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USB Reversable Cable Images Emerge
Lucas123 writes: "A presentation released today by Intel revealed images of the USB 3.1 Type-C cable and connectors, which is symmetrical and will no longer require a user to correctly orient the plug. Initially, the USB 3.1 Type-C specification will support up to 10Gbps data transfer speeds. The Type-C connectors resemble those of Apple's Thunderbolt cabling in that they are much smaller than today's USB SuperSpeed connectors. The receptacle opening is 8.3mm x 2.5mm.The first iteration will have a 5 volt power transfer rate, but it is expected to deliver up to 100 watts for higher power applications in the future."
Reversable? Reversible.
Remember when you said that a symmetrical connector with pins on both sides was too expensive?
Well get stuffed. USB plugs were badly designed from the beginning.
Guessing the EU universal charging standard helped push this along. The symmetric plug is a nice bonus.
I don't want to sneak peak, but "5 volt power transfer rate" makes strictly NO SENSE. The "volt" is not a unit of power...
Damn incompetent journalists ...
One can idiot-proof anything, until along comes a bigger idiot.
Cars have had keys that can be inserted either-side-up and I've still seen broken and jammed car door locks and ignition cylinders.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Thanks for ruining a standard.
When can I 3D print some at home? It's the future after all, anything is possible.
and more adapters, and they're already deprecating them: 3A current at first, more later.
At 5 volts, 100 Watts is a current of 20 amps. That's a lot of current for such small connections.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
https://xkcd.com/927/
My other signature is a car
"The first iteration will have a 5 volt power transfer rate, but it is expected to deliver up to 100 watts for higher power applications in the future."
Why are we comparing a 5volt transfer rate to 100watts in the same sentence? Sooo confused!!
Why do they insist on putting a post inside the socket? They end up making both the socket and the connector more delicate. Instead of the connector being one solid piece and the socket being just an empty socket, it means the connector has to be hollow, and more prone to damage. The correct solution here was not to just make micro B symmetrical and cram more pins on it...
All you had to do was make something similar to Apple's lightning connector, not to compound the existing problems.
Seriously, why can't we have cables that fit into each other as well as be symmetrical. Oh wait, that's thanks to the patent system. At least this is progress and maybe we will have one standard for most types of application (not holding my breath).
"The first iteration will have a 5 volt power transfer rate, but it is expected to deliver up to 100 watts for higher power applications in the future."
That's a magnificent sentence there!
I have no idea what a 5 volt power transfer rate is. 5 volts is an electric potential. Power isn't transferred either, power is an instantaneous quantity, whose effect is work (or energy if you prefer). In a DC circuit, power is defined by the product of potential and current, meaning "5V" is meaningless as a description of power, just as "10N" is useless to define a torque.
Add to that the fact that 100W at 5V implies 20A implies that the 100W will not be available at 5V. 20A require enormous (by computing standards) cables.
I hope this is well past any April 1 silliness.
If this actually makes it to market, then halle-frickin-lujah. Not a moment too soon so far as I am concerned, to fix a major design flaw in USB connectors.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
From the report: file:///C:/Users/Mike/Downloads/SZ14_HSTS002_100_ENGf.pdf
Page 11:
- Power Delivery Capacity: 3A for standard cables, 5A for connectors.
- Enhanced power delivery options - Extended 5V current ranges plus USB PD
Page 13:
- Enabled higher voltage and current in order to deliver power up to 100W
- Limits to match cable capabilities
- Upper limit bound by international safety requirements
So theoretically it can push higher voltage, but not with the current cables.
"The Type-C connectors resemble those of Apple's Thunderbolt cabling"
Ahem, Thunderbolt uses mini displayport connectors which are not reversable.
You're thinking of lightning, the one used on iPads/iPhones/etc.
That gives a lowball 15 watts figure at 5 volts, which is pretty nice given I have a few 2.5 watt USB chargers around (and a mains-to-USB adapter that gives only 2.5 watts as well)
The worst case is a useful metric, it seems to define applications other than your specialty mobile computing device : e-cigs and other little things. The standard would be a nice 6x increase, if USB C is on both ends (and some minimal electronics handle it in the device)
You'll be able to power a meaningful amplified speaker with that level of power output.. Or going to 12V, you have enough for a class D amplifier that will fill the room with sound if connected to an adequate set of speakers. I do actually have an amplifier powered by a 12V, 3A power supply, use hifi-styled speakers with 90dB sensibilty and it's loud enough for movies, parties, whatever (sound quality and clarity ridiculously high as well).
Up ti 20V operation would be good for amps that take 24 volts but can work at 19V (laptop PSU) or less.
I hope it's made clear that you can still transmit data when power is at 12 volt, because you know, if you are going to output sound from a laptop it'd better be through USB audio.
So when you plug in a cable, the logo on the top is always correct. When it is a sideways plug, you are on your own. :)
a cable my GF might actually be able to plug in. Assuming she can identifiy the right hole of course. What we really need is a USB cable that works in the Ethernet port...
So how long will it be before Apple sues?
A USB standard without a quantum third state!
thin little thing inside to break. Complete fail. they just need to do a copy of the fraking lightning connector but made some technology advances to it. Apple does not have a patent on exposed pin connectors.
Apple got the lightning connector right, just give us a USB3.0 version of the fracking thing and put the craptastic mini/micro/and nano usb plugs to death already.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
FireWire is a keyed-connector. That doesn't prevent them from being plugged in backward. As I have done on more than one occasion where the socket was "loose", allowing the keying to not work, allowing the plug to be plugged in backward.
Which promptly puts up to 45 Watts of power into the data pins.
Which tends to fry the device.
Cables that can't be plugged in wrong because there IS NO "wrong" are best - just plug it in. Don't worry about how you're plugging it in, if it seems like it will fit, it's good.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
From page 18 of this document: https://intel.activeevents.com...
"The PD communication channel is an RF system:
- 23.2 MHz DFSK with a nominal deviation of 500kHz"
So the VBUS/GND pair alone can be enough to transmit data than USB LS (1 Mbps) and USB FS (12 Mbps). I see this a a very interesting solution: a standard to deliver negotiated power and mid range data rate using only 2 wires. If only the USB PD will allow a broadcast topology, I see a lot of possible applications...
The frequency of the power delivery is so high that an antenna could maybe be enough to transmit wireless data, without power. LOL
How about making the connector's conductors co-axial so that you can plug it in on any angle?
You know, through my life I think I get roughly 3-5 new connector types for every one that finally dies?
I'm up to 5 USB connectors, but I don't have a parallel port in the house anymore. Still have as serial port. My computers still have the dedicated PS2 style mouse/keyboard ports, but at least I don't have the big one anymore. On the other hand on the video side I have VGA, HDMI, DVI, D-Port, S-Video, coax, RCA, component, etc... Maybe I'll get rid of the S-Video soon.
I don't read AC A human right
Call me sloppy or whatever but that connector is a bit too tiny for my taste. One thing I like about regular USB connectors is that they feel solid and resistant to strain.
I have to set up my laptop at home everyday and that includes plugging all four USB ports with peripherals(mouse, keyboard, headset, external drive), if they are all tiny and fiddly I'll break them in no time.
Micro B can die. That connector design sucks that bad. However, I really hope that USB A still sticks around and the new laptops/desktops continue to come with those ports. I've got tons of keyboards, mice, joysticks lying around and I don't want to have to stock tons of A to C adapters to continue to use them with new computers. USB A is also pretty sturdy and can take tons of abuse.
The USB A connector is also highly ubiquitous. Now we are going to have 2 physically incompatible USB ports present on computers. That would be a first for the USB spec. Previously the connector only varied on the peripheral device, not the host. If you have an USB thumb drive or want to charge your phone off of some random computer you may have to take into consideration whether or not it has any type A or type C ports on them. I'm not looking forward to that problem.
So when you plug in a cable, the logo on the top is always correct.
This is true unless the receptacle was mounted upside-down. This means the top of the receptacle points toward the bottom of the device. I've owned a couple Dell Dimension PCs whose front USB ports were upside-down, and my Archos 43 Internet Tablet's USB port is upside-down. And you're right that sideways plugs can be a pain, such as the B receptacle on a Seagate hard drive enclosure or both USB receptacles (A host for controllers, micro-B device for debugging) on an OUYA console.
A USB 3.0 Micro B is 12.2mm x 1.8mm
That's about 22mm2, this new one is 20mm2, It's thicker at 2.5mm high so arguably less suited to thin devices.
Very very frightening.
- Chuq
They were big honking connectors with big fat cables, but at least you didn't have to worry about which end went where. Plus, every cable was an extension cable.
They aren't the only hermaphroditic connectors available.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The "I wouldn't design it that way" crowd rarely sound experienced or responsible. USB connectors, especially the full-size ones, have remarkably few problems:
1). The contacts are difficult to damage. Much more difficult than the old D-shell connectors. The D-shell did a pretty good job but if something got inside the D-shell, the pins themselves had almost no strength;
2). I always thought that a connector with no retainers was a clear negative. However I managed to overlook the power plug! Accidental disconnection of a USB device is pretty rare. When it does happen though, you reconnect and carry on. On a plug with fasteners, the fasteners are a hassle even with good thumbscrews. And it raises the possibility that if enough force is applied, the mechanical failure is going to be bad. Better to have an unfastened plug pop out well before then;
3). No custom cables. Yay!
4). No real limits on the number of USB ports. Not a connector issue of course.
5). So the major issue is, the plug can be reversed or accidentally plugged in to an e-SATA port. The latter is rare because e-SATA isn't standard on many machines. So if the plug don't fit, reverse it!
I will say that mini-USB seems to have more problems. Many connections are too tight and a cheapo connector shell can come apart.
But if you plug it in the other way round won't the phone charge the car's battery, and the 1's become 0's on the data?
The upside is you know you have Power Delivery, USB 3.1 and whatever just by looking at the connector. With a random USB type A, I know fuck all about how many amps it support or not even if it is USB 1 or USB 2. It is a benefit to have both USB C on host and device as well.
It will most likely be similar to POE.
After negotiation (at 5v), a higher voltage up to 48v is supplied, or at least a voltage that allows the device to remain within SELV (Safety Extra Low Voltage) standards. At 48v, you are looking at around 2Amps, which is what existing USB cables can do.
One other point. Although micro USB is rated for lots of insertions, the overmould is too big and allows too much leverage on the socket which is breakeing sockets (way worse than breaing the cables plug).
Apple got this right with the thunderbolt connector in that the strain relief is very small so it is more difficult to transfer force to the device socket.
46137
Just as with the lightning connector, they make a big point that the plug is reversible but NO mention of whether the socket can be used either way around!
Your girlfriend doesn't know when it's in the wrong hole and you're COMPLAINING?
A USB cable carrying 20 Amps? Not using 30 gauge copper it's not.
My personal experience tells me, that USB plugs rotate the same way a spinor does:
* Try to plug it in. Doesn't fit
* Turn by 180 degrees, still doesn't fit
* Turn again. "How the hell does this not fit into this port?!"
* Continue until 720 degrees are reached, plug in
Especially if you can not see the USB port
Get rid of Pull up resistors as a method to signal bus speed, this should be negotiated by logical handshake protocol, duh.
It'll still take three attempts to plug one in.
Worst. Signature. Ever.
It's called Lightning, and it's by Apple. Welcome to the world of good design, anrdoid users. Idiots.
I look first when I'm not familiar with the device.
Really? You look at your phone when plugging it in while dark with your night vision? You always spend the time to examine both the connector and the cable before attempting to plug it in? If so you are the ONLY one who does.
For a cable that is going to see as much insertion and removal as a USB cable you shouldn't have to look. Ever. It should be entirely doable by feel on the first go. I don't love the Apple Lighting connector but this is one thing it did right. It's easy to insert by feel. Much easier than any currently available USB connector.
Most of the complaints seem to come from people who have been using USB products for years and are still having orientation issues with it, though. I find that hard to fathom.
If pretty much everyone who ever uses USB regularly tries to insert the connector backwards then that is a problem with bad design. Period. If you find that hard to fathom then you really need to get a good whack with a cluebat.
Until relatively recently the multiplexing hardware to handle reversible cables without duplicating all the pins was expensive. Most designers probably just figured that low voltage/current cables that are rarely plugged in/removed so it wasn't worth spending the extra money making them reversible. Most people plug in their HDMI lead once and leave it there for years. Clamping force and signal integrity were always going to be the overriding factors.
But yeah, Firewire was pretty dumb.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I wish people would stop using data ports and data cables for charging things.
You LIKE using unnecessary extra cables? Personally I want a USB type cable that can charge any device up to and including a laptop and be able to send data as well with a connector that is robust and is symmetrical so orientation doesn't matter on insertion.
Reversibility is not enough!
To truly innovate: they should have a cylindrical connector that you can plug_in effortlessly.
With ridges in the plug of varying depths, that will automatically mate with the proper signal lines in the connector.
> Which promptly puts up to 45 Watts of power into the data pins.
That's why it's called "FIREwire" ;-)
So when you plug in a cable, the logo on the top is always correct.
That my friend is what you call an afterthought to mitigate a design flaw. It also does no good if the socket is installed upside down or if there is no clear orientation relative to the device where it is being installed. In the real world the logo orientation gets ignored often enough to make it of little value.
Marks to indicate keying are modestly useful for connectors that are going to be installed infrequently. That does not describe USB which were designed for frequent insertion and removal. USB should have been designed to be symmetric, with wide(er) initial insertion angles. Additionally USB should have been designed with higher power transmission capabilities in mind from the get-go. It's become a de-facto DC power connector but it could be SO much more useful if it could power something as big as a laptop.
USB was a big improvement over the older Dsub and PS/2 style connectors it replaced but it could have been better.
Apple got the lightning connector right, just give us a USB3.0 version of the fracking thing and put the craptastic mini/micro/and nano usb plugs to death already.
Nah, lightning connectors aren't perfect either. They require a special chip to determine orientation when that could have been done with wires making it palindromic. They can't carry large enough power loads (upper limit unknown but the wires are too thin to carry much more than USB). The strain relief on them could be improved. The housing could be more robust. They are more expensive to make and carry more licensing costs and are proprietary to Apple.
I do agree that the lightning connector does get some stuff right. The insertion is easy and reversible and can be done easily by touch. The contact is solid and relatively robust compared with the thin sheet metal approach of USB. Power is bi-directional as is hosting.
A D-shaped connector - instead of a square one - would not have cost any more, and would have eliminated a LOT of frustration over the past 18 years.
The USB B plug is D shaped and it's just as annoying as the A plug. In fact instead of 2 possible orientations to choose from I have 4 with the B plug.
That's the RCA connection. Composite is the standard, RCA is the connector. Component is technically RCA as well, but I consider it a bit different because you need 3 of them.
I don't read AC A human right
Ah, Randall Munroe, the Euler of our time.
--
It was Euler, by the way, who popularized the symbol Ï in its now-familiar usage.
My iPhone 5 connector is no longer reliable. Half the time it is plugged in and the iPhone does not get charged. Tolerances are tight on the tiny thing and its socket loosens up with time, allowing just enough play to disconnect if the phone is even breathed on. 2-sided, yes. Bipolar would be a better description.
I love how this compares this to "Apple's thunderbolt" connector when thunderbolt is an Intel spec... Why is everything Apple uses instantly their invention?
100PSI means a depth of 68m.
MagSafe patent should never have been issued. I have a ten year old water heater with a MagSafe connector. It falls out if it gets bumped instead of the water heater falling off the table and spilling hot water all over everything.