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Norway Is Gamifying Warfare By Driving Tanks With Oculus Rift

Daniel_Stuckey (2647775) writes "Look at Norway, where the Army has started using Oculus Rift to drive tanks with increased visibility, according to the Norwegian TV station tu.no. Four VR cameras are mounted on the sides of the tank to give the soldier inside donning the headset a full 360 degree view of what's going on outside, like X-ray vision. Using cameras to 'see through' a vehicle isn't a new concept; when the hatches are down tanks are notoriously hard to navigate. But the Oculus Rift dev kit is just a fraction of the price of traditional 360-degree camera equipment: Lockheed Martin's F-35 helmet for pilots can cost tens of thousands of dollars."

76 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The latency / integration requirements for the F - 35 are probably a lot more sophisticated.

    1. Re:F-35 by binarylarry · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah it's like "My bike helmet looks like something astronauts wear and it protects my head! Why isn't NASA buying these instead of those expensive space helments?"

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Possibly so. But more likely, Oculus Rift set their prices so that customers can afford it. Lockheed Martin set their prices so that government can proclaim their taxpayers must afford it. Big difference.

    3. Re:F-35 by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      Maybe the F35 flies faster than a tank and needs a stricter latency.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    4. Re:F-35 by Splab · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get that it is a silly comparison, but what's with the negative vibes?

      These guys have come up with a nifty solution to an expensive problem and they are using some awesome geek gear to do so.

    5. Re:F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe the F35 flies faster than a tank and needs a stricter latency.

      With sufficient thrust, the tank flies just fine

    6. Re:F-35 by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The latency / integration requirements for the F - 35 are probably a lot more sophisticated.

      More likely that the NRE is spread across far fewer units.

    7. Re:F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's that, and the F-35 helmets do far more than just a visual display. They're engineered to keep the pilot's noggin safe(OR is not), they keep the pilot oxygenated in high G turns(OR does not), and it's highly integrated with the F35's avionics(OR is not).

      There are good reasons a pilot's helmet costs more than a thousand $$$.

    8. Re:F-35 by binarylarry · · Score: 2

      The tank solution is cool. Suggesting that this could work for something like a jet fighter is hilarious.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    9. Re:F-35 by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      There are well over 4,000 F-35s forecast to be purchased by various countries around the world, with the bulk being purchased by the US - which means that there are probably going to be 20 - 30,000 of these helmets purchased during its lifetime.

    10. Re:F-35 by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      By the time the Occulus has been made combat ready, hardened, with a beefed up resolution necessary for such work, it will probably cost upward of $10k per unit as well.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    11. Re:F-35 by rossdee · · Score: 1

      "There are well over 4,000 F-35s forecast to be purchased by various countries around the world"

      However other countries (besides the USA) don't have the same "never mind the financial crisis, we can't cut defense spending" attitude.
      You'll probably find those orders cut back as the price goes up.

    12. Re:F-35 by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Defense spending is a tiny, tiny fraction of the US budget.

    13. Re:F-35 by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe the F35 flies faster than a tank and needs a stricter latency.

      With sufficient thrust, the tank flies just fine

      A flying tank has been built and tested already: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... ... but even the crazy Russians only tried that once. Nowadays they are paradropping BMD APCs with the crew on board... any volunteers?

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    14. Re:F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One needs to fire the cannon just right to steer the flying tank into a safe landing into a lake.

    15. Re:F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I hope you're being sarcastic....http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

    16. Re:F-35 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Defense spending is a tiny, tiny fraction of the US budget.

      Um... Good point. Well made.

      Hope that's sarcasm, because 22% is not a tiny tiny fraction

    17. Re:F-35 by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "I get that it is a silly comparison, but what's with the negative vibes?"

      FaceBook supports War is what came to my mind.

      Hopefully the tank driver won't get some ads blended in when he' s trying to survive.

    18. Re:F-35 by kyrsjo · · Score: 1

      I think they said so in the video as well, when they where talking about how much this cost related to how much the finished version would likely cost. This is very much a proof-of-concept - it looks like the cameras are literally duck-taped to the vehicle.

    19. Re:F-35 by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Read the last sentence of the summary. Something can be said without saying it.

      You are reading it wrong. The sentence suggest future potential (and which would obviously require future research/improvement/refinement.)

      Not. The. Same. Thing.

  2. Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It refers to turning something that would otherwise be uninteresting into a game in order to make it more interesting for participants.

    1. Re:Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...Or at least adding game-like elements, like scorekeeping or achievements.

      But you're right that this isn't gamification because it does not add any elements of gaming to the activity. It's a digital head-mounted display system for a tank, like the one in the F35. If there were an attack helicopter controlled with a dual-analog gamepad, that wouldn't be gamification either.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by Xest · · Score: 1

      Maybe the Occulus setup in these tanks makes score numbers fly out of people's corpses when you gun them down and if you get multi kills throws up text like "RAMPAGE", and "KILLING SPREE" in the middle of the display?

    3. Re:Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by ComputersKai · · Score: 1

      Achievement Unlocked! 5 Kills with a single Shell!

    4. Re:Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by Xest · · Score: 1

      I think this needs further investigation. I bet I could easily find funding for a paper entitled "Does gamifying war make soldiers better, more efficient killers?".

    5. Re:Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 1

      You're not familiar with practical shooting sports. Yes, gamifying it makes some people more efficient killers.

      Without gamifying, people take killing to seriously. They just learn what they are taught, and worry about screwing up.

      When we made practical shooting a game, people looked for ways to win, and we invented CQB.

    6. Re:Gamifying doesn't mean what you think it means. by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

  3. Re:Point of war? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

    When you win a virtual war, you gain virtual territories and virtual natural resources. Also, in a virtual war, you don't have real innocent civilian casualties, which is what's so much fun with wars.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  4. Can we just kill that word? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Gamify" is such an ugly neologism, even in the situations it was coined to cover (ie. the ones where a non-game task is dressed up in game-style features by some means), that it really should be taken out and shot. In this case, they aren't even 'gamifying'. They're just experimenting with COTS gear as a, presumably cheaper, presentation system for the stitched-together output of the exterior cameras. That doesn't make the situation somehow more game-like.

    1. Re:Can we just kill that word? by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Another word would just rise to replace it.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Can we just kill that word? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      At least they didn't drinkify snacks and snackify drinks.

  5. Re:Jamming in real war... by xtal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You've just realized why autonomous drones are necessary; they can't be jammed.

    If you're broadcasting a 1 MW jamming signal, you are a pretty bright light for HARM missiles or other radar-seeking technology. More sophisticated schemes or ECM are possible, but the physics is pretty clear on how you track down a broadcast location.

    --
    ..don't panic
  6. Science fiction becomes reality? by Tolvor · · Score: 1

    The first thing that I thought of when reading the article was the scifi novel "A Boy And His Tank" (Leo Frankowski), or maybe a slight echo of the ending of "Ender's Game" (In short, both follow the plot idea of "Yeah kid, this is a neat game. Blow them up!! Great job. Next battle, um, simulation, is tomorrow."

    Let's see... computer simulated fighter combat (drones), computer simulated tactical combat (robo-soliders), computer simulated tank combat... Meanwhile Iran hacks drone into following its orders and land (oops). May the best hacker win.

  7. Re:Point of war? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Not by playing a video game, but maybe by having robots fighting other robots and destroying robot factories and unmanned bases etc. It could happen in a future full of unmanned war machines where it would be pointless for a person to try to fight a robot.

    See also: Tiny robots in space :-P

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  8. Why is the soldier inside? by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Why is the soldier inside? Shouldn't he be FAR FAR AWAY?!

    1. Re:Why is the soldier inside? by drainbramage · · Score: 5, Funny

      Union requirement.
      Rules are rules.

      --
      No brain, no pain.
    2. Re:Why is the soldier inside? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Because reliable coms on a ground vehicle are hard in a war setting. Planes pretty much always have an unobstructed view of the sky for sat coms. Sat coms are nice and directional. Sat com lag would be a killer in a fast past ground environment.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    3. Re:Why is the soldier inside? by Xest · · Score: 1

      Yeah because nothing screams "great idea" like setting up your tanks so that they're a trivial DDOS away from being surrounded, captured, and taken by the enemy.

    4. Re:Why is the soldier inside? by quipalicious · · Score: 2

      Correct, our stike capability was removed some time ago, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... And we're not really in favor of purchasing the JSF either, although our overlords have other ideas.

    5. Re:Why is the soldier inside? by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      great point! tesla wanted all warfare to be handled by robots

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  9. Stupid analogy by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

    Four VR cameras are mounted on the sides of the tank to give the soldier inside donning the headset a full 360 degree view of what's going on outside, like X-ray vision.

    Or like a window.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Stupid analogy by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      A window is like X-ray vision!

  10. Re:Externally mounted cameras by HornWumpus · · Score: 3

    If you can put a paint grenade on a tank you can also put a Molotov cocktail on the tank.

    Tanks generally operate with infantry support; good luck with that.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  11. Parts of the system is EMP safe, the other parts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is low toy grade. Its amazing! We have found out that the toy grade playthings are actually CHEAPER than the mil spec EMP safe water/dirt/shock/static hardened military counterpart!!!

  12. Would mate well with this item: by advocate_one · · Score: 1
    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  13. With Facebook live-blogging the tank's location... by Chas · · Score: 1

    Driver: Why did I suddenly get a bunch of ads for funeral services and life insurance? FFFFFUUUUUU
    *ARTILLERY STRIKE*

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  14. Re:Point of war? by jythie · · Score: 1

    Virtual war would only work if you had some way to have each side agree to abide by the outcome. However, countries are far more likely to go 'no, I do not agree to loose, now I will hurt you in the real world' and start bombing something.

  15. Re:Parts of the system is EMP safe, the other part by Terrasque · · Score: 2

    Considering the fallback is to drive it just the way it's done every day today, I don't see that as the biggest problem.

    --
    It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
  16. Re:Externally mounted cameras by jythie · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not that much different then usual. A couple of paint bombs can cover up view ports just as easily.

  17. TU != TV Station by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    TU or Teknisk Ukeblad is litterly Technical Week Magazine, a 150+ year old magazine owned by three engineer unions and distributed to their members and other subscribers. As most news outlets, they have a web page with a video section with video extending their written articles. They are not a TV Station.

  18. Re:Jamming in real war... by GNious · · Score: 1

    What costs more? 1MW jamming gear, or HARM missiles?

  19. I wouldn't want it by portwojc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a former M1A1 tank driver I would not want this system at all. I don't need something extra that can go wrong and leave me blind at the wrong time. Imagine yanking all that crap off just to be able to see again. Give it to the commander and let him play with the toy but he'll set it aside I'm sure.

    Tanks are not all that hard to navigate. Plus you're not suppose to get tanks into positions where you have those sorts of problems. If you do then you have the rest of your platoon to help be your eyes. As well as "scratch your back" if you need it.

    1. Re:I wouldn't want it by quipalicious · · Score: 1

      I presume it's a precursor to setting the driver back a few paces from the tank.

    2. Re:I wouldn't want it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes but the M1A1 is different than the Leopard 2 where the driver and commander use the same view. With that said, sometimes it has to be tested before it can be classified as a waste of time. The difference could be that the driver has better situational awareness and able to position himself better or see a combatant with an RPG about to fire on him. I could see a lot of benefits in urban combat situations, not as many in open field.

    3. Re:I wouldn't want it by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      As a former M1A1 tank driver...Give it to the commander and let him play with the toy...

      As a former M1A2 tank commander, I resent your request you insensitive clod!

    4. Re:I wouldn't want it by portwojc · · Score: 1

      Then let's give it to the company commander instead. He needs something to keep him occupied so we can get the job done.

  20. Russian paratroopers are religious (Re:F-35) by mi · · Score: 2

    Nowadays they are paradropping BMD APCs with the crew on board...

    It is not just the BMDs — there is a paradropping church in Russia's arsenal...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  21. Gamification means something different by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

    srsly, who even allows such headlines through?

    1. Re:Gamification means something different by MildlyTangy · · Score: 1

      srsly, who even allows such headlines through?

      Those who are so lazy that they cannot be bothered to even fully type out the word 'seriously'.

      Those people are almost always directly responsible for headline tragedies such as this/

  22. Re:Already did by gl4ss · · Score: 1

    you sure you're not some guy writing anime?

    the concept is old hat.. executing it cheaply isn't that old.

    and in other game war news, swedes are using playstation controllers for artillery rapid control.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  23. Re:Jamming in real war... by xtal · · Score: 1

    The jamming gear, likely by an order of magnitude or two.

    --
    ..don't panic
  24. Train like you fight ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    I don't think combat is the primary concern of this project, but rater safe training and operation of these vehicles here home in Norway where I believe all our tanks are. A few years ago, a tank drove off the road during training mid winter and sank with the operators in a march, and to make sure incidens like that doesn't happen is probably why they are using software and hardware of this class and with this time frame instead of using millions on combat focused systems.

    I doubt its just for training. You have to train the way you fight. You can't expect crews to use oculus during training and then switch to small metal ports during battle.

  25. Re:Jamming in real war... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    What costs more? 1MW jamming gear, or HARM missiles?

    Losing costs more than either.

  26. Re:Parts of the system is EMP safe, the other part by kyrsjo · · Score: 1

    And that it's a prototype. It doesn't make much sense to build the hardened version before you've tested that the concept works.

  27. take it to the next level by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    They should just solve all wars and conflicts with Dance Dance Revolution. I've been saying it for years. That or Starcraft II if it's a korean conflict.

  28. I wouldn't say "gamifying warfare" by harvestsun · · Score: 1

    It's a bit more like "warifying gamefare"

  29. Re:Jamming in real war... by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 1

    What do nuclear reactors have to do with jamming?

    RF jamming just means transmitting noise on certain frequencies, or on all frequencies, or on all frequencies except the ones you plan to use.

    Frequencies, antennas, transmitters, and locations are relevant. How it's powered is not relevant.

    I'm fairly certain a TANK would be a metal box that would block out most RF jamming.

    If I wanted to disrupt this, I would use a rifle (or shrapnel) to take out the cameras.

  30. Re:Externally mounted cameras by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 1

    Paint ballons may not stick to the glass, and require you to get close to throw.

    A rifle can take out a camera at 300 yards.

  31. Facebook for Tanks! by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    Just what you don't want in the heat of battle: friend requests from Zuck

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  32. Re:Externally mounted cameras by radarskiy · · Score: 1

    In which case you are no worse off than without the VR system.

  33. Re:Tank Drone by Duhavid · · Score: 1

    Hey, look at all this radio traffic
    It's command/ control traffic from their tanks to where the operators are ....
    2 battles later
    Hey! My tank isn't obeying me!
    Neither is mine!
    My God, they are headed rigCARRIER LOST

    --
    emt 377 emt 4
  34. F-35 Helmets by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    If I remember right, like the F-22 helmet it's actually radar stealthed as well. A 'big' dome is a good target for radar and the canopy is at least somewhat transparent to radar.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  35. Who would want to be a tank soldier? by MildlyTangy · · Score: 1

    In this day and age, who on earth would want to be a soldier in a tank?

    The number of weapons available that can kill you in a very nasty manner with almost no chance of survival is so high that you would have to be suicidal to volunteer for tank duties.

    Tanks are vulnerable.

  36. Civilians by phorm · · Score: 1

    "you are a pretty bright light for HARM missiles or other radar-seeking technology"

    Well, it's a good thing that no bad people deliberately set themselves up amongst civilian infrastructure or on hospitals, etc...

  37. Coo, but not really gamification by mcvos · · Score: 1

    It's not gamification until the tank crew scores points by doing their job.

  38. I wouldn't want it by TwoBit · · Score: 1

    Unless you've tried it, how can you judge it?