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Ask Slashdot: Linux For Grandma?
First time accepted submitter BlazeMiskulin writes "With XP approaching end-of-life, I find myself in a situation that I'm guessing is common: What to do with Mom's machine (or 'grandma's machine' for the younger of you). Since a change has to be made, this seems like a good time to move to a Linux distro. My mother (82) uses her computer for e-mail and web-browsing only. I know that any distro will be able to handle her needs. I've been using Linux (Ubuntu, CentOS, and Redhat--usually with KDE interface) for about 10 years now, but I know that my preferences are quite different from hers.
I have my own ideas, but I'm curious what others think: What combination of distro and UI would you recommend for an old, basic-level user who is accustomed to the XP interface and adverse to change?" My Grandmother seems happy running KDE on Debian.
I have my own ideas, but I'm curious what others think: What combination of distro and UI would you recommend for an old, basic-level user who is accustomed to the XP interface and adverse to change?" My Grandmother seems happy running KDE on Debian.
If she does, I would suggest Linux Mint, as it will have a reasonably familiar interface (icons, start menu) and is also an acceptable system. Keep in mind that you will have to keep adjusting it to her tastes, for example, editing menus or creating icons for her. If you are familiar with another systems (say, Unity), you might try that. As you will have to give her support, it's very important that you are familiar
And pray she doesn't want to stay with Windows. My mother learned to use Windows 8 out of spite enough so she doesn't need Linux, but not enough so she can keep her own computer clean (by the way, I need to go back there check how is the new antivirus working, does anybody have good recomendations?).
I setup a Linux station over 10 years back for my mother, who at the time was used to XP. Worry less about the distribution and more about the ease of the steps that it takes to do the tasks she wants to accomplish. I setup up an AWN dock with Firefox, OpenOffice Apps and VLC. In the end it kinda looked like ChromeOS does these days... I handled patching, updates, support via VNC. The amount of support calls dropped signficantly because it just worked. Change usually isn't the problem trying to memorize new series of complicated steps is.
KDE on Debian or any other distro tends to provide the most "XP like" user interface that I've seen. You just need to enable double-click mouse behaviour instead of the default single-click, add a few of their favourite apps to the desktop, and they're good to go.
If you're on an old system, you'll want to disable the file indexing daemons as well, as they can consume a lot of CPU and slow the machine down. If all the main user does is email and web browsing, they're not going to benefit from the indexing.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
..and that is coming from a die-hard Slackware user.
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I'm recommending a Chromebook to my mother in the same situation of web browsing and web-based email only. I like it for her since it's low cost, difficult to do anything software-wise to mess it up, and as close to zero maintenance as I can find.
Mint is an excellent team and the Debian based distribution is a rolling release distro (so fewer fresh installs for you) Also. LXDE is about as basic and standards compliant as it gets. Start menu, task bar, desktop icons, standard window manager, file manager, and with Network Manager, it's virtually a clone of the Win95/XP design.
I think you'll find that pretty much any solid distro (such as mainstream Fedora, Ubuntu and Debian derivatives) with either XFCE, LXDE or KDE (if you don't mind a lot of bloat) will accommodate most people fairly well, while being relatively easy to learn in a short amount of time. After all, I bet she spends most of her time in Firefox :/
I'm also interested in hearing what others recommend.
-PM
One hour and a usb live stick should be all that is required to let Grandma try out KDE, Gnome, XFCE, etc.
Let her pick, she is the one that has to actually use it after all.
If all she is doing is basic email and web browsing, why not use chrome os.
And yes, it is Linux
http://www.google.com/intl/en/... I've moved my mother from WinXP to a Chromebook three months back, and because she was already using Chrome beforehand, she took to it while hardly noticing it was different. I haven't needed to help her once to do what she normally does (email and web).
I think its more of a concern of the machine's age. Its not going to run forever. Windows has changed so much that to many its unrecognizable. Why not look for something open source and that grams may like?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Support is support then. If you have to do a lot of hand holding for them anyways, then you might as well do it with whatever YOU the support person is most comfortable with.
Unix has the advantage that it can be remotely supported through a 2400 baud dial-up connection.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
My mother (who is a grandmother to my kids) runs Debian Wheezy with the XFCE desktop environment. The machine is fairly locked down and I've made quick-launchers for the apps she uses 99% of the time: Email, web-browsing, word-processing, music player and video player.
She's happy and I can administer the machine remotely, so I'm happy.
My Mother (now in her late 80's) has been using Linux and KDE since I gave her a computer back in the 90's. I had it dual boot for a while but finally gave that up when I spent far to much time fighting windows. By then she was comfortable with Linux and only needed one windows program that I was able to run under Wine.
Other family members have accounts on the same machine so they have net access when visiting ( less of an issue now with tablets and laptops) and I handle the admin details. I'll be visiting her this weekend and will probably spend less than an hour updating and checking logs. My last visit to do this was Christmas.
It's a no-brainer.
Please, give her an iPad.
Less problems for you, less problems for Grandma.
Zero maintenance, easy to use.
This is no contest.
Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
Maybe not the answer you're looking for, but let your (grand)mother try an iPad. My mother (who is also a grandmother) loves it, and keeps telling me so.
Perl Programmer for hire
I think its more of a concern of the machine's age. Its not going to run forever. Windows has changed so much that to many its unrecognizable. Why not look for something open source and that grams may like?
That is a very good point. I set up a new computer for my sister with Windows 7. Even that was enough to give her some issues. W8? Truly unrecognizeable. fuggidaboutit!
But her old computer was about to crap out, and it was A Windows XP Pro system that was - beyond all belief - not one update. It used a lot of programs that aren't in existance any more, and/or not compatible with W7. No compatibility mode, nothing - they wouldn't even install.
This is an extreme example of what people are up against. But still an example.
So I just sat down with her and explained that we'd get close to what she had, but 14 years is a log time in computer terms, so she'd have to learn a little bit.
Path of least resistance type stuff. Windows 7 allowed for it. W8? Not hardly.
To the topic at hand, installing W8 is not really a good option for a lot of people, especially if they don't have a touchscreen. Yeah, we can do this and that, and do something to make it looks sorta like kinda something. But it's such a huge step, and not even a step forward. It's learning almost everything new to do the same thing you were doing before. And some things end up arbittrarily different, like on my Wife's W8 Laptop, the integral mail program won't do POPMail. or only certain programs can be turned into desktop shortcuts.
And since whenever you set up or fix a computer for a friend or relative, you own every problem that happens afterward, I simply won't install or work on a W8 computer aside from my wife's touchscreen laptop. Linux or W7 is the only thing I'll support.
And I heartily recommend Mint.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
My mother who is 83 has been running Kubuntu turn since the Vista days. She has learned to trouble shoot her printer problems. Even grannies can learn linux.
Pics of your mom hitting up man pages and googling her own solutions and fixing her own printer or it didn't fucking happen.
Wednesday I got a visit from my neighbor asking for help with his computer. My heart sank. I had set him up with Mint 15 on his laptop and he was happily using it for the past 6 months. "What's wrong?" I asked. He said "something about "user profile service"". Oh, he means his desktop (Vista) so I fix it by doing a system restore. I asked about the laptop. "Its working fine, no complaints."
For this man to have no complaints, you have to understand what a dramatic experience computers are for him. He was a truck driver for the county. Never worked a day of his life at a computer, but his wife was a secretary. (She has passed on). So he tries to do stuff.. but any little thing that changes is a big deal. MSN shut down MSN messenger service and replaced it with Skype. That generated two visits from him - one the "little man" disappeared. And the new Skype icon that they installed for him. He even added his own MyFi to it.
And that is why I recommend Linux. It's never generated a support call to me from him.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Then use KDE on Debian.You can overthink the solution if you will take time to puzzle it through.If she is happy,then use that.No need to get too fancy with the distro.
The Geek Hillbilly
Seriously. Why even bother updating if what she has works, and that's all she does with it.
Really????
Because Windows XP support is dropped next month and has for the past 10 plus years has been in a constant cracker/patcher battle because it is about as secure as a sieve is water tight. After next month there will be no more patches period. Mean while Windows Server 2003 which is based on the same exact source code will be getting patched for years more. These Windows Server 2003 patches will essentially be giving a security exploit guide to crackers and will leave millions of computers with absolutely no protection whatsoever. Running windows XP on the internet the day after support is dropped is like just asking to become some botnet masters bitch. THATS WHY!
Secondly the submitter wants to avoid this situation form ever happening again. If he uses Linux or other open source software he can much more easily migrate and mitigate issues like this.
And finally windows 8 will be very confusing to older relives that have only ever used Windows XP, which they already barely understand how to use. So moving them to Linux will be less traumatic because the only interface they see will be much more similar to what they are used to.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Seriously, ask her. Show her a couple of options that you're willing to support, point out the differences from her old desktop, and let her choose.
I recommend something with an OSX dock-style launcher, perhaps Unity (with appropriate privacy tweaks) or Avant Window Navigator. I got a 70-year-old to switch from Windows to Ubuntu/Unity in under an hour, with very few follow-up questions.
It might also be helpful to give her a linux distribution that you use regularly, so any support you have to do in the future will be in a familiar environment.
unless she has sensitive information stored on her machine or uses it for card purchases then the risk posed by malware is minimal.
Or if you want to be some botnet masters bitch, and have your computer used for mineing bitcoins for him eating your power, or be used for his backup porn storage array. then yeah go ahead and run a massively insecure unsupported unpatched outdated OS then by all means go ahead and leave it alone.
There are time to not evangelize and try to convert people to the church of linux. But this is not one of those times or cases the guy is going to be the one forced to fix all of the problems anyway and is more familiar/comfortable in linux, old people will be just as confused with linux or windows 8 either way, and leaving them on XP just is not a realistic option unless he wants to reimage his grandmothers OS install every weekend for the rest of her natural life.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
There are certain things in the kernel itself for Linux that my customers have found drastically confusing and I've found difficult to explain. So really I don't think Linux (or computers) are great for old people. Single purpose devices seemed more popular for a bit years ago like e-mail only devices but I don't know what happened to that big market.
Why the hell are they looking at the kernal in the first place?
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
All the Mint talk in here reminds me of a funny comment in a slashdot article from a while back, forget where or who, but I saved it:
Is anyone aware of similar issues with Mint?
Yes. It converts you into a mindless drone who must recommend Mint in every turn when Ubuntu is mentioned.
Side effects include chanting the line "I switched to Mint and have never looked back."
KDE is ok but not the best unless the user is a power user who likes a more custom desktop. Better XP alternatives are mint with cinnamon or xfce. Both seem a bit snappier and less laden with configuration options. If mum is running XP with the default Fisher price theme and the clouds-and-rolling-green-fields wallpaper the featuritis of KDE is wasted on her.
That said a bit of change is not always bad. If mum uses web for everything then chromebook is pretty classic looking and very simple to use and maintain assuming you are getting new hardware and want affordability. OTOH it could be useful to depart from the possibly stale XP era desktop style if mum is not too set in her ways. In my personal experience GNOME 3 has gone over fairly well. If us FOSS hackers hate it that often means it is something casual users will like;-) . With GNOME 3 you get something that reduces down to a simple launcher. In just a few minutes you can put mum's apps in the favourites dock, do a couple minor tweaks then show mum how to launch her app. Virtually everything us /. types b!tch about w.r.t. GNOME like hidden or missing config options or problems with multi desktop on multi monitor are stuff mum has no clue about and will never care to learn about. So GNOME is the choice I made and now they think all forms of MSFT windows suck.
those minimal requirements are B.S., they'll get you a system that would bog down on typical youtube page. Hard disk with a windows office product and typical software will need 20+ GB to actually run.
from experience, minimal win 8 machine needs 4GB RAM, 60 GB disk
Here you go VNC viewer for Chrome https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vnc-viewer-for-google-chr/iabmpiboiopbgfabjmgeedhcmjenhbla?hl=en
Chrome Remote Desktop https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-remote-desktop/gbchcmhmhahfdphkhkmpfmihenigjmpp?hl=en
And there is bunch of RDP viewers too.