RightsCorp To Bring Its Controversial Copyright Protection Tactics To Europe

judgecorp (778838) writes "RightsCorp, the controversial copyright enforcer, is planning to begin operations in Europe. In the U.S., the company scans torrents for IP addresses on behalf of media companies, shares them with ISPs, forcing them to send lawyers' letters (using the DMCA) demanding money from the supposed copyright infringers. RightsCorp says Europe needs its help in fighting piracy." They recently expanded operations into Canada as well.

Comments

RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

More like YuoHaveNoRightsCorp!!

Thank you, i'll be here all week.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. Because you should have the right to break the law and go unpunished? Although I may not agree with the way we got to this point, I don't have a problem with what they are doing per se. We need to change the rules.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't we had multiple court cases and appeals end in the decision that "IP address != real person"?

I guess the people being sent the letters just don't want to deal with the legal hassle. There's a business model for you... "paying us money is cheaper than legally proving you don't owe us money". You'd think that'd be classified as extortion.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the laws were suppose to be what the majority wanted, you know "democratically".

Most didn't want infinitely extended copywrite laws and zero chance of the content ever going to the public domain.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this is incorrect. If it were, the minimum wage would be at $10.10 right now (an overwhelmingly popular proposition). We live in a representative republic, where a small group of elected officials make the laws that the entire country must follow. The small group has been purchased by moneyed interests and big corporations. Throw in some vocal radical minorities and voter apathy, and that is how stuff like this happens.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Democracy does not work.

Even Winston Churchill said this...

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I happen to live in Canada and these guys are having some real problems pulling off their "jane and john doe" lawsuits here (and rightflully so).
The position many have taken is these lawsuits are a form of "Speculative invoicing" and the Canadian courts don't allow this (it is considered "fraud on the courts").

They have also attempted to "bundle" the lawsuits to keep their court costs low, and again this is being questioned.

You can read more here: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6805/125/

I guess given enough pressure from the US canada will take a similar view and start all the lawsuit stuff where single moms are forced into bankruptcy when they would face no such charge had they actually just stolen the CD.

Re:RightsCorp

[morgauxo]

Welcome to the party! Where ya been?

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Not when the laws are written by lawyers and ex-lawyers. Then it's just called job security.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't we had multiple court cases and appeals end in the decision that "IP address != real person"?

In the U.S., yes.

But what about all the other countries? We can start over!

Re:RightsCorp

[StripedCow]

Haven't we had multiple court cases and appeals end in the decision that "IP address != real person"?

Oh, but don't worry. They are already lobbying for "IP address == real person".
The "internet passport" is coming sooner than you might think.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Also, the minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage.

And why is that? Someone working full-time should be able to at least support themselves. Or is that too much to ask? Actually, it feeds right into the oligarchs' plans. Keep the great unwashed too poor and busy working two or three jobs to get involved and make a positive difference for themselves and their fellow citizens.

It's disgusting. Even $10.10/hour is only $21,008/year, assuming a 40 hour work week and no time off at all. That breaks down to gross pay of $1751/month. That's net pay (assuming 15% withholding for federal taxes and 6.25% SS/Medicare withholding) of $1378.65/month (note, this does not include state or local taxes, so it's less in places where those taxes apply). Yes, I know that folks making that wage will likely get most of that back as a tax refund, but that doesn't help them on a day to day basis.

So. A single person making ~$1400/month. Please tell me how many of you could live on that. Just you, not your kids or your spouse. And if you have a couple of young kids and need day care, clothes, car, food, electricity (should that be optional?), etc., etc., etc?

But the minimum wage isn't $10.10/hour. It's $7.25/hour. After taxes, that works out to be $989.63/month. Try living on that. Sigh.

I just did some simple calculations. Apparently, that's too difficult for some people. Or they're selfish, mean-spirited jerks who have no empathy. What do we call those with no empathy? Sociopaths.

In the richest country that *ever* existed, in an era of post-scarcity (at least here in the US) with productivity through the roof and increasing rapidly, how can we allow this? It just makes me want to hurl.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

The US is not a democracy so it would be tough to say it doesn't work if that is your point of reference
"
America is no longer a democracy — never mind the democratic republic envisioned by Founding Fathers.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/#ixzz312UtFVAK
"

That is the point i made on my first post here. If the laws were democratic people might not have such an issue with them. Suing people to bankruptcy over a single song? Not sure how much of the population would agree with such a law, yet it is "on the books".

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Good. Then we only have to show that RightsCorp's IP accessed child porn to put their CEO in jail.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Chili's pays £2/hour. The staff are paid with your tips.

Re:RightsCorp

[MightyMartian]

And how do you propose going about changing the rules when an incredibly well-funded lobby essentially has the bulk of Congress in its back pocket, and no way to ever dislodge them?

Re:RightsCorp

[frog_strat]

Posting to undo accidental moderation. (Is there another way to undo ?)

Re:RightsCorp

[zitsky]

Are you willing to pay higher taxes, and higher prices on things you buy? Because that's what has to happen. If businesses pay higher wages, they will pass the cost on to you. I agree that people should be paid a living wage, but that money has to come from somewhere.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Chili's pays £2/hour. The staff are paid with your tips.

Not with my tips. I don't eat at Chili's, nor do I live in the UK. But yes, restaurant wait staff often don't even get the minimum wage. Disgusting, isn't it?

Re:RightsCorp

[tranquilidad]

It's impossible for me to understand your logic.

I've certainly lived off a lot less than that (either of your numbers), quite comfortably. I once worked three jobs to be able to afford 1/2 a bedroom in a two bedroom apartment with three other guys. It created an incentive for me to find a more efficient way to earn what I needed in order to live in the style I wanted to live.

At what point did it become necessary that the government mandate a wage level so that people can live the way they want without incentive to live better?

Really, you think I'm a mean-spirited jerk with no empathy because I want people to have an incentive to get a better life and improve their skills?

What is your hierarchy of needs list that makes it so difficult to "live on" $1,000/month? Do we need to mandate a wage so that people can live alone in their own apartment or house? How large? Should they be able to have cell phone service, internet service? How about a computer? What kind?

Get a roommate or two and pool your resources.

In the richest country that *ever* existed, in an era of post-scarcity (at least here in the US) with productivity through the roof and increasing rapidly, how can we allow the removal of incentives for people to work hard and get ahead and make something of themselves.

Just because some fail doesn't mean we should dumb down the entire system so you don't hurt. Fear of failure is a great incentive.

I'd prefer to keep telling people that with hard work they can become something. It might not be easy but they will be all the more satisfied when they succeed.

Your argument strikes me as wanting to tell people the "man" is keeping you down and you'll never succeed so don't work hard and we'll make sure you can live a life of relative luxury.

Forget all that and explain the economics that would allow raising everyone's pay to live the standard you've set without causing a rise in the cost of living at that level.

Re:RightsCorp

[CaptainNerdCave]

Please, get off your soap-box.

monthly expense
500 apartment
300 groceries
300 transportation expense
100 utilities
total necessary expenses = 1200

Granted, I live in a smaller city, but Minneapolis is about the same cost, unless you need to go a great distance for work. Just outside of DC is also about the same. A nicer home, car, and children are not necessities. As an adult, I spent 10 years working for less than $10\hr. A large number of people I know make less than $10\hr. In fact, I made less than $8\hr until I was 26, and I was still able to live rather comfortably because I didn't waste money on things that I didn't need.

Does this mean that I think things are fine? No, I agree that income disparity is a horrible problem in a country where the "average" income is $75k\year, but very few of us know anyone who makes that much money.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Are you willing to pay higher taxes, and higher prices on things you buy? Because that's what has to happen. If businesses pay higher wages, they will pass the cost on to you. I agree that people should be paid a living wage, but that money has to come from somewhere.

Yes. And the tax code should be modified to incentivize reinvestment so that the 100,000 or so folks those who control 40% of the wealth in this country will put it into circulation, perhaps then 30% of our children won't have to live in poverty. Oh? Your kids don't have that problem, so fuck everyone else? I pity you.

Re:RightsCorp

[Microlith]

I once worked three jobs to be able to afford 1/2 a bedroom in a two bedroom apartment with three other guys.

What is this supposed to be, a badge of honor? Or is this stockholm syndrome? "Well I subjected myself to systemic abuse and overwork to just barely keep myself from becoming homless! There's nothing wrong with that!"

At what point did it become necessary that the government mandate a wage level so that people can live the way they want without incentive to live better?

At the moment it was obvious that corporations were more powerful than most people, and would would abuse them to the extent they could get away with.

you think I'm a mean-spirited jerk with no empathy because I want people to have an incentive to get a better life and improve their skills?

You're a mean spirited jerk because you assume that people who live in poverty have the time and resources to improve their skills.

Get a roommate or two and pool your resources.

Which works well for a small subset of people.

In the richest country that *ever* existed, in an era of post-scarcity (at least here in the US) with productivity through the roof and increasing rapidly, how can we allow the removal of incentives for people to work hard and get ahead and make something of themselves.

Indeed, in the richest country that ever existed why are people paid such poor wages and so often do without basic necessities (that they can't afford due to said same low wages)? Don't worry, the corporations you exalt are doing a great job at removing incentives for people to work hard by ensuring that hard work doesn't necessarily pay off.

Your argument strikes me as wanting to tell people the "man" is keeping you down and you'll never succeed so don't work hard and we'll make sure you can live a life of relative luxury.

No, it's about pointing out how the system is rigged and they are being taken advantage of for the sake of quarterly profits.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

It's impossible for me to understand your logic.

I've certainly lived off a lot less than that (either of your numbers), quite comfortably. I once worked three jobs to be able to afford 1/2 a bedroom in a two bedroom apartment with three other guys. It created an incentive for me to find a more efficient way to earn what I needed in order to live in the style I wanted to live.

At what point did it become necessary that the government mandate a wage level so that people can live the way they want without incentive to live better?

Really, you think I'm a mean-spirited jerk with no empathy because I want people to have an incentive to get a better life and improve their skills?

What is your hierarchy of needs list that makes it so difficult to "live on" $1,000/month? Do we need to mandate a wage so that people can live alone in their own apartment or house? How large? Should they be able to have cell phone service, internet service? How about a computer? What kind?

Get a roommate or two and pool your resources.

In the richest country that *ever* existed, in an era of post-scarcity (at least here in the US) with productivity through the roof and increasing rapidly, how can we allow the removal of incentives for people to work hard and get ahead and make something of themselves.

Just because some fail doesn't mean we should dumb down the entire system so you don't hurt. Fear of failure is a great incentive.

I'd prefer to keep telling people that with hard work they can become something. It might not be easy but they will be all the more satisfied when they succeed.

Your argument strikes me as wanting to tell people the "man" is keeping you down and you'll never succeed so don't work hard and we'll make sure you can live a life of relative luxury.

Forget all that and explain the economics that would allow raising everyone's pay to live the standard you've set without causing a rise in the cost of living at that level.

Just to make sure I understand what you're saying. You believe that there is equal opportunity for all in this country? You should get out more, friend. I'm not going to try to disabuse you of your illusions. I just feel sorry for you.

Yes. Because that works so well for us. With 30% of the children in this country living in poverty? That we incentivize greed and graft? That it takes the *average* (not the lowest paid) worker in a large corporation more than a week to earn what the CEO earns in an hour? You can't tell me that the CEO works hundreds of times harder, can you?

In the incredibly rich society that we live in, we should be able to provide equal opportunity for all and create an environment where social mobility is increasing, not decreasing. Which it has been for the last 30 years or so.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

500 apartment

Just outside of DC is also about the same.

Uh, what? People in the DC/MD/VA area rent out their basement broom closet for 900 a month.

Re:RightsCorp

[fustakrakich]

I thought the laws were suppose to be what the majority wanted, you know "democratically".

They are what the majority wants, the majority of dollars, one dollar one vote. What could be more "democratic"?

Re:RightsCorp

[tommeke100]

The article says that RightsCorp sends settlements for 20$ a title.
So, it's not like they will sue you for thousands if you happen to download the latest GoT episode.
Although I don't concur with their process (sneak their way into getting personal info by avoiding courts), at least they are asking for a 'reasonable settlement'.

Re:RightsCorp

[fustakrakich]

Oh, I don't know. I suppose people could tune out the big money campaigns and vote for somebody different, but they don't want to take any unnecessary risks. I don't blame money for love of the same.

Re:RightsCorp

[Lumpy]

When did you live off of that? because even just 5 years ago it was a lot cheaper for the poor.

Right now in a fricking trailer park Lot rent is on average $450 a month. and that is of you OWN the trailer, if you are renting the trailer that is another $400-$600 on top of the lot rent. Plus Heat, electric, and water are bills on top of those, God help you if you are in a 1970's shithold trailer that will cost $450 a month to heat in the winter.

So JUST for a place to legally live. $450+$400 for the trailer you are renting, $225 for heat in the winter means $100 on average for heating, $50 for electricity a month, and $15 a month for water, you dont need to bathe more than 1X a week.
$1015 ALONE for a legal place to live and sleep. so you have a whopping $395 a month for food and expenses to get to and from work. So let''s take the bus, because nobody can legally afford a car on those wages. $120 a month for bus fare, You have a Massive $275 a month for food, clothing, and work expenses. Hope you dont get sick because you cant afford the romneycare that the country was forced to have. Even with the subsidies for being poor making only $10 an hour you have to pay $200 a month, that is not in your budget.

So lets look at real clothing costs. Shopping goodwill or second hand stores, You can afford a $10.00 used pair of pants and a $10.00 used shirt each month to replace those that wear out, Oh we have to do laundry! $15 a week at the laundrymat for a single load of laundry, plus $4.00 to get there and back. so we now have $236 and we still have not bought any food. Granted scumbag rich people will say "just eat ramen" yeah if you want to die, Through the roof sodium and nutritionally empty ramen is a good replacement for a single meal daily, but you need protein and other things. Realistically a good CHEAP eating properly is about $8.00 a day. IF you are ok with letting your health slide, you can do it for $6.00 a day. so let's go there. $6.00 a day for 30 days (yes you have to eat on weekends) $180 for food so we are down to $56.00 for the month for extravagant luxury items like razor blades to shave, soap, shampoo, deodorant, Oh hope you don't have a cold or the flu because you work minimum wage so the owner will fire your ass if you call in sick, so you need over the counter meds So there is $30 for that month, you could save money by searching your neighbors trash for used razer blades.

So what do I have left over $26.00 a month for go insane with! where as reality is that $26 is consumed by fees for cashing my paycheck at a check cashing place or worse the debit card scam that the employer forced the worker into. Those things take fees for every single transaction, so that $26 is gone at the end of the month.

Looking at what I calculated from what I see is costs today..... Damn why dont more people live high on the hog like that? And If I'm lucky I can get a room mate that will steal food from me or might pay the rent on time... Then I'm really high on the hog living the luxury lifestyle!

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

You're already paying that extra money, it just disappears into your taxes and gets multiplied by the legion of bureaucrats who administer the steaming pile known collectively as the tax and welfare systems.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Please, get off your soap-box.

monthly expense 500 apartment 300 groceries 300 transportation expense 100 utilities total necessary expenses = 1200

Granted, I live in a smaller city, but Minneapolis is about the same cost, unless you need to go a great distance for work. Just outside of DC is also about the same. A nicer home, car, and children are not necessities. As an adult, I spent 10 years working for less than $10\hr. A large number of people I know make less than $10\hr. In fact, I made less than $8\hr until I was 26, and I was still able to live rather comfortably because I didn't waste money on things that I didn't need.

Does this mean that I think things are fine? No, I agree that income disparity is a horrible problem in a country where the "average" income is $75k\year, but very few of us know anyone who makes that much money.

No. I won't "get off my soapbox." Don't want to listen to me? Fine. But I suggest you educate yourself as to the facts. You're thinking, "well, I did it so everyone else's circumstances must be the same. If they can't hack it, they must be stupid or lazy." Think about what you're saying.

So I guess you never had to go to the doctor or dentist? Buy clothes, linens or towels? Replace furniture or appliances? Save a little money for retirement? Pay off your six figure student loans?

Lucky you never got hit by a car or had all your possessions stolen or a hurricane, flood or tornado destroy your home.

BTW, According to the US Census Bureau, The 2011 Median Income of US households was $50,054 per annum. That's for a household with ~2.5. That breaks down to a bout $20,000 per person. Something like 30% of children in this country live in a household that has income below the official povery line.

Things are much worse than you think. Oh, and you're right, having children isn't a necessity. We don't need to propagate the species, do we?

Re:RightsCorp

[ArcadeMan]

If they are only asking for 20$ per "pirated" CD, then it makes the Samsung tactic* viable.

* steal all you can until you get caught, the fines will never be as high as the value of what you've stolen.

Not to mention that in Canada, we're supposed to have the right to copy for individual use. That includes downloads. Just set your upload speed to zero, become a P2P leech and you're legal.

Re:RightsCorp

[tepples]

Democratic means votes are proportional to people; demos means people. What you're looking for is plutocratic.

Re:RightsCorp

[coastwalker]

Hey, if your lifestyle is only achievable if society uses slave labor then maybe you don't earn enough money yourself.

There is enough wealth around to pay a minimum wage and yes it does come from somewhere, its achieved by wealth re-distribution and works in most civilized countries, including the USA. But we could improve the minimum wage into a living wage without our economy crashing. After all the profits that would probably pay the living wage now just go towards the one percents increasing raft of wealth instead of being spent in the economy.

There are only two constants in life, death and taxation. Ask any civilization whether it be run by pirates, kings, governments or snow white and the Severn dwarfs.

Re:RightsCorp

[coastwalker]

From your super articulate post I am sure you don't have any trouble making your way in life. Have you ever considered what happens to people who are not as smart as you? (And why we spend a fortune to keep them in prison?)

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Many people in higher income brackets, i.e. most everyone on slashdot, believe that their experience is normal. They believe that having children is a privilege that 'lower classes' should not have. I suspect it is ignorance on the part of older posters that got into the industry when a well rounded education was not required and before wages started stagnating while everything else doubled in price.

Don't be too worried over people here. They are far out of touch, as you know, and lack an education to understand things like humanity, diversity, ethics, economics, and politics. You know, the things that are argued about endlessly here while degree programs that cover how to analyze those subjects are laughed at.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're advocating letting people die from poverty because you don't "feel" that it is the right thing to help them, then...fuck you. You and people like you are the problem. Everybody needs a hand sometime in their lives. Good for you if you haven't yet needed help - your life truly has been blessed. We'll see how you feel about helping your fellow man when you're unable to fend for yourself. Everybody gets old and tired - your time will come.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

This is such a lame excuse. Companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses alone.

Being a CEO is not easy for sure. There are many perks to the job but there is much stress and hassle. Still, what exactly does a CEO do to earn millions in bonuses while the people who actually make the products get wage increases below inflation or worse?

Capitalism is supposed to be a consumer driven economy and yet these days it seems everything is being done to lessen the amount the majority of people can consume. It doesn't seem to make any sense.

Re:RightsCorp

[CaptainNerdCave]

I don't have the statistics handy, but last year I crunched some numbers to figure out estimates of the total working population. If the average income per person in 2012 was just shy of $43k (http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm), that's about $13.4 trillion (using the population numbers from http://quickfacts.census.gov/q...). Assuming everyone who works is working full-time or better (60% of the population? That's about 188.3 million people), we have an average income of $71155 per person. Of course, these are fuzzy numbers that I put together in just a couple minutes.

Re:RightsCorp

[rogoshen1]

don't forget the self medication with alcohol. :( that gets expensive after a while.

what's always awesome and fun about these conversations is that people (typically right leaning types) hyper-focus on the entitlements that go towards individuals, while *completely* ignoring the corporate welfare that is our DOD and government procurement system in general, and is at least an order of magnitude greater in terms of cost. (not to mention entitlement programs for individuals put money directly back into the economy via consumer spending, as compared to a Raytheon or Boeing.)

Re:RightsCorp

[CaptainNerdCave]

Sorry, I forgot to respond to the other things.

I take care of myself by eating reasonably well, exercising, and visited the dental wing of a local college when I needed work. I was in a car accident when I was 20. My car insurance payed for the hospital expenses and work I missed. Clothes, housewares, appliances? Thrift stores and rummage sales. By the time I was 28, I had over $20k in savings. I guess I'm fortunate with regard to my student loans. My first degree was an AAS from a state school that I paid for as I attended, and my BA was at a private college (I know now, THAT was stupid), but I graduated with only about $55k in loans.

For about the last year, I've been making around $20\hr, and I still shop at thrift stores for almost all of my goods.

I'm not insisting that everyone can live like I do, but I'm telling you it's possible.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you should have the right to break the law and go unpunished?

No, people should not.

I don't have a problem with what they are doing per se.

So people should not have the right to break the law and go unpunished, but you also do not have a problem when it does happen. Seems kind of inconsistent, but whatever.

Re:RightsCorp

[CaptainNerdCave]

Craigslist? Classifieds? An apartment fit for a single person can be found for $400-600.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

I don't have the statistics handy, but last year I crunched some numbers to figure out estimates of the total working population. If the average income per person in 2012 was just shy of $43k (http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm), that's about $13.4 trillion (using the population numbers from http://quickfacts.census.gov/q...). Assuming everyone who works is working full-time or better (60% of the population? That's about 188.3 million people), we have an average income of $71155 per person. Of course, these are fuzzy numbers that I put together in just a couple minutes.

I included a link to the data in my post. No "back of the napkin" calculations necessary. Here's the link again.

Re:RightsCorp

[CaptainNerdCave]

Yes, I saw that link, but I was trying to illustrate the average income and how it isn't representative of the average person. I know plenty of married households where husband and wife (combined) earn less than $40k\year. When I worked as a software tester at Deere, about half of the engineers I knew didn't even make $70k.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone working full-time should be able to at least support themselves.

Sez who?

I mean, it'd be nice if that were true. Heck, it's be nicer if I could work for only 1 hour a week and support myself.

But there's no guarantee of any of that.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Sorry, I forgot to respond to the other things.

I take care of myself by eating reasonably well, exercising, and visited the dental wing of a local college when I needed work. I was in a car accident when I was 20. My car insurance payed for the hospital expenses and work I missed. Clothes, housewares, appliances? Thrift stores and rummage sales. By the time I was 28, I had over $20k in savings. I guess I'm fortunate with regard to my student loans. My first degree was an AAS from a state school that I paid for as I attended, and my BA was at a private college (I know now, THAT was stupid), but I graduated with only about $55k in loans.

For about the last year, I've been making around $20\hr, and I still shop at thrift stores for almost all of my goods.

I'm not insisting that everyone can live like I do, but I'm telling you it's possible.

Good for you. I guess it's a good thing you never had anything catastrophic happen to you. I know what's possible. I've done very well for myself too, by working hard and trying not to be wasteful of resources.

I'm not pointing a finger at you. I'm pointing out that things are getting worse. Certainly, times have changed, but we used to encourage (through economic policy) a less stratified society with more social mobility. As the oligarchs have gained power, our society is becoming less free, less tolerant and opportunity is becoming more and more restricted.

I'm not advocating a "Harrison Bergeron" style society, but I am outraged and sickened by the efforts of the wealthiest and most powerful among us to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.

We should try to make our society better in terms of opportunity and quality of life for all of us. That's my point.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Yes, I saw that link, but I was trying to illustrate the average income and how it isn't representative of the average person. I know plenty of married households where husband and wife (combined) earn less than $40k\year. When I worked as a software tester at Deere, about half of the engineers I knew didn't even make $70k.

I'm sorry. I'm confused. The term "average" can mean any of three different "measures of central tendency." The mean (add up all the data points and divide by the number of points), the mode (the data point occurring most frequently) and the median (a number where half of the data points lie above and half the data points lie below it).

The "average" person? When you say "average," which "measure of central tendency" are you referring to?

I'm glad you have a diverse circle, but the people you know don't represent the at-large population. Please explain what that has to do with anything other than your anecdotal experience.

*Median* income (which is almost always the measure used in economic analysis) is the income (based on gathered data and analysis) at which half the population falls below and half the population falls above.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Someone working full-time should be able to at least support themselves.

Sez who?

I mean, it'd be nice if that were true. Heck, it's be nicer if I could work for only 1 hour a week and support myself.

But there's no guarantee of any of that.

Says me. And, IMHO, anyone who wants a society that is prosperous, functional and provides equal *opportunity* for it's citizens. Just throwing up your hands and saying "oh well, things don't work like that. I guess it sucks to be you." is intellectually lazy and smacks of narcissism.

Re:RightsCorp

[khellendros1984]

In the U.S., that isn't strictly true (although it's often the case). By the Fair Labor Standards Act, if an employee doesn't make the federal minimum wage by a combination of the $2.13/hour direct wage and their tips, the employer is required to make up the difference.

Re:RightsCorp

[ProfBooty]

There are plenty of places in PG, Fairfax, Montgomery, and Arlington for under 500 a month. My wife was making 19k a year as a UMD grad student just a few years ago and was renting rooms in Silver Spring and Gaithersburg for $300 a month. Somehow she saved 10k a year. After she got a real job, she paid about the same for a room in Philly near the italian market.

You can get signifigant savings if you are frugal and put the effort into it. Most people don't put the effort or feel entitled. They then go into debt or buy stuff they don't need which makes investors wealthy.

Re:RightsCorp

[Jane Q. Public]

You'd think that'd be classified as extortion.

YES. There have been some RICO lawsuits started. I don't think they've been decided (or even heard) yet.

Not only is this pretty blatantly "racketeering", but when other companies tried to do this before, courts found that in order to tell who was infringing copyrights, the "detection" company had to be breaking the same laws as the people they were trying to out.

It is not permissible to break the law in order to enforce the law.

And yes, the basic business model is extortion. Every case I have read about lately having to do with this has run into courts that acknowledged that the methods being used were fundamentally extortionate. EFF has been winning left and right, as well. Where they haven't been directly involved in defense they have often provided amicus briefs to the court in the cases, and in a very high proportion of those cases, the courts have ruled just as EFF suggested was legally proper.

Re:RightsCorp

[Jane Q. Public]

I almost forgot to add:

In the recent copyright troll lawsuits involving the group calling itself Prenda Law, if I am not mistaken the court found that the company claiming to have "detected" copyright infringement had uploaded the file(s) themselves in the first place.

That's not exactly what I meant in the comment above, but it's good evidence that trolls aren't out to enforce the law, or protect anybody's rights, but rather just to extort money out of people.

Re:RightsCorp

[sjames]

The minimum wage most certainly is supposed to be a living wage. It was implemented as part of the war on poverty (which, due to a horrible tyupo, the Tea Party now wages as the war on the poor).

Re:RightsCorp

[Jane Q. Public]

Oh, but don't worry. They are already lobbying for "IP address == real person". The "internet passport" is coming sooner than you might think.

Nonsense.

They've tried to pull the "ip address = person" BS for years. And they've been losing, right and left.

Not just frequency but increasingly courts are recognizing that not only does IP address not equal a person, but that it's not even CLOSE.

Take my case, for instance. I run an open guest internet account as a public service. Not just somebody next door but anybody in my neighborhood can connect to the internet from my router, and often do. In fact, I just looked and I see that there are 3 people outside my household who have connected just in the last 24 hours.

Sometimes it's someone living nearby. Sometimes it's someone walking or driving by with their cellphone. It could be someone in a car with a laptop. I don't know and I don't care.

Re:RightsCorp

[sjames]

We pay higher taxes now because we end up supplementing the cheap bastard employer's payroll. At least if the employer is forced to pay the whole load themselves, it will be possible to choose which business you support with your money.

Implement minimum wage and we can pay lower taxes and make our own decisions on what company to support.

Do you LIKE it when McDonalds picks your pocket every payday? What if you prefer Wendy's or just don't like fast food at all?

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they cut prices on the things we buy when they make record profits? They will raise prices to what the market will bear regardless of minimum wage. Everyone always says we'll have to pay so much extra for things because of the wages these corporations pay their employees. Do you think if they successfully lobbied to lower the minimum wage to $1, prices on anything would drop? Of course not. They'd just announce record profits to their shareholders and look for more ways to gouge for more loot.

Re:RightsCorp

[sjames]

Let's say we all collectively decide we no longer care to subsidize crappy pay. No more safety net at all.

The minimum wage workers will start smelling and looking like homeless people (because they are homeless), or they will die from malnutrition. At that point, the cheapskate employers will have to either pay more or shut down.

Minimum wage is our way of having that same outcome with less corpses in the gutters.

Re:RightsCorp

[LifesABeach]

RightsCorp says Europe needs its help in fighting piracy."

Sounds to me like RightsCorp is looking into Franchising their busiess model.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

So how did all those "root kit" lawsuits go, was the punishment relative to the crime?

How about when the recording studios were found guilty of copyright infringement, did they get the $20k / per song fine?

How about when they were found guilty of price fixing, anyone in jail?

Re:RightsCorp

[Maritz]

Chili's pays £2/hour. The staff are paid with your tips.

Not with my tips. I don't eat at Chili's, nor do I live in the UK. But yes, restaurant wait staff often don't even get the minimum wage. Disgusting, isn't it?

I dunno why he put a £ sign there but I don't think anyone gets paid £2 an hour legally in the UK, nor is Chili's around. There was one in Canary Wharf I think but it closed.

Re:RightsCorp

[Dahan]

But yes, restaurant wait staff often don't even get the minimum wage. Disgusting, isn't it?

They do in the US. If their wages plus tips ends up being less than the minimum wage, federal law requires that their employer pay the difference, so that they end up getting the minimum wage.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

But yes, restaurant wait staff often don't even get the minimum wage. Disgusting, isn't it?

They do in the US. If their wages plus tips ends up being less than the minimum wage, federal law requires that their employer pay the difference, so that they end up getting the minimum wage.

I was unaware that was required. Thanks! However, $7.25/hour is still not a living wage.

Re:RightsCorp

[david_thornley]

A business can't just increase its prices to get more money; after all, if it could, it would have earlier. Businesses typically try to make all the money they can. Some businesses would have to cope with lower profits, some would find a higher price equilibrium, it's complicated.

Also, if somebody doesn't need food stamps because they now make enough money to not officially need them, isn't that likely to lower my taxes?

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand how you guys think you can get away with this. The law doesn't like losing, so it is phrased for the win. The account holder paying the bill is responsible for the usage so if you let other people use your connection you are responsible for what they do with it, especially even more so since you purposely failed to secure your connection by providing this "public service" you are even more on the hook for it. You can't claim ignorance, or claim you were hacked and the onus is still on you to prove that "someone else did it" when you are served with a disconnection notice or fine.

Re:RightsCorp

[Jane Q. Public]

I don't understand how you guys think you can get away with this.

How "us guys think we can get away" with WHAT? What is it you think I am doing wrong? Please be specific.

The law doesn't like losing, so it is phrased for the win.

"The law" isn't losing, it's winning. THE LAW says an IP address is not probable cause. Many courts, including Federal courts, have clearly said so. One court ruled not long ago that not only does an IP address not equal a person, often it doesn't even equal a house. As I illustrated in my example.

The people who are losing are those who are trying to extort money from others who are "innocent"... or at least who have not committed any crimes. That's a victory for THE LAW, not a loss. The law does not like extortion and intimidation of common citizens.

The account holder paying the bill is responsible for the usage so if you let other people use your connection you are responsible for what they do with it, especially even more so since you purposely failed to secure your connection by providing this "public service" you are even more on the hook for it

Is this what you think I have been doing wrong? I think you misunderstand. *I* am the account holder, and I pay for a premium account. *I* am letting my neighbors use my internet, which *I* pay too much to the cable company for.

But even if it was a misunderstanding of what you meant, you are still wrong. Legally, I am very much NOT responsible for what other people do with it.

If you loaned your rifle to a neighbor who was going hunting, and he killed somebody with it instead, does that mean you are guilty of murder? Of course not.

If somebody "borrowed" or stole the rake I left sitting in the front yard, and used it to kill somebody, would I be guilty of murder? Of course not.

THE LAW says that you are not responsible for what somebody else does with something of yours, unless you were complicit in the act. If you loaned your rifle to him SO THAT he could murder somebody, then yes you are a criminal. Otherwise, no.

In the same way: if somebody uses my internet to do something that isn't kosher, it's their problem, and it very definitely is NOT my problem, under the law. I am not required by law to police my neighbor. That is something that happens in police states.

Why should my home be any different from an "internet cafe"? If you went into one, and did something wrong with the internet, would they be responsible by law? Of course not. If they were, internet cafes would have ceased to exist.

(By the way: the courts have ruled that my home is NOT different from an internet cafe, in that respect.)

I pay very close attention to the law in this regard. I should also mention that (A) some major ISPs are now renting out equipment so their customers can set up the same kind of public networks, and (B) the EFF highly recommends it for everybody.

I understand if that offends your concept of how the law works, but that is the way the law does work, and also how it should work in a free country.

Re:RightsCorp

[StripedCow]

That's why the notion of "IP address" will change in the future. It will be redesigned by lawmakers (instead of engineers).

I foresee that logging in to the internet would require a special log-in passport that ties you to your internet packets.
If you let others use your account, well, then that's your problem (just like letting somebody else use your car is your problem, if they get a ticket).

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you're saying is that if I sign into McDonald's free WiFi to download child pornography, then the restaurant owner goes to jail? If an account holder is responsible for what a stranger does on his network, then the legislative body ought to be considered terrorists for threatening us with jail for being kind.

Re:RightsCorp

[jbo5112]

Minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage because there are supposed to be entry level jobs for people who are starting out, not living on their own. If someone is qualified to responsibly manage having their own apartment, etc., then they're quite overqualified to tear movie tickets.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Where'd you get 15% Federal income tax withholding on minimum wage? None of the income would hit the 15% bracket, and you can always adjust your withholdings so you're not forced into giving the government a free loan.

Anyway, $900 budget: (with roommates of course)
$350 rent
$150 food
$150 utilities
$65 smartphone
$35 clothes
$100 gasoline
$50 misc emergency expenses
$0 Obamacare Insurance

With my $900 target, I even get nearly $100 (or more, depending on taxes) for savings or investment every month, and could cut back in nearly every category if I had to. I could probably even bike ride to work most days, saving gas. If I wanted to get creative, I could live with my parents while working the 4 years that most spend at college, and save up for a down payment on a cheap house. With the house, I get 3 roommates who pay my mortgage, taxes and maintenance.

Re:RightsCorp

[aestrivex]

Legally true, but not necessarily widely followed.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

Trailer park living sounds expensive. I can find a number of apartments around here for $400-$450/month. If you can find a roommate, $700/month 2-bedroom apartments are more plentiful. If you can get the 20% down, there are decent houses in decent neighborhoods for $600/month for mortgage, tax and insurance.

Re:RightsCorp

[Anonymous Coward]

The local McDonald's had to pay workers more 10 years ago than today, now that they've raised the minimum wage a lot. A lot of teenagers gave up a lot of pay to avoid McD's, but now that labor is more expensive, fewer jobs are open and fewer have that option.

Re:RightsCorp

[sjames]

If the work is less valuable than the cost of the worker remaining alive, it shouldn't be done. That is basic economics.

Re:RightsCorp

[jbo5112]

I'm not sure where you get your information. The war on poverty was started in the 60's and the federal minimum wage was started in the 1930's. It was originally supposed to be a living wage, but it was only $4.19/hr in 2014 dollars. Apparently, living wage now includes a lot more amenities.

Re:RightsCorp

[sjames]

Part of it is that hard necessities have gone up more than other consumer goods, so in fact, it takes more inflation adjusted dollars to provide the basics now than it used to (odd but true). In addition, living in society today imposes more costs than it used to, due to everything from building codes and zoneing to child labor laws and compulsory education.

Re:RightsCorp

[NotSanguine]

Minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage because there are supposed to be entry level jobs for people who are starting out, not living on their own. If someone is qualified to responsibly manage having their own apartment, etc., then they're quite overqualified to tear movie tickets.

Actually, according to one of the sponsors (George Miller) of the 2007 minimum wage bill, that's not true. In fact, he said:

Congress has a moral duty to raise the minimum wage. Churches, synagogues, and other faith groups are calling on Congress to support the Fair Minimum Wage Act. In this country, an average CEO earns more before lunchtime in one day than a minimum wage worker earns all year. This is a moral outrage in the richest country on earth. With the costs of health insurance, gasoline, and college tuition increasing, it is important, now more than ever, that we raise the minimum wage so that these hard working Americans are able to meet basic human needs. Raising the minimum wage is not only the right thing to do, it is also economically prudent. Increasing the minimum wage will help boost the economy as a whole, putting more money into the hands of those people who need it and will spend it--indeed, spend it on basic necessities. Last year, some 665 economists, including several Nobel Laureates, signed a statement in support of raising the minimum wage. As they explained, the ``minimum wage helps to equalize the imbalance in bargaining power that low-wage workers face in the labor market. The minimum wage is also an important tool in fighting poverty.'' Raising the minimum wage is critical to fighting the middle class squeeze in this country. America's middle class is this country's economic backbone. It is what makes us strong. Yet the middle class is shrinking. Since 2001, the number of Americans living in poverty has increased by 5.4 million, to 37 million. More than one in six American children now lives in poverty. The Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007 is an important first step for this new Congress in its efforts to stand up for the middle class and to stem the squeeze.[Emphasis added]

Don't you just hate those pesky facts?

Re:RightsCorp

[stoatwblr]

CItation please.

If that's true and they really are in the UK then they've got a world of hurt in store, as that's completely and utterly illegal under UK law and the authorities WILL nail them to the wall plus go after the company princpals for back-pay.

Tips are EXTRA to minimum wage, not a top up to get to it. There's plenty of UK/EU case law on this subject and every single employer who's tried the american model of counting tips towards final pay has been handed their head on a plate.

Re:RightsCorp

[Optali]

Sorry:

Such things as IP addresses (here in the EU at least) fall under the privacy laws and such things as tracing these are considered CRIMINAL offences.

Downloading illegal material fall under civil law and are regarded as faults in the same way that parking on a forbidden zone is.

We have thus a private company _committing a crime_ in order to stop or catch people committing faults.

And if you think that nobody will pay attention to that I will kindly make you recall that we do have a Pirate Party with a good representation in both the national parliaments and the EU. And to make matters worse: there are even some ISP here supporting them (like our Dutch xs4all) and I seriously doubt that they would be quite happy with a bunch of hackers sniffing around in their customer's data.

 

Get out

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody wants you here.

Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Anonymous Coward]

And I shall sell you lists of IP addresses for $10 each.

They correspond to people torrenting files without the copyright owner's permission.

I swear.

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[andreas.hummelbrunne]

This... This is sadly pretty accurate :(

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[biodata]

Wait, so under DMCA anyone can extort $10 per IP address out of ISPs by claiming they are involved in piracy? Glad I live in Europe where this could never happen.

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Anonymous Coward]

This... This is sadly pretty accurate :(

Yes, and I can't wait until the day comes when they fuck with the wrong IP.

Billionaires use the internet too. WrongsCorp needs to be handed a legal battle they wish they would have never asked for with wrongful accusation in order for this shit to end.

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Bigbutt]

Did you RTFA? Apparently RightsCorp gives the ISP the list of IPs for free. They make their money off of the folks who do the downloading ("for $20 per track or movie we'll remove your name from this list we're sending to your ISP"). Anyone still on the list goes to the ISP who is legally required to send letters to the subscriber. This increases their chances of losing the customer. Without the list of IPs provided by RightsCorp, the ISP legally doesn't have to do anything.

So "I'll sell you this list of IP addresses for $10 each" would be met with "sorry, no idea who you are or what you're talking about, kthxby"

Sounds more like Blackmail.

[John]

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad I live in Europe where this could never happen.

In case you're not joking here...

You are aware that the DMCA is just the U.S. implementation of the WIPO Copyright Treaty, right? You know, the one that nearly every country in Europe also signed.

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Without the list of IPs provided by RightsCorp, the ISP legally doesn't have to do anything.

Even with said list, EU ISPs do not have to do anything, unless it's a EUCD notice (like DMCA but for EU) and even then, the EUCD notice would have to be accurate, because if RightsCorp doesn't own the intellectual property, again the ISPs can safely ignore it.

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Lumpy]

I'll give them a freebie.

Anyone that has the address 127.0.0.1 on their computer is a thief and you can bill them right now.

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[CheshireDragon]

mine is ::1

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Lumpy]

using ipV6 also protects you from NSA snooping as none of their software is capable of ipV6

Re:Hi, I'm a copyright enforcement company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Would would assume they would just silently remove their names from the files before it even made it before the courts?

How?

[JasterBobaMereel]

"... we are optimistic that there will be a way to do this in Europe"

We are optimistic that with the DCMA or Canadian equivalent this is not as simple as you think

Re:How?

[NotSanguine]

Well we start by you volunteering to pay first, then we begin deducting an additional 25% of your salary to donate to a family in need ,and lastly we start doing the same thing with others that willingly volunteer their earnings to help the needy. Thank you sir for your assistance in these difficult times.

Absolutely. In fact, the needy can have every penny of my salary over the past seven months. I assume you're next, eh?

Welcome

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think it's going to work on this side of the pond.

The link in the paragraph refers to the UK...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not even surprised.

Greed and the UK go hand in hand...

Re:The link in the paragraph refers to the UK...

[jabuzz]

Better still it has already been tried in the U.K. It failed spectacularly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

Porn

[clarkkent09]

I have a friend who makes great money in similar way but with porn. He searches file sharing sites on behalf of a bunch of porn producers and looks for their content and then tries to figure out who shared it (some sites sneakily attach the member id to each downloaded clip and there are other ways too). Then he has his lawyer send them a letter threatening a lawsuit but offering to settle for $500 or something. He makes sure that the letter contains in big bold font the clip title as well as a detailed description of the contents. Decent enough percentage of them just mail the check.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

So your friend is a blackmailer. The more you know ~~~*

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a smart one!

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

"Letter before action" may look like blackmail, but it's perfectly fine from a legal standpoint. Just don't threaten with bodily harm or property harm. Only threaten with the court. Then it's not blackmail.

"Give me all your money or I'll take you to court" isn't illegal.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Either you need a better class of friend or you're a douchebag.

Because your friend is a douchebag.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

so you hang out with lowlifes and call them 'friend' ? ? ?
that makes you a scumbag by association...
BTW, did you know these scumbags typically SEED THE FILES THEMSELVES to ensnare the unlucky/unaware...
they are parasitic scum...

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Take that advise with a grain of salt. It all depends where the guy you are extorting lives. In Sweden, extortion by threatening to file a police report or lawsuit is a felony, punishable with 2 years in prison.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

"Letter before action" may look like blackmail, but it's perfectly fine from a legal standpoint. Just don't threaten with bodily harm or property harm. Only threaten with the court. Then it's not blackmail.

"Give me all your money or I'll take you to court" isn't illegal.

Except the epic smackdown currently being experienced by Prenda Law across the United States for doing exactly that would seem to indicate otherwise.

Re:Porn

[mSparks43]

It's funny how Americans think the American law system applies to the rest of the world.

It's also not so much of an issue in the UK where it would go to small claims court which costs next to nothing to defend, and is comparably expensive to bring.

One piece of paper denying responsibility and citing lack of evidence (IP != responsibility) is enough to get it thrown out and they loose their filing fees.

afaik.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Only threaten with the court. Then it's not blackmail.

Yeah, that's called barratry.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an offer to settle out of court for the theft of intellectual property. That's not extortion.

Re:Porn

[Minwee]

Really? How long have John Steele and you been friends, anyway?

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

The person above you was offering advice for citizens of Sweden.

Not everyone lives in the United States, you know.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like this can be solved with reasonable, fair and just justice systems. Who'd thunk it?

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet his mother is a cunt too

Re:Porn

[Lehk228]

I don't speak Swedish and I am not interested in attempting to decipher another countries statutes, however I doubt that a bona-fide offer to settle a claim counts as extortion, if it did that would essentially paralyze their civil court system.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Most countries in the world do not believe in settlement because we don't want to lice in a litigation society like the usa.

Re:Porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Being an American that always pissed me off, just because of your American nationality means shit. They always scream 'I did nothing wrong', even when that country has the same laws as their own country, or 'quickly call the American Embassy'. America leading the way when it comes to making sure Americans get away with injustice.

And I won't get started on the American Government/Military that get away with crimes...

Indie

[pr0fessor]

My brother is in an indie band and they payed to go to a small but professional studio and record an EP. The content is all original and they have copyright but he saw a blog about indie bands publishing through tunecore on multiple services {iTunes, Google Play, Amazon, etc...} getting take down notices from companies claiming to represent the copyright holder.

He's a little freaked out because although they payed all that money for copyright and self publishing they really couldn't afford a lawyer if something like that happened to the band.

Re:Indie

[Threni]

He doesn't need a lawyer; just tell Google "that's BS - it's my copyright" and they'll put the content back up again.

Re:Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

Well then tell him it's time to get a cubicle job like the rest of us.

Re: Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

i get those infringement notices by youtube all the time - except that i have all the right to use the material in question (i make music videos) - it's a hassle, that's usually sorted out by an e-mail - still, it's fucking annoying to constantly "clear" the rights of material, you already have the rights to - often multiple times - because some stupid program identifies the material as belonging to someone you've licensed it to.

it also cost's money (time).
i think, copyright holders should pay a small fine for every wrong infingement notice that could have been avoided.

Re:Indie

[Sockatume]

...unless the spurious claimant continues to assert that it's the real owner, in which case Google washes its hands and says you've got to find a lawyer, take them to court, and prove that your own work actually does belong to you.

Re:Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

what fantasy world do you live in?

Re: Indie

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

i think, copyright holders should pay a small fine for every wrong infingement notice that could have been avoided.

Why small? May be it should start small and escalate based on each false claim they have filed, may be exponentially. Also small should be in relation to the size and strength of the spurious claimer. What is small for RIAA is not huge for the lone indie trying to get his/her work back from the false claimers.

Re: Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

i think, copyright holders should pay a small fine for every wrong infingement notice that could have been avoided.

You mean, copyright pretenders. I disagree. They should pay a large fine. We are talking about tortious business interference here.

And preferably with a three-strikes scheme. Three wrongful accusations, and you get put on a national copyright offender registry and are barred from making DMCA claims. Instead you have to go to court, and when you don't prevail, pay the court fees of the defendant as a rule.

The cost of handing those industries a free pass for abuse is just too high and interferes with civic life. Some misdemeanors are not worth the cost of pursuing to society.

Re:Indie

[Threni]

No, Google puts it back up and it's for the company to then sue you/Google.

Re:Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be better to produce an album and be paid for the rest of your life, and your kids lives as well for it?

Re: Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

Why small? May be it should start small and escalate based on each false claim they have filed, may be exponentially.

Lets take a hint from an old math class.

The fine for a false DMCA claim is to begin at one tenth of a cent, doubling each additional infraction. The count will be reset after 2 years of no false DMCA claims.
It's small enough that individual content authors can safely have a few bad arguments, but it grows at a nice clip so the DMCA trolls will have to slow down and/or start wasting some cash on new LLCs every couple months.

Re: Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

How about revenge?

The person/corp issuing takedown notices to you, have their own content somewhere. (Or they wouldn't have anything to protect) Surely they have something online, like advertising, short clips, trailers or whatever. So issue equally bogus takedown notices against them!

I have the impression that it is mostly big players that issue these takedowns - if lots of people retaliate occationally, then they will feel the resistance.

Or consider a class-action lawsuit against them. Handling a bogus takedown cost you time, which is money. As well as the indirect cost of the downtime. It might not amount to much in each single case, but if every bogus takedown is punished with some money . . .

Re: Indie

[Anonymous Coward]

The labels/publishers/bands really license the sync rights to you as the video producer? That is a very unusual arrangement.

Re:Indie

[AmiMoJo]

Isn't the onus on the party asking for the take-down? When I countered a DMCA request the response from Google was that the content would remain up unless the other party got a court order.

Since then I moved my data out of the US anyway, so am immune to DMCA notices. When I get them I usually pretend to be clueless just to string them along a bit, and waste some expensive lawyer time.

Re:Indie

[pr0fessor]

Well that's just silly... How do you think indie bands pay for studio time, publication, advertising, and merchandise for that first album... it's not from a label.

They do have a sponsor so they get merchandise and radio advertising at a cut rate or sometime free advertising but it's not like being signed.

Re: Indie

[Reziac]

If it were hard goods or a bad check, the penalty would typically be three times the value of the goods or check, plus court costs. This seems reasonable to me. But in light of the insane "statutory damages" for 'intellectual property', I suggest that the same scale of damages be applied in the case of a false accusation. ;)

Please do this in Italy

[spiritplumber]

send a letter like that to the wrong person, you will see exactly what happens if you set up a protection racket where the marketplace is already full.

criminal scumbags

[Anonymous Coward]

so, where exactly is the difference between these honorable businessmen and other "honorable businessmen"?

Re:criminal scumbags

[hebertrich]

Who told you there was such a thing as a " honorable " businessmen in the first place.. ?
Everyone that wears a tie and suit is a scumbag in disguise. Never, ever, trust someone because he wears a suit.
Politicians are the best example of this.

Re:criminal scumbags

[bickerdyke]

Well, one half are honorable businessmen, the other half are "honorable businessmen"....

TTIP?

[Anonymous Coward]

seams they think there will be some laws in TTIP that will let them bend over euros just like you amis

PS.
TTIP == https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

make money fast :)

[blackest_k]

So let me see if I have this right
connect to a torrent and collect $10 from each person torrenting the file by notifying the ISP of the infringement, aint that great I can leach off this copyrighted stuff and make a bundle.

Using the DMCA, I thought A was for America anyway.

So which is the biggest paracite? The torrenters or RightsCorp?

all your monies

[Anonymous Coward]

vertical control of legislation, content creation, distribution, sale, and consumption.
ya know. cultural fascism.

You're not in Kansas anymore Toto

[Jahta]

From TFA:

I can’t give any specific dates, but we are getting a great reception from everyone we have spoken to [in the UK],” RightsCorp co-founder and CEO Robert Steele told TechWeekEurope.

It's significant, I think, that he singles out the UK which is becoming increasingly like the 51st state in legal/civil rights terms.

In the rest of Europe I'd suggest they won't find the legal and regulatory environment anything like as forgiving of their methods as the U.S.

Re:You're not in Kansas anymore Toto

[Anonymous Coward]

From TFA:

I can’t give any specific dates, but we are getting a great reception from everyone we have spoken to [in the UK],” RightsCorp co-founder and CEO Robert Steele told TechWeekEurope.

It's significant, I think, that he singles out the UK which is becoming increasingly like the 51st state in legal/civil rights terms.

Care to give some examples?

I think you are full of crap.

Re:You're not in Kansas anymore Toto

[jabuzz]

The won't find it that forgiving in the United Kingdom either. There has already been a copyright troll like this who tried to operate in the U.K. They are barred from practice at the moment and bankrupt. I suggest you search for "acs:law" to see how well it panned out for the last person who tried this.

Re:You're not in Kansas anymore Toto

[fustakrakich]

...UK which is becoming increasingly like the 51st state in legal/civil rights terms.

All of you are wagging the dog. The UK has always led the way for repressive action in Oceania. It is the US that is following.

Re:You're not in Kansas anymore Toto

[Jahta]

The won't find it that forgiving in the United Kingdom either. There has already been a copyright troll like this who tried to operate in the U.K. They are barred from practice at the moment and bankrupt. I suggest you search for "acs:law" to see how well it panned out for the last person who tried this.

Fair point. I'd forgotten about ACS:Law. That said, there are still fans of draconian measures against file-sharers in the current UK government. For example Government "must consider" jail time for illegal file-sharers.

Greedy Arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

So why is Rightscorp using these DMCA subpoenas? We asked the company, and CEO Christopher Sabec said that they believe the court made the wrong decision at the time. According to Sabec the verdict won’t hold up at the Supreme Court, so they’re ignoring it.

The sheer arrogance of these scumbags. Instead of challenging the clear legal precedent, they plan on just ignoring it until someone counter-sues them. I hope Rightscorp gets sued back into the stone age. I don't condone piracy, but I've read too many articles about scummy corporations claiming copyright over things that are clearly not theirs and get away with it because it takes too much money to fight them in court. [[http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/02/26/2141246/youtube-identifies-birdsong-as-copyrighted-music]]

Re:Greedy Arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

"sued back into the stone age" doesn't work for "corp" The corp dissolves, and the people take the money and make another corp. "Bombed back to the stone age" won't really help because they don't use their own infrastructure. If you want to hope for successful elimination of these pests, it's probably best to hope someone hires their murder on a dark market.

Just like Europe needs the U.S.A. for human rights

[Anonymous Coward]

I was being sarcastic. Obama, are you listening? I know you are. I was being sarcastic. Don't get ideas.

Yeah... this isn't going to fly

[Anonymous Coward]

In the European constitution, as well as in even stronger language various countries' constitutions, a right to privacy. The act of scanning a torrent for European IP addresses is already a gray area in the right to privacy. And then ask ISPs to divulge to whom the IP belongs is another major breach of privacy.

Said it best ?

[hebertrich]

There's an old cut from Fila Brazillia and they said it well ..

" Suck a tailpipe , fucking hang yourself , borrow a gun from a yank friend .. i dont care how you do it ,just rid the world of your fu****** evil machinations "
" kill yourself "

Dosen't it just sum up what everyone thinks about the copyrights lobby ?

Re:Said it best ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The quote is Bill Hicks (20 years dead this year). From the show 'Relentless':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

im pretty sure it wasnt by choice.

[nimbius]

The problem is Americans arent coughing up the cash. instead with the help of the FSF and other dedicated groups, courts are beginning to agree that IP addresses arent people. Most courts unanimously concede that movie studios cant sue regular people for infinite money either like they used to in the metallica napster days. And honestly, most ISP's are large enough to either ignore the service, lie about their compliance, or tell the RIAA to piss off. Comcast, who isnt an RIAA or MPAA member, could threaten to use DPI to black hole any references to a top ten artist for entire states like vermont if they were beholden to this extortion experiment.
Europe on the other hand (and lets not forget that abbott fucker whos slowly turning his country back into a prison colony) hasnt been privy to this dog and pony show. Maybe it will work, maybe it wont, but for Rightscorp to just sit on its rump and not try to expand means a slow death.

Re:im pretty sure it wasnt by choice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Comcast owns Universal Studios. So at least one part if it is an MPAA member.

Re:im pretty sure it wasnt by choice.

[Anonymous Coward]

The EFF not FSF (they focus their attention on putting GNU in front of Linux)

This was not a false claim

[voss]

This was an issue of Indmusic having a deal with Tunecore to monetize music published through its service. If you didnt publish your music
through tunecore then its not an issue. Your brother needs to read the TOS and decide if Tunecores uses of your brothers rights is what he wants.

Re:This was not a false claim

[pr0fessor]

Thanks, I looked it up. http://www.billboard.com/biz/a...

Now that I know what he was talking about, I think he is in the clear until they actually produce a video.

 

Your friend is the real criminal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you considered that you are an accomplice to his crimes for not reporting him?

I anticipate trouble.

[SuricouRaven]

The copyright term for parts of Europe is often less than in the US. I've a nice site I made that contains a lot of music which is public domain here in the UK, but still under copyright in the US. Unless they are very careful about dates, they are likely to end up threatening people for sharing music that is public domain because their bots are configured for the wrong jurisdiction.

Re:I anticipate trouble.

[RotateLeftByte]

The point is, they don't care. They sue/extort first and hope that they don't pick on someone with deep pockets who will sue the bejeezus out of them.
Just don't have any of that public domain music on any device you might take to the USA.

Re:I anticipate trouble.

[SuricouRaven]

https://birds-are-nice.me/musi...

If they try to sue me for that, I'll... back down without a fight, because I can't afford to spend my life's savings to stand up for my principles. But I will then tell everyone I can about the incident, including every internet rights organisation, and hope the backlash does some damage. Maybe one will even agree to pay the costs and handle the hassle for me.

Re:1st

[callmetheraven]

fail

No problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

The content industry hasn't made a single thing I want to consume in a long time. I cut my cable back in 1998 and stopped watching TV all together at that point. At first I found it a little difficult to not just "flip on the TV" but after a while I didn't miss it at all. The content companies are running under the assumption that everybody wants what they offer. It's not right that when I bought CD-R's for backup purposes I was paying a tax to the music industry even though I don't listen to any music. Just because so many people listen to music.

Misdirection.

[CaptainNerdCave]

Does this smell anything like the platform that our current president ran on, twice?

We don't need to pay more in taxes, we need to stop spending so much on things like war, unnecessary civil developments (Silent railroad crossings?), corporate welfare, politician pensions, etc. You're addressing a symptom of the problem, not the root: government spending and thieving to support private interests that are funneled through government spending.

Re:Misdirection.

[DocSavage64109]

What is discouraging is how do we decide what programs to really cut? Some want to cut civil programs and keep or increase military spending. Others want to do the opposite. It seems to be hard to determine what we should actually do.

Re:Misdirection.

[NotSanguine]

Does this smell anything like the platform that our current president ran on, twice?

We don't need to pay more in taxes, we need to stop spending so much on things like war, unnecessary civil developments (Silent railroad crossings?), corporate welfare, politician pensions, etc. You're addressing a symptom of the problem, not the root: government spending and thieving to support private interests that are funneled through government spending.

Yes, there is a lot of waste in government. Especially on the military side. And corporate welfare and all kinds of other things. Government spending is absolutely an issue. Creating a fairer tax code would help too. Also, having economic and tax policies that encourage reinvestment in our society, its infrastructure and instruments of personal advancement (education, fairer employer/employee interactions, health care, child care, etc., etc., etc.) would be extremely helpful, IMHO.

The Democratic party and the Republican party are completely under the control of our oligarchs. Wealth and income inequality, the limiting of social mobility (through poor education, the growth of the prison population, destruction of full-time jobs, etc., etc., etc.), the rise of the surveillance (both government, and more troubling, corporate) society and the huge lies being told and believed about who benefits are all consequences of this.

The Obama administration is doing the same things the Bush administration did. The House and Senate (regardless of party) are just as corrupt and broken. Just because the Democrats sometimes *talk* about social justice and equality of opportunity, doesn't mean they're actually doing anything about it. The political theater of the "left" and "right" (if you really look at the actual, not the stated, policies of both "sides" we're not really very far apart) sets us against each other while the oligarchs bleed us. It's really sad.

Massive government spending is just another symptom. The root of the problem is that our government is beholden to the monied interests. They aren't going to loosen their grip unless we force them to do so. I wish I knew how to do that.

Re:Misdirection.

[Hotawa Hawk-eye]

United States military spending is the highest in the world (higher than the countries in positions 2 through 9 COMBINED, and some of those countries are our staunch allies.) If you cut out our allies France, United Kingdom, and Germany we outspend the other 11 on the list on that Wikipedia page combined. Who are we afraid is going to invade us? Who are we planning to invade?

If we wanted to cut our spending to the point where we're outspending China and Russia combined by 50% (at which point our spending would exceed the combined military budgets of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and France) we could drop a little over 226 billion dollars. That's not a small chunk of money.

Re:Misdirection.

[sjames]

Let's see, killing people vs. helping the poor. One of those aligns well with Christian values the Right supposedly champions.

Re:Misdirection.

[Anonymous Coward]

US military = Welfare in other nations.

We have "unemployment insurance" and "welfare" the US has the military to hire almost anyone.

They make tanks no one wants as someone has "special interest" that some state keep the manufacturing going.

I've often wondered if it would be easier/cheaper/safer to just pay the "enemy" (both real and imaginary) to be nice?

Re:Misdirection.

[Anonymous Coward]

The political theater of the "left" and "right"

Stage left, stage right, same stage manager.

Re:Misdirection.

[Anonymous Coward]

Approach "comprises" on spending cuts the same way we approached the "compromises" on the original spending increases...pass everything.

Re:Misdirection.

[jbo5112]

They don't have to invade us. They just have to start trading oil for something other than USD. Once that happens, overseas demand for USD drops, and the value of the money with it. With the petrodollar over, we won't be able to print endless money for government loans and export the inflation anymore.

Do artists benefit?

[X10]

They would have a point if the money would go to the artists. But it doesn't.

Re:Do artists benefit?

[abies]

One could argue that blackmailing and scamming is a form of art, so...

Copyright owners are RightsCorp's clients

[tepples]

if RightsCorp doesn't own the intellectual property, again the ISPs can safely ignore it.

As I understand this arrangement, RightsCorp represents the copyright owner. If EUCD is anything like DMCA, then so long as RightsCorp can prove that the copyright owner is its client, RightsCorp can submit a notice of claimed infringement.

Re:Copyright owners are RightsCorp's clients

[Anonymous Coward]

if RightsCorp doesn't own the intellectual property, again the ISPs can safely ignore it.

As I understand this arrangement, RightsCorp represents the copyright owner. If EUCD is anything like DMCA, then so long as RightsCorp can prove that the copyright owner is its client, RightsCorp can submit a notice of claimed infringement.

Oh, I was under the impression it was 'legal trolling' without the much needed evidence as to waste the ISPs time, and even score with some of the gullible ISPs out there. (a scary thought actually)

Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music

[tepples]

The content is all original

But how can your brother's band prove that its music is original? There are only 105 million distinct musical hooks under one plausible metric,* and with all the millions of songs already published, your song's hook might have collided with that of an existing song. See for example Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music, where a copyright owner successfully sued over an accidental infringement.

* Music is about intervals. Each note has a duration and a difference in pitch to the next note. There are seven distinct pitches in the scale, and durations can (roughly) be short or long. This gives 7*2 = 14 possibilities for each interval. A hook with eight notes has seven intervals, and 14^7 = 105,413,504.

Re:Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music

[pr0fessor]

Well his copyright application went through so it should at least protect him from vague DMCA take down notices.

* Music is about intervals. Each note has a duration and a difference in pitch to the next note. There are seven distinct pitches in the scale, and durations can (roughly) be short or long. This gives 7*2 = 14 possibilities for each interval. A hook with eight notes has seven intervals, and 14^7 = 105,413,504

If you start applying more music theory using chords, cadences, and standard chord progressions the number of possibilities gets even smaller, because it limits which chords can be played in succession.

WIPO Copyright Treaty

[tepples]

Using the DMCA, I thought A was for America anyway.

Nope. WIPO is the World Intellectual Property Organization. Both the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) and the EUCD (European Union Copyright Directive) are implementations of the same WIPO Copyright Treaty.

Musical work copyright; IP geolocation

[tepples]

For one thing, even though copyright in recordings may expire after 50 years, the recording is also subject to the copyright in the underlying musical work. That lasts until 70 years after the end of the year in which the last surviving songwriter died. Besides, they could still sue you in a United States court for having violated United States copyright law by making the works available without appropriate IP address geolocation methods. I was able to reach that page through Comcast in Indiana.

Re:Musical work copyright; IP geolocation

[SuricouRaven]

In which case I can at least get some publicity and further reveal to the world what a one-sided sham copyright law is, when even the public domain is so convoluted as to be unuseable and national law is meaningless.

I've been trying to figure out how the underlying musical work copyright actually works in this situation. I honestly can't tell if it's an issue or not, I keep finding contradictory information on the subject. I'm not actually doing anything with the musical work, it just happens to be incidential in the expired recording.

Also, the copyright in sound recordings expires after 70 years, not 50. It was 50, until last year, when it was extended - but already-expired works were not re-copyrighted. That means anything published* pre-1963 has expired, but no more will expire for twenty years, baring further extension.

* Published, not recorded. Many artists went on to have successful careers many years after their death, such as Buddy Holly, as the labels released their unpublished works one at a time.

BS

[Anonymous Coward]

Extremely few children in this country lives in true poverty. With public assistance, most "poor" live a life of luxury many in the truly poor parts of the world can only dream of having.

The idea that to allow everyone to get ahead, we need to bring down the top to meet the bottom is pure lunacy.

Any individual in our country with the desire to improve their station can do so. The idea that somehow the man is holding everyone down is a creation of government, left and right, to subjugate the populace. Sadly many have fallen for this hook, line, and sinker.

Cell phones, internet, and cable TV are luxury wants, not needs. Eating meals at a restaurant (even McDonalds) is a luxury.

The reality is that you'll never be able to fix stupid. You simply can't protect people from themselves.

Re:BS

[NotSanguine]

Extremely few children in this country lives in true poverty. With public assistance, most "poor" live a life of luxury many in the truly poor parts of the world can only dream of having.

The idea that to allow everyone to get ahead, we need to bring down the top to meet the bottom is pure lunacy.

Any individual in our country with the desire to improve their station can do so. The idea that somehow the man is holding everyone down is a creation of government, left and right, to subjugate the populace. Sadly many have fallen for this hook, line, and sinker.

Cell phones, internet, and cable TV are luxury wants, not needs. Eating meals at a restaurant (even McDonalds) is a luxury.

The reality is that you'll never be able to fix stupid. You simply can't protect people from themselves.

The reality is much more nuanced and complex. I suggest you educate yourself. I doubt you will, and so I pity you the illusions you've bought into. Feel free to disagree and even say mean things about me. I don't mind.

The Utilitarian concept that all ideas should be expressed, examined and debated is an excellent one. It allows us to weigh all the ideas against each other as well as against the realities of our existence. In the end, the best ideas (sadly, often in retrospect) will be seen for what they are.

In the meantime, far be it for me to try to disabuse you of your world view. You need to decide for yourself.

Re:BS

[Maritz]

Extremely few children in this country lives in true poverty.

How many of them are truly Scottish, that's what I need to know.

Surely you mean this ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill Hicks on Marketting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

(Quote starts at 1:04 for those of you with busy lives)

The next Jammie Thomas

[tepples]

In which case I can at least get some publicity

Are you willing to pay the maximum statutory damages for this publicity if you're successfully sued?

Re:The next Jammie Thomas

[SuricouRaven]

I have done everything I can to ensure legality. That includes not just making sure all the music was published before 1963, but also that it is all original release version - not later digital remastering. That's why it's largely mono. I'd like to run this by a real copyright attorney,is i one who is actually qualified, but I can't afford that. This is, to the best of my knowledge, all legal. I admit there is a possibility of my being mistaken, which is why I also state on the page that I will remove any infringing material as soon as I am notified by the (ex)copyright holder. The only reason any of them would want to actually sue rather than settle things peacefully would be sheer vinictiveness.

I have noticed that there was a great deal of lobbying to extend the term on sound recordings. Successfully. I do not see why there would be such urgency if said recordings were also covered as musical compositions for at least another twenty years and usually many decades more.

I was hoping the advertising would partially cover hosting costs. No such luck: I've made a whole 10p off of it so far.

How looking at the USA? Youtube = *MASSIVE* theft

[Anonymous Coward]

and lots of other things now own by Google. Scan loads of EU books and rip off european authors, oh that's ok it's not the USA.

The DMCA = USA law.

statistics

[CaptainNerdCave]

There are three types of lies:
1. Lies
2. Damn lies
3. Statistics

In a poverty-stricken community of 1000 people where 999 people earn $10000 per year, one person earns $100000000. That results in an average (mean) income of $109900 per person, which is not at all representative of the poverty. The problem with economic statistics is that they are painfully skewed by the top incomes.

Re:statistics

[NotSanguine]

There are three types of lies: 1. Lies 2. Damn lies 3. Statistics

In a poverty-stricken community of 1000 people where 999 people earn $10000 per year, one person earns $100000000. That results in an average (mean) income of $109900 per person, which is not at all representative of the poverty. The problem with economic statistics is that they are painfully skewed by the top incomes.

Which is why the *median* is used and not the mean. Your folksy homilies are quaint, but unpersuasive. I suggest you actually try to understand this stuff. I'll counter your folksy homily with one of my own. "'tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Tag. You're it.

This will fail

[Anonymous Coward]

as it should fail. We all know the notion of "intellectual property" is tripe. Slowly but surely, free/libre software is choking the life from the web servers, file servers, mail servers, firewalls, you name it, and this is how it should be. People in general tend to dislike RMS, but time and time again he is proven right.

These types of companies always fail at their stated goal. While I don't do anything personally to get on the bad side of companies like this, I still loathe what they stand for -- the continuance of heavily proprietary, DRM'd useless capitalistic crapware, music, movies. No thanks. I'll stick with my free/libre software and growing stable of open hardware tools.

Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Wealth redistribution doesn't work either. Greed reigns supreme whether the Ds or Rs are in charge. What we need to do is get back to our roots. When this country started there were no taxes, no welfare, no social security, no WIC, no bloated government entities, and no subsidies either. We became the greatest nation in the world out of that environment. Something worth thinking about considering now we're quickly devolving in the other direction. Corporations only pay people peanuts because they are willing to work for peanuts. When they're not willing to work for peanuts is when they'll get paid a living wage. But in order for that to work the corporation can't have the option of "well then someone else will work for peanuts."

Ip != real person

[nurb432]

But it does = an account holder, who can be held liable for improper use.

How?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well we start by you volunteering to pay first, then we begin deducting an additional 25% of your salary to donate to a family in need ,and lastly we start doing the same thing with others that willingly volunteer their earnings to help the needy.
Thank you sir for your assistance in these difficult times.

Re:How looking at the USA? Youtube = *MASSIVE* the

[Anonymous Coward]

This is consistent with the history of the US. It use to be the worlds most prolific copyright infringer. Then US authors started to complain and poof, copyright laws.

IPv6

[dave420]

They might have an issue with most torrent trackers using IPv4, because modern ISPs who provide IPv6 connectivity to their customers have a few public-facing IPv4 addresses shared among all their subscribers.