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Declassified Papers Hint US Uranium May Have Ended Up In Israeli Arms
Lasrick (2629253) writes "Victor Gilinsky and Roger J. Mattson update their story on the NUMEC affair to take into account the recent release of hundreds of classified documents that shed additional light on the story. In the 1960s, the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC) was found to be missing about a 100 pounds of bomb-grade uranium. Based on available evidence, Gilinsky and Mattson are convinced that the material ended up in Israel nuclear bombs. The newly release documents add more to the story, and Gilinsky and Mattson are calling on President Obama to declassify the remainder of the file."
I think this has been known for many decades
I thought this was well known, just unofficial.
Hell, it even made a Tom Clancy novel!
I mean, how do you report that to your insurance agent anyway?
You sure that's not missing a few 0s?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Theres a lot of evidence linking the Israelis to the South African nuclear weapons program with a lot of people thinking it was a "legitimatised" nuclear program that would only get SA into trouble internationally while Israel could walk away with a lot of improvements scot free, so if US technology and material ended up in Israeli hands, then I have no doubt equally that some of it then made its way on to apartheid South Africa.
Around 2000 there was a huge fuss about a top secret US tank fire targetting system that was stolen from the hardware that was donated to Israel, sold to China and then on-sold to Iran. Apparently even the thieves were pretty upset about that outcome.
However nuclear stuff makes people a bit more careful about keeping tabs on things.
Yes there's been official disclosure from the South African end.
No need to make a big deal about apartheid. We still put up with Israel doing it.
The US government is run by jews.
No, the reality is that the US government as well as the Israeli government are run by criminals.
And since the Israeli are alway protected by their sugar daddy, they can commit the most heinous acts without repercussions on the international scene. Yeah it's almost a given they have nuclear weapons. Israel is as bat shit crazy country as they come (some of it justified, most of it not).
Maybe the US should ask that uranium/plutonium back. And while they're at it impose the kind of economic sanctions they they impose on another country THAT DOES NOT HAVE the bomb. Hypocrisy all around.
This is quite disgusting of Slashdot to be spreading bigotry and hate in this day and age. This article should be removed immediately for spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories.
The Israelis would use a nuclear bomb as a last resort to keep what they have, a tiny strip of land.
Their adversaries and a few other rogue states and groups are not above using a nuclear bomb to get what they want, a tiny strip of land or even the whole western world.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Actually, I have two oppinions on this matter
1.) if a country is in possession of nuclear weapons,
they should join the nuke arms test & proliferation ban
Israel should join this treaty.
No army and nobody should own nuclear weapons.
And Mordechai Vanunu should be given the chance to go exile.
2.) Israel is a special case
a.) The country is actually nothing more than an airstrip, from north to south it's approx. 200km wide. If aggressors try to invade it's a really short walk.
Or just four thermonuclear devices to split a country.
b.) Israel would never use the nuclear bomb as a first strike option. This can be seen as it never officially admitted having nukes, but everybody knew. It's a much critized politic style - but it worked - and choses nukes as a means of mutually assured destruction or retaliation.
So actually I'm ok with Israel having nuclear weapons and german fuel cell drivin subs to launch them.
But to be clear on the other point when it comes to Israel:
I'm absolutely not ok with the politics Israel undertakes towards the palestineans, the actual worst enemy for peace in Israel( In my count Gaza and west jordan area are part of Israel) is the whole politics of blame and shame.
I agree that the Israelis would only use the bomb as a last resort - just don't see how they could do that and still keep their strip of land. Besides, if the issue is preventing Israel's enemies from getting their own nukes, and one of the primary reasons those enemies can cite for pursuing them is "Israel has them, so why can't we", then the best way to end the middle east arms race would be for israel to give up its nukes in exchange for a US promise to retaliate against any nuclear strike against them.
Perhaps Israel didn't trust the US as an ally in the 60's, but they have no other reliable friends now - so they better start trusting us.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
You may have hit on something there, as 100 pounds of highly enriched uranium would constitute less than went into the Little Boy weapon that exploded over Hiroshima, Japan, in 1945; judging from various online sources, that weapon contained about 64 kilograms of HEU, and 100 pounds amounts to only 45 kg. On the other hand, the design of the Little Boy weapon was (again, judging from online sources) highly inefficient. My rough guess is that 100 pounds of HEU would be enough for two or three weapons that employed an efficient design.
John Branch
Why bother trusting the US when they can simply use AIPAC to bribe our representatives into doing what benefits them?
...we're seeing that, when push comes to shove and certain people are in charge, the "promise" of the United States doesn't mean squat.
Nukes in the hand are worth an infinite number of promises and strongly-worded letters...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
I agree that the Israelis would only use the bomb as a last resort - just don't see how they could do that and still keep their strip of land.
Well, if the US has all the ICBMs only for defense, why have them when they won't have their strip of land either after an attack regardless of whether they use them or not? Same logic.
Ezekiel 23:20
The Israelis have a long standing relationship in trading military hardware with the Chinese. Another example is their air-to-air missiles the Rafael Python-3 which is manufactured in China under license as the PL-8.
I do not know exactly why the Israelis do this thing. If it is strictly for profit or if it is because they want to have a backup in case the US for whatever reason stops supporting them. Probably both. At one point their major weapons suppliers were the UK and France but after the Suez Crisis botch up the UK withdrew support. France kept selling them weapons until their other major costumers, the Arabs, said they would no longer buy weapons from them if they also sold to the Israelis. So they became reliant on the US for most weapons systems.
In the long run, there are no allies, just business relationships.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
This happened almost 50 years ago, seriously, who cares?
Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it.....
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Clancy touched upon the rumor that nuclear materials made it from the USA to Israel. There is also a rumor that the transfer included technology and designs and a few working warheads just to get them up and running quickly.
There is no way the Israelis would give away or lose the material you say?
The premise of Clancy's novel is highly unlikely. We don't officially acknowledge Israel's possesion of nuclear weapons. But if one was lost in hostile territory, if Israel didn't go in to recover it, we would. It wouldn't serve global politics well to find US part numbers in an Israeli bomb.
Have gnu, will travel.
Tom Clancy told us this in the Sum of All Fears, the great book; not the horribly butchered movie...
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Their adversaries and a few other rogue states and groups are not above using a nuclear bomb to get what they want, a tiny strip of land or even the whole western world.
The construction of this statement is priceless if not vague, inaccurate and worthless. The intersection of adversaries of Israel and lunatics particularly is quite laughable.
"--- You must be this intelligent to ride the internet. Shorter riders must be accompanied by a parent or guardian."
The use of the nuke for the Israelis is to preserve their land to continue living on it. I would agree having nukes is a deterrent. The risks of nuclear fallout seem the greater risk.
When are we going to put sanction on Israel over their Nuclear Arms program?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
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South Africa gave up its nuclear program after the fall of the apartheid regime.
This land was taken by force, and the natives (continue to be) interned and executed. The surrounding areas do not pick on Israel because the people are Jewish, but because those who call themselves Israeli commit both crimes and crimes against humanity. Start with this book bt prof Chomsky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fateful_Triangle
No - something much worse - it's run by Americans.
Nothing much has changed in the last 30 years. The US still has intrests in Israel and the middle east. Everyone knows Israel has nuclear weapons but can't prove it and that is just the way Israel likes it. Israel was on the brink of extinction in 1973 and no WMDs were used this proves remarkable self restraint. Accusing Israel of a 50 year old crime would serve no practical purpose. It would hurt relationships with Israel it will harm the peace process it would harm the fight against WMDs because it would show the truth we are much more concerned about dictators with WMDs then we are about democracies.
Note that uranium is extremely dense - 19.1 kg/liter - so we're not talking about a huge amount of material. 100 pounds is only about 2.4 liters - a little more than a half-gallon milk carton.
I would say there is a slight difference.
The Israelis would use a nuclear bomb as a last resort to keep what they have, a tiny strip of land.
Their adversaries and a few other rogue states and groups are not above using a nuclear bomb to get what they want, a tiny strip of land or even the whole western world.
Which strip of land? Israel or the West Bank? I agree that Iran has said some worrying things and Israel seems a nice place to live filled with generally pleasant people. But they are without a doubt the aggressors in the current conflict and having nukes is one of the factors that has emboldened them to adopt such an extreme strategy. Now their enemies having nukes is a really scary proposition because Israel has adopted an extremely aggravating position predicated on the idea that their enemies are powerless to harm them.
I stole this Sig
True, plus they wouldn't have had it swanning around unescorted near possible SAM sites in the first place. (Speaking of the film; haven't read the book)
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
How does weapons-grade uranium go "missing", don't they mean someone stole the uranium ..
To discover that one of the USA's middle eastern client states might have been provided with the materials for nuclear weapons just in case the USA had to throw a bomb or two at a particularly stubborn oil producing country without making the USA itself an immediate target for nuclear retaliation.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
The Israelis would use a nuclear bomb as a last resort to keep what they have, a tiny strip of land.
The real concern though is how far are they willing to go these threats. People who believe a higher purpose guides their destiny have a diminished sense of responsibility and should never be allowed to possess nuclear armaments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
Ukraine's current predicament was created by the the US government. They orchestrated and funded the coup. Here's a leaked phone call of Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, and Geoffrey Pyatt, US Ambassador to Ukraine, discussing which puppet they're going to install in the new Ukrainian government, and worrying about when Russia will respond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
war college text republished.
OLLLLDDDD news that various entities including W.German intel, the CIA and MI6 participated in providing fully enriched yellowcake to Israel.
Part of the payoff for various assistance by Israel in providing Russian war equipment to the U.S. for ECM testing and training.
They never paid the 3.8 billion due for the ship and cargo that they stole for war purposes.
Oh?
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
You also seem blind for the recurring fact no Arab government wants to admit these well educated Palestinian refugees in their own country.
This all does not make good the illegal settlements the Israeli's continue to build on what effectively is occupied Jordanian and Syrian land.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Oh?
From parent following statements are valid:
I don't know exactly who is considered "adversaries of Israel" I do know there are some dozen countries who don't recognize Israeli passports and more than half will either throw you in jail or not let you in if you so much as have an Israeli stamp on your passport. At least one such country already has nukes.
While I'm sure there really are people or groups of people who would actually Nuke x if they could for reason y this represents a tiny subset of "adversaries of Israel" .. the same statement probably holds true for just about every country in the world making it rather worthless.
How does weapons-grade uranium go "missing", don't they mean someone stole the uranium ..
Um, hello..... half-life???
No need to make a big deal about apartheid. We still put up with Israel doing it.
Give it a rest, will you?
Arabs have a strong representation in the Knesset (parliament) and a higher standard of living than Arabs living anywhere else in the Middle-East. Not to mention the various other minorities in Israel which are literally being slaughtered in the surrounding Arab countries but finding refuge in Israel.
The Chinese have 'issues' with Muslims wanting their land as well.
The Arab-Israeli conflict is neither sweet nor simple. But slander of either side does not help. There is no color line in Israel.
Actually, in terms of skin tone, Israeli Jews have more different shades than the Arabs.
I18N == Intergalacticization
That still means Russia broke it's promise. Or are you going to go it alone and say there are no Russian military units in Ukraine even after it has been admitting by Russia itself?
Ukraine being an ally of the west is nothing but good for them. Of COURSE Russia doesn't want that, but this IS NOT the age of conquest any longer contrary to whatever the last few braincells rolling around in Putins brain may still be dreaming of. This is the age of play nice or be utterly decimated by the majority, at least when it comes to places OUTSIDE your borders.
But no, we don't agree.
I did cast a wide net, the adversaries of Israel might or might not be the same as the rogue states.
What they do have in common is a wish to drive Israel back into the sea and they usually consider The West an accomplice of Israel or vice-versa.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Actually, Israel is set to pass a new law that will effectively disallow Arab parties from running for elections. There is systematic anti-Arab racism in Israel, it won't end soon, and the Palestinians don't even have human right as far as Israeli courts are concerned.
Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
I agree that the Israelis would only use the bomb as a last resort - just don't see how they could do that and still keep their strip of land. Besides, if the issue is preventing Israel's enemies from getting their own nukes, and one of the primary reasons those enemies can cite for pursuing them is "Israel has them, so why can't we", then the best way to end the middle east arms race would be for israel to give up its nukes in exchange for a US promise to retaliate against any nuclear strike against them.
Perhaps Israel didn't trust the US as an ally in the 60's, but they have no other reliable friends now - so they better start trusting us.
If I was the Israelis, I would not trust the USA, even to the extent of pausing a meeting to go for a bathroom break. All too often the USA has let down its partners, and screwed them left, right and center.
Suppose Israel had the weapons (which so far, they have never claimed to have) and they gave them up. As Israel is a small country, comparable to Rode Island in size, would Israel exist by the time the USA reacted? I can just imagine the haggling in Congress as the months go by to decide if they should help Israel, and then under what conditions.
If Israel is going to disappear, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iran, all of these ideologies will disappear, with their lands not habitable for generations. Masada on a larger scale.
Israel's message -- Leave me in peace, I leave you in peace. Hit me, I hit you back. Make money, not war, lets do business together.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
That's it just skip away from the facts that the world trusts the Israelis not to do crazy things with nuclear weapons and we don't trust Iran, etc in the same way.
Just skip into backbiting.
Actually, Israel is set to pass a new law that will effectively disallow Arab parties from running for elections. There is systematic anti-Arab racism in Israel, it won't end soon, and the Palestinians don't even have human right as far as Israeli courts are concerned.
Bullshit. References?
I'm sorry, but I don't trust those in power in Israel as far as I can throw em.
So speak for yourself. Many people believe (rightly so, IMO) that Israel is just as bat shit crazy as its neighbors.
You may 'believe' that, but some people believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster with just as much proof.
You mean they don't weigh the stuff, tell me more, provide citations ...
-- "CIA’s conclusion at about the same time that Israel previously stole bomb-grade uranium from a US naval fuel plant" ref
If this is not an age of conquest, then how did the US conquer Ukraine? It sure as hell wasn't democracy. The democratically elected Prime Minister of Ukraine was forced to retreat due to the US orchestrated efforts to overthrow him, and later died.
You are a hypocrite. Good day.
The US didn't conquer Ukraine. The EU as usual has created this mess. Their continued incompetence is both embarrassing and dangerous. As far as orchestrating any uprising goes exactly how does the US government force the actions of thousands of people? Threaten to nuke them? Deposit thousands of dollars in everyone's checking account? It's so much easier to blame the US or Russia when it's the people on the ground that are making the decisions and carrying out the actions. Although in this case Russia isn't even trying to hide their involvement and will certainly not be apologizing to anybody because Putin knows he gets a free ride on all his actions because the US invaded Iraq 2003 which evidently makes all future military incursions perfectly acceptable from here on out. There are internal political factions in every country in the world and they fight amongst themselves and jockey for money and influence to empower themselves. You make it sound like all these innocent people are standing around waiting for the US to tell them what to do or how to act. It's actually quite insulting because you write off any self determination these people may have and make them look like mindless automatons working for the US government when there is not a shred of evidence to support that argument. Russia has a lot of leverage to promote their goals in the region but the US really has no leverage or interest in the region. The only possible thing they could be worried about is Russia moving on some the other Baltic states in the same manner and a couple of those states are in NATO and covered under article 5 of the common defense provision.
:) great argument!
You have convinced me!
It isn't their land. See U.N. map of land ownership in Palestine, 1946
False as always. The "Strong Arab Presence" is 1/128th while representing 33% of the population. And that isn't ALL arabs, only those who have sworn allegiance to the Jewish State. All told, the "democracy" in Palestine represents only 41% of the total population.
Everyone else is without proportional representation.
It is already proven that Israel has engaged in war crimes.
Only the use of 157 vetos by America has prevented sanctions against Israel so far
Do you really care how little punishment that criminal state suffers?
No one else does.
False as always. The "Strong Arab Presence" is 1/128th while representing 33% of the population. And that isn't ALL arabs, only those who have sworn allegiance to the Jewish State. All told, the "democracy" in Palestine represents only 41% of the total population.
Everyone else is without proportional representation.
You might want place the blame where it's due. Arab leaders have repeatedly instructed their people to abstain during votes. You can't have representation in government if your people refuse to vote for you :)
I have placed the blame where it belongs
On the Jewish government which decided to make Arabs third or forth class citizens and denying the majority even a shred of dignity in their own land
Abstention does not forgive disenfranchisement which is what I was talking about
Remember, the land belongs to the Arabs as the U.N. 1946 map proved.
No. It does not.
The Christian ethnically cleansed the region of Jews, then the Arabs came and did the same. The Arabs of 1946 are not natives of the region by any stretch of the imagination. They did the same in Egypt. Hint: Today's Egyptians have nothing to do with Egypt's native population from a thousand years ago. They are just Arab colonists who invaded the area and ethnically cleansed it of non-Muslims.
And what does that have to do with the fact the land belongs to the Arabs?
THEY inherit from their fathers and grandfathers, there were very few Jews and they did not own 94% of the land as of 1946
The Jewish people of Europe inherit NOTHING because there is no uninterrupted possession by Jews.Get over it. The Muslims, btw, did not 'cleanse' Palestine. Rome did that BEFORE the Christians. When the Crusades seized Jerusalem, THEY killed off the local jews by burning the synagogues.
I suggest you read a history of the Jews and Saladin, who deposed the murderous Crusaders.
Asian history covering Saladin
As Dhimmi, so long as they paid taxes, did not insult Islam or attempt to convert Muslims the Jews were free to come and go as they would