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Android Beats iOS As the Top Tablet OS

sfcrazy writes "Linux is on a roll. After conquering the smartphone space, Android is now dominating the tablet space. According to a new study by Gartner, 'the tablet growth in 2013 was fueled by the low-end smaller screen tablet market, and first time buyers; this led Android to become the No. 1 tablet operating system (OS), with 62 percent of the market.'" Also, everyone is buying tablets.(~200 million sold in 2013 vs ~115 million in 2012). Microsoft still only has 2% of the tablet market.

487 comments

  1. The year of the Linux Tablet by Niterios · · Score: 5, Funny

    It is finally here! Now we just need it to be an open platform.

    1. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sailfish OS based on Meego will soon be installable on Android tablets and phones. Bingo.

    2. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 0, Troll

      Shitty 100 USD Android tablets that have crap spyware apps, completely unsuitable for any of the cool stuff you can do for music production or video on the premiere tablet platform?

      No thank you.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    3. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "premiere tablet platform"?

      Biased much?

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
    4. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh?

    5. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by koan · · Score: 1

      But their URL looks like "selfish ho's", might be cool, looks cooler than the Ubuntu variant.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    6. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Stormwatch · · Score: 1, Funny

      What kind of moron would do music production or video on a tablet?

    7. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by koan · · Score: 1

      It's a start, and Apple is on the downhill slide.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    8. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Bias" is the name of one of my indispensable music performance and recording applications. :-)

      From Positive Grid.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    9. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sailfish OS based on Meego will soon be installable on Android tablets and phones. Bingo.

      Sailfish's UI is proprietary. AOSP is open.

      Niterios is trolling, attempting to cultivate the belief that Android is not a genuinely open-source OS.

      Ask yourself which companies stand to benefit from this belief. Follow the money trail.

    10. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Selfish Ho's could be cool or they could be too narcissistic even while looking cool.

    11. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by vux984 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, from way back this morning there is this guy:

      http://features.slashdot.org/s...

      -----IPADS. So many possibilities, sooooo cheap.

      I would encourage a new composer on a budget to start with an iPad, and challenge them to fill it up with software using the $5,000-$50,000 they just saved. Go nuts--you'll never exhaust the budget!! I've created sounds that have suited my clients needs very well, using the following iPad apps...

      One of the most insightful and interesting ask slashdots I've read.

      Or right, he said -composer-, not -producer-. So your both right... ipads aren't adequate for production... but apparently quite good for composition.

    12. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is Niterios is a plant perhaps?

    13. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      That was my thought, exactly. Tablets may be great for on-the-go stuff, but serious computer work? Maybe that post was written from the year 2114, when technology permits you to slip an entire desktop system complete with keyboard and full sized monitor, into a pocket the size of today's tablets. Some kind of molecular compression gadget thingy that will squeeze the stuff all down to a little bitty carry pouch.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    14. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has Android got low latency audio support yet?

    15. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Android dominates iOS the same way McDonalds dominates the local diner, and Budweiser dominates domestic beer. UNITS SOLD.

      Which says lots about price point and convenience, but nothing about quality.

    16. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Just curious.
      Which are the important metrics you are using to come to the conclusion Apple is on a downward slide?

    17. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trolls of course! You're a 6 digit UID so I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but for our younger readers Jeremiah Cornelius has to be the lowest oldest troll on /. that still posts with his original account. I don't know how he's managed to even keep enough karma to post more than once a year under that account. I'm gonna blame karma whoring alt accounts in a giant circle jerk of insightful mods.

    18. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      What kind of moron would do music production or video on a tablet?

      A moron who does not want to lug a laptop around, and knows that a tablet is actualy a computer as opposed to a mere media consumption device?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    19. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by tysonedwards · · Score: 4, Informative

      From the same article, I wouldn't really call Apple on the downward slide. They have been selling more tablets than ever, and more than Samsung, Asus, Amazon and Lenovo combined. In fact, all 5 have been growing tremendously Year-over-Year. The difference here is that there has been a significant increase in the "Others" category, all of the other manufacturers who on their own would be considered a rounding error in the report. This is more the case of the Bargain Bin models increasing the size of the market larger than the "Big Boys" care to play in. Example: Samsung isn't rushing out to release a $49 tablet to compete with RCA.

      --
      Thirty four characters live here.
    20. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Android is open source? Cool where can I get the source to the latest development version?

    21. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      It's just the bizarre world of numbers. Tablets are in theory cheap enough that every member of the family can have one, compared to one PC (which I can't believe anyone is seriously giving up). Then you have the work PC for every working adult in the family, which is not 1:1 for all teh world: lots of people don't use computers at work ever.

    22. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AOSP

    23. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Niterios is trolling, attempting to cultivate the belief that Android is not a genuinely open-source OS.

      Android is not a genuinely open-source OS, AOSP arguably is (though the development process is closed, not open) but you can't just run AOSP. You need a bunch of proprietary binary blobs to support it and pretty much all phones shipping with Android include a whole lot more proprietary binary blobs than that.

      Ask yourself which companies stand to benefit from this belief. Follow the money trail.

      Which companies would that be? Certainly Apple and Microsoft have nothing to gain from that since pretty much nobody gives a toss about whether they can get teh source code for their operating system or not, so is there some other entity you are referring to?

    24. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      from AOSP:

      Google works internally on the next version of the Android platform and framework according to the product's needs and goals. We develop the next version of Android by working with a device partner on a flagship device whose specifications are chosen to push Android in the direction we believe it should go.

      that's not my idea of open source, bro.

    25. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      At least he has the balls to log in, Mr or Ms Coward.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    26. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by ottothecow · · Score: 2
      The audio latency issues on android are kind of a shame.

      The one reason I almost bought an ipad instead of an android tablet was basically so I could use the ReBirth app (and maybe other music apps in the future). Figured it wasn't worth double the money for a single app when I got a deal on a 2013 Nexus 7...but I wish I could run it.

      There are some alternatives but the audio latency just kills it. You can write stuff and then hit play, but you can't adjust it on the fly without lag. If you are writing it in advance, might as well use a computer since you aren't taking advantage of a big multitouch control surface to have live control of multiple effects.

      --
      Bottles.
    27. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 0

      Well, my new tablet is a full computer, not a mere media consumption device. But that's because it has an Intel processor and runs a full version of Windows 8.1 on it. It has the 'Microsoft App Store' but it can also run any x86 windows software you choose that will run on Windows 8.

      Also, it is significantly cheaper than an Apple Tablet that can only run 'apps' and it's made by Dell, not some Asian brand.

      The fact that Microsoft is bundling full Office 2013 H&S on it for a total cost of $299 tells you they are either desperate for sales, or they're planning on penetrating the Tablet market bigtime.

    28. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Well, that depends on where you get your numbers. I can build an almost top end desktop for less than the price of a top end tablet, I believe. The power of desktops are still increasing, and the price is still coming down, although not as rapidly as they did in years past.

      The wife bought a bargain basement tablet, against the advice of our son who really knows what's what in the tablet world. An underpowered little thing, with no real storage - she was just looking at the price, with little understanding of the features, or lack thereof. I still don't have a tablet, or a smart phone. I can't justify a device like the wife's, nor can I justify spending the money to get the top end devices. My desktop satisfies all my requirements. And, I have storage out the ying-yang! Hell, my "dumb phone" has more storage than her poor little tablet.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    29. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've got several of those $50, 5" Android tablets. They are perfectly suited for use as SONOS/Z Wave controllers around the home. Fast and responsive when doing that. Why buy a $300+ tablet for such a mundane task? I'd rather have 6 of these lower-end controllers rather than one - and I can leave them around in all the rooms of the house. Choice is wonderful!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    30. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but which ones? And will it have drivers so that everything works correctly?

    31. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by smash · · Score: 2

      RDP + SSH = tablet usable for 99% of my job.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    32. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Isn't that a bit like saying that my OS is no longer Linux because I'm using the Nvidia driver for my GTX 660 (which nouveau claims to support but does not do so by any practical metric such as uptimes greater than, say, 2 minutes)?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    33. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Shitty 100 USD Android tablets that have crap spyware apps

      And that can be easily rooted and have a clean copy of Android, along with the ability to drill down and manage the individual apps to remove their access with privacy in mind.

      the cool stuff you can do for music production or video on the premiere tablet platform

      There are now low-latency audio solutions for Android, and a very long list of high-quality production apps available.

      Even the very best hardware and software for making music on tablets are little more than novelties. And the best hardware for music production on iOS doesn't even work on the latest rev of the iPad. Take a look at the Mackie mixers or Apogee dongles. Some of them still want you to have a "Apple Camera Adapter" in order to use them. Even the $99 Launchpad from Ableton is a flimsy toy. A full-blown Launchpad or Ableton's new Push won't talk to your "premiere tablet platform".

      On the other hand, my "$100 Android tablet" has a real USB port. Let's see you plug a iPad into an MPC Studio.

      I won't even mention that my Surface Pro can actually run Pro Tools and run VSTi virtual instruments and plugins. If you want to do real music production with a tablet, you're better off with a Windows tablet (oh no he didn't!).

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    34. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Jeremiah Cornelius has to be the lowest oldest troll on /. that still posts with his original account.

      *taps AC on shoulder*

      Excuse me, you were saying...?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    35. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      desperate for sales, and they're planning on penetrating the Tablet market bigtime.

      TFTFY.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    36. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      The real indicator is that my wife is finally starting to tire of being constrained by her iDevices and to make noises about getting Android goodies like mine that you can actually do stuff with, without writing to Tim for permission first.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    37. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a classy way to express your Apple fanboi butthurt. My compliments.

    38. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that a bit like saying that my OS is no longer Linux because I'm using the Nvidia driver for my GTX 660 (which nouveau claims to support but does not do so by any practical metric such as uptimes greater than, say, 2 minutes)?

      No, quite clearly it is nothing like that at all. You are still running Linux regardless of what graphics driver you are using.

    39. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      desperate for sales, and they're hoping to penetrate the Tablet market bigtime.

      TFTFY.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    40. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word "consume" implies that whatever is consumed is used up in the process. Don't use this term in relation to audio/video. It makes you appear ignorant.

    41. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      Makes sense. It even uses a thermionic valve as a symbol. If that isn't a symbol of snotty audiophilia I don't know what is.

    42. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Losing market share. You know. The title of this article.

    43. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 0

      been selling more tablets than ever

      Yeah. Like that is a good indicator. Their market share is going down and their profits per device will too. Just like what happened with the iPod. You think people are dumb?

      more than Samsung, Asus, Amazon and Lenovo combined

      I still remember when the Apple apologists said the same about cellphones. It took Samsung what? One year? Two? To sell more smartphones than Apple.

      I'll give it a year. If the market doesn't implode that is. I doubt a tablet and guess what. I don't use it that often. I either use my PC at home, or the laptop when travelling, or the smartphone when I can't be bothered carrying my laptop around. It is niche hardware.

    44. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see. Death of figurehead, lack of any real innovation, and stooping to lawsuits as a means of squashing competition that they fear.

    45. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Since the binary blobs being complained about are just hardware drivers, it apparently is just like that.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    46. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Touché, mon ami. :)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    47. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shitty 100 USD Android tablets that have crap spyware apps, completely unsuitable for any of the cool stuff you can do for music production or video on the premiere tablet platform?

      No thank you.

      Premiere tablet platform? You mean Windows? They really were the first ones to mass market even though they were not particularly good then but I suppose being able to do full music production and video editing on the surface pro is pretty good, better than any other tablet anyway.

    48. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      The real indicator is that my wife is finally starting to tire of being constrained by her iDevices and to make noises about getting Android goodies like mine that you can actually do stuff with

      such as? what cool things are you doing on your android that make your wife jealous? do tell.

    49. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      \ And the best hardware for music production on iOS doesn't even work on the latest rev of the iPad. Take a look at the Mackie mixers or Apogee dongles. Some of them still want you to have a "Apple Camera Adapter" in order to use them. Even the $99 Launchpad from Ableton is a flimsy toy. A full-blown Launchpad or Ableton's new Push won't talk to your "premiere tablet platform".

      links? what toys don't work with the iPad air?

    50. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Open Source != Open Development

    51. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by symbolset · · Score: 1

      That doesn't seem to be happening with iPhone, which is considerably further down this curve. Instead it is quite efficiently skimming the cream off the top.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    52. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by symbolset · · Score: 1

      I've got one that I use exclusively as a Chromecast remote. It was only $40, so why not?

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    53. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or they're planning on penetrating Tablet users who're dumb enough to fall for Microsoft's shenannigans bigtime.

      FTFY

    54. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      like using a nice browser.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    55. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by DJRumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They do this every time. Gartner left out almost 4 million Apple sales. Those were actual sales, rather than 'shipped'. This happens every time, and we always find out later that Shipped from folks like Samsung != Sales from Apple.

      Apple reports Sales. The others do not.

      http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/03/03/gartner-ignores-apples-sales-numbers-reports-android-marketshare-doubled-ipad-in-2013

    56. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by kthreadd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too bad almost no one uses AOSP, but relies on the Google Play services which are non-free. Almost like saying that OS X is open because Darwin is.

    57. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My quite cheap (less than ipad cost) desktop PC works fine for it.
      Are you really doing music & video production on a tablet?
      If you really are then you might want to look at andriod tablets that cost more than 100USD
      Hell my netbook has as much power as an ipad.

      Have I just been trolled? If so 7/10 - I'm an easy mark :)

    58. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might have something to do with Apple being a retailer & Samsung not.

      Please alter the crappy AC limits on slashdot, using tor is a pain

    59. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or they're planning on penetrating Tablet users who're dumb enough to fall for Microsoft's shenannigans bigtime.

      FTFY

      Well it'd be an improvement on Apple's shenannigans at least.

    60. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well market share HAS gone down and they've introduced a cheaper variant so GPs point seems factual.

      As to Apple still 'skimming the cream' it does seem true that 'A fool and his money are soon parted'.

    61. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So much butthurt. Poor Jeremiah.

    62. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by koan · · Score: 1

      Oh and another thing, who in the hell uses a tablet for anything professional in terms of music or video production? Oh I know you will find one or 2 examples of "professional" work as proof of concept, but the truth is a touch surface is to unreliable to do music live, and to constrained to be useful for high end video.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    63. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by koan · · Score: 1

      How about Google now? SIRI is just crap compared to Google's voice control.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    64. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by koan · · Score: 1

      Fuck Amanda Knox.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    65. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      The downmod of my previous comment indicates some fearful zealots.

      Why not leave the comment up as is? Talking about third party contenders is on-topic.

    66. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      While few people run raw AOSP a lot of people run Cyanogen, which is a popular AOSP distro.

      AOSP also allows other operating systems to have full application API level compatibility, meaning they can run Android apps, with minimal hassle or compatibility issues.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    67. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't, she wont come to Europe...

    68. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      A lot of the lower end tablets are actually perfectly fine, usable devices for most users. They browser the web and run Angry birds, and often have an SD card slot for cheap movie storage. If you just want something basic to browse Facebook or entertain the kids they are fine.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    69. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      While few people run raw AOSP a lot of people run Cyanogen, which is a popular AOSP distro.

      That is true.

      AOSP also allows other operating systems to have full application API level compatibility, meaning they can run Android apps, with minimal hassle or compatibility issues.

      Unless your app requires Google Play Services of course.

    70. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      why? you have something against innocent girls accused of murder? or maybe you're pro-witchhunt?

    71. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Market share is only meaningful if 1. your product cannot be viable, begins to fade, and sales dwindle or if 2. support of your product become inadequate in the marketplace. Neither of these things is in fact happening yet with Apple. At some point as is the case with all companies, Apple will fade to glee of many, but this is not what is happening currently.

      Such a failure of a company could be reflected in market share when it is paired with other factors, but Apple is not yet dwindling in the actual marketplace. Other more pertinent measures would be unit sales and profitability. Apple continues and upward trend in year-over-year profitability. Apples as of last quarter posted record sales numbers for its devices and record profits. Apple has so much in cash reserves that they Wall Street complains about that as well. And Apple seems to be expanding into new market areas where their technology and cash will make them a big player. Overall Apple seems to be suffering from being the most profitable company in monetary terms in the history of our planet and at least for now not dwindling.

      Market share, at least in this case, is a bit of a deceptive red-herring. Marketshare is the one hit wonder answer that gets trotted out to demonstrate how Apple is failing each month and yet market share is changing because of the flood of cheap devices which compete for the lower end of the market. By merely saying market share proves Apple is on a downward slide people willfully remain ignorant of all the other factors which would indicate exactly the opposite is true. at least up until this last quarter.

    72. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by carou · · Score: 1

      I'll give it a year. If the market doesn't implode that is. I doubt a tablet and guess what. I don't use it that often. I either use my PC at home, or the laptop when travelling, or the smartphone when I can't be bothered carrying my laptop around. It is niche hardware.

      You don't use your Android tablet that often, and this spells doom for the iPad?

      Admittedly I'm only guessing you bought Android, but you don't sound like an mass-market Apple user. You think the iPad is niche? I'll tell you what's niche: owning four different computing devices, when just one will do 90% of the things that 90% of people want to do.

    73. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      links? what toys don't work with the iPad air?

      The very first one I randomly chose:

      http://www.musiciansfriend.com...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    74. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      If by innocent you mean twice-convicted, then sure. Unless you have some evidence that you've been withholding from the Italian courts...

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    75. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      While Android is off the Linux Kernel, it isn't GNU/Linux.
      It is like saying iOS is actually BSD Unix, and the BSD Unix has a huge market share too.

      The use of the Kernel is only part of the OS, and in many ways while it is the core of the OS, it isn't necessarily a major component to it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    76. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Every lug a laptop on stage, and fiddle with it, on top of an amplifier cabinet or KB rack?

      An iPad clipped to your mike stand is full of WIN.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    77. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Audio sucks dog poop. Cannot run multi-stage signal processing loop without dropout or stuttering latencies. Oh. Try and locate/change "Default Audio Device" in the crippleware Microsoft Tablet UI. Or in the traditional "Control Panel". I spent more than 10 minutes trying to accomplish this once-simple actin on a Win8 tablet, last week - with the assistance of an MS employed consultant, no less!

      Also this "tablet" uses 60 percent of advertised storage capacity for just OS binaries!

      Microsoft: The little, flat box, full of fail.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    78. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by jo_ham · · Score: 0

      The iPod sales went down because Apple replaced it with the iPhone - they still have the iPod Touch, but the bulk of consumers who want the functionality of the iPod get it because it's included in the iPhone. Using the drop in iPod sales as some sort of indicator for what will happen to the iPad in the future is laughable.

      If Apple were to replace it with something else then perhaps, but as it stands at the moment, the tablet is a relatively unchanging target (it has survived the "netbooks will kill tablets" rhetoric, for example) and seem to happily coexist with ultrabooks.

    79. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Now THAT's a good use!

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    80. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This feels a lot less "cool" when you realize it's thanks for the locked down Kindle Fire sales and has very little to do the tablets people want you to think it does.

      Real sales:
      iOS: Still kicking butt
      Kindle: Gaining serious buttkicking ground
      Other Android tablets (including Google's): still crappy in terms of sales

    81. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      It's a valve-amp simulator/modeller. It'll blow your mind. Swap valves, add values, go crazy and build the amp of your dreams.

      I built an Ampeg Flip-Top ++ that turns my bass into WALL OF MOTOWN live, when going direct to PA.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    82. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Oh and another thing, who in the hell uses a tablet for anything professional in terms of music or video production? Oh I know you will find one or 2 examples of "professional" work as proof of concept, but the truth is a touch surface is to unreliable to do music live, and to constrained to be useful for high end video.

      From the same day:
      http://features.slashdot.org/story/14/03/02/2041246/the-fat-man-george-sanger-answers-your-questions-about-music-and-games

      -----IPADS. So many possibilities, sooooo cheap.

      I would encourage a new composer on a budget to start with an iPad, and challenge them to fill it up with software using the $5,000-$50,000 they just saved. Go nuts--you'll never exhaust the budget!! I've created sounds that have suited my clients needs very well, using the following iPad apps:

      --Cubasis: a pro workstation on you iPad. Are you KIDDING?!?! Amazing.

      --Cubase IC Pro: Use the iPad as a control surface for the big, expensive Cubase/Nuendo.

      --MorphWiz: No bad tones with this synth by Jordan Rudess. Beautiful interface.

      --Korg iMS-20: Analog synth emulator de LUXE. I've gotten 45,000 hits on my YouTube tutorial for it, too!

      --iKaoscillator: Can't make a wrong note here. Just touch the screen, get a groove. Korg has such great tones, always.

      --Animoog: Yeah, I could have used the _real_ Moog, but this one is different. Tricky interface, LUSH, motion-filled sounds.

      --Symphony Pro: Notation software. Beautiful.

      I also like to jam with:

      --OnSong: Keeps track of my hundreds of jam charts. Thorough, useful software, worth every penny and more. I project the jam charts from the iPad to a big screen, so's everybody can read 'em and see the chords. Invaluable.

      --Mugician: For some reason, even as a keyboard-challenged guitar player, I can play riffs on this interface and jam comfortably. The notes are laid out like stacked bass strings. It's related to GeoSynth and Cantor, but this is the one I seem to have the best success with. Buy 'em all. They're cheap, and we need to support these geniuses.

      And I have a blast tinkering with:

      --Mixtikl: I think I'll be able to use this one to create one of my holy grails: perfect predictable yet ever-evolving ambience for napping.

      --GarageBand: Yeah, I'll admit it. I've used the "smart instruments" in a pro production. Once. Is it cheating when it sounds perfect in context? You tell me. I also use it to sketch quick backing tracks for songs I'm writing.

      Other:

      --Hex OSC full: I invented this hexagonal keyboard layout myself when I was in high school. Dad took me to see a patent lawyer to see if we could make money on it. I never got a chance to fiddle with it 'till this app came out, but they didn't _quite_ get the key touch or tones right. SO I'm still wondering if it makes for a good instrument.

      --TouchOSC, MIDI Touch, V-Control

      --GuitarAtSight, BetterEars, NailThatNote, etc. Ear training, sight reading apps. A little trip to boot camp never hurt the Fat Man. Maybe I'll get good at this stuff someday.

      --I just heard great things about Twisted Wave.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    83. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to. I hear she's got a wild streak in the sack. You got a phone number?

    84. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Blackberry didn't lose sales for a long time. Look where they are now.

    85. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Xaedalus · · Score: 1

      Quiet, you! You're *this* close to being considered an Elder One and being banished back to the eldritch crypts to await the time when the stars are right.

      --
      Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
    86. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      I have an iPhone 3GS and a Samsung tablet. I don't use it that much. Neither do most of the people I know who have tablets. I mostly used it to play games and things like that. You can watch a video in it but the screen is smaller than a computer desktop monitor let alone a TV. There is a reason people plonk down money to go to the cinema to watch a movie. I know Apple tablet users and they mostly use it to read email and play games. You can read email on a smartphone if you are in a hurry. If you are not in a hurry you can use a laptop or desktop. With a real keyboard. I have tried reading books in it but LCDs just aren't up to snuff in that regard. I have tried the iPad too same deal.

      The only applications seems to be games. For that the smartphone is a better more mobile platform.

    87. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > for any of the cool stuff you can do for music production or video on the premiere tablet platform?

      Stop swimming in the Kool-aid.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    88. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      No. The iPod was meant to be a application specific device to play music. The smartphone is a general purpose computing platform. It is not the same thing. The iPod touch uses the same hardware and software platform but most iPod devices sold were not of that model and use a different platform. It just uses too much power for a dedicated music playing device. That dedicated music player market still exists. It is full of cheap Chinese devices. That is why Apple no longer has any profit.

      I had a cellphone, we didn't call them smartphones back then, that played MP3s just fine. Years before the iPhone was launched. You could argue that the iPhone replaced the iPod in that usage scenario, just like general purposes computers replaced a lot of things from typewriters, to calculators, and things like that. Sure. However the music player market still exists just like TVs did not vanish when we went to bigger computer screens. Apple dropped out of that market because they priced themselves out of it. As is happening in the smartphone market and will happen to the tablet market.

      I don't get why people are so defensive about Apple. As a consumer I could care less. I just want whatever fits my purposes at the lowest price. Then again I don't own stock either.

    89. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Yep.but are Apple and Blackberry really comparable?
      Blackberry has no diversification.
      Blackberry has not created a product which has competed with Apple or Googles Android.
      The same cannot be said for Apple and Google android phones. They dominate the market Samsung and Apple at least are making hoards of cash. The rest including hoards of Android makers are scrambling for the scraps right now.

      When exactly do you expect Apple to suddenly go into the red?
      Blackberry is where they are no because of 6 years of decline.
      Since apple is still rising when do you think they are going to top out?
      Will Samsung top out or will they continue to break all records for the next 10 years or so?
      Questions like this should remain for the future, but making statements as to Apple impending demise seems premature since they have not yet maxed out and not even been on a downward trend even. That is my only point.
      People like to say Apple is declining, but there really isn't any financial indication this is so.

    90. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't comment for a list of software, I told it like is, touch screens are unreliable controllers.
      Not a single pro uses one.

    91. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Yeah. You know that adage? You can fool some people every time, or all people some time, but not everyone all the time?

      People may do dumb things. But they learn. Most of them at least.

    92. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by tepples · · Score: 1

      If you only have one PC in the house, then what do players 2, 3, and 4 on your PC games use?

    93. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      While this is true it only skews the timeline of the sales not the total number of sales for a device. The also report returns and above all they report writedowns for manufactured but unsold devices. These are typically very low, unless you're Microsoft and being big on a device which clearly no one wanted.

      That being said this is a Gartner study. It will be biased, paid for, and skewed in a big way.

    94. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since the binary blobs being complained about are just hardware drivers, it apparently is just like that.

      No it is not. Android is still Linux even when you use proprietary closed-source binary blobs too, running that additional software doesn't suddenly make it "not Linux" you fool.

    95. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      The level of hilarious "not getting it" displayed by your comment is staggering.

      I too also had a cellphone "that wasn't called a smartphone back then" too back in the late 90's/early 2000's because the smartphone is a different class of device.

      Your definition of "plays mp3s just fine" is clearly different to the vast majority of consumers, as evidenced by the way the portable digital music player market changed once the iPod was launched. The iPod still exists, but its market was steadily consumed by the rise of the smartphone - which rolled in the features that the iPod provided (easy to use interface, lots of storage, portable, convenient) alongside the other device that people were carrying around more and more; a mobile telephone. It's no surprise that the iPod and the portable phone became essentially the same item since people carry a smartphone around all the time anyway and it's more than capable of providing that function (and by that I am talking about all smartphones, not just iPhone). People who used to carry mobile phones and iPods now carry around iPhones or Android phones, or very occasionally, Windows Phones.

      To state that the iPod was killed off by cheap Chinese devices hilariously misunderstands the nature of the market. This is not "defensive of Apple" it's simply a statement of the buying habits of modern consumers and the rise of the smartphone as the multifunction device of choice, whether that be an iPhone or an Android.

    96. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by exomondo · · Score: 1

      While Android is off the Linux Kernel, it isn't GNU/Linux.

      Of course it isn't, but who cares about that? When you can replace glibc with uClibc or bionic or whatever and various other components is there really any need to separate it from GNU/Linux other than to point out that GNU/Linux distributions have largely failed in the consumer space where non-GNU distributions like Android have done well? Given that I really don't think that has anything to do with GNU I can't see why differentiating between them has any importance at all.

    97. Re: The year of the Linux Tablet by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      I'm quoting a "pro".

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    98. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      No. There were e.g. Sony Ericsson Walkman phones before the iPhone was available. The iPhone brought nothing new to that part of the market. I had an MP3 playing cellphone and I still bought a dedicated MP3 player. Why? More battery life was one of the reasons. MP3 players still get sold as dedicated devices. Apple just does not sell theirs because they priced themselves out of the market. The application specific music playing devices are still sold today.

      Apple's 'innovation' with the iPod was the iTunes store. The 'innovation' was because they managed to get the labels to sell them music where other people failed because they didn't have enough clout or just couldn't be assed to make a decent product. Their 'innovation' was cronyism.

    99. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Android is still Linux even when you use proprietary closed-source binary blobs too, running that additional software doesn't suddenly make it "not Linux" you fool.

      You evidently didn't follow the thread very well, you fool, because it should be obvious that you and I agree 100% on this. Thanks for playing, though.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    100. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      "Honey, how do I get to my folders and files so I can copy some stuff? Shouldn't this work like it does on my computer?"

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    101. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      He's apparently confused her with Hayden Panettiere. Penis erectus non compos mentis, and all that, you know.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    102. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      People like to say Apple is declining, but there really isn't any financial indication this is so.

      Right. Apple is declining in marketshare. Android is declining in negative marketshare. There is no financial issues for Apple right now. There are financial issues for many Android device makers. No one said declining marketshare necessarily means declining profits, necessarily immediately. Cool down.

      Only problem is your imagination of people saying Apple is facing financial issues now or in near future.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    103. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Again, you are hilarious. The iTunes store wasn't introduced until April 2003, and by that time the iPod was already well established as the top media player (the launch of the store coincided with the release of the redesigned third gen iPod, and long after Windows compatibility and the subsequent huge uptick in sales happened).

      You seem to cling to the belief that the iPod failed because it was expensive when in reality it was wildly popular in virtually all incarnations until its feature set was taken over by the smartphone.

      Yes, cheap chinese players with terrible interfaces still exist and did exist before the iPod - the market for those hasn't changed, but the majority of people wanted something other than that, hence the enormous success of the iPod. The popularity dropped off because of iPhone and Android, not because the cheap players that have always been there suddenly became a threat.

      Apple's "innovation" with the iPod was a user interface that was actually pleasant to use. I know Apple haters like to suppress that and anything that they have actually done in product innovation and refining because they weren't literally the first mp3 player to market, but Apple rarely are with any product. What they are very good at is refining an existing concept and making it accessible to a large demographic. Of course, you can continue to fail to see that due to hate of the company, but it's all there in the history of the products.

    104. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      No one said declining marketshare necessarily means declining profits, necessarily immediately. Cool down.

      I wasn't criticizing people for saying anything about profits. My critique was only about people using Marketshare alone as a sign of the beginning of an Apple decline. Many people seem to equate declining marketshare as a sign that Apple is beginning to fade and will fail eventually as a result of this. Apple will eventually decline as all companies in history do, but this particular decline in marketshare on a particular sector of products has nothing to do with a decline by anyone. It has more to do with the commoditization of this particular market. My critique had nothing to do with linking people views on marketshare with their non-stated views about profits.
      People making statements about Apples declining market share and dire predictions of Apple failing rarely mention profits.

      Only problem is your imagination of people saying Apple is facing financial issues now or in near future.

      Did I say "people are saying Apple is facing financial issues..."? I don't believe I used terminology like that.
      What I am responding to are the vary real and unimagined statements so often trotted out on forums like this preceding comment.

      "It's a start, and Apple is on the downhill slide."

      My point is that people say Apple is declining or failing without needing any metric other than market share to supposedly demonstrate this decline. I merely pointed out that this is not the case. And in a more round about way you seemed to also be able to separate the two "declining marketshare [does not] necessarily mean(s) declining profits". Neither does it mean Apple is on a "downhill slide"

      It is not an imagined critique since statements such as the above one pepper the forums all over the web whenever there is an article about market share of android or iOS devices. Fanbois of both Apple and Android litter the forums with commentary about the apparent domination their pet company or impending collapse of the other persons company. Such discussion is rarely relevant since the entire market is really evolving and diversifying.

    105. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      With the Ubuntu phone OS porting over iOS and Android Apps its only a matter of time till we have an open platform.

    106. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Further, is market share a useful metric? I mean, the HP tablet sold like hot cakes once heavily discounted.
      It's much easier to earn market share with super cheap prices, but does that really help google or samsung's bottom line?

      The short answer is no. Market share, at any cost, and any price, is easy.
      Asking people for money is not. And lets be honest, Google and Samsung aren't in this business to spread market share, unless it can be capitalised.

    107. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You evidently didn't follow the thread very well, you fool, because it should be obvious that you and I agree 100% on this. Thanks for playing, though.

      Wrong! It is you who is not following. I never said the practical Android distributions are not Linux due to closed binary blobs, I said it is not open source due to closed binary blobs.

      See you said "Isn't that a bit like saying that my OS is no longer Linux because I'm using the Nvidia driver", but it is not like that at all because it is still Linux, but the system is not open (which is what I was talking about here and you replied to with this failed Linux analogy), I never said anything about it not being Linux. So thankyou for playing, you lose!

    108. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      'well established'. Hah. It was irrelevant in market terms. Sure it was available. Then again the Apple Newton was also available. That doesn't mean it was successful.

    109. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Don't know about audio on a Microsoft tablet, but it's broken on Android, too. They really need to adopt ALSA (better still, ALSA + Jack) or something modern in the underlying Linux layers. Latency today is unpredictable.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    110. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Apple doesn't care that much about market share. And that's not a new thing.

      Look at the Mac PC. I mean, just face it, there are only so many people who are willing to pay twice as much cash to buy a laptop-for-the-desktop (iMac) or overpriced laptop. And yeah, I mean feature for feature... I bought one for my daughter, for college, a year-and-a-half ago. I actually got less laptop (less RAM, fewer ports, lower screen resolution, older Intel i7 chipset) for not-quite-twice the money. It would have been more than twice, but I bought a refurb, from Apple themselves.

      So Apple's got about 5% of the PC market, but over 80% of the $1000+ PC market. That's a very good example of how they work. They're making 30%+ margins on Mac PCs, versus say HP, at about 5%. If Apple really cared that much about numbers, they'd have to drop their margins significantly to increase sales. In the short term, sure, they'd sell lots of Macs. But the cachet of that as an exclusive platform would fail, once it were just as cheap as everyone else. They'd need to sell about 30% of all the PCs on the planet, just to break even selling at HP's margins. And HP actually has high margins, compared to the ubercheap Chinese PCs at the very bottom of the market.

      They've done basically the same thing with iPhones and tablets. The iPhone's market share is kept artificially high by the US sales model -- the average consumer doesn't see what they're paying, so they don't see the iPhone as being more expensive than other smartphones. Of course, it's a different market, but still changing... I don't think we're anywhere near the point of stability that the Mac vs. PC hit. You'll know it, of course, when smartphone news is as boring as PC news.

      There is only one thing that would really bother Apple: a significant drop in iTunes revenue. That could lead to diminished support for iOS applications, and that's not the way you sell a premium priced product.

      As of late last year, iTunes was still bringing in nearly twice as much of the green stuff as Google Play, despite Play having eclipsed iTunes in terms of total downloads. Now, sure, Google Play isn't open in as many countries as iTunes, but it's still an accepted meme that iPhone buyers spend more money on apps and media than Android users. So developers are going to support iOS, and they're going to support Android. Even if Android keeps improving, there's no reason to expect iOS to become a problem, even at lower market shares.

      About the only real thing that could be a problem would be the emergence of a really strong other platform, something strong enough to replace Apple as #2. Does anyone really see Windows Phone, now essentially a Nokia proprietary OS, doing that anytime soon? No one else in sight even has a change... most of the other mobile platforms (FirefoxOS, Sailfish, Tizen, Ubuntu for Phones) are pretty much expecting HTML5 apps to be the norm, not much OS-specific development beyond embedded applications.

      So Apple's optimizing profit, not market share, for the near to medium future. As long as that formula works, I don't think they're going to do much about their installed base. That's different than their worrying about not being a player at all in major markets. They want to be popular in China and India, not an also-ran.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    111. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      If it is "all over the forums", you can find specific instances where someone talked about Apple's financial woes and direct your rant there. Here, someone said Apple is declining, and that is correct w.r.t. marketshare. Android is declining w.r.t. negative marketshare.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    112. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      "Here, someone said Apple is declining, and that is correct w.r.t. marketshare."

      Not exactly
      the poster I was responding too said "Apple is on a downhill slide"
      They didn't qualify it as "Apple is on a downhill slide w.r.t marketshare"

      That is something you injected based on your interpretation.
      There was no qualifying statement to indicate this "downward slide" the poster was alluding to was limited in any sense to a discussion of market share.

      If you don't really appreciate my commentary or wish to read it then you simply don't have to read the entire thread and feel impelled respond. You don't really need to direct me to comment on other forums either. Simply skip over irritating commentary and move along my friend, as do we all.
      I have been commenting for some 17 or 18 years on this forum and have every intention on commenting whatever topic based upon my interpretation of what is being said and with any insights I have. This is what forums are for and I will continue to do so in a way which I deem fit. Thanks for you concern.

    113. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      It means the downward slide applies to at least one aspect.

      Downward slide can never apply to all aspects - e.g. when it applies to marketshare, it does NOT apply to negative marketshare. So the only reasonable conclusion is that a downward slide, unqualified, applies to at least one aspect.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    114. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      When you say "negative marketshare", I would ask if you can clarify what your meaning is.

    115. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      If marketshare is 30%, negative marketshare is -30%.

      I've been using this term from my first reply to you.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    116. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      So Apple is declining in Marketshare in Tablets since they had most of the market when they put the iPad out there.
      How is Android declining in negative marketshare?
      Who exactly has a market of -30%? From my understanding market share begins at zero. Then it goes up from there.
      How can anyone have a negative marketshare?
      Please explain because I fail to understand what you are driving at.

    117. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      No one has a marketshare that is negative. But everyone has a negative marketshare, which is their marketshare multiplied by -1.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    118. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Not fully comprehending. How does everyone have a negative marketshare or a marketshare multiplied by -1?
      For example Apple releases the iPad. Quickly they have a marketshare of 80% or so. There are no android tablets at the time so they have a marketshare of 0%.

      In what context does this negative marketshare exist exactly?
      Above you say "Android is declining in negative marketshare.". How is Android declining in negative marketshare? Are you meaning their marketshare is getting bigger which it is?
      Is apple declining on positive marketshare?

      From my vantage Apple has a declining marketshare. The panoply of Android devices for the 15 or so producers of the devices is gaining in marketshare. What have these 2 apparent facts to do with your concept of negative market share. Do you have a way of illustrating what you ware saying?

      Why is everyones marketshare multiplied by -1?
      What underlying principal would you be performing this operating under?
      Is this some economic statistical model I am unaware of?

      The only negative marketshare term I am familiar with has to do with the idea of negative effect of marketshare and customer satisfaction or the negative effect on marketshare related to mergers and acquisitions.

      Could you tell me a bit more about what you are talking about and why you are using this term?

    119. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Marketshare is never negative. But everyone has a marketshare, which can be multiplied by -1 to yield negative marketshare. What is so hard about it?

      Multiplication by -1 is under the usual principle of multiplication. Consult 6th standard mathematics book for details.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    120. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      But what is the point of arbitrarily multiplying marketshare by -1 and then saying Android is declining in negative marketshare?
      It is meaningless in an economic sense.
      It is meaningless from a marketing perspective.
      I could arbitrarily multiply Apple marketshare by Pi and Android marketshare by Pi and say Android's share of the Pi x Marketplace is bigger than Apples.
      That also would say nothing about anything.

      You say downward slide can never apply to all aspects?
      Aspects of what?
      Then you say when downward slide applies to marketshare, it does not apply to negative marketshare?.What?. a negative marketshare you invent by arbitrarily multiplying marketshare by -1?
      Then you say the only conclusion is that a downward slide unqualified applies to at least one aspect. One aspect of what exactly?

      You must be yanking my chain my friend.
      Remember this all started with my asking a simple question in response the person who posted that apple was on a downward slide. ( a wide open general statement)
      All I said was:
      Which are the important metrics you are using to come to the conclusion Apple is on a downward slide?
      I haven't seemed to have any coherent answer to this particular question since I asked.
      Anyway have fun multiplying everything by -1 to create negative this' and thats'.

    121. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      But what is the point of arbitrarily multiplying marketshare by -1 and then saying Android is declining in negative marketshare?

      1. It is true.
      2. Proof that unqualified downward slide need not mean financial woes, or any woes in general. Remember you were asking people for evidence of Apple's financial woes when they said Apple was on a downward slide?

      I could arbitrarily multiply Apple marketshare by Pi and Android marketshare by Pi and say Android's share of the Pi x Marketplace is bigger than Apples.
      That also would say nothing about anything.

      Yes, you being stupid, would do this even if it proved nothing. My multiplication by -1 proved a point, as I demonstrated above.

      You say downward slide can never apply to all aspects?
      Aspects of what?

      Downward slide of what? Answer to this question of mine is the same as the answer to your above quoted question of yours.

      Remember this all started with my asking a simple question in response the person who posted that apple was on a downward slide. ( a wide open general statement)

      A wide open general statement which you interpreted in a narrow sense so asked evidence of Apple's financial problems, now or in near future. How about letting it remain wide open general ?

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    122. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      An arbitrary point although possibly true does not necessarily answer the question at hand which was what metrics was the OP using to say Apple was on a downhill slide.

      In the case of saying android has a negative marketshare... because you decide to make up something called a negative marketshare by multiplying marketshare by -1 doesn't pertain to anything about the question I was asking which was what metrics was the OP using to make the determination that Apple is on a downhill slide.
      Additionally it is meaningless in real terms unless you can explain how it relates specifically to anything relating to the topic at hand.

      "Yes, you being stupid, would do this even if it proved nothing."
      Personal attack doesn't help you explain anything.

      What does arbitrarily multiplying things by -1 prove exactly? What does defining the result you get as negative prove exactly? That seems to not relate to what I was asking of the OP."

      "Downward slide of what?"
      Since the OP used Apple in the comment "Apple is on the downhill slide" I will insert Apple.

      Therefore if you say the answer to the above question is Apple. Then the qualifier to your statement must be 'downward can never apply to all aspects (of Apple)?
      First off this could be false and so your statement has a fallacy.
      Second, my question never involved all aspects of Apple, but was a simply question of what metrics led the OP to make the statement Apple is on downhill slide.

      Is a question to a person an interpretation suddenly? I think we have different views on what interpretation means.
      I never asked the OP for evidence of Apple's financial problems. I asked for the metrics which would be used in making a statement about apple being on a downhill slide.

        "How about letting it remain wide open general ?"
      How more wide open can a question be than what metrics are you using to come to the conclusion you have stated?
      What would be a better question for me to use to seek the information I was asking about?

    123. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      doesn't pertain to anything about the question I was asking which was what metrics was the OP using to make the determination

      Ok, so you harp about your "question". I was not replying to your question. You said "When exactly do you expect Apple to suddenly go into the red?", which aside from being a question, is a statement that the commenter expects Apple to suddenly go into the red now or in the future. (Read this for how it is wrong). Followed by straight statements, undisguised as questions, like "People like to say Apple is declining, but there really isn't any financial indication this is so".

      So your post to which I originally replied did not come across as a question at all and was full of statements made in the forms of explicit statements or questions.

      In short, no, you cannot pretend you were asking a question.

      What does arbitrarily multiplying things by -1 prove exactly?

      Already explained. "Proof that unqualified downward slide need not mean financial woes, or any woes in general. "

      Then the qualifier to your statement must be 'downward can never apply to all aspects (of Apple)?
      First off this could be false and so your statement has a fallacy.

      No. Profit and loss are definitely aspects of (slides of) Apple. If downward slide is of profits, it is by definition, an upward slide of losses. Losses could be negative in a particular instance, but unquestionably, slides of profits and losses must be in the opposite directions. Hence all aspects, which include both profit and loss, cannot have a downward slide. QED.

      Second, my question never involved all aspects of Apple, but was a simply question of what metrics led the OP to make the statement Apple is on downhill slide.

      I replied to your statements that the downward slide must mean financial woes as explained above - e.g. asking when the commenter expects Apple to post losses.

      How more wide open can a question be than what metrics are you using to come to the conclusion you have stated?

      If you actually just asked a question to the commenter, you would have let the question remain wide open, but you are not correct in retrospective conversion of your own post as a question.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    124. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      "Ok, so you harp about your "question"."
      It is important to start with the original question to define what we are talking. We will work our way patiently out from there if you don't mind. If you call this harping that cannot be helped I suppose, but I don't think it adds any point to the discussion really. Let us forge ahead with the rest of our discussion, but perhaps we can continue without distracting phrases like "harp" or personal assignations like "stupid" which may flavor but also detract from our interesting back and forth.
      "I was not replying to your question."
      Obviously since you seemed to not really have responded to it. Instead you created a false scenario using a mathematical technique to create something which doesn't exist.
      Then you kick it up a notch and try to say this made up proof speaks to something else regarding a companies financial situation.
      The mountain upon you wish to build some structure is not really there. Certainly there is no correlation to the ongoing discussion about Apple and the nature of a downward slide postulated the the OP.

      "You said "When exactly do you expect Apple to suddenly go into the red?", which aside from being a question, is a statement that the commenter expects Apple to suddenly go into the red now or in the future. (Read this [fallacyfiles.org] for how it is wrong)."

      Firsty, asking a question and making the question a statement is a great technique. Very useful in lots of types of discussions, debates and other sorts of communication. Nevertheless my question is a question first and foremost. That was its intention.
      Secondly, the question as asked can be answered openly in any way the poster would care to reply. Your assertion that my question creates a boxed canyon of sorts is not accurate.

      By your link, you are referring too this particular question as a loaded question. As phrased, my question was not designed to trick anyone into answering in a way they didn't intend. It was not the type of question which would make someone incriminate themselves or say anything they did not mean. It was rather open and straightforward. Just like the previous question of mine we were discussing, this question is direct and straightforward.

      For reference: This next poster said, i.e. "Blackberry didn't lose sales for a long time. Look where they are now."
      This is important to my question because Blackberry is actually in the red, having lost billions in dollars an a large chunk of marketshare since their downward slide began. The above statement by the poster statement linking Blackberry's decline to Apples perceived position and possible decline.

      My question of when exactly the poster expected Apple to suddenly go into the red gave the poster the ability to fortify their statement or clear up any misunderstanding.

    125. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Loaded question tutorial:
      1) For my question to be a loaded question, there would have to be a false presupposition and there isn't. Apple will ultimately go into the red and this is an absolute certainty based on empirical data from history. All companies eventually fail if one looks to history. Perhaps there could be a paradigm shift for the Apples and Googles of the world and they will be able to strive on in perpetuity thousands of years. Thus far there is no evidence this will become true. Therefore, there is no falsity in question I put forth. The question is both legitimate and pertinent to the discussion and decidedly not a loaded question by the very tutorial on the subject you linked.

      2) You seem to be trying to make a point that my question is somehow false or setting up a scenario where the poster couldn't reply without saying something they didn't intend. This is not so.

      Since the intent of the poster was pre-stated (i.e Blackberry and Apple might be comparable), and since Blackberry has lost both marketshare and is in the red, then poster could not have been tricked into commenting in a way they didn't mean to since they brought up the comparison to begin with. An answer by the poster to my strait forward question would further elucidate the comment they made on the topic at hand. With my question, they had the opportunity to elaborate in any manner they wanted.

      a. It is important to understand that loaded questions are not fallacious arguments.

      b. The key thing to loaded questions is that they are used to trick people into implying something they did not intend. Not possible with an open question that doesn't set up opposing statements.
      Fact is Blackberry is in the red. The comparison was Blackberry to Apple. All companies will eventually go in the red. Question was when the poster expected Apple to do so. Very straight forward.

      3) per 2b. When someone compares Blackberry and Apple in the context of a downward slide of any kind it is perfectly legitimate question to ask when they think such a thing might occur.

      Conclusion on the loaded question:
      My question doesn't pass the loaded question test in any way.

    126. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      "Followed by straight statements, undisguised as questions, like "People like to say Apple is declining, but there really isn't any financial indication this is so"."

      Do you have a problem with people stating things? Both Statements and Questions are often used in discussions. It helps elucidate where someone is coming from and lets others know what they think and what the reasoning behind their statements and questions is. It is called discussion. Language after all is the mechanism we communicate with.

      "So your post to which I originally replied did not come across as a question at all and was full of statements made in the forms of explicit statements or questions."

      Who says I need to account for how you interpret something. I cannot account for how everyone will interpret what I say nor should anyone really. Perhaps you didn't like what I was saying, perhaps you were skimming and didn't really pick up on what I said correctly, perhaps you disapprove of my statements/questions. I cannot say which of those things is true, but the form in which the words were delivered, regardless of being a statement, or a question was pertinent and directly replying to what others were posting. i.e. appropriate application of language to elicit elaboration of the poster's statements.

      "In short, no, you cannot pretend you were asking a question."
      I was not pretending. I was asking questions. I was making statements. That is what a person does when engaging in dialog.
      "If you actually just asked a question to the commenter, you would have let the question remain wide open, but you are not correct in retrospective conversion of your own post as a question."

      As much as I appreciate you efforts to police my questions, statements, or comment, I will say this:
      1) The OP made a statement.
      2) I responded with a question
      3) Another poster chimed in.
      4) I responded with a bunch of statements
      5) The same poster brought up Blackberry in response to my statements
      6) I asked more questions and made some more statements
      7) You chimed in with your bit about negative marketshare and an offhand assessment of my imagination.
      8).and I have been replying to what you have been saying in the best way I can since.
      It has been an interesting and fruitful conversation for me at least even if we don't seem to be agreeing on things.

      Proof ?
      "[on multiplying marketshare by the number -1 to achieve negative marketshare]
      1. It is true.2. Proof that unqualified downward slide need not mean financial woes, or any woes in general. "
      Multiplying Marketshare by -1 and calling it negative marktshare when there is no such thing is a illogical. You cannot arbitrarily multiply something such as -1 and marketshare of 35% for example and say it signifies anything other than the mere calculation you performed. By creating this calculation there is no formation of a deductive relationship with with the financial woes or non-woes. The calculation by itself is not connected to anything.
      There is no actual purpose or tie-in in terms of anything economic for merely selecting a random number [any economic marketshare] and multiplying it by -1. So although -1 x .35= -.35 is mathematically correct, you cannot extrapolate this mathematical proof and say anything other than I chose to randomly multiply these two numbers.
      Your use of the word proof seems flippant at best to me.
      Your "negative marketplace calculation" says nothing about upward or downward slide. It doesn't say anything in terms of the economic condition of the company. Hence it is a meaningless exercise in my view. Not a proof in other words.

      "Remember you were asking people for evidence of Apple's financial woes when they said Apple was on a downward slide?"
      Yes evidence that has relevance in actual market or economic terms. If someone detects a downward slide I would like to know what metrics they are using to make such a statement.
      Such things as supply chain interruptions, profit margin decreases, i

    127. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Certainly there is no correlation to the ongoing discussion about Apple and the nature of a downward slide postulated the the OP.

      Downward slide could be of losses, profits, marketshare, negative marketshare, wavelength of dominant colour of product logo etc. Since it was unqualified, your statements about Apples finances were presumptuous in the context. That is all.

      Firsty, asking a question and making the question a statement is a great technique

      Yes, but then it makes it impossible to avail of the defence that the comment was only a question and not a statement. Which you tried to avail of, here : question I was asking which was what metrics was the OP using to make the determination that Apple is on a downhill slide.

      Now you accept that you were not asking a question but making a statement, but in this post you were completely hiding behind the facade of your first post here that I replied to being a "question".

      You can make a replacement post that does not harp on "question", and I will gladly consider it. But I refuse to play in this ping-pong between "it was just a question not a statement" and "nothing wrong in making a statement".

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    128. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      "Downward slide could be of losses, profits, marketshare, negative marketshare, wavelength of dominant colour of product logo etc. Since it was unqualified, your statements about Apples finances were presumptuous in the context. That is all."

      Downhill slide could have something to do with losses, the flip side of them aka profits, marketshare or any other in metrics us for a discussion about a business's economic performance.
      Negative markeshare has no bearing on such a discussion since it is not a real metric that is pertinent in analyzing business performance that I am aware of.
      Likewise, measuring the wavelength of the dominant color of a product logo although interesting does not in an of itself lend weight to such a discussion without some hypothesis of how it relates to a particular companies success or not. Wavelength of the color on the company logo is not generally a metric used in analysis of business performance.
      What is fairly obvious is that by downhill slide, the OP is not talking about Apples corporate sledding party, the rains possibly effecting the position of the corporate headquarters, or any other such nonsense one might wish to pull out of the air. But when I asked my original question it was for clarification about the OP's meaning of downhill slide as related to Apple.

      It is precisely because I was wanting characterization of the downhill slide of the OP that I asked my original question. Once more, asking a question and trying to elicit information is reasonable step and not presumptuous. That is what forums are for. discussion.

      "Yes, but then it makes it impossible to avail of the defence that the comment was only a question and not a statement"

      I can't even relate to what you are saying by this.. Question/Statement in the context of a forums is what a forums are all about. The sentence above doesn't even make sense. You will have to construct it more adeptly or I will only be able to guess at what you mean.
      In the spirit of forging ahead with our converstaion I will guess again at your meaning.
      Likely, you think that my question is a statement. It wasn't it was a question. You somehow seem obsessed with saying my question was a statement. If one asks a question and then goes on to have further discussion with other people in the context of a forum with questions and statements, that does not make the original question a statement because the original question gets modified to a statement by subsequent discourse somehow. You have an interesting way of thinking about these things I will give you that. The tenacity with which you are trying to turn my question into a statement is quite extraordinary really. To what ends? For what purpose?
      I can only guess at that as well. It seem possible that in your mind, if you somehow turn this simple question into a statement, then it magically invalidates any discussion I was having. Why you would wish to hold fast to trying to invalidate when I am saying is perplexing and I cannot even quess what your ultimate motivation is. Nonetheless, my commentary is out there and anyone can read it, not read it, challenge what i am saying, agree with what I am saying or whatever. The discussion is on the web and will continue to be in our small little corner of the inter webs.
      But what end is there to debating whether something I said was correctly formed or not, Especially, when it is completely a simple point to understand. That is what is interesting to me about our little back an forth right now. A forums is people discuss things all the time using a vast range of writing and using all kinds of words and approaches to communicate. Why exactly fixate on a pretty mundane question and mount such a monumental effort to turn it into something it is not. That is fascinating to me.

      Another thought just popped into my head in my attempt to quess at what is going on here. Perhaps you are attempting to setup a false dilemma whereby a question is ok to ask, but a question that is somehow a statement is invalid. Then you cou

    129. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Likely, you think that my question is a statement. It wasn't it was a question. You somehow seem obsessed with saying my question was a statement.

      You admitted, nay boasted, in your last post, that your question was a statement. I am done with ping pong. If there is any other matter you want to discuss I would love to partake in it.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    130. Re:The year of the Linux Tablet by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      "You admitted, nay boasted, in your last post, that your question was a statement"

      I boasted no such thing. I acknowledged that asking a question and making a statement with that question is great technique. Doing so is an optimal thing in sales when closing a deal and such. However, I did not boast that my question was a statement. It isn't, nor was intended to be, a statement. Below is what I typed in regards to the part of my response to which you may be referring.

      [Firstly, asking a question and making the question a statement is a great technique. Very useful in lots of types of discussions, debates and other sorts of communication. Nevertheless my question is a question first and foremost. That was its intention.]

      Probing for more information about someones statement is not an optimal time for asking questions which are also statements. It certainly wouldn't be out of bounds, but neither would it be the best approach per se. That is why I asked an open ended question to the OP's post.

      Anyhow it has been fun to exercise my brain. You definitely have a certain adroitness of mind and I look forward to future posts by you.
      I wish you and yours all the best in this exciting year of 2014.

  2. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So what, it took Apple to even do it right the first time. After all those Palm devices and Windows CE devices were just a bunch of low-battery-life devices that forgot their memory when they ran out of power.

    Look OSS and Android guys, it doesn't matter how many how many of the devices are being shipped if all the money is being made on the more developer-friendly iOS ecosystem. If you want people to develop for Android, update Android consistently so that all devices have the same features, and quit letting vaporware and shovelware dominate the marketplace.

    1. Re:So what? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      I don't think it is the quality of the apps that drives people not to purchase the Android version - I think it is the nature of the buyer. Most of these Android tablets are low-end... people saving perhaps $50. Cost conscious people are not going to be the best customers for an app store. Yes, I know there are high-end Android devices. I'd wager that people who buy those end up making just as many app purchases as iPad buyers. I'd also wager that the number of high-end Android devices sold is not a terribly significant part of the market, yet probably accounts for all of the profit.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:So what? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Umm my t/x had great battery life. It didn't lose its mind if the battery would die. its screen was also larger..

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    3. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a developer for mobile devices, I more or less agree with your last statement that this will not attract developers. It has zero value to me in my decision-making. However, I don't think that's the intent of this post. It's probably meant as both plainly informational, and to provoke the sports-fan-like pointless flaming about the different OSes that you've already participated in.

    4. Re:So what? by Nyder · · Score: 2

      I don't think it is the quality of the apps that drives people not to purchase the Android version - I think it is the nature of the buyer. Most of these Android tablets are low-end... people saving perhaps $50. Cost conscious people are not going to be the best customers for an app store. Yes, I know there are high-end Android devices. I'd wager that people who buy those end up making just as many app purchases as iPad buyers. I'd also wager that the number of high-end Android devices sold is not a terribly significant part of the market, yet probably accounts for all of the profit.

      I recently bought myself my first tablet. Cheap, $150 10.1" screen, 1200x800 resolution. Works great. I didn't buy it for gaming, though I do some gaming on it, I didn't buy it for watching videos, though I probably will sometimes. I bought it for viewing comic books. Which is does very decently.

      Will I buy apps? A few, I plan on purchasing, like ComicRack, and maybe an emulator or 2.

      This will hold me over till they start making 12"+ tablets with higher resolutions. (yes, I know you can get 1080p tablets at 9" but seriously, I want more screen, not higher resolution in a smaller space.)
       

      --
      Be seeing you...
    5. Re:So what? by koan · · Score: 0

      I think people just randomly down load shits apps because they are 'free", and get what they deserve.

      I'm sure Android encouraged it to "grow their app market" and now that they have they should take a iron fist to it and clean that shit up.

      Apple was good about that, but at the same time overly authoritarian in telling you what you could and couldn't use, and removing stuff they didn't like.

      All the apps I use on Android are professionally developed and look/work great.
      But then I'm past that point in my life where I download willy nilly.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    6. Re:So what? by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I too think there is a market for larger tablets. Smaller and smaller no matter how great the resolution leaves my old eyes somewhat tired.
      On the flip side, I could use a phone that is actually smaller than the platters they keep putting out.
      I want the phone to be a phonesure it needs a few apps, but that is just to get by while on the move when I am not near some bigger screen.

      The way it seems now.. phones are getting bigger, tablets smaller. Pretty soon there will just be one big phone-tablet to tote around.
      hahahaha

    7. Re:So what? by technomom · · Score: 1

      As good as Apple was, it still had its share of Fart apps in the app store. It was kind of a running gag early on. It wasn't just Android that suffered from this.

    8. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft did not win in the 90's because they were better, but because they were the lowest cost product at the time

    9. Re:So what? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Samsung dominates Android tablet sales. ASUS, Amazon, and Lenovo are the next 3 leading brands of Android tablets (combined they are about half the Android tablet space - meaning on-par with Apple in total tablet sales). None of them sell low-end/cheap tablets. It's not price that is driving people to Android tablets - it is their familiarity with Android via their cell phones. Android dominates cell phones; it is only natural that people used to Android on their phone would look to use the same platform for their tablet.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    10. Re:So what? by AuMatar · · Score: 2

      Samsung Galaxy Note Pro. Already on sale, 12 inch tablet with 2600x1500? resolution. Not sure on the exact number for the other dimension, but its available now.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    11. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft did not win in the 90's because they were better, but because they were the lowest cost product at the time

      They got there by a combination of being better and being everywhere. IBM tried to limit OS/2 to features on IBM hardware in an effort to tie the software to hardware rather than exploit all the hardware it could run on and as a result the product was inferior, by the time they addressed this shortcoming it was too late. The Mac didnt even get pre-emptive multitasking until OSX. Linux was in its infancy and the Commodore and Amiga were still trying desperately to keep software and hardware tied together.

      It was the low barrier to entry of a system that was widely supported and widely compatible.

    12. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most of these Android tablets are low-end... people saving perhaps $50.

      This cartoon was written and drawn by someone who has worked at stores doing Black Friday sales, and while silly is somewhat based on his experience with bargain shoppers.

      Under the color comic there is his original black-and-white comic he drew right after Black Friday. I don't want a Kindle Fire but I would rather get one than a Coby... I've seen both.

      http://shotgunshuffle.com/seven-steps-of-the-sale/

    13. Re:So what? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Some vietnamese dude was making $50K a day on some stupid 2-days of code app called "flappy bird".

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    14. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iOS is not more dev friendly

    15. Re:So what? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      They may not be super-low-end, why did I buy this piece of crap tablets - but buying a Kindle will save you over $50 compared to the cheapest iPad. And Kindles reach down almost into the super-low-end for the older models. The other brands that you mentioned are as cheap or cheaper. I have two Kindles - the kids play Minecraft on them and my wife plays Candy Crush. On the newer Kindle, I watch Netflix/Prime on it. We bought Kindles instead of iPads because we are on a self-imposed but tightly enforced budget... we are cheap and we have a system! We aren't good app customers, I'm afraid.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    16. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They got there in the 80's by being chosen by IBM then enforcing per machine licensing on OEMs for MS-DOS meaning that DR DOS couldn't get a look in even though it was cheaper because the OEMs had already had to pay for MS DOS.
      They managed to get windows in before they where stopped from this practice but to make a competing product was a lot more difficult for windows than DOS (the poor documentation didn't help).
      So they where neither better nor cheaper but had an effective monopoly in the PC OS market

    17. Re:So what? by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Hey I just want to be able to swap the battery!

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    18. Re:So what? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So in what way is the Kindle Fire lower end than an iPad mini (other than price)? What are the low-end tablets from ASUS and Lenovo? Look at what the companies offer - they offer high-end solutions like Samsung. Are they as expensive as the iPads? No. But they are equal (or higher) resolution screens, more onboard storage, equivalent processors, etc. The product may sell at a lower price (like the Kindle Fire HDX compared to the iPad mini) but the hardware is definitely not low-end.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    19. Re:So what? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      So in what way is the Kindle Fire lower end than an iPad mini (other than price)?

      Assuming you mean the HDX, it's only price. I don't think Amazon makes much profit on the hardware. My whole thesis is based on price - I'm not considering hardware at all.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    20. Re:So what? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So in that case, the Vertu phones are highest of the high end, the best phones you can get. Everything else is spyware riddled crap...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    21. Re:So what? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Well, I'd wager that Vertu phone buyers would not really blink at paying for apps. I don't think I can comment on the quality.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    22. Re:So what? by hazydave · · Score: 1

      2560x1600... a bit higher than my dual monitors on my high-end-ish PC (2560x1440, along with one 1920x1200). But of course, less actually usable space. Even as a big tablet, a 12.2" screen has its limits.

      This is a good tablet. I bought one a few weeks ago at Best Buy in Delaware. The last one at a Best Buy in Delaware -- they had sold out of the 64GB version, as well as all of the 32GB 10" Notes. The pen is a big advantage in using the tablet for real work... I had it on a loaner Note 8, and I can't really go without. I'm pretty good wiht the 12.2" size, but I can see smaller people getting tired with one this big, used for reading or note taking.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    23. Re:So what? by m.dillon · · Score: 1

      Actually, iOS *is* more developer friendly. Writing an App for Android's infinite screen dimensions and densities is a nightmare.

      -Matt

  3. Sales figures by Trogre · · Score: 1

    Where do they get their sales figures from? Do they include sites like DX, madeinchina et al?

    If not, then I'm pretty confident Android has been outselling iOS for several years now.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:Sales figures by Rosyna · · Score: 3, Informative

      No idea how they make up sales numbers.

      Apple's own sales numbers say they sold 74 million iPads in 2014. Not sure how gartner lost 4 million.

      Also, Apple's numbers are reported as sales to users, everyone else uses sales to channel (the channel can return unsold stock to the company in the following quarter but can still claim it sold that many)

    2. Re:Sales figures by Old97 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And a couple of other suspicious things here. 1) Shipped doesn't mean sold as you say, but it can include give aways like when you buy a Samsung TV and get one of their pads for free. Yeah, if you gave me a Samsung tablet I'd take it. Then I'd give it to a poor relative or kid down the street. Not worth anything to me. Also, the "Other" category out ships all the other Android OEMs including the top 3 Android OEM's combined. Sorry, but its pretty arbitrary to put a crappy knock off for the 3rd world market with a state of the art iPad or equivalent. Finally, Gartner predicted that the iPhone would be a flop in 2007 and again in 2008. Their fantasies about MS products in the mobile market are pretty imaginative too.

      --
      Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
    3. Re:Sales figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not worth anything to me.

      ill get you an apple sticker for it, then it will be worth hundreds and you will love it!

    4. Re:Sales figures by breeze95 · · Score: 1

      No idea how they make up sales numbers.

      Apple's own sales numbers say they sold 74 million iPads in 2014. Not sure how gartner lost 4 million.

      Also, Apple's numbers are reported as sales to users, everyone else uses sales to channel (the channel can return unsold stock to the company in the following quarter but can still claim it sold that many)

      They can't claim in their financial statements shipments to sales channels as sales if a right to return clause exists. If companies claim sales on shipments to channels when a right to return exists then they are committing fraud (see Worldcom and FASB Issue No. 48). Also, adjusting Apple's units sold to 74 million doesn't change Apple's market share by much. By my calculation, Apple market share goes from approximately 38% to 40% and Google goes from 62% to 60%. Hardly a big change.

  4. Trollbait article by swb · · Score: 1

    Given that Android licensing costs are near zero and there aren't any other viable choices, why is Android a surprise at all? As for the sales volume, the low end of the market is big numbers. You can make Mercedes profit if you sell VW volume.

    I'm curious what the sales numbers are for Surface Pros. I'm in the market for a new laptop and the Surface Pro is appealing as a sort of replacement. My existing dual-core 8 GB Dell with a 500 GB SSD is kind of a tank but with the SSD it's still usable for networking tasks. But for a lot of what I do, the Surface Pro would be fine and I could drag out the laptop if I really needed it.

    My only fear is that I would accessorize it to death -- BT mouse, ethernet dongle, a bunch of USB sticks, and be basically back to lugging around the laptop.

    1. Re:Trollbait article by linuxci · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd avoid any of these compromise tablets like the surface. I've used them (at work) an they really combine all the disadvantages of a tablet with the disadvantages of a laptop, they're the worst of both worlds.

      For example, you can't use the keyboard cover of the surface unless it's on a flat surface. Personally I often use my laptop in bed, which needs a solid keyboard.

      The surface has a mix of Metro and desktop UI, I ended up getting frustrated when trying to manipulate the desktop UI I ended up plugging in a mouse.

      Some of the control panel items are in Metro, others are Windows Classic.

      Microsoft have not shown a good history in updating their consumer devices, for example most Windows Phone 7 devices could not be updated to WP 8.

    2. Re:Trollbait article by symbolset · · Score: 1

      If Surface Pro was selling in significant numbers do you think the Seahawks defense could stand between Steve Ballmer and the TV cameras? I don't.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:Trollbait article by jkonrath · · Score: 1

      > You can make Mercedes profit if you sell VW volume.

      Too bad VW doesn't make Mercedes profit selling VW volume, or this would be a great analogy.

    4. Re:Trollbait article by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Given that Android licensing costs are near zero and there aren't any other viable choices, why is Android a surprise at all? As for the sales volume, the low end of the market is big numbers. You can make Mercedes profit if you sell VW volume.

      Interesting that you used the VW analogy. It's kind of fitting as VW is owned by VAG (Volkswagen Auto Group) and they also own Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti and Skoda in their entirety as well as 49% of Porsche.

      Much like Android, VAG services the entire market from high volume sales of VW and Skoda to mid range Audi's to high end Lamborghini supercars. It's easy for VAG to outsell someone like TVR who only offers one or two products. With Android you can find the tablet you want from a budget minded Skota Octavia to a full blown Lamborghini Gallardo and option them to your liking and much like the TVR Segaris, Apple's tablets are really limited in purpose and missing a lot of key features.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    5. Re:Trollbait article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows Phone 7 devices were however upgraded to 7.5, which included a lot of the 8 features back-merged.

      The reason why they could not be upgraded was due to the hardware requirements and substantial changes to the OS ... it's essentially the same argument as why Apple doesn't want you running iOS7 on the iPhone 3.

    6. Re:Trollbait article by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      How do you type on an ipad in bed?

    7. Re:Trollbait article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A football reference on Slashdot is like having a discussion about what girl parts really are and actually look like and that there is a world that is above ground that has light and other people, many of whom have the aforementioned girly parts. In other words, useless, nonrelevent, and an utter waste of time exactly like sports really are.

    8. Re:Trollbait article by Wild_dog! · · Score: 3, Informative

      Our iPad gets probably 30 hours use a week by all of our family. It seems to be useful to each member of the family for different purposes.
      Perhaps it is missing key features, but I don't really think we notice because we each have our own way of using it.
      And when we need real computing power we just jump on the desktop machine.

      We haven't really regretted having an iPad for any reason.

    9. Re:Trollbait article by tlambert · · Score: 2

      How do you type on an ipad in bed?

      Bluetooth keyboard or type on the screen, but the BT keyboard from Apple is a keyboard in a laser cut aluminum case, so it's not nearly as bendy as the surface keyboard.

    10. Re:Trollbait article by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      It would have make a nice netbook, for those of us who prefer a small form factor.

      They'd have a hope of gaining traction against Android if only they slashed the price and went with a Silvermont Atom instead of a Tegra/Core i5.

    11. Re:Trollbait article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By whacking the screen-keyboard with your knob while fapping to pr0n.

    12. Re:Trollbait article by plover · · Score: 2

      Despite the Metro UI, I like my Surface Pro a lot more than my iPad, and I use it constantly. It doesn't suffer from the walled garden of iOS, and I have a ton of programs installed. Very few Metro apps from the app store, however - I mostly have desktop and command line stuff from sourceforge (plus the obligatory Office suite.) The Microsoft app store is lacking, so I rarely think of it as an iPad type tablet. Instead, I think of it as a very portable laptop. And with the i5 and the SSD, performance hasn't been a problem.

      Even though I lug them both around in my backpack, and the Surface is twice as heavy as the iPad, I use the iPad only about once a week these days, and that's only because of some iOS-only apps I need for work. Otherwise, the Surface is my go-to portable platform.

      Plus, ever since iOS 7 came out, both platforms are now essentially equally ugly. iOS 7's UI changes are about the best gift Apple could have given Microsoft.

      --
      John
    13. Re:Trollbait article by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Half the Android tablets sold came from Samsung, ASUS, Amazon, and Lenovo. I don't think they sell low-end tablets... It's not the price that is driving Android to double-up on iOS; it's a natural extension of Android dominating the cell phone world. If you have an Android phone, the natural OS to consider for a tablet is Android - you already know it, you have the apps. Since Android doubled up on iOS in terms of market share, it's only natural for tablets to end up the same way.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    14. Re:Trollbait article by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      With the sole exception of WP7 (which received three major updates - NoDo (sometimes called 7.1), Mango (7.5), and 7.8 - and a number of small ones (security fixes and the like), I really don't see how you can argue that at all. OK, there's the Kin, which sold horribly (arguably, both MS and Verizon were *trying* to kill it by the end) and was discontinued immediately; I don't know what (if any) updates it got. However, Zunes all received plenty of updates. Xboxes of all generations received updates. WP8 has received three updates so far and it is confirmed all of them will get WP8.1 as well. Windows RT devices receive both the standard Windows patch Tuesday updates, and have received a number of firmware updates; they also got the 8.1 update.

      At this point in iOS's life cycle, its devices didn't get updates past two years since release either. Microsoft is doing just fine on updates. The only place Apple has an advantage over them is the ability to force updates out without letting the carriers dither and sit on them for months (which some carriers have done for a few WP updates, to be sure). However, since WP8 update 3 went RTM, MS has allowed people to opt into receiving updates immediately, bypassing the OEM and carrier update processes.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    15. Re:Trollbait article by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      The on screen keyboard works well on the surface. I'm using it right now.

    16. Re:Trollbait article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This post is totally relevant. You even made your most important point without even trying to: The same pretentious stuck up hipster douchebags that deepthroat Apple daily are also the same types that buy TVRs! Good catch :D

    17. Re:Trollbait article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven't used a good Android on-screen keyboard then. The keyboard on Windows 8.x sucks, and is one its more annoying aspects.

    18. Re:Trollbait article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I hadn't learned to type this way it causes problems in work...

    19. Re:Trollbait article by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I have the Surface 2, and I have to say I like it better than the iPad, even with the limited app selection. I like that I can browse my shared folders without installing an app. I like that I can put an SD card in for extra storage. I like that it has full USB and I can plug in a variety of devices. The browser is great. Apart from a few games, I haven't found a need for a lot of apps because it comes with a lot of functionality built in.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    20. Re:Trollbait article by linuxci · · Score: 1

      How do you type on an ipad in bed?

      Using the on-screen keyboard!

      However, my point was that the Surface was supposed to be the best of both worlds (tablet and laptop) when it's actually the worst of both worlds.

      e.g. you want to use it as a laptop, you have to have it on a flat table, you can't use it like that on your lap, or on an uneven surface like in bed (sometimes I might get a call in the middle of the night, it's easier to pick up the laptop and work from the bed).

      If you want to use it as a tablet, you then have the problem of interacting with the desktop, some settings are still in the old control panel, others are in a metro style interface. Trying to use desktop style apps with the touchscreen is frustrating.

      Microsoft should have promoted the idea that apps should have a desktop mode (optimised for keyboard and mouse) and a metro mode (optimised for touch). Have apps display in Metro mode when out and about, but have the ability to switch to desktop mode if you dock the device.

      Those who are using the device as a tablet should never have to interact with the desktop, but sometimes at the weirdest moment you try and change a setting and up pops a desktop app.

      We also know how frustrating it is the other way round too. If you're using Windows 8.1 on a computer, it can be very annoying if a Metro app pops up and takes over the screen.

  5. Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

    But I have both an iPad and a Nexus 7, both new as of about 6 months ago. The Nexus is getting a lot more use by me on a day-to-day basis because it's the form factor of a kindle, fits in my jacket pocket and is easy to hold, read, and play games on.

    The iPad is mostly collecting dust unless I want to watch Netflix, TiVo, or Amazon Prime videos on it. It's a much larger screen but it makes it a bit unwieldy to easily hold. My wife has the air. I think it's still a bit too wide to easily carry with you, but she likes it.

    As for the Surface tablets, I finally got a good chance to look at them last week. They're much bulkier than I was expecting.

    1. Re:Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I'm biased because I've been using Android since the OG Droid, on my 4th Android phone now.

    2. Re:Slightly biased... by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Should let your wife have your other iPad.
      You can mount it in the kitchen for you and your wife to use for recipes and pandora.
      Old iPad are perfect for mounting in Kitchens.

    3. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I got my Nexus 7 my Ipad became irrelevant. I gave it to the kids, the nexus is far more useful, easier to carry around, and does what I want it to do, rather than what Apples wants it to do. The ipad is a nice toy, but thats about it.

    4. Re:Slightly biased... by brantondaveperson · · Score: 2, Informative

      ... because it's the form factor of a kindle

      I'm wondering, if you wanted a 7" tablet, why you didn't buy an iPad mini instead? Seems a bit unfair to criticise the iPad on size, when the mini is available and is pretty much the same size as a Nexus 7. Not to mention a bit cheaper than the full size iPad.

      As a counter-datapoint, I took a couple of Nexus 7's home during the Christmas holidays. And the kids didn't like them at all, and instead fought over the one iPad. Now, this might just be because kids are dumb and like the bigger thing just because it's bigger, and also I'm beginning to suspect that they also quite like fighting just for the hell of it. But the Nexus' didn't charge their batteries while in use and plugged in, whereas the iPad did. Pretty annoying.

    5. Re:Slightly biased... by linuxci · · Score: 1

      The Nexus 7 is a great tablet, but if you're talking about a full size iPad you should compare to the Nexus 10.

      In the UK there's also the Tesco Hudl which is another Android tablet which has managed to combine cheap with reasonably capable. It's close enough to stock Android (it has a few Tesco customisations) that I was pleasantly surprised by it and are happy recommending it to those who would even consider the Nexus 7 too expensive. I prefer it to the Kindle Fire devices.

      You're right about the bulkiness of the Surface. The one we have in the office looks like a floor tile when the keyboard cover is closed.

    6. Re:Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

      What do you think my 2012 Nexus is going to be doing?

    7. Re:Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering, if you wanted a 7" tablet, why you didn't buy an iPad mini instead?

      I need to think more before posting. My wife has the iPad mini (not the air, though I understand they have the same size). Anyway, the mini is too wide to easily hold in one hand for reading in bed/bus/car/anywhere. The Nexus is about the largest I'd want to go for something I'm going to be using for hours at a time.

    8. Re:Slightly biased... by koan · · Score: 1

      Nexus 7 fits in my back pocket, it's quick and has everything I need.

      My experience with the iPad was a lot less pleasant, as you stated size is a factor, but it's battery ran down quicker as well.
      The Nexus seems to run forever.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    9. Re:Slightly biased... by koan · · Score: 1

      iPad mini sucks.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    10. Re:Slightly biased... by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      For what are you using it?
      Sucks in what way?
      Sucks is a fairly wide open non-specific descriptor.

    11. Re:Slightly biased... by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Awesome I love battery life.
      Can't wait to try a Nexus 7. Do you know if the Nexus 10 have long battery life as well?

    12. Re:Slightly biased... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 5, Informative

      My two year old iPod Touch is considered obsolete by Apple. I paid full retail for it and it can't run the new iOS. It was one of my biggest mistake purchases recently.

    13. Re:Slightly biased... by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. The air is actually larger than the mini, it's just thinner and lighter than the older models. I do agree that the Nexus 7 is a nice form factor, I just wish it was easier to figure out which way up it was so I could turn the thing on without trying four times (somehow I get the wrong corner three times in a row before finding the little button).

      If you're using tablets for hours at a time, you've got more patience than me :)

    14. Re:Slightly biased... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      That guy at Apple (rip) said I would need to file down my fingers, for a start.

      I kid, though. I haven't had to file down anything. I have a 7" Galaxy Tab and an 8" Win 8.1 tablet. I tried a 10.1" Acer android tablet before the Galaxy Tab but it was too heavy to use so I returned it.

    15. Re:Slightly biased... by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Choices are a great thing!

    16. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the Nexus' didn't charge their batteries while in use and plugged in

      I have the original Nexus 7 (not the new one) and I assure you that that it charges while in use and plugged in.

      I have a Nexus 10, and I assure you that it charges while in use and plugged in.

      You might try using a different power brick. If you know someone else with a Nexus 7, you might try theirs out. Something unusual is going on with the ones you have.

    17. Re:Slightly biased... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I stopped using iDevices months ago. Gave my iPhone 4 yo my daughter and bought a Nexus 5. While iOS has some usability advantages, the agonies of iTunes and no access without jailbreaking to the file system finally got the better of me.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    18. Re:Slightly biased... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      the agonies of iTunes and no access without jailbreaking to the file system finally got the better of me.

      These seem to be the very factors in Mrs Zontar's apparent nascent conversion away from her iPhone and iPad.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    19. Re:Slightly biased... by symbolset · · Score: 1

      The Nexus 10 has a really nice display. I wish they would release the new model with the better CPU soon though.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    20. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My two year old iPod Touch is considered obsolete by Apple. I paid full retail for it and it can't run the new iOS. It was one of my biggest mistake purchases recently.

      You are on slashdot and you call two years back a recent purchace?

    21. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4th gen iPod touch was obsolete when it came out with its half the RAM of an iPhone 4. Those things are a huge PITA because of that (app dev)

    22. Re:Slightly biased... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

      Considering the iPod Touch limitations, why would you need iOS7 anyway?

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    23. Re:Slightly biased... by Bongo · · Score: 1

      desk - 24"
      sofa - 10"
      bus - 7"
      walking - 4"

    24. Re:Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

      The reasons I upgraded were pretty simple, but two best reasons are that the new one has T-Mobile LTE on it (the old one was Wifi only) and I bought both for less than the cost of a comparable iPad (even mini).

    25. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPad mini sucks.

      Does it charge $5?

    26. Re:Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

      I got a cover for it, so it's pretty easy to tell which side is up. And even then, Android is pretty good at screen rotation, even if upside down.

    27. Re:Slightly biased... by Enry · · Score: 1

      You need 4 devices, I can use 1.

      (ok, so I really have 4+ as well, but I could and usually do collapse down to 1 or 2, usually the nexus 7 and my cell phone)

    28. Re:Slightly biased... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      I am on Slashdot, where there are people like me, who have hardware older than the average age of people who frequent the site. We're nerds here. People who leap at glee with new product releases aren't nerds, they're misguided wannas. Yeah, that blow-dried teen in a TV show you watch religiously isn't a nerd either.

    29. Re:Slightly biased... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Some of us here think the VAX is new technology.

      Get off my lawn

      Sent from my PDP11 using RSX11

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    30. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And? Most android vendors don't ship updates after 2 years. It's starting to change, but it's not like you are out anything. The device still works. It is irritating just like it was when Apple dropped support for my iPhone 3g before the 2 year contract was up and I had to deal with security vulnerabilities for 3 months.

    31. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, not being able to run iOS7 is an advantage.

    32. Re:Slightly biased... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > I'm wondering, if you wanted a 7" tablet, why you didn't buy an iPad mini instead?

      In my case, Apple didn't sell them at the time. The hive mind was still too busy trying to denigrate the idea and anyone who wanted one.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    33. Re:Slightly biased... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You don't actually need iTunes for an iPhone, and for the limited things it'll do that over-the-air won't it's not going to be that much of a bother. (Usually. YMMV, of course.) Personally, I haven't found lack of access to the file system to be a problem, so I suspect that's a fairly minor problem even in this community. Not being able to freely program it annoys me more.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:Slightly biased... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I plug my Nexus 5 or Nexus 7 into my laptop, I can move files through the laptop's file browser on or off the device. No special software, no nothing. I can use a file browser on the Nexus to navigate to the files, delete, edit or move on the files much as I would in a Windows or *nix GUI. I don't need some colossal, slow and bug-ridden monstrosity to do any of it. What's more, with Dropbox and Google Drive, I have alternative means of moving files, regardless of what app opens them, as a block of files.

      I tired of iOS and its restrictions on me using my device. I don't want to have to use a bloated piece of software just to move files on to the device. If you don't mind, bully for you, but for me, everything about Android, at least on my Nexus devices, is many times easier. Having a tablet or phone I can basically use like a USB stick is far more useful and painless for me.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    35. Re:Slightly biased... by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      Considering the iPod Touch limitations, why would you need iOS7 anyway?

      Installing new apps that require it maybe? Every time iOS is revved, the app store is inundated with "updates" whose only new discernible feature is that it requires the new OS. Then, there's no way to install the old version. I bought a used iPhone a couple years ago and got locked out of Skype because of that particular "feature."

    36. Re:Slightly biased... by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      I have had 2 iPod touches and an iPhone. My sons have iPod touches. There is no email app available under Android that is anywhere as nice to use as the stock iOS app. Not even close. Where are the multi-threaded, Exchange ready apps that don't suck your battery dead in 4 hours? However, after using Swype/Google keyboard, I would never go back to Apple. And it's nice to have an app that shows WiFi signal strength in a meaningful manner. And I appreciate a GPS app that actually gives real GPS information.

    37. Re:Slightly biased... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The comment that proves that you're just a troll...

    38. Re:Slightly biased... by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Screen rotates, that's great. Buttons tend to stay in the same place though. It honestly does take me three goes to turn the thing on.

    39. Re:Slightly biased... by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Yup... Android owners only upgrade every two years. We're not crazy like iOS users, breaking contracts, buying $900 phones, because we can't stand not having the very latest. Sure, I'm typing this on brand new 12" tablet, but in general, I do keep these things 2 years. My PC gets upgraded more on a 3-4 year cycle all told, but that's also not necessarily a one - shot deal. For example, I upgraded the main system last summer, but kept the GPU from the previous incarnation. That'll get upgraded when I'm certain the upgrade will do me enough good to justify the price. I'm about 3-4 years on cameras, too.

      Once the phone/tablet market slows down, and, well, makes indestructible devices, I expect the upgrade pace to slow significantly.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  6. Kind of Surprised at only 62% by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

    Seems like with tablets quickly approaching the $40 range they are almost a disposable commodity. I would expect Android tablets will quickly get to over 90% of the market in short order since everyone will be able to have one of these powerful little computing devices.

    1. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Sort of.

      Quality tablets are not approaching that range. But i do agree that sub 50 dollar tablets are disposable ( and also a dismal experience which can harm the perception of android in general )

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      To a family in the slums of Brasil or some other places outside the US or Europe these are powerful devices.
      $40 bucks gives people a way to finally have some computing power and tap into the worldwide info grid.

    3. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardware trickles downward

    4. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Half the Android tablets sold came from Samsung, ASUS, Amazon, and Lenovo. Those are not low-end, disposable products. The high end of Android tablets sells as well as iOS. Android just benefits from also having lower end products in the mix as well - which allows Android to double the volume of iOS.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I think that Androids will likely exceed 90% of the market because of the lower end devices and not because of the high end ones. This is simply because of basic economics. People with lesser means will want a tablet like anyone else, but if they can't afford to get a higher end device, a lower end device will serve their needs/wallet. Those lower end disposable commodity products are beginning to appear and will drive the numbers game.

      A $40 price tag lowers the threshold in a way that many more devices can and will be sold. Those will become ubiquitous. Premium products will be premium products, but like watches or cars, only relatively few on the planet will have a Bugatti or "Lange and Sohne".More people will get a Kia or Timex. Same with tablets.

      In the end, everyone will have a tablet but those tablets won't be higher end Apple tablets or the various higher end Android tablets.

    6. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Possibly, but if it follows the phone market, about half the Android tablets will be high-end; the other half will be lower end product.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      The phone market is subsidized so people don't know what things cost. Free this and free that everywhere just sign the next couple years of your life getting ripped off for the privilege.

      Tablets people have to flat out buy no subsidy.

    8. Re:Kind of Surprised at only 62% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the end, everyone will have a tablet

      I'd still rather have a netbook than a tablet but I will eventually die. I don't know if people will still be buying tablets at that time however.
      It is still possible I'd end up with one as a gift but unlikely.

  7. Sailfish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can someone explain the appeal of Sailfish? To me it seems like a gesture heavy take on android that doesn't seem especially interesting for the amount of attention it's getting.

    1. Re:Sailfish by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      It is more like a traditional GNU/Linux distribution. Just to take an example; if you want to install an app then nothing stops you from ssh:ing into the phone and install the rpm directly or through a frontend like yum or zypper.

    2. Re:Sailfish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is more like a traditional GNU/Linux distribution. Just to take an example; if you want to install an app then nothing stops you from ssh:ing into the phone and install the rpm directly or through a frontend like yum or zypper.

      The lack of appeal in doing such things just highlights some bad points that Linux developers don't get if they want to have it used more. Yum? Zypper? The names make zero sense as to the function of the service, plus they are odd/wanting to sound l33t as well. Intuitive it is not.

    3. Re:Sailfish by The123king · · Score: 1

      BREAKING NEWS! A UNIX-LIKE OS CAN BE SSH'D INTO AND SOFTWARE INSTALLED ON IT VIA COMMAND LINE

      Linux can do it, Android can do it, Mac OS X can do it, and i can also do it on my jailbroken iDevices. Simply having a Linux package manager means nothing, after all, both Macports and Cydia (for jailbroken iOS devices) use the Debian .DEB package manager, and they're definitely not Linux.

      Don't get me wrong though, Sailfish is much closer to a real "conventional" GNU/Linux distro than Android is. IIRC it uses X.org, and it's main UI toolkit is QT, as well as having most of the same subsystems as a conventioal Linux distro would expect. This means that porting apps from GNU/Linux to Sailfish should be easier than porting from Android. Either way, Sailfish is a very interesting prospect indeed

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    4. Re: Sailfish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right: we should stick to names like Excel and PowerPoint, which are are clearly named for their functions.

    5. Re:Sailfish by The123king · · Score: 1

      God help you if you ever try Haiku OS.

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    6. Re:Sailfish by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      It is more like a traditional GNU/Linux distribution. Just to take an example; if you want to install an app then nothing stops you from ssh:ing into the phone and install the rpm directly or through a frontend like yum or zypper.

      The lack of appeal in doing such things just highlights some bad points that Linux developers don't get if they want to have it used more. Yum? Zypper? The names make zero sense as to the function of the service, plus they are odd/wanting to sound l33t as well. Intuitive it is not.

      You can always do the same thing by clicking the install thingie in the store app. But what do I know, some people want choice.

    7. Re:Sailfish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BREAKING NEWS! A UNIX-LIKE OS CAN BE SSH'D INTO AND SOFTWARE INSTALLED ON IT VIA COMMAND LINE

      I find this mostly interesting since most Android phones don't offer this feature even when it is technically feasible.

    8. Re:Sailfish by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      It is more like a traditional GNU/Linux distribution. Just to take an example; if you want to install an app then nothing stops you from ssh:ing into the phone and install the rpm directly or through a frontend like yum or zypper.

      The lack of appeal in doing such things just highlights some bad points that Linux developers don't get if they want to have it used more. Yum? Zypper? The names make zero sense as to the function of the service, plus they are odd/wanting to sound l33t as well. Intuitive it is not.

      Can you install GIMP?

    9. Re:Sailfish by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      No one has ported it as far as I know, but it is technically feasible and should mostly be a matter of redesigning the user interface to work with the Sailfish interface guidelines.

  8. ANDROID != LINUX by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't believe.

    There is NO Posix userspace on Android.
    Posix kernel land is locked/limited.

    Why does it take 16 GB RAM to compile the Android tarball? That's some BEAUTIFUL community inclusion!

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats called power

    2. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Interesting.... I wonder if that is true for all Android devices or some Androids. I wonder why a company would say that their OS can be installed on Android devices when it can't???
      Curious.
      I thought there were some other Open Source OS options for Android devices I had read about. Is this not the case?

    3. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1, Informative

      1. install or use a terminal emulator or console app
      2. at the prompt type "uname -a"
      3. observe Linux kernel information

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
    4. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      Thats called power

      If that were true... whatsit say about Windows.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    5. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by farble1670 · · Score: 3, Funny

      ~/src (develop) $ adb shell
      root@android:/ # uname -a /system/bin/sh: uname: not found
      127|root@android:/ #

    6. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by schnell · · Score: 5, Informative

      So what?

      Giving Linux credit for Android is like saying that FreeBSD is a major desktop OS because of MacOS X, or a major mobile OS because of iOS. It's not. All the bits that make it a success were added by someone else and the underlying kernel is essentially invisible to the end user.

      Celebrate Google's success with Android. Don't try to turn it into a success story for Linux when it's not. Linux has succeeded remarkably well in the server and embedded spaces but has not been terribly successful in the desktop or mobile spaces. And you know what? That's okay.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    7. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's the Linux kernel, for chrissakes. Why you would count embedded Linux installs and not Android is beyond me.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      and the underlying kernel is essentially invisible to the end user.

      Yes, that's a good thing. When I'm using Linux for digital painting, I don't give a damn about the kernel, so long as it keeps everything running smoothly, quickly, and stays out of my way. When I use my smartphone, If I'm thinking about the kernel as a user, there is a problem with the kernel.
      You could argue that Android isn't a success story for Linux for other reasons, but saying it's not a success story because the Linux kernel is doing what a kernel should do is stupid.

    9. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      "Have you got a 27B / 6 ?"

      No, but I just bought a desktop machine with 16GB (expandable to 64GB), it was not particularly difficult for me to find such a machine, and I am not particularly affluent (I make more than most of my mostly blue-collar neighbours in this suburb, true, but on the graph of what folks for my line of work are paid, my salary is not an outlying data point).

      Okay, okay, I had to get my wife to help me carry it home from the shop--3 cartons, two arms. But even so...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    10. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Come of think of it, my 3-y-o laptop has 6GB RAM, and I could expand it to 16 for a couple hundred bucks.

      I compile a DB server and tools on it regularly. Wouldn't bother trying to do that on my tablet or phone.

      Um. What were we talking about, again?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    11. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is that Linux and BSD contribute an insignificant amount to the success of the product. If that's the case, then why didn't Google and Apple create the entire OSes themselves, seeing how trivial you say it is.

    12. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by elfprince13 · · Score: 1

      Analogy doesn't quite work because Linux IS a kernel (the Linux userland is usually GNU, but you could put something else on top, like Android without a problem). The FreeBSD components in Darwin/iOS/OS X are userland, not kernel (which is Mach/XNU).

    13. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      It's a Linux kernel, but it's not a Linux platform. It's good for kernel development because they have all these big juicy Google brain cells hacking in the kernel. It's a total wash for Linux application developers, because Android might as well be iOS in terms of porting their software to a phone.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    14. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      And many of the embedded Linux platforms are any different.

      Since when did userland count for more than the kernel?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    15. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by caseih · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes but Linux is really just incidental. It might have been picked for cost, or stability, or openness, but it's irrelevant to Android and Android users, for all intents and purposes. Sure those of us that know how can install a posix userspace and get a Linux shell. But most people will never see beyond the apps, which are targeting a specific VM stack that could easily have been developed to run on a different kernel, either home-grown, or a commercial alternative like QNX. In fact we know this is true because there are ways of running Android apps on Blackberry and even MS Windows. So don't be too proud that Linux powers Android. Especially not until we can run Android on a stock Linux kernel. So far as I know Google still hasn't merged all their changes (some have been merged), so I consider Android's kernel a fork for now.

    16. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      So is KDE or GNOME the Linux platform? Is X or Wayland the Linux platform? It doesn't matter man. The kernel is there.

    17. Re: ANDROID != LINUX by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      Interestin. Let me check my terminalâ¦

      u0_a62@mako:/ $ uname -a
      Linux localhost 3.4.0-cyanogenmod-g72267ac #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Feb 21 03:49:35 PST 2014 armv7l GNU/Linux
      u0_a62@mako:/ $

      Looks like Android = Linux to me.

    18. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by PC_THE_GREAT · · Score: 1

      caseih, I'd say, you really do not know what you are speaking about.

      The OS = The Kernel.

      The Kernel = Linux

      Android runs on top of a Linux kernel to perform its system calls, so i'd say Android is just no more than a shell.


      You don't believe me? You don't agree with me? Doesn't matter doesn't change anything.

      Am not particular a fan of GPL but credit must be given when it is due. Am happy that Android actually has been released under a lesser restrictive license like Apache though! Way to go google!

      +PC

    19. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by adri · · Score: 1

      .. except that a large part of the kernel networking stuff (among other things) are also FreeBSD derived.

    20. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by elfprince13 · · Score: 2

      You're missing the point. Saying that a kernel is or isn't successful because it's distributed with a different userland than usual is (a) just wrong, and (b) a completely different sort of claim than that a particular software distribution is or isn't successful because various components have been integrated elsewhere.

    21. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Fri13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are so wrong.

      Linux kernel is a monolithic kernel what means Linux kernel is the complete operating system. There is no other software needed to add to have full operating system than just the Linux kernel.

      Same thing is with FreeBSD, OpenBSD etc what are all using a monolithic operating systems architecture, not the Server-Client operating systems architecture like XNU and NT, operating systems of OS X, iOS and Windows, Windows RT and Windows Phone.

      XNU operating system does have servers from FreeBSD, but the whole XNU operating system or most important part of it, the microkernel, is not from FreeBSD. The Apple toke network stack and filesystems functions from a FreeBSD and made them operate as servers instead modules and used them in XNU.

      Linux has conquered the world. It is used in most servers, most embedded systems and in most mobile devices from smartphones to now tablets. Linux operating system is most used operating system in the IT history by its wide usage purposes instead being just targeted to specific use (like only on embedded systems). Linux has proofen that monolithic operating system architecture is superior to server-client (aka microkernel) architecture in security, speed and stability. Because its open licensing and huge community, Linux hardware support and level is second to none. The Linux operating system is licensed under GPLv2 and it secures its openess (even that some would like to it be GPLv3 or BSD) and it truely was the most important decision what Linus Torvalds made, to use GPLv2 instead own or other license.

      Linux deserves the credit for being most used operating system. It has already passed the install base of Microsoft or Apple developed operating systems by two fold, thanks to mobile world. Thanks to Linux, we have truely a open operating system used in the world, what is requiring hardware and software developers to take Open Source seriously, even Microsoft admitting that Linux operating system is more widely used and Open Source isn't "a cancer" or threat to industry jobs.

      Every success what Android gets, is success for Linux as it is the operating system in Android. It isn't even directly success to Google either, because Android is developed by Open Handset Alliance (OHA) what is lead by Google. Every OHA member is free to improve Android and send patches. But Google makes sure that Android AOSP stay clean from proprietary code or functions what would benefit only a single authority.
      Many falsely believes that Google applications and services (gapps) belongs to Android, while they don't. Google applications framework and all applications are third party to Android like Samsung S-series software is for Android or Microsoft software for Android is third party. The difference is just with the Google that if you want to call your device as Android device, you need to be OHA member and then pre-install only the Google Play (not required to install Google Maps, Gmail or any other applications for Google services) and you are free then to install any alternative services for Google services, but you can not block device user from installing any other third party (including Google Maps, Google Search or Gmail) applications and make them as default instead your chosen ones.

      You are as well required to not modify Android API/ABI so that you don't have 100% Android compatibility. And here is again the other mistake what people make, as Hardware differences (display, resolution, CPU, GPU, amount of RAM, camera, flash, microphones, compass etc etc) are the one what you are free to design and use as OEM. And if Android application developer has designed their application to need hardware functions like front camera and rear camera flash, then if you have cheap Android device what is missing both, you can not see or install that application from Play store because your hardware doesn't fill the requirements the application developer has chosen to. It isn't fault of Android or it doesn't require application developer to test their software on

    22. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by caseih · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you deny that Android apps can run on an Android stack on QNX or Windows? Android is the environment: the whole stack, of which a major component is a virtual machine. The bottom of the pyramid is the Linux kernel, as you say, but I maintain it's not technically an essential part and could be replaced, with enough effort. I'm not sure how well BlueStacks or Windroy run at present, but they certainly run on a Windows kernel. And I'm not saying the kernel of Android is likely to change. Only that it could very well have been different.

      Yes you're right that by choosing Linux to be the kernel of Android, there have been benefits that flowed back into the community, though I do note that Android's kernel is still technically a fork of Linux, and hasn't yet been integrated into the mainline git repositories that I know of.

      Not everyone shares your narrow definition of "operating system." The definition I was taught in uni, which is shared by some random wikipedia editor, is that the Operating System is a collection of software that manages resources and provides services for a program to run on top of it. By this definition, Android *is* the OS, and happens to have a Linux kernel at its core. It's also the reason that Stallman insists on Linux distributions, "GNU/Linux." Also, many distros correctly call themselves "Operating Systems." Debian calls itself "the Universal Operating System" and comes with either a Linux kernel or a FreeBSD kernel.

    23. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say what?

      u0_axx@android:/ $ uname -a
      Linux localhost 3.4.5 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jan 24 10:34:07 CST 2014 armv71 GNU/Linux

    24. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Sun · · Score: 1

      While I agree that Android != Linux, I think your statements are somewhat over-broad.

      There is a full Posix userspace on Android. It is done via different libraries than the usual ones, so don't expect any GNU extensions to glibc and such, but posix is there completely. You will need to use a toolchain adapted to that environment, but the same holds true if you decide to go with uclibc.

      I'm not sure what you mean by the kernel being locked/limited. This is, when all is said and done, a Linux kernel, exposing all of the usual Linux user space APIs. There are some non-standard APIs as well, true, but I don't see how that is any problem. I have statically compiled a fairly comprehensive version of busybox, and everything worked. The only reason I did this statically was to avoid the toolchain problem mentioned above.

      Shachar

    25. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you deny that Android apps can run on an Android stack on QNX or Windows?

      I've also run windows programs on Linux using wine. Believe it or not if you are not using kernel resource but rather a userspace API and someone then transfers that userspace API to another kernel it can run on that!

      However I've yet to see an andriod phone using any kernel other than linux so I'd call it a win for linux as it would be technically possible to replace but remains in place.

    26. Re: ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Essay contest for your English claas?

      You are clearly a non native English speaker, and you did a great job, but many (not all) of the times you used the word 'what' should have been 'that'.

    27. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Yes but Linux is really just incidental.

      That's like saying that a lottery winner isn't a winner because it's incidental. That's completely irrelevant to the question whether Android devices run Linux: they do. They add some extra drivers, but hey, the Linux source tree is designed for people to add new drivers, isn't it?

      It might have been picked for cost, or stability, or openness

      Which means that Linux was compared to its competition and judged worthy in at least one of these areas. That's a good thing, isn't it?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    28. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Linux kernel is a monolithic kernel what means Linux kernel is the complete operating system. There is no other software needed to add to have full operating system than just the Linux kernel.

      Bollocks. At the very least you need a shell.

      Linux is a complete operating system kernel. It is not a complete operating system. If you have any doubts about this, perhaps you should look back at this obscure operating system called "Unix" that GNU/Linux is more or less a clone of. Back then the creators of Unix created some terms to define different components of the operating system, like, uh "Kernel", "User-land", "Shell", etc. If "Kernel" described "the operating system", then why invent the term in the first place? Why did they continue to use the word "Operating system" afterwards and why did they use it to describe "Unix" which included so much more than just the kernel?

      I know people are upset about this because RMS is a horrib... actually, I really don't know why you guys hate RMS, we really wouldn't have Ubuntu, CentOS, et al, without his work, but you hate him and I get that - but the "GNU/Linux" thing is entirely reasonable. What people have installed on their desktops is an operating system that includes both Linux and the GNU userland. Without the GNU userland you'd either have to build an operating system with a different userland (in which case you'd have Busybox/Linux, or BSD/Linux), or you'd have a brick.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    29. Re: ANDROID != LINUX by petman · · Score: 1

      You don't really need 16 MB to compile Android. If you stick to single thread compilation you can do it with only 8 MB or even less. It'll take ages but you'll get there eventually.

    30. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      You subscribe to the currently common delusion that an "OS" is a graphical shell and userland toys.

    31. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      It's the Linux kernel, for chrissakes. Why you would count embedded Linux installs and not Android is beyond me.

      Then why not count OS X as another *nix and really blow the doors off, well, Windows would be the only other OS left? Oh, right, because it's not open source, except it is. And, it's as open as Android seems to really be. Customized underpinnings and a GUI customized on top. You can do that with Darwin.

    32. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    33. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my the cognitive dissonance is strong with this one: he likes Linux but hates Android (or Google, or both) and can't fathom mixing the two together.

      So you get this sort of argument where Android somehow isn't "real Linux" despite most of the platform being open-source, sometimes with even more permissive licenses.

      I bet he wouldn't have a problem accepting Linux popularity in servers, despite the fact that a lot of the bigger ones are a lot more closed than Android - modifications to the kernel which aren't shared back, and tones of proprietary userspace software.

    34. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      could be replaced, with enough effort

      That's rich. Nice choice of words there.
      I bet you could also replace the Windows kernel with Linux "with enough effort".
      Or turn a car into a space shuttle, "with enough effort".
      Or move the great wall of China 10 meters to the left, "with enough effort".

    35. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I notice you say darwin rather than OSX

    36. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by paulpach · · Score: 1

      Don't believe.

      There is NO Posix userspace on Android. Posix kernel land is locked/limited.

      Why does it take 16 GB RAM to compile the Android tarball? That's some BEAUTIFUL community inclusion!

      You realize linux is _just_ a kernel right? There is roughly the same amount of linux in an android handset than in say an ubuntu pc.

      Whether you put some GNU components on top, Dalvik, or busybox, it is the exact same kernel: linux. In fact this is the reason why some people advocate calling most distributions GNU/Linux

    37. Re: ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now you're playing with it!

    38. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      It's a Linux kernel, but it's not a Linux platform.

      Sure it is - so is a Tivo.

      It just isn't a GNU/Linux platform. Linux is just a kernel that launches an init. You can make all kinds of systems on top of it. Most of them don't run X11 at all.

    39. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Sure those of us that know how can install a posix userspace and get a Linux shell.

      There is no such thing as a "linux shell." Linux is just an OS kernel, and any OS that uses it is running "linux."

      What you're really talking about is a POSIX userspace with X11, etc. That isn't Android, and it isn't Tivo, and it isn't 80% of all the other devices running Linux.

      Your typical Ubuntu distro / etc is really a small subset of the Linux world.

    40. Re: ANDROID != LINUX by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      Cyanogenmod.
      Are you countering an argument about a system using a mod of such system? I am sure replicant and cyanogenmod are more hack friendly.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    41. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by marcello_dl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gentlemen, to clear up the terminology confusion, I suggest to:
      - call the kernel "Linux"
      - call the kernel + GNU userland GNU/Linux
      - call the linux based Google's operating system Android/Linux

      The reason nobody else came up with this classification before is beyond me.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    42. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Celebrate Google's success with Android

      Android's success != Google's success when many of the tablets being sold (i.e. the very cheap ones) use no Google services.

    43. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Do you deny that Android apps can run on an Android stack on QNX or Windows?

      Not if the Android app uses the NDK and targets arm.....

      For instance Firefox doesn't (or at least when it first was released) support Android on x86.

    44. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by vilanye · · Score: 1

      That is not what monolithic means. The Linux kernel is just that, an operating system kernel. Nothing more. It is not a full OS by any rational definition.
      By itself the kernel is worthless.

    45. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      But in all cases, the kernel is still Linux. If I run nothing but Cygwin userland on Windows, I'm still running Windows.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    46. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I deny that. One of the nice things about porting software to Android is that you can pack up a slightly modified binary for "desktop Linux" (with modifications to pass touch input/display output through a different channel) along with glibc and other things, give it a shim layer in Java to pass events and graphics and it will run nicely. We ship an Android application like this.

      Could this Android app run on QNX or Windows? Not without a Linux kernel.

    47. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most POSIX APIs are actually available. I've spent a lot of time compiling various libs for Android and 90 % of them compiled nicely.

    48. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The definition rests on the fact that the practicality of the operating system is dependent solely on its ability to run the applications targeted for it and in the case of Android the kernel could be Linux or BSD or XNU or Mach and so long as the Android layer is there the applications will still run just fine. Android applications are not targeted to specifically exploit the Linux kernel so whatever definition of "operating system" you want to use you should know that the only thing that matters is its ability to run those applications.

      So in practical terms the Android "operating system" is the Dalvik VM, Android userland and application platform, whether the kernel is linux or not makes no difference.

    49. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Zaatxe · · Score: 1

      There is NO Posix userspace on Android.

      "Why don't you write it yourself?"
      (That's the answer I used to get in Linux forums when asking about a specific driver or piece of software I couldn't find.)

      --
      So say we all
    50. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Gentlemen, to clear up the terminology confusion, I suggest to: - call the kernel "Linux" - call the kernel + GNU userland GNU/Linux - call the linux based Google's operating system Android/Linux

      The reason nobody else came up with this classification before is beyond me.

      And it's this splintering and infighting that really makes nobody care and was really the point of my post above. The thing that made open source GNU fly was the open source kernel called Linux. But, Linux isn't much without user land (whether GNU or not), no OS kernel is. From what I can tell the AOSP is a software stack on top of a Linux kernel, so not "purest" GNU/Linux and a beast of its own. So, what's more important depends on your point of view. If you're a Linux kernel dev you might want to accentuate how the kernel is there and the use in non-GNU implementations count as Linux installs. If you're an Android dev inside Google you may downplay the kernel and care more about your stack penetration in the market, knowing the kernel underneath does not matter much. Windows user land runs atop a Linux kernel in Wine. Mac OS X has run on mach PPC kernel and ported to both Intel and a portion to ARM. I am sure if someone had the budget both Windows and Mac OS X user lands could be ported to a full POSIX, Linux kernel Operating System. Who knows, they may all be based on an open source kernel in the future. Why reinvent the wheel if everyone can chip in and all build, use and improve a common core. Being pedantic on this point of is it or is it not Linux at this stage in Linux's history is a bit counterproductive. I'd say claim it while you can.

    51. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Meski · · Score: 1

      Don't believe.

      There is NO Posix userspace on Android. Posix kernel land is locked/limited.

      Why does it take 16 GB RAM to compile the Android tarball? That's some BEAUTIFUL community inclusion!

      Are there dev machines that have less than 16GB? Curious, is all.

    52. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Except that DarwinOS isn't MacOS. You can't run MacOS applications on it.

      AOSP is actually Android -- it runs Android applications. Yes, you will need to install the Google Play Library stuff to run many applications.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    53. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by hazydave · · Score: 1

      The Android API/Java classes are properly termed "middleware", or alternately, an application framework (that's the term Google uses). And yes, it's a fairly portable application framework, which has been ported to run over QNX (Blackberry) and Windows (Bluestacks). You need Linux for anything written under the NDK, which is apparently less than 20% of the Android applications released.

      The Android kernel was originally a fork of Linux, but it was merged back officially in Linux 3.3 I believe. Just that has made Linux a better platform for mobile devices. No to mention other mobile environments, like FirefoxOS, helping themselves to bits and pieces of Android as they see fit.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    54. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by baoxiaotian · · Score: 1

      They need to talk about with associates clearly comprehend their own strengths and weaknesses, and to cooperate D3 Gold with others. more individuals engaged in the encounter is the need to cope with contingencies, rather than randomly shooting everywhere in the encounter to others.

    55. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by David+Jao · · Score: 1
      I agree, OS X is a unix, as much as Android is Linux. There are still some differences between the two; as pointed out in another reply, you can install Google Play Services on top of an AOSP-built Android, but there is no way to install the OS X UI on top of an open-source build of Darwin.

      However, if you compare iOS and Android, which is the proper comparison, then there is one other major important difference: Lots of Android hardware is capable of running open-source Android builds, but there is no iOS hardware at all that can run open-source builds of Darwin. I don't consider iOS "open" if you can't run it on any actual hardware.

    56. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Right, but apps you write on your Tivo can't run on a GNU/Linux installation or an Android installation. You have three platforms now. The API is the platform, and Tivo has the Tivo API, Android has its own toolset and libraries, and X11 is a third.

      All of them will probably support very basic command-line software with just a recompile, but if you're coding a finished app with a UI and the sort of interaction with high-level services users expect, you're going to be writing three different apps.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    57. Re:ANDROID != LINUX by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      You have three platforms now. The API is the platform, and Tivo has the Tivo API, Android has its own toolset and libraries, and X11 is a third.

      If you want to define the word "platform" that way then sure, there are three platforms. None of them are linux platforms in that case, because you're defining the platform as the presence of some kind of non-Linux API (X11, etc). In fact, the software designed to run on X11 would probably be easier to run on FreeBSD than on Android, and that isn't Linux at all.

      Linux is a kernel. It has an API - it is called the system call interface. You can target it with software if you so desire, though usually this is only done directly for fairly low-level stuff.

  9. Apple outsold next four tablet makers combined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In 2013:

    http://9to5mac.com/2014/03/03/ipads-were-the-biggest-selling-tablets-last-year-despite-falling-market-share/

    1. Re:Apple outsold next four tablet makers combined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, they have a monopoly on iOS devices, anyone can make an Android device.
      That there are so many android manufacturers is indicative of commoditisation which is useful for the consumer (ie a healthy market place)

  10. And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by noh8rz10 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who is making all these tablets? Here's the rough breakdown of 2013 unit volume from Gartner for worldwide:
    * Apple 36%
    * Samsung 19%
    * ASUS 6%
    * Amazon 5%
    * Lenovo 3%
    * All others 31%

    the first notable thing is that Apple sells more than Samsung, Asus, Amazon, and Lenovo combined. The second notable thing, who is the "all others"? All sort of white-label chinese makers? Who is buying these? And can you say that these are truly Android tablets if they have some sort of modified android 2.3?

    Here are the categories that I see in this market:

    * iOS
    * "Premium" Android. The Galaxy Tabs, the Nexus tablets, etc. Sold in US, EU, etc. The ones we are familiar with
    * Kindle
    * MS Surface
    * white label tablets. Presumably built and sold in China, elsewhere.

    We need to recognize that premium android might as well be a different OS than white label android. The apps will be different, the languages will be different, the monetization will be different, the fragmentation will be different. For all intensive purposes premium android is as removed from white label android as it is from kindle.

    1. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by SeaFox · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The second notable thing, who is the "all others"? All sort of white-label chinese makers? Who is buying these?

      Brands like Haier, Eviant, etc Yes. White label Chinese makers for the most part.

      The people buying them a schmucks who still watch QVC/HSN and think they're getting a good deal when they could do better, with the same convenience, buy turning on their computer and shopping online.

      They should adjust those numbers for the devices that are returned to the manufacture for hardware issues, because I can tell you from professional experience these "other" tablets are junk.

    2. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      * white label tablets. Presumably built and sold in China, elsewhere.

      White label tablets are sold in China, but also everywhere else. Rebranded as Aldi / Staples / Wal-Mart or what have you.

      We need to recognize that premium android might as well be a different OS than white label android. The apps will be different, the languages will be different, the monetization will be different, the fragmentation will be different.

      What are you talking about? I have a white-box Chinese Android tablet. It came with Android 4.2, gmail, Play store, google maps, etc. All of the no-name (Aldi Branded / Walmart / etc) tablets I've seen are the same.

      For all intensive purposes premium android is as removed from white label android as it is from kindle.

      Totally incorrect. The cheaper manufacturers actually provide a better android experience as they're using 'pure' android rather than putting shitty touch-wiz / sense style overlays & attempting to sign you up for a million stupid Samsung / etc services.

      Oh - and you say "for all intents and purposes". Think about it. Intensive purposes makes no sense in the context this phrase is typically used in.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    3. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So yes, basically Apple isn't the majority, but still the overwhelming leader. I'd really like to see the breakdown of profit by manufacturer. I'd wager that even though Apple only has 36% of the devices, they have 80% of the profit.

    4. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by seyyah · · Score: 2

      For all intensive purposes premium android is as removed from white label android as it is from kindle.

      A link for you: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki...

    5. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Apple sells more than Samsung, Asus, Amazon, and Lenovo combined.

      A rational person would regard the latter as a "healthy, diverse market".

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    6. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seconded. Every point in the OPs post was bullshit. If he/she thinks intensive purposes in computing have anything to do with tablets maybe he/she should join a different forum.

    7. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by melchoir55 · · Score: 2

      What on earth is "premium android"? Do you mean "custom ROM"? Anyone can install a custom ROM on just about any android device. There is no appreciable software difference between a knockoff tablet maker and samsung. If anything, knockoff tablets tend to run better android mods than samsung devices. Of course this hardly matters since anyone can customize the OS however they like, or install an entirely different flavor of android.

      The main difference is in the raw power of the hardware. I realize the power of the hardware isn't something apple people think about... but it is one side of two coins. Software and Hardware make a tablet. Every android user has access to the same software. Better hardware costs more money. Every apple user has access to the same software, and the same hardware.

      You're complaining that Android is cheating by inflating its numbers. You are blind to the point that this is one of the very strengths of android. It is an open platform which anyone can employ. As such, a lot of people tend to employ it. To say Apple has less market share than android is surely true. Further, it is not a trivial thing to say. Apple once dominated the tablet and smartphone market when compared to Android. Now they are falling behind. The reason they are falling behind is the same reason they fell behind in the 90s. They sell closed, proprietary tech. This philosophy has been largely abandoned by the market in the 2000s because it has a lot of disadvantages to the consumer, which means the consumer eventually stops buying it.

      Apple is going to lose relevance in the USA over the next 5 years and gain relevance oversees (though not at an equal rate). I'm betting that apple is going to start seeing a drop in revenue 5 years from now after revenue growth slowly peters out. They could avoid it, but they won't. Their philosophy doesn't allow it. When I say I'm betting this will happen, I mean it in the strongest possible sense.

      10 years from now apple will be right back where it was in 1995. Clueless executives, inferior and overpriced product, and a market no longer willing to buy it because it is chic.

    8. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      the first notable thing is that Apple sells more than Samsung, Asus, Amazon, and Lenovo combined

      OMFG you found the truth! seriously, TFA is about OS market share not manufacturer. so?

      And can you say that these are truly Android tablets if they have some sort of modified android 2.3?

      yes. what else would they be? and BTW, there are almost zero tablets that ever ran android 2.3, and android 3.x has almost no percent of the market according to the stats, so that means they are running 4.x.

    9. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by whisper_jeff · · Score: 4, Interesting

      White label tablets also include TV dongles that happen to run Android - for some reason, they track as "tablet". Presumably it's the most accurate of the choices available. Despite it not being a tablet, at all.

      And there are a LOT of these TV dongles out there. For example, do a search on Amazon or eBay for "android tv dongle".

      Skewed and distorted numbers.

    10. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What are you smoking? Those shitty tablets have one thing in common and that is a shitty screen. The touch screen is by far the most important part of the tablet experience and a shitty screen makes for one bad experience. That's the first thing I noticed when I picked up the Samsung Galaxy tablet. A screen to rival the iPad. That was the beginning of actual competition. Before that it didn't exist. I see those crap tablets on Craigslist all the time at giveaway prices.

    11. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      Intensive purposes makes no sense in the context this phrase is typically used in

      Or indeed any.

    12. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Except, we are talking about a software ecosystem, not which company is reaping the highest profit from sales of their tablet to the wealthy minority who can afford it. All the Android hardware runs on a common software platform so can be summed up to compare to the smaller iOS market segment.

      Apple is going down the same path they were in the 80's. They refused to compare themselves to the PC clone market, and instead insisted on only being compared to a few of the most expensive brands (Compaq and IBM mostly.)

      They can kid themselves, maybe even kid their investors for awhile. They can't fool the market. It's only a matter of time.

    13. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by jon3k · · Score: 2

      It's garbage $100 tablets, or less. Resistive and very low resolution screens with sub 1Ghz processors. Things that are given away as gifts or used once and never touched again. Just cheap shit being cranked out in China.

    14. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      It's "for all intents and purposes", shillboy.

      The rest your post is just as wrong.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    15. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the first notable thing is that Apple sells more than Samsung, Asus, Amazon, and Lenovo combined. The second notable thing, who is the "all others"? All sort of white-label chinese makers? Who is buying these?

      It would be a bunch of No-Name tablet makers: Asus, Acer, LG, Sony, HTC, Chromium, Toshiba, Panasonic... NEVER heard of any of em. Must be Chinese.

    16. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Jeez, I made a lot of stupid typos on that post. That's what happens when you type by muscle memory and are distracted.

    17. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      hate much?

    18. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by noh8rz10 · · Score: 2

      everything you say is contradicted elsewhere on this thread. All reports say that these white box tablets are cheap, with bad screens and slow guts. that does NOT provide a "better" android experience.

      The point is that there's a good size portion of the android market that are crap and junk.

    19. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by noh8rz10 · · Score: 0

      if we're talking about a software ecosystem then iOS is the dominant software ecosystem if you want to buy quality apps or if you are a developer looking for benjamins.

    20. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Not that you need worry about. I save that for worthy adversaries.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    21. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God I love the absurd and nonsense excuses you Apple fanboys come up with when your pet brand is shown to be in decline.

      I mean, TV dongles, really, whatever next? the amount and market for them is so small they'd barely even make up a rounding error of a percentage. That's before you factor in the point that Gartner wouldn't have any reason to include TV dongles in their tablet numbers (your nonsense about "track as" is based on what, some nonsense about user agent string or something? Certainly Gartner doesn't "track" them as tablets so stop talking shit.

      You know when Apple is in decline in an area, because the fanboys just start talking complete nonsense. This is the exact same sort of argument we saw with the iPhone and it didn't change anything, Apple still slipped back to a relatively minor player with a relatively pathetic 13% marketshare compared to say, Samsung's 27%.

      You can make shit up all you want, it wont change the fact that Apple's marketshare of the tablet market is in drastic decline.

    22. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What are you smoking? Those shitty tablets have one thing in common and that is a shitty screen."

      Given that I own one of several cheap white label chinese tablet with the exact same retina display as can be found in Apples tablets I
      have to ask you the same question.

      "That's the first thing I noticed when I picked up the Samsung Galaxy tablet. A screen to rival the iPad."

      As for the screen on 'galaxy tablets' this is an incomprehensible comment since these have all had crappy
      low res screens in the past. The Tab branded ones still do. The Note tablets have only recently been given decent
      specs.

      So what the hell are you going on about?

    23. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people buying them a schmucks

      Or maybe they don't live in a first world country and have very little money.
      Like most of the worlds population.

    24. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      everything you say is contradicted elsewhere on this thread. All reports say that these white box tablets are cheap, with bad screens and slow guts. that does NOT provide a "better" android experience.

      The point is that there's a good size portion of the android market that are crap and junk.

      Probably better than no experience. A lot of people in the world are very poor compared to people in the first world.

    25. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's garbage $100 tablets, or less. Resistive and very low resolution screens with sub 1Ghz processors. Things that are given away as gifts or used once and never touched again. Just cheap shit being cranked out in China.

      Maybe by you who have a lot of other digital devices

    26. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if we're talking about a software ecosystem then iOS is the dominant software ecosystem if you want to buy quality apps or if you are a developer looking for benjamins.

      What are you smoking? There's LOTS more quality apps available on MS Windows than iOS. Also for GNU/Linux although you may well have to install a GNU userspace. Not sure about Android itself but I suspect it may well outshine iOS as well.

    27. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      We need to recognize that premium android might as well be a different OS than white label android. The apps will be different, the languages will be different, the monetization will be different, the fragmentation will be different.

      What are you talking about? I have a white-box Chinese Android tablet. It came with Android 4.2, gmail, Play store, google maps, etc. All of the no-name (Aldi Branded / Walmart / etc) tablets I've seen are the same.

      An easy way to tell when someone doesn't know what they fuck they're talking about is if they mention the word "fragmentation". As an Android developer I can say that I barely worry about different devices with different capabilities. For the large majority of apps it doesn't matter. Nearly all my bugs are because I've done something wrong, not because a particular device is doing something wrong.

    28. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Who pissed in your cornflakes?

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    29. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Threni · · Score: 1

      > All sort of white-label chinese makers? Who is buying these?

      Millions of Chinese, Thai, Indian, African people.

      > And can you say
      > that these are truly Android tablets if they have some sort of modified android 2.3?

      I'm running modified Android 4.2.2 - Cyanogenmod - on my phone. So, yes, I'm running and developing Android on it.

    30. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not the resolution so much as how when you tap the screen it works. I've played with a bunch of the cheapo tablets and you tap, then tap, then tap and maybe something happens. I don't like it when a tablet ignores input.

    31. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they just realized that it isn't worth spending £500 on a tablet to give to the kids for watching cartoons and playing Angry Birds on long car journeys. Cheap Android tablets are perfectly good for a lot of what people use tablets for.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    32. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Resistive

      Bullshit.

      sub 1Ghz processors

      More bullshit.

      Even $60 craplets nowadays have capacitive touch and a 1.2GHz Cortex-A8.

    33. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all intensive purposes premium android is as removed from white label android as it is from kindle.

      No, the correct phrase is "In tents of porpoises".

    34. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's "for all intents and purposes", shillboy.

      The rest your post is just as wrong.

      No, it's "in tents of porpoises". As you wouldn't want to be in a tent with a porpoise.

    35. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by konohitowa · · Score: 1

      Leave him alone. He's mindless. It's not his fault.

    36. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not like Apple's "expensive Shit being cranked out of China due to apple's large margins" stuff right?

    37. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Rayonic · · Score: 1

      The second notable thing, who is the "all others"? All sort of white-label chinese makers?

      Samsung, Sony, HTC, HP... anyone below Lenovo's 3% of the market. "All others" gives the impression of nameless, faceless horde but that's usually not the case.

    38. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple *DOES NOT BUILD ANYTHING* - they pay one of your white-label chinese manufacturers to build it for them as they are too incompetent to build it themselves.

      While Samsung, ASUS, Lenovo all build their own.

      Thanks for playing.

      So really it's

      Foxcon - 36%
      Samsung - 19%
      ASUS - 6%

      Apple - 0% - not an equipment manufacturer so cannot have any sales.

    39. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I thought it was "for all intensive porpoises", though I don't understand how dolphins are involved.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    40. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      right, but it has to be a faceless horde. 31% of the total. if you have a long tail of 2%, 1%, 0.5% share, that's going to be a lot of faceless horde. They should separate into brand name tablets and white label tablets.

    41. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by knarf · · Score: 1

      The hardware on many of these tablets can be made to do much more than the often mediocre firmware provided by the OEM enables it to. I ported Android Cyanogenmod 10 (Android 4.1.2) to a RK3066-powered tablet which turned the thing from a sometimes sluggish, rather middle of the road performer to something which outperforms my parents' Galaxy Tab 3 (the 10.1", Intel Atom-powered version). I did the same with one of the earlier Chinese tablets (Ainol Novo 8) with similar results. For the price of a 'branded' Android tablet you can usually get two or three of these, if not more. Given the right attitude they can be made to perform like one of the branded tablets, with the added advantage of the usually larger range of interfaces and expansion options on the 'cheap' tablets.

      The conclusion is simple: if you want a guaranteed 'out of the box' experience these cheaper tablets are hit and miss. If you are willing to do some work you can do really well with some of them.

      --
      --frank[at]unternet.org
    42. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not so. Its meaning is tightly focused purposes. If you buy a tablet for the purpose of running one app, and using the heck out of the app, then buying it war for an intensive purpose.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    43. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      You're retrofitting the phrase to a possible meaning, when in fact there never was such a phrase, just a mishearing of a different one. And anyway its "for all intensive purposes". What does that even mean? It might mean something, but it sounds awkward and, due to its common misuse, makes the speaker sound ignorant. Anyone with a desire to not make themselves sound like a fool will give this one a very wide berth.

    44. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sales figures from private sellers in Hong Kong are unlikely to have been counted in Gartner's study, and you know this...

      Keep clutching at those straws, though!

    45. Re:And yet apple sells more tablets than anybody by hazydave · · Score: 1

      > Apple *DOES NOT BUILD ANYTHING* - they pay one of your white-label chinese manufacturers to build it for them as they are too incompetent to build it themselves.

      Hon Hai Precision Industry Company, aka Foxconn. Of course, Foxconn makes about 40% of all of the consumer electronics on the planet. They also made some of Amazon's Kindle tablets.

      > While Samsung, ASUS, Lenovo all build their own.

      Samsung and Lenovo also make a large percentage of the components that go into their in-house manufacturered products; it's about 70% on the average Samsung tablet.

      ASUSTeK Computer started out as a contract manufacturer for PCs, but they sold off some of their manufacturing business in 2008. The spinoff companies are Pegatron (PCs and components) and Unihan (casework and other mechanicals). They still do in-house manufacturing in several countries.

      Of course, most of the other tablet makers also outsource their manufacturing or, like Google, the whole schmeggie.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  11. Well DUH by nurb432 · · Score: 2

    There is one manufacturer of iOS tablets, there are butt loads of android tablet makers.

    That fact alone tips the balance. And like the story says, lots of them are *cheap*, in a market where apple would never tread.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Well DUH by hazydave · · Score: 1

      > There is one manufacturer of iOS tablets
      Hon Hai Precision Industry (Foxconn)

      > butt loads of android tablet makers.
      Hon Hai Precision Industry (Foxconn)
      Compal
      Quanta
      Wistron
      Pegatron
      Inventec
      Flextronics
      Elitegroup
      etc.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  12. Number of iPad models? by unimacs · · Score: 1

    Is Apple selling two or three?

    Anyway, Apple has 36% of the market while selling only a few models.

    I think they'll survive for awhile.

  13. I guess this means... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that it's time for another law suit.

  14. Questionable Numbers by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sure, if you go with Gartner's numbers which undercut Apple's reported sales figures (you know, numbers that undergo SEC scrutiny for accuracy) by almost 4 million units while also adding in Android "white box" units that include TV dongles which track as tablets despite being not-at-all tablets while also clouding the results by reporting Apple's sales-to-end-users numbers with Android's shipped-into-channel numbers. So, yeah, if you cut Apple's numbers and artificially inflate Android's numbers, yes, Android is beating iOS in the tablet space.

    And now you may mod me troll while claiming I'm just an Apple fanboy for speaking the truth.

    I have such fond memories of when this site wasn't such a blatant tool of spin doctors for certain industry interests...

    1. Re:Questionable Numbers by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have such fond memories of when this site wasn't such a blatant tool of spin doctors for certain industry interests...

      Meh. Slashdot stories have long reported Gartner's dodgy numbers at face value, even though pretty much every single such story contains multiple comments pointing out how absurd those numbers are.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:Questionable Numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, no. The SEC doesn't scrutinize the numbers in filings for accuracy, that would be impossible. They enforce penalties if the information in the filings is wrong.

    3. Re:Questionable Numbers by whisper_jeff · · Score: 2

      I would equate enforcing penalties with the numbers being under scrutiny but, sure, if you want to get picky about details like that - Apple's numbers are actionable if they are wrong while Gartner's are apparently pulled out of thin air. My point remains the same.

    4. Re:Questionable Numbers by swillden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meh. Even if you're right it doesn't matter, because while the details of the current positions may be fuzzy, the trend is crystal clear.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:Questionable Numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are an apple fanboy. There are lot of countries outside Murica.
      From my countries prespective i would not beleive who buys Apple stuff when everywhere i see is just Android.
      Think different!

    6. Re:Questionable Numbers by drolli · · Score: 1

      How much would correcting for this change this changhe the numbers?

    7. Re:Questionable Numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would equate enforcing penalties with the numbers being under scrutiny

      Its very different as being under scrutiny would automatically find errors (assuming it was done competently).
      Enforcing penalties if wrong requires that the SEC knows that somethings probably wrong and then they have to be able to legally investigate.
      Its not just a theoretical thing as, for instance, pyramid schemes are a lot easier when not under scrutiny and they can take the money and run before SEC wakes up.

  15. I love my Android tablet by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    I love my Android tablet, it does 90 percent of what I used to need a laptop to do. The only minor niggle is no Flash support. I get why Google doesn't want to support it but so many sites still use it.

    That and Chromecast is great for streaming Netflix content on TV.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:I love my Android tablet by brantondaveperson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On both iOS and Android you can use something called Puffin browser. Five minutes using that thing, and you realise why no mobile OS has any interest in supporting Flash. But if you really need Flash, it's there.

    2. Re:I love my Android tablet by linuxci · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's Adobe that dropped support for Flash on Android.

      In the end it's a good thing. It's a massive battery drain and if both iOS and Android don't support it then there"s less use of it for needless purposes.

    3. Re:I love my Android tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no problem with Flash on my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 in Dolphin.

      Google is your friend...

    4. Re:I love my Android tablet by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      It's a massive battery

      negative, at least on android, the flash process is nice and quiet and the browser is in the background / screen is off. maybe you are into leaving your phone screen locked on and showing a flash page. in that case, you are right.

    5. Re:I love my Android tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BS.

      Flash's core problem is that it's used for advertisements in a busy-wait loop. So every time you come across a page with flash on it, regardless of it being a static ad or some frigging streaming video ad, the CPU must spin up to 100% until the page is navigated away. Now multiply this by the 10 or so ads you see on newspaper sites and you will see why killing flash on mobile devices was a good thing.

      Remember that the devices we have now, are about the same power as 15 year old desktops. Yet desktop flash can drag even a top of the line 8-core E3 to it's knees. There is a reason why flash is horrible, and it's because Adobe turned it into a generic video player, and even worse generic 3D game engine, ignoring the plights of those who wished to animate with it which is what it was originally designed to do.

      Now you can't even play a 10 year old flash file without losing frames. Oh the irony of having to convert flash animation into mp4 to play it on flash-video sites.

    6. Re:I love my Android tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I have Flash on my Samsung Tab 10.2. Found and installed an APK for it with minimal trouble.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    7. Re:I love my Android tablet by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Didn't they do that because the Steve said that no iDevices would ever be allowed to run it?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:I love my Android tablet by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      Dear god, Adobe Flash ran remotely in the cloud... terrifying!

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    9. Re:I love my Android tablet by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Flash's core problem is that it's used for advertisements in a busy-wait loop

      right, the problem's with the code, not flash. you can put any system in a busy wait loop and watch it burn up the CPU.

      Now multiply this by the 10 or so

      if you put 10x animations on a website using any technology it's going to burn your CPU.

       

      Now you can't even play a 10 year old flash file without losing frames.

      flash video woks fine any modern mobile devices and all computers. it's still used by many large scale sites.

    10. Re:I love my Android tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adobe dropped support for flash on mobile, period.

      The whole point of flash, from Adobe's perspective, was to sell web development tools that let one web designer deliver a flashy site that would otherwise take 2-3 Javascript programmers the same amount of time. In theory, anyway. That's one reason why support of the flash plug-in, particularly on mobile, has been shaky... it's not the product. And now, newer versions of the Adobe tools can do the same things in HTML5. There's still a pretty huge installed base of Flash sites on the reguilar web, but not so much on the mobile sites. So Adobe decided it was more trouble than it was worth on mobile.

  16. It is. by Sable+Drakon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Android IS an open platform. It's entirely up to you if you want to be locked into Google's ecosystem or not. Install Cyanogenmod or another third-party ROM, then look as there's no GApps or Google all over your phone. But remember it's now up to you to sideload a new app store and get the APKs to what non-Google services you use.

    --
    The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
  17. White label stuff is usually vanilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Most of the "white label" tablets floating around are running uncustomized Android 4.0+. Customizing software costs money, so they just put vanillia Android on most of them.

    1. Re:White label stuff is usually vanilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, usually 4.0, 4.1 or 4.4
      4.2 and 4.3 are a bit too heavy.

    2. Re:White label stuff is usually vanilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not put it into software? They sure as hell don't put it into the hardware. Once you get past the top three selling Android tablet brands you're pretty much in a quagmire of garbage tablets that aren't worth what Amazon charges to ship them.
       
      While everyone is rejoicing that Android is outselling iOS and MS just remember that every one of these cheap shit tablets is turning someone against Android.

    3. Re:White label stuff is usually vanilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless they happen to live in rural India and this is the only such device they can get of course.

  18. iOS is still better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that number shipped or sold? Either way though Android is on so much junk, its probably not being used anymore. iOS has the most web traffic and was rated number 1 at mobile world congress this year.

    1. Re:iOS is still better by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      iOS has the most web traffic and was rated number 1 at mobile world congress this year.

      It's fun to watch those lines of defense fall one by one, isn't it?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:iOS is still better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      i never get why the masses are always thrilled to see mediocrity beat down quality. windows was shit in the 90s and android will be shit in the 10s, i don't see how having the majority of the worlds computing devices be junk is anything to be smug about really.

    3. Re:iOS is still better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd argue Android is superior to iOS anyway but even if it wasn't why should mobile computing be limited to some rich elitists who are using devices most of the world can't afford?

    4. Re:iOS is still better by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Um, why? I'm very happy with my iPhone. (I presumably would be very happy with a high-end Android as well.) There's plenty of room in this market for various OSes, since the network effects are far smaller than with PCs, and a good app will wind up on Android, iOS, and any other market that gets significant.

      I think we can have a stable environment with Android as numerically dominant, iOS having a good position at the high end, and a few other OSes. Niche applications, like eInk readers, will be Android variants for the same reason Linux gets into all sort of embedded applications: it's cheap, easily modifiable, doesn't need license negotiations, and it's good.

      I really don't understand the fandom here. Get the phone/tablet you like, and expect continued support and improved successors. You don't need the competition to your favorite to fail; in fact, that's bad since it removes some competitive pressure. Yet I've seen fanbois for iOS, Android, and even Windows Phone (which has to be like being a Mets fan in 1962).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re:iOS is still better by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      As everybody knows, Linux is superior to FreeBSD :)

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    6. Re:iOS is still better by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I really don't understand the fandom here.

      Easy: closed garden = please die now.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re:iOS is still better by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I assume that you're similarly disdainful for anybody who uses a game console or handheld? A standard router?

      I just read a report that claimed that 97% of mobile device malware was Android, and approximately none of it was from the Google Play store. It would appear that the walled garden is very effective in reducing malware. If you'd never use a smartphone you can't easily program, fine. Wanting everybody who prefers a walled garden over malware to die is fanaticism.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    8. Re:iOS is still better by tepples · · Score: 1

      i never get why the masses are always thrilled to see mediocrity beat down quality.

      Perhaps we're just thrilled to see freedom to tinker beat down lockdown.

  19. sales != use by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    I would pretty much take it for granted that close to all of those low cost crap tablets are in desk drawers by now. I myslef bought chromebook at an irresistable price to try it. Yes it stinks.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:sales != use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they bought them because they are on low incomes I suspect not as they may well not have better alternatives lying around

    2. Re:sales != use by Trogre · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? I use two of my no-name tablets on a daily basis. Then again, many appliance stores over here now stock such items so one doesn't have to visit chinese websites to get them. These days about a third of the kids at local schools have one.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  20. Why do we listen to Gartner? by dottrap · · Score: 3, Informative

    Gartner has a terrible track record. If you see any article citing Gartner statistics or predictions, you are best served by ignoring and moving along.

    http://www.zdnet.com/why-does-...
    http://seekingalpha.com/instab...

  21. It isn't. by dottrap · · Score: 2

    From Wikipedia:
    "OHA [Open Handset Alliance] members are contractually forbidden from producing devices that are based off incompatible forks of Android."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...

    This has a chilling effect on hiring manufacturers to build your actual device when most of them are already tied to OHA.

    This is a perverse definition of "open".

    1. Re:It isn't. by Sable+Drakon · · Score: 1

      This still doesn't prevent the individual user from re-flashing their phone to a version deviod of Google's software. Remember that custom ROMs by default are legally prohibited from including GApps by Google. It still means that if an end-user wanted to take it upon themselves, they can do it. It's just a whole lot more convienient to use GApps.

      --
      The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
    2. Re:It isn't. by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      I don't get it. You people say you don't want spyware, i.e. the Google Apps, on your phone. THEN you complain that Cyanogenmod doesn't come with Google Apps. Make up your mind already.

    3. Re:It isn't. by Sable+Drakon · · Score: 2

      I'm not one of those people. There are more reasons than spyware to reflash to CM.. Like running TouchWiz. My personal case is owning a GS3, I reflashed to CM and installed GApps because I prefer Google's Services and the ease of use that an AOSP-based ROM provides.

      --
      The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
    4. Re:It isn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you don't have to be a member of the OHA to use oe develop Andriod (ok AOSP). Maybe to be involved in developing 'googles' Andriod but you can take it and make a different version today if you so desire. Thats what makes it open source

    5. Re:It isn't. by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      This is a perverse argument for claiming that something isn't open.

      Android is open. Period. The fact Google creates massive incentives to manufacturers to use proprietary middleware on Android is neither here nor there. You might just as well argue that the PC architecture isn't open, because Microsoft creates incentives for PC manufacturers to install Windows.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  22. Gartner can't add by david.emery · · Score: 5, Informative

    From http://appleinsider.com/articl...
    "The most glaring inconsistency is a disconnect between Gartner's 70.4 million iPad sales and Apple's self-reported 74 million unit sales for 2013. From the first quarter — Apple's second fiscal quarter — to the fourth, the company reported iPad sales of 19.5 million, 14.6 million, 14.1 million and 26 million, respectively. The total: 74.2 million iPads sold during 2013. "

    Note these numbers are reported by Apple on SEC filings, not on press releases.

  23. Wah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wah! Ram is cheap.

    Build your own tarball and add your own userspace to it.

  24. thats funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ive been using computers for 27+ years and have never owned apple anything until my employer got me an iphone5s. Im never using android ever again. It is the biggest piece of shit OS I have ever used in a modern device.

    1. Re:thats funny by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I have a employer provided iPhone, needed apps costing $$ to be useful. my android phone I've bulked up with quality freeware, it does more.

    2. Re:thats funny by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I've been using computers for 35 years, and I'll be going to prison before I let myself get locked up in Apple's walled garden. I'd have more freedom that way.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:thats funny by kenh · · Score: 1

      Can you replace your iPhone with it's paid apps with your android device and it's free apps? Doing more doesn't mean it can do the same thing. Also, just because your employer choose to with paid apps on the iOS device, doesn't mean there aren't suitable free apps for your iOS device.

      Do you use your iOS devices in front of clients? Your employer may have spent money on your iPhone to improve your image in front of clients.

      --
      Ken
    4. Re:thats funny by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      no I have to look like a dweeb in front on clients with two different phones

      the iphone does do one thing the android can't, tries to sell me Apple Store crap

  25. only if you're a lazy git by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Informative

    you can add Debian and its ports to Android

    quit your whining, you pansy

    1. Re:only if you're a lazy git by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried building Android, though? He's got a point. I couldn't even fetch the repo due to the shitty tools used. You need a massive PC on a massive connection to even participate. It's definitely targeted at corporate users and not at hobbyists. This is not a surprise, but it's still a good reason to play in another sandbox.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:only if you're a lazy git by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried building Android, though? He's got a point. I couldn't even fetch the repo due to the shitty tools used. You need a massive PC on a massive connection to even participate. It's definitely targeted at corporate users and not at hobbyists. This is not a surprise, but it's still a good reason to play in another sandbox.

      Plus, being able to run something in a chroot isn't really saying much - you can do that in any OS that has a POSIX kernel. Debian in a chroot doesn't really get you much outside of the chroot.

      The android build tools can be painful to work with. The biggest issue I've had with it is that it is almost impossible to check out the same source twice unless it is tagged. With git every commit gets a unique ID. With repo you have a million commit IDs that constitute a repository and there is no simple way to capture which ones were used in any particular build. It is like going back to subversion where you can never get all your files in a consistent state without explicit tags.

    3. Re:only if you're a lazy git by hazydave · · Score: 1

      A 16GB system is hardly a "massive PC" by today's standards. Ok, maybe I'm weird, but the three-year-old PC I retired last summer was a 16GB system -- I have four times that in my new box. Even Microsoft considers 16GB a "home user" quantity of RAM.

      Any company doing serious development is going to run a build server anyway. There's no reason to believe that Android -- or any other serious OS project -- would not be optimized for the people most likely to be using it, rather than scaled down for the occasional hobby user. Thing is, doing modern cross platform software, even as an Android developer, I'd consider 16GB a minimum.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  26. Measuring marketshare. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    How do you measure market share? By units sold? Can one sale of a cheap 6 inch tablet gets the same weightage as a high end 11 inch tablet? Or by percentage of sales volume in dollars? Or share of profits made?

    Or by number of eye-ball-minutes sold to advertizers?

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Measuring marketshare. by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      How do you measure market share? By units sold?

      no, by the number of users.

      Or by percentage of sales volume in dollars?

      no.

  27. Selling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many are returned? How many are used? How many are sitting around collecting dust?

  28. i have a nexus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i only use it to listen to pirated audiobooks, i don't want to browse the web or watch youtube with google spying on me and recording everything, and for audiobooks i paid for i just use my iphone...which i must say sounds so much better, the speaker on the nexus is just total crap compared to the iphone, sounds like shit even with a damn audiobook. anyways, i guess that counds as an "android sale" nevermind the fact that i only actually buy shit from itunes so lot of good it does google, i sure hope they don't sell these things at a loss like amazon does...

  29. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tough guy going all Stallman on your ass. Here's the link https://github.com/android Now, I know you're lame little ass wanted the WIP version, but why would Google divulge what they're working on to their competitors? It never ceases to amaze me, Google opens their OS and yet there's always these little minions that want the URL to the Google internal trunk. Stick to iOS.

    1. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How come IBM, Redhat and everybody else have no problem sharing their WIP version of Linux with the world? Face it, Android is fake open source to get suckers like you to buy an inferior product.

    2. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they are using others code and are not the upstream to most of them. OHA is upstream to parts what makea the Android (most above Linux operating system) and open source != open development and you have smaller marketing impact to users if handset manufacturers dont get something New to present in their New devices.

      It is marketing baby!!!

  30. Music production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, it's not like you have any talent to do any music production.

  31. But where are all the Androids? by pubwvj · · Score: 2, Funny

    Despite this claim to large number shipped I just am not seeing Android tablets out in the hands of users. I've seen a couple (count them, two) Kindles in the real world.

    Meanwhile I've seen many hundreds of Apple's iPad's and thousands of iPhones, iPodTouches, etc.

    Something's not right with the statistics given in the article. It just doesn't match the real world. So is this a Shipped vs Sales confusion?

    Or maybe the Androids are being hidden away in 'smart' devices like toasters and washing machines. That would certainly inflate the Android numbers.

    Well, it doesn't really matter. Our family has six iPodTouches, an iPad and five MacBooks. How many Androids are being claimed to be sold is completely irrelevant. What matters is we can do the things we want to do from content creation to communications to consumption with the devices we have.

    1. Re:But where are all the Androids? by RJFerret · · Score: 2

      The circle you associate in perhaps? I know one person with an ipad, from back when tablets were new novelties and a family member purchased it for her (she's disabled, easier to use than sit at a computer, although ridiculously heavy compared to other tablets). Everyone else I know with a device has an Android. I haven't counted since, who cares? All the families have them for their kids. Plenty of individuals too. I get handed plenty of tablets to see pics or stuff through the course of living.

      Want to see a lot of Kindles? Take a flight. People leave them at home unless they expect to spend a lot of time reading. The airports are loaded with them, and tablets for the illiterate move watchers.

      Anecdotes.

      Data.

      Case in point.

    2. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Solandri · · Score: 3, Funny

      Despite this claim to large number shipped I just am not seeing Android tablets out in the hands of users. I've seen a couple (count them, two) Kindles in the real world.

      Meanwhile I've seen many hundreds of Apple's iPad's and thousands of iPhones, iPodTouches, etc.

      Something's not right with the statistics given in the article. It just doesn't match the real world. So is this a Shipped vs Sales confusion?

      These are annual sales figures. That is, they're not the number of tablets in use, they're the first derivative of the number of tablets in use. People don't buy a new tablet every year - they keep it around for a few years. So the tablets you'll see in use are a weighted culmination of 2011, 2012, and 2013 sales, which if I remember were about 85% iPad, 60% iPad, and now 36% iPad

      Despite what the Apple apologists have posted above, the important thing is the trend. And it's pretty clear that the trend is down for Apple (in market share - growth in the market means their unit sales are still increasing, just nowhere near as quickly as Android's unit sales are). They will need to come out with better products with better features (or lower prices) and more options (the iPad Mini was a good step) if they want to regain the market lead or even hang on to their current market share. Of course Apple being Apple, they might not care about that. They may be content having just 5% of the market if it's a very lucrative 5%.

      And about 2/3rds of phones I see in use are Android, about 2/3rds of the tablets are iPads, and the last time I saw an iPod Touch was in a drawer gathering dust.

    3. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Wild_dog! · · Score: 3, Funny

      I see lots of tablets at elementary schools.
      Seems like all the kids have them now since they got them as stocking stuffers.
      My kids keep asking why they can't get tablets and take them to school.
      Seems they are the only ones without devices at recess.
      hahahaha

    4. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another kind of family here:

      2 Linux work stations, 1 Linux laptop, Android tablet, Android phone, and latest addition a "real" Linux phone (Jolla with Sailfish OS) ;)

      Macs come to this house only over my dead body.

    5. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's not it. Its the psychology of sameness. If you buy a Ford, then suddenly you see millions of Fords on the road. If you buy a Chev, suddenly everyone is driving a Chev. You luv your new Apple toy. You see others with the same toy, and you chat with them. They seem to be everywhere. Its a psychology thing. Your world view is skewed by your brain. Its normal.

    6. Re:But where are all the Androids? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I kind of dislike how Kindle Fire and Kindle Paperwhite (and Barnes and Noble's competing products) get lumped into the same category. An e-paper device is not a tablet. It can't run apps, can't do video, can't do animated menus, can barely do text entry. If it could do apps, it might be ok for texting, possibly.

      What it does, do, it does very well. It displays books for reading, and has a battery that lasts 1-2 months, depending on how bright and how long you run the frontlight for.

      By your sentence, I'm assuming that you see the e-paper kindles on airplanes, rather than the tablet kindle, which makes sense to me. If you're going to get a tablet to read books on, why get the crippled Amazon tablet when you could get a Galaxy or iPad and install the kindle app.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    7. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let there repharse it from where i live

      "Despite this claim to large number shipped I just am not seeing iOS tablets out in the hands of users. I've seen a couple (count them, two) iPhones in the real world."

      Do you know there are countries not called USA?

    8. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Maybe your world needs to be a bit larger. Where I live, I see lots of folks using Android devices. In public, even!

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    9. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      I've been flying for business several times in the past month (and several times last year). With the recent easing on in-flight electronics, I've seen what seems like an explosion in tablet use that really surprised me, and a drop-off in laptop use.

      And every time the tablet users are almost universally iPads, with a few kindles thrown in for good measure.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    10. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I must say, the new Mac Pro would make quite an effective bludgeon. Small, but solid and a nice hand grip for perfect control when swinging.

      I don't know what it is today with self professed Linux elitists, I've been a *NIX hold out for as long as I care to remember. I transitioned from NT 4.0 on a Pentium Pro to Solaris on an UltraSPARC workstation and never looked back. I have given up on trying to use a desktop Linux and got a Mac, why? Linux desktop environments are trying to be Windows, the toolkits seem to have given up on the UNIX way. An example, when trying to move the insertion point (cursor for you n00bs) instead of using Ctrl + A or Ctrl + E as ${deity} intended, I have to use f*cking Windows equivalent keys, Home and End like a neanderthal. The Mac has adopted all the niceness of UNIX usability in the interface by offering pretty much full Emacs keybindings anywhere text is being entered. Just one of advantages of the Mac as a desktop over Linux these days.

    11. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been flying for business

      A self selecting group of rich people. Hardly representative of the market in general.

    12. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I work in a public school as a systems administrator. I administrate our Google Apps for Education account. When I look at the mobile devices that have connected their accounts it's about 62% Apple devices that are registered. When we look at devices connected to our wireless network it averages about the same at 58% Apple devices. And we are not a rich district with just over half of our students on free or reduced lunches.

      However, when I go into the buildings it like all I see in students hands are iPhones, iPods, and iPads. Now maybe the Android kids just don't pull out their devices like the Apple kids? LOL

    13. Re:But where are all the Androids? by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      A kindle fire can run apps. It just can't connect to Google's app store. I have a bunch of apps on mine including games, word processor, weather and news apps, etc.

    14. Re:But where are all the Androids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, you pull the elitist, snob card...

    15. Re:But where are all the Androids? by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      "The circle you associate in perhaps?"

      No, I'm taking about out on the street. I just don't see Androids out there. Or maybe they're all hiding...

  32. Go to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bed old man. iOS, is for simpletons after all.

    1. Re:Go to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ProTip: If you want to imply that someone's a simpleton, it's much more effective if you can spell and punctuate better than the simpleton.

  33. The devices don't matter. The cloud does. by technomom · · Score: 1

    What this article is totally glossing over is the fact that Google is making a lot of inroads, not just through Android devices that are tied into Google services and apps, but also through their iOS apps which have gained a lot of traction as well. Two of the top iOS apps of 2013 were Google Maps and YouTube, both huge ad revenue generators for Google. In the long run, this could be troubling for Apple as it boxes them in to remaining mostly a hardware company. Hardware gets commoditized much faster than software and services do.

  34. The numbers are wrong though Android is still #1 by beltsbear · · Score: 1

    Again they are comparing Apple delivered to customer numbers and Android shipping wholesale numbers. Many of those are junk tablets that are never. In addition Apple reported higher numbers in an SEC regulated report that Gartner used, Apple says 74 million, Gartner used the figure of 70 million.

    http://appleinsider.com/articl...

  35. crap android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the biggest lie yet!

  36. tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of all the people i see using and having tablets, i never seen one being android, all are apple. always.

    1. Re:tablets by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Head to the school yard. Tons of Android Tablets there.

    2. Re:tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And none of the people I know have ipads so you must be wrong. Or we just have limited data to work with

  37. Beta does not work in safari for me. by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    Can't load additional comments, password goofiness at login. this blows.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  38. I still don't trust Gartner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't care. I still don't trust Gartner (even if they are saying good things). I will look to other sources before I look at theirs.

  39. I wish it ran linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish it ran X Window System natively vs Android. I have Droid 1, 2 and 3 phones which are used as wifi palm-tablets, and nexus 7(aweful imo), and some powerful china tablet....

    Having started with computers as a kid in the 80's and progressing on, I find the possibility of these devices a fulfillment of a dream(With only neural interface to remain a dream). But there is a problem...

    As soon as one product is released, anticipation for the next is already underway, and most support for existing devices lasts only a year or so, never truly resolving problems for users who, actually use their devices. Sure messaging, or facebook, or some other trendy feature problems get patched pretty quickly; But stability issues are rarely addressed, or quirks of the system where an app might be suspended in one device when the screen is off and not in 5 others(yes familiar with various sleep/power options).

    This is a big issue for me who really WANTS to have Android do more, but I spend weeks trying to resolve stability/app issues with alternative roms etc etc; Making matters worse is with each new version of Android/devices features are removed, stability worsened.

    If they can put a removable battery in a Droid2/Droid3 they can put it in most anything; and should; If you buy something without an easily replaceable battery you are supporting designed obsolescence.
    Google and other larger players are removing microSD slots saying it's 'too complicated', as we know the real reason is to charge dumb customers for cloud services. I try to reduce services on a monthly subscription; Hell give me a device with TWO SD slots.

    Currently the most stable/goto device of all listed above are Droid2(a955 and a956) with Cyanogenmod 7.1 without google apps installed(everything side installed); It finally works and I have weeks(47 days atm) of uptime/stability(AND doing lots of work, security camera monitoring, mail,irc, samba,torrenting,video), I want other newer devices to do t he same, but not been able to get the stability/function quite right.

    Still I'd love it to just run linux with a native* OS and apps, it would be 'that much faster', and more control over the OS(Curse Android for pre-launching/anticipating apps, and lack of user control over what closes/opens/reports when)

  40. most android users by zisel · · Score: 1

    Could it be true but there are still many problems that android users encountered like battery is easily drain.

  41. Bill Gates must be pissed Pen Windows never caught by ZeekWatson · · Score: 1

    Bill Gates must be pissed Pen Windows never caught on. First released in 1991!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...

  42. In related news by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

    Hamburger tops steak in meat sales race.

    --
    Greed is the root of all evil.
  43. "soon" by globaljustin · · Score: 0

    will soon be installable on Android tablets and phones. Bingo.

    "bingo"

    gah...this kills me...yes i'm posting vitriol but I have a coherent point...

    you can't say "bingo" in a witty retort unless you...you know...actually 'slam' the person with your witticism..

    see, saying X is good because it will be here "soon" therefore you "bingo" made some kind of awesome winning point in a debate....especially in relation to Linux distros....well it's fucking stupid

    here's the thing...this FANBOI ABOVE ALL ELSE mentality is actually hurting our industry

    it gives people unrealistic notions of what is actually used and what actually **works** in tech...it makes us look stupid when inevitably the all-volunteer OS software isn't ready when it is claimed...it gives newer tech workers false notions of what work is valuable

    I HATE ALL FANBOIDOM....all fanboi hype bullshit...apple, M$, Linux, I don't give a FUCK it's all stupid

    stop the madness....stop the fanboi hype

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:"soon" by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I didn't intend to be witty or slam someone.
      I wasn't trying to win a debate either. There wasn't an actual debate by any definition I know of.
      Someone says 'we need an open platform' I say 'sailfish, bingo'

      What am I a fanboi of exactly?

      Your point can only be coherent if it is readily relevant to a particular point.
      Your analysis of what my comment was, what my comment meant, and my personal status as some sort of fanboi are not apt.
      In this case my comment is so entirely trite that there is not much grist for you to react to other than what you yourself are seeing.

      In this case "bingo" just meant. You want an open platform other than android. here is an option.

    2. Re:"soon" by globaljustin · · Score: 1

      here's your problem...you don't process the word "soon"

      you say this:

      here is an option.

      NO ITS NOT...it's not an option at all...it **might** be an option "soon"

      you comment as if something that **might** happen has already happened

      that's bullshit...that's hype

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    3. Re:"soon" by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      What semantic gymnastics you are trying to pull off. Why are you trying to imbue what I said with something other than what I said.
      You misconstrued the bit I originally posted and then tried to tie it with something I wrote in response to you.
      The original post is simple and too the point. I can't be responsible for your constructing another reality about what it all meant.
      That is for you to distill for yourself.

      In response to the OP I posted.
      "Sailfish OS based on Meego will soon be installable on Android tablets and phones. Bingo."

      There is nothing about that statement which patently false, fanboish, witty, or a debate point.
      There is nothing misleading or unrealistic about the statement.
      There is nothing in my statement which has anything to do with what is used or works in the tech world overall.
      Although Sailfish OS is a linux based distro, I wasn't touting Linux.
      I was trying to find something pertinent to the OP who wanted an alternative to Android OS I assume .
      The statement doesn't make the tech world look stupid.
      The statement makes no mention of the value of work of tech workers or anyone else.
      The statement is not hype. It is called information. People can look at it or not as they will and see if the info has relevance for what they want.

      I completely disagree with your vitriolic post.
      I'm not sure what the point of it is. To attack me, whom you don't know. Why would someone wish to impugn a random person presenting simple information? To what end? Or is your point to rail against mock fanboi foes?
      Incoherence does not make your case very well in either case.

      Do you often pick random people on the internet to jump all over with vitriolic tirades? What is your goal?
      Although you say seek as you say to present a coherent point, I fear you may have missed the mark since Ad Hominem attacks on random unknown folks on the web do not bode well for the logic or strength of ones own case. Too much labeling combined with non-existence of support for what you are saying is simply silliness.

  44. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More Chevys are sold than Ferraris.

  45. What about updating the OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All iPod 2nd gen and newer can all be updated to IOS7.

    How many Android tablets can be updated without "hacking"?

    1. Re:What about updating the OS? by pbjones · · Score: 1

      bzzzzzt, wrong! my gen 4 iPod touch can't be upgraded to iOS 7. or are you trying to say iPAD?

      --
      There was an unknown error in the submission.
    2. Re:What about updating the OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops. I meant iPad.

  46. no brainer by pbjones · · Score: 1

    free vs. commercial, free with cheap hardware will win every time.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  47. full linux distro by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

    can't we have a full GNU/Linux distro running natively on these phones /tablets ?

    1. Re:full linux distro by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Maemo was pretty close to that. Pretty much Debian with a custom desktop environment. Sailfish is kind of in the same realm too.

  48. butthurt by gblfxt · · Score: 0

    wow, the apple fan-boy butt hurt is strong here.....

  49. Linux is on a roll? by DrXym · · Score: 1

    Linux in android is confined to the kernel. Virtually everything in user land is BSD based from the C runtime up. While the kernel performs a vital role, I suspect that if Google had reason to they could switch it out and users would barely notice.

  50. Mod up as Insightful. by jazzis · · Score: 1

    If I had mod points now...

  51. Google Connected Tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I could be wrong, but I believe this number only includes tablets connected to the Google ecosystem. I wonder how many tens of millions of non-connected tablets from developing countries and Kindle Fires were sold in 2013?

  52. The API that the developer sees by tepples · · Score: 1

    Developers of applications that run on Android code to the Android userland API, which largely isolates developers from the kernel. Developers of applications that run on top of embedded Linux, such as developers of home router firmware, code to a lower level API where the kernel is important.

    1. Re:The API that the developer sees by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Lots of developers codes in Python and Java, both of which sit as API and library layers atop the Linux kernel. So what? Abstraction layers of all sorts exist for virtually every operating system, and Dalvik is no different. Underneath is still the Linux kernel.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:The API that the developer sees by The123king · · Score: 1

      If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

      Linux is Linux no matter where it's installed. You're more welcoming to add Linux for System/Z (i've never seen, will see, or particularly care for the existence of an IBM System/Z big iron) than the most prolific and successful Linux distribution ever in the history of Linux? Sure, it's not "GNU/Linux", and what a f**k**g shame.... There's too many slightly incompatible GNU/Linux distro's out there, and too many neckbeards fighting over which slightly incompatible OS is better. When something good and positive for Linux appears on slashdot, why can't you all agree that it's a good thing. After all, i've got more hope of getting that Angry Birds apk working on CyanogenMod than i do a VLC RPM on CentOS.

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
  53. If you ever want to target Fire OS by tepples · · Score: 1

    How many applications absolutely require Google Play Services? I thought developers of applications designed for Android tablets were supposed to architect their applications to make Google Play Services optional in order to target Fire OS, the Android distribution used on Amazon's Kindle Fire tablets.

  54. Like looking into the mirror by ThePhilips · · Score: 0

    Also, everyone is buying tablets.

    False.

    I'm not buying one.

    Until they start producing ones with a matte screen.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  55. All maximized all the time by tepples · · Score: 1

    I guess one thing keeping people from accepting Android's victory among Linux GUIs is that while GNU/Linux allows several different window management policies on top of X11, Android locks users into all maximized all the time. This policy works for some but importantly not all use cases. If you're trying to take notes on an e-book or other document, you can split the screen with one document on one side and your notetaking application on the other in any major X11 window manager, but not in Android. Even if a tablet is bigger than two or three phone displays put together, you can't split the screen. Even if you've docked the device to a big honkin' 24 inch monitor through a device's HDMI port, you still can't split the screen. What happens is that the Android Compatibility Definition Document allows applications to assume that the screen area never changes after an application is installed. Is this intended to get people to buy two devices, one for reading and one for writing?

    1. Re: All maximized all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung has side by side functions for the Note tabs.

    2. Re: All maximized all the time by tepples · · Score: 1

      Does Samsung multi-window mode work for all applications, or does it work only for applications hand-picked by Samsung?

    3. Re:All maximized all the time by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Customers want no more of beating a desktop user interface into a handheld device any more. E.g. WinMo. Get over it.

      Or install Ubuntu on your Android phone.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    4. Re: All maximized all the time by hazydave · · Score: 1

      The Samsung home shell for Android, these days, has a window manager. Works pretty well, for launching either paneled apps (side by side, or quadrants on the 12" tablets).

      Does it allow all apps? Nope. Only those chosen by Samsung? Not that either. It works with any app that sets a few Android XML variables that indicate the app is multi window safe, and that specify minimum and default window sizes. Android apps get the screen size handed to them on open, and can either respond to a resize message or let Android handle it... similar to going from landscape to portrait. But an unexpectedly small screen could confuse some apps. Hopefully, Google and Samsung get together on making this a standard. Given that it's a two minute process (well, plus testing of course), it should be well supported.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
    5. Re:All maximized all the time by hazydave · · Score: 1

      I've heard that said before, but that's not how Android actually works. Nothing happens at install time to fix the screen resolution, and in fact your app doesn't know the screen resolution until runtime. Android also supports a screen resize message, not the same as change of orientation. Apps don't have to handle screen resize. If you doesn't, Android will take down its UI, then restart with the new screen size.

      In any case, Samsung isn't using a white list per se... inclusion in the multi window menu is base on your app being tagged (in the XML) for multiwindow ow support. Anyone can use this.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  56. Apple Stinks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because Apple products are for fan boys and old ladies.

  57. Wow, way to dismiss Windows... by kenh · · Score: 1

    Microsoft still only has 2% of the tablet market.

    In 2012 MS had 1% of the market, in 2013 MS doubled market share to 2%, but that hides the fact that MS went from 1.1M units in 2012 to 4M units in 2013.

    Microsoft doubled market share in a growing market, nearly quadrupling the number of units sold between 2012 and 2013...

    --
    Ken
  58. Samsungs 8.4 Tab by hackus · · Score: 1

    Is the only tablet up till now I would consider buying after my Thrive, that has a limitation of no removable battery.

    It is very good.

    Unless someone knows how I can get KitKat on my Toshiba Thrive, which is still a great tablet, going on its third battery.

    --
    Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
  59. Pomegranates by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    From TFS:

    Linux is on a roll. After conquering the smartphone space, Android is now dominating the tablet space.

    Android is only "linux" in the sense that a poor man is a rich man. They're both men, but the former has so many limits compared to the latter that the day to day experience is in no way similar. Linux, the computer OS we consider on the same playing field as OSX and Windows -- and what people almost always mean when they say "linux" -- is on no more of a roll than usual. Until (unless... I really don't expect it to happen) there is an actual linux available for the phone where the legit owner of the phone can have root and can get at everything there is in the software and hardware, it's only linux in name -- the poor man. There are many reasons why the corporate and political world wants to keep us away from the actual telephone and radio hardware, and I can't see those going away -- they're worth far too much money. So that rules out the phones. Most tablets are similarly locked down, but with less reason, and again, I just don't see them as "linux." I can do a lot more -- a lot more -- on my linux desktops than I can on my various android tablets. And of course, I can't do much under iOS, either.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  60. you didn't counter GP's criticism by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    hey man, it's not like I excoriated your whole existence

    I *did* have a coherent point...about our industry and hype...that's where my rage was vented no you, Wild_dog!

    Yes you exhibited fanboi behavior. Linux fanboi.

    TFA seemed a bit like an ad for Linux...Android was developed by google, so a Gentoo user claiming that Android's penetration is a "win for Linux" was questionable. TFA was not what it seemed.

    A commenter pointed out this and YOU responded.

    Your response was a fanboi response. The GP raised a **legitimate point** and you answered as if your point **bingo** answered that criticism.

    BINGO

    "soon"

    your point about Sailfish OS and Meego does NOT answer the GP's criticism!

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:you didn't counter GP's criticism by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Not excoriating my existence.
      Fair enough you didn't excoriate my existence just berated a simple informational point as something it wasn't nor intended to be and equated me with something you and I both find distasteful (fanbois) but labeled my information as fanboi hooha.

      You say the full article seemed like an ad, I didn't read the article. I was only commenting on what I thought the other poster was saying. Perhaps you took my commentary to be Linux Fanboi-ism it wasn't.

      Anyhow. what I interpreted the OP to be saying was all he thought was needed was an open platform.
      I just pointed him to an upcoming possibility.
      Bingo is just something people say as an exclamation sometimes. Kind of like ah-ha I found this. Or woot woot here you go. Bingo isn't an end all answer or anything at least not in the context I was intending. It is kind of like saying wooohooo in the sense of excitement I was intending.

      What legitimate point in your view was the GP raising that I answered by the exclamation Bingo. Bingo doesn't answer anything. The words before the bingo provide some information and I was excited to share it. Quite simple really. Nothing fanboi about that in the slightest.

    2. Re:you didn't counter GP's criticism by globaljustin · · Score: 1

      well thnx for responding...i guess i will say you 'win' b/c you stayed on topic and didnt troll so good for you!

      if you say you're not a fanboi at this point I'm inclined to agree...I'd appreciate some acknowledgement of my point about hype tho

      L8r

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    3. Re:you didn't counter GP's criticism by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I don't really think of the discussion in terms of winning anything. I merely want to counter assertions about me or what I was intending.
      We can both agree that fanboi culture is useless and irritating.
      We probably both agree that in some measure trolling is annoying.

      Fanboi's and Trolls are a small and persistent part of any online forums both now and on into the future.
      I'm not as indignant about "hype" in the same way you seem to be. You seem to be thinking of hype as a primary mechanism for fanboi's of all flavors to push forward their ideas. I suppose this could be true hype is a bad thing, but I look at it in terms of everything I read. I can take it or leave it.
      The only thing though that I find tiresome is the Fanboi tendency to constantly bring up the same points over and over again in every thread. Each side bashes the other in a tiresome and non-sensical way, but more or less the same all of the time. None of any side is interested in looking at what is or isn't factual and none seems swayed that there are benefits to every platform and it is ok for people to chose them without being accused of being dim-witted.

  61. Gamers accept closed consoles by tepples · · Score: 1

    What on earth is "premium android"? Do you mean "custom ROM"? [...] The main difference is in the raw power of the hardware.

    I don't know what noh8rz10 means, but I mean an Android device with enough "raw power of the hardware" to run a decent ROM. This means a fast enough CPU, enough RAM that the task killer doesn't kill Chrome as soon as you switch back to the launcher (possible exaggeration), and a responsive touch screen.

    Every android user has access to the same software.

    Not necessarily. There's Android with Google Play (OHA members), there's Fire OS (Amazon), and there's plain AOSP (everyone else).

    Every apple user has access to the same software

    Within less than a year after Apple stopped selling the iPod touch 4, it stopped releasing new versions of iOS for it.

    and the same hardware.

    Not necessarily. Apple's strategy for the low end of iOS has been to keep selling previous-generation products: the iPhone 3GS while the 4S was out, the 5C (iPhone 5 guts in a colored plastic shell) after the 5S release, and the non-retina iPad 2 after the iPad 4.

    The reason they are falling behind is the same reason they fell behind in the 90s. They sell closed, proprietary tech.

    So why haven't the video game console makers fallen behind despite their tech being even more closed than an iPhone?

  62. A docked 10" tablet is not a 4" phone by tepples · · Score: 1

    If I put a 10" tablet on a stand and pair a keyboard, is it still a "handheld device"? If not, then why does a 10" tablet still labor under the UI restrictions of a 4" phone?

    1. Re:A docked 10" tablet is not a 4" phone by The123king · · Score: 1

      Because Microsoft tried it and failed, and nowevery OS vendor is scared to try to conjoin tablet and desktop oses

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    2. Re:A docked 10" tablet is not a 4" phone by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      It's not a handheld device then. But DIY and open source community has always been ahead in versatility department. You being a developer have a choice of installing Ubuntu on your tablet. General public will get the choice in a decade or 3. Nothing surprising.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  63. Lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gartner counting every 10 dollar Walmart special haha.

  64. Insert "Hahaha - OH WOW" gif here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if it was so open, there wouldn't be lawsuits going on right now asking for Google to expose its source code to look for stolen code. And Samsung et al wouldn't be making their own OS (Tizen) and same with Firefox.

    1. Re:Insert "Hahaha - OH WOW" gif here. by hazydave · · Score: 1

      Samsung isn't making their own OS. Tizen is a Linux Foundation project. Yes, it's supported by Samsung and Intel. Samsung and Intel are also the two largest contributors to Android, aside from Google. Samsung's using Tizen as a replacement for BadaOS. In fact, there are two official Tizen APIs: the BadaOS API (the official NDK), which was ported last year, and HTML5/Javascript/JQuery. Samsung sold about 10 million low-end smartphones running BadaOS. Sometime this year, they're expected to release Tizen phones into that same market, but so far, they only have a developer unit available. They're also using it in the next generation smart watch, and a digital camera. Other companies are looking at Tizen as kind of a competitor to QNX in auto entertainment systems.

      The point of Tizen is the same as the point of FirefoxOS: sub-Android smart devices.It's also not entirely open source: the SDK, for example, is published under a non-open-source license from Samsung. Some other non-GNU-compatible licenses cover other parts of the finished OS.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  65. Testing cost by tepples · · Score: 1

    Hopefully, Google and Samsung get together on making this a standard.

    My gripe is that they haven't already. They've had since Honeycomb to do so.

    Given that it's a two minute process (well, plus testing of course)

    Does this sort of testing work flawlessly in the Android SDK device simulator, or does one have to buy a Galaxy Tab to do the testing? Perhaps part of the reason that not enough Android apps have the proper flag set in their manifest is that not enough developers own a suitable Samsung device.

  66. Instead of Sony or Nintendo consoles, use a PC by tepples · · Score: 1

    I assume that you're similarly disdainful for anybody who uses a game console or handheld?

    Yes. Instead of a game console, one can choose a home theater PC. Instead of a handheld, one can choose a phone with a clip-on gamepad. Some clip-on gamepads even fold up like a GBA SP.