[Anonymous Coward]

their privacy policy doesn't change in the future
 
LOL!!! How naive of you.
 
Google already has its dick firmly in your ass.

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[hackingbear]

All EULA also contains clauses like "We can change the terms of this agreement at will." And once it got enough penetration, a letter/email looking a like a junk will be sent to you inbox/mailbox with a lengthy legal statement of the changes and guaranteed 99% will not ever read and remaining 99% will not care a damn thing.

In this country, we cook you like frog in slow cooker powered by fine prints.

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[Anonymous Coward]

That assurance should last as long as "We won't track your data across services" did.

And as long as "Do no evil"...

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[Anonymous Coward]

When Google acquired YouTube they made the same statement that it would continue to be operated as its own brand http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15196982/ns/business-us_business/t/google-buys-youtube-billion/

Fast forward a few years and YouTube users are majorly bitching that Google is making it very difficult to keep their YouTube account as just a YouTube account instead of a Google+ account.

At this point I'm just hoping that a good smart thermostat competitor will come to market before Google "harmonizes" the Nest product line.

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[Anonymous Coward]

The people who instantly said "OMG! THEY'RE GOING TO TRACK EVERYTHING I DO!!!!" are just ridiculous knee-jerk reactionaries.

Yes, it's POSSIBLE that they might change things down the road - but it's not like TODAY Google immediately started selling your motion sensor info...

Re:I'll be keeping mine

[Branciforte]

I work at Google, in the facilities automation group. Google is really good at designing warehouse-scale computers that maximize the efficiency of electrical usage and heating/cooling. I suspect that this Nest acquisition is an attempt to leverage some of their heating/cooling expertise.

I fully expect that no one will believe this and will chalk it up to an advertising opportunity.

Chromecast it

[MrDoh!]

So, the AC unit can be the master, with wifi, that also connects to the smoke alarms around the house with wifi, with speakers... I'm sensing the chance for streaming music wherever you go in the house. Notifications, warnings where you left the phone. More of the chromecast model of a fairly basic module that's controlled through the phone's UI and just streams. To have these neat devices ONLY used for fire/ac, when they could have so much more running? Lots of potential. Tied in with your phone, and it's location, so as you're returning from work, crank up the heat/AC as needed. Maybe tie it into Google Glass so you can wander around the house and SEE the temp and control it with a few blinks? Very very cool, hopefully Google won't dump it but really go all out to make it the base of an Aware House.

Re:Chromecast it

[Anonymous Coward]

more features, more bugs, more chance of freezing or misreading things, more chance for security exploits

If you lose your internet connection...

[Glasswire]

and Google can't grab information from your Nest, the unit will shutdown your furnace until you get that connection back up.

Re:If you lose your internet connection...

[Glasswire]

It's no coincidence they're going to rename it the Chrometer

Re:If you lose your internet connection...

[Anonymous Coward]

Right cause that team of professionally trained engineers haven't thought of something as simple as that, dumbass. I see you're rockin a 6 digit UID. In that case, let me sum all of this up in one word: Luddite.

Re:In Soviet Googlestan---Smoke Detectors

[Anonymous Coward]

Nest smoke detector watches and listens for you and Misses go at it and serves the following ads:
1 or more kids and male: Vasectomy ad
Female under 40: pregnancy test
Unmarried: birth control ads
Ugly: birth control ads
Hot Female under 25: earn $1,000 a day..find an "agent"
Old fart: Viagra

What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[retroworks]

I own a warehouse and have to pay a security firm to receive emergency signals for freezing (pipes!) and smoke or overheating. I'd like to be able to monitor it myself. I'd live with ads if i can reduce what I pay the security company. Seems kind of obvious.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Swampash]

I own a warehouse and have to pay a security firm to receive emergency signals for freezing (pipes!) and smoke or overheating. I'd like to be able to monitor it myself.

That will require a Google+ account.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Anonymous Coward]

So let me get this straight, instead of some rather simple in-house deployment of equipment and development of a small delivery system to convey the necessary information you NOT ONLY chose the shelved stock solution, but you even would easily sell personal info and pay in baked air to get a marginally better deal? What are you doing on a tech site anyway?

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Anonymous Coward]

What on earth is with Slashdot's obsessive faux-privacy activists? Google offers numerous enterprise products that don't involve "selling your personal info." Not that selling the temperature of your warehouse to Google is necessarily a problem anyway.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Anonymous Coward]

What on earth is the source for all the idiots that can't counter with a reasonable argument?

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Anonymous Coward]

What on earth is the source for all the idiots that can't counter with a reasonable argument?

A vagina.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a warehouse and have to pay a security firm to receive emergency signals for freezing (pipes!) and smoke or overheating. I'd like to be able to monitor it myself. I'd live with ads if i can reduce what I pay the security company. Seems kind of obvious.

Maybe the doom and gloom is because some of us already paid $250 for a thermostat product because it did not have commercials? If Google were to refund our $250 and then offer the option of continuing to use a spam-you-commercials product by paying an appropriately lower price then we'd have less reason to bitch.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[Anonymous Coward]

really? we had to get rid of our enterprise google search appliances as the only support provided required them to have remote access to the machine, google have no clue when it comes to enterprises and privacy/security.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[ddtstudio]

Sounds like you could use some Twine (http://supermechanical.com). Full disclosure: I'm friends with the inventor. Still and all, it's pretty cool. Other friends use it with a moisture sensor to know when basements are starting to flood, etc.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[MikeBabcock]

Or you could get a Google corporate domain account and you won't have the ads any more.

Re:What's with the Doom and Gloom?

[drinkypoo]

I own a warehouse and have to pay a security firm to receive emergency signals for freezing (pipes!) and smoke or overheating. I'd like to be able to monitor it myself.

Numerous technologies already exist to do this. You could actually do it entirely by purchasing off-the-shelf equipment. You don't need to involve Google.

I think $3.2B is too much

[AaronW]

I own a Nest thermostat and while it's a great and innovative device I don't see the company being worth $3.2B. There are also a lot of other new Internet enabled smoke detectors coming out. I looked at their smoke detectors but in many jurisdictions they can't be legally installed since smoke detectors are required to have a hard-wire connection such that if one goes off they all go off. Since Nest does this wirelessly it's not allowed. They're also incompatible with all the other smoke detectors and alarm systems and are quite expensive for what they are. I looked into this since I just wired in a bunch of 2-wire (12v) smoke detectors into my alarm system. I picked up a combination smoke/CO detector with heat sensor that integrates into my alarm system for $80.

Now what would be cool is for someone to integrate a good wireless AP with a smoke detector though I think the smoke detector signalling should remain separate (at least here in California they require using special fire alarm wire for hooking up fire related stuff).

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[MightyMartian]

I own a Nest thermostat and while it's a great and innovative device I don't see the company being worth $3.2B.

With the way valuations seem to be done nowadays, a bloody lemonade stand made from a sheet of plywood and a few 2x4s is probably going to be worth a few million bucks.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[bob_super]

Only of you draw a cloud on it

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

And make the lemonade without sweetener in order to be "a disruptive force in the market".

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[aiadot]

I wish I could mod both of you up, but unfortunately my unused mod points expired a couple of hours ago. 3.2B for just a freaking smoke detector with barely any market share yet. The profitable medical robotics company I work for, with real examples documented in scientific journals of improving and even saving lives, isn't worth a hundredth of that yet. Life is simply not fair...

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[bob_super]

I don't care how you make your non-skeuomorphic ice cubes, they're worth another $7M because it's cool.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[Em Adespoton]

Only of you draw a cloud on it

That's so 2010... these days, it would need to be connected to the cloud and have its own IPV6 address.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[TsuruchiBrian]

So all we need to do is all open lemonade stands, and the national debt will be gone.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

There's always money in the banana stand.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[Cantankerous Cur]

Welcome to the very premise Apple is based on.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[AchilleTalon]

Only if you have registered trademark and own intellectual property on the lemonade receipe. Look what people pay for sweetened water with artificial flavor.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

Gives new meaning to the term fire wire.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[Bodero]

I own a Nest thermostat and while it's a great and innovative device I don't see the company being worth $3.2B.

To be fair, we don't know what products Nest has in the pipeline that only Google and their other investment partners know about.

Also, remember, Google Ventures was a big shareholder early on in Nest - they may effectively be paying themselves quite a chunk of change.

Re:I think $3.2B is too much

[phoebe]

Nest responded to this on their blog: "Your Nest Protect questions. Our answers." There is no requirement for a hard-wire, there is a requirement for a connection and that can be wireless. All vendors are incompatible and do not support hard-wire connection to other vendors.

For an eye opener on market pricing look at the KIDDE Silhouette, pricing over U$S110 (list price) by some vendors and that's only a hard wired carbon-monoxide detector. Amazon stocks it for a more reasonable US$60.

Does the google check books...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the google check books only come pre-filled with "$ 00.000.000" in the amount field?

The nest is a piece of shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to waste billions you retards! How's that "google+" going by the way?

Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[AaronW]

Many areas of the country, i.e. California, require that for new installations that all of the smoke detectors be wired together using special wire. In my case I just installed a bunch of 2-wire smoke detectors that tie into my monitored alarm system. I had to use special fire alarm wire and the 2 and 4-wire smoke detector hookups are at least somewhat standardized (you don't want to mix brands though) as are the hard-wired AC smoke detectors. Nest wireless smoke detectors can't interface with other smoke detectors or alarm systems and they don't meet the hard-wire connection requirement between detectors. Many people in the Nest forums have complained about this. While it's cool it will help the Nest thermostat keep track of if the house is occupied or not until they provide the proper hard-wired hookups they're not even legal for new installations or even replacing smoke detectors in existing installations.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[Rick Zeman]

Many areas of the country, i.e. California, require that for new installations that all of the smoke detectors be wired together using special wire. In my case I just installed a bunch of 2-wire smoke detectors that tie into my monitored alarm system. I had to use special fire alarm wire and the 2 and 4-wire smoke detector hookups are at least somewhat standardized (you don't want to mix brands though) as are the hard-wired AC smoke detectors. Nest wireless smoke detectors can't interface with other smoke detectors or alarm systems and they don't meet the hard-wire connection requirement between detectors. Many people in the Nest forums have complained about this. While it's cool it will help the Nest thermostat keep track of if the house is occupied or not until they provide the proper hard-wired hookups they're not even legal for new installations or even replacing smoke detectors in existing installations.

That's not exactly true. The law says that they need to be interconnected, and Nest Protects do amongst themselves using 802.11, or falling back to 802.15.4. The requirement that they be hard-wired was dropped a few years back. In essence, if you replace one wired detector with a Nest your should replace all of them...which gets Quite Damn Expensive since they can't interconnect with any wired device.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[TsuruchiBrian]

I live in California, and I will do whatever I want. I just bought a nest protect because it looks cool, and want to try it out. It will be an improvement over my last smoke detector system (i.e. a baseplate with nothing in it). Even if the previous owner left the smoke detector, there would only be one of them.

The way I see it, my new smoke detector will be hard wired to all the other smoke detectors in the house (i.e. all zero of them), just like how the previous owners had it.

I'm really not sure if having a wire is all that much more fault tolerant than having wireless communications anyway. Can't wires be damaged in a fire? I would imagine having a bunch of nests all wirelessly communicating would have some advantages, in addition to being way the fuck cheaper than rewiring my whole house to have a bunch of new wires running through the walls.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Libertarian, weaboo and an asshole!

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[fast turtle]

The Bay and Sacromento Area of California requires new construction to have special wired Smoke detectors - FTFY

I live in So.Cal and there is absolutely nothing in our building codes about Smoke Detectors needing to be hard wired in new construction unless it's commercial (Hotels/Office/Wharehouse) is the main break point. Hell we don't even require smoke detectors in homes by law unless they're rental properties. Otherwise, California at least still feels you're on your own in that regards.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

kill yourself you shit-eating retard

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[AaronW]

As I said they use special wire for fire alarms. Also, by law it is now required that every bedroom must have a working smoke detector. The last time I had a building inspector come around to inspect having my main electrical panel replaced he had to verify that there were adequate smoke detectors and that there was also a CO detector installed.

You also can't just use any old wire for the signalling for smoke detectors. At least with the two wire smoke detector setup like I use the central alarm will detect if there is a wiring fault since modern alarm systems typically require a resistor be installed at the end of the chain. If the wire should be damaged, the alarm will be triggered. While wireless may be advantageous in some situations it all depends on how well the signals propagate. I've had enough problems with 802.11 going 20 feet between my router and a nearby bedroom (both 2.4 and 5.6GHz). What happens if there's interference? With 802.11 it's no big deal. With a fire system that must be reliable this isn't acceptable. With a wired connection there's little chance of getting interference or losing the signal. Oh, the fire alarm wire is also twisted in order to reduce interference picked up by it. It's not cheap either... I ended up paying a lot more for 2-wire fire alarm wire than if I just ran CAT6.

Having my fire integrated into my alarm system will lower my homeowner's insurance as well.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[TsuruchiBrian]

This all sounds very expensive. While I agree it is better to be safe than sorry in some abstract sense, I don't think it makes sense to spend any dollar amount to be any amount safer. I can't help but think there are probably better ways of spending that money, even if safety was my #1 goal (e.g. buying a safer car, buying better health insurance, etc).

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[AaronW]

It wasn't all that expensive in the end though now I have a bunch of fire alarm wire left over, enough to do several more houses at least since I ended up with 500' of it. The smoke detectors are actually cheaper than many of the off-the-shelf ones. I paid around $33 per smoke detector (with heat detector) except for the one that also does CO which was around $80, $150 for all the wire and under $20 for each heat detector where I put one in the attic, one in my kitchen and a couple in my garage. I already had an alarm system installed so it was just a matter of wiring it in. I added an alarm and strobe to each bedroom as well ($15). With three bedrooms and everything it works out to around $487. I'll make that back in a few years from the discount off of my homeowners insurance. I'm basically slowly upgrading my house to bring everything up to more modern standards.

Since everything is wired into the system if it gets set off even if I'm not home the service will be notified. Everything also is battery backed in case of an electrical fault from the central alarm and phone system.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[TsuruchiBrian]

I'm guessing you also did your own wiring rather than hiring someone to do it. That would probably be the biggest expense for me. I have a 4 bedroom 2 story house with vaulted ceilings in 2 of the bedrooms and attic access to only 1 room.

Re:Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. Using unlicensed spectrum for critical life safety communications devices is idiotic at best, criminally negligent at worst.

Smart Toilets are so 2005

[NotQuiteReal]

clever toilet

Another product bites the dust

[Anonymous Coward]

Queue the Google Shutdown of this service in 3, 2, 1...

I liked the idea of the Nest too, too bad EA2.0 'Search Edition' had to buy them.

Re:Another product bites the dust

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL i love the EA reference

i wish i hadnt have spent all my mod points before scrolling down here

Perhaps even only Android

[jader3rd]

What will this mean for Nest devices going forward — greater integration with Android, perhaps?

It will probably mean the lack of integration with any non-Android device.

Re:Perhaps even only Android

[mattack2]

Why would you say that? There is already an iOS app for ChromeCast, another Google hardware product.

Following Apple, again

[Camembert]

Apple bought a home automation company some time ago. A sensible rumor is that the upcoming iwatch could also be used to for example remotely dim your living room lights, etc. I can see Google aiminh for a similar path forward.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish

[Anonymous Coward]

Now applies to Google.

Except, instead of buying competition, Google buys innovative companies with paradigm-shifting products, neglects them, and then kills them for lack of revenue.

Google is not evil, just negligent.

I'm torn

[burne]

between spending those modpoints,

and saying the inevitable 'all your temperatures are belong to us'

dang!

UELA says EULA can change at anytime

[Anonymous Coward]

I guarantee their EULA has weasel-words that say they can change anything in the agreement, unilaterally, without notice, without recourse, any time they want.

As if $300 wasn't bad enough

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, we don't own a Nest as $300 is ridiculous for a thermostat. Would it be nice to control on the internet? Sure but that functionality is not worth 3x a regular programmable one. Add in the chance for Google to get even more info about you, and now you couldn't get one of these devices in my front door if you paid me to take it.

Re:As if $300 wasn't bad enough

[Anonymous Coward]

3x? More like 30x. I paid $10 for my current digital 7 day, 4 period thermostat. And it even does 2-stage heat pumps! Don't see the point of the Nest.

Patent portfolio ?

[slincolne]

It would be interesting to see what patents Google will be picking up with this. It's hard to see US$3.2 billion in value given the limited range of products Nest currently sell, however if there is some latent IP that Google can leverage then there might be some cool stuff coming out of this.

Re:Patent portfolio ?

[AchilleTalon]

You have a point here. Maybe Google just don't care much about Nest products, they may have bought it to avoid future IP issues with a newcoming product.

Why so much acquisitions

[cloud.pt]

Just weeks ago we heard about Google thermostat prototypes. It wasn't enough to have so much in-house projects but now the policy is becoming "let's buy popular brands in emerging segments where we suck so we can be everywhere". This monopoly and diversity is bad for company focus and especially for the consumer. Android, Youtube, Motorola, Boston Dynamics, FlexyCore, and the list goes on and on. Up next: Oculus VR

Compressor destroyed, heat exchgr rusted + cracked

[WaffleMonster]

At least that built in microphone will be put to good use.

sign of the end of social networking hype....

[recharged95]

Is it me or did Google just kick off the Internet of Things as the next big thing after social networking...with all these automation acquisitions in the last couple of months?

I'm beginning ...

[PPH]

... to lose my trust in Nest.

I for one welcome...

[Trip6]

our new thermal overlords.

The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931

[PapayaSF]

THE THERMOSTAT

Of all the great inventions of modern times the one that has given me most comfort and joy is one that is seldom heard of, to wit, the thermostat. I was amazed, some time ago, to hear that it was invented at least a generation ago. I first heard of it during the War of 1914-18, when some kind friend suggested that I throw out the coal furnace that was making steam in my house and put in a gas furnace. Naturally enough, I hesitated, for the human mind is so constituted. But the day I finally succumbed must remain ever memorable in my annals, for it saw me move at one leap from an inferno into a sort of paradise. Everyone will recall how bad the coal was in those heroic days. The patriotic anthracite men loaded their culm-piles on cars, and sold them to householders all over the East. Not a furnaceman was in practise in my neighborhood: all of them were working in the shipyards at $15 a day. So I had to shovel coal myself, and not only shovel coal, but sift ashes. It was a truly dreadful experience. Worse, my house was always either too hot or too cold. When a few pieces of actual coal appeared in the mass of slate the temperature leaped up to 85 degrees, but most of the time it was between 45 and 50.

The thermostat changed all that, and in an instant. I simply set it at 68 degrees, and then went about my business. Whenever the temperature in the house went up to 70 it automatically turned off the gas under the furnace in the cellar, and there was an immediate return to 68. And if the mercury, keeping on, dropped to 66, then the gas went on again, and the temperature was soon 68 once more. I began to feel like a man liberated from the death-house. I was never too hot or too cold. I had no coal to heave, no ashes to sift. My house became so clean that I could wear a shirt five days. I began to feel like work, and rapidly turned out a series of imperishable contributions to the national letters. My temper improved so vastly that my family began to suspect senile changes. Moreover, my cellar became as clean as the rest of the house, and as roomy as a barn. I enlarged my wine-room by 1000 cubic metres. I put in a cedar closet big enough to hold my whole wardrobe. I added a vault for papers, a carpenter shop, and a praying chamber.

H.L. Mencken
The Boons of Civilization
From the American Mercury, Jan., 1931, pp. 33-35

Re:The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931

[Buchenskjoll]

A thousand cubic metres???? That's half a football field (FIFA) 2 meters high? Or my house by 4. I find that hard to believe.

Re:The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931

[jalopezp]

He must have done a lot of shoveling to keep that place warm before.

Re:The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931

[DaTrueDave]

with 10 ft ceilings in the cellar, that could be an area 60 ft by 60 ft.

Re:The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931

[Buchenskjoll]

Ahh, I did the old factor 10 error. Sorry about that. DaTrueDave (obviously an imperial storm trooper) is right, it's about 20 by 20 meters.

Re:The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931

[lgw]

H L Menken was a humorist (seems obsessive literalist geeks need that pointed out). Actually, almost all the humor he wrote is still funny today - really worth reading what you can find.

Might be worth it

[mattr]

It sounds expensive but considering strategy it might be worth it.
Without even studying it, the Nest could grow up to be way more than thermostats.. think about home and commercial security and surveillance perhaps like SECOM, a Japanese home security services company that has a base station in the wall near your front door. A Nest or Android style system would revolutionize it. Looking at the UK site they also have a GPS personal tracking device.. would be easy (for Google) to make an app that does this with an android phone.
I'd see it more like their motorola purchase. With something that is generally accepted as an always-on home base station, but with more daily interaction than say your wifi router which is another always-on unit, now Google can start selling appliances that are always on and interacting with you no matter where you are.. maybe the Nest app will in the future have a button that lets you stream from your home media server to a nearby android-powered amp even? Or a button on your thermostat will switch to robot-managed home security that doesn't go off by accident and all the annoying things alarms do? I could see a ton of cheap sensors for everything from pipes to roof to smoke and infrared.. Anyway as a beachhead into the house it might be worth it.
http://www.secom.plc.uk/
http://www.secom.co.jp/english/personal.html

Home Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does anyone actually need this? It seems like more stuff to "break" as inevitably anything in the home does. And less reliable.

Sorry, but this is a problem that doesn't need to be solved. Worse, it stinks of white people problems.

Saddened, but unsurprised

[JonBoy47]

The Nest product-line showed promise, bringing iPod-like ease of use to a product category that had been completely stagnant for several decades. Especially now that they're branching out to smoke alarms and such, it doesn't surprise me that El Goog would jump on Nest to further whatever connected home/Internet of Things play they're cooking up. Yet another device they can have going all Big Brother on me; they'll ultimately monetize this stuff somehow. Google is fundamentally an advertising company, after all.

Previous comments to this thread (and the Amazon reviews) indicate less than stellar reliability of the primary function of keeping the house at the set temperature. With Wifi, a color LCD and non-trivial CPU power, this thing is a power hog compared to typical thermostats, and getting sufficient power to the wall, without compromising the operation of the HVAC system under control, appears to be an issue. I imagine lack of experience making any other HVAC components isn't helping their cause, nor is the emphasis on easy (and likely incorrect) DIY installation. Seems the kind of rookie mistake Honeywell wouldn't have made.

You'll be interested in upcoming Google+ features

[rsborg]

We have a Nest and love it.

I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."

Now it might just be possible - with Google+ integration and the upcoming eyeNest (including a camera for user identification), you should be able to require face-unlock on the device. Just make sure your daughter isn't on your "Nest" circle.

Oh, and did I tell you about how the Nest circle works? Your Nest will cooperate with other Nest devices whose owners are in your Nest circle and vice-versa, and engage "social temperatures" suitable for the climate of your conversations will be automatically set. Share more than just your pictures and personal data!

"going forward" means "in the future"

[Anonymous Coward]

So why not just say it? Don't you HATE that irritating, overused phrase, 'going forward'?

passwords!

[bickerdyke]

Well, user control based on passwords should be implemented easier for those than for any conventional thermostat.

Re: Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Two words: non-ionizing radiation.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ionizing_radiation

One word

[Anonymous Coward]

One word: research.

10 year lifetime is the law

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do they need to be replaced every 10 years? Do you just mean "planned obsolescence", or something actually breaking/wearing out that that needs replacing?

Even if Google stops putting out software/fixes for it, I can't imagine a current one just stops working (as well as it currently does) in 10 years.

Imagine harder. Carbon monoxide detectors stop working reliably after about seven years and in 2009 the US made it law that all new smoke detectors must sound an end-of-life alarm (usually chirping every 30 seconds) and have no way to silence that alarm.

So it isn't Google's choice to make -- the alarms are required to essentially crap out 10 years after power is first applied to them.

Bettter Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

If gOOgle is so concerned about energy efficiency, maybe they should just turn off their spy machines ... imagine the power savings!

Or, why don't we install microphones in each room, cameras in each room - and biometrics to turn up our heat.

More wolves in sheeps clothing.

Sagetv

[Anonymous Coward]

Google bought Sagetv a few years ago (the best DVR company on the planet, imho). They bought it for Jeff K, not for the product.

They summarily killed it. I would expect the same death from Nest. They just want IP, not hardware

Re:Interesting

[omnichad]

Don't act like everyone's sensitive. Give it a few generations and the few of you there are will be bred out of existence. Please don't have any children.

Pin #

[uiucgrad]

You can actually make it so that entering a pin is necessary to make any changes.

Happy Canadian Nester

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with you grub. I'm also a Winnipeg guy, and when it hits "my breath freezes into dry ice cold" as opposed to "Damn cold" or just regular old "Bitch cold" the Nest has worked just fine. I can't think of a single issue I've had, and the ability to turn it on from my phone before I drive home means the house is toasty when i arrive, even if I leave work early!

$3.2B? For a Thermostat?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shirley you can't be serious.

What Nest does can be accomplished with an 8051 and some junior-level programming skills. There is nothing really innovative about yet another "smart" thermostat that knows that it takes time to change the temperature in a house and measures the rate of change so that it can hit time targets.

Whoopee-doo...

Google Datamining

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, don't want Google knowing when the temperature of my home changes, so that it can infer when I am home and not home. When that database gets broken into and/or the information is sold to criminals (which may include petty burglars or megaworld corporations), I think it would not be a good idea for those crooks to have that information.

Nothing like Nest Protect?

[zookie]

... unlike thermostats, there is really currently nothing like it

How about Birdi, which has quite a few more features than Nest Protect:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/birdi

They were on stage with AT&T last week, and AT&T has a big investment in home automation (Digital Life).

Re:Nothing like Nest Protect?

[Dahamma]

And it doesn't exist yet beyond a promise to ship "October 2014". So my statement stands :)

If Birdi does everything it promises (*and* is still dead simple to use - honestly I mostly just want my smoke, etc detector to be completely unobtrusive until it's needed) sounds like it could be a great product. We'll see...

Re:Luddite

[Anonymous Coward]

Luddite. Tell me stories when you could actually buy a dimebag for a dime grandpa!

Still can with the right friends.........

If Google wants the planet, they can have it

[inotrollyou]

> inb4 gtfo Google shill Honestly, I have no problem with Google buying the country wholesale. If they think they can do a better job than the current administration, what do we have to lose by letting them try?

There is...

[akpak]

You can set a code that has to be entered before any changes are made.

Seen some crazy valuations and buy-outs lately

[KramberryKoncerto]

There must be some direct cash made somewhere by an insider. Perhaps some people were secretly holding some shares of Nest, or the VC behind Nest?

Re: Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and you can also burn/boil/blind a human with non-ionising radiation, assuming sufficient power levels.

So what? I believe many other common items, eg water, salt, acceleration and sound pressure waves, are also potentially dangerous. Should non-harmful levels of those also be banned?

Lockout

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a lockout on it to help ignore your 15 year olds setting it.