Not Just Healthcare.gov: NASA Has 'Significant Problems' With $2.5B IT Contract

I hate Dice.com by pHZero · 2014-02-07 01:55 · Score: 1, Insightful

And I hate beta

Re:I hate Dice.com by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:12 · Score: 3, Funny

Apparently Dice contracted to HP to do the beta site.
Re:I hate Dice.com by Ardyvee · 2014-02-07 02:18 · Score: 0

It honestly still looks to clean with too much white and empty space. Honest. Besides that, I have minor complaints about the beta.

--
I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
Re:I hate Dice.com by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:40 · Score: 2, Informative

Not to worry fellas. They're LISTENING to us (and greatly value our input). Timothy PROMISED!
Just like they've been listening to us for months now, as exactly NOTHING has changed with the beta.

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Re:I hate Dice.com by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

And I'm sure it wasn't Timothy who modded this thread "0 off-topic." No, he's far too busy listening to us and implementing our suggestions to have time to do downmods.

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Re:I hate Dice.com by soliter · 2014-02-07 03:05 · Score: 0

Come on Dice, you can't be serious about the Beta, right?
Re:I hate Dice.com by CastrTroy · 2014-02-07 03:09 · Score: 2, Informative

The only really big problem that I've encountered is that I can't just jump to the comments I posted by going to my comment history. The only link on the comments goes directly to the entire article, not to the specific comment I posted, making it difficult to tell if someone was replied to my post. Perhaps it can be done, but I can't find the functionality anywhere.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:I hate Dice.com by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-07 03:16 · Score: 3, Informative

And I'm sure it wasn't Timothy who modded this thread "0 off-topic." No, he's far too busy listening to us and implementing our suggestions to have time to do downmods.
As someone who's been hit by an editor downmod(I suspect a certain slashvertisement poster), 0 is a bit high for that. Getting dropped from a +5 to a -1 without seeing anything in-between is a pretty clear sign. Some people with mod points are tired of beta complaints, and it's not unreasonable to assume that they're starting to act.
I don't think malice is required to explain that moderation.
Re:I hate Dice.com by ColdWetDog · 2014-02-07 04:42 · Score: 0

Not to worry. It will be April. Soon.
Ahh. Ponies!

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:I hate Dice.com by dave562 · 2014-02-07 04:44 · Score: 0

I have mod points, I am tired of beta comments. I have made my own beta comments, but I am also understanding of IT projects. Yesterday the editors responded to the complaints. To continue complaining at this point is childish. We need to give them time to prove that they are being honest. "Trust but verify."
It is quite clear that if the site significantly changes, people are going to leave it in droves. Continued "me to" threats and rants to that effect are not going to produce any further results.
Re:I hate Dice.com by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-07 05:06 · Score: 1

Eh. I think you're missing the point. The target for the protest posts isn't the editors, their hands are probably tied, but people like you. To make beta as big a problem for people who want to keep using the site as it is for the people who can't stand it. Kind of like an e(remember the 90s?) sit-in.
Re:I hate Dice.com by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 05:29 · Score: 0

not fixed width anymore, and comment threads are more visible
Re:I hate Dice.com by dave562 · 2014-02-07 06:39 · Score: 1

I think you missed the point that I am making. People do not like the current beta format. I am one of those people. The purpose of the "protest" was to force the site owners to acknowledge that feedback. They have acknowledged it and laid out their roadmap.
To continue to whine about it shows immaturity. Things do not change instantaneously. To expect that shows immaturity. We have to give them time to prove that they really are listening and paying attention to the feedback.
Re:I hate Dice.com by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-07 07:15 · Score: 1

I'm not sure what maturity helps either.
Re:I hate Dice.com by dave562 · 2014-02-07 07:30 · Score: 1

Let me help you with that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
Re:I hate Dice.com by karmawarrior · 2014-02-07 07:42 · Score: 1

Quick! Leave Slashdot while you still can! Don't post any more comments, just go! That goes for everyone considering posting a complaint about Beta in an unrelated discussion, ALL OF YOU, leav... uh I mean "boycott", Slashdot today!

--
KMSMA (WWBD?)
Re:I hate Dice.com by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-07 08:21 · Score: 1

Congratulations, you were completely smug and superior in how incredibly unhelpful you were. Congratulations on being both useless and annoying.
Re:I hate Dice.com by dave562 · 2014-02-07 08:27 · Score: 1

troll hardar!
Re:I hate Dice.com by i+kan+reed · 2014-02-07 08:35 · Score: 1

Even more useless. Keep providing no value to anyone. That's a good use of your time.
Re:I hate Dice.com by Darinbob · 2014-02-07 09:25 · Score: 1

Yes, huge amounts of empty space. For my current window, these comments go almost all the way to the right, with a once inch white border to the left. Under beta where were smaller borders but were on both sides, plus a huuuge chunk of empty space to the right, space reserved for ads and polls and fluff (and thus anything underneath where that fluff ended is let white). So I was basically left with a bit less than half my window width being used for story and comments, a complete waste of real estate.
It was weird that if you make your window wider, the borders would also grow in width! That's bizarre, if I grow the window it's because I want to see more data.
Other things just got in the way of really participating. Ie, I found no way to reply to any comment without entering my own title. Maybe it was a bug and it forgot to fill in a title with a default, or maybe they really expect you to type something new each time, but either way it was clumsy. There was also no obvious way to start a new thread. User's slashdot numbers were hidden, though that's sort of irrelevant it was enough to make things feel "off", like it was some generic forum. There wasn't a bold title bar across the top of each comment, plus indentation with nesting was extremely tiny, making all the comments just seem to run together.
Re:I hate Dice.com by Darinbob · 2014-02-07 09:30 · Score: 2

I think this beta has done some good things though.
It has brought together all ranks of Slashdot into a common cause. Libertarians are holding hands with Greens, web devs are joining with hardware hackers, emacs users and vi users are hugging, bitcoin and dogecoin users are singing in unison, the racist guy and the goatse guy are friending each other. All of our mutual dislike of each other has been put aside in united solidarity against BETA.
Re:I hate Dice.com by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 12:24 · Score: 0

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet. (Copy-paste the html from here so links don't get mangled!)
On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design. Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.
If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this in a new tab. After seeing that, click here to return to classic Slashdot.
We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott
Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta
http://slashdot.org/recent - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories
Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.
-----=====##### LINKS #####=====-----
Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415
Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441
Alternative Slashdot: http://altslashdot.org (thanks Okian Warrior (537106))
Re:I hate Dice.com by issicus · 2014-02-08 02:06 · Score: 1

you're beta

Typical.... by Lumpy · 2014-02-07 01:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is what happens when you under fund the IT budget, and put in management positions MORONS that do not have a strong IT background. If the IT director can not build a pc by hand from parts and then not only install the OS, but all the drivers and then configure it completely, then configure a Cisco switch and router, he is not fit to be in a management role of IT.

Yet corporations and the Government instead put people with ZERO clue about IT to begin with in the role of management and upper management.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Re:Typical.... by DickBreath · 2014-02-07 02:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is a massive failure on several levels of management, and in several different ways of fail.

I think you are asking for the wrong skills of someone in a management role of IT. There are people who can build a PC, install the OS and drivers yet not be able to code their way out of a paper bag. In fact trained monkeys can do that, and there are plenty of certified monkeys. I don't care if the manager can build a PC. I care if the manager knows the difference between hardware and software.

Has the manager of a development group ever written any software in his life?

Another massive fail is that they do not hire the brightest people. They also encourage a culture that repels the brightest people. Bureaucracy. Red tape. Dress codes. Discouraging and even punishing creativity. Encouraging brown nosing and politics. No wonder they can't build an application even with billion dollar budgets.

No amount of money can fix the problems I described. No amount. Give them ten times the budget, but don't change the real problems and the project will still fail. They don't get this. There are no signs that they ever will get this.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Re:Typical.... by Rockoon · 2014-02-07 02:08 · Score: 3, Insightful

This is what happens when you under fund the IT budget
Throwing $2.5 billion at "desktops, laptops, computer equipment and end-user services such as help desk and data backup" doesnt sound like underfunding IT to me.

--
"His name was James Damore."
Re:Typical.... by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2014-02-07 02:08 · Score: 2, Insightful

If the IT Director could do all that the rest of the board wouldn't understand a thing he said. An IT Directors job is to translate technical concerns into the Management Moron spoken in the adminisphere so the rest of the board can make informed decisions without knowing what the hell they're doing.
Welcome to Management One on One

--
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Re:Typical.... by alen · 2014-02-07 02:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

having worked in the government before, half the problems were people insisting their ancient programs work on the new systems and a refusal to change to current versions
i remember i had people saying that they can't use anything other than Lotus or Wordperfect. then complained they couldn't open MS Word documents
Re:Typical.... by Bigbutt · 2014-02-07 02:16 · Score: 3, Informative

Dress Codes? Man, we didn't have dress codes when I worked at NASA 10 years ago. That's sad.
[John]

--
Shit better not happen!
Re:Typical.... by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 02:17 · Score: 4, Interesting

Agreed. As a former U.S. govt. employee, I can honestly say that the red tape is 70% of why I left. Between security ("IA") policies that gave no consideration to productivity, and purchasing requirements that ignored opportunity costs and red-tape-compliance labor costs, I just didn't feel like I'd get as much software developed during my career as I wanted to.
Re:Typical.... by ebh · 2014-02-07 02:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

No, this is what happens when you underTHINK the IT budget. HP and other services organizations want you to believe that all you have to do is write them a check, and all your IT troubles will magically disappear. Instead, what really happens is that all your problems are still there, with one more layer of bureaucratic delays and miscommunications thrown in. The company I work for outsourced their IT to HP, going so far as to sell a lot of their server infrastructure (the actual hardware) to HP, and it's been a disaster, only part of which is HP's fault.
Re:Typical.... by Crudely_Indecent · 2014-02-07 02:26 · Score: 4, Interesting

In my life I've had only one boss that respected IT personnel. None of them were technical, and had some strange image in their heads of a magical fairy land where us IT folk would wave our wands and shit would get done.
I had one non-programmer boss who proposed an amazing CONTACT FORM to her bosses, and I was required to be there so I could take notes and implement it. After watching her presentation, I was asked if I had any questions or comments. I had comments. Gems like: "Why am I putting EACH FIELD on a separate page? That's going to cause the users to submit the form 10 times before they're done" and "I'm supposed to look these addresses up in the CRM, but the CRM guys have plainly stated over the years that they will never ever Ever EVER let anyone query their DB, did something change?".
By the end of the meeting, the contact form was cancelled and my new task was to make a slideshow screensaver for someone's special project.

--

"Lame" - Galaxar
Re:Typical.... by manquer · 2014-02-07 02:28 · Score: 1

Welcome to Management One on One
Management getting some!
Re:Typical.... by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 02:29 · Score: 1

I guess the poster didn't really claim to work for NASA. So maybe that don't actually have dress codes?
Re:Typical.... by DickBreath · 2014-02-07 02:47 · Score: 1

Just to be clear, I have never worked for the government. But I have friends who are 'permatemp' contractors. I've seen their offices and culture. No thanks.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Re:Typical.... by Dcnjoe60 · 2014-02-07 03:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

I would counter that this is reallly a problem with government IT contracts. In many government entities, at least the ones I've worked with, new projects are assigned to contractors/consultants and the existing staff handles maintenance. Often, the winning bidders don't even have the proper skill set and the contract includes training their employees. This practice started heavily after tightening budgets. Outsourcing was seen as a way to cut costs and in the short term it does, but not over the life of the project. The problem with this approach is that it leads to bloat and feature creep. The more the consultatnts can get you to expand your project, the more they make. Often, they tend to underbid the contract and overprice modifications, of which there are always many (if management new exactly what they wanted, they probably wouldn't need the contractors).
Prior to this, government entities had their own programming staff that was familiar with the business, the culture and what needed to be done. If a project failed, there were employees under your direct control that you could hold accountable. If the internal budget for the project was $X and it was now about to go over that, then there was some explaining to do. Employees worked to keep on budget and on time, because they, too, had their necks on the line.
For entities that still use their own internal staff, they tend to have less grandious projects, but they tend to finish on time and under budget, or at least closer to those two goals.
There is a myth that fewer employees means a more efficient and less costly entity. The reality is different. The myth is only true if the organization were over staffed and under performing to begin with, which is a management problem, not a worker problem.
The most common reason given for outsouricng is cost savings. But, outsourcing has shown, time and time again, that it is more costly in the long run. Contractors are paid more for the job than employees and the firm has a profit figured in. (Look at Snowden, he was paid double of what the equivelant network engineer that was a government employee was paid, plus the pay of his supervisors and the profit to the shareholders).
The second most common reason is that the existing staff doesn't have the skills needed. But again, history shows us that if the skills in question are really needed now, they will be needed in the future, too. Again, this is a management issue dealing with training, not a lack of worker skills. Besides, all of these skilless employees are going to need to somehow get the skills to maintain the software once it is turned over by the consultants.
Finally, the third reason is budget constraints. That is valid, however, only to the point that the projects are held to their actual budget. Since all of these projects that are outsourced tend to go way over budget and still have to be paid for because they are written as cost plus, claiming budget constraints is disengenous.
Managers do like contractors, because it gives them somebody external to blame for their own internal failures. It is a lot easier to fire a contractor than it is the person sitting in the cubicle for the past ten years.
In the end, if you want to reign in spending on a project (whether IT or otherwise), bringing it in house is shown to be the most economical way. OTOH, all of those mega consulting firms that lobby congress, don't let that message get out.
Re:Typical.... by Dcnjoe60 · 2014-02-07 03:14 · Score: 1

If the IT Director could do all that the rest of the board wouldn't understand a thing he said. An IT Directors job is to translate technical concerns into the Management Moron spoken in the adminisphere so the rest of the board can make informed decisions without knowing what the hell they're doing.
Welcome to Management One on One
No, an IT Director is there to ensure that the effectiveness of the organization's mission is maximized through the use of information technology. To accomplish that, he/she must do what you said, but that is not the role of the IT Director. (BTW, if this were for corporation, instead of government, the role would be to maximze shareholder value through the use of information technology).
Re:Typical.... by tsqr · 2014-02-07 03:15 · Score: 5, Informative

Throwing $2.5 billion at "desktops, laptops, computer equipment and end-user services such as help desk and data backup" doesnt sound like underfunding IT to me.
You're right; it wouldn't be, if that's what they were doing, which they aren't. TFA is pretty enlightening; you should read the first couple of pages.
This is an Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity contract with a potential worth of $2.5B. IDIQ means a phased program where whether the vendor gets to continue supplying products and services, depends on whether the customer is (1) satisfied with past performance, and (2) convinced that that the program is meeting its goals. This is not a case of "Here's $2.5 Billion. There's more where that came from; please do your best." If this ends up with $2.5B spent and goals not meant, then NASA will have seriously screwed up. That's the sort of result that IDIQ contracts are designed to prevent.
This contract is for more than computers, help desk and data backup; NASA wants to migrate from a balkanized IT structure to an enterprise structure, which is a massive cultural change. Unsurprisingly, the NASA managers whose empires consist of the disparate parts of the IT structure are not exactly embracing the new order of things.
Re:Typical.... by fulldecent · 2014-02-07 03:27 · Score: 2

Why hire a nerd who can build one system at a time?
Hire someone who writes the contract so HP doesn't get paid in the situation where they fuck up.

--
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Re:Typical.... by Bigbutt · 2014-02-07 03:34 · Score: 2

Okay. I was a contractor for 13 years at NASA Headquarters in downtown DC (bofh (at) hq (dot) nasa (dot) gov :) ). We (IT) spent our time in the Data Center (even got OSHA dinged for cubicles next to the air handlers). At HQ, the environment was pretty good. The main Government IT guy was damned smart and ahead of his time. When other NASA centers were shut down due to the ILoveYou virus, we were still up and running without a problem. So having all the centers using a single contractor for help desk and other IT stuff would be a huge task. The NASA centers are all over the country, not in one location.
[John]

--
Shit better not happen!
Re:Typical.... by Bigbutt · 2014-02-07 03:39 · Score: 3, Informative

As a contractor, I was always looking for work. One company I worked for when I was at Johns Hopkins APL would immediately "release" you if work ended. My manager came to me and said that when the contract ended in six months, I would be let go because they had no requirement for network engineers. Since looking for work while unemployed is more difficult than when employed, I immediately started looking for another job. That's when I went to work at NASA.
So I'm going to stretch my job out as much as possible since I like being able to eat regularly.
[John]

--
Shit better not happen!
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:46 · Score: 0

Another massive fail is that they do not hire the brightest people. They also encourage a culture that repels the brightest people. Bureaucracy. Red tape. Dress codes. Discouraging and even punishing creativity. Encouraging brown nosing and politics. No wonder they can't build an application even with billion dollar budgets.

It's obvious you never worked for NASA or its contractors nor have you ever set foot in one of the centers and met the people who work there.
Re:Typical.... by Bill_the_Engineer · 2014-02-07 03:55 · Score: 1

Don't worry it was quite obvious you didn't know your subject matter.

--
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:06 · Score: 0

purchasing requirements that ignored opportunity costs
That might be a tough demand for decision making process driven by lobbyists and partisanship. Budget windows are not sufficiently bendy and free of earmarks. A fear of failure of critical services, regulation and the non-profit nature of the activities drive the situation as well, leaving a selection of options of a single sort per purchasing decision.
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:06 · Score: 2

I just started a new job at a NASA contractor, and ACES is *awesome* compared to IT at Lockheed Martin. As an engineer, LM's IT did their best to get in the way and hamper productivity, including "demoting" me from an engineering laptop to a standard laptop even though I wrote and ran some of the most demanding software and would have benefited greatly from the i7 vs the low end i5 I ended up with. My formerly 15 minute desktop simulations stretched to 40 minutes apiece.
Oh, but you can bet LM saved a couple hundred dollars from the IT budget!
ACES, on the other hand, gave me pretty much the same beefy laptop I should have had at LM. Even better, they trust software developers with local admin, so I had my development environment set up in an hour, instead of waiting days to request non-standard software, wait for engineering management and legal to sign off on the request, then get a help desk technician to log in remotely and install subversion. That is not an exaggeration just to make LM look bad, that really is the process everyone has to go through.
Re:Typical.... by websitebroke · 2014-02-07 04:10 · Score: 2

The big boss types usually show up in a suit. The rest of us are anywhere from jeans and t-shirt to buisness casual depending on personal tastes.
Re:Typical.... by shipofgold · 2014-02-07 04:13 · Score: 2

You and I must work for the same company...sounds exactly like our experience.
The scary bit is HP is in the process of moving our corporate datacenter from our location to their location in Atlanta....once that is done how do we ever get rid of HP?
Re:Typical.... by ebh · 2014-02-07 04:19 · Score: 2

We had to fight HARD to keep our critical servers from being moved to Atlanta. There's plenty of bandwidth, but the latency would kill us. But every time we need anything, it's like Oliver Twist asking for more gruel.
Re:Typical.... by PPH · 2014-02-07 04:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

NASA wants to migrate from a balkanized IT structure to an enterprise structure, which is a massive cultural change.
Which is another way of enforcing a "one size fits all" IT support scheme. Everybody gets MS Office on Windows 8. You poor slobs that do embedded software development, highly demanding data analysis or have some peculiar h/w or s/w requirements, tough shit.
When you have a 'balkanized' IT structure, at least you have the opportunity to optimize platforms for their intended use. The problem is that you can't take advantage of a central maintenance and support department. You have little groups of people who specialize on these odd cases. And when things are done in house, its difficult to track these costs.
Now, turn it over to an outside contractor and the present you with an itemized bill for the oddball stuff. A bill for Real Money. And since they are motivated to maximize profits/minimize their costs, they soak you for the non standard configurations. Now, your management comes around with this monthly bill and starts pounding people over the head to explain their specialized needs or conform. Every damned quarter (or month). Pretty soon, you need to dedicate some direct staff to handle the exception documentation. Or spend half your life in meetings yourself.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Re:Typical.... by NoWhereMan · 2014-02-07 04:51 · Score: 1

It is possible that different Centers have different codes, but Dryden (or should I now say Armstrong) does not enforce a dress code. I wear a tie for personal reasons but that means I am overdressed.
ACES typically sends out low skill people who can swap parts. The brighter ones realize that their customers may be engineers who would be considered power users in any organization. When the ACES people listen to their customer, they frequently find a good solution. But then they have to go back to their pointy-haired-boss and explain what happened. Their is no escaping the bureaucracy though.
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:51 · Score: 0

so what? notepad is available on all systems. its the dillholes who push for "bigger, faster, stronger, newer" are responsible for enormous waste.
Re:Typical.... by jafac · 2014-02-07 05:27 · Score: 1

. . . or to put it more simply: a cash-gift to executive staff at HP, from congress grateful for a couple of bucks campaign contributions, all paid for by the taxpayer.

--

These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Re:Typical.... by tsqr · 2014-02-07 05:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

Is your comment based on an unfortunate personal experience? I have worked as an engineer for two aerospace behemoths, with tens of thousands of employees at locations spread out all over the country. In both cases, IT was centralized, and that brought with it a high degree of conformity with respect to operating systems and common software tools such as MS Office; however, the engineering types didn't have any trouble at all in obtaining, installing, and using whatever specialized tools (including alternative operating systems) they required to do their jobs. IT's part of that was limited to procurement.
I now work for a much smaller company (< 800 employees), and the situation is similar, if smaller in scale. Everybody uses MS Office. IT uses Landesk to roll out Windows updates, but they leave my Mac pretty much alone, and they don't give a crap about the Linux box under my desk. They're a service provider, and they just don't get involved with the technical tools I might need and use, beyond processing purchase orders.
Balkanization usually doesn't have anything to do with serving the needs of the users. It's mostly about empire building and job security. The local tyrant can screw you up just as effectively as the faceless guy in another state.
At any rate, none of this has anything to do with NASA's issues, which appear from TFA to result mostly from a lack of buy-in from middle management. By the way, that doesn't necessarily mean that middle management should be buying in; it just means that there appears to be a lot of infighting going on.
Re:Typical.... by sconeu · 2014-02-07 07:20 · Score: 2

I was subbed to LMSC for a while, and I can confirm that LM IT is a pain in the ass. Hell, logging in took at least 15 minutes, as all the management crapware on the system ran.
You wold literally log in, and then walk away for a cup of coffee.
And Engineers had to beg through 5 layers of management to get access to dev tools.

--
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Re:Typical.... by AmazingRuss · 2014-02-07 09:37 · Score: 1

I'm in the middle of a stint as a contractor. My PM keeps the red tape away from me and shields me from morons as much as he can. He's awesome, but this job still sucks SO bad. I am surrounded by people who can't find work anywhere else... they're like the inhabitants of Davey Jonses Locker in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies... growing into the chairs and office furniture, with no hope of escape. Helpless and hopeless. On the plus side, my moderate competence makes me a rock star around here.
I'll be glad when the contract is up. I want to run screaming out of the building every day, but the PM has taken care of me, so I have loyalty to him and his project.
Re:Typical.... by volmtech · 2014-02-07 11:58 · Score: 1

My son was a supply contract officer in the US Air force. After four years he declined to reenlist, instead he got a law degree and today is a contract analyst for a fortune 50 company. Competent people run from government employment.
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-08 00:27 · Score: 0

This!
I work in an environment exactly like this.
- "management" doesn't manage anything, they just pass the buck
- management is incompetent at technical issues
- management hires incompetent, non-technical people
- management promotes non-technical people like them
- management makes technical promises that the technical people cannot deliver on
- management is incompetent at keeping the customer happy
- management uses the failures as an evidence of a need for more of the same and hires more
- billions of dollars of taxpayer money at stake
- bureaucracy, red tape
- dress code
- punishing creativity
- politics and brown nosing
- nobody gets it
- job pays well
If I could find a similar job position in a different situation, I'd take it in a minute.
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-08 00:49 · Score: 0

I work at an aerospace behemoth, and IT is centralized, but completely inept at anything that isn't out of their playbook. Almost everything I've ever done is specialized, so I've always required special software in the different posistions I've held. Most of this stuff has to be special handled, even though it would be trivial to do otherwise. I dread getting computer refreshes because it means another opportunity for IT to completely hose my setup.
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-08 01:03 · Score: 0

Different LM division here. Sounds familiar. I can't even remove the useless shortcuts from my desktop that installers litter there because I don't have local admin rights. In some cases, where there is political infighting, we've had to wait years to get the software and resources we need just to be able to do our job. But they still want the job done, of course. Oh, and don't forget the hero mentality.
Re:Typical.... by PPH · 2014-02-08 05:13 · Score: 1

Is your comment based on an unfortunate personal experience? I have worked as an engineer for two aerospace behemoths,

Interesting. I worked for one as well.

the engineering types didn't have any trouble at all in obtaining, installing, and using whatever specialized tools (including alternative operating systems) they required to do their jobs.
Define 'trouble'. I worked for several bosses. One of them just said, "Screw it. Install whatever you need to get your job done." The other one ran around with a report that listed 'non-conforming systems' (i.e. not Microsoft) and whined like a little puppy about not making managements goal of 100% conformity (get rid of non-Microsoft systems).

IT's part of that was limited to procurement.
So was ours. And if it wasn't on the 'approved' list, it could take months to get. And they'd inspect every incoming package. More than once, media 'disappeared' and all we'd get was an empty box. Imagine their dismay when they discovered that you didn't have to buy individual licenses for Linux.

Balkanization usually doesn't have anything to do with serving the needs of the users. It's mostly about empire building and job security.

You've got that backwards. Centralization is about job security and empire building. When you have the ability to tell IT to 'F* off, we'll build it ourselves', their empire collapses. And we had that ability for some time when the FAA determined the IT-run systems were so corrupted, they couldn't be relied upon to build airplanes. For a few years, engineering had carte blanche to tell IT to F* off for anything related to aircraft configuration control. That lasted until our company was acquired by another one which had an 'outsource everything' policy.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Re:Typical.... by tsqr · 2014-02-08 13:16 · Score: 1

Is your comment based on an unfortunate personal experience?
[Long reply essentially boiling down to "Yes"]
That sounds really awful. You have my sympathy; really you do. But what you describe isn't a contrast between centralized and balkanized IT. Your story is an example of what happens when dysfunctional IT meets ineffective/ignorant technical management, and management's goal changes from getting the job done efficiently, to looking good against a set of nonsensical standards. My experience shows that it doesn't have to be that way.
Re:Typical.... by PPH · 2014-02-09 04:25 · Score: 1

Ineffective or ignorant managers I can handle. It's when they start working for their own self interests instead of those of the organization, and they aren't stupid, that problems arise.
Balkanized IT arises when the primary providers can't provide adequate service and there are no policies against doing it yourself instead of calling Central Services. The solution is for that central organization to clean up its act. Once done, people will start to opt for their support.
Pressure to standardize everything is usually imposed by outside IT service firms (their consultants), who do not want to inherit heterogeneous environments. Their costs are lower and profits higher if the client organization forces everything into a standard format before outsourcing. And if policies are adopted that prohibit internal groups from opting out of the impending support contract. Even if that standardization harms the client organizations by removing flexibility.
The winners in IT outsourcing are the ex managers of the client IT organization. Often, they get a bonus for the anticipated cost savings. A little gold star for their resume because they 're-engineered' something. An sometimes a financial reward and/or position within the new service provider for bringing in the business.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Re:Typical.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-11 03:54 · Score: 0

This is reminiscent of something that happened while working for Revenue Canada. One the the directors was a women who had absolutley no knowlwdge of IT. Yet she want to replace the UNIX servers with Windows because the licences for Windows cost less. That's it.

We are not an audience by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 01:56 · Score: 1, Insightful

I've got to say that the initial post on this topic perpetuates one of the paradigms that is sticking in the craws of Slashdot users. We are not an audience. We might be users, we might be members, we most certainly are contributors. But we are not an audience.

If you persist in thinking of us that way, then you're going to get it wrong. You serve an audience differently than you serve contributing members of a community. Most of the complaints hinge on that difference.

If we were an audience, we'd be coming here for the articles. Most of the complaints are about the comment system, how difficult it is to follow a conversation, how difficult it is leave a comment, etc. I come here, most of us come here, to read what my/our fellow slashdotters have to say. The value here is the community, and the most important contributors are other members, not the site or the editors.

If you don't get that straight, then you aren't going to "get" why we're upset, so there's no chance that you'll deliver us something that we can live with. And that community is going to vanish, leaving you with nothing of value.

You can take suggestions and maybe reduce the implosion, but unless you understand *why* we're upset, you're going to be heading in fundamentally the wrong direction.

Re:We are not an audience by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:07 · Score: 0

Let's not get too tangled around the word "audience".
Re:We are not an audience by sliceoflife · 2014-02-07 02:31 · Score: 1

Let's not get too tangled around the word "audience".
Every symptom is very important in correctly identifying, and from there, appropriately treating the disease.
Re:We are not an audience by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:41 · Score: 0

DUH... BETA team - HELLO
Exactly! The 'users' are the 'content'.
Miscomprehending that is a typical MBA mistake common to many 'twenty somethings'
Dave_Matthews_sr
"most of us come here, to read what my/our fellow slashdotters have to say. The value here is the community, and the most important contributors are other members, not the site or the editors."
Re:We are not an audience by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:44 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Looks like Timothy is modding all beta posts "0, Offtopic." I wonder how he finds the time, what with all that effort he's putting into listening to our concerns.

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Re:We are not an audience by DickBreath · 2014-02-07 02:51 · Score: 1

Ok. Let's not get too tangled around the word 'audience' as you say. Let's try 'bees' instead.

Bees make honey. You can set up bee boxes and have bees live in the boxes and make honey that you can harvest. But the bees are free to leave at any time. They only reason they stay is because it is attractive to be there. Try making the bee box unusable and the bees will just go build a beehive elsewhere. Don't believe it? They've been building beehives for a lot longer than bee boxes have been around.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Re:We are not an audience by Bite+The+Pillow · 2014-02-07 04:12 · Score: 0

Ther are people who would like to get back to normal. The fuck beta was supposed to last a day. It's obvious some won't let go, so is it that hard to believe no user with mid points would mark off topic posts as such?
I have 12 points left. Tell me why I shouldn't spend them all marking off topic posts, so the people who say they like the discussions can read them?
Re:We are not an audience by frank_adrian314159 · 2014-02-07 08:51 · Score: 1

You can see Detroit as another example. Slashdot beta - the Detroit of web sites.
Fuck beta!

--
That is all.
Re:We are not an audience by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 08:59 · Score: 0

BeOS is building BeBoxes again!
Oh, you're talking about boxes that bees actually live in. I was so hoping for Das Blinken lights to return.

In a parallel universe by arth1 · 2014-02-07 01:56 · Score: 4, Funny

Those problems include 'a failed effort to replace most NASA employees' computers within the first six months and low customer satisfaction,'

Those problems include 'a failed effort to replace all Slashdot contributors' commenting system within the first four months and low customer satisfaction.

No Dice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 01:57 · Score: 1

At least they didn't hire Dice to do their site's redesign.

Sounds like some communication issues by sandytaru · 2014-02-07 01:58 · Score: 4, Funny

NASA: We want you to make our computers awesome.
HP: How awesome?
NASA: The awesomest!
HP: So how awesome is awesomest?
NASA: As awesome as you can make it.
HP: Okay, that'll be two billion dollars.
NASA: Deal! Yay we get awesome new computers, and an an awesome new software system, that will do all sorts of cool things like be our ERP solution and our CAD software and our entire core infrastructure solution...
HP: Yay, we just made a ton of money! So.... what exactly did they want again?

--
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.

Re:Sounds like some communication issues by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:23 · Score: 0

That's a totally awesome process of acquisition.

BETA looks like any other news site by Mark4ST · 2014-02-07 01:59 · Score: 1, Insightful

I can't stand the new Slashdot. I hate being referred to as "Audience" when we are making this site happen. If I wanted CNET, I'd go to CNET.

Re:BETA looks like any other news site by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:24 · Score: 1

Beta looks like a generic, poorly designed Wordpress blog, not a news site. And no, this is not offtopic, it's precisely ontopic! It illustrates that incompetence is everywhere be it HP, NASA, Healthcare.gov or Slashdot. It also illustrates the incompetence of the management for not recognizing the stupidity of their IT contractors/staff. The only difference between NASA and Slashdot is that NASA doesn't rely on the "audience" to keep afloat.
Re:BETA looks like any other news site by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:52 · Score: 1

We're just passive viewers to Dice. "To you, the lucky receivers of Dice's glorious semen, we dedicate this wonderful new beta site. It is our gift to you, the unwashed masses!"

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Re:BETA looks like any other news site by DickBreath · 2014-02-07 02:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

Audience is the wrong analogy. This is like the bee keeper thinking the bees are his Audience.

Bees make honey. You can set up bee boxes and have bees live in the boxes and make honey that you can harvest. But the bees are free to leave at any time. They only reason they stay is because it is attractive to be there. Try making the bee box unusable and the bees will just go build a beehive elsewhere. Don't believe it? They've been building beehives for a lot longer than bee boxes have been around.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Re:BETA looks like any other news site by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:44 · Score: 0

I was being sarcastic, referring to the yesterday's PR stunt. In case you didn't notice it, in their minds this is a news site, even though the news are sometimes a week old, and we are the audience. This is apparently not a platform where we debate and discuss.

significant problems by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 01:59 · Score: 0

No need rocket science like NASA to have significant problems, slashdot did it with (fuck)beta!

I don't understand by itsdapead · 2014-02-07 02:01 · Score: 5, Funny

Sorry - I don't understand the article. Too much text on the page confuses me.

Please could you re-print it with double-line spacing and a large bit of generic stock photography of a rocket or something so I know what it is about?

Maybe a big chunk of white-space at the top so I'm not confronted with a whole paragraph of text on the first screen.

Also, the screen appeared too suddenly and made me jump - which is dangerous because today is my first day wearing my big boy pants. Maybe more javascript effects would slow it down?

Yours,
A.N. Audience

--
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.

Re:I don't understand by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 02:14 · Score: 2

Your complaint is so yesterday morning. Timothy issued a (sort of) mea culpa yesterday.
Re:I don't understand by PGC · 2014-02-07 02:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

That was not a mea culpa. That was a "please shut up".

--
The Dutch will inherit the earth. If not, we'll settle for a bit of ocean. Beta delenda est!
Re:I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:17 · Score: 0

Yeah. Pictures of failed IT projects would help me understand too. And smaller words tool
Re:I don't understand by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 02:18 · Score: 2

Oh, and BTW, I thought your post was very funny.
Re:I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:20 · Score: 0

Beta SUCKS, man.
Re:I don't understand by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 02:22 · Score: 1, Interesting

I somewhat disagree. I thought it had elements of both (a) f you, you're not our only audience and we know better than you and (b) we're sorry the implementation sucks balls and we'll fix it.
I'd say it's a mea culpa regarding the less important stuff, and a big f u regarding the more important stuff.
Re:I don't understand by aliquis · 2014-02-07 02:29 · Score: 1

Hum.
Beta is green now.
Have they changed the look?
Now I'll switch.
Re:I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:45 · Score: 0

DEEPER! DEEPER! Choke on Timotay's cock!

FUCK BETA
Re:I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:48 · Score: 0

The only thing I got out of that was "fuck you, we're not a community, and your comments aren't important."
Dice doesn't want Slashdot to be "news for nerds" any more. They want it to be an IT news aggregation site. It's been moving that way for ages now, it just took the beta for the majority of commentators to realize that classic Slashdot is dead. Going forward, Slashdot is going to be just IT news. I mean, look at this story. What is it? It's just a generic "IT project failed" story. It's not really news for nerds beyond tying NASA and IT together.
If that's the way they want to go, more power to them, I guess, it's just not why I come to Slashdot, and it's time for me to accept that and move on. So, I guess, thanks to beta and thanks to Timothy for making me realize I've been here too long and, as someone more interested in nerd topics than IT, I'm no longer welcome in the New Slashdot. I should have recognized that years ago. Mea culpa, I guess.
Re:I don't understand by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:53 · Score: 2

Sorry - I don't understand the article. Too much text on the page confuses me.

And why are they letting the audience *comment* on it?? Shouldn't an audience just applaud politely?

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Re:I don't understand by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:56 · Score: 2

That wasn't a mea culpa, it was the digital equivalent of a form letter saying "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Re:I don't understand by DickBreath · 2014-02-07 02:56 · Score: 1

That was not a mea culpa. That was an insult that we are their 'audience'. This is like a bee keeper thinking that the bees are his audience.

Bees make honey. You can set up bee boxes and have bees live in the boxes and make honey that you can harvest. But the bees are free to leave at any time. They only reason they stay is because it is attractive to be there. Try making the bee box unusable and the bees will just go build a beehive elsewhere. Don't believe it? They've been building beehives for a lot longer than bee boxes have been around.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Re:I don't understand by Grishnakh · 2014-02-07 03:44 · Score: 2

Yep, Slashdot is on its last legs. If you're interested in true nerd stuff, you need to go to Reddit, and find particular forums (subreddits) there that you're interested in and subscribe to those. This segregation is something that Slashdot never did very well; it tried to have ways of allowing users to filter the news by category, but it never worked very well. On Reddit, everything's in a different forum, so it's segregated naturally. If you want to read Linux-related stuff, simply go to /r/Linux. If you want to read Microsoft-related crap, just go to /r/Microsoft. If you don't want to read MS-related crap and comments from MS fanboys, then don't go to that subreddit. Of course, this doesn't keep shills from invading /r/Linux, but at least you won't see articles about some stupid new MS product you don't care about. And there's lots of even more highly-focused subreddits, like /r/DDWRT if you're interested in DD-WRT, /r/kernel if you're interested in Linux kernel news, /r/linux_devices for that kind of thing, /r/embeddedlinux for linux on embedded devices, etc. I'm sure there's all kinds of other subreddits for other fields if you're interested or a fan of something, whether it's Apple, Mac, iOS, Blackberry, Android, Google, Oracle, whatever.
Re:I don't understand by asylumx · 2014-02-07 05:07 · Score: 2

If you're interested in true nerd stuff, you need to go to Reddit
I haven't made this jump yet, but most of my friends have. I was holding out hoping there was some ray of hope left for Slashdot. Frankly the comments that get modded up anymore are not the smart ones, but the ones who say the hardest-hitting things instead. That combined with the company basically walking away from their primary user base might be the last straw.

Re:I also hate beta by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:03 · Score: 0, Insightful

Dnot 4git 2 h8 BETA 2! b/c BETA sux baw1sax

Imagine by JWW · 2014-02-07 02:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Imagine you're a NASA worker with a nice (albeit old) Macbook computer to do your work on.

Some schmuck walks up to you with a brand new hp laptop with Windows 8 on it to replace your Mac.

I fail to see the scenario where the NASA worker _shouldn't_ enthusiastically shun the "helper" from hp.

When the choice is between something nice and functioning and a crappy os on a crappy piece of hardware, the choice is easy.

The problem with these "one size fits all" contracts is that one size does not fit all situations ever.

If hp wants to make this contract successful they should be forced to offer multiple options through multiple vendors where they take a cut to manage the maintenance and configuration of any of the possible selected systems.

Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

When the choice is between something nice and functioning and a crappy os on a crappy piece of hardware, the choice is easy.
SO TRUE! That's why he's getting the HP!
Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:44 · Score: 0

ACES does provide Apple MacBooks. I have one of them..
Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:50 · Score: 1

I don't have to imagine and you're wrong. My ACES MacBook Pro works just fine.
ACES is not even our first computer equipment provider. It is just our worst and instead of laying the blame entirely on HP where it belongs they are being too diplomatic by spreading the blame around.
Re:Imagine by SecurityGuy · 2014-02-07 05:34 · Score: 1

This is absolutely true, but with one caveat: NASA shouldn't either write an RFP asking for "one size fits all" proposals, or shouldn't award the contract to a vendor who proposes doing that if that's not what they want. From the report, it sounds like that's what happened.
Re:Imagine by jafac · 2014-02-07 05:39 · Score: 2

It's not simple "OS preference" either.
Many NASA workers (and others in scientific or engineering fields) have workflows that require certain software, that may be platform specific, for which, there is no viable alternative. Especially on Linux, there are a lot of highly customized applications for doing the kind of image processing and data collection that doesn't exist on other platforms, and more especially, may have been written by NASA employees in the first place. HP's not going to port that. They're going to try to find the "next best thing" (hey, you can do your data collation in excel, right?). I find it hard to believe that an HP service organization is going to accommodate and integrate a hybrid Mac/Linux/Windows/*BSD environment for these workers, that also complies with the general government IT regulations, (like HSPD-12/FIPS-201, for example). (Some of these top-down requirements for IA are astoundingly ignorant, because while they work in a nice-cushy office building with a homogenous network, you start throwing these other platforms into the mix, dependencies on legacy systems, and distribute that over sites that don't have good network service, you're going to be signing off a crapload of waivers.)

--

These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Re:Imagine by jhol13 · 2014-02-07 06:42 · Score: 1

In my previous job I had quite a nice laptop. Except one thing ... I quite often needed to process multigigabyte files (situation was made worse by an anti-virus). So I asked for an upgrade, an SSD. They proposed to replace the whole machine with a new one, without SSD. I, of course, declined, it would not help at all.
One size does fit all, albeit sometimes very badly. Besides, they do not care, they just provide what is decided (by those who do not understand my problems).

"moving-at-the-speed-of-government"? wtf is this e by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

HP FAILED to live up to their contractual obligations and we're blaming government?

FUCK THIS SITE.

Buck Feta by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:08 · Score: 1

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet. (Copy-paste the html from here so links don't get mangled!)

On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design. Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this in a new tab. After seeing that, click here to return to classic Slashdot.

We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott

Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta
http://slashdot.org/recent - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

-----=====##### LINKS #####=====-----

Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415

Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441

Alternative Slashdot: http://altslashdot.org (thanks Okian Warrior (537106))

Captcha: Overtake

HP's part by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:13 · Score: 1

The report further states that "poor implementation by HP on important aspects of the contract and inconsistent oversight by NASA" have contributed to the failings.

And this looks like NASA allowed HP to run over them.

Although, this being Government and HP being very well connected, I can just imagine a NASA manager trying to hold HP to their obligations only to have HP have one of their bitches in Congress bitch slap the NASA manager down.

Re:HP's part by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:10 · Score: 0

I can't say enough bad things about HP.
They took over our corporate IT and promptly centralized the "helpless desk" to India. What I don't understand is that they demand that you talk to a live Indian Rep instead of opening a ticket on WWW. I find myself saying "I can't ping.....p - i - n - g space ......".
I finally figured out that I could write up a proper issue in an EMail. Call them. Then email the issue once I have the agent on the phone....what a pain.
Further things like a $5000 server acquisition can take 4 months. Talk about redtape.
HP should die a nasty death.
Re:HP's part by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 09:10 · Score: 0

HP took over the NMCI contract from EDS. It's somewhat better than when it was EDS but it still sucks. Looks like HP is recycling NMCI for NASA.

Slashdot crashing ? by advid.net · 2014-02-07 02:14 · Score: 1, Interesting

I see a wonderful spaceship crashing on a planet in slow motion...

This is Slashdot, poisoned by the silly beta that brings buck feta comments in every story

All stories are contaminated, even if there is a main topic for complaining and suggesting improvements or "abandon the beta" advice.

We need to stop this.

Stop redirecting to the beta.
Stop filling stories with buck feta comments.

Re:Slashdot crashing ? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:34 · Score: 0

FUcking fucking fuck BETA....
Re:Slashdot crashing ? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:50 · Score: 0

Fuck your beta in it's stupid ass. Suck on Dice's cock just a little more. Take it all the way to the bawls and tickle Timothy's taint. I know you can do it!
Re:Slashdot crashing ? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:55 · Score: 0

Stop filling stories with buck feta comments
No. How about you stop saying "buck feta". Everyone knows you mean fuck beta, so how does sugar coating it like a little toddler make any difference?
Fuck beta

NMCI 2.0 by strangeintp · 2014-02-07 02:16 · Score: 1

'nuff said

Re:NMCI 2.0 by BigT · 2014-02-07 03:38 · Score: 2

Though that will only mean something to a few of us, that was the comparison I immediately made, too.
I think NMCI (and possibly this NASA system) works just fine if you're a headquarters admin/management type and all you need is email/web apps/power point. If you actually have to produce something and require more than those tools, you're going to have a bad time.

--
Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

NASA's website by Altanar · 2014-02-07 02:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

This from an organization that, when they recently redesigned their website, *still* didn't get around to forwarding http://nasa.gov/ to http://www.nasa.gov? Who would've thought?

Outsourcing sucks by Nimey · 2014-02-07 02:22 · Score: 1

One wonders if the government will start insourcing IT projects again since their outsourced service providers seem to suck.

--
Hail Eris, full of mischief...

E pluribus sanguinem

Re:Outsourcing sucks by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 02:32 · Score: 0

One wonders if the government will start insourcing IT projects again since their outsourced service providers seem to suck.
Not sure that would change anything. There's not much that the federal govt. touches that it can't screw up. My impression after having worked for the govt. for a number of years is that it mostly stems from Congress. And sadly, I don't see Congress acting more wisely anytime soon.
Re:Outsourcing sucks by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2014-02-07 02:32 · Score: 2

I'm pretty sure that the Inherent Superiority of the Private Sector is an axiom, not an empirical conclusion open to reevaluation in light of new data...

(Plus, even outside of the kool aide drinkers, is someone who would feel rewarded if you gave him a job, rather than a big, cushy, contract going to make a worthwhile campaign donor?)
Re:Outsourcing sucks by CastrTroy · 2014-02-07 02:53 · Score: 1

I realize why they outsource, because they believe in the market and think they will get the best deal. However the government needs enough IT work done that they could hire their own army of IT workers. A whole organization who's only mandate is to provide IT services to all the other departments in the government.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Outsourcing sucks by DoofusOfDeath · 2014-02-07 03:03 · Score: 1

I realize why they outsource, because they believe in the market and think they will get the best deal. However the government needs enough IT work done that they could hire their own army of IT workers. A whole organization who's only mandate is to provide IT services to all the other departments in the government.
I don't think it's just that. The federal civil service laws make it very hire to lay people off (because they're no longer needed) or to fire them (because they suck). This means that staffing up for a big project is by incurs a long-term obligation to pay workers, many of whom you no longer want, need, or should be spending budget on.
It's way easier to get rid of contractors.
Re:Outsourcing sucks by Tridus · 2014-02-07 03:20 · Score: 1

Contractors also cost a lot more, doubly so when you factor in that you have to keep paying them well past the end of the contract to fix all the screwups.
The government needs enough people that it isn't going to need to increase or decreasing staffing by large amounts regularly, and if it does it can fill those gaps with contractor developers.
Hiring contracting companies to do things is just a recipe for failure.

--
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Re:Outsourcing sucks by Grishnakh · 2014-02-07 03:49 · Score: 1

Contractors also cost a lot more, doubly so when you factor in that you have to keep paying them well past the end of the contract to fix all the screwups.
Yes, but which costs more, over the long term: hiring contractors with these problems, or hiring regular employees who are nearly impossible to get rid of when they're either no longer needed or don't perform?
Re:Outsourcing sucks by CastrTroy · 2014-02-07 03:57 · Score: 1

The way I see it, If you set up a separate department that deals with IT projects, they you are pretty much guaranteed to need those employees. When one project is over, there's another project to do. Plus with all the projects being done in the same place, there's a much higher chance of code and other aspects being reused. Even looking at hardware there's big savings. If 2 different departments need to order some new machines, they can probably get a better deal from the manufacturer if they both order the same model.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Outsourcing sucks by PPH · 2014-02-07 04:18 · Score: 1

The idea situation is to keep sufficient staff to handle ongoing tasks and hire contractors for occasional increases in workload. There are downside to this as well. Bringing outsiders in to build stuff that they will be able to walk away from at the end of the contract is a recipe for disaster if their work isn't done to the satisfaction of the customer and in-house IT staff (the people that will get stuck with it afterward).
It all comes down to managing the outsourcing contracts properly. And that's probably the biggest problem in any organization. Requiring management to actually get off the golf course to show up and do some work.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Why not use Dice? by RivenAleem · 2014-02-07 02:28 · Score: 1, Funny

They'd have it implemented already whether you wanted it or not.

Re:Beta? We don't need no stinking BETA! by jones_supa · 2014-02-07 02:29 · Score: 2

That's kind of unfair. It does not help to rave here anymore. I'm sure that by now the Slashdot crew is perfectly aware of the disaster which the Beta is according to users. Right now we have to wait a bit and see if they actually start fixing stuff, which Timothy just tried to convince us about. They cannot add the new code overnight.

Adblock Slashdot until DICE kills Beta! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:29 · Score: 0

Adblock Slashdot until DICE kills Beta!

Re:Beta? We don't need no stinking BETA! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:29 · Score: 0

Shut up

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/197857

Don't forget to renew that failed contract. by mr_mischief · 2014-02-07 02:30 · Score: 1

Don't forget to renew that failed contract. If you don't have a contract or warranty active they'll charge you for things as simple as firmware downloads for the hardware they couldn't get delivered and configured on time.

Feedback for Timothy by plasticsquirrel · 2014-02-07 02:30 · Score: 4, Insightful

I was reading this review of Slashdot Beta made last October, which shows a variety of screenshots and also has explanations from Timothy in it.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/33368/slashdot-launches-redesigned-website-in-beta-form-we-check-it-out/index.html

Honestly, I was impressed by at least some of the reasoning, and I can see how some changes would actually be positive. The problem, though, is that not all the changes are good, and it's far too much at once. There is a potential to lose what is special about Slashdot including its moderation system. They need to examine Beta and see and what needs to change for it to be accepted by the Slashdot community. Off the top of my head:

Less whitespace, fewer pictures: Slashdot is all about the text and what the community writes here. It needs to be clear and easy to see a lot of information at one time. How many times do we have to say this? Just change the fucking CSS already.
The moderation system needs to either stay the same or change only slightly. Major changes are going to disrupt the community and the flow of the discussion. Nobody wants Slashdot reduced to +1 and -1 like this is Facebook and we're all retards posting pictures of hamburgers and ugly babies.
It would be nice if someone from Dice had the balls or the ovaries enough to make a formal apology to the community about how this has been handled. This isn't all Timothy's problem, and he shouldn't have to take all the heat. The future direction of Slashdot is the responsibility of Dice and Alice, so they should be responding and taking responsibility.
Stop forcing everyone to switch over and stop forcing redirection until the actual site is finished. To do otherwise is confusing and disrespectful. Wait until you have a finished product.
Do a better job explaining everything to the community and respecting the community. Hell, we would be doing a lot of this work for you and making recommendations for you, but Beta was forced on everyone without proper feedback (not to mention the fact that Beta is still unusable and broken).

Here's a real and serious recommendation for Timothy if he wants Beta to eventually succeed without disrupting the Slashdot community: do redirections one day out of the week, and on that one day, have a story posted by Timothy asking the community for feedback -- one day each week for experimentation ("Slashdot Labs Day"). Then for the next 6 days, they can fix the site, while readers continue to use the classic interface. Keep doing that until the big problems in Beta are ironed out and the community is halfway satisfied with it. That is seriously a simple and reliable way that they could fix this and make people happy again. You can take that one to the bank. Unfortunately I don't know if they have the sense to do so because they haven't accepted feedback very well and they haven't kept in contact with the community.

--
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems

Too much brainpower expended by nani+popoki · 2014-02-07 02:38 · Score: 1

on coming up with an acronym and not enough on proper planning and execution. This seems to be an endemic problem with our government. Beaurocracy at its best!

THANKS OBUMMER... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 02:39 · Score: 0

"If you like Slashdot classic you can keep Slashdot classic. Period."

Re:Just curious... by TWiTfan · 2014-02-07 02:50 · Score: 1, Offtopic

The funny thing is that for all this talk about "We're going to make changes based on your input" horseshit, I would almost be willing to bet that they hired a contractor to do the redesign and that he's already fulfilled his contract and left. I bet that they don't even have the capacity to change the design significantly at this point without hiring a new contractor to do it.

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."

hey, look over here! by argStyopa · 2014-02-07 02:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

In a sense, this is "look how incompetent the government is at implementing tech" story, but in another this could be interpreted as an attempt to trivialize what happened with healthcare.gov. "Oh gosh, nothing ever goes right for the government so what happened with healthcare.gov is par for the course (shrug)."

Except the healthcare.gov disaster was LEGISLATIVE, the constant, ongoing, still-unresolved tech catastrophe was only the impact-crater.

The fact that NASA's computer-replacement program was a boondoggle was meaningless, compared to the tech-failure of a program whose use was MANDATED by law.

--
-Styopa

I mean... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:11 · Score: 0

...it's like some kind of beta or something.

And Slashdot Beta by kbahey · 2014-02-07 03:15 · Score: 1

And Slashdot Beta is a disaster of a project too ...

Was it done by the same contractors for Healthcare.gov? No, it was mandated by clueless Dice executives ...

Anyone who sees this kind of backlash should immediately back off, not just say : "We are staying the course ..." GWB style ...

--
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.

Re:And Slashdot Beta by Joepie69 · 2014-02-07 04:07 · Score: 2

Maybe Dice can hire HP Enterprise to update/cleanup/rewrite the Beta ? Guarantueed we can enjoy the classic another 5 years or so ... Yes... the beta sucks

There is no RC, because I hate dice... and /. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:29 · Score: 0

Alpha will be a step in the right direction.

Adding new code is the problem by j-stroy · 2014-02-07 03:32 · Score: 1, Insightful

A change of course can be made overnight. There has been no commitment to maintain what the community that creates this site on a daily basis requires.

If you think fixing the unspeakable new site with new code is an option, you probably don't understand the fundamental problems with it, aside from the look and feel. It ain't Slashdot. That's the problem.

You are an audience by Dcnjoe60 · 2014-02-07 03:44 · Score: 1

That drivel "we are not an audience" keeps getting repeated. Yes, you are an audience.

If you get your news from CBS or the BBC, are you a community or a user or member? Hardly, you are an audience, plain and simple.

Then how come, if you get news from slashdot, you are not an audience?

Re:You are an audience by glavenoid · 2014-02-07 04:00 · Score: 2

I think you may be one of the few people getting "news" from slashdot. The rest of us come here *specifically* for the commentary, and yes, that makes us NOT an audience but a community. The "news" submissions are nothing more than a vehicle for things to discuss and that's how it has always been.
To be honest I'm surprised someone with a 6-digit UID such as yourself wouldn't have realized this by now.

--
I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.

Re:Beta? We don't need no stinking BETA! by Grishnakh · 2014-02-07 03:47 · Score: 2

Right now we have to wait a bit and see if they actually start fixing stuff, which Timothy just tried to convince us about. They cannot add the new code overnight.

They don't need to add any new code, they just need to delete all the Beta code.

Re:Beta? We don't need no stinking BETA! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 03:54 · Score: 1

It's not about making the Slashdot crew aware of the disaster that Beta is - it's about making them aware that IT IS THE USERS OF THIS SITE THAT CREATE THE FUCKING CONTENT!

Beta sucks by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:18 · Score: 1

Wtf is this? Worst mobile design EVER!

Well by The+Cat · 2014-02-07 04:20 · Score: 0

That's what happens when you fire all the good people.

should of known better by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 04:37 · Score: 0

HP already has an absolutely TERRIBLE reputation from managing the navy and marine corps networks. they are TERRIBLE.

It's Big Government. by Chas · 2014-02-07 05:01 · Score: 1

Basically ANY time you bring a government into the mix, you get massive cost multiplications, shitty design, worse implementation, and just all-around craptastic workmanship. Meanwhile, everyone sits there, pointing fingers at everyone else.

And don't even get me started on graft and corruption.

Seriously, look at fucking social security in this country. The coffers for SS have been robbed from so much that there just isn't money enough to continue supporting the program. But it's a massive cash influx for Uncle Sam. So they're not going to get rid of it. They'll keep milking it until it collapses under its own weight.

And that's basically what's going to happen with OhBlahBlahCare as well.

--

Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!

Worked the contract before HP got it by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 05:36 · Score: 0

Not sure who chose to higher IT. Because thats where the blame should be. Before HP had the contract, it was Dell and Lockheed Martin/EMCO handled hiring. Once they lost the contract, it switched to HP and they hiring went to company Metters, i believe, and they started hiring no experience IT at near min. wage. That is more likely the cause from my experience out at NASA.

Offtopic, but an answer to that :) by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 05:39 · Score: 1

Hi there -- this is Tim ("timothy" - posting anon because in a new browser, and because the site should work for anon. readers!), and I'd like to suggest you ask questions / make suggestions in the story posted yesterday *about* the beta instead. However, I know it's frustrating.

That said, you're right. Direct linking to comments is something that should arrive soon -- maybe not soon enough, I realize, but it's something that got pushed down the stack for too long. Yes, comments must be directly linkable, and they will be. This kind of tire-kicking (with readers actively poking) is what reveals the things that have been neglected in the design.

*This* discussion isn't the right place for a beta features discussion, though (so I'm intentionally not going to extend this thread beyond this current comment); this one is: http://meta-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/02/06/2329227/slashdot-tries-something-new-audience-responds :)

(And of course, email to feedback@slashdot.org, or comment on the blog posts at http://slashdot.org/~slashdotblog/journal -- low traffic, but we read them all.)

timothy

There's another side to that argument by shugah · 2014-02-07 06:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

I work as a consultant in both the public and private sector, so my perspective on this is a bit different. I've worked for the big firms, but now work through a network of other boutique consulting firms to deliver larger projects. Each of your points has a counter argument and counter evidence. I will say that I don't think anyone gets their money's worth from the big firms. Their rates are too high and while they may have access to the right expertise, after the first week of the engagement the specialists are all gone and the client left with the B team. I've been approached many times to subcontract under one of the big firms and I've so far turned them down because they are so arrogant. They usually don't want to actually use my specific industry expertise, they just want my CV to bolster their bid. They trust their endless pool of resources and standardized methodologies to make up for their lack of expertise.

I'd also like to point out that the failure rate of IT projects in general is very high (close to 70%) with little to no difference between in house and out sourced projects. I would add that a sizable portion of my work is refocusing (or replacing / undoing) projects that were started in house and went off the rails. I also know the flip side is also true - failing external projects are brought in house just as often.

There are several good (and some bad) reasons to bring in consultants.;

When you don't have the skills in house, or when your in house skills are fully utilized on other projects it makes sense to hire contractors. Contrary to popular belief, most IT staff do not spend most of their day playing Minecraft or streaming episodes of The Big Bang Theory at work. Most IT staff I'm familiar with work 50 - 60 hours per week and have weeks of backloged operations support and in house projects. Expecting them to add yet another major project off the side of their desk is a strategy for failure. Contractors (can) bring focus. I usually only work on 1 or at most 2 major project at a time.

Hiring staff for projects is not easy and not always the best idea. When you hire someone you invest in recruiting, training, benefits, pension, etc. because you expect that person to be with you, and productive for at least 3 - 5 years. If you hire people just for a project, at the end of the project you can end up with staff who are either under utilized or under motivated because their skills and/or ambitions are no longer what you need. Alternatively, you could end up creating projects with shaky business cases just because you have some in house resources. As a consultant, while I love to be re-engaged for subsequent work, I have no expectation of such. My best marketing is to get the job done. I usually include a post implementation review 2 - 3 months after the project. For me, this is a sales opportunity, but it is also an opportunity for the client to evaluate and learn from the implementation. This is something that doesn't always happen with in house projects.

When people say contractors get paid more than in house staff they are not seeing the whole picture. The things I mentioned above - recruiting costs, training costs, benefits, pensions, health insurance, vacations, paid breaks, statutory holidays, office space, admin support and HR support are all costs for internal staff that are either paid by or not applicable to contractors. Additionally, I carry errors and omissions and liability insurance - where the client company is entirely on the hook for the errors, omissions and liability risk of its employees. Finally, contractors can only bill hours actually worked on the project (or in some cases, a fixed price) where staff are paid regardless of utilization. When you factor all of those things in, experienced staff with equivalent expertise are often paid/cost more than contractors.

The biggest problem with outsourced projects is often in procurement. I haven't seen very many good procurement departments. They are often eith

--
If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem

Aw, c'mon guys... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 06:51 · Score: 0

It's hardly rocket science.

Old news by plopez · 2014-02-07 06:57 · Score: 1

This has been happening sice at least the 1980's. The distressing part is that there seems to be no learning. The same mistakes are made over and over again.

--
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+

Milton Friedman's Four Ways to Spend Money by TheDan666 · 2014-02-07 07:18 · Score: 2

"There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can spend somebody else’s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else’s money on myself, then I’m sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government. And that’s close to 40% of our national income."

ACES hardware support is OK. Now, software... by alispguru · 2014-02-07 08:31 · Score: 1

I am typing this on an ACES 15" MacBook Pro. We're supposed to get refreshed every three years; I got refreshed at the change to ACES, which was less than three years, but they gave me a year-old MacBook model, which was a little chintzy. They did give us decent docking stations, though, and they do replace and restore when stuff breaks within a reasonable amount of time.

My beef with ACES is their support of NASA-required software. This machine is running 10.8.3, because ACES has not blessed for 10.9 the required third-party software for whole-disk encryption, remote patch support, remote backup, and remote access.

My previous machine ran 10.6 well into the 10.8 era due to ACES' inability to support this steaming load, and I would put the odds of them certifying a load for 10.9 before 10.10 ships to be below 50%.

--

To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.

I wonder how much this beta cost... by frank_adrian314159 · 2014-02-07 08:44 · Score: 1

But I see Dice is convinced that piling on to sunk costs for a broken project is a great strategy for success. Tells you all you need to know about the company. Web gazillion.0 idiots at their best! Arrogance and idiocy all rolled into a big steamer delivered fresh to your browser every day!

Fuck beta!

--
That is all.

"Reply to comment"?!? What? Don't you mean "Subj by tqk · 2014-02-07 10:21 · Score: 1

The only difference between NASA and Slashdot is that NASA doesn't rely on the "audience" to keep afloat.

I can see soooooo(!) many things wrong with that statement, ...

NASA's "audience" is US taxpayers and Congress, just to start.

OT: Why does beta think I use noscript when I don't? I'll admit to ABP, however. I suggest /. get some neophytes who've never been to /. to try its commenting system, to see if they can figure out how to use it. I'll bet they (the neophytes) can't. Where's editing help and the Subject line box?

--
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.

Re:"Reply to comment"?!? What? Don't you mean "Sub by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-07 12:57 · Score: 0

There's nothing wrong with that statement. US taxpayers do not decide a thing, you are just the spectators. Can you say: No, I don't want my taxes to go to NASA? Or are you suggesting you can stop paying taxes? Good luck with that... But Slashdot "audience" CAN stop contributing! Without the contributors this site dies. Period.

No dice by lucm · 2014-02-07 13:44 · Score: 1

It could not have been Timothy, he was with your mom at the time of the down-modding.

--
lucm, indeed.

It didn't used to be that way. by GaryHayman · 2014-02-07 17:48 · Score: 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Lumpy how'd "eating your words" taste? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-18 23:10 · Score: 0

ROTFLMAO @ "Chumpy" -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

(You sure "talk a good game" -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm... but you can't even produce a MERE SCRIPT!, windbag...)

You aren't even on the level of a "script kiddie", & full of HOT AIR!

You certainly won't reply there in that 2nd link I posted either, as that would remove your downmods to my posts like this one you can't validly disprove or justify your downmod on -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm...

Oh, I suspect that IS the case here (simply logging out of a registered account & trolling by ac is a common troll trick around here OR using alternate registered 'luser' accounts sockpuppets to do the job will also, & Lumpy is LOADED with those & trolling - which doesn't matter: He PROVES he's all talk, no action (or skills, OR brains, lol))

(You're all TALK, & NO action "CHUMPY!)

* :)

(You know it, I know it, & so does anyone reading AND laughing their asses off @ you now... lol!)

APK

P.S.=> Answer the question in the subject-line Lumpy - since you had to "eat your wrods" in the 1st link above flavored with your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH + the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat", lol...

... apk

Slashdot Mirror

Not Just Healthcare.gov: NASA Has 'Significant Problems' With $2.5B IT Contract

176 comments