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New 3D Printer Can Print With Carbon Fiber
cold fjord sends this news from Popular Mechanics:
"[M]aking custom racecar parts out of carbon fiber is daunting. The only real method available is CNC machining, an expensive and difficult process that requires laying pieces by hand. To improve the process, [Gregory Mark] looked to 3D printing. But nothing on the market could print the material, and no available materials could print pieces strong enough for his purposes. So Mark devised his own solution: the MarkForged Mark One, the world's first carbon fiber 3D printer. Mark debuted his Boston area-based startup MarkForged at SolidWorks World 2014 in San Diego with a working prototype. The Mark One can print in carbon fiber, fiberglass, nylon and PLA (a thermoplastic). ... The main advantage of the Mark One: It can print parts 20 times stiffer and five times stronger than ABS, according to the company. It even has a higher strength-to-weight ratio than CNC-machined aluminum. ... Mark says that he imagines this machine is for anybody who wants to print in a material as strong as aluminum. Beyond racecars, it could be useful to industries like prosthetics."
This is the first materials advance I've seen in ages, bar superficial things like the ability to make ridiculously expensive full-colour prototypes of things that need moulding to make en masse.
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
It isn't going to have the strength of carbon fibre done properly so its useless for the types of applications where that strength matters and it isn't going to have the distinctive CF look so its useless for aesthetic applications.
There must be another CNC than the one I'm familiar with: "CNC machining, an expensive and difficult process that requires laying pieces by hand"
I think someone doesn't know what they are talking about. I don't know if you can CNC machine carbon fibre - maybe you could make a carbon fibre reinforced solid block and CNC machine that - but most carbon fibre parts are made by that expensive and difficult hand-made process of laying sheets of woven fibres and epoxying them into place.
"The only real method available is CNC machining, an expensive and difficult process that requires laying pieces by hand."
CNC means Computer Numerical Controlled, which isn't remotely similar to laying out sheets of resin-bonded carbon fiber by hand. Or are they forming blocks of fiber made out of a lot of bonded sheets, and then CNC-milling them into shapes? That seems like a pointless waste. Very confusing sentence, there.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Any idea what the asking price for this thing would be?
Oh now come ON, how the fuck does anyone with even a passing knowledge of CF production get the summary so fuckign incredibly wrong? CNC would be to create the MOLD. You dont bloody well layer CF by a goddamn CNC and most of the CF for racecars is layered over the mold by hand.
Now the idea of 3D printing CF isnt a bad idea - the secret to CF strength is getting the strands in the right direction and the resins used / curing time. I can see how this could work and it is somethign to check out. But holy fuck editors, get the goddamn summary right!
Tried machining fibreglass :), dust is a bit of a problem.
And if you machine CF, you cut through the fibres and lose the strength.
To get around that you shape a plastic core using CNC, then you have to lay the CF over the core by hand. This bypasses those problems, you can print the core then precision lay the CF thread by thread.
Another (later poster) got that wrong as well, this *is* as good as hand laid for most applications.
Unless this layers carbon fibers + resin + hardener making the epoxy bond immediately, chopping them up to put in filament to be deposited by heat destroys any strength CF has.
The people at Makerbot definitely will not be losing sleep over this.
Now, sintered Iconel in a home unit... now that is when to worry, because metal can make useful, non-kitchy items.
This one is also pretty spectacular: "But nothing on the market could print the material, and no available materials could print pieces strong enough for his purposes."
Vapor-hardware is a thing. And you're lookin' at it.
The general Slashdot audience has many "tech-blindspots" and advanced composites is definately one of them.
"Pre-order" has become code for, "Welcome to town, Rube!"
Just you fucking wait.
We're half way to printing a Gallardo.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Unless this layers carbon fibers + resin + hardener making the epoxy bond immediately
Actually it does. Check out the video on the website:
I need to know these things...for scientific purposes..
Beyond racecars, it could be useful to industries like prosthetics
Carbon-fiber bicycle frames are very labor-intensive to manufacture which is a major reason why they're so expensive. This technology could bring the price down to the cost of an aluminum frame, or maybe even lower.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
it just looks like a normal fdm printer to me.
and filament with cf bits in it is already available too..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Carbon fibre 3d printer + printable firearms = victory
Pre-packaged unprinted mai order firearms, plug into the point and push the big green with the label "Begin Revolution".
"[M]aking custom racecar parts out of carbon fiber is daunting. The only real method available is CNC machining, an expensive and difficult process that requires laying pieces by hand.
For a site with nerds this is greatly over excoriated, once you make a "mold" the remaining process of layering in the carbon is so easy even a caveman can do it.
The molds require a CNC machine which is obviously automated, if you don't have one or can't afford one , you can make a template using clay/plaster or whatever else [I use a combo of wood, metal mesh, clay and or plaster to get the shape] and then taking the part to a foundry [depending on the size of the piece I can actually do that myself as well] to have the mold made into metal.
It isn't a ridiculously impossible process. The 3c-printing tech is a coll idea itself, but /. editors continue to write long drawn out articles filled with waste..
Every time a new 3D printer is announced, the first thing I check on the specifications list is the bed size. This one is bigger than most, but still too small. It can print items 12"x6"x6"....perhaps enough for visual accessories like center console trim, mirrors, and hood vents, but you can't do door panels, or major body parts like the bumper.....let alone a carbon monocoque chassis. So tone down the delusions of printing a Lamborghini on your desktop for now. I can think of some non-automotive uses though: casings for electronics, and custom firearms.
Birth certificates That should cause a big enough shit storm.
I suspect that another fairly straightforward idea (automating the laying of carbon fiber in a 3D printer), and something every 3D printer would have done within a few years anyway, will be locked up in patent hell for 20 years. MarkForge itself will likely be bought by a big player like Stratasys, who will then ship $500k printers to the auto manufacturers.
I suspect certain aircraft parts could be printed this way. You could print boats with this too. Expensive but accurate and any dimension you want.
I'll admit, I laughed.
More jump cuts and less substance than a Micheal Bay movie. That's an impressive development in itself!
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
I was expecting something large enough to print a seat, fender, or wing. My company has a carbon fiber fab division, this could be interesting, but we would need a print volume of at least 4' x 4'x 3'
More jump cuts and less substance than a Micheal Bay movie. That's an impressive development in itself!
Obligatory *Michael...
But can you still get $12 a seat for the showing?
Suborbital [spaceflight] is the special olympics of spaceflight. - Rei
Irony is, 3D printing is CNC.
Can imagine the wailing and nashing of all the 'concerned' mothers about a printer that can print a gun that can shoot more than once :-(
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
There's still a way.
Use the thing to print parts of a mould. Assemble mould. Place in swimming pool. Cover mould in aluminium sheet. Put long runs of shot cord in pool. Ignite shot cord - BOOM! Explosive formed parts!
Stop laughing - someone actually made a boat hull in a similar way with a plywood mould a few decades ago.
My point is that people shouldn't limit themselves to one process and this stuff could be very useful in a chain. Patternmaking for metal casting can be difficult by hand and not so much with 3D printing. If the pattern gets used a lot you may want it to be made of out something durable like carbon fibre reinforced plastic.
bar superficial things like the ability to make ridiculously expensive full-colour prototypes of things that need moulding to make en masse.
Superficial? Hardly. Tooling is incredibly expensive for molded plastic products and 3D printers make producing small quantities of plastic parts MUCH cheaper in many cases. If you think this is unimportant or trivial then you are wrong. This is a Very Big Deal.
no it isn't. CNC removes material.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
My new Gundam Style body suite or cyborg army exoskeletons. Bring it on Cyborgz.
Technically the CNC stands for Computer Numerically Controlled, which doesn't seem to make a restriction to additive or subtractive processes.
Though it should be noted that a traditional CNC mill is subtractive, and 3D printing is additive.
I think the useful quote from the site is this:
The incredible strength of carbon fiber comes from the long, continuous strands that carry load down the entire part. This is why space shuttles, rockets, and Formula 1 cars are constructed from continuous strand carbon. And it’s how we print. Don’t settle for plastic with a dash of chopped carbon fill. Longer is stronger.
No, the real strength from carbon fiber is not from the length of the fibers, but from their small diameter. The carbon-carbon bonds are so strong that the failure point of bulk fiber is from a defect in the material. A nick, scratch, notch, etc. in a material serves as a starting point for crack propagation. The smaller you get the strands of fiber, the smaller and fewer the defects in that fiber. A load bearing section of fiber with little to no defects has a far higher tensile strength than a section of the same material with large defects in it.
Long fibers may be stronger than chopped fibers in practice, but I think that would be more likely due to fiber/matrix delamination issues. The continuos fibers can delaminate from the epoxy and still have enough contact with the epoxy to carry load. A chopped strand that delaminates will effectively stop carrying any load.
Ah, I think I get what you're trying to explain to me, you're saying that injection moulding and other trad methods can be beat on price, by current printers, for niche (short-run) products? Is this the case?
Correct. There are very large tooling costs that have to be amortized into the piece price for traditional methods. The cost of the plastic itself is generally only a concern at high volumes because it is very low compared with the cost of tooling at low volumes. Tooling and overhead are fixed costs (same price whether you produce 1 or 1 million) whereas plastic and direct labor are variable costs (same price per unit regardless of number produced). Piece price = Variable Costs + (Fixed Costs / Number of units produced) Since tooling for injection molding can easily be tens of thousands of dollars for each product, you need to produce a very large quantity to make the fixed costs per unit low. Get the unit volume high enough and the fixed costs become a pretty good approximation of zero.
Carbon fiber dicks. Soon we will have carbon fiber fucking dicks due to this technology. Please use it to make guns instead. Thank You!
This is very interesting and informative. Thanks for the reply. I didn't cite the post to prove the truth of the matter you're asserting, strong or not, but to shift the discussion away from the chopping up carbon statement to something more relevant, like the rest of what you posted. I should have been more clear.
Since it appears that you have some expertise in the matter at hand, what are your thoughts one the loss of laying the strands vertically for different vectors of rigidity? What I mean is, it looks like the current strands are laid down on the horizontal plane and just layered on top, losing the ability for strands to run lengthwise. Given that compromise, what kind of products would this printer be good at printing, which, not so good?
Thanks!
A CNC mill is subtractive. So's a CNC lathe. A CNC 3D printer - computer numerically controlled, right? - is additive.
Most (all?) of the hobby 3D printers consume GCODE files (with some custom control commands), which are the same as CNC machines.
I thought I'd check your signature, now that is irony!
As the other posts have shown, CNC is a system for control. 3D printers utilise this same process. The real distinction is between additive and subtractive manufacturing methods. That's unrelated to CNC systems.