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Kerry Says US Is On the "Right Side of History" When It Comes To Online Freedom

An anonymous reader writes "Addressing the audience at the Freedom Online Coalition Conference, Secretary of State John Kerry defended NSA snooping actions saying: 'Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy. And we all know this is a difficult challenge. But I am serious when I tell you that we are committed to discussing it in an absolutely inclusive and transparent manner, both at home and abroad. As President Obama has made clear, just because we can do something doesn't mean that we should do it. And that's why he ordered a thorough review of all our signals intelligence practices. And that's why he then, after examining it and debating it and openly engaging in a conversation about it, which is unlike most countries on the planet, he announced a set of concrete and meaningful reforms, including on electronic surveillance, in a world where we know there are terrorists and others who are seeking to do injury to all of us. And finally, transparency – the principles governing such activities need to be understood so that free people can debate them and play their part in shaping these choices. And we believe these principles can positively help us to distinguish the legitimate practices of states governed by the rule of law from the legitimate practices of states that actually use surveillance to repress their people. And while I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes.' He added: 'This debate is about two very different visions: one vision that respects freedom and another that denies it. All of you at the Freedom Online Coalition are on the right side of this debate, and now we need to make sure that all of us together wind up on the right side of history."

261 comments

  1. Sure, I guess I agree by robinsonne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If by "right side" he means leaning towards totalitarianism and increasingly corporatist/fascist views towards online freedoms, then ok, I guess I can agree.

    1. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would say that the US used to be, but the last decades have turned over to the dark side.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Mitreya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If by "right side" he means leaning towards totalitarianism and increasingly corporatist/fascist views towards online freedoms

      He says so right there:

      He added: 'This debate is about two very different visions: one vision that respects freedom and another that denies it.

      I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

    3. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

      They are on the "respect freedom" side, its just that you're not. Hes talking to the 1% who count.

    4. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by MisterSquid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If by "right side" he means leaning towards totalitarianism and increasingly corporatist/fascist views towards online freedoms, then ok, I guess I can agree.

      The right side? What a bunch of horseshit. The summary quotes Kerry as saying

      And we believe these principles can positively help us to distinguish the legitimate practices of states governed by the rule of law from the legitimate practices of states that actually use surveillance to repress their people. And while I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes.

      Which I'm might be a typo ("the legitimate practices of states that actually use surveillance to repress their people") but would be unsurprised to find out he actually said that, Freudian slip and all that.

      What really infuriates me is the hypocrisy and the lies. Who is "win[ning] prizes" for holding the US government to standards? Snowden had to flee his country to seek asylum in RUSSIA for crying out loud.

      The whole thing stinks and they (Kerry, Obama) have the gall to lie to our faces that they are going to do something about it.

      I'm so angry I could spit.

      --
      blog
    5. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah!!!

      It has more to do with the reality distortion that Jobs spoke of so eloquently. If you move so far to the right, the left no longer exists in your view. So, you are right no matter what the left say.

    6. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right side of history is Obama's administration's catch phrase.
      Of course he also said that Romney was on the "wrong side of history" about Russia being a threat.

      Translation.
      Right side of history == people that agree with the Obama administration.
      Wrong side of history == people that do not agree with the Obama administration.

      Just what we need is a president with a catch phrase.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    7. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      2009 analysis pretty well predicting this mess:
      http://www.imi-online.de/2009/01/01/imperial-geopolitics/

    8. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

      I think it's a mistake to infer that he does think that, just based on him saying that.

    9. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The "Right Side of History" is one of these overused statements to say He I Think I am right, while your side is wrong.

      The problem with trying to look good for history, is that history looks back with filtered vision.
      A lot of people at the time, even in the US, though Communism was a good idea, you look at Star Trek, Communism won! The hippy movement... As an ideal communism looked progressive and will bring the world into a better place... However the system had a fatal flaw it didn't account of peoples ambitions, so a people will have their own idea on what they need, and people who disagreed needed to be controlled, so a more totalitarian system came from it. You follow the party, if you disagree you are against the party.
      However those more conservative groups, saw it is a threat and saw it for its danger, and kept it under control...

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      "I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things."

      He means respecting the freedom for the rich to do whatever they want, and for everyone else to suck it up.

    11. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      I think it's a mistake to infer that he does think that, just based on him saying that.

      It is also a mistake to believe that what he thinks matters in the least. He is the secretary of state. He has no authority to set policy for the NSA, CIA or DIA.

    12. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Communism yes, Fascism even more. Progressives commonly supported and were intrigued by Fascism in the 20's and 30's.

    13. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says Kerry, a man that has been in government for like 50 years and a multi-millionaire .

    14. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 0, Troll
      The US was ALWAYS the dark side.

      There is NO "right side".

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    15. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      I think it's a mistake to infer that he does think that, just based on him saying that.

      It is also a mistake to believe that what he thinks matters in the least. He is the secretary of state. He has no authority to set policy for the NSA, CIA or DIA.

      I'm not sure any of us thought he was speaking authoritatively. But he is a member of the administration, and is assumed to be parrotting the public position of Obama. And so we scream at him for his remarks' self-serving hypocrisy and self-contradiction, in effigy of screaming at Obama himself.

      But, of course, your point extends to our screaming as well. Practically speaking, none of our protestations on a Slashdot comment system are at all likely to affect national policy or the general public's sentiment in any relevant way. We're feeling impotent rage, and it's a very unpleasant feeling.

    16. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Based on what exactly?

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    17. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by causality · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong side of history == people that do not agree with the Obama administration.

      That's also a frequent definition of "racist".

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    18. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 0, Troll

      The US stands for "Free Enterprise", not "Freedom".

      "Freedom", generally speaking, means you're not subjected to any non-natural limitations. The need to eat is natural, and therefore, requiring you to work with nature to feed yourself is not an imposition on your freedom.

      "Free Enterprise", on the other hand, is the right to conquer in a structured way. It is the right to claim you "won" control over things you have no need for, and dictate terms to other people who rely on those things which they must accept, or deadly force will be brought to bear upon them.

      The US, therefore, is the antithesis of real freedom. It is the freedom of feudal lords to go on vacation and not be concerned with a serf uprising while they are away, nothing more.

      The USA will someday be remembered as the most destructively amoral group of vicious savages ever to walk the face of the earth.

      Because they are.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    19. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

      History. The US has always been at war.

      Kerry justifies his bullshit with the standard, "The other guy is worse, so STFU".

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    20. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Who is "win[ning] prizes" for holding the US government to standards?

      Well, his boss won the Nobel Peace Prize.

    21. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I'm so angry I could spit.

      Be careful. Anger is becoming an actionable offense. And if you do spit, don't spit on the sidewalk. In some places that is also actionable.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    22. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not surprised with that statement since he is a member of skull and bones. All control for them they see most of us as non-free so big surprise there.

    23. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think "win prizes" is referring to Snowden getting nominated for a Nobel Peace prize.

    24. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Rigel47 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

      It's not. But he's a politician and part of a Government that excels at saying one thing and doing another. All this bullshit talk about "transparency" is laughable. The only reason we are having this "talk" is because of Edward Snowden.

      Nevermind, of course, that any reasonable reading of the Constitution makes much of the NSA's activities illegal. But no, that's not important. What's important is that we're talking, having "conversations," in a "transparent" manner. Meanwhile the NSA's vacuums are running full tilt and the FISA rubber-stamp machine is printing "Approved" on anything that comes near it.

    25. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by lagomorpha2 · · Score: 1

      If by "right side" he means leaning towards totalitarianism and increasingly corporatist/fascist views towards online freedoms, then ok, I guess I can agree.

      The trick to being on the "right side of history" has always been to make sure the people who will write the histories are people already sympathetic to your side.

    26. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you mean "right" as in "right wing."

    27. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just what we need is a president with a catch phrase.

      "Right side of history" is just the 2010's version of "With us or against us" that was so popular in the 2000's. SSDD

    28. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      So goes the determination of every following age. Relax, it all works out in the end.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    29. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      If I had my choice between Secretary of State or the Presidency I would choose Secretary of State. Tons of influence, nearly untouchable by the president after being appointed, and a highly functional position unencumbered by the bulk of politics inflicted on the President.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    30. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Your knowledge of history is poor, but I'll agree that the motives of domestic policy are sincerely suspect. These values are NOT what my ancestors fought for, however, and so this is a change.

      We were once tribes and warriors, and now instead of multiple gruesome battlefields, executive play war conquering each other and us on a battlefield called Greed Capitalism.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    31. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      If by "right side" he means leaning towards totalitarianism and increasingly corporatist/fascist views towards online freedoms

      He says so right there:

      He added: 'This debate is about two very different visions: one vision that respects freedom and another that denies it.

      I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

      Mitreya-san, one must always respect one's enemies.

    32. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

      But... He does not say it.
      He does not think it.
      He does not act it.
      I think its a mistake to infer that he infers anything. (He is, after all, the United States Secretary Of State; Prima Fascia evidence of his professional relation to truth.)

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    33. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Tons of influence, nearly untouchable by the president after being appointed, and a highly functional position unencumbered by the bulk of politics inflicted on the President.

      If by "nearly untouchable" you mean "can be fired at a moment's notice at the whim of the President, is the lightning rod for every failed Presidential foreign policy position or statement, and has to step and fetch for foreign dignitaries that are better ignored", why yes, I agree completely.

      Keep in mind, when you see a Secretary of State making absolutely ridiculous statements demonstrating a complete ignorance of world politics, he's doing so as Secretary of State because the President chooses not to fire him, not because he can't be fired.

    34. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume he's not stupid, which scares me to imagine the audience this must be meant for. I can understand he's not worried about the majority of people who will be made more suspicious and roused to action after hearing this since their impact so far has been basically zero. The surveillance power multiplier Obama has amassed continues to operate unchecked, so far as we know, and the only visible improvements are technical not political. I don't see any evidence congress or international pressure or economic harm has had any impact on his international totalitarian surveillance conglomerate. Also, the spying practices of countries that weren't cooperating closely with this leaker haven't gotten any more transparent. so I can understand why he'd risk saying something that would inflame people further---they don't matter. But why say it unless there is some advantage to him? Who are the people made less powerful or less concerned by hearing this?

    35. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      spitting is assault

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    36. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      The problem is that sometimes it is racism.
      Not every person that opposes the Obama admin does it for good reasons. But the truth is that not everyone that does oppose the Obama admin does it because of racism.
      Of course no one ever wants to really talk about is that no race is free of racism.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    37. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Not always. Back in WWII, the other guys really were a lot worse.

      But yes, over much of its history, the US has been extremely imperialistic.

    38. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your knowledge of history is poor, but I'll agree that the motives of domestic policy are sincerely suspect. These values are NOT what my ancestors fought for, however, and so this is a change.

      We were once tribes and warriors, and now instead of multiple gruesome battlefields, executive play war conquering each other and us on a battlefield called Greed Capitalism.

      In the old days, people who played at war died on the battlefield. That was a good thing, because we're better off with such men dead. The problem with modern warfare is that they come home alive. In an ideal war, both sides slaughter each other and the last man standing dies of his wounds before he makes it home.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    39. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by operagost · · Score: 1

      Some of you who hated W are probably now thinking Kerry might have been worse.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    40. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by operagost · · Score: 1

      If there are a few people (and there are FEW) who oppose the President's policies because he's half-black, that isn't really a problem any more than people who oppose his policies because he drinks beer, or likes his thermostat at 74 in the winter, or wastes taxpayer money on his wife's vacations, or smokes. They're really of no consequence.

      People who try to commit crimes against the President because he's half-black would be a problem.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    41. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tons of influence, nearly untouchable by the president after being appointed, and a highly functional position unencumbered by the bulk of politics inflicted on the President.

      If by "nearly untouchable" you mean "can be fired at a moment's notice at the whim of the President, is the lightning rod for every failed Presidential foreign policy position or statement, and has to step and fetch for foreign dignitaries that are better ignored", why yes, I agree completely.

      Keep in mind, when you see a Secretary of State making absolutely ridiculous statements demonstrating a complete ignorance of world politics, he's doing so as Secretary of State because the President chooses not to fire him, not because he can't be fired.

      But. But. But. HILARY!! BENGAZII!!!!

    42. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Obama has been worse than Bush in many, many ways. Democrats would have been flipping a shit over the NDAA but yawned and went back to bed when it was their guy signing it into law. Or ignored the War Powers Act and the Constitution to start a war in Libya without Congressional authorization. Or broke up OWS protests, complete with the FBI planning on using snipers on protest leaders "if necessary". Or....

    43. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 2

      In the old days, people who played at war died on the battlefield. That was a good thing, because we're better off with such men dead. The problem with modern warfare is that they come home alive. In an ideal war, both sides slaughter each other and the last man standing dies of his wounds before he makes it home.

      When was that exactly? I watch a lot of history channel, and history is mostly filled with kings and generals standing BEHIND the lines of poor people with pointy sticks.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    44. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Communism yes, Fascism even more. Progressives commonly supported and were intrigued by Fascism in the 20's and 30's.

      You know those are polar opposites, right?

    45. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is the US politics, foreign policy included, always such "if you're not with us, you're against us" polarized nonsense?

      Must one agree with everything, or nothing at all?

    46. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by s.petry · · Score: 1

      You are missing something huge. Not so long ago, nobles would also die on the battlefield. Nobody would race without a captain to charge an enemy, and those captains all came from wealth houses yielding the best gear money could buy. None of those people today are on the battlefield, meaning that the natural selection is only working on lower class people.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    47. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume he's not stupid, which scares me

      While I agree with him being frightening, that is due to appearance. I have no idea who his plastic surgeon was or is, but that alone shows Kerry is actually stupid (vain, arrogant as well).

    48. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by peragrin · · Score: 0

      I like that idea. Every time company A buys out company B the board of directors and corporate officers of company A have to murder the Board and corporate officers of company B. Let's define a hostile takeover with guns. Now t be fair company A would then have to provide compensation for the families of the lives they took.

      Companies would avoid merging which means more companies which would increase the competition and lower prices. Then we can say CEOs desere their pay as one day they will earn it

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    49. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is "win[ning] prizes" for holding the US government to standards? Snowden had to flee his country to seek asylum in RUSSIA for crying out loud.

      See ... he won a trip to Russia!

    50. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      When was that exactly? I watch a lot of history channel, and history is mostly filled with kings and generals standing BEHIND the lines of poor people with pointy sticks.

      No, history is mostly filled with pawnbrokers who tell the camera "I really want this, it would look really cool in my shop and I know I can sell it for a profit" but tell the guy trying to sell it that "it will be on my shelf for a year, I'll have to get a nice frame for it, the collectors aren't buying, and can I get my buddy take a look at it?" before they make a low-ball offer.

      If only history were filled with more antique book dealers or unpaid (but now part-time employee) interns. And less screen-writer fantasy about how Vikings lived.

      For the slow or non-viewer, I'm referring to Rebeccah and Lili.

    51. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by dcw3 · · Score: 1, Troll

      So, are you implying that we were on the "dark side" during the revolutionary, WWI, and WWII, and Korean wars? If that's the case, I'm happy to be on that side. I don't agree with all the wars we've participated (or started) in. But the comment made by the GP is simply asinine.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    52. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fun part is they use that to make it so that NOBODY can oppose Obama without being called a racist.

      I mean some rich, loser says some idiotically racist things in private and suddenly he's an untouchable. Some other guy publicly says flagrantly racist things about a different public figure and he stands by them and nobody cares. The only difference between these two racists was the color of their skin.

    53. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by blagooly · · Score: 3

      I consider myself a refugee from the one party state of Mass. Vermont now. Still one party, but there are more trees. Plus, a bonus, a soul still exists here in old school Vermonters, not so different from old school everywhere.

      Kerry strikes me as a mediocre man. Splashed on to the scene as a impressive, whistle blowing, honest Veteran. People cared, they listened. Rewareded as Senator for life in Mass. Since then? What? Where does that experience apply?

      Now this? Homeland security, TSA, info gobbling, more spy agencies than even the most ardent activist can name is correct? This is the right side of history? This man is not even a second rank intellect. He is not a serious man.

      As an aside, this seems to be the hiring standard, and fatal flaw of the current admin. It explains the choice of Biden. "Dewd, that was like two years ago" on a network news program? Where did they find that asshole? Mediocrity seems to be what gets them the job. No threat to make the President look bad, in comparison. Is this the explanation?

      I am open to opposing views.

      Does anyone have an argument/evidence that proves me wrong? Kerry is a third rate intellect, a second rate man.

    54. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Kittenman · · Score: 1

      History. The US has always been at war.

      Kerry justifies his bullshit with the standard, "The other guy is worse, so STFU".

      Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia.

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    55. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Bartles · · Score: 1

      No they aren't. They are both totalitarian.

    56. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I watch a lot of history channel

      That's hilarious.

    57. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you spit on someone.

    58. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      So, are you implying that we were on the "dark side" during the revolutionary, WWI, and WWII, and Korean wars?

      *What do you think Columbus do
      When he come here in 1492
      He said to Pocahontas "Acki Vachi Vachi Voo..."*

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    59. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      The USA will someday be remembered as the most destructively amoral group of vicious savages ever to walk the face of the earth.

      Because they are.

      That's just not true. Why just the other day I read that a policeman petted a dog before he shot it.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    60. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Invading Grenada and Panama, supporting the Contras in Nicaragua, the coup in Guatemala and the support for the military there killing hundred of thousend of people, killing Allende and installing Pinochet in Chile, overthtowing the democratic elected prime minister of Iran and installing the Shah, the Vietnam War and the massive use of chemical warfare there, supporting the Taliban, supporting Sadam and his war against Iran, supporting him to kill as many Kurds and Iranians as possible with chemical weapons, killing Lumumba and installing Mobutu in Congo....

    61. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

      There are two kinds of people in the world: the righteous and the wicked. Classification is done by the righteous.

    62. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The right side of history?

      Ok lets check any war the US was late to the party - probably morally justified.

      Any war the US started - Greed and money.

      Any war the US won. I don't know it has not happened in my lifetime.

    63. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Kirth · · Score: 1

      Wrong side of history == people that do not agree with the Obama administration.

      That's also a frequent definition of "racist".

      Mod parent troll down.

      This Obama Bush is just the same as that W. Bush. Only Obama looks and talks better.

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
    64. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Who is "win[ning] prizes" for holding the US government to standards?

      Well, his boss won the Nobel Peace Prize.

      But not for holding the US to any standards. I mean, well, back in the day, he was against illegal detention in Guantanamo Bay, and for transparent government and protection of whistle blowers, and you could argue that he got his Nobel Peace Prize before he turned his back on all that.

    65. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by mcvos · · Score: 1

      I think "win prizes" is referring to Snowden getting nominated for a Nobel Peace prize.

      But that's a Swedish Prize. The US wants to lock him up.

      I guess that tells you which country is on the right side of history, and which isn't.

    66. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Communism yes, Fascism even more. Progressives commonly supported and were intrigued by Fascism in the 20's and 30's.

      You know those are polar opposites, right?

      I've seen people argue very convincingly that Stalisnism was actually closer to fascism than nazism was.

    67. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the old days, people who played at war died on the battlefield. That was a good thing, because we're better off with such men dead. The problem with modern warfare is that they come home alive. In an ideal war, both sides slaughter each other and the last man standing dies of his wounds before he makes it home.

      Thank you for sharing your shallow knowledge of history with us. You haven't bothered to present any evidence to support your claim. Presumably this post was modded up by your buddies?

      In reality, many terrible rulers "played at war" and didn't die on the battlefield. Even those nobles that were physically present on a battlefield tended to have many retainers to protect them. Further, systems of ransom developed in many places and during many periods, making it far more beneficial to capture an opposing noble than to kill them.

      Your homework is to pick a region of the world, list the notable nobles that participated in war over the history of that region, determine a criteria for whether they "played" at war, then determine what percentage of those died on the battlefield. Doubtless your report will be fascinating.

    68. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      I've seen people argue very convincingly that Stalisnism was actually closer to fascism than nazism was.

      Because Stalin was real big on corporations?

      "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power"
      --Benito Mussolini

    69. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      No they aren't. They are both totalitarian.

      Pedantry. Fascism and communism are polar opposites on both economic and political scales. Are you and Ralph Nader alike because you have the same position on the Gold Standard?

      Actually I was referring to Mussolini more that the National Socialists. Progressives liked the economic system.

      You mean they liked the large scale public works projects that employed thousands and a policy of full employment. If we're going to pretend that if you like A you must also like B, do you support Obama having the power to have you arrested or killed without probable cause if you thought he did a good job killing Osama Bin Laddin? If not, why not? /painfullyfacile

    70. Re:Sure, I guess I agree by mcvos · · Score: 1

      I've seen people argue very convincingly that Stalisnism was actually closer to fascism than nazism was.

      Because Stalin was real big on corporations?

      "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power"
      --Benito Mussolini

      "Fasci" means "group", and one of its characteristics is the organization in concentric circles around the group: a strong leader, his inner circle, the party, the people, the nation. Russia with its strong leader, politbureau, and perks for party members, was not so different. Though obviously the merger between state and corporate property was of a very different nature.

    71. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      In the old days, people who played at war died on the battlefield. That was a good thing, because we're better off with such men dead. The problem with modern warfare is that they come home alive. In an ideal war, both sides slaughter each other and the last man standing dies of his wounds before he makes it home.

      Thank you for sharing your shallow knowledge of history with us. You haven't bothered to present any evidence to support your claim. Presumably this post was modded up by your buddies?

      In reality, many terrible rulers "played at war" and didn't die on the battlefield. Even those nobles that were physically present on a battlefield tended to have many retainers to protect them. Further, systems of ransom developed in many places and during many periods, making it far more beneficial to capture an opposing noble than to kill them.

      Your homework is to pick a region of the world, list the notable nobles that participated in war over the history of that region, determine a criteria for whether they "played" at war, then determine what percentage of those died on the battlefield. Doubtless your report will be fascinating.

      Fuck you, arsehole. I'm not one of the submissive little fucks who hangs out in universities. If you wish to alleviate your ignorance, go do your own legwork.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    72. Re: Sure, I guess I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The grandparent post angered you because you knew it was correct. The shrieking tantrum you threw in response was seen by any and every person who read it as an inadvertent but unconditional concession.

      Furthermore, your reference to"submissive little fucks who hangs out in universities" is a transparent attempt to excuse your own failure. You're angry at yourself for humiliating yourself with your ignorance, but you're too immature to face the fact that this humiliation was entirely your own fault, so you transfer that anger to people who take the time to learn what the hell they're talking about - an activity which you find intimidating to do, despite your jealousy of those who do it. In short, you're insisting that the grapes are sour, and everyone who read your comment knows that, too.

      You will now prove the grandparent right again.

  2. If Might Makes Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    maybe he's correct.

    1. Re:If Might Makes Right by Stargoat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since the US, by controlling in the Internet, more or less is capable of re-writing any history that is less than praising of its methods, I suppose the US is on the right side of history. They can write the history, after all.

      --
      Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    2. Re:If Might Makes Right by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since the US, by controlling in the Internet, more or less is capable of re-writing any history that is less than praising of its methods, I suppose the US is on the right side of history. They can write the history, after all.

      He was just misquoted. He meant the US is on the "write" side of history. As in the US is going to write the history and paint it as completely wonderful.

      "In the dark times, national security was hampered by not knowing what every citizen was doing at all times. Roadblocks such as warrants prevented our wonderful security organizations from looking up information on anyone at anytime. This meant that threats could come from anywhere at any time. Those tasked with protecting our security wept over such horrible restrictions. Thankfully, the restrictions were removed and our wonderful security overseers can now look up information on anyone at any time for any reason without having to deal with trivial minutiae like court-issued warrants, probable cause, or fact-based evidence linking the person to a crime. This means we live in the most secure times imaginable. Just ask anyone (who doesn't want to be dragged off in the middle of the night for speaking out against the security agencies)."

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:If Might Makes Right by Stargoat · · Score: 1

      You stole my pun. I'll kill you!

      --
      Hoist Number One and Number Six.
  3. History... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    History is written by the victors - not necessarily the good guys.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:History... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The victors are always the good guys. They get to decide who the good guys are.

    2. Re:History... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The victors are always the good guys. They get to decide who the good guys are.

      Music to Obama's ears! "Might makes right".

    3. Re:History... by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 1

      I'd ban phrases like "the good guys" or "the bad guys". Hollywood has made so many people think in these stupid terms and that makes them justify any of their actions based on that belief.

      American excepcionalism is greatly aided by the conviction of being the good guys.

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
  4. So lets be Open about it. by delt0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As far as i can tell, if there was no Snowden there wouldn't be any discussion at all.

    --
    If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    1. Re:So lets be Open about it. by dmbasso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. This hypocrisy really pisses me off:

      I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes.

      So please stop being a hypocrite and free Ms. Manning, give her a medal for her bravery.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    2. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as i can tell, if there was no Snowden there wouldn't be any discussion at all.

      But is that a bug or a feature?

      Feature: Yes, we're having a debate about the surveillance society we've built.

      Bug: Just as with the warrantless wiretapping scandals of the previous administration, the response is: "So, SOPA, no wait, CISPA, nope, we'll call it CISA this time! When CISA (Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2014) passes, any company that sells information to us for $0.01 can no longer be sued for fucking over its users! The corporations that fought us on SOPA/CISPA will no longer be able use the excuse that they could be sued, and we can simply threaten to Nacchio/Qwestify anyone who still doesn't want to play ball with us."

    3. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."

      Like Manning, and Snowden if some of our elected officials get a hold of him?

    4. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither one of them is in trouble for "holding their government to standards".
      They're in trouble for illegally leaking a whole lot of secret documents. Both had the choice to do the former without the later.

    5. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes.

      In Kerry's mind, I'm sure "the US" is a place where people win prizes for holding their government to standards. The Washington Post and Guardian both won Pulitzer prizes for reporting the Snowden revelations. Bradley/Chelsea Manning was nominated for a Nobel, but I don't think she is one of the people Kerry means. Very different than, say Turkey, Iran, and China, where they put journalists in jail.

      When Kerry talks about "hold[ing] their government to standards," he means professional journalists. Not whistleblowers. Not spies. Not even bloggers and tweeters. Professional journalists working within recognized, formal structures that include source verification, editorial review, and the potential for publication holds.

    6. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Both had the choice to do the former without the later.

      Who do you think you're kidding here? All the channels have been designed to shut down whisteblowing, not protect it. Going to tell the brass at the CIA that the CIA is breaking the law, under the orders of the brass? Going to tell the DOJ that the Pentagon is breaking the law, following classified legal opinions written by the DOJ? Tell the Senate Intelligence Committee that the illegal programs the Committee has voted on are illegal?

    7. Re:So lets be Open about it. by aralin · · Score: 1

      Yes, professional journalists, those working for one of the 5 big corporations, those completely under editorial control of the money that bough his ticket to state welfare in the first place. Those.

      Kerry is a lier in chief and I would respect that. All the secretaries of state are supposed to do is lie. But he is not even good at that. Everyone can see right through his lies, whether it is on domestic affairs or foreign. Just look at his take on Ukraine. It is not even believable by the little people who still believe in Santa Claus. Come on, lets at least find someone for the job who can lie well.

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    8. Re:So lets be Open about it. by ilparatzo · · Score: 2

      By transparency, he meant only AFTER the opaque wall is broken down, and then only in the areas where you are directed, and only until you forget about the entire fiasco. At which point, we can turn off the transparencies and go back to business as usual.

    9. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Goaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's just conveniently forget that Snowden tried to do things the "correct" way, and nothing happened.

    10. Re:So lets be Open about it. by BiIl_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      It's always comical to see you idiots saying that Snowden should've went to the higher-ups with his concerns. He actually did, and I don't think he should've. When the government is violating the highest law of the land--when it is violating people's fundamental freedoms--the people should be made aware of it as soon as possible, through any means necessary. Going to higher-ups (who likely condone the violations) jeopardizes your chances of informing the people, and wastes time.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    11. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."

      Like Manning, and Snowden if some of our elected officials get a hold of him?

      No, like Alexander and Clapper and Holder who lie to congress and the government according to the standards the government applies when dealing with the people. Where would we be without the Munchhausen standards?

    12. Re:So lets be Open about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was in 7th grade when the PATRIOT Act came out, and as soon as I read about it I knew they were going to use it to spy on Americans. Seriously...it has the most direct verbage of any act I've ever read/heard of. They get 100% of electronic communications, they don't need probably cause, they can extend warrants indefinitely and they don't have to notify parties that have been spied on.

      Point being: it took over 10 years for the country to figure out what was plain as day to my 13 year old mind within days. In those 13 or so years, not a damn person seriously contested the PATRIOT Act or questioned what the US government was doing with those mile-wide provisions in the PATRIOT Act. I'm not so arrogant, though. I know someone thought the same things I thought about the PATRIOT Act, and I'm sure more than one of those people voiced their concerns through the appropriate channels over the years. But you don't see those people's names in the news, do you?

  5. Irony by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 5, Informative

    From TFS:

    "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes"

    So, Snowden isn't due for jail-time if he were to return to the USA, Mr. Kerry?

    And why has the Obama administration brought charges against more whistleblowers than all other administrations combined? (Six by Obama, three by all previous administrations combined)

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:Irony by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      That was a total WTF statement, who was he referring to? Obama? O_o

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, Snowden isn't due for jail-time if he were to return to the USA, Mr. Kerry?

      What, to jail Snowden!? U.S.A have more power than that:

      The expertise came from the Washington DC-based firm Rubin, Winston, Diercks, Harris & Cooke and essentially means that anyone who has anything to do with Snowden, even journalists, is a potential criminal.

      http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/chancellor-merkel-sacrifices-nsa-investigation-for-unity-on-ukraine-a-967596.html

      Germany blocks Edward Snowden from testifying in person in NSA inquiry
      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/01/germany-edward-snowden-nsa-inquiry
      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/01/1296181/-Uncle-Sam-s-Legal-Opinion-Makes-Auntie-Angela-Real-Happy

      Translated from German:
      http://www.online-translator.com/siteTranslation/autolink/?direction=ge&template=General&sourceURL=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/edward-snowden-befragung-durch-nsa-untersuchungsausschuss-a-967144-druck.html
      http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/edward-snowden-befragung-durch-nsa-untersuchungsausschuss-a-967144-druck.html

      An attached report from a U.S. law firm sent to the German embassy in Washington said the United States "has jurisdiction to prosecute crimes committed in Germany, Russia or elsewhere through which classified information from the U.S. has been disclosed".
      That would make it an offence for a member of parliament to make secret U.S. information public, which could be the case if Snowden testified. The report said Washington might respect the immunity of German lawmakers but was not required to do so.

      http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-05-02/news/sns-rt-us-germany-snowden-20140502_1_edward-snowden-german-government-u-s-national-security-agency

      The best description about U.S.A Government, may be:
      Lilo & Stitch - S01 E26 - Finder

      Dr. Hämsterviel:

      Your minions shouldn't like you.
      They only need to fear you!

  6. doublespeak by VMaN · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy."

    But that is precisely what is going on.

    1. Re:doublespeak by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      It's a balancing situation... we can't have criminals talking to each other without being intercepted, but we also can't have people managing our lives for us...

    2. Re:doublespeak by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy."

      But that is precisely what is going on.

      Since Obama came on the scene, I've learned that when a politician prefaces a statement with, "let me be clear," chances are good that he's going to be anything but.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    3. Re:doublespeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? When what is and what is not a criminal is arbitrarily defined by the people surveiling through secret courts and legalese, and where you can be suspected of terrorism for just about anything. Is it honestly fair to say it is just to stop criminals and to process their data?

      http://www.takepart.com/article/2012/02/15/you-may-already-be-fbi-terror-suspect-85-things-not-do

      http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/war/terrorism_war/news.php?q=1323968706

      http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/u-s-military-may-consider-you-a-potential-terrorist-if-you-are-young-use-social-media-or-question-mainstream-ideologies.html

      Setting up our government to have this power, is going to allow them to have the power to crush any and all dissent. Which is a valuable power for those who rule.

      On top of agencies doing things like this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffirstlook.org%2Ftheintercept%2F2014%2F02%2F24%2Fjtrig-manipulation%2F&ei=faZnU7efC-bbyQGnooHwBA&usg=AFQjCNFZnRYlvoVI3VRAwj2WFJdqgmIlaw&bvm=bv.65788261,d.aWc ?

    4. Re:doublespeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? So in other words, we cannot have people talking to each other without the government listening? Because how would they know if they are criminals or not? Here's the deal. If two criminals want to talk without being snooped on, they can. It's as simple as that.

    5. Re:doublespeak by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, this isn't something Obama invented... It's just new to those that were young or uninvolved in the political process. Obama brought in a lot of new voters that could learn what the rest of us did years ago. It's fun to be disappointed by your political heroes for the first time.

      How did that song go?

      We wont be fooled again!
      *pause*
      New boss, same as the old boss.

      So "The Who" figured it out 40 years ago, but we're still re-learning it every 8yrs.

    6. Re:doublespeak by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, this isn't something Obama invented...

      Perhaps not, but he has latched onto it as his personal catch phrase.

      Just like how Bush Sr didn't come up with the phrase, "no new taxes," but when I hear that phrase he immediately springs to mind... or rather, Dana Carvey's dead-on impression of him.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    7. Re:doublespeak by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Just like how Bush Sr didn't come up with the phrase, "no new taxes," but when I hear that phrase he immediately springs to mind... or rather, Dana Carvey's dead-on impression of him.

      I can see Russia from my house!

    8. Re:doublespeak by bobbied · · Score: 2

      "Let me be clear –

      Any statement that starts with that phrase, will be neither clear nor the truth, epically coming from a politician. It's like saying, "To be honest" or "I'm not lying"...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    9. Re:doublespeak by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      We wont be fooled again!
      *pause*
      New boss, same as the old boss.

      Then we get on our knees and pray - we don't get fooled again.
      *pause*

      Meet the new boss! Same as the old boss!

      Oddly enough, I was listening to that song as I got to your post...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:doublespeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that you, Edward Snowden? ;-p

    11. Re:doublespeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See! I told you Jesus was real! Statistics be damned.

    12. Re:doublespeak by operagost · · Score: 1

      Let me be clear, I'm on the right side of history, unlike my opponents, who should get in back and let me drive. Period.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:doublespeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't let them trick you like that. Not only have they spied on you, they actually made you less secure to do that. The NSA has repeatedly been responsible for weakening the cryptography used by their own people. Your serious enemies build their own so this isn't helping make you secure at all.

  7. Eh? by xtal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."

    I don't even know where to begin with this one.

    Don't worry. The internet will deal with this because there's money on the line, and the US should understand this. If you start with a base assumption everything is being recorded and monitored, then you can build systems that have protections against that designed in from the start. Math is awesome.

    The outcome from this will be an even harder to stop internet. This may have be an unintended effect, but may end up being a net positive gain for personal liberty in the long run. History is full of reasons why this is a good thing, and why we must never lower our guard.

    Interesting times.

    --
    ..don't panic
    1. Re:Eh? by jbrown.za · · Score: 1

      This would mean a whole lot more if Obama hadn't spent months defending the current practices ...

      I guess that this is good news for Edward Snowden. The US is clearly not a place where he would go to jail for holding the government to account?!?

    2. Re:Eh? by CRCulver · · Score: 2

      If you start with a base assumption everything is being recorded and monitored, then you can build systems that have protections against that designed in from the start. Math is awesome.

      Math, such as crypto algorithms, is awesome, but implementations are not. Nerds have been aware for well over a decade (the EU Parliament's ECHELON report came out in 2001) that certain states seek to monitor and store as much online communication as possible, but coding practices even in sensitive privacy-defending applications have continued to be lax, as the recent Heartbleed episode shows.

    3. Re:Eh? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Meh. Implementation bugs can be fixed. It's designing for security and privacy that matters, and once we address the flaw that CAs represent, SSL is a pretty good design (and that fix is in the works). That said, I'm a lot less confident in the ability of math to beat guns than the GP. Technology can't work around policy problems, not directly. It can be used to raise awareness so that public opinion can then be used to fix the policy problems.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."

      I don't even know where to begin with this one.

      Easy. "I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined": either it's a typo and he meant "outlived", or this is employed in the meaning "I expect you to ignore my advice and fall flat on your face". The second sentence is just "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the United States". What else should Kerry hope for?

    5. Re:Eh? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      You are assuming the masses are with you. First you lose the propaganda war, then you lose everything else. They'll outlaw Bitcoin. Outlaw TOR. Outlaw VPN. Outlaw proxies. Close down open wifis. If you're not the facebook-posting, cell phone-wearing, credit card using transparent type you'll be targeted. They'll find something because almost everybody breaks the law in some way, then hang you out to dry as another posted child of crooks trying to fly below the radar.

      They don't need to force you to do anything, just give the right incentive. For example if I wanted to go on a bus ride it's now twice as much paying by cash as using electronic cards/app/cell phone, to improve service time and stop robberies. And make it really really stupid to pay in cash unless you really want to hide where you're going. So they get to build a pretty good profile on where you go every day, I suppose it's not a big secret but it's certainly big data. If they can track 95% of the people 95% of the time, they will find the time to find out what those last 5% are.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Eh? by xtal · · Score: 1

      ..they haven't outlawed any of those things, and the technology adoption is growing like wildfire now. Commercial enterprise wants secure commerce, and they're going to get it.

      Never underestimate the almighty dollar.

      --
      ..don't panic
  8. Big Fat Liar by johnsie · · Score: 2

    The US is so far on the wrong side that it is in the ditch.

    1. Re:Big Fat Liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is so far on the wrong side that it is in the ditch.

      So can we put the country into "R" and get OUT of said ditch then?

  9. Sen. McCarthy said the same thing in the 50s by bazmail · · Score: 3, Insightful

    US Gov gives itself a stellar report card. What a surprise.

    1. Re:Sen. McCarthy said the same thing in the 50s by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is true, but 1950s or today, I'll take the US over anywhere else. See, all governments give themselves stellar marks. Very few can make a case they even partially deserve it.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Sen. McCarthy said the same thing in the 50s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anywhere else?

    3. Re:Sen. McCarthy said the same thing in the 50s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true, but 1950s or today, I'll take the US over anywhere else. See, all governments give themselves stellar marks. Very few can make a case they even partially deserve it.

      Such a comment does nothing but reveal your ignorance of the world.

    4. Re:Sen. McCarthy said the same thing in the 50s by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      You sure you've actually thought that through? Sure, I'd probably pick the US before Russia, or Ukraine, or most of Africa, or the Middle East... but contrarily to what the US govt would like you to think, there's more than war-torn countries, drug cartels and fanatics in the world. I'd pick a solid number of countries in Europe before the US, like France, the UK or Germany, and I'd probably stay here in Canada before all of those. Yes, they all have their own problems, but I think the US is very close to a precipice and you guys are giving no signs of stopping the march forward.

    5. Re:Sen. McCarthy said the same thing in the 50s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OTOH, there is what Carl Schurz said:

      "My country, right or wrong " ... and then the part 'they' often forget:

      "if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schurz

  10. ahem by Major+Blud · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "And that's why he ordered a thorough review of all our signals intelligence practices after they were leaked to the world."

    FTFY.

    --
    If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    1. Re:ahem by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      We need to review the process and prevent such leaks from ever happening again.

    2. Re:ahem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are right man http://zencleansetrusted.com/

    3. Re:ahem by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's what he was saying in his head as he made this statement. They've raised the level of the half truth to a new art form, now it's like a quarter truth or less, and the scary thing is, they can actually say it with conviction and a straight face. This is nothing new to me though, those with a golden tongue such as Obama often hide behind their words while those who listen mindlessly swoon and cheer. These guys are just intelligent enough to be devious.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  11. STFU, you goddamned liar. by jcr · · Score: 3, Informative

    one vision that respects freedom and another that denies it. ... and we all know which side the Ketchup Gigolo is on.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  12. Bingo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And in other news, a high-ranking Walmart representative assures us that Walmart is on the right side of consumerism. Furthermore, lo and behold, a high-ranking Exxon Mobil representative assures us that Exxon is on the right side of environmentalism.

    1. Re:Bingo by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      Walmart saves the American consumer well over $200 billion a year, greatly exceeding as a benefit all the "corporate welfare" charges ladled on it, "to help their underpaid employees".

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Bingo by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1, Troll

      And they use a lot of their money to push corporation control of the education system (e.g. corporate run charter schools). After all, what better way to prep the next generation of loyal consumers than by getting to them (and making a profit off them) young?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:Bingo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just one store costs the American taxpayer about $1 million in Medicaid expenses.

      Two years after a Walmart opens, two thirds of the businesses in the area have shuttered.

    4. Re:Bingo by dcw3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Care to show us publicly run schools that do better? I'm seriously in favor of govt. oversight of the corporate flavor, but lack of competition has degraded our public system into a nearly useless shithole.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    5. Re:Bingo by koreanbabykilla · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

    6. Re:Bingo by zugmeister · · Score: 4, Informative

      Citation needed.

      Well, I had to get to page two of a google search on "Walmart Makes Stores Close" before I started coming to articles with numbers from sources I'd heard about, but here you'll find this quote:
      "A study published in 2008 in the Journal of Urban Economics examined about 3,000 Walmart store openings nationally and found that each store caused a net decline of about 150 jobs (as competing retailers downsized and closed) and lowered total wages paid to retail workers.".

      This article was interesting to read but for those averse to clicking the link:
      "But the closer a store was to the Walmart location, the greater the likelihood it would close. Persky and his colleagues found that for every mile closer to the Walmart, 6 percent more stores closed. Close in around the store's location, between 35 and 60 percent of stores closed.
      And depending on the type of business, the impact of a Walmart moving in can be much worse. Persky says that the per-mile closure rate increase for drugstores is almost 20 percent. For home furnishings, it's about 15 percent. For hardware stores, it's about 18 percent per mile. For toys, it's more than 25 percent per mile.".

      Really, that's all the time I'm willing to invest in refuting the idea that somehow WalMart fosters a diverse / thriving / healthy business ecosystem.

    7. Re:Bingo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out New Zealand. Our publicly run schools did much, much, much better until the neoliberals in charge decided that we needed corporate sponsorship for those same schools. To make it attractive for corporate sponsors, they've also removed the requirement for teacher qualifications for pre-schools, for a certain number of pupils.

  13. Arrogant, incompetent boob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    John Kerry in 1971 Doonesbury comics

    Some things never change

  14. sure, but.. by VMaN · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If that is the case, be honest about it.
    "Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security CAN come at the expense of cyber privacy."

    See? Now THAT would be an honest statement, and I could rightfully criticize it.

    1. Re:sure, but.. by gamanimatron · · Score: 1
      You missed a word:

      "Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security CAN ONLY come at the expense of cyber privacy."

      But as many others have noted, attempts are made to obscure or even reverse the perception of this tradeoff at every level. Heaven forbid anyone outside of our government should have to make an informed decision about this.

      --
      cogito ergo dubito
  15. Absolutely transparent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Absolutely transparent" is not possible when talking about a security agency. So everything he says is complete bullshit. What a sorry ass liar. The NSA has proven that they do not even care about laws. And he wants to discuss laws to stop them from doing bad thins? Yeah, that seems like the proper way forward.

    1. Re:Absolutely transparent? by Frobnicator · · Score: 1

      So everything he says is complete bullshit. What a sorry ass liar.

      He is Secretary of State. His job is to deceive and lie on an international scale. Like most of the senior politicians, his skills in doublespeak, deception, mischaracterization, and outright lies are outstanding.

      Go read the actual transcript. Much of it is ambiguous generic "lofty ideals" and "we are committed to" and "we believe in" rhetoric. There are many "we believe" and "we trust" and "we need to" statements. Like most speeches from that level of government, signal-to-rhetoric level is rather terrible.

      His conclusion "we need to make sure that all of us together wind up on the right side of history" is just one of many generic truisms. Recall that one of the spoils of victory is writing the history books, so basically his speech is "the US government needs to win this battle, that way we can be right."

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    2. Re:Absolutely transparent? by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      Snowden's been the more opaque one so far compared to the NSA. Unlike the NSA, he's doing everything to avoid accountability, while the NSA has been more open about itself than ever.

      But dont let that little detail get in the way of your rant.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  16. censorship is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's still obsoletely fatal spiritual suicide http://www.youtube.com/results... as in uncreative

  17. History is nice, but... by chiknkoop · · Score: 1

    With domestic spying, and the allowing of things like the Comcast-Netflix deal, what side are we on for the future?

  18. What is the point of posting this article? by amosh · · Score: 0

    Just to give people something to fling tomatoes at?

    1. Re:What is the point of posting this article? by ButchDeLoria · · Score: 1

      It's the Two Minutes of Hate, brought to you by Emmanuel Goldstein.

  19. Stop policing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ".... including on electronic surveillance, in a world where we know there are terrorists and others who are seeking to do injury to all of us."

    Here's a crazy thought: How about you stop starting wars, being the unwanted world-police, and generally just conclude that the world doesn't need your dictation. Maybe then people would stop hating you and trying to "do injury [sic]".
    Final conclusion: no meddling = no hate = no need for NSA.

    Yours anonymously,

    Coward

    1. Re:Stop policing! by StevenMaurer · · Score: 2

      Here's a crazy thought: How about you stop starting wars, being the unwanted world-police, and generally just conclude that the world doesn't need your dictation.

      Every time the U.S. tries to stop being the world policeman and something bad happens (like the genocide in Rwanda), the world asks "where was the U.S.? Why didn't you stop it?"

      I know this is a "hate on the US for having signal intelligence spies, like every other major nation has, and has always had" thread, but exactly like how everybody hates traffic cops, just try to live in a world without them.

    2. Re:Stop policing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then appoint some other nation as the world police. Maybe have a rotation roster, decided by the G8 or something.

      that way the burden of being "the pigs" is shared by all.

    3. Re:Stop policing! by amaurea · · Score: 1

      Every time the U.S. tries to stop being the world policeman and something bad happens (like the genocide in Rwanda), the world asks "where was the U.S.? Why didn't you stop it?"

      [citation needed]

      How about letting the UN do what international policing is needed? That way there is a world consensus behind the policing that gets done, instead of a single country doing what's at best vigilantism. And as a bonus, the USA won't be creating so many enemies of itself all the time.

    4. Re:Stop policing! by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. There may be some idiots online who suggest things like that but basing yourselves on these to engage in whatever military action that advances your interests is disingenuous.

      You're not policing Bahrain nor many other of your allied countries when there are cries for help so don't pretend the US Government gives a fuck about people asking "why don't you stop it".

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
  20. Hey by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mr. Kerry,

    We do not need a panopticon, either real-world or virtual on the Internet. And there are solid reasons never to build one. See the writings of your forefathers in government, or George Orwell.

    If it doesn't exist, and government is forbidden from making it, it can't possibly be misused. It's the same reason nobody should ever build a "continent buster" cobalt bomb.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Hey by Xaedalus · · Score: 0

      The Russians have built "continent buster" cobalt bombs. It's their Doomsday weapon, per Fred Kaplan, built to guarantee that the Rodina will never fall to an invader, like it almost did to Nazi Germany. Just the mere presence of those makes me think that we need to be able to have intelligence gathering capabilities to insure we know where those are, and if someone else is attempting to build them. I don't know where the balance is between freedom and security, nor do I know how many billions of lives would have to be lost before we find that line, but it's a conversation we should have.

      --
      Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
    2. Re:Hey by stewsters · · Score: 2

      If they have a doomsday device, they will tell us. There is no point in building a doomsday device if your opposition doesn't know you have it.

      See the movie "Dr Strangelove" for reasons why.

    3. Re:Hey by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      But, it was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises!

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:Hey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no balance. If the constitution does not explicitly give the government a certain power, it does not have it. Spying on foreign enemies is something that the government has the power to do. Spying on citizens is not.

      It is not accept to infringe upon people's fundamental liberties to keep them safe, no matter how real the security is. There cannot be a "balance"; we're supposed to be 'the land of the free and the home of the brave,' not the land of the worthless cowards who sacrifice their freedom for security and then pretend they're free.

    5. Re:Hey by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Slightly off-topic, but for anyone who hasn't seen Dr. Strangelove, see it. It's hilarious! Peter Sellers is amazing.

    6. Re:Hey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason that line is so hard to find is that there are too many ancillary laws that come up in that search for "continent busters" or WMD's or something else that probably should be strongly regulated. I can't walk around with a harmless dried herb in my pocket or I run the risk of being "searched for WMD's" on the train and put in jail to fistfight with career criminals over ramen noodles and have my anal cavity fingered by police officers in the basement of some cement labyrinth. This may be anecdotal, but it is reality and has happened to me from the age of 17 to 25 with surprising regularity. Maybe I have bad luck, I don't know. You could replace herb with countless other petty offenses. There are more laws than one could feasibly ever know. I live in Georgia, (the US state) and we can carry guns in our vehicles provided they are stored in the 'center console, glove compartment, or in plain sight'. Bicycles are considered 'slow moving vehicles' here and legal on non-interstate roads. I planned a long bike trip into the middle of nowhere and wanted to bring a gun for protection from situations like in "Easy Rider" or "Deliverance" (neither are far off the mark here). I stopped by the law library to try and find out if I could legally carry a gun on my bicycle somewhere, but could not find any clear precedent. I asked a police officer in the courthouse if it would be illegal and he said he wasn't sure. I was kind of pissed at that response, so I rephrased:"Would you arrest someone for carrying a gun on a bicycle?". He said he wasn't sure and it would depend on what they were doing. I asked two other cops and got similar responses. It was almost like they were trained to not directly answer a question. I asked a lawyer and she wasn't sure either. So I never found out and decided I would just risk being held up or worse and left the gun at home. I live in downtown Atlanta now, with some of the worst crime anywhere, and I am equally concerned with watching out for police as with street thugs.

    7. Re:Hey by Xaedalus · · Score: 1

      They HAVE told us. Fred Kaplan did a huge write-up of it in his book on nuclear war, plus a piece on Slate about a year back.

      --
      Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
  21. Bit Flip: J. Edgar Hoover and McCarthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    American history is full of examples where the guys in charge don't really care about the American People. The tools and frameworks being laid down today are powerful anti-terrorist tools, but all it takes is for another J. Edgar Hoover to bit flip the system and completely annihilate his enemies.

  22. Ha Ha, Charade You Are by Jahoda · · Score: 1

    Ah yes, the man picked to lose to GWB, the "get Hilary out before she can't be elected in 2016"-shield, Mr. Company Man's Company Man, Mr. 1%er's 1%-er wants me to know that the US, as ever, has got my back with this freedom shit, yo.

  23. Thomas Jefferson said.... by ToasterTester · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

    1. Re:Thomas Jefferson said.... by tom229 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sadly, I don't think the government has feared the people in quite some time. Even worse, I've noticed an increasing trend of this generation looking towards the government as a sort of surrogate parent to take care of them in their adult lives. We have big brother, because we've asked for it.

      --
      If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    2. Re:Thomas Jefferson said.... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...I don't think the government has feared the people in quite some time.

      Not since the Whiskey Rebellion...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Thomas Jefferson said.... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I weep too because the US gets what she deserves. :-((((

      The problem and solution is in the mirror: The cause of apathy.

  24. On the right side of history? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Kerry Says US Is On the "Right Side of History" When It Comes To Online Freedom

    Bollocks.

    1. Re:On the right side of history? by greenwow · · Score: 1

      Kerry Says US Is On the "Right Side of History" When It Comes To Online Freedom

      Bollocks.

      Oh please. If it wasn't for the Democrats in the US, there would be no freedom on the Internet because there wouldn't have been an Internet. Imagine a Republican group like AOL or Microsoft's attempt at a Network being used instead of the Internet. That is what the Republicans wanted for us. They hatre the Internet and everyone that makes a living with it. They are full of hate. They try to make everything about politics which is why they have politicized the Internet. You can't blame the Democrats for what the Republicans have done to us.

  25. Leak their secrets go to jail by Flicker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "go to jail rather than win prizes"

    Kerry doesn't seem to have noticed that our government, particularly his boss's administration, is not giving prizes to leakers but rather jailing them. In particular Snowden's prize did not come from the U.S. government, but the mad scramble to capture and punish him certainly did.

    --
    this is not a sig
    1. Re:Leak their secrets go to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "go to jail rather than win prizes"

      Kerry doesn't seem to have noticed that our government, particularly his boss's administration, is not giving prizes to leakers but rather jailing them.

      He did not overlook anything.

      "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."

      Which is just long for "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the U.S.A." like any true patriot would wish. The government is doing its part by raining death and destruction on brown subhumans in Jemen and Pakistan in order to remind them of the U.S.A., but that cannot be everything.

  26. its just an attempt at damage control by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

    what do you expect them to do or say?

    there has been enough talk about the US 'losing the cloud' and this hurts BUSINESS. that finally got their attention.

    now, if they will do anything real about our national conversation about online privacy, that I kind of doubt. we are essentially having the conversation amongst ourselves, but no one who can make laws is really stepping up to meet us and talk honestly about this.

    so, we're at step-1, I guess. we admit there is a problem (ie, loss of business revenue, now and in the future) and they are scrambling how to best 'fix' this and yet not really fix it where it counts.

    we don't trust you and we may never trust you again. but lets see if anything does change. maybe economics, over a long enough time, could course-correct us and put us back on the freedom track again.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    1. Re:its just an attempt at damage control by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      we are essentially having the conversation amongst ourselves, but no one who can make laws is really stepping up to meet us and talk honestly about this.

      I'm really curious how the next two elections will go. I imagine every candidate is going to have to answer the question, "where do you stand on warrantless wiretapping and the collection of email and phone data for all Americans?" I wonder how many (if any) votes incumbents who voted against defunding the NSA's collection efforts or voted for the Patriot Act will lose? Their opponents will certainly make an issue of it.

      The next two elections will really decide the future of privacy. If a candidate (like Obama) who thinks spying on every American is just fine wins, then he will have a "mandate" to continue and expand such programs, and we will know privacy is truly dead and the fourth amendment is worthless. I'm not saying a candidate who promises to dismantle the apparatus of the surveillance state will actually do so once elected, just like Obama kept his promise to close Gitmo, but at least America will have expressed its displeasure at being ass-raped rather than begging for more.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:its just an attempt at damage control by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 1

      elections will go the same way as ever. You'll get 2 candidates and any other one will get trashed because "he's not going to win".

      Those 2 candidates will be mercilessly attacked by each camp to to pander to their own. People will vote for the economy or X social issue (or fear of "The others") and the policies will stay pretty much the fucking same as they were.

      Depending on the image and party of the president we might see more outrage or opposition to certain things but it will be mostly posturing (see all the liberal bush attackers who ended up hailing Obama for the very same things, or worse).

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
  27. Aren't you supposed to be on the left? by jandrese · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, I agree that this administration is on the right side of history, but this is very annoying to people who elected them to be on the left! It's pretty annoying when the only two realistic candidates are the right and far right candidates.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
    1. Re:Aren't you supposed to be on the left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is what you get when you live in an Oligarchy. Please just be quiet and "make sure that all of us together wind up on the right side of history".

      I'm sorry for you guys.

    2. Re:Aren't you supposed to be on the left? by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      It's pretty annoying when the only two realistic candidates are the right and far right candidates.

      Just because they've rigged the system doesn't mean they're the only "realistic" options. Moreso when the Democrats are pushing right-wing policies that Republicans couldn't get elected to enact.

    3. Re:Aren't you supposed to be on the left? by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

      If they are both on the right, why were they both in favor of expanding government?

  28. Sure by ichthus · · Score: 1

    ...but, don't look back. Look forward. Let's keep the freedom intact.

    --
    sig: sauer
  29. Is he ignorant, stupid, or lying? by alispguru · · Score: 2

    Unfortunately those are the only three choices here.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
    1. Re:Is he ignorant, stupid, or lying? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Pick any two? Problem is some of them are all three at the same time.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  30. Double speak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The freedom they talk about is the freedom for you to do what they tell you.
    Fuck you I won't do what you tell me.

    1. Re:Double speak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want you to keep bitching on web forums as an AC. I want you to keep the will to live. Under no circumstances are you allowed to kill yourself and definitely not as soon as possible.

      --The Obama Administration

  31. obama admin is funny by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    they say nice things and then continue the bush/cheney agenda. fascism.

  32. He never said it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just don't know what makes him think that the current administration is on the "respect freedom" side of things.

    At no point he said explicitly this administration is on the freedom side. 1st rules of politics : make the reader read something he thinks he might read but in reality do not say anything. Reader are probably all assuming *what* the right side is. The funny things is, kerry at no point really explicitly said it.

  33. Meaningless drivel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My understanding is that Obama was a major signatory of these powers and now is trying to distance himself through his voice piece (VP) ; )
    The government no longer needs the majority vote as citizen united allows unlimited corporate money so We the People no longer need be consulted regarding our interests or intentions. We will be informed by the corporatocracy of the US what our beliefs are to be. And the government corporate partnership wants all your data, forget the laws of the land and your right to privacy.

  34. Let me be clear by Taylor123456789 · · Score: 0

    I simply have no idea what John Kerry said of substance here.

  35. Sum up by tom229 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, if I can sum up his entire speech in a sentence:

    "Hey, we're not as evil as a lot of other countries out there! PS. Turrirrists"

    --
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  36. Kerry is irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What Kerry says should be taken with the understanding that Kerry
    is a man who doesn't understand the idea of actually serving his
    country.

    Kerry serves himself by saying whatever seems to be politically expedient.

  37. Today in America by GlennC · · Score: 1

    Anybody still want to argue that there are major differences between the two major political parties here in America?

    --
    Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
    1. Re:Today in America by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Yes.

      the Republicans are richer than the Democrats. The Democrats are disorganized housecats. The Republicans tend to be more organized and directed towards a single broadly defined goal.

      Both sides will fuck over the poor (bottom 80%) in a heartbeat to make their Corporate masters happy.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Today in America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Political parties in the US are like an orchestra. One side plays these instruments while the other side plays their instruments. What matters is that it's all the same song.

  38. Hamilton *TO* Jefferson; strangely pertinent today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged against provisions against danger, real or intended, from abroad." - James Madison to Thomas Jefferson, May 1798

  39. Ya. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I believe I speak for the entirety of humanity when I say, "No John. Fuck off, you puppet."

  40. Right:sizing by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    Lets not hold back progress with regressive definition of the English Language, mmmkay?

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  41. Hilarious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."

    That's HILARIOUS that he said that, because if the government had its way, Snowden would be in jail right now. He would not have won any prizes. Yet the fact that Snowden eluded capture and then won recognition for his action is now being trumpeted by the United States as a human rights victory? HILARIOUS!

  42. Red Flag Phrase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've noticed that "Let Me Be Clear" is something of a trigger phrase.

    To the media, it means "We expect you to treat the following statements as fact. Plan accordingly".
    To the rest of us it means "We are about to lie to you more concisely than usual. However, you should pay attention because this will apply to you".
     

  43. Getting ahead of himself by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    History is written by the victors. However for this guy to proclaim "victory" by starting to write the history already, before the "battles" have even begun, is a little presumtuous

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  44. more choices by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    There may be only three categories, but there's nothing to say he only fits one of them

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  45. My usual test by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have a normal test for "wrong side of history" that I divised by looking at the arguments made from the wrong side of history. It doesn't work on this for reasons that will become apparent.

    1. This only applies to public debates. Debates entirely among elites don't count.
    2. Ignore all arguments coming from emotional appeals. There's emotion on both sides of right and wrong, and these arguments just muddy the water.
    3. Whoever cites more tradition or "stability" in their arguments (proportionally) is going to be wrong.

    It's amazingly good at identifying the people doing terrible things, and will be brushed aside by progress.

    1. Re:My usual test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. Whoever cites more tradition or "stability" in their arguments (proportionally) is going to be wrong.

      So it's important to you that mankind disregard all lessons learned from history before setting his course toward the future? Really? More likely you just listen to John Stewart and SNL to help you decide who's a "bad guy" and who's a "good guy"

    2. Re:My usual test by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      I have a normal test for "wrong side of history" that I divised by looking at the arguments made from the wrong side of history. It doesn't work on this for reasons that will become apparent.

      1. This only applies to public debates. Debates entirely among elites don't count.
      2. Ignore all arguments coming from emotional appeals. There's emotion on both sides of right and wrong, and these arguments just muddy the water.
      3. Whoever cites more tradition or "stability" in their arguments (proportionally) is going to be wrong.

      It's amazingly good at identifying the people doing terrible things, and will be brushed aside by progress.

      I suspect your litmus test depends on particular definitions of what having been on the right side means, and on what constitutes progress.

      But I doubt we're all in agreement regarding those definitions.

    3. Re:My usual test by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      The lessons we've learned are often in direct contradiction of tradition.

    4. Re:My usual test by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Obviously there's subjectivity to it. I don't proclaim to be an oracle or arbiter of goodness. And I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

      But if one goes back to what the KGB or Nazis were doing, those traditionalist arguments were all over the place.
      One only needs to look at the arguments presented by slave states in their statements of secession to see the arguments from tradition blown up large.

    5. Re:My usual test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite the opposite. KGB and Nazis were working under the auspices of regimes founded on REVOLUTION, citing failed traditions as their rally point. Shit, you fail at history.

    6. Re:My usual test by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.

      Lenin? Yeah. He said shit like that. Stalin, wanting to seem like Lenin? Him too. The fucking KGB, though?? Have you read anything ever written by any kgb directors in defense of their actions?

      Take a look at how KGB decision making actually occured and acknowledge how wrong you are.

    7. Re:My usual test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit.

      lol nope. Your book does nothing but help you ignore how poor your argument was. It uses the word "Tradition" only once, and not in the context you put it. It never uses the word "stability". That leaves your argument naked. You base your sense of "right and wrong" on whim and instability rather than tradition and stability. You should really stop typing.

    8. Re:My usual test by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Control-f isn't the same as reading comprehension my anonymous friend.

  46. Kerry is old guard.... by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    He is an extremely rich person that wants the poor watched. All rich people think this way. Keep those grubby poor people away from my money. And yes you Making $80K a year, you are one of the "grubby poor" to these people.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Kerry is old guard.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > No, you're simply an ignorant jealous troll.

      How is he ignorant? He didn't make a factual or factually incorrect statement. He made a simplified generalization which can serve as a model for what we observe (in the US). You then went all *whargglebarggle* for no apparent reason. I award you -1

    2. Re:Kerry is old guard.... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

      I think to be technical his wife is extremely rich, he's just 'wealthy'. :)

  47. Actually, you're all looking at this wrong... by dsavage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He said that America will be on the right side of history... and it probably will. You have to remember that "History is written by the winners." - George Orwell

  48. US over anywhere else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > I'll take the US over anywhere else.

    This is all well and good. But why do you take the US over anywhere else? Just because you have the right to unwrong wrongs.

    So fucking make use of that right, before it disappears. This right was achieved with blood, remember.

    A couple of wrongs to unwrong: Gitmo. Manning in jail. Snowden in exile. Drones killing people by just their IME, no judicial oversight. So start now!

  49. OK, so we're all pissed... by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now what? Are people going to engage in any kind of activism at all or vent on Slashdot? People simply don't give a crap about privacy and the polls show it. Everyone has the "hey, I'm not a terrorist so why should I care?" attitude.

    I've been trying to maintain it for my own online experience and the tracking is insanely pervasive. I can't even create a YouTube account without giving out my phone number. I've actually written my representatives to complain about it, but I know I'm in a small, quiet minority in this country. I just get tired of reading all the incensed comments and articles about the loss of online privacy when it amounts to nothing more than another rant.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:OK, so we're all pissed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is going to do anything. The worst that will happen is the majority will say "He's a big meanie!" and do nothing further. They may go as far as "poopie head" but really, that's it.

  50. More accurate summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Addressing the audience at the Freedom Online Coalition Conference, Secretary of State John Kerry defended NSA snooping actions saying: 'Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy. And we all know this is a difficult challenge. But I am serious when I tell you that we are committed to bullshitting it in an absolutely inclusive and transparent manner, both at home and abroad. As President Obama has made clear, just because we can bullshit doesn't mean that we should bullshit. And that's why he ordered a thorough bullshit of all our bullshit practices. And that's why he then, after bullshitting it and bullshitting it and openly bullshitting in a conversation about it, which is unlike most countries on the planet, he announced a set of concrete and meaningful bullshit, including on electronic surveillance, in a world where we know there are bullshit and others who are seeking to bullshit all of us. And finally, bullshit – the principles governing such bullshit need to be understood so that free people can bullshit them and play their part in shaping bullshit. And we believe bullshit can positively help us to distinguish bullshit from the legitimate bullshit. And while I expect you to hold the United States to the bullshit that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who bullshit go to jail rather than win prizes.' He added: 'This bullshit is about two very different visions: one vision that bullshits and another that bullshits. All of you at the Freedom Online Coalition are on the right side of this bullshit, and now we need to make sure that all of us together wind up on the right side of history."

  51. Liar or Fool? by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "And while I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes." - Kerry

    Does he live in such a powerful echo chamber / reality distortion field that he actually believes what he is saying, or does he have such disdain for the citizens that he is comfortable saying the opposite of what is true, to try to squeeze out a few extra votes from those who don't know any better?

    The reply to my letter to the FCC regarding Net Neutrality opened with, "Dear Consumer,", and was purportedly from Tom Wheeler. That's what I am? Not a citizen, but a consumer -- a wallet on legs, to be pried open to get at the sweet, delicious money inside? Equal access to communications doesn't matter, as long as the video entertainment circuses gets a fast lane to keep us numb and the subscription cash flowing. To Kerry perhaps it is the same; I am just a vote, to be manipulated in whatever way necessary to serve the greater good. I wonder if both of them open letters to their spouses, "Dear Vagina." The sad truth is I've had the fortune to know some powerful people, and I wouldn't put that last beyond them were they more candid, and less possessed of glib and alluring insincerity. Perhaps the most telling thing is when a reply that opens, "Dear Consumer" shows that they no longer even grasp what the charade is meant to portray.

    We are not the consumers, nor the electorate. We are The People. The government is Ours. I tremble to consider the road between here and their understanding of that.

    1. Re:Liar or Fool? by robinsonne · · Score: 1

      Does he live in such a powerful echo chamber / reality distortion field that he actually believes what he is saying, or does he have such disdain for the citizens that he is comfortable saying the opposite of what is true, to try to squeeze out a few extra votes from those who don't know any better?

      Yes, and yes

    2. Re:Liar or Fool? by aralin · · Score: 1

      http://www.monticello.org/site...

      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson.

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
  52. Right Side of Story by gmuslera · · Score: 1, Redundant

    At least if the story looks like 1984, Brave New World, or The Hunger Games

  53. ...up until recently, that is. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My initial interpretation of Kerry's statement (reading between the lines) was that we have been on the right side of this issue up until recent history.

  54. The old mummy John Kerry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is on the wrong side of four mattressed walls.

  55. The only right side of story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is the side on which the people writing it are.

  56. Kerry, the great dissembler. by GT66 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy."

    As in the physical space? So then if "cyber privacy" = physical privacy and "cyber security" = national security then what Kerry is saying is that the US government fully intends to build a police state where every citizen is continuously monitored JUST LIKE in the government does in the cyber world. Because national security cannot come at the expense of personal physical privacy. Good to know.

    "But I am serious when I tell you that we are committed to discussing it in an absolutely inclusive and transparent manner, both at home and abroad."

    Well, now they are since Snowden left them no choice. Funny how they weren't quite so committed *before* they got caught with their hands in the Orwellian cookie jar. BTW - inclusive does not apparently mean "We the people." Kerry seems to be referring more to lobbyists and apparatchiks.

  57. Bafflegab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS"

    Ah, for the good old days. "I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky." Or "Read my lips: No new taxes!" At least those were concise lies, not full paragraphs of hand-waving, signifying nothing.

    BTW, "fact-based evidence?" It's irrelevant, and one does wonder sometimes, of course,but surely this is redundant?

  58. See 'Opening of Japan' and debate it's effects... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the later Japanese involvement in WW1 and WW2.

  59. There is no sides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    History takes no sides, except when the corrupt evil people distort it to have sides.

  60. Mistaken Assumption: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That the warriors out dying are the same ones inciting the violence.

    Just as often it's an administrator who has never seen a battlefield who is starting a war.

    The ones who both administer and fight are usually less likely to throw their men away unless they're sure they can succeed (whether based on mistaken assumptions about their enemies strength or the sociopolitical balance of neutral parties to their conflict.)

    Point is: The people starting these wars are more likely to have offspring who will in turn further this agenda yet again and again for as long as they produce offspring,

  61. Wait, what? by s.petry · · Score: 3

    Stop and consider the Henry Ford business model. Pay people well and they buy your products as well as boost the economy around them so that others can buy your products.

    Now consider the Wallmart business model. Pay people poorly, but sell products cheap enough where they can still survive (not thrive).

    Which is better for our Republic? Obviously the former is better, it was the model that drove us to the top in terms of economy, GDP, innovation, and wealth.

    You should really stop and consider Socrate's Allegory of the Artisan and understand that these issues are not new. Allowing a certain class of people unchecked wealth and government strength to back that wealth is as anti-Republican as you can get.

    Wallmart does no service to anyone but themselves and the others holding wealth and power currently.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  62. transparency by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

    Transparency after it was leaked doesn't count as transparency at all.

    And I'm not convinced we've made it that far.

  63. cough-Snowden-cough by wealthychef · · Score: 1

    "I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes" uh huh, we are really giving Snowden a prize right?

    --
    Currently hooked on AMP
  64. Manning was just a disgruntled employee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except Manning was just disgruntled employee trying to get back his boss because he was in process of being fired.

    And at the time Manning was most definitely a he.

    If Manning hadn't poisoned his own self-righteous efforts by releasing absolutely every document he could get his hands of, I might be sympathetic; but Manning blew it.

  65. A Modest Proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right on, brother! We need to push progress forward! For too long now, baby eating has been unfairly stigmatized, while critical "traditionalists" ignore the fact that they are tender and delicious! Hopefully soon those who oppose us will know that they are on the wrong side of history and change is inevitable!

    1. Re:A Modest Proposal by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Right, because there's a debate going on in the public about baby eating. Congratulations, you can't even apply a simple 3 rule test.

  66. It is not my privacy that worries me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although I don't like the idea of the NSA spying on me, and I believe their actions to be illegal, that is not what worries me. What worries me is the NSA's spying on congress, FBI, CIA, the President, Presidential Candidates, Cabinet Members, Supreme Court Justices, business leaders, Governers, etc.. They will have the dirt on everyone. Where there is no dirt, they can fabricate it.

    The NSA now effectively holds the keys to all the power of the three branches of government. Anyone who opposes the NSA will be subject to character assassination on a scale that makes Nixon's dirty tricks seem like a childhood prank. Will the NSA seek to run government policy? I doubt it, but where policy would infringe on what the NSA would like to do, the NSA will make sure that goes their way. It certainly has so far. No amnesty or deal for Snowden, no restriction on what the NSA does, in short, the biggest revelation of government spying in the history of our country has resulted in absolutely no action whatsoever.

    Game over, well played NSA

  67. I don't think your understanding is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are probably trying to assert that Communism and Fascism are polar opposites on ECONOMICS but the original post is NOT about economics; it's about government control of information, communications, and politics. The previous poster probably was using "Fascism" as a stand-in for NAZI (dodging invocations of Godwin's law) rather than pointing to Benito Mussolini, but even if he really meant to refer to Benito and his ideology, it's STILL not "polar opposite". Mussolini was a socialist, like Hitler, but these two turkeys wanted to keep their national identities so they clung to nationalism as part of their beliefs. The differences between these toxic political soups and communism are signufucans in economic terms, BUT that's not the subject of this discussion. The previous poster (like the original poster) being focused on issues of freedom, privacy, and government intrusion was perfectly ok in citing fascism and communism (and would have been ok to drag-in NAZIs too) as ALL of these ideologies ultimately lead to governments that can allow no personal privacy and liberty.

    1. Re:I don't think your understanding is better by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Actually I was referring to Mussolini more that the National Socialists. Progressives liked the economic system.

  68. CC'ed To A Senator by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    Terrorists are a threat to our physical wellbeing, our economy, infrastructure, and our piece of mind, though it has not demonstrated that our democratic process can survive with domestic spying.

    Positive political change cannot happen if those preparations are reviled at their inception. Domestic spying allows a political opponent access to their political adversaries intent, which I feel will hinder America's growth.

    I do not believe that anyone who such holds the information gathered from domestic spying can use it in a non-partisan way. Who could be politically neutral enough, altruistic enough to have access, without also using that information for their own political gain?

    America has yet another problem: the National Security Administration itself, for this is an organization that has run unchecked and unbound by one of the most sacred principles of our U.S. Constitution; the NSA is an organization without checks and balances. There is no method for a United States citizen to defend themselves from action which cannot be disclosed; this, in my opinion is not an American structure, not organization in the intent and aspiration of the drafters of our Constitution.

    The ramifications of a nuclear, chemical, or biological attack against our people are great. I know you must answer to yourself and those people who might be lost. Yet, I am also fearful of how those same terrorists might use the information gained from domestic spying should it ever slip from the NSA's grasp. As someone considered a computer expert, I know that can happen; the fact that NSA was owned by a single idealistic American, proves that point.

    Lastly, the actual social structure of an entire country has never been so well known; the NSA is running an experiment. In my mind, I feel that it is the government's purpose to maintain peace and create unity--not to invoke fear and distrust. Each day in the news, I see the effort to stop Edward Snowden. Now we all know the NSA's business, and they do not like being spied on any more than we do. We are people. We, as Americans have unalienable rights. Respectfully, I say to you, the NSA has clearly violated the 4th Amendment. We will now watch the NSA work to protect itself like any organic structure, and as someone shunned by society, looking from the outside in, I am fearful and brokenhearted by what I see.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  69. Well, if you want to catch the proverbial bad guys by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Giving up the lead on an intelligence service is not justified by the harmful actions of a former contractor turned against his country.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  70. Re: Not Irony. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    So, Snowden isn't due for jail-time if he were to return to the USA, Mr. Kerry?

    Rhetorical question. It's an answer that only serves as a shibboleth - whether you want to see law enforced, or that you think that it's OK for a criminal to live amongst our enemies.

    And why has the Obama administration brought charges against more whistleblowers than all other administrations combined? (Six by Obama, three by all previous administrations combined)

    That signals an increased effectiveness of spotting and acting on unauthorized disclosures.

    Of course, people would rather disappear this criticism like some would like to disappear Snowden. How ironic.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  71. Kerry is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kerry is wrong.

    The United States stands now at the crossroads. Down one path leads reform of the totalitarian police state, money-is-speech legislative and judicial systems and rampaging security agencies. Down the other path lies a version of the United States that is so abusive toward 'subversives' that it would make north korean nationalists blush.

  72. Let's get thing one thing straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To a reasonable individual, "respecting freedom" always results in a loss of power for government, Human Nature 101.

  73. Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People act like Obama created bad politics. I think the US is one of the best places to live in the world but remember before Obama was born... the US allowed slavery, interment of the Japanese, prohibition of all alcohol, denied women the right to vote, denied marriage between people of different races....not exactly a stellar record.

    The US is not perfect, never was, never will be. Go ahead and protest, all you want, it will probably made the world a better place, but have some perspective. Obama's like his predecessors better than some worse that others. He'll be gone in a couple of years, get over it.

  74. Nope, you just speak for a vocal minority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    N/T

  75. His betrayal of country is a net negative by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    The US would have been better(and will be) with a "handled" Snowden. Now, he's managed to pass on secrets to hostile countries, while crying the criminal's complaint about being afraid of prosecution.

    Of course, that goes against the current lese majeste.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  76. what he said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ""And while I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes""

    So that's why Snowden is hiding?

    He lived in such a 'free' country and worried about his and other 'freedoms' to the point he copied several files, leaked them to the press, exposing a US led international surveillance/spying ring. More importantly the mass collection of data on any and every US citizen. Exposing every monopolizing tech company in the country, and outside, being hand in hand with the US led spying efforts.

    So if he comes back your going to give him his own tropical paradise? And decorate him with several 'awards & medals'?

  77. Exactly! by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those like Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes.

    Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself.

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  78. Snowden supporters ~= uninformed about clearances by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    If you and others were informed enough about the clearance/classification systems in place, you would correct yourselves for being wrong. If you cant take the heat in cleared work, you are not entitled to kill the country - you ask to be relieved of that responsibility.

    Snowden is the kind of person that should be denied a clearance and kept far away from government employment.

    Of course, everyone would rather do (-infinity, Disagrees with Snowden) than debate it.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  79. Clapper didnt aid/abet hostile foreign countries by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    ...Snowden did to our net detriment, lese majeste be damned.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  80. You wish, resident of a US-hating country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No/Text

  81. "Right" as in "right wing"? by sirlark · · Score: 1

    So the U.S. is on the "Right", as in "right wing", side? I see what you did there. Be prepared to be black bagged for pointing this out to the sheeple...

  82. Re:Snowden supporters ~= uninformed about clearanc by Goaway · · Score: 1

    So what you're saying is, if you feel your work is morally wrong and is hurting the entire nation, you should ask to stop doing it and shut up, because it is clearly right no matter what and you are just too stupid to understand it?

  83. Misquoted by q4Fry · · Score: 1

    He actually said the "write" side of history. As in "In the future, the U.S. will get to reinterpret what is currently the present in order to support the decisions it has made."

  84. Aw phooey by q4Fry · · Score: 1

    You beat me to the joke. This was the first thing I thought when I saw the headline.

  85. Security vs. Privacy by Sciath · · Score: 1

    Seems to me Kerry is speaking out both sides of his mouth. Obviously there needs to be a balance between the two, but the scale should weigh heavily on the side of privacy. The "security" threat is overblown and utilized as a scare tactic. First of all, we ALL need to realize there is no such thing as security; at least not in the sense of near total security that the government would like us to set as an operational standard. No one person[s] can expect to be secure at any give time. And by the government generating the perception that they can make the country "secure" is a smoke screen for evolution of totalitarianism. Security in the true sense of the word can only be approximated by the actions of each individual, taking steps to ensure their own security by being aware of one's surroundings, being prepared for the unexpected, etc. The idea that the government can make us secure is in order to make people more dependent upon government.

    --
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
  86. yet another subject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    he knows nothing about

  87. Re:Snowden supporters ~= uninformed about clearanc by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    if you feel your work is morally wrong and is hurting the entire nation, you should ask to stop doing it and shut up

    That was his judgment, not the proper judgments made by the set of people that asked for the information, developed the systems(for collection & classification), and collected the information. The former party makes theirs mostly on personal feelings, the latter makes it mostly on objectives.

    If you feel that you cannot handle the work that is given to you, it is your duty to step away from that line of work and agree to keep secrets that you agreed to keep secret. If you want to throw away access to one of the last refuges of the technologically inclined US citizen, go right ahead; just don't try to tear apart the country by aiding its foreign enemies.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.