Switching From Sitting To Standing At Your Desk

Hugh Pickens DOT Com (2995471) writes "Chris Bowlby reports at BBC that medical research has been building up for a while now, suggesting constant sitting is harming our health — potentially causing cardiovascular problems or vulnerability to diabetes. Advocates of sit-stand desks say more standing would benefit not only health, but also workers' energy and creativity. Some big organizations and companies are beginning to look seriously at reducing 'prolonged sitting' among office workers. 'It's becoming more well known that long periods of sedentary behavior has an adverse effect on health,' says GE engineer Jonathan McGregor, 'so we're looking at bringing in standing desks.' The whole concept of sitting as the norm in workplaces is a recent innovation, points out Jeremy Myerson, professor of design at the Royal College of Art. 'If you look at the late 19th Century,' he says, Victorian clerks could stand at their desks and 'moved around a lot more'. 'It's possible to look back at the industrial office of the past 100 years or so as some kind of weird aberration in a 1,000-year continuum of work where we've always moved around.' What changed things in the 20th Century was 'Taylorism' — time and motion studies applied to office work. 'It's much easier to supervise and control people when they're sitting down,' says Myerson. What might finally change things is if the evidence becomes overwhelming, the health costs rise, and stopping employees from sitting too much becomes part of an employer's legal duty of care. 'If what we are creating are environments where people are not going to be terribly healthy and are suffering from diseases like cardiovascular disease and diabetes,' says Prof Alexi Marmot, a specialist on workplace design, 'it's highly unlikely the organization benefits in any way.'"

Comments

I'm not going to stand for this

[LQ]

Not with my knees.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Paradise Pete]

I once had a job that involved a lot of standing. One day the boss brought in some shoes for us to wear.
As we put them on one guy said "What's the difference? These are just regular old shoes," but it turned out they were actually orthopedic shoes, and so he said "Well then, I stand corrected."

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Oligonicella]

While ranked funny, I'm on board with you. I have arthritis in both knees. Standing for any length of time is excruciating.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[geekoid]

but if you stood more to begin with, would you may not have arthritis.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Shinobi]

Which means you are an exception.

In fact, alternating between sitting and standing is generally a good way to keep healthy, unless you're one of the exceptions due to actual injuries/diseases.

For normal healthy individuals, it's good for prevention, and for fatty Blob McSlob's(who are fat of their own making, not actual valid diseases etc), it's a good way to mitigate health problems.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Anonymous Coward]

So I hear you saying that it is more healthy for me If I get up periodically and go outside for a smoke break. Right?

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[iamhassi]

Not with my knees.

You're right. I'm guessing these office workers have never been waitresses or had a job requiring 8 hours of standing because if they had they would appreciate being able to sit instead of standing. Standing prolonged hours causes varicose veins and can cause knee and joint pain. Sitting just causes a fat butt. Solution is to get up and walk around every so often. Most of these office workers have regular scheduled breaks, they need to use their breaks to get up and be active.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Bacon Bits]

I have a break program on my system at work. it tells me to take a break every hour. I get up and walk a few laps around the building. I find my energy levels are better, I'm given time to think about what I'm working on, and I feel a lot better overall.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Jmc23]

Learning to stand properly is what got rid of my arthritis.

One should view arthritis as the body doing exactly what it has been 'designed' to do. One then only needs to figure out how one is screwing up and activating systems that shouldn't be active.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[slashmojo]

Sitting just causes a fat butt

Not to mention a bit of DVT. Of course all things should be in moderation (except the DVT) and that is why adjustable standing desks (something like this) are a lot better IMHO. At regular intervals just switch from sitting to standing at the touch of a button and carry on working - problem solved!

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[almitydave]

I used to have a standing desk at work until I took an arrow to the knee.

Seriously, I understand the benefits, but I just can't sit still for long periods of time anyway (RLS), so it's not like I'm stationary. You can take my office chair when you can pry it from my cold, dead... well you get the idea.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Darinbob]

And many of those workers who stand all day definitely have troubles doing that after 30 years. And surprise, they still get arthritis even without the desk chairs.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Anonymous Coward]

Sitting just causes a fat butt.

Sitting overly much can cause many health problems, but of course you couldn't be bothered to research this issue before opening your mouth.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[Anonymous Coward]

At this point it's too late you judgmental prick. Standing doesn't reverse arthritis.

Re:I'm not going to stand for this

[dizdar]

But then when would they have time to browse facebook?

Well

[rossdee]

Your feet would get sore

Re:Well

[Xipher]

As opposed to your ass?

Re:Well

[LurkerXXX]

No. Tall chairs exist. We used them all the time at our benches in the research labs. Part of the time you stand, part of the time you sit. Whichever is comfortable and works with your current activity.

Re:Well

[gbjbaanb]

Some progressive offices have desks that can be raised or lowered with a little motor, so you can sit and then stand when you feel like it.

Typically the guys in the office would sit all morning and stand for part of the afternoon.

Re:Well

[cplusplus]

As someone who has been standing at a desk for the last 2+ years (programming), I can attest that a really good foam floor mat helps a lot. They make some specifically for standing desks that are quite comfortable. Standing on it in your socks actually feels pretty good. It does take a couple weeks to get used to standing most of the day.

Re:Well

[Kevin by the Beach]

I agree 100%... I will either wear socks, or my running shoes while standing at my workstation. I also remind newbies to occasionally remember to shift their weight onto the balls of their feet. (standing flat footed with your knees locked isn't good)

Re:Well

[cyberchondriac]

No. Tall chairs exist. We used them all the time at our benches in the research labs. Part of the time you stand, part of the time you sit. Whichever is comfortable and works with your current activity.

Personally I'd love this. I always prefer to sit "up high" anyway, like a tall "bar" or restaurant stool. Sitting all day long is definitely not healthy but at least with these it's easy to go back and forth.

Re:Well

[siriuskase]

It's called a work bench. Time was, engineers always had a workbench with a tall chair called a stool as well as a desk which was used to stack free magazines on.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

I love adjustable desks, and am going to get one when I start updating my home office. They make a huge difference....I like the Swedish Kinnarps desks, but I will use whatever I can find, even Steelcase.

Re:Well

[dwillden]

Even the skinniest ass has more padding than our feet do. Almost as if that part of the body was designed/evolved to be sat on.

Re:Well

[Elros]

I've actually looked for one of these for use in my home office. Anyone have a brand or model that they have found good?

Re:Well

[Zontar The Mindless]

We have such desks in our downtown office, and I am hoping to acquire one for my home office this weekend.

Re:Well

[Zontar The Mindless]

I highly recommend the padded house slippers that they sell at IKEA. A pair is good for about a month of daily wear, and costs about 20 crowns.

Re:Well

[Zontar The Mindless]

...and costs about US$3.00.

TFTFM. :D

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a GeekDesk at home. Absolutely love it. I sprung for their most expensive model, with a 78"x31" table top, and 300+ lb lifting capacity (didn't need that much lift though). With my lower back issues, it has been worth every penny. I spend probably 90% of the time standing, but my wife likes to sit when she uses the computer. It has 4 programmable preset heights, so we each have our own sit and stand height programmed.

My only concern is how long the motors will last. I hope the thing is still going strong in 15-20 years, but we'll see. I've had it about 18 months.
http://www.geekdesk.com/

Unfortunately at work, all they'd give me was this crappy Ergotron thing that you have to manually raise and lower as needed. It's not even strong enough to stay at the standing height, so I have to stick a box underneath to hold it up any time I stand. Garbage. If they'd let me, I'd be willing to spend my own money to buy the smallest GeekDesk for my cubicle. But nope.

Re:Well

[Darinbob]

So let's look at what other primates due during their working hours. Guess what, they sit down and lie down a lot.

Re:Well

[FrozenToothbrush]

Nice, I've often thought about a standing desk. Have you noticed any positive effects? More energy, muscle tone?

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Not sure how standing up would solve anything...

[Anonymous Coward]

...when the main problem isn't really sitting down, but being STILL in the same position hour after hour.

Im on a wheelchair

[Anonymous Coward]

You insensitive clods!

Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonderful. This is the perfect excuse to give workers even less space. We already are dealing with getting less space as companies move into "open" environments (wonderful how the top level execs still get offices though...)

But now companies can use this as an excuse to squeeze employees together even more. Someone please explain to me why companies are ok with making employees feel like they are stuck in a roach motel, but are not cool with them telecomuting, especially when a lot of folks can do their jobs from any location.

How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a computer repair tech and I can't imagine sitting most of the day. In a 9 hour shift, I am usually standing for 8 hours of it. I'd be pretty unproductive if I was only working on 1 or 2 computers at a time in front of me. I work on at least 5 computers at a time, constantly shifting up and down my bench. Think of all the time it takes for hardware test scans to run, virus/spyware scans to run, windows updates to run. But yet if you miss clicking "OK" the computer is sitting idle.

There's a great deal of time all 5 computers I'm working on are scanning, so I'm walking over to test machines to test customer returns (like hard drives and memory) or doing data backups. Plus I have to check in parts that come in and ship out online orders. Then I have to place orders for new parts, answer the phones, and keep the place neat and tidy. There's also breakdown/stripping/sorting of e-waste that comes in for recycling to do if I'm idle.

I'm sure I do about 10 times the amount of work in a day as a tech who sits at a desk all day.

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Anonymous Coward]

Physical work, maybe. Unless you think that solving problems mentally does not count as work?

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Jarik C-Bol]

I imagine he means a tech in the same line of work as he is, who's workflow involves sitting in a chair watching scans finish.

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Anonymous Coward]

With all do respect what do you think I do? Computer repair certainly does involve mental work. What causes this blue screen, why can't this registry value be updated, where is this file loading from, why can't I get on the Internet? All of this requires focus and concentration to figure out, all of which I can do standing just as well as sitting. In fact, it's easier to walk over to a working machine in a clear area and Google® for answers, than to try to sit at a desk with another monitor or screen crammed in somewhere to lookup the answers.

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you do both, but there are jobs (like programmers) than are almost entirely about solving complex problems with the mind. Repairing PCs just doesn't involve the same level of problem solving.

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Rossman]

This just sounds like you're a developer that for some reason thinks he's better than a computer repair tech. Just because the problems are different doesn't mean they don't require some complex problem solving skills.

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a number of patents. I don't just follow steps that have been well-tested before; I actually have to solve new and complex problems. Replacing faulty RAM sticks and such just doesn't match up.

Re:How do you get any work done sitting down?

[Zynder]

Thanks for your insight, Dr. Cooper. How's that String Theory working out for you?

Walking yes, standing no.

[evanh]

Doing some full stride walking every day is the bees-nees!

Standing isn't going to give you anything more than sore feet.

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[sdoca]

Agreed. I can walk for 4-5 hours and my body isn't sore, but an hour of standing is brutal.

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[BreakBad]

We have an employee with a treadmill at his desk. He walks and types. Of course his emails usually read something like, "Hewmy Jammmmes, I gto taht TSp reprt dne!".

Its a new form of crypto...with different levels, depending on the level of difficulty the treadmill is set on:
HILL128 - Hilly Level 1
MNT512 - Mountains Level 5
DED1028 - Death Race Level 10

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[Anonymous Coward]

Until you publish a peer review paper with some finding on the matter I'm afraid I'm going to have to dismiss you as a troll.
 
Go take your non-scientific opinions on the matter elsewhere.

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[artfulshrapnel]

I mean, both is probably best. I walk at least 2 miles a day on my commute, and switched to a standing desk a few months ago.

As first-hand anecdotal evidence, I can attest that switching to a sit/stand solution instead of sitting all day helped *immensely* with long term back problems, which I had honestly thought would be part of my life forever. I used to have to take pain pills to sleep at night, and only a few months after switching to a standing solution my back pain is almost completely gone. It's not totally better yet, but it's still receding and the doctor I spoke to thinks that it's lingering damage from the time spent sitting.

The current plan is to see how things progress, maybe add in some exercises to improve my posture a bit more and un-do some of the sitting damage. Six months ago we were discussing physical therapy, drugs and surgery to make the pain go away... seems like a big point in the standing desk's favor to me!

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[Jmc23]

Standing posture is the hardest yoga asana to master and carries the most benefits. If all you get is sore feet you have no clue what you're doing and should learn.

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[antdude]

How about a treadmill type?

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[david_thornley]

Or you have problem feet (some of us do) and are distracted from other things by the pain.

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[Jmc23]

I used to be flat footed. That was a bitch. Coupled with the shin splints climbing a flight of stairs was horrible.

The body is a tensegritic puzzle. If you're missing tension in one area, where did it go?

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[Anonymous Coward]

Take your pretentious attitude and smug outlook somewhere else asshole.

Re:Walking yes, standing no.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your problems are NEVER going to go away. Even if they really do. You're a dope whore now. You'll always hurt just enough to get that hydro scrip or oxy if that's your preference. If you try to break free, your body will make you hurt so you'll chomp down a few more pills. Enjoy your new slavery, at least you won't care....until your supply runs out.

This would go over so well on IT

[Draugo]

Seriously, I'm a programmer at least in part because I want to be as comfortable as possible during work. It's not a huge reason but it's a reason non the less. If I in any way liked the idea of physical discomfort during work I would have gone to do construction or something else instead of programming (the pressure and responsibility as a programmer/designer in a small or medium sized company is insane, you really need to like this job to do it).

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[Johann Lau]

"Fuckin' A!"

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[thesandtiger]

I do development and I work a standing desk (and for a couple of years did a walking desk when I worked at home). I'm actually vastly more comfortable not just at work now but in the rest of my life since switching:

- issues I had with sciatica went away
- I am in better shape/have more endurance & energy
- I sleep better
- I used to feel like shit if I went on a 10 hour coding binge (sluggish and exhausted) but now I just feel pretty much normal

It's only uncomfortable at first, but once you figure out good shoes to wear, good anti-fatigue mats to use and good posture it's much MUCH more comfortable (at least in my experience) and makes your non-work life better as well.

At my office we have 5 people in our engineering team (some IT, some developers) who use standing desks and a few more who are considering making the switch. The oldest stander is me (42) so it's not just something 20-somethings can do.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[Grishnakh]

Where is this? Because I want to stay far away.

I'm starting to think I need to look for an entirely new profession. First they stuck us in open-plan work environments where I'm utterly incapable of concentrating, now they want me to stand up all day? Go ask a supermarket cashier how comfortable that is. Pretty soon I'm going to be totally unable to produce anything at work.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[pr0fessor]

I used to work dsl support in a call center. I was in my early 30s and had recently had back injury just sitting all day irritated it. My co-workers thought it was funny seeing me pace around my little cubical like a caged lion at first. I would put my foot up on the divider and stretch, do squats, and a bunch of other things. They transfered a girl to the team that did some kind of pilates and soon the entire team was doing desk exercises. Occasionally they would refer to us as team yoga, all I can say is our team had the best moral and the best numbers.

Now that I'm in my 40s and I work from home I still do my desk exercises and I am seriously considering getting an elliptical for those hurry up and wait moments. {hurry up and wait is the worst.. don't you have a million other things to do... sure but none of them can be done until this is completed}

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[rl117]

I've done 12 hour shifts in working an industrial production lab, going around a huge site to collect samples and then working standing in a lab testing them, worked sitting and standing at a lab bench and at various bits of expensive lab equipment all day while doing my MSc and PhD, and now I'm working full-time at a desk as a software developer, developing multi-platform open source imaging software in C++ and Java (openmicroscopy.org).

I've found working at a desk all day to be the most singularly unhealthy activity I have ever engaged in. Doing a job which requires varying degrees of physical activity is much better. You aren't stuck at a desk for the entire day in a single position. After doing this for the last two years, I've ended up with RSI, muscular problems and suffer from chronic pain in various places. "Comfort" and sitting at a desk are about as far apart as I can imagine. Physical work doesn't automatically imply physical discomfort.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[geekoid]

It's ok. If you need silence to concentrate and work, they probably don't want you, and neither would I.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[thesandtiger]

Maybe I was unclear - we have an engineering team of about 15 people, 5 of whom work at standing desks. It's not required.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[Grishnakh]

It will be pretty soon, when more managers hear about this. Is this in the US or somewhere else?

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[Anonymous Coward]

People who delude themselves into believing they can work better or the same with music on, or people talking, etc. are doing just that: deluding themselves. Study after study has shown this; the human brain is all too easily distracted, but some more than others.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[david_thornley]

If you don't understand that noise is distracting and affects concentration (even with people who say they can concentrate anyway), I don't want you. Somebody who does understand that will tend to get better software guys, and they'll be more productive.

Re:This would go over so well on IT

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it moral for your company to boost your morale like that?

wait what ?

[flufythedestroyer]

You need a research,reports and studies for this ? really ? Whats next ? Am I gonna learn that using too much salt on my food is bad for my health as well like those precooked food at supermarkets ? /sarcarms. Seriously, standing is not better as well. You just have to move more. I do have a good job for that which is a computer technician so I move around all the time, get under desk. True I do sit but not all day long for all week. The "secret" is to find a way to move from time to time...and do exercices out of work. if you can do that, you got more chance of being in better health rather than the person who doesn't.

Re:wait what ?

[oh_my_080980980]

Thank you! No one wants to look at the actual problem - inactivity. You need to move around. But the problem is you will cut into productivity because that means people need to be away from their desks. This is nothing more than an attempt at a silver bullet. It won't fix the problem but it will give the appearance that they're doing something.

Re:wait what ?

[Johann Lau]

Well, spend the time away from the desk for thinking about the problem? I find I need that for coding sometimes, where going for a walk and arranging the various pieces in my head is actually more productive than staring at the code for another 30 minutes. You gotta give inspiration a chance to occur! I don't mean distraction, doing something else that you have to concentrate on - but stepping back and taking in the bigger picture. And fresh air and some movement really does help the brain get going, too.

Of course, liking what you do, and taking pride in doing it well, is kind of a must. But where that is the case, I think a "long leash" actually improves productivity. And where it is not the case, even fixing people to their desks with super glue will not make them work harder... remember the "boss key"? :D

Re:wait what ?

[geekoid]

You should probably make an attempt to understand how science works.

HInt: it's not 'It seems obvious so don't bother to test it'

victorian clerks..

[gl4ss]

had to move around.
they had no choice, really. they had to ferry around small slips of paper and cards.

they had a boss who sat behind a desk in a comfy chair though, smoking a cigar while his secretary ferried him scotch.

my reasoning is actually that all desktop work chairs just suck ass. a 10 dollar one piece plastic chair beats all of them - your ass doesn't sweat, you can lean on them, they don't roll out under you - they don't roll around their axis(this one is particularly annoying because WHO THE FUCK really needs a rotating chair?? that rotation and roller wheels are the worst fucking idea ever. I mea, who the fuck comes up with that idea and thinks it's a good choice for a worker who keeps constantly pushing on buttons on the desk and moving an object around the desk? ? fix problems for the 99% by removing the wheels, rotation and smelling cushion and let the hipsters have the stand up desks).

the ten dollar seats just get bad rap because they don't have an upmark of 1000% at the dealer. just 700%. they last a lot longer than usual office chairs too. and the constant redesigning of the offices causes companies to stock up on cheapest(still very expensive to buy but cheapest option) shitty chairs because hey who would use an old chair with a new desk. end result is that people start thinking that standing up all day is the way to go...

Re:victorian clerks..

[Scutter]

The whole hierarchy of office chairs has always baffled me. You have three general classifications of chairs (and they're usually labelled as such at the store): Executive, Manager, and Secretary. The Secretary chair always sucks. It's the cheapest model, doesn't usually have arms, has thin or no padding, and it's flimsy. The Manager chair is the most comfortable. It's ergonomic, has adjustable armrests, lumber support, etc. The Executive chair, which should be the most luxurious, is almost always the most uncomfortable but it's always covered in slippery leather. Other than that, it's straight-backed, never high enough for the desk, and heavy.

It makes no sense that the degree of comfortableness that you are allowed to have is actually a class system in a modern office. I get that a business owner wants to control costs and expensive chairs are expensive. But wouldn't you want your employees to be as comfortable and healthy as your budget will allow? Why is a secretary less deserving of arm rests or lumber support than a manager?

Re:victorian clerks..

[JoeMerchant]

But, everyone aspired to be that cigar smoking boss, so everyone getting "comfy" chairs was progress, right?

Re:victorian clerks..

[Vyse of Arcadia]

I inherited a cushioned rolling chair when I inherited my desk, and it was awful. It was heavy and bulky, which is a problem when you share a small office with three other people. And jesus christ was it uncomfortable. When I couldn't take it anymore, I found a simple wooden chair unused in storage somewhere, swapped it out, and never looked back. It's comfy, I can lean back, there are no arms to get in my way (who needs a chair with arms at a desk anyway?), and it's small enough to comfortable slide into my desk when my officemates need more space.

Cheap chairs ftw.

Re:victorian clerks..

[Anonymous Coward]

victorian clerks had to move around.
they had no choice, really. they had to ferry around small slips of paper and cards.

I think you (and others) are mssing the point. The "Victorian clerks" poprtrayed as an example had high desks and stools. This allows easy transition from sitting to standing and back as you feel. I worked 15 years like that, at a drafting table with a stool (w/ padded seat and arms) ,and I can assure you it was far more comfortable than doing engineering sitting at a low desk in front of computer screens like I do now.

Re:victorian clerks..

[Anonymous Coward]

they had a boss who sat behind a desk in a comfy chair though, smoking a cigar while his secretary ferried him scotch.

Like you, I too get all my history from the movies.

Re:victorian clerks..

[bws111]

I think you're over thinking this. Executive, Manager, and Secretary are just the names for styles of chairs, not some kind of hierarchy or (current) intended use.

Secretary chairs, I believe, are not named for the person currently known as an administrative assistant, but for the piece of furniture called a secretary. A secretary is a tall cabinet, the lower part is drawers, the upper part has glassed doors to display knick-knacks, china, whatever, and in between is a fold-down panel that makes a desk. This piece of furniture would be prominent in a house. When a person wanted to write a letter, etc, they would drag a small, lightweight stool to the secretary and fold down the desk.

In the days when most people worked in factories, the only person with a desk was the manager. Hence, a 'manager' chair is basically any desk chair.

The executive chair is mostly to show that the person sitting in it is important, hence the leather.

Re:victorian clerks..

[drinkypoo]

my reasoning is actually that all desktop work chairs just suck ass. a 10 dollar one piece plastic chair beats all of them - your ass doesn't sweat, you can lean on them, they don't roll out under you - they don't roll around their axis(this one is particularly annoying because WHO THE FUCK really needs a rotating chair?? that rotation and roller wheels are the worst fucking idea ever. I mea, who the fuck comes up with that idea and thinks it's a good choice for a worker who keeps constantly pushing on buttons on the desk and moving an object around the desk? ? fix problems for the 99% by removing the wheels, rotation and smelling cushion and let the hipsters have the stand up desks).

Well, I use my rotating and rolling chair all the time. Besides the value to sysadmins, which I have found to be significant, it's pretty much mandatory for anyone who has a filing cabinet right next to their desk. I also sweat in plastic chairs, maybe because I am fat. Still, it's true. Actually, I found this to be true way back when I was a child, when I was not fat. That didn't really happen until Jr. high.

The only office chair I know of which is worth one tenth of one shit is the Aeron. It's still one of the most ergonomic chairs around in spite of not actually having been designed to be particularly ergonomic. The goal was to create "the office chair of the future" and obviously in the future, your chair should be fully adjustable. As it turns out, there's many different body types and sizes of human, so full adjustability is what's needed for ergonomics. I literally sit down in this chair when my back hurts. The combination of good posture and good lumbar support is unbeatable. And I bought my Aeron used, so I didn't get completely mauled on the price. And it doesn't have cushions to stink up or make you sweat, either.

If you spend a lot of time sitting in an office chair, you want an Aeron. I don't care how much markup they have. Of all the shit that startups wasted their money on back in the dot-com bubble, the chairs were the least senseless.

Re:victorian clerks..

[Ogive17]

We have 'L' shaped desks and the high traffic carpet. If someone comes to my desk to ask a question, I use the wheels to back away from the computer and the rotation feature to turn and face them.

It would be quite annoying if our chairs did not have these features.

Re:victorian clerks..

[aaarrrgggh]

I'm 42 and I have been using a balance ball at my desk for 5 years. Love it; by its nature you are always doing small movements, posture is better, and my back problems have pretty much gone away. The pièce de résistance is that I can bounce on it to stay awake during boring conference calls.

The only times I have problems with it is when I am doing high-intensity focused work on the computer and start to lean and cheat support by leaning over desk and resting more of my arms on the desk.

Re:victorian clerks..

[jbmartin6]

No no no the "task chair" has no arms and is small and flimsy. The manager chair has arm rests, etc. I always took this to mean that the arm rest interfered with tasks getting done and thus it was OK for the manager to have them.

Re:victorian clerks..

[Sedated2000]

A coworker of mine had one. Then one day I went to get a soda from the break room and while passing by his cube I heard a loud bang. His chair had exploded and dropped him square on the floor. At least they honored his warranty and mailed him a new one.

Re:victorian clerks..

[Anonymous Coward]

I always figured that it was based upon quantity that a company would have to purchase. An office will have hundreds of general office workers, several managers, and only a few executives. You can splurge more on the executive model because you only have to buy one or two of them.

Re:victorian clerks..

[Dachannien]

The Executive chair, which should be the most luxurious, is almost always the most uncomfortable but it's always covered in slippery leather.

Clearly, the Executive chair is just for show, since he'll be out at the golf course all day anyway.

Re:victorian clerks..

[geekoid]

The more you know.

Victorian clerks

[mutherhacker]

Of course Victorian clerks stood and moved around a lot more. They had to go bring the file from the file cabinet or go refill their Ink etc. Go light the candles on the chandelier etc. There was a bunch of different things to be done away from the desk so perhaps someone who moved around so much would consume more energy if he actually sat.

Pseudoscience at it's best.

[Lumpy]

There is zero real proof of this. Where is the 20 year study comparing the office workers to the shop workers? This is as bad as all those GNC studies on how their products make me healthier.

Re:Pseudoscience at it's best.

[Anonymous Coward]

I basically wait until there's overwhelming scientific consensus before caring. People with an agenda will seem to always cite studies they agree with (like Fox News citing studies that say marijuana is more unhealthy than previously thought, and skipping over the flaws, or some pro-marijuana guy citing studies he agrees with while also skipping over flaws in the study itself), and many studies have numerous flaws or things that weren't considered, so it's best to wait until the science is settled.

Re:Pseudoscience at it's best.

[geekoid]

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/25/...
http://www.vichealth.vic.gov.a...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...

Need more? I suggest :
http://goo.gl/CNwr5t

You'll have trouble...

[Anonymous Coward]

...standing without them!

It is indeed healthier simply to stand

[Anonymous Coward]

And, it doesn't matter if you are moving much at all.

Sitting in almost all but perfectly designed, custom fit chairs has all kinds of direct physical effect on your body including circulatory and respiratory changes.

Here are only a very few of my sources:

Circulation in general: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094039,

Blood pressure: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/70/4/533.full.pdf

Back problems: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9383867

Re:It is indeed healthier simply to stand

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a bit of going from one extreme to the other. I changed to standing about 2 years ago and generally feel better than sitting, but I can't help thinking that the extra wear and tear on my knees, feet, etc will catch up to me eventually.

My prediction is that this will be studied and at the final medical recommendation will be moderation.

Not ergonomic

[Anonymous Coward]

The straight chair that we all use for sitting, is not ergonomic. You put too much pressure on the back of your thighs and their vascular system, and it skews your blood pressure. People with thin legs and lack of supporting muscle are more susceptible to health issues from prolonged sitting.

Re:Not ergonomic

[DriveDog]

Yep. Tilt the back and the seat backwards, shift much of that weight resting on thighs to back. Straighten legs out and rest feet on something tilted towards you.

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see you do better.

Cynic

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

>> Advocates of sit-stand desks

Sorry, I read that as "vendors of sit-stand desks"

Seriously, does anyone still work at a tech job crappy enough where they care if you sit, stand or bounce around on a pregnancy ball all day?

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Jarik C-Bol]

Indeed. On the rare occasion I have to man a register at work, within an hour, my back is spasming, and my legs are stocking up and getting stiff. I can work all day out on the floor stocking, lifting heavy cases, kneeling, getting up, up and down ladders with no problem, but standing in one place for an hour is brutal. I suppose if I had to do it more my body would adapt to standing still eventually, but it would be a miserable transition.

I'd love to give it a go

[Chrisq]

I'd love to give it a go ... but I think in trainers rather than work shoes!

Re:Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space..

[Jarik C-Bol]

Quit complaining and get back into your work cupboard you!

1 year now and it's been great

[profBill]

I got a standing desk about a year ago and it has been great. I have a pretty small office and manage to fit in a standing desk and a small, "sitting" desk. Coding/writing when standing is actually pretty good, but you do get tired at which point you sit down for awhile. I have a simple setup with a laptop so if I sit I can still work. While standing you just naturally move around, shifting your weight etc. so you get some constant movement in. Some tips:

• get a good, solid standup desk, one you could lean on. There's a lot of cheap crap out there. Mine is a 4'x3' wood top, lots of space. Something like this but not this
• get one that's adjustable. There are all kinds of weird things out there (motorized for example), but mine has a simple crank to set the height. It isn't clear for awhile what the height should be and you should be able to adjust it.
• get a standing mat. I just picked one up a Sears like this but you can get one anywhere. This made standing a lot easier. In the beginning, my feet hurt much more than anything else

By the way, I'm 57 and have had operations on both knees. Not a problem.

Re:1 year now and it's been great

[Lumpy]

Why do you need a stitting and a standing desk? just get an engineers or draftsman chair and sit at standing level when you need to.
Or go all out and buy the power up/down desks. I prefer the tall stool chair that way I can change it up as I need.

Re:1 year now and it's been great

[profBill]

Good question. Actually I had the sitting desk already so it was kind of natural to keep it .For example, when I'm meeting with people it is convenient to sit and talk.

However, I have to say that when discussing code, it is really nice to be standing as it is easier to gather around the screen with others and look at things. I'm a prof, so this is great for teaching a couple of people at once.

Also, I had some extra money at the end of a semester and bought a muvman stool. It is really great . The center post sits in a stiff ball-and-socket joint at the bottom and allows you to move around while you kind of sit/lean. Only thing is the price.

Classroom

[Tokolosh]

This should be extrapolated to the classroom. In particular, to boys in elementary and middle school.

Re:Weak

[Kuroji]

Give me omnipotence and I'd be happy to take care of that for you.

Open both eyes, and quit squinting!

[DriveDog]

I don't know about you. I can walk at any speed all day long, and it feels great, but standing still gets uncomfortable quickly, and my back starts giving me problems after just a few days of that. I still have minor foot issues left over from working in a retail department store for just a couple of years, 30 years ago. So no. No standing desks for me under any circumstances. You're welcome to one. I'm going to be up walking around every 30 minutes and frequently pacing around the cube farm to think, but I'm going to sit while I'm not walking. And I expect a decent chair to go along with a decent monitor. What we all really need is a half hour of walking every 2 hours. The productivity of the sitting time would increase at least enough to offset the time walking.

Re:Open both eyes, and quit squinting!

[MrNemesis]

Same here - standing gets very uncomfortable very quickly for me, but I can happily walk up hill and down dale until the cows come home.

I no longer smoke, but I still take fag breaks at work just to give me a reason to stretch my legs and have some mental downtime once every hour or two. Pacing around is great for thinking, but for doing I need to be sat down.

Re:Open both eyes, and quit squinting!

[geekoid]

" I can walk at any speed all day long"

can you walk ab 100 MPH? huh? HUH? I thought not. :)

Don't stand still

Re:Open both eyes, and quit squinting!

[Anonymous Coward]

He nor I can walk 100mph but I can sit on my ass and roll 100mph all day long in my car and still get work done.

Don't sit still!

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[MightyYar]

Yeah, standing at the register all day was rough on my body at 16... I can't imagine how my [ahem] slightly older frame would deal with it. Back then I was a "stock boy" and was much more comfortable doing the manual labor than the standing-in-one-place routine of register duty.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[DerekLyons]

And the links to your peer-reviewed studies are... where?

Important detail

[Katatsumuri]

You must also grow a mustache, otherwise it only changes your sitting-down-still problems to standing-up-still problems.

Re:Important detail

[Anonymous Coward]

Howto: Stand perfectly still (Uncyclopedia)

I recently switched. couldnt be happier.

[nimbius]

I switched to a standing desk last tuesday, and found my company supported the idea as part of our wellness initiative (I got free fruit for deciding to do it.) The first two days were kinda rough, but afterwards it just becomes a normal part of your day. What i was surprised to find was im way more refreshed at the end of the day, and find it a lot easier to communicate with people who are at my cube than if im sitting.

A few other coworkers do a 'part time' standing desk by elevating their normal work surface using cardboard boxes from the datacenter. im also told a stress relief mat helps make the transition a lot better. Either way, I dont see myself going back to a sitting desk anytime soon.

Bad Example...

[mighty7sd]

It's a bit narrow-minded to compare any work being performed today to work that was performed 100 years ago. There were almost no knowledge workers then. Factory work was the norm. We have advanced to using our brains more which requires concentration and less movement distracting us. By all means, get up and move around more, but I think looking to the past is faulty.

Re:Bad Example...

[Jmc23]

Looking to the past when our bodies were healthier is faulty?

Focusing on the mind is destroying our bodies, and for what?

Re:Bad Example...

[Zynder]

When did the Amish start using the Internet?

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[swillden]

...when the main problem isn't really sitting down, but being STILL in the same position hour after hour.

This is why it's not a "standing desk" but a "sit-stand desk". The idea is that you alternate between sitting and standing, changing position every hour or two.

Re:Weak

[Applehu Akbar]

If our bodies are intelligently designed, it would be by Microsoft.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[StripedCow]

You could install a threadmill behind your desk.

I switched from sitting to standing.

[DamnRogue]

I switched to a standing desk about 12 months ago. I'm a pretty fit and active guy, but I have a variety of knee and back problems from years of martial arts training. Particularly, I have patellofemoral arthritis ("theatre knee") that gets worse when I keep my knee bent at 90 degrees or less. On a friend's advice, I built a standing desk and gave it a whirl.

The first two to three months sucked a lot. I could only stand for 1-2 hours at a time before my knees or feet were too sore to continue. I had to adjust the ergonomics of my workspace, particularly the height of my monitor, to avoid neck irritation. However, my lower back felt great for the first time in years. I kept going.

Somewhere around the 90 day mark, all my aches and pains vanished. My feet stopped getting sore. My knees no longer hurt. My back feels better than it did when I was 20. My hip flexors are more mobile. I can now on my feet all day with no problem. Standing around at parties doesn't make my feet or back sore. I also lost 5 lbs with no effort because of the increase caloric expenditure.

I'd recommend a standing desk to anyone with the willpower to make it through the transition. It's well worth it, in my opinion.

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[swillden]

I'd recommend a standing desk to anyone with the willpower to make it through the transition.

And I'd recommend a sit-stand desk to anyone at all. Even if you don't stand all the time (I don't), being able to spend part of your day standing will make you feel better without discomfort, in fact being able to switch back and forth is more comfortable than sitting.

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with this.

I'm a software developer and I switched 2 years ago. It took some time to adjust - mostly feet getting tired. Now I wouldn't go back, I find sitting for any length of time uncomfortable. Standing with a properly organzied workspace is key. With the right ergonomics, no back pain at all. I can sit when I need to give my feet a break (a few minutes) and I move around a lot more.,.. I would never go back to a sitting desk job.

AC

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Likewise - you will want an adjustable desk or tall chair for a few months so you can take a break; but after a hundred days or so I found it far more comfortable than standing. I also doubled up on the floor mats, that helped quite a bit.

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[antdude]

Is it easy and quick to adjust the vertical levels if one were to sit and stand a lot?

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[swillden]

The desk I have is motorized. Push a button, takes about five seconds. Another option is to get a desk that is always positioned at standing level and a tall chair. That seems cheaper and more convenient but there are some downsides. One is that you have far fewer options in chairs than if you're getting normal-height chairs. Another is that changing the level of the desk is difficult, which is particularly problematic if the seating gets rearranged regularly.

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[antdude]

Ah nice. I don't like sitting on high chairs. :(

Re:I switched from sitting to standing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the info. I have a similar story and the way you explained things hit me just right. I will give it a try. - Hope it is still working out for you

Not Okay.

[fellip_nectar]

No, it's not okay because if they make me, if they, if they make me, me stand then I...I'll...I'll have to, I'll set the building on fire...

Standing/Walking desk

[thesandtiger]

When I switched from working in an office to working from home for a couple of years, I went to a standing desk and then to a treadmill/walking desk.

Took me about 3 days to get used to standing all the time - as in, able to do it without feeling too much pain in my feet at the end of the day.

The walking desk took about a week to get used to, at first I could only read emails etc. while walking, but after I got used to things I was able to do 4MPH indefinitely while doing basic stuff, and about 2.5MPH while doing stuff that required a bit more precision with a mouse etc. Put it at a 5% incline and it's not a bad workout. My best day was 20 miles.

I wound up losing some weight - 10 lbs. - which wasn't strictly necessary but wasn't a bad thing. My productivity took a hit at the beginning but got back to normal after the first couple of weeks. My energy level went up dramatically after the first month and my general sense of well-being was much improved. Even better, issues I was having with sciatica went away and I would sleep much better.

At my current job I am at a standing desk all day and while it's not nearly as active as my walking desk, it's still working for me.

Some research suggests that it isn't that much better for you (or at all better for you) than a sitting desk, but my personal experience defies that; I'd recommend trying it for a month - commit to it - and see how it works for you.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps this individual is unique, and has no peers.... didn't think of that did you huh?

Weird chairs

[Applehu Akbar]

Does anyone still use those radically uncomfortable Scandinavian chairs where you sit on your knees? Back in the Seventies, having one of these was synonymous with being the office crank.

Re:Weird chairs

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think those chairs are bad, did you know the Japanese sleep directly on the floor with nothing more than a freaking wooden mat to lay on? As if that wasn't bad enough, they don't even allow you to sit down to take a shit- you have to squat. To top it off, they don't put any of those handicap rails next to it to hang on to! Shitting down the back of your leg when you're a grown-ass man has to be one of the most demoralizing things I've endured. It was so bad that when I was drunker than fuck I didn't even bother- I just shit my pants. Same thing was gonna happen anyway. Posting AC for obvious reasons. It could be that the Japanese are the most uncomfortable culture mankind has ever seen.

Weak? No, it is not.

[luis_a_espinal]

Even completely small things are unhealthy for the human body. The human body is absolute garbage, and it's yet more proof that "intelligent design" never happened.

I don't believe in intelligent design either, but you are reaching waaaay too far up your rear when building criticism against ID. Saying the human body is absolute garbage is as dumb as saying God created the world in 7 days.

A person can buy a Maserati, but i said person doesn't change the oil and let water and particulate go into the gas tank, the car will turn into garbage. The car wasn't garbage. The owner was a careless fool at best (and a f*tard at worst.)

Human bodies are actually quite resilient, tuned by evolution to be cursorial predators. Capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways most animals would die. And that was already a fact before we eve invented clothing. Put the mind next to the body (which is what makes us human) then we have clothing, and a whole new set of capabilities emerge. There are plenty of historical footnotes of soldiers going on long after their horses, donkeys and oxen died of exposure.

We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds. We die of infections beyond a certain magnitude, similarly to most other Eukaryote organisms. If our bodies are garbage, so are the bodies of all Eukaryote organisms. I guess the only Eukaryote whose body is not garbage is Superman, but he is an illegal alien from Krypton so he doesn't matter.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[Anonymous Coward]

We can also recover from wounds that similar animals die of, have a comparatively high tolerance for trauma and can maintain a reasonably fast pace for longer than most other animals. Unlike most other animals we can also eat on the move since we can carry food with us and are intelligent enough to do so.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[NotFamous]

If our bodies are garbage, so are the bodies of all Eukaryote organisms. I guess the only Eukaryote whose body is not garbage is Superman, but he is an illegal alien from Krypton so he doesn't matter.

Actually his papers did finally come through. However, he is still on the no-fly list.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[geekoid]

"Capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways most animals would die"
yeah, you walk naked into any frozen area and see if you live linger then any animal the, or desert.
Live like a polar bear, or seal, or dog, or cat. You would die.
We couldn't live anywhere without clothing.

The hip 'design' is horrid, as is the lower back. The eyeball is backwards, and so on.

"A person can buy a Maserati,"
Yes, no imagine you take a look at that car, and the trans mission gearing is backward, and the wiring for the lights goes all over the place before getting to the lights, .
Anyway, comparing human bodies to actual intelligently design things is stupid.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlike most other animals we can also eat on the move since we can carry food with us and are intelligent enough to do so.

Squirrel!!!

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[iamhassi]

A person can buy a Maserati, but i said person doesn't change the oil and let water and particulate go into the gas tank, the car will turn into garbage. The car wasn't garbage. The owner was a careless fool at best (and a f*tard at worst.)

clearly you have never owned a Maserati if you think they are not garbage.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know, man. I'm a med student, and after taking gross anatomy (human dissection) and medical neuroscience, I'm convinced the human body is really poorly designed.

Our knees suck, our eyes suck compared to cephalopods' eyes, our heart does exactly the wrong thing during a heart attack (positive feedback loop to failure), our digestive tract is overly complex, our hepatobiliary system seems setup to fail... and don't even get me started on our embryologic development.

However, all this pales compared to our nervous system. It's a miracle that insane rat's nest of connections works at all. For example, most people know that the CNS is crossed (so left brain controls right side and vice versa). No good reason for that, but where it gets really batshit is that all the different modalities in the brain cross in different ways and in different places. So, for example, a lesion on one side of the spinal cord will cause loss of fine touch on that side of the body, but will cause a loss of pain/temperature sensation on the OPPOSITE side. Whatever.

About the only truly impressive system in our body from a conceptual/operational standpoint is our adaptive immune system. That's badass.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[thegarbz]

I can't agree with your view on the digestive system. Yes it's complex, but there are many animals out there with far more complex digestive systems yet with very little tolerance to diet changes.

We can survive on only meat, only vegetables, we can consume dairy or cut it out of our diets completely. We're the only animals which eat rice and can digest it as well (feed rice to a cat to clear out it's digestive tract, it looks the same when it comes out as when it goes in).

It may be complex but there's very little out there which we can put in our mouths from which our digestive system can't extract even some minor nutritional value.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[Viol8]

Try eating raw meat or vegetables and see how long you last. Sure , we can digest rice AFTER its been cooked. Try eating it raw and it'll come out the same as it does in the cat. The only things we can eat properly raw without some kind of preparation first is milk and some fruits but even the fruits (and vegetables) we eat have been bred to be more nutricious. Eg: wild citrus fruits are tiny, ditto plums & tomatos and wild apples are virtually inedible.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[thegarbz]

Erm there's a lot of Asians who would like to say something about your example. Mind you I'm a massive fan of Sashimi, Sushi, Steak Tartare, quite often I also eat it with ... salad. Yes unbelievable I know. I have no idea how I'm still alive either.

We can eat almost anything RAW though I agree about the rice part. RAW rice digests as well as nuts and corn, which is to say it doesn't at all. That said as for my cat, why the hell would you feed a cat RAW rice? If you cat has a stomach virus you're supposed to feed it cooked rice. I'm not sure you'd even get a cat to eat rice without cooking it in chicken stock. Oh and you live in some weird area if you think wild Apples aren't edible. Sure they don't weigh 100g like the one from the shop but have you ever thought of just eating two of them?

Your comment not only doesn't make sense, it actually goes against common dietary advice. Go eat some salad, or better yet join the latest health food craze and buy a juicer and make raw vegetable juice. It's delicious and nutritious. Except for kale, juiced or not juiced that tastes like shit, I don't care how good it is supposed to be for you.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[gzuckier]

I suspect the immune system and messy neural system have the same basic trait; generate a chaotic initial state, and let reality shape it. In the case of the immune system, after mix and matching the heavy and light chain genes, then kill of all the immature ones which are being stimulated, presumably by native bodily proteins; the survivors are specific to foreign antigens. In the case of the neutral system, strengthen cells which are stimulated while immature, and kill of those immature cells which have never been stimulated by anything in the environment. As in, apoptosis, those old experiments on kittens raised in the absence of horizontal lines, etc, the huge difficulty of kids born deaf in acquiring speech compared to those who go deaf later in infancy, etc. And you get a brain which had specific responses to specific basic features of the environment. Hell of a lot easier than trying to code that much very precise information in sloppy old DNA.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[gzuckier]

Arguably, the worst piece of design in the human is the apparently irresistible drive to avoid doing everything our bodies are designed to do well and with long term reliability, and replace those activities with ones which damage our bodies.

Re:Weak? No, it is not.

[Viol8]

I never said you couldn't eat raw veg/salad/whatever - I said try living on it. You won't last long. I'll give you the steak tartar though.

Me me me

[Anonymous Coward]

I sometimes spend a day coding while standing, but couldn't do it every day, as the second day starts to hurt my feet... And I've tried a few different shoes (sandals) that were supposedly created for prolonged standing. Didn't help thou...

Been doing it for a while, like this.

[luis_a_espinal]

Switching From Sitting To Standing At Your Desk

I started doing that a few weeks ago, and the benefits have been enormous. My setup is nothing fancy, just some props and books to elevate my keyboard and trackball, like this:

http://bit.ly/1j6DFbN

I got inspired by Marco Arment's DYI soda-can standing desk. I was struggling for a while thinking "what should I buy, how can do this". Arment's solution is so simple that inspired me to use whatever I had on my desk to put together a solution.

I'm thinking to build something similar with aluminum cans. But I do not drink soda, only beer, and I do not know if a standing desk made out of beer cans would be corporate appropriate :)

Anyways, my sciatica is not bothering me that much anymore since I started working standing. Once in a while I sit down (and I always sit down when I have to read a paper or report.) But I do most of my coding standing. The key part for me was to get a trackball for my set-up, to save elevated real-state.

In addition to the health benefits, I think coding standing helps me focus better. Entirely subjective of course.

Later, I plan to build a wood standing desk for my 5-year old daughter. I hope I can get her into the habit of doing more of her homework standing than sitting.

Re:I recently switched. couldnt be happier.

[YalithKBK]

I agree with being able to feel a difference. I work in a research lab and my time is split about 50/50 between computer and benchwork. On the days that I sit at my computer for the entire 8 hours I feel more sluggish and tired. But they days where I am at the bench even 5 out of my 8 hours, I leave feeling more awake and less stiff. I would love to get a standing workstation or even a treadmill desk for every day use!

Re:Weak

[gbjbaanb]

eh?

Assuming intelligent design for a moment, we were designed for stuff our ancestors were used to - running about and generally standing up.,

We were not ever designed to slouch in front of a TV/monitor with a little tool in our hands waggling it up and down (or side to side) pressing buttons.

So,much as I really don't care if ID is true or fantasy, citing proof of our sedentary lifestyles is not and argument against it.

This is office fascism.

[Roxoff]

They'll be wanting us to take the STAIRS next. It's almost like exercise.

Re:This is office fascism.

[Zynder]

I can't agree with you more!!!! Does your company not have mandatory Japanese-inspired stretching/calisthenics sessions at the start of the shift? Ours does and I typically just stand there staring at them like the retarded apes they are. If I wanted to exercise then I'd go exercise.

$559 chair?

[Anonymous Coward]

That muvman is $559. I don't know a company anywhere that will spend that kind of money unless you have a medical condition. As someone mentioned, buy a good stand up desk. Once again, what's the cost of that?

Most complaints you'll hear from office workers are in regard to cheap furniture. Me, I found a 1950s office chair on Craigslist and I bring to everyone one of my jobs. $50. It doesn't pretend to be ergonomic, but it's solid and I can sit on the edge when I type. The new chairs all have a slanted front that, when I type at the edge, falls our from under me. I don't have back problems at all. In fct, the only time I had back problems was when an ergonomics expert set up my desk. NUmb hands and back pain.

Re:$559 chair?

[LDAPMAN]

$559 is actually on the low side for ergonomic office chairs. Ever priced an Aeron? A low end model is $899 on Amazon right now. I've been in many companies where these are standard equipment.

http://www.amazon.com/Aeron-Ch...

Re:$559 chair?

[Lumpy]

I am sitting in a $890 chair right now. any good company will do it. I'm thinking you haven't priced real office furniture as the standard desk I am at is $2300 and it's a no frills Steelcase.

Re:$559 chair?

[geekoid]

A properly design personal ergo chair starts at 2 grand.

I'm a coder who stands all day...

[cplusplus]

...and I've been doing it for over two years now. I used to experience back pain when I sat all day, but that went away after a month or so. I used to get sleepy after lunch when I sat all day... not so much anymore. You really do get used to it. A few suggestions for those who want to try it:

1) Make the switch the first day you get back from a longer holiday and are already out of your normal routine.

2) You *must* get a nice floor mat, preferably a dense memory foam mat designed for standing cubes. Working in your socks (if your employer will let you) while standing on said mat almost feels like a foot massage.

3) Another *must* - don't get a desk-height chair! At least, not for a while. You'll find yourself sitting way too often and never get adjusted to standing all day. Most of my fellow "standing" co-workers that have tall chairs sit at least 80% of the time.

4) It takes a couple weeks to get used to standing. Stick with it.

Re:I'm a coder who stands all day...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm about two years in from the switch, and while I'm not sure where I went wrong I've developed plantar fascitis (characterized by sore heels when I first get out of bed, which very quickly clears up). I sit for the time being until I recover, when I will return to standing.

In the meantime, I'm trying to decide how I messed up. I think not having a good sit option (I have a stool, but it's the wrong height for my makeshift standing desk at work) was the issue. I strongly recommend to anybody doing this for longer than an experiment to invest in an adjustable-height desk (better if this allows you to switch to seated mode as necessary, such as a pneumatic or motorized height adjustment). Unfortunately, these things get expensive very quickly (hence the epoxy-resin shelves on a wheeled furniture dolly that I call a desk). Another potential problem has been that I stand in a stationary position for a long period of time, whereas it would be ideal to be moving (e.g. slow-moving treadmill).

Despite all the bad that I've experienced lately, I've noticed a considerable uptick in both general well being and leg tone (particularly calves) since I made the switch to standing. My standing posture has improved as well (I was a notorious slouch as a kid), and it seems to have helped my cycling strength a notch or two. Highly recommended, but there's more than one wrong way to go about this, and I strongly suggest doing your research before doing this for any length of time.

Re:I'm a coder who stands all day...

[farble1670]

2) You *must* get a nice floor mat, preferably a dense memory foam mat designed for standing cubes. Working in your socks (if your employer will let you) while standing on said mat almost feels like a foot massage.

yep, in the same way boxing is like getting a face massage.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Reapy]

I recall continual sore feet all summer from my walmart job at around 19 years old, I can't imagine what this would do to me now.

Hmm, not really.

[Viol8]

"Capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways most animals would die"

Can't let you get away with that. My dog can go out when its below freezing quite happily. I need 2 layers of clothing plus a coat.

As for heat, yes , we're slightly better adapted due to being able to sweat but that comes with a price - huge water consumption. Not very useful in a desert. Mr Camel solved the problem far better.

"We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds"

So can most animals otherwise the most complex life would still be a sponge. And to use my dog as an example again - he can happily drink water from streams and puddles that would put me on the toilet for 2 days.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in ID anymore than anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size, but as far as comparisons to other animals goes, the human body in the raw is pretty feeble. Even compared to our nearest cousin chimpanzees we're pretty hopeless physically - our muscles and bones are much weaker and they can survive falls from heights that would easily kill a human.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[bondsbw]

FWIW, the Genesis story clearly explains that humanity's fall into sin left us imperfect and subject to death. Arguing that we should be perfect is rewriting the story.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[luis_a_espinal]

"Capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways most animals would die"

Can't let you get away with that. My dog can go out when its below freezing quite happily. I need 2 layers of clothing plus a coat.

That would be a fine counter-argument if I had said that we were capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways all animals would die.. But I didn't, so...

I mean, c'mon. The context is clear, beasts of burden, cattle, foodstuff and prey, most of the stuff we compare against from the POV of being (or close to being) apex predators. Of course there are animals with better resistance to certain temperatures. Huskies and Polar bears >> us in the cold. Camels >> us in desert-like conditions.

But when you take the range of environments we were able to adapt since primitive times as a context, and we take the animals we domesticated and/or hunted/displaced, the generalization (from where I utilized the word "most animals") still stands.

As for heat, yes , we're slightly better adapted due to being able to sweat but that comes with a price - huge water consumption. Not very useful in a desert. Mr Camel solved the problem far better.

"We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds"

So can most animals otherwise the most complex life would still be a sponge. And to use my dog as an example again - he can happily drink water from streams and puddles that would put me on the toilet for 2 days.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in ID anymore than anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size, but as far as comparisons to other animals goes, the human body in the raw is pretty feeble. Even compared to our nearest cousin chimpanzees we're pretty hopeless physically - our muscles and bones are much weaker and they can survive falls from heights that would easily kill a human.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Oligonicella]

By picking out individual species you actually support his argument. He said most.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[luis_a_espinal]

I wouldn't use the Genesis as a point of reference.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[bondsbw]

In a discussion about ID/creation, how could you not?

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Viol8]

Except its not most, not its not even a majority. Most mammals can survive temperature variations and diseases that would kill us without clothing or modern medicine.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[3.5 stripes]

Our evolutionary path abandoned stronger muscles and bones for increased dexterity, and yeah, millions of years of living in and falling out of trees has selected for chimps which are pretty damn good at surviving falling out of trees.. there's a real surprise.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Anonymous Coward]

'Cuz the Dreamcast was way better, DUH!

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Viol8]

"Of course there are animals with better resistance to certain temperatures"

ITYF that would be most animals. Take away our clothing and we get hypothermia below about 5C and in strong sunshine we'll get bad sunburn - even people with dark skin eventually. Meanwhile most animals & birds will happily go about their business unconcerned in the same enviroments.

TBH the human body is a prime example of how NOT to design an animal physically. The only thing apart from our brains we have going for us is opposable thumbs and the ability of speech. Everything else is 2nd rate. Even for land based bipedalism plenty of flightless birds outclass us.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cause they live in trees, moron. You can drink water from streams and puddles too. Only reason it puts you on the toilet is because you DON'T. Sure, human bodies are pretty frail when you include human made tools. But for life in the wild? You don't know what you're talking about.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[luis_a_espinal]

In a discussion about ID/creation, how could you not?

LOL. You got me. I have nothing of a come-back :)

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Agent0013]

"We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds"

So can most animals otherwise the most complex life would still be a sponge. And to use my dog as an example again - he can happily drink water from streams and puddles that would put me on the toilet for 2 days.

If you drank water from the puddles and streams often you would probably not end up on the toilet. Don't the people in Mexico (or other countries where they tell tourists not to drink the water) drink the water just fine?

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Jmc23]

Just because you need so much clothing just means you don't know how to use your body properly. It doesn't mean everybody else is like that. Though the majority of broken bodies slumped in chairs all need that clothing as well.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Viol8]

Really? Well why don't you go sleep outside in -5C bollock naked like my dog can manage, then if you're still alive the next morning get back to us. Somehow I don't think we'd be hearing back from you.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Humans live and procreate in both the icy cold of Greenland and the searing heat of the Sahara Desert, and long before modern technology.

Humans are the only species that can survive long term in such disparate climate regimes - polar bear don't and camels don't.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Jmc23]

When I had a condo, everyday I used to do standing meditation on my balcony. In boxers because there's laws against public nudity.

This was in canada. During the winter. You'd be suprised what your body is capable of once you get your mind to stop constantly telling you your 'limitations'. This and my body still isn't functioning properly or anywhere near its potential.

A 10 day fast is the easiest way to begin to distinguish mental recordings and reality. The reality your brain creates is very real and can be lethal. One must learn to control it at all costs.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[mdielmann]

Can't let you get away with that. My dog can go out when its below freezing quite happily. I need 2 layers of clothing plus a coat.

Most dogs that can take the cold can't survive high heat. Likewise, dogs that can handle high heat usually do very poorly in the cold. With proper knowledge and acclimatization, a person can survive almost the same range as most dogs, and still a greater range than cold-adapted dogs. As for cold, I've heard stories about the Inuit. Some have come south for work, and found a few degrees C above freezing to be t-shirt weather and 10 degrees C above freezing is uncomfortably warm. Likewise, I've met people from the Caribbean who find a few degrees C above freezing to be winter jacket weather. With acclimatization, this doesn't matter. But I doubt your dog will do well in the Caribbean without some human assistance.

"We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds"

So can most animals otherwise the most complex life would still be a sponge. And to use my dog as an example again - he can happily drink water from streams and puddles that would put me on the toilet for 2 days.

Which is pretty much exactly what he said:

We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds. We die of infections beyond a certain magnitude, similarly to most other Eukaryote organisms. If our bodies are garbage, so are the bodies of all Eukaryote organisms.

Also, I don't think your dog is capable of boiling water, something we learned to do millenia ago thanks to our big brains. Evolution has given us a simple method to mitigate this problem.

Fact of the matter is, there are very few multi-celled organisms that can survive the temperature range that humans can stark naked. Add in clothing, and nothing at all matches our climate range. Yes, there are creatures that have greater extremes at either end, but they don't have the range we do, either.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Viol8]

Yeah, whatever you say hippy. Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Re:Hmm, not really.

[david_thornley]

And how long did you stay out there? You can die of hypothermia at a surprisingly high temperature (like in the 40s Fahrenheit, about 5-10 C or 278-283 K), if you stay out long enough without adequate clothing. Ever start feeling sleepy while meditating outdoors?

Re:Hmm, not really.

[Jmc23]

Hard to say, depends on how the experiments were going. For example, if you stand on snow and melt it you're going to lose body temperature quickly, so it seems better not to melt the snow. However, if you melt the snow quickly enough and form a puddle the water will distribute heat equally resulting in no perception of cold. Also, below freezing it's a lot more comfortable and warm on top of snow than bare concrete.

There's two key things here. Humans perceive hot & cold through differences in temperature and the human body, when on automatic pilot, usually defaults to worst-case-scenario.

On perception of cold, the body panics and changes blood flow to keep heat in the core. This automatically makes you more easily damaged by the cold because now you have insufficient heat in your extremities and it 'feels' colder. It's a vicious cycle.

That's on auto-pilot. If you don't let your body go in to panic mode, made easier by reducing temp differences between body parts, you'll find that the human body functions quite well in the cold. Learning to increase/decrease heat distribution in your body is key here along with being able to shut the machine up. It's one of the easiest body systems to access. Just requires a little simple visualization a la "my hand is getting hot/cold".

Re:Hmm, not really.

[gzuckier]

Also selected a propensity for occasionally jerking awake and saying "I thought I was falling! "

Re:Hmm, not really.

[gzuckier]

Have to remind ourselves that the most successful animals on earth are beetles. Presumably their design features are superior.

Re:Hmm, not really.

[gzuckier]

Interesting, slightly tangential weird news item from last November; apparently in Kenya, a couple of farmers who were having predator trouble with a pair of cheetahs, CHASED THEM DOWN ON FOOT AND CAUGHT THEM! then donated them to a wildlife refuge or somewhere. RESPECT!

The problem is being at a desk all day

[Subm]

"'If you look at the late 19th Century,' he says, Victorian clerks could stand at their desks and 'moved around a lot more'. 'It's possible to look back at the industrial office of the past 100 years or so as some kind of weird aberration in a 1,000-year continuum of work where we've always moved around.'"

If you look at any time in the past million years of our history, I doubt you're going to find a time when people stayed nearly perfectly so still for so long, standing or sitting. We even sit still when we travel from one place to another, which I can guarantee never happened before, even when we rode horses.

The difference between sitting at a desk all day or standing at a desk all day seems to me like the choice between someone punching you in the face or slapping you in the face. The position of the hand is small compared to someone hitting you in the face.

If you're at a desk all day and took a car to get there, whether you sit or stand seems to me a negligible difference compared to how anyone you inherited genes from behaved, except, maybe, when they were sick or about to die. I suspect that before the industrial revolution even when people sat around, they still moved around a fair amount relative to today.

Re:Weak

[Barsteward]

thats easy, make food and air pipes separate so we can't choke to death, improve eyesight/hearing capabilities, make teeth replace themselves just for starters

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[s0nicfreak]

Yep. The problem is the "work day" not the desks. It doesn't matter if you spend those hours sitting, standing, or switching between sitting and standing because you're going to be sitting or standing at the same desk, in a similar position (or in two positions) all day every day. .

I think we need to let go of the idea that jobs must be done from 9 - 5. Let people telecommute and get their work done whenever is best for them. A person can go biking, then sit in a park and do work one day; take a walk to starbucks and work from there the next; then spend the day playing with their kids and do their work at night, sitting in their bed. I don't understand why, despite the fact that technology makes this possible (and the fact that most hourly jobs can now be replaced with computers and/or machines, or are outsourced) we switched to treating salaried jobs the same as hourly jobs, where you get paid because you are there at your designated time rather than because you get your work done.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Barsteward]

you going to do some sewing as well?

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Dancindan84]

Yeap. I worked a summer on a sorting line in a recycling facility. Standing still on hard flooring is brutal. Even adding rubber mats didn't help a ton, and good shoes weren't really an option since we needed steel toed boots.

The thing that helped the most? Dancing. We put on music and danced while we sorted and it was light years better than just standing still.

IT'S A TRAP!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't really about gaining better employee health. This is part of the continuing plot to reduce the size of cubicles since a standing person takes less space than a sitting person who also needs to be able to maneuver a chair. I am opposed to this purely on this principle.

Re:IT'S A TRAP!!!

[Zynder]

Not sure if you're serious but I am-- I AGREE! This will sit [sic pun intended![pun of sic also intended]] a terrible precedent that I won't stand for! It's just an excuse to buy fewer chairs and pack us in more literally like sardines. When I see the CEO lacks a comfy chair I might change my mind, but until then I shall stand with you, toe to toe, a pair of sole mates if you will, against this odoriferous fungus-like rot that is taking over corporate America!

Re:Weak

[Oligonicella]

'Weak' is your argument. Humans can perform acrobatics that any animal on earth would envy. They can balance with the best of them. They have learned to ride the thermals as well as a vulture. They have learned to think far beyond anything the animal kingdom can muster. Too bad you haven't picked up on any of those traits.

Great for Code Reviews

[Maltheus]

We have these at my office. I love them. Health benefits aside, these are ideal for code reviews. People don't have to crouch or drag chairs into an (already too small) cube.

Other benefits include: nobody sneaks up on you, while you're standing, and it helps wake me up after lunch.

That being said though, most people use them in sit down mode and forget to raise them, most of the time. Still, it's wonderful to have the option.

Lying down instead of standing?

[ron_ivi]

Had a job that had conference rooms set up with hammocks in some rooms and couches in others so you could work from different posiitions. Seems healthier than just the focus on sitting or standing.

Re:Lying down instead of standing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they buy the hammocks down at the hammock district? How's that world domination thing working out for them these days, anyway?

2yrs in, and still standing.

[Kevin by the Beach]

I've been working from a standing position for 2 years and I have no intention of ever going back. It's never to late to start, (I'm soon to be 52) I first found an existing spot that I could place my computer and try it out... I was fortunate to both work from home and have a 42" countertop off the kitchen that was the perfect height. After working for several weeks at my kitchen counter, I went out and purchased some simple track shelving from the home depot. It cost maybe $150 to set up shelves for my keyboard/mouse, laptop, 24" monitor, and IP Phone. I've never felt better, and don't miss sitting on my ass all day long.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Barlo_Mung_42]

We got standing desks a few weeks ago. I stand for a few hours in the morning and a few in the afternoon but sit for lunch. I find that it works best to shift slowly from foot to foot and rock back and forth a bit. I also switch up my stance between wide and narrow and even stand on one leg now and again. You might thing that sounds distracting but I feel more focused while working than I do sitting down.

Re:Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space..

[Bryan Ischo]

Because most telecommuters are do-nothings, which is why they are just as "effective" at home as they are at work?

I'm only being slightly facetious here. In my experience, home is almost never a place conducive to doing good work, way too many distractions and way too disassociated from the normal work environment and its easy access to communication with co-workers.

I say this having been a telecommuter myself for a time (not by choice, but by circumstance) and finding it demoralizingly difficult to be effective, and seeing the same thing in just about every person I've ever worked with who was a telecommuter.

Sure I've worked with people who still managed to get good work done from home; but in every case, those were the superstars who actually got *more* good work done at work. Working at home took away some of their productivity as it does for everyone else I've known, but they were so good to begin with that it just knocked them down to better-than-average instead of superstar status.

Well that's my opinion anyway.

I got a Kangaroo at work and at home.

[aseth]

It's a standing desk from ErgoDesktop that trivially converts to a sitting desk - turn one knob and push it down, or raise it back up.

It lets me stand most of the time, and sit if I want to.

http://www.ergodesktop.com/

Re:I recently switched. couldnt be happier.

[SleazyRidr]

The guy behind me bought his own sit-stand desk a couple of weeks ago. There wasn't any company program, he just decided that his back was worth the $500 to him. He stood almost half the day for the first couple of days, now he sits the whole day again. I told him that if he felt better after a couple of weeks I'd buy one too, but of course, sitting down is exactly the same as sitting down!

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

While we're at it, let's put just a bit more distance between the defecating and fornicating areas.

As Always, Please Do It In Moderation

[organgtool]

My aunt was a hair stylist for decades before she retired. After retirement, she had to have at least one surgery to fix the damage that gravity had done due to being on her feet all day. On the opposite side, we know that sitting all day isn't good either. So, like all things, sitting and standing are at their best in moderation. Moderation can be achieved using high-top desks with tall chairs. They offer the option of standing for a while and then sitting down. They have these at the operational center where our software is deployed and I find that standing for twenty minutes and then sitting for twenty minutes provides a good balance.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[StripedCow]

No, some parallel programming :)

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the complete opposite. Lifting things causes my back to go apeshit. Moving around taxes my respiratory system. But I can stand in place for hours, doing the occasional "dance" to keep circulation going in my legs.

But sitting makes me fat. Perhaps a standing desk would be a good idea for me.

Re:Weak

[BiIl_the_Engineer]

Humans can perform acrobatics that any animal on earth would envy.

X is better than Y does not mean that X is good. The human body has a number of flaws and even seemingly innocuous foods are unhealthy to eat. You can't exactly expect a mindless process to produce 'perfect' results, so it goes without saying that the human body could be improved drastically. All the bad qualities make the human body seem horrendously weak, which isn't the same as saying that other animals are better.

Too bad you haven't picked up on any of those traits.

You need to get out of the "X being better than Y means that X is good!" phase. If that was not how you intended it, then phrase your arguments differently. Either that, or realize that some good qualities don't cancel out the negatives.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[yankeessuck]

I would love this but that is way too progressive for the US with its masochistic corporate culture where 40 hours/week is slacking and people don't use up their tiny amount of vacation days.

2 references

[sootman]

1) I'm not sure if this is the original source of this or not, but I started making an effort to move around more after seeing Sitting Is Killing You. I just wish it were available in a more compact form than the giant infographic. (Update: seems to be from Medical Billing & Coding, but their copy is gone. Also, the copy at lifehack org/articles/lifestyle/why-sitting-is-killing-you.html has a higher google rank but those assholes cut off the last slide with the credits and references.)

2) A blog I read linked to this blog post just yesterday:

My journey to standing all day looked like this:

Day One: stood for two hours, and didn't get much work done. Finally sat down and just wanted to cry.
Day Two: basically the same thing as day one for the next week.
Week Two: Things were better.
Month Two: I can now stand for about 6 hours a day, but more importantly I have finally broken the urge to sit down when I need to concentrate on something.
Month Four: I stand all day, and can work effectively now while I stand. I still go home with sore feet and legs.
Month Eight: The soreness is mostly gone and I can stand fine.
Year Two: I can't focus as well when I sit, and my legs/feet rarely feel sore. I've also ditched the anti-fatigue matt.
Year Three: It feels weird, and too loungey, to sit and work.

Re:2 references

[geekoid]

yeah, but did you ever get much work done again? :)

First they put you in cubicles...

[Kazoo the Clown]

Next they make you stand up all day, so they can reduce the size of an employee footprint even further. It keeps office space costs down, and all the better that it can be legitimized by junk science.

Re:First they put you in cubicles...

[geekoid]

Maybe you should read the science before just saying it's junk science? Crazy, I know.

Re:First they put you in cubicles...

[Kazoo the Clown]

I've no doubt that sitting too much may not be healthy, but when such a study is used to justify any sort of mandatory mitigation of that in the workplace, it's junk science. Good science becomes junk science when the consequences of its conclusions are misapplied.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

Lifting things causes my back to go apeshit.
Fix your form. Don't let your back bend forward.

Suggestions for Monitor setup?

[failedlogic]

I'm an avid reader and studying for career advancement as well as looking into Grad school. I would prefer to be able to stand and read for extended periods rather than sit since I already sit down 8 hours a day at work.

**Tips/Suggestions on where to find proper monitor size for standing desks?
I'm struggling with choosing an appropriate monitor and resolution to read from the computer. I can't seem to find any Ergonomic studies on-line that will help make this decision. I have a 23" monitor but I'm not sure if about 2-3 feet away I should get a 27" or just a TV (I'm aware of pixel density issues).

**Looking for Tips/Suggestion to select a Monitor to reduce eye-strain?
The move to a standing desk is supposed to be for health reasons. So while on this topic, it should be important to get a monitor to reduce eye strain too. I have good/great vision but my eyes do get sore reading on the computer. Adjusting the back-light helps a bit but not much. I've seen monitors from Asus, Eizo and BenQ that advertise reducing eye strain. The BenQ one has a reading mode with significantly reduced blue light. Anyone have experience with this or can suggest a budget-friendly monitor to look for that would reduce eye strain?

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll settle for root access to the universe and a few minutes alone with a terminal.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[greywire]

I agree to some extent about the 9 - 5 thing being in many ways bad.

I do exactly what you describe a few days a week.

The problem is that this makes it very hard to properly communicate with other people in your job setting. Nobody knows reliably when other people will be available, whether its for a meeting, or just to get some little bit of information. It works great if you are on a self directed task that lasts for the whole "day" and nobody needs you for anything. It sucks if you need 3 or 4 people to meet to discuss something.

I've also found that, with creator type people, they almost universally prefer larger blocks of contiguous work time in order to be efficient. So interrupting those work hours with other things reduces efficiency.

Clearly, sitting for 8 hours is not healthy. Personally, I could not possibly stand for 8 hours without my feet hurting horribly. Even 4 hours would kill me.

The ideal physical work envirionment would probably consist of a mix of walking, running, standing, squating, etc. IE, just like a human would have experienced while procuring food, defecating, mating, etc all day, in pre-civilization times (insert "evolutionary time" or "garden of eden" depending on your belief).

Thats hard to do for many lines of work these days (computer programmer, writer, artist, etc).

Some corporations...

[Anonymous Coward]

...such as my employer, Ericsson, have introduced elevating desktops allowing one to either stand or sit while at the workstation. Makes a hell of a difference. I can now park my derriere in an otherwise very ergonomic seat, reassured all along that my own re-enactment of the Australopithecus revolution is just one up-button press onto the desk controls.

Re:Some corporations...

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here @ Oracle Svenska. ALL the desks in the Java/MySQL dev office in Stockholm are adjustable/motorised. I want one for my home office now.

Try laying down on the job.

[Anonymous Coward]

I lay down all day long. For real! Well, being disabled forces me to be in bed but it sure beats standing! lol

use the legs

[Anonymous Coward]

I think part of the couch potato syndrome can be alleviated by developing and encouraging the so-called "sewing machine legs" which so many people deride as a bad habit and an annoyance. It doesn't take a scientific study to realize that it also burns calories. Once the social stigma is removed, this could be an easy way of improving our health.

Second for the Floor Mat...

[npistentis]

Agreed - I've been standing for 9 months. Bought an anti-fatigue mat and it's made a world of difference. Also critical that you ease into it - the first two weeks were rough, I did about 50/50, then expanded from there.

Re:Weak

[geekoid]

Only if you cherry pick data.
"Humans can perform acrobatics that any animal on earth would envy."
name 1.

"They can balance with the best of them. "
haha, no not even close.

" They have learned to ride the thermals as well as a vulture. "
nope. we learned to build machines to do that, and we developed science to figure it out.

"They have learned to think far beyond anything the animal kingdom can muster."
The animal kingdom can create thing that can think. Specifically, us.

And you ignore the issue with the skeletal system, hips and lower back.
The only thing we can do batter at is think; which is really really amazingly significant and not to be down played. Every physical attribute doesn't hold a candle to animals as a whole.

Yeah, sleeping on the floor, too

[Rinikusu]

Sleeping on the floor is supposed to be fantastic for your back, as well. And I still have a bed.

Pry me out of my aeron with your warm, live hands.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[gtall]

Actually, it takes more energy to stand because your muscles must keep your body balanced. And most people fidget more using their legs while standing. Your heart has to work harder too.

It's not binary

[CityZen]

Obviously it's a problem to sit all day. But it's not a binary decision between sitting all day and standing all day.

Like everything in life, the key is "balance": not too much, not too little.

Keep using a chair if that's what you like. Just be sure to stand up, stretch, stroll around a bit periodically.
Set a timer if you need to remind yourself.

If you like to stand, that's fine too. You also need to move around periodically, or even sit down.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Rossman]

Basically, because bosses still only feel like they are in control of their workers if they have all their staff sitting neatly in their cubicles. If someone isn't in the office, they must be slacking off.

Unfortunately this petty human behaviour is what has been holding back real telecommuting...we've had the technology to do it for ages, but even tech companies don't generally allow it.

Re:Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space..

[Rossman]

Definitely your opinion and thanks for the anecdote but that is the exact opposite of my experience.

IMHO, if a person can be demonstrably productive working remotely, they should be allowed and even encouraged to do that.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[MightyYar]

Lifting should be hell on your knees, not your back. "You're doing it wrong."

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't put a leaky faucet (nose) over an intake valve (mouth).

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[artfulshrapnel]

Yeah, I think there's something to be said for getting all the people involved with something into one place for large blocks of time. I don't know that we need the ENTIRE time to be synchronous across the whole team, but a lot of problems get solved really fast because a developer can walk over to me and just say "hey, what's up with this?" and I can walk over to the related people to get them an answer. We solve in 5 minutes of casual face-to-face time and a whiteboard what would take hours of confusing email conversations.

I Like Sitting

[hondo77]

I'm going to be cycling 39 miles into work tomorrow. I'll happily sit all day at work afterwards, thank you. I don't need my employer telling me I need to stand more.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

I think we need to let go of the idea that jobs must be done from 9 - 5. Let people telecommute and get their work done whenever is best for them.

Sorry, that idea does not work (no pun intended).

Some businesses need a certain staff level in order to operate. So, maybe close down when staff level are too low because too many people are off sitting in the park. But how are customers supposed to know when the business is open, if people come and go as they please?

What about consulting with co-workers? If you work the morning, and they work the evening....

What about dealing with other companies? It might be nice to work second-shift, but if you need to call another company, and they are only open 9-5, you're out of luck.

No- the only logical solution is have stated business hours, and expect staff to be there during those hours. And the standard accepted 'business hours' is 9 to 5.

Who ever said we were made to stand all day?

[kheldan]

Who the heck ever said that our bodies were designed to stand around all day either? I've read some of the comments here, and add my own experience: Having to stand in one place for hours on end? Excruciating. Worse than sitting by far.

Don't accuse me of being fat and out-of-shape, either: I have ~10% bodyfat, and am literally atheltic, I race bikes for fun and are training for it in one way or another 6 days a week. At least one other person here has said they're fine if they're on their feet and moving around all day long, but standing in one place is pure torture and more damaging than sitting. I think what we have here is more junk science, grasping at straws for a solution for people getting fatter and more diseased, and they're wildly swinging the needle all the way in the other direction instead of finding a sane middle-ground. What people need to do is get up and move around more during the day, and their employers need to encourage them to do it, and furthermore when people leave work for the day, they need to engage in more physical activity instead of plopping down on a couch in front of the television and consume alcohol and shitty food, or whatever version of that may apply to them specifically.

Wrists

[ThatsNotPudding]

I sorta switched to a standing desk by elevating the old drafting desk I use to it's highest level of ~38" from the floor. I have a crappy drafter's chair when my feets get tired (linoleum floor) so I alternate about half the time between seated and standing.

But more than my feet forcing me to sit are my wrists. I can't do to much keyboarding or intensive mousing without my wrists starting to ache. The desk surface is about at my belt level, so my wrist / arm included angle is about 150 or so. Not sure what to do about this problem.

The Medical Research gnome says:

[Anonymous Coward]

1 - think of a common human food, drink, habit or custom...
2 - create a medical research finding that it's bad for you
3 - ......
4 - PROFIT!!

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[geekoid]

By proper shoes.
Most people have no clue how to buy shoes that properly fit them.
See a podiatrist and buy shoes from someplace that measures your feet properly and understand their use.
You should do this anyway, you will be surprised how helpful they are.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[geekoid]

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/25/...
Its a talk with an expert, and if you want actual studies, you can go to pubmed or jama.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[s0nicfreak]

Some businesses need a certain staff level in order to operate. So, maybe close down when staff level are too low because too many people are off sitting in the park. But how are customers supposed to know when the business is open, if people come and go as they please?

Well, what kind of businesses are we talking about? Usually, the people sitting at desks all day are not the same people that are dealing with customers daily. A store, for example, needs a certain amount of cashiers there to operate - OR, a certain number of active self-checkout lanes (replacing hourly jobs with computers). It does not need the guy that programs the self-checkout lanes in an office from 9-5. He can debug the latest self-checkout update at the park.

On the occasions that such people do need to meet with customers, they schedule a meeting. Just the same as is done now. This may mean the person works outside of their "normal" working hours for that one day, but it's not every day.

What about consulting with co-workers? If you work the morning, and they work the evening....

You can live in different time zones so that it's morning where you are and evening where they are, and you consult via online video chat. Or, you'd consult once a week in the afternoon.

What about dealing with other companies? It might be nice to work second-shift, but if you need to call another company, and they are only open 9-5, you're out of luck.

Well the idea would be that there are no "shifts." If you need to call another company, then that day, you work for a little while when it's 9 - 5 where they are. You may need to sit for the duration of the call, but since you don't have to do it every day, it's fine.

And quite honestly I have found the 9 - 5 thing nothing but a pain when you need to call other companies. The other company wants you to call at 1, after lunch for them - but it's 4 for you, so you'd better be able to fit that conversation into an hour. And if you're dealing with a company in Hawaii or in another country, you're working outside of 9 - 5 anyway. The 9 - 5 thing is a holdover from when business was mostly done locally. Now that it's done worldwide, 9 - 5 doesn't work so well anymore.

Re:Weak

[Johann Lau]

Nobody is stopping you from describing your perfect universe in fiction, right? You want omnipotence, buy pen and paper :P

And actually, depending on how one reads the book of genesis, mortality and decay were a conscious design choice, and this is the shareware version of the universe, if you will, temporary testing grounds. Fiction or not, within the fiction, it kind of makes sense.

Having the choice at your whim is best

[Nosretep1]

When I was with the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) as a communications officer (dispatcher) we worked 12 hour shifts. Our workstations could rise and lower as we wanted so we could stand or sit whenever we chose. It was invaluable in keeping us productive and awake. And it was super comfy for me as I am 6'5. All workstations should be made to be easy to reposition as either standing or sitting. These days I work for the feds and have a generic cubicle with static desk that is barely adequate and chair that doesn't go high enough. I wish I could stand at my computer now.

variable desks

[Anonymous Coward]

The Oil/Gas company I currently work at is good for this (albeit that I always sit). The desks can go up and down at the press of a button so you can sit for a bit, stand for a bit then sit again.

Lots of people seem to like to make use of this and has the benefit of giving the choice to the individuals current whim.

Re:Weak

[jhumkey]

Omniscience . . . not omnipotence.

With omniscience . . . you don't need omnipotence. With omniscience you don't need ANY power because you know how to create (from nothing) or seize control, of any power, in any time frame, to achieve any effect.

Having omnipotence without omniscience . . . you can really only blow $hit up.

Re:Weak

[Zontar The Mindless]

With omniscience . . . you don't need omnipotence. With omniscience you don't need ANY power because you know how to create (from nothing) or seize control, of any power, in any time frame, to achieve any effect.

Bzzzzzt---Wrong.

Omniscience without power means you know everything but can't do anything about it.

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

humans are also extremely adapt at fooling ourselves, seeing patterns where there are none, and becoming so emotionally invested in a viewpoint that any information to the contrary is rejected outright.

the human mind is capable of great things... but it is also susceptible to great (self)deception.

any omnipotent, omniscient designer would not have made the human mind this way unless their goal was creating unnecessary suffering.

as for acrobatics... a octopus would laughs in our face if they could.

Re:Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space..

[pooh666]

Its ok, he was talking from the bad Kirk universe, all is well here.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Jmc23]

No, the main problem is sitting down improperly for hours.

Yoga asanas are homeostatic body configurations. Even when it looks like you're twisted up like a pretzel, as long as you're doing it correctly, there is no impediment to proper circulation.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Jmc23]

or learn how to use your feet.

Shoes are some of the greatest evil ever foisted on mankind.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Zontar The Mindless]

You could install a threadmill behind your desk.

"Jane---HELP! Stop this crazy thing! HELP!! JAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE!!"

Re:Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space..

[Zontar The Mindless]

I used to work for a company that sold for a billion dollars less than ten years after it was founded. 90% of the workers (including me) worked from home. I now work for the firm that bought us. And still work from home most of the time.

Re:I'd rather die young

[Zontar The Mindless]

Let's see whether you're still singing that tune when you're 40.

Sitting or syrup

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah sitting is the problem, I am sure the gallons of high fructose corn syrup that people consume every year have no impact.

Easier said than done.

[MaWeiTao]

Any solution that's good for your health is going to cut into productivity. What companies are trying to do is find a solution that helps but doesn't disrupt that productivity. Unfortunately, I just don't think that's possible.

Currently, I've got a coworker who walks at a specialized treadmill, designed for office use, nearly all day long. Great for her, but all she does is read and type on her computer. There's some work you just can't be moving to do effectively. I design, requiring precision and focus. I can't stand or walk while I work. But my workload is such that I can't talk long breaks throughout the day.

A sensible approach might be several long breaks throughout the day. But the problem is fitting those in to a work day. I wouldn't want my work day to get longer. Sure, if you're single, it's easy to just lengthen your workday but fit in numerous breaks. However, not everyone has that freedom or desire. I want to be home with my family at a reasonable hour.

I think we need a more fundamental shift in corporate mentality. There's this persistent attitude of rushing to wait. Jam in a ton of work into a compressed timeframe only to have it languish once it's complete. On the other hand, there does need to be some kind of balance. You can't just have employees sit around doing nothing. Although, sometimes I feel like that's all that happens with so many of my clients.

Re:Weak

[NoImNotNineVolt]

But then "Whoops, wrong hole" would be even less believable!

not that expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

I got an electronically controlled desk for 600€ and switch from sitting to standing a few times a day. I did not have any pain in my back since then and as a very tall IT guy working 8-12h shifts, that's awsome.

Health care costs rise? - No

[camg188]

From the summary:

if the evidence becomes overwhelming, the health costs rise...

This argument is starting to replace the "but think of the kids" argument. It's pointless, pulled out when someone wants an emotional reaction.
Sure, obviously some thing(activity, food, chemical, ...) can make you sick and incur medical costs. But what would happen if that thing was completely removed from your life? Immortality? Nope, some other thing will make you get sick and incur medical costs.

The point is that at some point everybody will get sick/hurt, incur medical costs and die.

Regarding the medical costs, does it really matter whether the cause was sitting, smoking, obesity, flu, cancer, accident, etc.? If you are worried about the burden of medical costs on society in general, the people who die suddenly just around their retirement age would be the least burden.

Re:I'd rather die young

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a difference between good advice and corporate policy/legislation.

misses the point

[farble1670]

while it's true that sitting all day isn't good for you, neither is it good to stand all day. what's important is not doing the same thing for prolonged periods. the best option is to have a desk where you can both sit and stand ... such as a raised desk w/ a bar-style desk chair, or a desk that can be cranked up and down.

all things being equal, i'd rather have to sit all day than stand. i've had several jobs in my youth where i had to be on my feet for 8 hours, and it so no fun at all. forget about getting diabetes 10 years down the road, worry about the the fact that your feet kill you every single night after work.

Re:misses the point

[gral]

The key is being able to switch up every couple hours. Instead of a desk that can change. I move my keyboard and monitor to a shelf for a period of time periodically throughout the day and back again.

Re:I'd rather die young

[Zontar The Mindless]

There's a difference between a legitimate concern and pure hyperbole, but that doesn't seem to have inhibited the OP.

Re:Weak

[Gondola]

And just because you know how to do something doesn't mean it isn't prohibitively expensive or time-consuming.

Re:I recently switched. couldnt be happier.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bully for you.

With bone marrow cancer eating away at my bones and joints, makes it hard to stand / walk without near overdose levels of pain meds.

Standing desk? Fuck no.

Re:I'd rather die young

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see whether you're still singing that tune when you're 40.

I turned 40 20 years ago, dumbo. Hope you can manage the math.

And yeah, my doc says I'm very healthy, need no meds and oh yes, I'm HAPPY.

I suggest you combine your kale and rice cakes in an imported food processor and take them as an enema!

To your health!

PS: I've never suffered a sports injury either!

Re: Omniscience

[DocSavage64109]

Omniscience . . . not omnipotence. With omniscience . . . you don't need omnipotence. With omniscience you don't need ANY power because you know how to create (from nothing) or seize control, of any power, in any time frame, to achieve any effect.

That only works if such things are possible. Have fun using your omniscience on nothingness if you can't actually do anything.

Zontar: Face the music libeler

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Re:Zontar: Face the music libeler

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" (rotflmao).

Zontar: Backup your b.s. libel... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Re:Zontar: Backup your b.s. libel... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" (ROTFLMAO!).

Zontar can't backup his libelous b.s.

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Re:Zontar can't backup his libelous b.s.

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" (rotflmao!).

Ready everyone? "See Zontar RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Re:Ready everyone? "See Zontar RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" (rotflmao)!

Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" ( rotflmao )!

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

They must taste like the shit since that's all he spews here anyways. Serves him right. At least he's cleaning up after himself this time.

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahaha

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" ( rotflmao! )

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the vomit he spews here? Good. Serves him right. At least this time, he cleaned up after himself!

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahahaha

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" ( rotflmao )

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the diarrhea he spews all over this site? Serves him right. At least this time, he has to clean up after himself.

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahahahaha

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[david_thornley]

Hey, Dice, can we fix things to posts like the above only show up on beta?

Re:Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd settle for the ability to edit posts like yours because horrible spelling word missing you are.

Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Zontar = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

the deer is surprisingly ergonomic, except for the

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1329:_Standing

take a cue from the Catholics

[PJ6]

Sit, stand, kneel. A simple way to keep the rabble comfortable for those awfully long Latin masses. I worked out that they were onto something one day when I decided I needed to do more than sit all day. Now I sit, stand, and kneel (kneeling chair) at an adjustable desk. I even cross myself when I feel particularly silly.

Treadmill desk

[Paul Fernhout]

I set up a treadmill desk several years ago, with a regular treadmill, with a board across the hand holds for a keyboard (bungie cords and a wooden stick to hold up the board), facing a wall with adjustable shelves that I put LCD monitors on. I use a track ball instead of a mouse. I really like the setup, even if I may end using it less that I thought and otherwise alternating between standing or sitting on a tall stool. I had some intermittent problems with the treadmill motor early on that made it hard to use and requiring repairs and kind of broke me out of the habit of using it regularly.

I never go much beyond 1.5 mph on it, and more often slower (even 0.5 mph). I probably have never used it for more than four hours in one day or much more than 2-3 miles. Still, when I am using it frequently, I've found walking outside for long distances to be much easier. I can't imagine any research saying it is the same healthwise as a sitting desk -- unless it was by chair manufacturers. :-)
Dr. Levine's work at the Mayo is what inspired me to try it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

One advantage of a treadmill desk over a standing desk is that you keep your legs moving more so blood is less likely to pool in your legs.

However, I can see that it is not for everyone. I put one together for my wife but she had trouble typing reliably while walking and so just ran it while on calls or watching videos. Otherwise she mainly uses it as a standing desk or also sitting on a tall stool. She would probably have been happier with just keeping the standing desk setup she was using before the treadmill (since you don't have to get up onto an elevated treadmill surface to use those and have more flexibility where you position it).

For mine, I feel like there have been times it has contributed towards knee strain. I think that may be due in part to the limit of treadmills as unnatural walking experiences? One other downside to getting one was that I felt I was exercising more so I walked less outdoors. That probably contributed towards vitamin D deficiency (correctable with supplements, but you have to know to do that). Overall though it has been a good thing,

While it depends on what I'm doing, I also find that walking on the treadmill can actually contribute to my concentration.

Re:I'd rather die young

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:I'd rather die young

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:Awesome. Perfect excuse to give us less space..

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Zontar I highly recommend you quit running

[Anonymous Coward]

"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You said MY program's a spyware?

I disproved that too here WITH PROOF FROM A RELIABLE & REPUTABLE SOURCE IN THE SECURITY COMMUNITY who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!

http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(Which I always produce from reputable sources, NOT fellow "trolls" whom I destroyed, like I am destroying YOU (see ps below)):

---

"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

You say my program's crapware?

Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...

---

"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.

You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.

---

You said by turning up cpu priorities in my program I am turning off the processscheduler?

"He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler" - FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Question:

How would the process scheduler be turned off by doing that?

APK

P.S.=> Same with using arstechnica as your backers - BIG mistake!

I annihilated arstechnica, & outside their private playpen where THEY STALKED ME TO @ Windows IT Pro forums http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , no less!

You can't explain WHY Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little's websites were removed by CrystalTech &/or Shaw CA hosting providers

IF I'm "so bad", why'd THAT happen to 'em? apk

Re:Zontar I highly recommend you quit running

[Anonymous Coward]

Zontar the Mindless is the 1st 'writer' (not) in history to have to "eat his words" ( rotflmao )!

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been called out. I'm waiting for you to explain your quoted libel here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:I recently switched. couldnt be happier.

[Anonymous Coward]

Recommendations on where to buy, or if you got a computer desk which one?

Re:Weak

[Kuroji]

Is it bad that I initially misread this as omni-science, rather than being all-knowing? I could probably do quite a bit with a sufficiently advanced technology...

Anyway, if I am omnipotent I can make myself omniscient. And after I decide to lift the stone I've made that's too heavy for me to lift because omnipotence trumps logic and causality, I'll make a new version of humanity where the components are not quite so prone to unfortunate errors, breakage, and purported design flaws. Still going to leave mortality in there and make allowance for the postmortem existence and transfer of consciousness to another plane of reality. Heck, might even make it so you can shuffle back and forth from time to time, we'll call it reincarnation.

I'll just make sure that there's solid, unquestionable proof of it.

Re:I recently switched. couldnt be happier.

[cerberusss]

find it a lot easier to communicate with people

That's because from your standing desk, you look down on them. THEY ARE YOUR MINIONS, TO DO AS THEY ARE COMMANDED TO DO!

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[david_thornley]

Thing is, you're mixing life and work. When I'm here, I can concentrate on Slashdot^Wwork all day. If I'm working elsewhere, it's harder to maintain focus. Also, if a bike to the park is work one day, how does it work as leisure the next?

if we all start standing at our desk,

[Anonymous Coward]

won't we all turn into donald rumsfeld?

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[s0nicfreak]

If you love your job, there's nothing wrong with that. You're getting leisure and work within the same hour, maybe even at the same time. I currently do this actually, and it's great.

Of course, if you don't like your job and find that this makes you feel that you can never get away from it, you could just schedule yourself some work times and keep your leisure activities separate. (Or you could get a job you love, I suppose.) No one would be FORCED to bike to the park to work.

I do suppose though that schools would have to be changed first, and give kids more freedom so that they can learn to self-regulate concentration, time-management etc. rather than relying on the association that being in this place = it's time to work. There are already a few schools and homeschooling methods that do this...

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the point is a mix. Works great for me the following:
1. 90' sitting and 10' break exercising arms, legs, neck, knees, waist
2. 90' Standing on comfortable soft floor. 10' break exercising same as 1.
I understand you may not be able to do it at work but, no problem at home.

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

ermahgerd, you're one of THOSE guys.....

Re:Not sure how standing up would solve anything..

[Anonymous Coward]

A poster named Dancindan suggesting people just dance their pain away. Who'dve thunk it!

unfortunately

[gzuckier]

Medical research has not been piling up suggesting that standing all day at your desk is good for your health. Waking all day is good for your health, though, and I await the first company to switch to a walking office.

Re:Weak

[gzuckier]

And fer crissake, put a little more effort into the risk identification and avoidance module. The stock version is damn near useless.

Re:Weak

[gzuckier]

Two things humans have going for us; built in language acquisition and development engine; and no fear of vacuum cleaners. And I haven't tested whether chimps can match us on the latter.

Standing requires less spece

[sglines]

As soon as businesses realize that a standing clerk requires less space they will jump on it.

Re:Weak

[Anonymous Coward]

The TV/monitor and waggly tool were actually designed for us, not the other way around.