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Mathematical Proof That the Cosmos Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

KentuckyFC writes: "One of the great theories of modern cosmology is that the universe began in a Big Bang. It's backed up by numerous lines of evidence, such as the cosmic microwave background and so on. But what caused the Big Bang, itself? For many years, cosmologists have fallen back on the idea that the universe formed spontaneously; that the Big Bang was result of quantum fluctuations in which the universe came into existence from nothing. But is this compatible with what we know about the Big Bang itself and the theories that describe it? Now cosmologists have come up with the first rigorous proof that the Big Bang could indeed have occurred spontaneously and produced the universe we see today. The proof is developed within a mathematical framework known as the Wheeler-DeWitt equation. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle allows a small region of empty space to come into existence probabilistically due to quantum fluctuations. Most of the time, such a bubble will collapse and disappear. The question these scientists address is whether a bubble could also expand exponentially to allow a universe to form in an irreversible way. Their proof (PDF) shows that this is indeed possible. There is an interesting corollary: the role of the cosmological constant is played by a property known as the quantum potential. This is a property introduced in the 20th century by the physicist David Bohm, which has the effect of making quantum mechanics deterministic while reproducing all of its predictions. It's an idea that has never caught on. Perhaps that will change now."

35 of 612 comments (clear)

  1. If you make this a proof of God... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... I will punch you in the face.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    1. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by marcello_dl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you make implementation details about the initial condition of an universe proof that such an universe has no superior level, you are already so ridiculous that punching people in the face is probably the best you can do.

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      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    2. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by marcello_dl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's simplify.

      Conway's game of life creatures became sentient.
      They discovered they are made of cells.
      They said "Look, THE INFINITESIMAL CELL is always created from NOTHING. If things happens FROM NOTHING, there is NO NEED FOR A CREATOR, so THERE IS NO CREATOR, and besides NOBODY ever witnessed something different THAN THE DETERMINISTIC APPLICATION OF RULES. How smart are we?"

      So the guy at the PC said to himself "Thank you for nothing, guys" and went making himself coffee.

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      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    3. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by Your.Master · · Score: 3, Informative

      Many, many, MANY people have claimed that God wrote the Bible.

    4. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by dimeglio · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you make this a proof of God... I will punch you in the face

      Of course not. If He wanted you to believe, God would have showed you his birth certificate.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    5. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by Hentai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So the guy at the PC said to himself "Thank you for nothing, guys" and went making himself coffee.

      Well, what else were they supposed to do? They're DETERMINISTIC. Their entire existence is based on THE DETERMINISTIC APPLICATION OF RULES, right?

      So if the guy at the PC is butthurt, maybe he should have picked different rules or different initial conditions, right? Because once you hit 'run' you can't really blame the process for giving you its output.

      --
      -Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
    6. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Given the fact that I use the same logic to make the (in)existence of any God irrelevant to my living, I would actually applaud those game of life beings for coming up to the same conclusion. They can't observe me, and unless I start intervening (and then be observed), it makes no difference to them if I exist or not, no matter how much I bitch that they don't worship me or give me credit for their existence. I know I pressed the "Run" button. They have no way of knowing that. They can philosophise that somebody pressed a "Run" button, but there's no proof to it. And that somebody doesn't even have to identify as me. They can invent any number of "supernatural" gods that "inspired" them while I'm having that coffee - i.e. I'm not even at the computer, and I locked my screen - or I logged out of the MMORPG and its just the cloud applying rules in my absence.

    7. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by marcello_dl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nothing that breaks the rules can be proven as breaking them, from the inside. What if the exception is part of the rules?

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      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    8. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      If gods of our ancestors were so all powerful, why do they seem to have a messaging problem?

      Can create vast amounts of items but has trouble communicating his views to others? God is a Geek!!!

      Just be glad that he's not very good at messaging. Then God would be from Marketing. The Lord of All Creation coming from Marketing? Not that would be scary!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    9. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are absolutely correct, there is no creator, he doesn't exist inside their universe. Within the context of their universe, the existance or nonexsitance of this creator is essentially meaningless to them.

      I really think the clock in a black box metaphor for scientific theories is the best. If someone gives you a watch and you have no way to look inside.... you can make observations, you can model its behgaviour, you can make theories which make predictions.... but unless you can open it, any gears you postulate, no matter how accurately they may model the output, can never be proven to be what is inside.

      Until you can devise a test based on observations that seperates one theory of whats inside form another, then the claim of which predictive theory with equivalent results is better has no basis.

      So until a theory of a creator produces a testable hypothesis, its really nothing special at all.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    10. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've always been surprised at people who give consideration to the simulation argument, but none to God. If we're living in a simulation (which I think is decently probable, relativity and wave/particle duality being emergent properties of programming kludges to save cycles), then this simulation was created by someone. That someone would be omnipotent and omniscient with regards to this reality, exists outside of this reality, and created this reality. That's the definition of God. God is the Programmer.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    11. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are supposed to read it and think "people should act this way",

      Yes, with the genocide and the slavery and the misogyny and the mock executions of sons by their fathers, what a fine world it would be if we followed the moral example of the Bible.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    12. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by butalearner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's simplify.

      Conway's game of life creatures became sentient. They discovered they are made of cells. They said "Look, THE INFINITESIMAL CELL is always created from NOTHING. If things happens FROM NOTHING, there is NO NEED FOR A CREATOR, so THERE IS NO CREATOR, and besides NOBODY ever witnessed something different THAN THE DETERMINISTIC APPLICATION OF RULES. How smart are we?"

      So the guy at the PC said to himself "Thank you for nothing, guys" and went making himself coffee.

      Note that the guy at the PC doesn't care what happens to the sentient creatures, doesn't interact with them in any way after he starts the universe, and doesn't take any portion of the sentient creature with him for all eternity.

      You have it wrong, anyway. The vast majority of these creatures would say that they were Created. Some would simply accept this, having been taught so ever since birth, specifically with the knowledge that questioning their beliefs is one of the worst things they could do. Some others would look at the rules and realize that, had the rules been different, they would not have existed at all. They would see that as proof as a Creator and (through some further leap of logic) the rest of their beliefs, even though such a "proof" of the former does not in any way imply the latter. Still others would simply take Pascal's Wager and hope that their particular religion is the correct one.

    13. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by pitchpipe · · Score: 4, Funny

      So the guy at the PC said to himself "Thank you for nothing, guys" and went making himself coffee.

      Actually the guy at the computer decided to torture those little fucks for the rest of eternity for being so presumptuous, because he loved them unconditionally.

      --
      Look where all this talking got us, baby.
    14. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 4, Funny

      When people believe in gods that can't invent wireless camera phones

      Yeah, because if it suddenly started raining iPhones in 5 A.D., that totally wouldn't have turned anybody into gibbering lunatics.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    15. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That someone would be omnipotent and omniscient with regards to this reality

      These are very loaded words. What exactly is meant by "omniscient", for example? The capability to find out anything about our universe, or the ability to find out everything about this universe? Or the ability to predict either anything or everything that hasn't happened yet? At one point, you're assuming a being whose complexity would be greater than the complexity of its own creation. Much like, e.g., we understand everything about a crankshaft but fail to understand many of our own computer simulations. There are a lot of people (like me) who don't strictly denounce the possibility of an "external" (or "transcendent") creator or simulator, but aren't buying the "our universe (or human bodies, or whatever) is too complex so it needs a creator" nonsense.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "superior level"???

      Why not talk about about the great Matma, an inferior level, the mysterious Wumpus, or the Flying Spaghetti monster instead?

    17. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      , I could easily design a better and more just system

      For some value of "better." You have no idea what the Programmer's motive and design goal is. We simulate un-perfect worlds all the time. This could all be a game of World of Warcraft for higher dimensional beings. Azeroth is a pretty fucked-up place because if it were all peaceful and just the game would be boring. We would have no more understanding of the Programmer than my WoW character has of me.

      We simulate our own universe, too, to try to understand it better. This could just be a much, much more high-fidelity simulation of the Programmer's universe.

      It could even be an experiment to see if simulated beings, shown a perfect paradise and expelled from it could, left to their own devices, re-create that same paradise after being shown an example of perfect love and sacrifice. In that case, Jesus was the Programmer's avatar in this reality, and Christianity is true.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    18. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm never sure if I want there to be an afterlife or not. And I'm Catholic. I have faith in God, but I can never know.

      Really, what bothers me more than anything is the concept of hell. The exact nature of hell isn't really laid out in the Bible. It's described as being cut off from God and his goodness, permanently, which would be torment to us who were created by Him. But that doesn't tell you if it's really lakes of fire and demons with pitchforks (which was really just Dante's depiction that inspired everyone who came after), or if it's just some shitty shanty town...or if it's this reality we're in right now. But, if it is the whole 'torturing forever' thing, first thing I'm doing when I get to heaven is I'm tugging on God's cape and saying, "hey, can we get those people out of there?" I have no idea how I'm supposed to party forever in heaven with Jesus if there's even one soul suffering in hell.

      While I have faith in God, I also kinda hope I'm wrong and there's simply nothing after death, because I would rather have there be nothing for me than torture for anyone.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    19. Re:If you make this a proof of God... by JackDW · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmm. Experience suggests the intelligent beings would stare at the 0.0001% and either deny the evidence for it, deny its relevance, or try to destroy it. Inconvenient facts are inconvenient.

      You want a piece of toast with the face of Jesus? You already had a man with the face of Jesus, and look what happened to him.... What chance does some toast stand?

      --
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
  2. Quantum fluctuations != nothing by MadTinfoilHatter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is an abuse of the word "nothing", which is a universal negation "not anything". But quantum fluctuations in the quantum vacuum are something, and not nothing. The research might be interesting, but it does nothing for the question the philosopher is asking when he is wondering "Why there is somerthing rather than nothing?"

    1. Re:Quantum fluctuations != nothing by Ricyteach · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Physicists seem to have a curious definition of "nothing" (see Lawrence Krauss' book).

    2. Re:Quantum fluctuations != nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think most college students would agree that zero everywhere is a compelling solution for differential equations.

  3. "Proof" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is not a "proof that the universe could have formed spontaneously from nothing". As is common in popular versions of science (and often even in peer-reviewed articles by scientists), there is a confusion between modeling reality and reality itself. All this proves is that the current most accurate (in terms of making predictions that we can measure) mathematical model of reality does not contradict the claim that the universe spawned from nothing (and of course the term "nothing" here is tenuous at best--it certainly isn't philosophical nothingness, because something did indeed exist, i.e. a state in which quantum fluctuations were occurring, such a state is not nothing, it is something... perhaps by "nothing" they mean a vacuum, but again, a vacuum is something since it is still governed by laws). And let's not forget that though QM has a lot of predictive power as a model, it is still just that, a model.

    1. Re:"Proof" by uberdilligaff · · Score: 4, Informative

      Extraordinarily well said. The mathematical model is NOT the actual physics. It is only a very useful abstraction that happens to fit very well with the observed state of the physical world today. To the extent that the mathematical model helps us understand the physical universe, it is quite useful. Extrapolating the model back to its mathematical origin (the zero point) does not "prove" that the universe exploded into existence as an infinitesimal point at time 0. It should raise suspicions that the model might not be quite such a good fit to the conditions that existed at that time as opposed to the conditions that prevail today, 14+ billion years later.

      --
      Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain. --Friederich Schiller
  4. "Something from Nothing" is not science by Ricyteach · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In "God and the Astronomers", agnostic Robert Jastrow chronicles the development of the Big Bang theory, and how for decades many physicists resisted it; not because of data, but because it meant the universe had a beginning, which was at odds with their worldview (“The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be." --Karl Sagan). They recognized that if there was ever truly NOTHING, that science would never be able to explain why there is SOMETHING. The question of origins is outside the reach of scientific inquiry. I wish the physicists would stop playing in the philosophical and theological sandbox.

  5. Quantum Fluctuation by fadethepolice · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since the equations only express the properties of the universe, what exaclty did the quantum fluctuation occur in? This seems to be more of a confirmation of M-theory than that the universe came from nothing. What is the formula for the state directly before the fluctuation ocurred? It seems that state would be necessary to calculate what the fluctuation occurred IN. That would, to me, be more of a discovery.

  6. So "nothing" has quantum fluctuations by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So "nothing" has quantum fluctuations.

    I have zero apples, which one will produce an apple seed to grow a tree.

    Note: The article itself doesn't imply what the summary says, but the summary here makes the article seem like nonsense.

    --
    Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
  7. It's not proof of God by MikeRT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But it is proof that disproving Aquinas's argument that no physical phenomena can arise ex nihilo is currently beyond the capacity of science, mathematics and philosophy.

  8. Re:Nothing by jythie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, adding 'zero' to the number system was a pretty big deal about nothing.

  9. Get something about math proofs. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Math proofs are based on a set of axioms or starting assumptions. All the mathematical proofs are simply inevitable consequences of the axioms, that is all. Every mathematical proofs say, "this is consistent with your original assumptions". That is all, nothing more, nothing less.

    I remember reading about an European mathematician who set out to prove that Euclidean geometry was the only possible geometry. He came up with lemma after lemma, conjecture after conjecture, but no matter how hard he tried he could not prove non-Euclidean geometry could not exist. All those proofs, lemmas and work on conjectures formed the mainstay of the branch of non-Eucledian Geometry.

    So all the math proof tells you is, if you make a set of assumptions, cosmos could be created spontaneously.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  10. Re:Something from nothing? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Funny

    they cut & paste from the Web

    So that's why huge amounts of Wikipedia have gone missing!

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  11. Re:Interestingly enough... by bhagwad · · Score: 3, Informative

    At some point it becomes illogical to ask "what caused it" or "what comes before". Both these questions postulate the prior existence of time. If time itself came into being, then asking "what caused this" or "what happened before this" is meaningless since both questions imply a time based causation which could not have happened in the absence of time itself.

  12. Ex nihilo nihil fit by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This proof, while impressive, does not proof that the cosmos could have formed spontaneously. It only shows that the big bang was not the start of the cosmos and something early and yet unknown pre-existed it. The old axiom that "ex nihilo nihil fit" (nothing can come from nothing), still holds, because if there were nothing, no matter, no energy, no anything, then there couldn't be quantum fluctuations to spontaneously form the universe.

    As such, the big bang must not have been the start of universe, but probably very, very, very close to the start of the universe.

  13. Platonic Ideal Science Fiction... by rgbatduke · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sheesh. I mean, I'm a theorist. I love theory. But let us not lose sight of the difference between metaphysical speculation and "proof". All that has been done is that it has been shown that -- subject to a whole slew of prior assumptions (premises, axioms) that may or may not be correct (and that cannot be verified or sorted out either way) -- that a particular kind of "empty" Universe could consistently give rise to a vacuum fluctuation that grows a la big bang. Of course, there is a big difference between an "empty" Universe subject to all sorts of quantum rules and nothing -- as nothing tends to come without anything, including a set of rules quantum or otherwise.

    So let me summarize the argument. If the Universe already existed, complete with a set of physical laws, but just happened at some point in meta-space and meta-time to be empty, then if those probably non-unique laws had parameters within some almost certainly non-unique range, then mass-energy could have poofed into existence in a big bang as a quantum vacuum fluctuation that grew. It is proven that all of this could have happened.

    And we are now precisely as knowledgeable as we were before. We already knew that it could have happened because it did. We still know absolutely nothing (more) useful about the state of the Universe before the bang, because the bang erased the prior state in a blast of cosmic entropy and all of our ability to make inferences comes from weak extrapolation of observation of its visible state "now" (that is, into the distance-mediated past). We cannot use the "proof" to make any useful predictions that can be tested (either verified or falsified).

    Don't get me wrong, I think it is a lovely result, and it may prove useful in some indirect way by providing an incentive to reformulate quantum theory in ways that are at least consistent with the big bang, just as quantum theory ultimately proves useful when discussing things like black holes. But it is still theoretical metaphysics, not physics.

    --
    Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.