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Ask Slashdot: Linux For Grandma?
First time accepted submitter BlazeMiskulin writes "With XP approaching end-of-life, I find myself in a situation that I'm guessing is common: What to do with Mom's machine (or 'grandma's machine' for the younger of you). Since a change has to be made, this seems like a good time to move to a Linux distro. My mother (82) uses her computer for e-mail and web-browsing only. I know that any distro will be able to handle her needs. I've been using Linux (Ubuntu, CentOS, and Redhat--usually with KDE interface) for about 10 years now, but I know that my preferences are quite different from hers.
I have my own ideas, but I'm curious what others think: What combination of distro and UI would you recommend for an old, basic-level user who is accustomed to the XP interface and adverse to change?" My Grandmother seems happy running KDE on Debian.
I have my own ideas, but I'm curious what others think: What combination of distro and UI would you recommend for an old, basic-level user who is accustomed to the XP interface and adverse to change?" My Grandmother seems happy running KDE on Debian.
If she does, I would suggest Linux Mint, as it will have a reasonably familiar interface (icons, start menu) and is also an acceptable system. Keep in mind that you will have to keep adjusting it to her tastes, for example, editing menus or creating icons for her. If you are familiar with another systems (say, Unity), you might try that. As you will have to give her support, it's very important that you are familiar
And pray she doesn't want to stay with Windows. My mother learned to use Windows 8 out of spite enough so she doesn't need Linux, but not enough so she can keep her own computer clean (by the way, I need to go back there check how is the new antivirus working, does anybody have good recomendations?).
I setup a Linux station over 10 years back for my mother, who at the time was used to XP. Worry less about the distribution and more about the ease of the steps that it takes to do the tasks she wants to accomplish. I setup up an AWN dock with Firefox, OpenOffice Apps and VLC. In the end it kinda looked like ChromeOS does these days... I handled patching, updates, support via VNC. The amount of support calls dropped signficantly because it just worked. Change usually isn't the problem trying to memorize new series of complicated steps is.
KDE on Debian or any other distro tends to provide the most "XP like" user interface that I've seen. You just need to enable double-click mouse behaviour instead of the default single-click, add a few of their favourite apps to the desktop, and they're good to go.
If you're on an old system, you'll want to disable the file indexing daemons as well, as they can consume a lot of CPU and slow the machine down. If all the main user does is email and web browsing, they're not going to benefit from the indexing.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
..and that is coming from a die-hard Slackware user.
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I'm recommending a Chromebook to my mother in the same situation of web browsing and web-based email only. I like it for her since it's low cost, difficult to do anything software-wise to mess it up, and as close to zero maintenance as I can find.
Mint is an excellent team and the Debian based distribution is a rolling release distro (so fewer fresh installs for you) Also. LXDE is about as basic and standards compliant as it gets. Start menu, task bar, desktop icons, standard window manager, file manager, and with Network Manager, it's virtually a clone of the Win95/XP design.
I think you'll find that pretty much any solid distro (such as mainstream Fedora, Ubuntu and Debian derivatives) with either XFCE, LXDE or KDE (if you don't mind a lot of bloat) will accommodate most people fairly well, while being relatively easy to learn in a short amount of time. After all, I bet she spends most of her time in Firefox :/
I'm also interested in hearing what others recommend.
-PM
Windows 7 may work or even mac if you can take on the cost of one.
One hour and a usb live stick should be all that is required to let Grandma try out KDE, Gnome, XFCE, etc.
Let her pick, she is the one that has to actually use it after all.
Of course, end of life doesn't mean it will disappear in a puff of smoke. However, I do understand the risks associated maintaining an unsupported OS. I second the Linux Mint idea. I run a distro with Xfce desktop on my netbook and it's lightweight and would take grandma 5 minutes to learn where the browser and email applications are.
The reduction of Microsoft support shouldn't have a massive impact on your Mom, unless she has sensitive information stored on her machine or uses it for card purchases then the risk posed by malware is minimal. Like you I've been a user of Linux for around ten years and converted many people to using Linux. Sometimes this is not appropriate though and this is one of those cases.
If all she is doing is basic email and web browsing, why not use chrome os.
And yes, it is Linux
She doesn't want Red Hat. She doesn't want Ubuntu. She doesn't want Mint (well, maybe she does, but not the distro). She doesn't want Linux.
She doesn't want any form of Mac OS either.
What she wants is for you to stop yelling at her to replace her computer. XP's end of life just means she won't be getting those updates that reset her machine overnight. Your assertion that "a change has to be made" is completely false. Now, stop whining, try one of the cookies she just baked (they're delicious), and try not ruin this visit like last time.
I'm a huge fan of Linux Mint. They release fairly regularly and have several "sub-flavors" as well. I'd try something like Maya(13). That's their Long-term support version. If you're concerned that she'll have issues, download it & run it as a LiveCD ( the default ). If she likes it, it is set up for easy installation right through the booted liveCD. It's very easy to use & my almost 10 year old laptop has no problems with it. It actually was a faster/easier install than any Windows version & updates are (mostly) seamless. http://www.linuxmint.com/relea...
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/
Running a recent version of Linux Mint with the MATE desktop
http://linuxmint.com/
Create a big 4GB casper file on the USB stick.
Have it mount the existing hard disk and create shortcuts so they can get to their photos and stuff.
Maybe put on http://www.playonlinux.com/en/ to help get some of the old Windows software working under Wine
Bring a new stick with you over the holidays with upgrades.
They may or may not use it (they can just remove the USB stick and reboot to go back to their old getup), but at least you feel good that you've done "your part" without spending more than a few hours downloading and twiddling while you're there, and they don't go running off to all their friends complaining about how you came and now their computer is all different.
http://www.google.com/intl/en/... I've moved my mother from WinXP to a Chromebook three months back, and because she was already using Chrome beforehand, she took to it while hardly noticing it was different. I haven't needed to help her once to do what she normally does (email and web).
Just go with KDE. Of the big desktops, it runs the fastest and has best quality assurance. Also the UI resembles XP, which was one of your requirements.
So Debian with KDE or the Fedora KDE spin.
If she needs Flash, Google Chrome is pretty much the only option. If not, then Firefox is fine too.
If you have extra money, I would just go with a new Chromebook or a tablet.
Why? Because an unsupported operating system from Microsoft is a security problem.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I had a different situation with my aunt, 71, and her amazing ability to corrupt an OS in less than 2 months. Ultimately, what I did in her situation was to run a live CD distro of Ubuntu and that finally solved her situation. No disk writes, no problem.
My thought for your Mom is maybe try slowly introducing her to Linux via a live CD, and let her slowly get used to it. This will give her time to learn while still not having to immediately have a daunting learning curve ahead of her. Have her try using it an hour or 2 a day and this can give her the experience she needs to not be intimidated by something new, and if it becomes too much. She can stop, pop the CD and reboot into XP and get what she needs to get done in the short term.
I think its more of a concern of the machine's age. Its not going to run forever. Windows has changed so much that to many its unrecognizable. Why not look for something open source and that grams may like?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Support is support then. If you have to do a lot of hand holding for them anyways, then you might as well do it with whatever YOU the support person is most comfortable with.
Unix has the advantage that it can be remotely supported through a 2400 baud dial-up connection.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
My mother (who is a grandmother to my kids) runs Debian Wheezy with the XFCE desktop environment. The machine is fairly locked down and I've made quick-launchers for the apps she uses 99% of the time: Email, web-browsing, word-processing, music player and video player.
She's happy and I can administer the machine remotely, so I'm happy.
ChromeOS is perfect for Grandma.
Zoid.com
http://xkcd.com/934/
My 70 year old parents have been running Mint for four years, largely without incident. It's on a dual core Atom / 2G / 80G. I kinda want to trash that box, but the damn thing refuses to break badly enough.
Note that just about any (grand)parental use case outside of browsing fries this implementation. The sole "major" issue we've had is when Dad tried to get Picasa going on Wine. I'm sure it's possible, but it was far simpler for him to install it on his Windows laptop.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
I suggest Linux Mint 13 Mate. easy to adapt to coming from XP, and being a Long Term Support version nearly maintenance free. my wife is a parallel, she adapted within a couple days.
Just upgrade to Windows 8.1 and be done with it.
I would generally agree, as these force-Linux-to-relatives plans are always a bit cringeworthy. But in this case I have heard reports of the Windows 8.x GUI causing problems to ordinary folks too, so I would look into other platforms as well.
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If all she really needs is email and a browser, look for the simplest, cleanest UI you can find that provides that very basic functionality. Then configure the UI to looks like what she is used to - Windows XP.
Don't over complicate the transition with things you might think are cool, just keep it complicated enough to meet her needs, no more.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
--Albert Einstein
My grandmother's on a laptop with Slackware + KDE. No issues since I gave it to her, told her click firefox for internet, and showed her where KDE games are located.
(My mother, on the other hand, is quite happy with Windows 7. My step father stays somewhat current on technology, and handles most of her troubles).
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
My mother (who is a grandmother!) has been using Kubuntu for years now. No complains from her.
If I were to reinstall the OS today, I would consider Mint.
Goodbye Slashdot. You've changed.
Of all the distributions I've seen, Elementary seems to be the best in terms of UI. They've got a sensible set of human interface guidelines that are very easy to find and pretty much everything on there by default seems to work exactly how you would expect it to. I'm a big fan and am looking forward to their next release.
Should be a piece of cake. My mother was using Linux for a while on one of those little Dell netbooks they used to sell, and she didn't even know. Just gotta set up Firefox and Thunderbird and you should be good to go. Maybe Libreoffice too.
The old Dell netbooks had a somewhat interesting interface, which was quite easy to use (particularly for such a small screen) -- but if you're not buying a new machine I'd suggest Mandriva or OpenSUSE. Definitely want KDE -- once you start up, just set it to use the classic launcher, and she should feel right at home!
Emails laden with powerpoint? For a granny?
Are you kidding?
If anything, that's the best argument right there to dump Windows in general.
Run something else. ANYTHING else. Just run. Run quickly.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I would have done this for my mom, but she absolutely had to have slumlord software (she used Quicken Rental Property Manager). It was so kludgey even on WIndows, so I wasn't going to try it on Wine.
My Mother (now in her late 80's) has been using Linux and KDE since I gave her a computer back in the 90's. I had it dual boot for a while but finally gave that up when I spent far to much time fighting windows. By then she was comfortable with Linux and only needed one windows program that I was able to run under Wine.
Other family members have accounts on the same machine so they have net access when visiting ( less of an issue now with tablets and laptops) and I handle the admin details. I'll be visiting her this weekend and will probably spend less than an hour updating and checking logs. My last visit to do this was Christmas.
It's a no-brainer.
There are certain things in the kernel itself for Linux that my customers have found drastically confusing and I've found difficult to explain. So really I don't think Linux (or computers) are great for old people. Single purpose devices seemed more popular for a bit years ago like e-mail only devices but I don't know what happened to that big market.
Really? 5 years ago I left a live image CD in my wife's laptop accidentally. 4 days later, she complained that she "couldn't find the e, and please stop messing with my laptop". That was 5 years ago with a kindergarten teacher who hates computers and gets mad when they change the yahoo front page and "hide" things.
My mother is 75 and she has been using ubuntu for about 8 years. She wrote a book with all the instructions I gave her to send/receive emails, write docs, surf the web, print, scan. She NEVER used a computer before starting with ubuntu, so I had no transition problem to address, but on the other side I had to teach her EVERYTHING from scratch.
My mother who is 83 has been running Kubuntu turn since the Vista days. She has learned to trouble shoot her printer problems. Even grannies can learn linux.
Please, give her an iPad.
Less problems for you, less problems for Grandma.
Zero maintenance, easy to use.
This is no contest.
Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
No one is targeting that anymore!
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
Indeed, Metro is both horrendous and confusing. You can save Windows 8.x with ClassicShell or equivalents, which put a real Start Menu back, though.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Maybe not the answer you're looking for, but let your (grand)mother try an iPad. My mother (who is also a grandmother) loves it, and keeps telling me so.
Perl Programmer for hire
I don't want to hijack the discussion, but I noticed nobody mentioned anything about watching video streams on Linux. My mom, 85 years old and not an anglophone, uses her computer to read newspapers and watch online broadcasting TV channels from the homeland, here in the United States. Her laptop has win 7 on it but due to being 4 years old and only having a Intel core-2 duo processor, the effects of aging started to manifest themselves with a lot of freezing while she is on firefox, watching a tv show (in some sort of shockwave plug-in) and I noticed with the lot of updates pushed by micro$oft, the boot times are getting lengthy or feels liket hat to me. I want to be proactive and nip it in the bud before it blooms into a full fledged problem. I am also considering Linux but due to her extensive use of streaming videos, I can not decide which distro to go with, if any.
Suggestions ? I'm all ears...
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
I think its more of a concern of the machine's age. Its not going to run forever. Windows has changed so much that to many its unrecognizable. Why not look for something open source and that grams may like?
That is a very good point. I set up a new computer for my sister with Windows 7. Even that was enough to give her some issues. W8? Truly unrecognizeable. fuggidaboutit!
But her old computer was about to crap out, and it was A Windows XP Pro system that was - beyond all belief - not one update. It used a lot of programs that aren't in existance any more, and/or not compatible with W7. No compatibility mode, nothing - they wouldn't even install.
This is an extreme example of what people are up against. But still an example.
So I just sat down with her and explained that we'd get close to what she had, but 14 years is a log time in computer terms, so she'd have to learn a little bit.
Path of least resistance type stuff. Windows 7 allowed for it. W8? Not hardly.
To the topic at hand, installing W8 is not really a good option for a lot of people, especially if they don't have a touchscreen. Yeah, we can do this and that, and do something to make it looks sorta like kinda something. But it's such a huge step, and not even a step forward. It's learning almost everything new to do the same thing you were doing before. And some things end up arbittrarily different, like on my Wife's W8 Laptop, the integral mail program won't do POPMail. or only certain programs can be turned into desktop shortcuts.
And since whenever you set up or fix a computer for a friend or relative, you own every problem that happens afterward, I simply won't install or work on a W8 computer aside from my wife's touchscreen laptop. Linux or W7 is the only thing I'll support.
And I heartily recommend Mint.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
My mother does receive quite a few PowerPoint-laden emails. So far, Libreoffice has opened them all perfectly. My mother doesn't even know what "PowerPoint" is; she just knows that she gets cute slideshows when she clicks on the attachment.
Spoken like a true Windows-cluebag.
1) If you give them regular user privileges on Linux, they can't trash the OS.
2) The next version of windows is going back to the 'traditional look and feel' so forcing them to adapt is retarded.
3) We know that's you Steve Ballmer, go back to your forced retirement.
The sure as fuck can and will trash the OS. Whether they're just trashing their user profile doesn't matter. It'll require you to fix it for them.
No it isn't, and whoever told you that is an idiot.
I wish I was Ballmer, and so do you. He's got money out the ass.
My mother will be 80 this year. She's been on Kubuntu 12.04, loaded on a retired laptop, for the last two years and does just fine. Of course, everything she cares about can be done with a web browser. The occasional Word or Excel document can be done with OpenOffice. ( Hey, Ma? Is that Open or Libre? I don't recall at the moment ). She has poked around some other stuff, like playing mp3 of her favorite music. She hooks up her camera and pulls her latest pictures over. The machine is all she needs or wants and its free. She still remembers her Windows stuff and helps the other seniors with their computer based needs.
8.1 allows you to boot straight to the desktop.
A tech-illiterate user will see the desktop and the usual icons for browser, windows explorer, etc.
8.1 also has a visual start button so people will know where to click to turn the thing off.
The only real difference is the start menu. Coming from Vista/7, you do the same shit. Hit start, then type.
Coming from XP it's a bigger change, but it's a huge improvement and well worth the 2 minutes to learn how to use it. If your particular granny thinks otherwise, there are plenty of 3rd party solutions to restore a "classic" start menu.
She seems happy enough, her Firefox works the same and Thunderbird works ok for her.
I'm a bit of a Luddite myself - very attached to the XP-style interface, and not inclined to upgrade to the latest and greatest unless I have a reason. And I've been using Lubuntu for years now and am very happy with it. All of the things that spoil Ubuntu users, but with an interface that suits us crotchety old folks. Plus, it's designed to run fast and light on older hardware. Now get off my lawn.
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
My grandma wanted a simple computer to check her email and Google. I loaned her my Ubuntu netbook to try out. She loved it.
Unfortunately, the rest of my family decided they knew better and got her a giant, heavy Windows laptop which has proceeded to sit on her desk, collecting dust, ever since. Sigh.
Not popular hear I know, but my mom has an iPad. Best decision I ever made.
I don't know why people are getting their shorts all in a knot about the lack of patches for XP. If they were really concerned about security they wouldn't be using Windows at all. The newer versions of Windows are still full of vulnerabilities (something like 70% of Windows 7 malware also runs on XP). Windows (all versions) are vulnerable and are targets. Moving to Linux or Mac is the only solution if you are concerned about security. If not, just keep running XP.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
That presumes that Grandma's computer can even run Windows 8.1, which may not be the case if her computer is too old.
If the computer is so old that it can't run 8, then it's time for a hardware upgrade anyway just to use the modern web.
Windows 8.1 System Requirements:
- Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with support for PAE, NX, and SSE2 (more info)
- RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
- Hard disk space: 16 GB (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
- Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver
7 has the same requirements (and 8 runs better than 7 on the same hardware).
Vista has only slightly lower requirements.
Of course, this is a completely separate issue from an OS upgrade.
My mother who is 83 has been running Kubuntu turn since the Vista days. She has learned to trouble shoot her printer problems. Even grannies can learn linux.
Pics of your mom hitting up man pages and googling her own solutions and fixing her own printer or it didn't fucking happen.
Wednesday I got a visit from my neighbor asking for help with his computer. My heart sank. I had set him up with Mint 15 on his laptop and he was happily using it for the past 6 months. "What's wrong?" I asked. He said "something about "user profile service"". Oh, he means his desktop (Vista) so I fix it by doing a system restore. I asked about the laptop. "Its working fine, no complaints."
For this man to have no complaints, you have to understand what a dramatic experience computers are for him. He was a truck driver for the county. Never worked a day of his life at a computer, but his wife was a secretary. (She has passed on). So he tries to do stuff.. but any little thing that changes is a big deal. MSN shut down MSN messenger service and replaced it with Skype. That generated two visits from him - one the "little man" disappeared. And the new Skype icon that they installed for him. He even added his own MyFi to it.
And that is why I recommend Linux. It's never generated a support call to me from him.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I do hate when yahoo "hides" things? Have you recently tried to download an attachment in the webmail?
I've installed Linux on computers for various non-computer oriented relatives. None were my grandma but for the sake of this discussion they may as well have been. My annecdotal experience is this:
If they were previously using Windows it will not work. It's not a matter of Windows being more user friendly than Linux. It's just amazing the level of detail with which a non-computer person will memorize the interface they are used to. You can try some desktop manager that attempts to clone the Windows look. Even if you don't see the difference yourself your relative will. Non-computer people learn to use a computer differently. Where we learn a generalized concept of what the various parts of a user interface are and quickly recognize variations on the same theme they only memorize exact instructions. Click on this. It looks like that. Now click there. It's a horribly painful process and once they have learned it once they DO NOT want to do it again!
Otherwise they will be happy with Linux at least for a while. So long as their friends aren't using computers. If their friends are using computers then eventually one will show them some shiny thing (usually a silly game) which is Windows only. Then your relative HAS to have it. It doesn't even matter if there are a dozen equivalents that are only an "apt-get install" away. They want what their friend has and they want it now! Despite what one might think desire to conform to the herd is no less strong in the elderly than it is in a high school teenager. This is actually the one exception to that first rule, that they don't want learn how to do things over again. They will do so to learn Windows so they can run that stupid little app that their friend has. Then they will distrust you and always take the exact opposite of your advice for leading them down a different path in the first place.
For my relative where I experienced this it was silly time wasting Flash games. That was back when there was no up to date version of Flash for Linux. We even tried Crossover but it didn't work for everything. Thankfully now there is an up to date Flash for Linux. Even better Flash is dying. DIE DIE DIE Flash! As applications move from the desktop to the browser the opportunities to hit this problem are getting smaller. Maybe there is hope!
But for now... if they don't have friends (on computers). And they haven't already been exposed to Windows... then just about any easy to use desktop environment that "gets the job done" will do just fine!
If you haven't guessed, each of these scenarios represents one relative that I have attempted to put on Linux. So far I am 1 for 3. Better luck to you!
Then use KDE on Debian.You can overthink the solution if you will take time to puzzle it through.If she is happy,then use that.No need to get too fancy with the distro.
The Geek Hillbilly
Both my dad and my sister are running Xubuntu without issues. My sister is ok with basic tasks on a computer but far from a technophile and my dad knows almost nothing. His only use is really for fantasy football websites.
Neither really plays games - both just do web browsing and not much else. Honestly as long as there's a Chrome icon on the desktop many people wouldn't know they were using anything different.
Keeping that on their systems keeps me from the headache of supporting Windows and all the associated spyware.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
My grandmother is 90. She went from using nothing to using an iPad. She mainly plays solitaire, but also uses it to browse the web, read email and even Skype video calls with the multitude of grandkids and great grandkids (even 1 great-great grandson.) It didn't take much to get her comfortable with it. It is lightweight and a good lap pad will ease the weight even more. She even takes it to her many many doctor appointments to have something to do/read while waiting...
Sorry but what? Grandparents like me are the ones who built Linux. Why would we not know how to use it? You silly dumb kids.
You're probably thinking of great parents at this point and in fact my parents have no issues using Linux.
Email attachments are the bane of a smooth user experience for grandma.
She probably has a web mail account, and uses a browser to access it. She's going to receive all kinds of weird attachments from friends, and she will want them all to just work. There are Power Point slideshows, Word documents, spreadsheet files, movies, embedded images, links to images on mailing lists, flash animations, PDFs, MIDIs, and more. Any of these can be in several layers of forwarded messages, or stuffed into an .eml file. They can be messed up by a friend's email setup that does crap like "soft" line breaks-- breaking lines and indicating this by adding an '=' symbol to the ends of the breaks.
To get as much of that to work as possible, need lots of software. Libre Office to handle the Power Point, doc, and spreadsheet files. But that's not enough, need codecs so Libre Office can play whatever video or audio is embedded in the Power Point. Got to have Thunderbird for the .eml files (which still often do not open properly), and a PDF viewer.
Finally, a weak point of Firefox, and I think all browsers, is association. Firefox is quite poor at remembering which program to use to handle a particular file type. Often the user is forced to browse around in the file system. Grandma is not going to like having to slog through /usr/bin to find a suitable program, if she even gets that far.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:noobslab/themes sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install win-xp-theme tell her it's the new upgrade for XP..worked for me :)
Seriously. Why even bother updating if what she has works, and that's all she does with it.
Really????
Because Windows XP support is dropped next month and has for the past 10 plus years has been in a constant cracker/patcher battle because it is about as secure as a sieve is water tight. After next month there will be no more patches period. Mean while Windows Server 2003 which is based on the same exact source code will be getting patched for years more. These Windows Server 2003 patches will essentially be giving a security exploit guide to crackers and will leave millions of computers with absolutely no protection whatsoever. Running windows XP on the internet the day after support is dropped is like just asking to become some botnet masters bitch. THATS WHY!
Secondly the submitter wants to avoid this situation form ever happening again. If he uses Linux or other open source software he can much more easily migrate and mitigate issues like this.
And finally windows 8 will be very confusing to older relives that have only ever used Windows XP, which they already barely understand how to use. So moving them to Linux will be less traumatic because the only interface they see will be much more similar to what they are used to.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Please just admit that you have no understanding of the subject. I asure you that it is painfully obvious to those of us that do know what they are talking about how truly clueless you actually are.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
You have seen many recommendations already and I don't know much about your Grandma other than she likes KDE on debian. Personally I am not a fan of KDE because i find it has more issues than other window managers and there are some other quirks I don't like. I won't go into the details as it's mostly preference than anything else. If you are set on KDE because that's what granny is familiar with there are only two distro's I have seen that I like. For someone that wants something similar to windows with a smaller learning curve I can only recommend PClinixOS. I did'nt use to like them but recently it has become more stable and is starting to impress me. It is based on mandrivia so you cannot use debian or ubunto repositories unfortunatley. It also has a rolling release cycle so you dont have to reinstall everytime there is a new version. Personally I use linux mint with the cinnamon interface. It is based off of the new version of gnome but has a more standard interface which would be relatively easy for a windows user to get a hang of. Both distros have some unique features I have not seen in many other places. Before deciding which distro to install for you Granny I recommend you try each distro that has been recommended so you can get a feel for which one she will like.
Seriously, ask her. Show her a couple of options that you're willing to support, point out the differences from her old desktop, and let her choose.
I recommend something with an OSX dock-style launcher, perhaps Unity (with appropriate privacy tweaks) or Avant Window Navigator. I got a 70-year-old to switch from Windows to Ubuntu/Unity in under an hour, with very few follow-up questions.
It might also be helpful to give her a linux distribution that you use regularly, so any support you have to do in the future will be in a familiar environment.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Puppy Linux. First, get her using Firefox and Thunderbird on her XP machine, and use a nice family picture as the wallpaper. Then have her run Puppy Linux off a live CD, with the same wallpaper, and as long as she is doing web stuff and email, she will hardly notice the difference. I'm assuming it's an older machine but I have a 10 year old laptop that is running Puppy quite well. If she does have a problem, she ejects the CD and does her stuff in Windows. But pretty soon, she won't need that crutch, and you can get rid of the windows partition and always run from the live cd (or make it bootable from the hard drive).
I don't know why the focus is on Linux.
I got a Microsoft Surface (rt) for my Mom and she loves the thing. It gets a lot of negative press for not being a "real" windows but it fits her needs well (web, email, Netflix, solitaire), has a touch screen and keyboard. It's relatively inexpensive and moreover, Microsoft offers two years of training for $99 (one lesson per week). You can't beat that price if your grandma is interested in learning more about her computer (assuming she's somewhat close to a Microsoft Store).
But I install Ubuntu LTS for people migrating from Windows. For low end machines, (think Athlon XP area), MATE does a good job. For more recent hardware, I just keep Unity and move the close buttons to the right side.
Speaking of which, I wonder which OS RMS' mom uses? Or has he successfully talked her out of owning a computer?
And they could use Thunderbird or Seamonkey on any UNIX-like platform they please
Surprised that nobody mentioned PC-BSD - that's the FreeBSD for PCs that one could use.
My mother is 81, started using a computer about 15 years ago, first Windows 98, then 2000, XP and now 7. From 98 to XP I always used the same (classic) interface. When moving to 7 I tried to make it as "classic" as possible, but MS messed this up. I don't understand that they have absolutely no clue about older people having troubles moving to new interfaces. Was it so much trouble to keep the classic interface?
I installed Mozilla/Firefox and Eudora from the beginning, removed IE from the desktop. She still uses Eudora (which does not install in 7 if I remember correctly, but you can just copy the install folder from XP and that's all). I tried to install Thunderbird once, but she didn't like the buttons. That was years ago. Now Eudora starts to show signs of age as well, and I'm in doubt what to do. I don't like Thunderbirds layout.
I moved her from Office 2003 to OpenOffice and then LibreOffice without much trouble. I helped her get a new mobile phone recently, and I hate the fact that this phone will probably not be available anymore in three or five years, and then she'll have to get used to a different phone. So I'm going to buy a second one, just in case. Same with de house phone. How difficult can that be? Well it can! So another set that has to be doubled.
When this computer is finished and Windows 7 is done, and there is nothing left but a Windows 8 interface, I'm afraid I have to move her to Linux as well. Then I hope to find an LTS version that stays up to date for five or seven years, with a classic gnome interface or maybe something like mint. My goal is to keep changes as minimal as possible, but in the current world, this is a difficult task.
All my ex-Windows family members have been happy with Mageia4. Grandma has the most locked-down instance: an LXDE desktop with a pared-down menu and locked-down configuration. Her "favorite" win32/win16 apps are handled by Codeweaver's Crossover. Never had a problem or complaint from her.
My wife, OTOH, loves to tinker and will not stop. She get Windows7 in a virtual machine with her data saved to the underlying Linux OS, so "fixing"her computer is as easy as killing the broken VM and launching a clone.
The sibs and kids seem to be happy with Mageia4/KDE4 except one who is Apple-only.
Since they are all on the same distro, I maintain a local repo of customized configs and apps, so re-installing/new computer is easy if it becomes necessary.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
the subject says it all pick your favorite distro and LookXP to it.
There are probably a bunch of XP remote exploits in the hats of black hats, just waiting for the time when the vulnerabilities stop being patched. Installed base is stilll quite big, big enough for a serious worm infestation, which will spread to every XP that remains exposed.
You use that word... I don't think it means what you think it means. Also, the big fat goto fail fiasco shows you how much less secure OSX is than everyone thought. Just because it's based on something doesn't mean it hasn't been tainted by those that change it.
-]Phreak Out[-
For one, she will NOT want to install all the constant flow of updates, while CentOS (like upstream, as we say), is *stable*, and she doesn't need the GoshAWoWeeK3wl eyecandy crap so popular with teenagers.
Besides, you've been using CentOS for years. Who do you think is going to get called for tech support... and wouldn't you rather work on something you're *very* familiar with?
mark "read a zillion horror stories of folks doing tech support for their folks over the phone, esp, WinDoze tech support....:"
My mother or my kids Grandma (74) is a retired IBM programmer. She never asks for computer help.
I'm the defacto tech support for my church/neighborhood. I've installed Ubuntu on quite a few of these users, especially ones whose older machine was running XP, and they did not have the recovery disks to restore from, and the machine was crufted with malware such that it would take more time than it was worth to clean the system. In the first case, I gave them a 3-way ultimatum, spend $75/hr for at least 3-4 hours for me to clean the system, OR I would backup their docs, nuke XP from orbit, install Ubuntu, and life goes on OR they buy a new system with Win7/8 on it.. After seeing a LiveCD demo of Ubuntu, and my explaining to them that they would not be plagued with the endless malware and its slow down of the machine on Linux, they smartly opted for the "nuke/pave" option. Since then, word of mouth has spread and I've done quite a few more systems in the neighborhood. Quite a few of these were essentially unneeded upgrades, in that the user was not seeing any real slowness on the system due to malware, they just wanted their machine to perform better than it was under XP. These original "upgrades" were done using Ubuntu 10.04LTS as they were done in the 2010-2011 timeframe. Since the turd that is Unity/Ubuntu 12.04 (and above) I've switched to Debian Mint for these upgrades, as the "focus group" I tried on Ubuntu 12.04LTS with Unity were unanamous with their scorn for Unity. What with XP patches/"support" coming to stop in April, I figure with a little local advertisement on the imminent un-support for XP, I'll get a nice uptick in business doing these upgrades.. Mayhaps even enough work to hire some help...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
My mother who is 83 has been running Kubuntu turn since the Vista days. She has learned to trouble shoot her printer problems. Even grannies can learn linux.
Pics of your mom hitting up man pages and googling her own solutions and fixing her own printer or it didn't fucking happen.
His mother writes man pages you insensitive clod.
Maybe not the same way, it may be until MS releases a how-to in a form of a patch to still supported OS, and XP has same vulnerability.
Also, are you suggesting that all XP bugs have been found?
Don't forget WINE if she still misses some of her old software - it supports a lot more really old Windows stuff than Windows 8 does, apparently including quite a lot of ancient 16-bit stuff.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
ReactOS is not a solution - it's not even in Beta as yet. But the submitter was presumably asking about Linux in a generic sense - a free (as in beer, since Granny ain't gonna exercise her 4 GNU freedoms) UNIX-like OS, which one could install for her, and then never have to bother again.
So from that POV, granny may even be better off, since she won't have to worry about the drivers being liberated or unliberated or any of that stuff.
KDE is ok but not the best unless the user is a power user who likes a more custom desktop. Better XP alternatives are mint with cinnamon or xfce. Both seem a bit snappier and less laden with configuration options. If mum is running XP with the default Fisher price theme and the clouds-and-rolling-green-fields wallpaper the featuritis of KDE is wasted on her.
That said a bit of change is not always bad. If mum uses web for everything then chromebook is pretty classic looking and very simple to use and maintain assuming you are getting new hardware and want affordability. OTOH it could be useful to depart from the possibly stale XP era desktop style if mum is not too set in her ways. In my personal experience GNOME 3 has gone over fairly well. If us FOSS hackers hate it that often means it is something casual users will like;-) . With GNOME 3 you get something that reduces down to a simple launcher. In just a few minutes you can put mum's apps in the favourites dock, do a couple minor tweaks then show mum how to launch her app. Virtually everything us /. types b!tch about w.r.t. GNOME like hidden or missing config options or problems with multi desktop on multi monitor are stuff mum has no clue about and will never care to learn about. So GNOME is the choice I made and now they think all forms of MSFT windows suck.
Depending on the CPU and RAM configuration for the PC in question (if you are not getting a new one), then either Xubuntu or Kubuntu, with Firefox, Chromium, and LibreOffice. Works like a charm ...
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
My wife and I are grandparents, although a few years short of the 82 mark. I'm hesitant to recommend any flavor of Windows to anyone who just wants email, a web browser, and maybe a spreadsheet or word processing capability. I've had fair luck getting older XP users to transition to Zorin, which I believe may be intended for that purpose. Mint Linux, which I use, would come in a close second. But some Windows users just must have Windows, possibly because they think they're familiar with it. Being forced to use Windows 7 or 8 may change a lot of that.
Yep, that sounds familiar. I get those forwarded to me a few times a month, though most of the time they are military and not cute as he is an old Marine.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
those minimal requirements are B.S., they'll get you a system that would bog down on typical youtube page. Hard disk with a windows office product and typical software will need 20+ GB to actually run.
from experience, minimal win 8 machine needs 4GB RAM, 60 GB disk
Here you go VNC viewer for Chrome https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vnc-viewer-for-google-chr/iabmpiboiopbgfabjmgeedhcmjenhbla?hl=en
Chrome Remote Desktop https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-remote-desktop/gbchcmhmhahfdphkhkmpfmihenigjmpp?hl=en
And there is bunch of RDP viewers too.
Dude, is grandma we're talking about, not a guy spending most of his time watching porn sites.
Get her an updated antivirus and a firewall and she'll be safe while browsing for cakes recipes.
'nuff said!
Differences between how you act when some one is watching, and how you act when no one is watching, define who you are
My grandma has never used a computer until 2012 when I gave her an old laptop with Ubuntu, which she is still using. So I think Ubuntu is a good choice too.
My grandmother has used both of these OSes with success. Lubuntu is great since it is almost indiscernible to her from Windows Vista, which she used to have before the hard drive broke. She also used Meego Desktop, which is great due to its simple menu UI. However, we had to switch from Meego Desktop due to issues with Skype sound
Choose the most stable OS you are willing to support. "Stable" as of "Debian stable". I.e. you want an OS that will work even if you are away for a couple of months and will not need a day to update when you return
That's part of the reason I'm asking for opinions: I live--quite literally--on the other side of the world from her (I'm in China, she's in the US). My first thought was Ubuntu (with something other than Unity UI), but I wanted to see if there are any other options I might not know about.
this is a viewer to control a mac from a chrome book not to control a chromebook from a mac
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Dude, is grandma we're talking about, not a guy spending most of his time watching porn sites.
Get her an updated antivirus and a firewall and she'll be safe while browsing for cakes recipes.
Interestingly more resent studies have shown there is more viruses on religious themed sites then on porn sites as porn has become a large bussiness. Now which one is grandma most likely to look at? Secondly what makes you think grandma is more likely to keep her security software up to date then her OS?
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
WinXP had to be forcibly retired eons ago because seniors tend to solve problems by clicking on everything, and that how he installed too many toolbars and rootkits. Switch to ubuntu+gnome2 was fairly painless.
The KDE bouncy icon upon program launch can be changed in the cursor settings, no need to switch to Gnome over that.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
My grandma's fine with Ubuntu running Gnome 2, with LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox, SimpleScan, Shotwell, and VLC.
Twinstiq, game news
LXDE + Debian:
- Faster
- Smaller
- Simpler
- More like XP than KDE/gnome
Trust me, she'll like it better than KDE.
I set up a Linux Mint distro for my technophobic mom 5 years ago and she used it daily without any trouble.
What I did though:
_ Set a wallpaper she likes.
_ Remove all the icons/shortcut but the ones she really needs (Chromium, Skype, Rythmbox for music and a folder to all the movies i got for her)
_ Set Google, gMail and Youtube bookmarks in Chromium.
_ And most important: DESACTIVATE THE AUTO UPDATE ! Nothing worry a non-techy more that unexpected popup. And why update something that already works ?
Just setup Grandma (Mom) with Ubuntu Unity and 4 Large Icons on the sidebar. She is 89 and never used a computer but commented that it didn't look too hard. As simple as the setup is she is reluctant to use it. I teach windows to old people (146 on the list) and have 17 in Ubuntu class that started last week. Its a start. Unity fits the older gen thats never click the screen and its reliabile. The computer club has about 75% still using XP so I'm hoping the Ubuntu class grows real soon.
My parents are in the 70's and on the other side of the world from where I work. I set up a new laptop with Mint Cinnamon and pre-set up their email accounts etc along with desktop icons to start email, Firefox . They have adapted quickly as the GUI is as close to XP as anything modern I can think of. At the same time I gave them an Android tablet.
Given the limited range of things they do, a tablet can also do the job and can simply be replaced and log back into to get them up in running if the tablet fails. They have got the hang of it reasonably well and it lessened the learning curve when they got their first smart phone, also running Android.
Nevermind what the distro or the desktop environment is (well, within reason). So long as you can help her, even on the end of a crackly phone line, it's fine.
When installing for any non-techie, Desktop Environment aside, show them how to find their browser and applications, show them how to find the file manager, and install Synapse so that they can search for pretty much anything (for bonus points, set the Synapse shortcut to something simple like Super+Space). Basically, give them their starting points, and show them how to search.
Whether you choose to move your mother/relative/neighbour to KDE, Xfce, GNOME 3 or even Unity if you like (or even Windows or Mac at that) it has no bearing. Once you have set them up and you have installed the applications and configured all shortcuts, it's you who needs to know the system.
I support my dad on his Mac (he's die-hard Mac which is why I haven't moved him to Linux) piloting him blind because I know the system inside out, I know if he clicks in one place, I can predict the set of dialogs he'll see. I use Manjaro Xfce for Linux because it's install-once and sufficiently light. When setting up for a non-technician, I customize shortcuts my way, show them the ropes in person and hand them a cheat sheet based on my setup choice. If they mail me or call me, I know how to pilot them back to safety.
-- "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability." --Dijkstra
I've been running Slackware since 2001 -- earlier than that, if you count the dialup ISP I had starting in1994. Carry on.
I would have recommended the excellent Lindows/Linspire, then gOS, but, oops, they've been forced out of existence.
After that I gave up.
Kriston
Windows 7 is going to be less problematic transistion than a Debian based distro+KDE.
Xp to win7 is a lot more familiar that xp to KDE. If all she uses is a basic desktop, you can install a third party menu and the major difference with be a thicker taskbar. You can even set win7 to never combine taskbar apps and it'll be further like xp. With win7, other people can troubleshoot her problems.
Don't mix her with your ideological battles.
Oooooh!! Even grannies can learn. If you could give your arm a rest from patting yourself on the back for being so brilliant you can install an OS, you might notice that 1) lots of olds are not stupid about computers, 2) lots of women are not stupid about computers, 3) lots of old women know about computers. Grace Hopper did not become an idiot the day she got officially old.
Shocking as it may seem, I think we actually need one more Linux distro: a lightweight, bullet-proof simple OS that keeps itself securely up to date with little to no user interaction and provides what 95% of grandmas need: an icon to launch a web browser. Something very much like Chrome OS, but which can be easily installed on old laptops and features automatic updates (neither of which apply to Hexxah's builds of Chrome OS).
In absence of such a distro, if you know of a good guide for turning something like Linux Mint 13 (LTS) XFCE into the above, please post here.
www.gaiageek.com
It all about her needs and expectations.
When we finally convinced our grandma (now 93) to get a computer for email almost 10 years ago, we initially gave her an older mac thinking it would be easy for her.
However, she has basically zero computer experience so understanding basic UI interfaces is out the window.
However, over time she starting having problems because she couldn't understand how to manage overlapping windows.
She would accidentally minimize a window, couldn't figure out where it went and would open up a new one.
Repeat this 30+ times on a computer with 512MB of ram and you life becomes utterly painful... It would take like 3-5 minutes to open up a new window, because there was like 2GB of swap in use.
I tried to explain to her what she had been doing many times, but the concept of overlapping windows was just beyond her comprehension.
I ended up installing linux on it and hard coding x to run firefox at startup, bypassing a window manager entirely.
When she quits firefox, it kicks her out to the login screen.
That's it. No menu bars,no tabs,no background processes - just one big window.
In this case, KISS isn't just a goal - it's a requirement.
If it's humanly possible to switch to a different program, it will happen with her and she can't figure out what happened.
True, It drives any visitors crazy (until they read the sticky note that says use the guest account that brings up a conventional desktop) but it's has caused the least grief.
It would be very difficult to do something similarly with windows/mac.
I had looked around and there was a number of KIOSK type programs, but they wanted $100+ for the trouble.
All she cares about is her email. I setup the homepage as her email and it auto-logins in with the remembered password.
She doesn't even use Google for searches.
Don't ask me why The Cousins switched her to Google mail (which is a horrible choice because the UI changes every few months and I have to re-explain everything over again). I've tried to switch her back to the simpler thing I had but she doesn't want to budge...
If I were to start over again, I'd probably get her a chromebox (needs a big desktop screen) or maybe an ipad (if she could get comfortable with the whole swiping thing).
If you want a XP like experience, LXDE is really hard to beat (not to mention super lightweight).
Icewm is another option, if you want something that is even simpler with a similar layout.
The only problem with giving them Linux is a lack of support for some applications. For example, I had installed Arch on my livingroom PC for my family, and set it up so that the kids can just click on their picture to log in. My wife needed applications that are not well-supported by Wine, such as iTunes. I was able to find workarounds, but they weren't very elegant, and weren't things I could have my wife do. Taking iTunes as an example, I had to manually mount the volume, extract her pictures, and reset her photo roll. It became a very messy monthly project to have to do for her, and one of the reasons she would state she hates Linux. Also, she likes photo editing, and there wasn't an application/suite that she could find that she really liked and could edit easily. After 2 years, she finally won and we got Windows 8.1 for the family PC. If the person you are trying to help doesn't have a preference for applications, and isn't set in their ways for a certain application, any distro with a good graphical package system should work. Mint is very good for beginners, as well as Ubuntu. If you need to meet lower system requirements, take a look at XFCE and LXDE alternatives.
yes, you can add those things to list of about 30 other config changes and call the paper "How to Make Windows 8.x not so Much of a Pig"
Not an undertaking for your Aunt Minnie or Grandma
Have seen a lot a virus enter "by itseft" without even browsing the internet on older windows versions with no service pack, just by plug-in the ethernet cable and voilà ! I'm pretty sure it will happen for XP too, sooner or later....
If a lot of concepts change, wouldn't it be better if the interface elements looked different from what the person was used to? If the icons are the same as say Windows XP, I think people would intuitively expect them to work in the same way. But if they don't people would get more frustrated. Having that, learning a new system a whole level deeper would of course take more time and effort...