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You've Got Male: Amazon's Growth Impacting Seattle Dating Scene
reifman (786887) writes "San Francisco's gender imbalance is so bad that a startup recently proposed flying women in from New York City for dates. But, if you're a straight male thinking of moving to Seattle to work in technology, think again. Seattle's gender ratio is even more imbalanced and it's about to get much worse for men. Amazon is building out enough space to employ 5% of the city population and its workforce is 75 percent male. By the end of 2014, Seattle will have 130 single men for every 100 single women."
Brazzers.
Tell me ladies, are you not very attractive, given to big glasses and serious introspection?
COME TO SILICON VALLEY, learn useless coding techniques, give out buggy code and ask the nerdiest soon-to-be-billionaire to help you grow in the profession.
After the divorce, you won't ever have to work again!
Will it have 13 men per 10 women? 26 men per 20 women?
Will it even have... 30% more men than women???
I am certainly glad to have at least gotten out of one rat race. Good luck out their guys. At least those jobs will pay enough so that you can travel to place that still have single women.
If only there was a way to create a more equally gender balanced workforce...
So.... just to throw this out there. Why the presumption that Amazon's new hires will be 75% male?
Wow a startup has started a business around the worlds oldest profession.
http://www.mailorderbrides.com/
As a woman I think this must be great news! But as a foreigner - should I aim for Seattle or San Fransisco?
They still have Alaska beat.
I'll take that ratio any day over my time in the Navy, where the ratio on a ship was about 50:1 male to female.
Ever date one of those guys at Amazon? All work and no play.
Time to move there!! HURRAY! Hey, desperate men do all kinds of things. ;p
Queue the legion of people who will insist that Seattle companies be forced to hire less-qualified people who happen to be women.
If this bothers you: stop telling little girls that they're pretty, and instead tell them that they're smart. Don't ask them their favorite princess, ask them what they want to be when they grow up.
I suppose if you're a gay male that sounds like Utopia. Welcome to Seattle, the new San Francisco.
The Space Needle will take on new allegorical significance as a monument!
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Everett, Tacoma-Lakewood-Puyallup, and Kitsap County have massive military populations (figure around 80-90% male for the military subpopulation). There's a tendency for the junior enlisted men to marry the local girls right out of high school, then they move away with their young wives on their next assignment. (These women often divorce their husbands when they find a place they like better than their hometown). ...And around 50% of the women left behind aren't worth dating.
if you're a straight male thinking of moving to Seattle to work in technology, it's probably still okay for you to do that. If you are a straight male thinking of moving to Seattle to get a date, then maybe you should think again.
This is symptomatic of the gender inequality of their hires and hiring for this sector in general. Instead of "blaming" Amazon, we should insist that all tech companies (including Amazon) support more education amongst the underrepresented genders, races, etc.
It's in their best long-term interests, anyway, since working for Amazon (for example) is now less attractive because it's now... less attractive literally. At some point the increase collective pay they'd have to offer will be greater than the amount they could use to fund these sorts of initiatives.
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(*) Said author of the original debunked article also has the same user name as the submitter here - such a coincidence! I also note his last Slashdot submission was the also-debunked "OMG! Skydiver catches meteor falling on camera!" thing that was proven false a few days later. The Force is not strong with this one, fellow Jedi...
Obligatory.
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos...
Seattle proper is actually relatively small, and surrounded by dozens of smaller cities and towns. I would wager that the overall metro area has close to a 1:1 ratio, but that young, single men tend to move into the city to be close to work, especially before starting a family. Housing in the city is expensive, but more livable for someone in a 1-bedroom or studio apartment. Once you need more space than that, the suburbs are much more appealing.
William George
I was cold emailed about a job position at Amazon about a month ago, but they would give almost no information about the compensation and benefits unless I actually applied to "the first selection round", other than it was located in Seattle. I had absolutely nothing to compare it to my current position. The person with whom I traded a few emails wouldn't even tell me what the number of vacation days were at the start of employment, nor even a general pay range. Given that I live in a much sunnier climate, and like my job, they certainly didn't do a good job of enticing me as a possible candidate.
If this is not debunked, then it's not a new issue for Seattle.
The Mercer Girls were an 1860s project of Asa Shinn Mercer, an American who lived in Seattle, who decided to "import" women to the Pacific Northwest to balance the gender ratio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
Which inspired the TV series:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle
And the hills are green as green in Seattle
Am I the only one that remembers that 70's western comedy show?
I suspect this isn't so bad for American men as the OP lets on. Consider the effect of H1Bs on these numbers... I live in Seattle; all the large tech companies here (and even a lot of the smaller ones) hire a disproportionate number of H1B holders, most from India. Most Indians aren't after American women, they either come here with a wife already, or their family back in India arranges a marriage, they fly home for a few weeks and come back married.
I know plenty of single girls, and I've never had a problem finding a date. It does require leaving work at work and going out to places where other single people congregate, and it helps to not be a total jackass, but I don't think we're really anywhere near as unbalanced as this would lead one to believe.
I think you missed the point -- the ratio is projected to get around 30% worse in the near future. Same number of women, 30% more jackasses.
Your typical engineer working for Amazon is educated, really smart, and eccentric (by the standards of most people). They are likely to have an IQ in the top 5% of the world population, and will be looking for partners who are also in the same league (so pretty much only about 5% of the available women in the area are in the running). So sure, there will be a massive influx of male engineers to the Seattle area. It's generally good news for smart girls, bad news for smart males, and of no importance to everyone else (neglecting gay folks). So the few eligible women who would be interesting to engineering types will simply have that many more engineers to choose from...
There was a 4:1 ratio for the number of men to women...
But if you computed it by weight, it came out even.
Sensitivity training, here I come!
> If this bothers you: stop telling little girls that they're pretty, and instead tell them that they're smart. Don't ask them their favorite princess, ask them what they want to be when they grow up.
This! I asked my ex-wife's 17 year old daughter what she wanted to do for a living and they way she looked at me, it seems nobody had ever asked her that question before. She has no idea. My daughter, who is now one week old, will be able toanswer that question by the time she's five (and change her mind six times after that).
I gave up.
Look, masturbation's more efficient anyway.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
I don't think there will be very many problems statistically
for obvious reasons
...and change her mind six times after that).
Well, you know what they say about a woman's perrogative. Wait. Stop throwing things at me. Ow. Ow. Ow.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
It also affect Silicon Valley...HIV...
Unless all of them is in the same room. Then it gets quite crowded.
...for smart business-orientated women to start-up the world's oldest profession in the Seattle area.
oh...Tinder's already covering that base.
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
So it pushed ugly, unhealthy, and otherwise undesirable males out of the gene pool. Good! Have you seen what happens to the genetic disadvantages and diseases and average IQ in small, isolated communities? It's the same thing when it's 1:1. Imbalance in either direction ensures that adaptation and fitness improvements occur.
When I was going to Georgia Tech, I would have given anything for a 1.3:1 ratio.
Back when Seattle's #1 occupation was logging, there were many more men than women.
This is why Seattle's red-light district, Pioneer Square, is now a celebrated tourist attraction.
Seattle's male/female imbalance is what started the United Parcel Service, which got its start in Seattle as a bike messenger service relaying messages between hookers and johns.
I lived in Seattle, had no problem dating women and even found one silly enough to marry me. Don't worry about it, if you're not a tool, you'll be fine.
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Dang, ladies..
Time to put on those knee-pads .. there is a line of men for each of you every day.
I know you are women enough to shine!
Considering that the number of H1Bs is limited to 0.0002% of the population, they might make a good scapegoat, but tthey make essentially zero impact on anything.
It may be .0002% of the total US population, but it's not a uniform distribution across all states, cities, and companies.
Its irrelevant, at least 30 of those men will be tech works and we all know that us nerds don't have girlfriends so that leaves 100 guys for a 100 women...
Why the fuck should a 17 year old be able to answer that?
When I was 17 I couldn't answer that question. I certainly couldn't have answered that I wanted to go and do a PhD in computer engineering, or that I wanted to move to Colorado.
In fact, when I was 22 I still couldn't have told you that.
I think you missed the point -- the ratio is projected to get around 30% worse in the near future. Same number of women, 30% more jackasses.
Actually, it's you who missed the point:
"By the end of 2014, Reifman projects, there will be 130 single men in Seattle for every 100 single women — up from a ratio of 119 single men to 100 single women in April 2010."
So, it's not "Same number of women, 30% more jackasses," it's "Same number of women, 9% more jackasses."
a lot of women = a number of human females greater than an arbitrary number larger than 2, depending on context
a lot of Woman = one human female with a big personality or big physical measurements of one sort or another, or both.
More music, fewer hits
By the end of 2014, Seattle will have 130 single men for every 100 single women.
Worst. Orgy. Ever.
Of all time.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
This is even worse than the situation in China where it's reported there are 122:100 men to women.
http://www.globalpost.com/disp...
Have a Day!
A company called Amazon has a mostly male work force.
Working for Amazon and not being able to get a date. Can there be any worse fate for a young guy? I guess you could also have acne.
And those who work in Seattle might think about moving. Rent will soon grow even more outrageous. That's one reason why I left last August. Seattle traffic, already the 9th worst in the country, will only grow worse, particularly with 'traffic calming' ideologues doing their best to reduce the number of lanes and choke up streets. They did that to mine--another reason why I left. And tired of how their politicians waste money on mega-projects, the city's citizens just voted down a tax increase that would have kept the number of bus routes from being slashed.
The rest of America should listen. That giant sucking sound they hear to their NW is retail sales money leaving their community for Seattle.
Serious question - Where are you finding date-able women in Seattle? I moved here 2 years ago and have not met many. It could be that our definition of date-able differs a bit.
Over analyzing the idea.
There are 40 year olds who live in their parent's basements and have no idea what they will do.
There are 40 year olds who are very successful, who still don't know what they want to do.
Very few people know precisely what they want to do.
But by the time they are juniors in high school, they should have some set of skills that can help them move forward as opposed to "being a princess". That is a very limited position, with few available openings, and an excessive amount of competition.
not against women...the stereotypes about how "tech" work has to be autism-inducing, basement dewelling, spaghetti coding, geek competition
1. Culturally: Tech jobs, even coding, involves directly working with the people in your workplace. Even if you telecommute you still do tons of human interaction...furthermore, all tech is ultimately for the *human user*
2. Geeky Culture: "geek culture" has never been more popular among women, especially smart younger women who would be the logical next cadre of tech new hires. The problem is stereotypes and systemic dead weight...not 'geek culture' or women's access to it...also: more women gamers now than ever
3. Catch 22: Men who tend to make assumptions will tend to assume the wrong causes for women's behavior...especially men in tech who don't usually work with women
4. Peer pressure: Everything in our media tells women that if they want to get married they have to **look like a pornstar** and be permiscous but not "slutty" and find the right man before they turn 30...when a woman says she thinks she can have a career, party, look good AND have a family their friends will try to dissuade them.
get a clue...everyone...all techies....everywhere....talk to women about this...not just the opinionated ones...ask them how they feel and you'll seem I'm right
tech alienates women...it's a dorky version of a Country Club mentality
Thank you Dave Raggett
At least a 15% imbalance for 30 and younger after better family planning technology came along. I've heard of unrest in some of China's factories by bored young men. I dont know about India.
Unless they're all working for the same few companies... I worked at Microsoft for several years, and my group was easily 50% H1B workers, and probably closer to 60-70% in reality. So, when we're talking about local statistics and the local effect of companies hiring, we need to look at the local H1B population for relevance. H1Bs might make up a tiny percentage of the national population, but at the local level it's a very significant percentage, especially in Bellevue/Redmond/Kirkland and parts of Seattle.
Suppose one area had 1000X as many H1B as average. That area would have 0.2% H1B.
83% of people think they are smarter than average.
Which means that nearly half of the people who THINK they are smart are actually dumb. All of those people search for some expanation of why they didn't get hired. They are certainly smart enough, they think.
And if half of that 9% are H1Bs, it's really "9% more jackasses, of which 4.5% are potentially serious competition."
And if half of that 9% are H1Bs, it's really "9% more jackasses, of which 4.5% are potentially serious competition."
Let's assume that those 4.5% aren't all single.
The headline then becomes "Women have to deal with a 3% increase in jackasses in the Seattle singles scene."
Sounds about right.
...produce a musical comedy.
... as opposed to "being a princess". That is a very limited position, with few available openings, and an excessive amount of competition.
Actually, there's not a whole lot of competition, but the industry is so full of nepotism that there are only a handful of examples of princesses who weren't handed the position from a close relative.
I have to agree. When I was there, it was easily 40% H1B workers in my department. Walking around the halls and cafes, I could see even more. I never actually sat down and counted anyone, but I would say that 40-50% of the people were H1Bs, easy.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. But light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
The author is clearly sexist. Both Seattle and San Francisco are home to many gay males. Implying that the dating scene requires females is clearly a flawed analysis.
Poor baristas. Think of how desperately these guys are going to be flirting with the gal whipping up their grande latte.
> couldn't have answered that I wanted to go and do a PhD in computer engineering, or that I wanted to move to Colorado.
> In fact, when I was 22 I still couldn't have told you that.
I bet that at 17 you knew you wanted to go to college and study computers. That's what you wanted to do when you were 17 or so. Maybe later you decided exactly how MUCH college - a PhD. I doubt that at 17 you had no idea what direction you wanted to head. I say that because seventeen year olds with no plan whatsoever are more likely to end up with convictions than with PhDs.
It's likely that it does... by datable I mean "interested in an actual relationship (not just sex), low drama, low maintenance, mature and smart enough to hold an intelligent conversation and not just prattle on about what so-and-so said on facebook." Those type of girls can be found anywhere... usually behind the counter at the local Starbucks, or working at the grocery store, or wherever. It takes time to get to know them, and you have to show that you actually care about them and are somehow different from the other 200 guys trying to get their attention - usually that involves talking to them and not just telling them they're hot.
That's good to know about the office environment. I'm guessing the warehouses are where the bad working conditions are.
Most architects build enough restroom stalls to match code, and they calculate based on a 50/50 gender distribution. So if 200 people work in a building floor and code requires one restroom stall per 50 people, at most buildings there will be two stalls in the men's room and two in the ladies'room.
But if the gender distribution isn't 50/50...
Sounds like a bit of a sausage fest. Like (say), mining towns, where no self-respecting woman would live, bar fights start at a drop of a hat, and hookers come in on a fly-in-fly-out basis... And where most entertainment is paid-for.
Actually, I've been to Seattle, and it's not that bad at all, and quite a nice part of the world (apart from the weather). But still, you have to broaden your horizons if you want to find a mate...
Those ratios are terrible. No wonder I had to snatch up someone soon after they moved in from out of town. If we have sons, they're sure be getting the stick and twist living here.
Remember the Mutiny on the Bounty? Ever read the REAL story and wonder why most of the crew wanted to go with Bligh? So many that some were not loaded onto the dinghy but put ashore later? What was up with that? Fletcher Christian stopped off at Tahiti, took 7 women and 11 Tahitian men, and arrived at Pitcairn Island where they blew up the Bounty to escape detection. The Mutineers enslaved the Tahitian men, who soon revolted, and a wave of killing shook the island, resulting in a few years with ALL the men save one dead. Christian was among the first to die, slaughtered in his house's front yard in front of his Tahitian wife.
Funny how they leave that part out of the movies.
Men competing over a shrinking group of women is never a good thing. Those "undesirable males" can always just kill people to get into the gene pool. Indeed studies show that murderers have about 3 more children on average than men who do not murder; look at Djokar Tsarnaev, the Petersons, Scott and Drew, Charles Manson, all with women all over them. The easiest, cheapest way to get women is to start killing, which is why most sensible societies constrain female mate choice so that every lid gets a pot, so to speak. Matriarchies like West Africa, where women don't need male investment and do all the work where men compete to be the best singer, dancer, fighter are far more violent than sedate, highly constrained societies like Iceland where women even under the Welfare State MUST have a male provider to adaquately provide for kids over a nearly twenty year span.
Moreover, human society (absent dead ends like West Africa, and the ME) require ever higher levels of technology to survive. Imagine your day with no oil, gas, electricity, all that does not happen by magic and requires nerdy, unsexy men not the kind of dangerous bad boy who gives women thrills down their legs but keeps the highly complex systems running. Without nerdy, unsexy guys you are looking at a massive genetic loss by massive die-offs, not the least of which is a return to infant mortality rates of the mid-19th Century of basically 50%.
Who is Darwinian now? Humans depend on technology, which means unsexy nerdy guys, not the hot babe or the dangerous bad boy who can't even add.
When I was there, it was easily 40% H1B workers in my department. Walking around the halls and cafes, I could see even more.
How could you tell that someone is there on H1B simply by looking at them?
And have you thought about offering your services to the state of Arizona? I'm sure they'd be very interested in your unique abilities.
If you have a gender-balanced population, and you add an extra 5% that is 75% M, your M/F ratio changes to 102.5/100. The real-life impact of Amazon expanding is almost necessarily lower than that. If you go to TFA and then click through to the original blog post, you can see that the 130/100 estimate is largely based on other factors, but the author goes out of his way to blame Amazon, who according to my estimate is only a minor contributing factor to an existing trend. And of course, he has a wildly inaccurate clickbait title on top of his piece, happily copied by GeekWire and Slashdot. I'm more and more starting to feel that if bloggers want to enjoy the same legal protection a journalists, they should be required to have some journalistic standards in return. Call it a favor to society in turn for a favor from society. And the same goes for actual journalists. Once upon a time, they were the protectors of democracy, while all that remains now is a privileged class that works for the public image of the higest bidder and has limited accountability.
But hey, whatever you think.
Oh, and stop bugging my roommate when she says no, cause she really doesn't care if you're rich or not, and that was a really really weird date she was on with you.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I moved to Seattle from Australia for a job with Amazon and I couldn't get a date. I was living like a monk the whole time and it was a huge part of why I left...
So this article is not a surprise for me.
You should have gotten rid of your wife's high heels. The simple explanation is that your daughter is taking after your wife. Now if your wife dresses like a coal miner, and your daughter still fancies Barbie, only then can we safely assume that "girly" things are indeed baked into some girls' DNA.
When I was in college, the dorm I lived in (co-ed by floor) has a 8 to 1 female to male ratio. I used to say that some asswipe dude had 16 of them.
I hope my math is correct. :)
Have gnu, will travel.
Why the fuck should a 17 year old be able to answer that?
Goals. It may not be the same thing they want to do when they are 22 or 30. But they are thinking about something and working toward it.
Dating hint for all you high school guys: Ask a girl what she would study in college and do as a profession. If she doesn't have an immediate answer, run like hell.
Have gnu, will travel.
Arizona already has this ability, they are just legally prevented from using it.
the world suddenly comes to an end when a queue forms at the bathroom door
Agree wholeheartedly. When I attended M.I.T. the Male:Female ratio was 5:1. And the "1" wasn't anything to get excited about. Funny thing, I talked to a fellow student at the time, who had transferred in from West Point. He was drooling at the "babes" we had on campus. The only thing that helped me cope was the cross registration program with the local all-girls school: Wellesley College.
130 to 100? Not so bad. Back in 1864, Seattle's ratio was something like 9 to 1. Then Asa Mercer imported a few score young ladies from Massachusetts. Worked like a charm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Girls
Bullshit. H1B's are a tiny fraction of the workforce even in Seattle. I think many people confuse immigrants and people with foreign appearances as H1B workers.
most likely he is using the racist approach and judging based on appearance, so anyone that looks like they are from overseas origin are being H1B's, considering the information is freely available online, MS only applied for 12,000 H1B's in a 3 year period, that means the number of H1B's working there is going to be somewhere south of 10%.
..any place I worked since 1980
Engineering offices are very close to 100% male
and A quick search online says you are full of shit. unless MS have suddenly sacked sacked 10's of thousands of employees. http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa...
1970's TV series, "Here Come the Brides" about Seattle. Isn't it time for a reboot?
Cranky educator.
I guess she can't leave me without a new sponsor.
Has 10 women for every 9 males.
I didn't say IQ, but if you want to use IQ as a numerical measure of "smart", IQ is DEFINED based on the median. Each standard deviation from the median is defined as 15 IQ points. So I'm not ASSUMING, that's true by definition.
We just discovered one person who is in the 40%.
So it stands to reason there is an abundance of females somewhere. Where?
Where are the places these men came from, leaving behind an excess of women?!
Clearly, remote workers back in the flyover states have a surplus of girls.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
India has changed. A sexual revolution has been underway in India for the last 30 years or so thanks to globalization. Besides, the H1B Indians in the US was mostly introverted engineers who cannot get a date and therefore are not representative of India. Like any other nation, most Indians are extroverted since the introversion/extroversion ratio is mostly innate/genetic and not race or culture dependent as far as I know.
First the international cable channels and then the Internet have been exposing Indians to western culture day in and day out for the last two decades. Arranged marriage is now very rare among the new generation of Indians who grew up on facebook and sexting. Dating, casual sex, and multiple sexual partners are very common among the urban youth even among the low income families.
Even in the 20th century urban India, arranged marriage did not exist, at least in the backward sense that is conveniently assumed by westerners (i.e. parents arranging your partner for you without your consent). Instead boy would meet girl in a cafe or their house and discuss their likes and dislikes, maybe even have sex, and only then decide to marry. The problem is that due to sex being quite a dirty word in public India and not existing in public discourse, there is very little statistics avaibale on premarital sex among Indians over the last and this century.
Imagine even if only the introverted nerds and geeks from America visited India. What impression of the America will Indians have? :) It is this same problem that you Americans face about your impression of India that you gather from your limited interactions with the Indians in America who are mostly engineers and therefore mostly introverted.
I've been thinking about getting a drawing commissioned involving it: the erected needle dick of Seattle splooging into all the sports stadiums.
Easy just ship some of the women from Kentucky out there. THey are fat enough to eat two guys each.
"them is" here's one guy who didn't get the job "because H1B stole it from him".
Most west coast males choose IT to be with other males. Apple is always hiring.
What this means is with a 50/50 split on restrooms there is plenty of capacity for the ladies. Men, just he opposite. Expect to shuffle between floors to find respite. 130 to 100 is the ratio of men to women in China. Congrats Amazon, in 10 years you created the gender imbalance that took the one-child policy ~30 years to achieve overseas. Of course, I'm sure Boeing and Microsoft aren't contributing to the observed imbalance, right?
What's the implication here? That all that's going to be left in S Fran is gay males? And most of Seattle's are too? Well.. Seattle *is* darn close to Vancouver and Davie Street...
When I found myself in the pool about ten years ago, it was tough. Google "Seattle freeze". I don't know if it's Scandanavian reticence or what, but time and again I saw deliberate walls built by women. Online was the only way to get traction, and even then only with eHarmony, whose fees and entry questionnaire seem to weed out the window-shoppers. If one is 6'0" things open up a bit, or if one works for MSFT, which is a closed ecosystem.
are from the midwest, meaning they are homely and expensive
It seems to me that this should be reworded to ..."impacts the heterosexual dating scene"... - as it sounds like it's prime territory for man on man lovin'!
The solution is gangbangs!
I seriously believe my point has been missed.
Even if you work your ass off, it's not going to bring back your blue collar job from overseas.
Even in a technical field, working your ass off is not automatically rewarded, unless you *ask* for more rewards, and even then, with a verbal agreement in place, you can end up not getting the promised rewards.
You have exactly the same "risk" of children believing the world works, automatically, to reward hard work, as you do having them believe the world works, automatically, to reward intelligence. There is absolutely *nothing* automatic about it.
If those 4.5% aren't all single, neither are their girlfriends.
Unless you want to claim they are gay, you need to subtract the same number on both sides.
Similar phenomena occur in smaller cities (like Troy, NY) that host big engineering universities and companies and at the same time are not geographically close to bigger/more balanced cities. I've lived in such a city in Germany for several years (200.000 people and two HUGE engineering universities). The problem is less than in ages 20-35 men significantly outnumber women, but rather that virtually all men come from a similar background, have above average intelligence, are well educated, good in math and analytical thinking etc. The result is -especially if we are talking about a 'top tier' university- that a single guy's competition in such a place are freaken bodybuilders with PhDs in electrical engineering who also play 2 musical instruments. And these guys are everywhere. So you can only imagine what kind of entitlement women in such places develop...
Du kan glomma dina ensama stunder, du kan lita paa teknikens under - Wilmer X