GPUs Dropping Dead In 2011 MacBook Pro Models

New submitter blackwizard writes "MacRumors is reporting on pervasive GPU failures in 2011 MacBook Pro machines, leading both to intermittent video issues, corruption, crashing/freezing, and eventually even failure to boot. Luckily for Apple, the machines are now out of warranty (unless you bought AppleCare). The issues have been reported both on Apple's own forums and other blogs. Apple has so far failed to take action on the problem. Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the GPU fails?"

Comments

Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[dmiller1984]

If it's truly faulty hardware Apple will typically own up to it and offer repairs free of charge. I have the 2008 MBP that had a logic board issue and Apple replaced it for free even though I was well past the warranty and didn't have AppleCare.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[ColdWetDog]

If it was faulty then it should have failed in the first days. That it happens three years later is a sign that the user is to blame.

For not buying a new machine after the warranty expires?

I am intrigued by your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit, Apple will do no such thing unless they face severe penalties. Here in Denmark it took several court cases regarding faulty design on the MBP, which Apple lost all of them - even then did Apple not want to own up and repair the affected MBPs, it wasn't until they faced severe repercussions they started fixing them.

By the way, I'm a happy MBP owner and will probably keep being one, just saying, don't expect them to go out of the way to help you.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

A laptop built by my company has serious issues with GPUs dropping ead. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of laptops in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Rhywden]

Just think of what a boon this kind of thinking would be to the automobile industry!

A new car mandatory after three years.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[chmodman]

I have this model MBP, and yes, it failed exactly as described. I think the problem is made worse when paired with the thunderbolt screen, which forces the dedicated GPU to be used instead of the Intel GPU. It runs super HOT all the time, even when simply web browsing. Many have found a utility called smcFanControl to force the fan to run at full speed at all times in an attempt to compensate for a bad design. There are numerous YouTube video's of how to "cook" the logic board in an oven for 3 min @ 375 deg to reflow the solder and I found this does fix it temporarily, so its definitely a solder ball issue. Ultimately, I found a repair service on e-bay that for $150, replaces the solder balls on the BGA with lead balls (supposedly) and this is a more permanent fix. According to him (and he seems legit) the lead-free BGA balls suck, and over time fail with extended heat / use. I hope there is a class action on this one, because I paid almost $3k for this laptop and it only lasted 2 years!

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[amiga3D]

It's all the rage in appliances. Try buying a new major appliance without buying a warranty. When, not if, they fail you can count on a repair bill of 200 to 1000 dollars nowadays. If it's over three years old and you have no warranty then you might just as well buy a new one for what it'll cost unless you can repair it yourself. I fixed my refrigerator and while sitting at the appliance parts supply place waiting to pay 22 dollars for a part the guy next to me looked at it and laughed. I replace 7 or 8 of those a week he laughed. I asked what he charged and he told me 165 dollars. That was 8 years ago and I've replaced that same fucking part 3 times since then. I hate working on appliances but I hate taking it up the ass even more.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Bing Tsher E]

That's the Ford Pinto memo, eh? I doubt if anybody is going to leak Apple's modern equivalent.

Not that anybody is gonna die like with the Pinto, but the pangs of Mac withdrawal could be debilitating.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Bing Tsher E]

3. Keep remaining good hand clear of the Genius Bar.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[amiga3D]

That's good for bean counters that run most corporations these days. Eventually though you lose brand loyalty if you keep fucking your customers over. When that happens you become just another nothing special outfit. Apple can't afford that. If they lose the association of quality with their name they'll die.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Carrot007]

> If it's truly faulty hardware Apple will typically own up to it and offer repairs free of charge.

You missed one important bit.

Applies only in the US. Fuck elsewhere we do not care about you.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[TheRaven64]

I've seen the opposite. In the UK, if you quote the Sale of Goods Act when you call them up, they'll quickly replace faulty parts 4 years after the original purchase. In the US, as soon as the warranty expires, you're fucked if anything goes wrong.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Just Some Guy]

That's not true. I bought a used, out-of-warranty iMac which developed bad capacitors (swollen and leaking) on the graphics card a year later. I called Apple and they replaced everything inside it without charging me a penny. I never heard of that being a big scandal, and in the US I doubt they had any legal obligations to fix my 3.5 year old used Mac.

I think a more accurate version is that sometimes Apple fixes things for free because they want to, and other times because they're forced to. There's no obvious way of knowing in advance which way an "event" will go.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[MightyYar]

I've also noticed that the high-end appliances seem to have more problems than the cheap stuff. Admittedly, I'm a small sample size, but I bought a house that had previously been owned by Orthodox Jews, and so there are two of everything in the kitchen. I haven't had to repair any of the cheaper appliances, but the expensive stuff keeps nickel and diming me.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[DigiShaman]

This is an industry wide issue thanks to RoHS. This isn't just Apple, this effects Dell and HP laptops that have high temp GPUs. The XBox 360 is another perfect example. The problem is caused from the constant thermal cycling causing expansion and contraction as it cools. Like bending a paper clip, over time metal fatigue sets in and cracks the solder.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[dgatwood]

That's not really a surprise. A few years ago, while trying to decide between two products made by a major electronics company, I asked one of their engineers for advice (having repeatedly repaired the previous product before giving up on it), and he suggested that if lifespan was a major concern, I should buy the cheaper model. Why? Because it was built in such volume that even a 1% failure rate would be catastrophic to the company's bottom line, whereas a much higher failure rate in the expensive product would still be a small enough number of total units that it could be absorbed.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[dgatwood]

We've almost certainly seen deaths. Some models of vehicles have frequent ABS module failures because of solder joints failing, even in the U.S., where RoHS doesn't apply. With lead-free solder, I'd expect those problems to be much more frequent, and every ABS unit that isn't working increases the odds of somebody being unable to avoid a car accident.

Mind you, chances are good that none of those deaths have been properly reported as being caused by RoHS, because the odds against someone noticing something as subtle as a defective ABS module during a post-crash investigation are astronomical.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[jd2112]

The Pinto Memo was famously quoted in 'Fight Club' which is what I believe the AC is referencing here.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[v1]

In the case of the 2008 and the 2.2/2.4 mbp's, the problem was actually Nvidia, fault, not Apple.. Apple pushes the design limits of their components pretty close to the edge to keep their designs small, light, and enduring. The frame and cooling was designed to only slightly exceed required cooling for nvidia's GPU, according to their provided specifications.

Nvidia lied about the cooling requirements of their GPU, describing it as requiring less cooling than it actually did. (probably as a selling point to get Apple to use it) As a result, the machine didn't adequately cool it under very high stress. (playing WoW for an extended time was a known cause of failure) As a result, boards and GPUs flexed, ball solder joints failed, and gpus stopped functioning. (this is not a gpu defect or a ball problem, it's a mechanical problem, caused by thermal stress due to inadequate cooling)

After Apple had encountered a larger number of in-warranty failures than expected, they contacted Nvidia, who denied the problem. Bad logic boards continued to pour in and get repaired under the one year warranty, but replaced boards were frequently failing again, and users were sometimes seeing 2-4 replacements within the first year. A few customers got a new machine per Apple's policy on "three major repairs within warranty", some of which had gpu failures on their replacement machines as well. Apple put their own engineers to work testing new GPUs, and found that the cooling requirements were significantly above Nvidia's stated specs.

Although they were aware of this issue well before the first year, Apple's SOP on an issue like this is to stay quiet until the units start dropping out of their first year's warranty, and then issue a Repair Extension on them. (probably trying to mitigate a drop in sales on a "defective model") Coverage time for REPs vary, and only extend the warranty on the specific part, and only for the specific failure. REPs typically extend coverage to the 2, 3, or 4 year point after purchase. It does not stack with applecare extended warranty. This REP I believe went the maximum at four years from date of purchase.

Apple has issued a dozen or so REPs in the last ten years. Considering the units sold, the variety of models offered, and the cutting-edge technology they'r fond of using, this is actually a pretty low failure rate, as well as a very good manufacturer's response.

2011 is not a new computer, it's going on three years old. Referring to them as "dropping dead" makes it sound like it's a very early failure (first year or so) I think the article is being sensational and a bit deceptive to link-bait. Apple expects their products to last 3-5 years before they get replaced. Considering how fast tech advances, and that Apple users typically want new and cutting-edge tech, this isn't at all unreasonable. With as many models as they make, there are going to be those that fail sooner than others, and that you can expect to get less than 7-8 years out of. This may just be one of them. It happens. And it can suck to be the unlucky one that owns one. But "only" getting three years out of a laptop may not be desirable, but it's hardly a travesty. If Apple were to refuse to cover failures inside the one year warranty, or not extend coverage to units failing frequently in the 2-3 year area, that'd be newsworthy. This really isn't.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[vakuona]

Or it could be that people who buy cheaper appliances tend not to complain as frequently as those who buy expensive stuff.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[viperidaenz]

A place I worked at lost a whole bunch of hard drives from HP laptops just after the warranty expired.
Turned out the HP sticker they put on the drives covered the ventilation hole that says "do not cover".

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[amorsen]

UK breaches EU warranty laws.

Indeed, and consumer organizations are colluding with the industry on this issue, misinforming consumers about the EU laws. They only provide the information that by EU law, after 6 months, the consumer has to prove that the fault was caused by a problem which was there from the time of manufacture. They neglect to mention that the way you prove this is to write a statement "I have handled the equipment with reasonable care and not done anything to it which would be expected to cause the problem" (assuming this is true of course, otherwise you are risking perjury). You do NOT have to send the equipment to an expert and have them certify this.

However, the UK courts are unlikely to rule with the consumer on this issue and there is no way to appeal to an EU court, so the UK can keep its illegal interpretation of EU law going forever.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Antony T Curtis]

This is an industry wide issue thanks to RoHS. This isn't just Apple, this effects Dell and HP laptops that have high temp GPUs. The XBox 360 is another perfect example. The problem is caused from the constant thermal cycling causing expansion and contraction as it cools. Like bending a paper clip, over time metal fatigue sets in and cracks the solder.

AFAIK, they still use tin-lead based solder in medical equipment, even the new stuff, for this reason. The consumer industry went along with the RoHS stuff because they knew it was a form of built-in obsolescence. Even the tin whisker problem has been known about since the 1960s.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[sjames]

3 years IS an early death. Even my ten year old white box specials still run just as well as they ever did. It's reasonable to expect more from a premium brand.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[AmiMoJo]

Nvidia lied about the cooling requirements of their GPU, describing it as requiring less cooling than it actually did.

This is not true. Nvidia simply did not test their hardware through enough thermal cycles to discover that the soldering would fail after some time, typically 12-18 months. No malice, just incompetence. You probably got the impression that they lied because a common fix, suggested by themselves, was to underclock the GPU or increase cooling, but that was simply an attempt to reduce thermal cycling load and get the parts past the mandatory 2 year EU warranty.

Apple put their own engineers to work testing new GPUs, and found that the cooling requirements were significantly above Nvidia's stated specs.

Seems like an incredible waste of time considering the problem was well known and every other manufacturer was experiencing it. HP were worst off because they had a deal with Nvidia to supply GPUs and chipsets for almost all their consumer laptops and many of the business models. Just google a bit, it was no secret what was happening.

Although they were aware of this issue well before the first year, Apple's SOP on an issue like this is to stay quiet until the units start dropping out of their first year's warranty, and then issue a Repair Extension on them. .... REPs typically extend coverage to the 2, 3, or 4 year point after purchase.

That's fine for the US market but in the EU the statutory warranty period is 2 years, and many countries go well beyond that. In the UK this issue is covered for up to 6 years, regardless of any Apple policies.

Apple expects their products to last 3-5 years before they get replaced.

In the UK products must last a "reasonable length of time" and are covered against manufacturing defects during that period. For laptop computers courts have settled on 6 years, so every manufacturer should design their laptops to last that long.

In fairness Apple's generally do, but if your Macbook died of GPU failure due to this issue after 5 years they would still be required to either replace it or offer a partial refund.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[AmiMoJo]

The question is would more people have died from lead and other hazardous substance pollution than have died because of defective solder joints? Can defective soldering even be blamed on RoHS, when slightly more expensive but much more reliable lead free solder is available to those who choose to pay for it?

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not really a surprise. A few years ago, while trying to decide between two products made by a major electronics company, I asked one of their engineers for advice (having repeatedly repaired the previous product before giving up on it), and he suggested that if lifespan was a major concern, I should buy the cheaper model. Why? Because it was built in such volume that even a 1% failure rate would be catastrophic to the company's bottom line, whereas a much higher failure rate in the expensive product would still be a small enough number of total units that it could be absorbed.

Pardon my ignorance, but why would Orthodox Jews have duplicate appliances?

I'm not being an ass, I'm genuinely curious.

Thanks.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Mashiki]

Warranties do not, and should not last forever

Really? Can you explain why the videocard that I bought from evga has a lifetime warranty on it. And funny enough the difference in price at the time was $3 compared to the nearest competitor.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[bill_mcgonigle]

I've had satellite receivers crap out and I've had to heat-gun the chips back into connection. It's a real great way to generate mountains of e-waste - most people don't put a heat gun to their electronics' motherboards.

RoHS was supposed to be about e-waste, but maybe they forgot about unintended consequences.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[dreamchaser]

Because it's not Kosher if dairy and meat are prepared together, mostly.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[amxcoder]

Yes, this is industry wide, you don't know how many parts I've had fail because of this lead-free solder crap.

I had a laptop that died because of an nVidia card with the same problems. Tried to reflow it, but it wouldn't fix it permanently. There was a class action suit against nVidia due to this, you can look it up. This effected dozens if not more laptop manufacturers and models spanning a couple years worth of products.

I had a part in my car, where I had to reflow/resolder a sensor due to a very common failure of a solder joint on the sensor.

I've had to replace my original PS3 due to this problem, the GPU failed and cooked due to bad solder... and my second one, I've had to take extreme care of it to keep it from happening (ie: extreme heat reducing modifications). Probably still will fail over time again, but who knows when.

The PS3 and XBox world have suffered greatly over this problem, that the term "Red Ring of Death" (XBox) and the "Yellow Light of Death" (PS3) have been forever immortalized in gamer forums and youtube. There are businesses setup to do nothing but fix, reflow, and re-ball these things...

ALL due to faulty lead-free solder. So thanks to the EPA, we are all getting defective electronics, that break early, and have a shorter lifespan than normal. Costing consumers mega $$$'s in the long run.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[meerling]

Has anybody even read the article where it points out the parts failing are apparently AMD RADEON gpus?

Sure, every company has had screwups, and this time it's AMD and Apple. So why are you so intent on talking about Nvidia?

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[hairyfeet]

Informative? Really mods? Didn't bother to actually read TFA or even TFS where those without Applecare are being charged for replacements when its obviously faulty hardware? Forget your history and how much shit had to be stirred before Apple would own up to those "bumpgate" Nvidia failures a few years back?

As for what is causing the failures? the answer is simple...the HD6xxx was a hot running chip series and there simply isn't enough cooling in those MBPs. Apple has always been form over function and Jobs always HATED fan noise but you just can't beat the laws of thermodynamics folks.As someone who has used AMD GPUs since the days of the Rage pro I can say that the HD4xxx through HD6xxx were some hot chips and I saw more than my share of failed 5xxx and 6xxx chips, the 7xxx and better are frankly like night and day when it comes to temps.

But I wouldn't be surprised if shitty "environmentally friendly" solder isn't making things a LOT worse as that new lead free shit is total garbage and to me just shows how short sighted much of the whole "being green" initiatives are. Sure the old solder should have been properly recycled but the amount of failures being seen on...well pretty much anything that goes through serious heat cycling is just nuts! And you break the device open and whip out the magnifying glass and what do you see? Solder cracks and tin whiskers.

I just hope Apple does own up and fix those units because like bumpgate its pretty obvious its the hardware that is at fault.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[bemymonkey]

Why do you people keep buying laptops with tiny cooling systems and dedicated graphics cards with dozens of Watts of TDP? I stopped buying those damned things years ago and haven't had to replace a machine since then.

Reliable onboard Intel graphics > Hot-headed dedicated graphics

Graphically intensive work (and gaming) should be done on desktops.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[tmosley]

I don't think you have ever owned a Mac there, friend.

One of the primary selling points is their longevity. I have two Macs from 2006-7 that I still use on a regular basis. I'm typing this on a 2007 model now. Finally had to shelve my 2003 model a few years ago as it can't handle playing high res video.

As an amusing anecdote, I will tell you about my experience with Mac vs PC in a laboratory environment. My lab has always been all Mac, even before I got there. I was allowed to get a new iMac back in 2008 as I needed a higher resolution screen to do graphics manipulation on electron micrographs. A couple of years later, another member of our lab wanted a new computer, but insisted on a PC (he had to run some stats software and couldn't into boot camp). So we got him one. A couple of years later, he wanted another one, complaining that his had slowed down so much it was unusable. I was still using my 2008 model, and it was running like a champ. It still works fine, so far as I know, as I have since moved on. Also of note is that we had another Mac from the early 90's running our HPLC, which still works, though that probably isn't a fair comparison as we never used it for anything else.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[tmosley]

Yup. I buy Macs for their longevity. If they stopped working after three years, you might as well buy a PC for far less and get the same lifespan.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[TheRaven64]

The Sale of Goods Act in the UK requires that goods are suitable for the purpose for which sold and must function in this manner, in normal use, for a period which is expected for the class of product. This electronic devices, unless explicitly stated before the time of sale (i.e. placing text clearly in the advert saying 'this device has a shorter useable life than others of its class'), this is six years. For other devices, such as kitchen appliances, it can be 10-20 years, during which the manufacturer is obliged to provide service for all faults that are not directly caused by the owner. The EU warranty law actually gives you weaker protection than the UK law, but feel free to keep boycotting UK companies because of that if it makes you feel better...

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[MightyYar]

Yeah, I'm not an expert by any means (I simply inherited the kitchen), but it seems like they keep two sets of everything... dishes, silverware, shelf space, dishwashers, sinks, refrigerators, ovens... just about everything is duplicated - my understanding is that is to avoid cross-"contamination". All of the major appliances and many house lights are also either on timers or have Sabbath timers built-in. I have been de-timering my house since we first moved in :) At first it was quite freaky, as some of the timers are mechanical and the house was unoccupied through a couple of power outages, so the timers got out of sync. Things like the dishwasher suddenly kicking on at 4AM...

I gotta tell you, having two of everything is pretty sweet. No "emergency" appliance repairs, LOL... though the other fridge did not come with the house so we only have one of those - or maybe they had some way to share the fridge space.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter

[Crosshair84]

Don't get me started on that "Green" solder. That stuff causes so many failures it isn't even funny. The old box camera CCTV security cameras that were made before "green"solder was used would often last over a decade. There are some B&W cameras at one facility still in service that have manufacture dates on them from 1993 when the facility first opened, 20 years of trouble free operation. Only reason I was in the housing for those cameras was to clean the lenses and re-focus.

The newer stuff? Some specimens last as little as two years, 4-5 seems to be the average. Bust one apart and guess what you find? Just like you said, broken solder joints or tin whiskers.

Yea, lead paint in kids toys is a bad idea, but guess what politicians who mandated lead-free solder? Sometimes lead is used in things for VERY GOOD REASONS. In this case, using leaded solder effectively solves the tin whisker problem in most use cases. Any environmental savings by using lead-free solder is more than offset by the decreased lifespan of equipment.

I know people that this has happened to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thankfully, I was there to tell them "I told you so."

What's the big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

MacBooks are mostly used for appearance. Surely, the hipsters can go to a coffee shop with one that doesn't have a working GPU.

History

[Sponge Bath]

Apple has shown they will replace whatever is necessary, if there is a defect. When the Nvidia 8400M chip was defective (material in chip package caused solder ball fracture due to thermal expansion), they replaced main boards. Dell used the same chip in XPS laptops (I had one and it did die), and supplied the same fix. Of course, in that instance they got some reimbursement from Nvidia.

Smart corporations know to do the right thing or take a righteous bitch slapping from consumers and lawyers.

Re:History

[Mark4ST]

The problem is that Quanta (they build system boards for Apple's laptop division) has never been able to properly do a ball grid array. The problem is not the chips or cooling, it's the "good enough" techniques Quanta uses to attach them to to a system board. If a ball grid array is done properly, it can be quite robust-- Quanta doesn't seem to care about longevity of the product, and hasn't for a number of years.

Quanta's quality problems are even more dire when you see that they manufacture about one third of the world's laptop system boards.

Please see Quanta and ball grid array.

Re:History

[Sponge Bath]

The problem is not the chips or cooling, it's the "good enough" techniques Quanta uses to attach them to to a system board.

The case I described had a detailed investigation by Nvidia, who claimed responsibility and reported the materials problem in the chip package. They payed hundreds of millions to settle. The chip in question was used by multiple vendors, all of which had the same failures.

Given those facts, it is hard to see how you come to the conclusion Apple/Quanta is responsible.

Score: -1, Flamebait

[danaris]

"Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the GPU fails?"

Seriously?

Apple has a history of acknowledging and providing free fixes for issues of this magnitude, if they're really affecting a significant percentage of the population. I've been the beneficiary of such a fix in the past myself.

Hell, that's even mentioned in the linked article:

Mid–2011 iMacs with AMD Radeon HD 6970 graphics cards experienced similar failures and in August of 2013, Apple initiated a Graphics Card Replacement Program for the computers, replacing the graphics cards of affected iMacs at no cost.

So with the MacRumors article having only come out yesterday, it seems pretty aggressively snide to be suggesting that Apple's going to ignore the issue.

Dan Aris

Re:Score: -1, Flamebait

[ssimpson]

Mainstreaming reporting started in the last few days. The issue has been reported consistently for nearly a year. I and many other impact users have reported faults in stores, reported via Apple Product Feedback in forums and written to Tim Cook to complain. Not only do they ignore the issues reported on the forum but they also delete posts with links to online forums, news stories and petitions. Nice work Apple.....

Apple do little on the issue and offer you a (paid for) repair service to fix this systemic fault. The repair being a replacement board that many users report fails again anyway.

Re:Score: -1, Flamebait

[puto]

Iphone 4 Antennae issue, at first they denied it, then they said you were holding it wrong, then they sent you a rubber bumper for it instead of replacing it....

Re:Score: -1, Flamebait

[thegarbz]

Seriously?

Apple has a history of acknowledging and providing free fixes for issues of this magnitude, if they're really affecting a significant percentage of the population. I've been the beneficiary of such a fix in the past myself.

Hell, that's even mentioned in the linked article:

Except when they think they can get away with it. They are one of the better corporate citizens but then the Vatican is the symbol for all things good and righteous as well right? They have been repeatedly sued in Europe about warranty practices, have been caught denying problems and then flat out mass deleting customer complaints on their forums (like with the LG screen issue), and even the NVIDIA GPU issue that plagued a few computers they denied everything until NVIDIA eventually took the blame, after which they were all to happy to do warranty replacements and pass on the costs.

I'm not an apple defender, but...

[damn_registrars]

Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the GPU fails?

That doesn't sound any different from any other manufacturer. The GPU on the laptop is, after all, soldered into the laptop motherboard. Even though is it "just the GPU" it isn't something that can be replaced on its own. I don't know why we should expect Apple to have a different standard for customer service and expected system longevity.

2011 Refurbs

[ghack]

Some early/late 2011 refurbs have been popping up on the Apple Refurb Store occasionally still (although there are none on there now there was some several weeks ago). My guess is these are machines Apple is replacing for folks with AppleCare and then they are replacing the logic board and battery and reselling them as refurbs.

I have a late 2011 (a work machine with applecare) and have never seen any issues.

Can doing a lot of Ruby on Rails cause this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit, I'm getting really worried now. I've got a 2011 MacBook Pro and I do so much Ruby on Rails and JavaScript. I wake up at 4 am every day and then I put on my fedora, my anime t-shirt and I write Ruby on Rails and JavaScript libraries until 3 am the next day. Sometimes I don't even eat and urinate, but that's beside the point.

Could all my hardcore Rubying be causing my MacBook Pro to die? I do push it pretty hard. A lot of the coding I'm doing is webscale. I even use NoSQL I'm dealing with so much data. My web app's logging subsystem logs almost 2 GB of data a month. When you're dealing with a lot of data like that a superpowerful database like Mongo then I can understand my poor little MacBook having a hard time coping. Maybe I'm pushing her too hard?

I can't just ease up though. I've got so many Ruby on Rails web apps to write and so many JavaScript libraries to craft. This is a life or death situation for me. I don't want it to be a life or death situation for my MacBook either. We've been through so much! I remember writing my very first line of code ever on my laptop. It was a Ruby code and it made me feel really good. Now I'm an accomplished software architect with numerous Web 2.0 web sites under my belt like for the local veterinarian and the herbal store down the street.

Now I really don't know what to do. I'm so confused. I want my MacBook to live forever because it has become part of me. But I need to use her, too. I need her to do my Ruby on Rails coding and my JavaScript programming. I need to use my NoSQL DB but if it hurts my MacBook Pro, do I really want to use it? I just don't know any more.

It's not just Apple...

[trparky]

It's not just Apple that's had an issue with this particular problem. HP has had an issue with their GPUs failing on their motherboards too in their notebooks.

I'm of the opinion now that notebooks just don't belong having high-end GPUs in them. Notebooks have always had a history of cooling issues because of a variety of issues from inadequate fans or other various issues. Now let's stick the equivalent of a space heater in the device and let's see what happens. I'm really surprised that this sort of thing isn't happening more often to more brands of notebooks.

Let's face it, a notebook is a portable device with very cramped internals. It's like it's become a form of art to find out just how much more stuff we can cram into an even smaller space. A notebook is a portable device, it's not meant to be your one and only device. If you want to be playing games, get a desktop; not a notebook.

Re:Pay only 3 times the real value

[umafuckit]

Motherboard failure happed to me with a Mac Mini only one month after the warranty expired. The problem was that the epoxy used on the boards when they were made was in short supply, so a substitute resin was used on some to keep production up. Apple wanted $499 for a new board. I never bought another Apple product again. If your MacBook Pro died. Find out what it will cost to replace the board. After your shock go look for a new machine. Apple price gouges the aftermarket.

I have the opposite story. I brought my MBP in to the Apple store because it was over-heating and I asked them to change the fans. They refused (for some reason) but they gave me a free motherboard replacement instead (or at least they claimed they did). This fixed the problem for a while but the over-heating came back eventually. I then paid to have the fans changed, which meant it ran quieter because the bearings were shot. Still over-heated, though.

For people impacted by this issues

[ssimpson]

Join the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2011mbp/

Keep up to date with the news articles: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eb-f4R0rWNfK5gPPw4O38bCJZUh5zLTjxj3qSKtqXkA/edit

Mail Tim Cook and express your frustration, politely: tcook[at]apple.com

Sign the petition: https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/timothy-d-cook-replace-or-fix-all-early-2011-macbook-pro-with-graphics-failure

Quality standard were different 30 years ago

[Anonymous Coward]

A refrigerator from 30 years ago was built to last. Modern appliances have every penny that could be saved taken into account.

That said, a 30 year old refrigerator isn't nearly as energy efficient as a modern one. You might be surprised to learn that a new one might pay for itself in two years from the savings in energy alone.

Is the root cause overheating???

[nbritton]

What is the root cause? I drive a 32" LCD TV with my Early 2011 MBP, it worked flawlessly in Lion, but Mavericks I have notice many glitches... I just assumed it was Apple's reworking of the multiple monitor code that was flaky. I seem to recall these machines have dual video drivers. If it's the internal ATI Radeon GPU that is faulty, can you force it into internal graphics mode? Or vice versa?

Is heat a factor? If so, Apple should be able to tweak the cooling thresholds with a firmware update.

Whew... almost worried.

[Lumpy]

It is only the 15 and 13 inch models. the 17" models do not have the same problems. That makes me happy as my 17" is my workhorse. The only laptop you could buy at the time with a Matte 1920X1080 screen and had decent hardware build. All other brand laptops made in 2011 were garbage with low res or the crap shiny screens.

poor fan boys

[Lawrence_Bird]

guess they wish they had another fan? Those same fan boys want people to believe that we should pay a significant premium for "Apple build quality," yet there are more than enough stories like this one that show Apple build quality (and/or design) is not worth a premium over the likes of Lenovo, HP, etc. Of course, those same fanboys who would trash those companies if the failure was in one of their laptops will simply blame AMD and not Apple for this event.

Re:Since its all the same

[JTinMSP]

Why yes, you can just replace the graphics cards and other internals oh-so-easily on all non-Apple laptops. *facepalm*

Consumer rights

[FaxeTheCat]

So this is a reason why some countries have consumer rights protecting them from this kind of problem.
Where I live, there is a mandatory five year protection against manufacturing defects.
As it happens, my sons 2011 MacBook Pro failed last week. Did not boot. Got it back yesterday with a new motherboard. No cost.

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Nobody pays you for downtime; but vendors with 'enterprise' hopes certainly do offer warranties (usually as an option, not a baseline) that make it very clear that the customer considers time-to-fix to be a serious problem. 4 hour onsite 24/7/365 tends not to be the cheap warranty; but offering it can be attractive to customers who value their time.

Apple is sort of an oddball in that their base level of service tends to be quite high (they have their share of horror stories; but given that the consumer-level onsite support options are 'Apple Store' or 'get fucked over by the Geek Squad'...); but even their relatively expensive products don't really have anything else on the table. The various PC OEMs tend to offer service tiers all the way from 'active hostility' to 'helicopter parent'.