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The Sudden Policy Change In Truecrypt Explained
X10 (186866) writes "I use Truecrypt, but recently someone pointed me to the SourceForge page of Truecrypt that says it's out of business. I found the message weird, but now there's an explanation: Truecrypt has received a letter from the NSA."
Anyone with a firmer source (or who can debunk the claim), please chime in below; considering the fate of LavaBit, it sure sounds plausible. PCWorld lists some alternative software, for Windows users in particular, but do you believe that Microsoft's BitLocker is more secure?
You're taking twitter posts too seriously. That's just speculation based on what appeared on their site the other day, followed by:
"Alyssa Rowan @AlyssaRowan
@munin @0xabad1dea @puellavulnerata I can confirm presence of TrueCrypt duress canary as per 2004 conversation"
Sorry, who the fuck are you?
There is no concrete information that the NSA or a national security letter was involved. When did we start linking to random blogs for speculation presented as fact? May as well just posted a link to reddit thread about this.
He is not making extraordinary claims, so reputation is irrelevant.
Fyi Truecrypt, with its dubious code provenance, has been suspect for a long time anyway, regardless of these developments. S there already is a re-implementation of Truecrypt from the ground up for Linux and BSD by non-anonymous(?) developers: https://github.com/bwalex/tc-play
Also, cryptsetup-LUKS (recent versions only) can mount truecrypt containers under Linux.
There is also "confirmation" that the developers are simply tired of the project and don't want anyone else to work on it:
https://www.grc.com/misc/truecrypt/truecrypt.htm
Who do we believe?
It has to be an NSL. What should be the other explanation? The truecrypt accounts hacked? I don't think so.
However, it is too early for a story "The Sudden Policy Change In Truecrypt Explained". There is no proof of this speculation yet.
U.S. changed to "United States" - "use bitlocker," "use any crypto package in Linux," when setting up an OS X disk image no encryption...
The message is clear what happened.
https://t.co/x1H2T6UtEv
http://webcache.googleusercont...
The bottom line is that TrueCrypt was too good for "the man" to tolerate.
You will be spied upon.
You will be surveilled.
You will be monitored.
Refusing to let the government rape your data is going to be called "terrorism", and leave you locked up.
Sickening, isn't it? George Orwell was only wrong about the year...
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
"WARNING: Using TrueCrypt is not secure as it may contain unfixed security issues"
According to this page - someone e-mailed a dev contact and claims they called it quits due to lack of interest
https://www.grc.com/misc/truec...
(Scroll to the bottom, the green box).
The only real "confirmation" we have is the info on the TrueCrypt page. It's over (no matter what the reason is), best to move on.
Back door != Keys
The TC devs hold no keys, but could conceivably build a back door into future versions. Or perhaps there already is one, or a weakness overlooked. Its also possible that the NSA has known about the TC devs for some time, has possibly been leaning on one or more of them and this has only recently become evident to the entire team.
Have gnu, will travel.
Literally give the source code and rights to continue development to anyone and everyone.
A new project will pick it up and continue development without breaking the law. And at that point its unlikely the NSA will be able to do anything to it.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
No evidence is presented. The reference to a "canary" is suspect, as it isn't discussed what that canary was.
Some semi-random tweeter is reposted on some random blog? I don't think so.
It's possible that this is accurate, but without evidence, why bother? As I asked in the original discussion about the shuttering of TrueCrypt, who stands to benefit?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
An anonymous coward in the last thread said that a known warrant canary was seen:
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5212985&cid=47117051
Yeah, absurdly non-true today. OTOH, Hoover did prefer Mormons in his inner circle, and the FBI agents I had occasion to meet in the 60s & 70s definitely came across as uptight and straitlaced Mormon types. Fun Fact: in the 60s, FBI agents helpfully drove AMC/Rambler sedans as undercover cars and used sturdy but crappy Beseler Topcon 35 mm cameras.
Sent from the iPad I found in your car.
This is Slashdot. No one cares whether something is true or not as long as it is negative towards the government. Sad really, since it diminishes any sort of real discussion about actual concerns about the government rather than made up fantasy.
Not only is this mercurial and virtually unknown Alyssa Rowan spotted a canaryu, but so has PeeWee Herman! He just tweeted.
this is actually a link to an interesting article, not goatse. it's an editorial about how the most recent full version of true crypt (7.1a) is still as secure as it was last week, and there's no reason to stop using it. It also says they (who?) are working on an open license fork that will be released on a future date.
still doesn't answer the question on if it's like lava bit. true crypt may be just as secure as it was last week, but maybe it's also been owned by NSA from day one.
I never use cloud resources. Too many users have been severely inconvenienced if not outright burned by cloud services that have been hacked, suppressed by some government, gone out of business, or gone down for several hours. I keep all my data where I can access it, either on my PC or on a removable hard drive that I store remotely from my PC but easily reached.
I encrypt my most sensitive data. No, I do not rely on some corporation's declaration: "Trust us. We are good. We will protect you." Instead, I use an OpenPGP application that has been reviewed by outside experts and that I have installed on my PC. The data on my removable hard drive are encrypted. Some of my PC files are also encrypted. My pass-phrase, without which my private key is useless for decryption, exists only in my head and in an envelope in my safe deposit box at a bank. My private key is on my PC in a non-standard location. If somehow someone else were to access my private key, I have a much greater problem than the compromise of my sensitive data.
See my http://www.rossde.com/PGP
I can't comprehend the conspiracy theories flying around about this.
[TrueCyrpt] is a barely-maintained Open Source project (no updates in the past two years), with an outdated, messy code-base, serious build dependency problems, and lacking in full support for the newest Windows release. It likely only has a small development team - perhaps only one or two people.
The developers are absurdly secretive, and when they do come out of hiding to make a statement, they are confrontational (take, for example, their response to Fedora's queries over the clause in their license that reserves the right to sue for copyright infringement).
If this was any other project, we'd all just assume the developers had decided to call it a day. However, because of the nature of the software, everyone assumes security agencies or reptilians are involved.
Maybe the developer was a security researcher who has decided to retire to a tropical island. Or maybe there were two developers, and they have had a dispute. Maybe the primary developer took a job offer at a security firm, with a clause prohibiting him from working on external projects. There are an almost infinite range of possibilities... assuming that the cause was the devious acts of state-sponsored actors is leaping to a pretty big conclusion.
If I developed a piece of security software, and wanted to cease development, I'd make a similar statement.
"Don't use this anymore. It's not maintained, and should therefore be considered insecure".
Otherwise, if a vulnerability is discovered, everyone will scream: "Fix it now! Nobody told us to stop using it!"
''TrueCrypt is not secure,'' official SourceForge page abruptly warns
[Ars stats for Marlor: 1279 posts > registered Oct 3, 2003 > 0.01% of all posts > 0.33 posts per day]
You are so gonna get Dementia
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
Haha. Frankly, usable crypto kits need security audits.
Take
1.) small Atmel/ATMega CPU
2.) LCD display
3.) a small keyboard (26 keys suffice) suitable for said CPU
4.) three 1.2V rechargeable batteries
5.) symmetric Cipher of your choice that fits into 4K of RAM. E.g. 3DES, GOST,...
Then implement
A) ENIGMA/SIGABA-style cipher machine on said hardware using said ciphers
B) Publish pcbs and source code via strongly anon means, sign using gpg if needed.
This machine can be used via ANY crap comms channel from NSAbook to NSAdroid phones. Or POTS, CB radio, shortwave links. Machine should in later releases not be bigger than a cigarette box. Carry it everywhere.
No, I think people are fine. It's governments and their poorly organized systems that cause things like this. Suggest you read "The Lucifer Effect". It's not just about prison guards. That same mentality has infiltrated the NSA and most other government offices.
DiskCryptor seems fine, but doesn't seem like it supports mounting a virtual hard disk (correct me if I'm wrong); only actual full disk encryption.
There's nothing in TFA that hasn't been speculated in great detail already.
No explanation totally makes sense. Here's my working model of what happened (all speculation of course):
The project has been gradually disintegrating over the last few years -- developers leaving and not being replaced, remaining developers having less time to spend on the project for whatever reason, and the perceived reward for fixing increasingly difficult bugs is not enough to keep people interested. It's just not fun any more.
The to-do list has some really nasty bugs that are difficult to fix and could potentially compromise all TC containers. The remaining developers in the project have been grinding away at these bugs, but haven't made much progress for reasons outlined above. They realized that the project was going to fizzle out before they got anything fixed. A cursory look at the 7.2 code suggests that they had committed to some major rewriting of the code, and bit off more than they could chew.
At this point, what can they do? Reporting the vulnerabilities would be irresponsible since no fixes are forthcoming. Lives depend on some of the secrets their software keeps. Best to push people gently away from TC until the problems can be fixed, if ever, while keeping the details of the vulnerabilities as secret as possible, and giving people realistic expectations about the future of TC development (i.e. none).
They probably had a plan for creating a migration plan that actually made sense, but ran out of resources before finishing, and decided to go with what they had on hand. At this point they were probably down to one very part-time developer and maybe a few unreliable volunteers. ("Hey Jim, where's that page you were writing about Linux FDE? Jim? Hello? Anybody there?")
There was really no good way forward with the resources remaining, so they did the best they could.
Why didn't they find someone else to take over the project? I guess they tried, but couldn't find anyone in their immediate circle of trust who was willing and able. Perhaps they felt that expanding their circle of trust would jeopardize their anonymity.
On the other hand....
"WARNING: Using TrueCrypt is *not *secure *as ..."
I would rather get dementia than tell lies and live like it is OK with whats going on in this country.
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
If the last current build is secure why should we need continued development? The tool is out there and it works. I don't see that as a problem.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
I'm surprised there hasn't been a Kickstarter setup to re-implement TrueCrypt from the ground up.
What would be the dollar cost to hire a team of developers to do it?
The signing keys you dolt.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Ignoring the rumour-based article with zero facts:
What we really need then is a distributed, peer-to-peer, anonymised source-control system.
Publish a hash and that hash corresponds to a certain "official" branch of the code and can't be retracted. Do it right and any fork can publish their hash and maintain their own branch even if the original project goes under. Source-code verification - that's no harder than today, but you could set up code verification of, say, the most popular hash the same way you do TrueCrypt audits.
However, before that, we really need a bunch of people to be pushing out patches to TC and be shown to still be developing it, anonymous or not. I don't particularly care about TC being taken down - to me that just proves it's usefulness and effectiveness, if that's true. What I care about is, whether the project died or was taken down, we need people to develop on it - and at least start adding UEFI etc. support.
Link because why in the world do people use URL shorteners?
Or the devs were encouraged to take a paid vacation from coding... Courtesy of the NSA or Microsoft. My guess the link to www.truecrypt.org/donations/ was not often visited.
Your arrogance is your assumption that you have anything to say worth recording, let alone even listening to you. What makes your personal life so relevant?
So because my private life is utterly uninteresting, you suggest that I shouldn't care about giving up my human rights?
The right to privacy is a human right...
One might as well ask, why you should care about fair trails or torture, if you're not a criminal then why should you care? After all why should anybody want to torture a confession out of you?
This is not about being personally targeted or affected, it's about basic human rights.
Governments are made up of people. People are always the problem.
Quite naieve... if information is captured for any one purpose, nothing prevents it from being used for more nefarious purposes down the road.
Tomorrow's world could be a theocracy or meglaburo or kleptocracy or plutarchy... you never know, and the people who sieze power will abuse it. Hey, just look at Putin who came up thru the ranks of the KGB when Borris tried to make him a puppet governor.
Heck... look at our own history and the government oppression (at various points) of Indians, Blacks, Japanese, suffragettes, pot smokers, birth control advocates, civil right leaders, and people who just wanted a drink.
If the government was just dragnetting me, that would be one thing; instead, they have laid the infrastructure for an evil regime, and the damage it can do far outweighs any potential good it might bring.
The soverighty of the people has been trampled by a rouge internal force.
It is a sad truth. NSA / USA government will only drive innovation underground or out of the country.
No, I think people are fine. It's governments and their poorly organized systems that cause things like this.
That's a fascinating concept. Are governments and their poorly organized systems comprised of something other than people? Aliens from another universe perhaps?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Because nobody on Slashdot would intentionally visit a link to grc.com. If you want us to visit the land of raw sockets and falling skies, you're going to have to mask the destination.
The Judean People's Front crack suicide squad would like a word with you.
Correct, they have no keys.
However 7.2 doesn't encrypt at all. Does that not qualify?
If they got a valid legal letter saying they must release a version that can be read by law enforcement then they have complied.
...
Your arrogance is your assumption that you have anything to say worth recording, let alone even listening to you...they care about financial and military strategic advantage. You are not relevant to either.
That reasoning fails on two points.
You don't have to be truly important or truly threatening for the state to persecute you. Indeed, if we could rely on the state always being correct in whom they attack, we wouldn't need individual rights.
(||) Nehmo (||)
It appears grc has created page where the last final version of TrueCrypt and all source code could be downloaded.
My hope would be that someone will fork the project and continue development for Linux, and Windows XP/2003, at least, AND preferably work on new Version of Windows.
Bitlocker is REALLY not good enough, for most users won't have access to it -- since it is only in the ENTERPRISE version of Windows 7; in particular... Windows 7 Standard and Professional do not have the feature.
Dead wrong. They hold the release signing keys.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The former CEO of USWest was sent to prison based on secret NSA data that could not be independently confirmed - or even discussed. That this happened shortly after he refused to cooperate with illegal NSA data collection is completely coincidental.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
For those complaining that the TrueCrypt developers did not release the code under some other license such as the GPL: Their code, their rules. Given that some want to fork the code, obviously there is some expertise that was poured into the code that is not easily replicable. If they don't want to give away their expertise for free, it's their right.
Mod parent up. Grandparent AC is a moron. It's the signing keys, not some nonexistant master decrypt key.
If the thugs have the signing keys, they could have a couple of months from now themselves brought out a new "improved" (but completely compromised) 7.3 masquerading as an improved, updated, security patched TrueCrypt.
Pssst, the keys they have are the SIGNING keys, not some nonexistant master decrypt key.
lolwut? Version 7.2 cannot encrypt anymore. I would say that is "compromised" even if the TrueCrypt developers did it themselves.
24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
Bullshit, idiot. If that were the case, they just would have publically turned over development to whoever would like to take it over. They certainly wouldn't have set off bombs to destroy the source code repo and all trace of it in the archive wayback machine.
Yes the NSL gets them a/the trusted build server and web connections and allows the gov to become the 'project' with their own tame/turned staff over time.
Over time the next tame builds have the classic trapdoor/key/backdoor. The applications still looks the same, all the sites look the same, no 3rd party can get to your data just one extra entity will have a way in too. The new feature over the life of a project after a NSL is the control of the site, server, code, staff and later an extra US/UK gov key is built in over an expected update cycle.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
That is what I meant when I said they had no keys.
...that everyone seems to assume the Truecrypt developer(s) were in the U.S.
Kythe
With FIPS140-2 4.9.2, SP800-90 10.3, Limiting the block size of AES to 128 bits, limiting the rounds of AES to 10, while misdirecting people to think key size was the important thing, along with effectively blocking progress on DNS security, IP security and other security tracks, the NSA has shown itself able to limit security and put backdoors out there which persist in the wild for many years before discovery.
We should not think they couldn't slip a back door into Truecrypt without being caught. It just requires some crypto knowledge they have which we don't and they employ more cryptographers than the private sector and universities do.
The recent string of results against DLP in prime power fields is an example of knowledge they may well have known before we did. what else is there that they are leaving the public at risk by keeping it a secret?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I would rather get dementia than tell lies and live like it is OK with whats going on in this country.
If 'dementia' means what I think it means, you can actually do both.
I am not a crackpot.
My point wasn't that privacy is not important. My point is that YOU are not important...and I'm right. You're not.
Which is entirely beside the point.
You are irrelevant to The Man until you become a "problem" and all this data gathering is for instant dossiers on people who become a "problem." To nail the head that sticks up.
Privacy is a human right because without it people are unable to effect change - they remain powerless. There is nobody on the planet without a skeleton in the closet, and exposing that skeleton is what this is all really about. It's national-level Borking, to remove any kind of power from people who would oppose a police-state.
That's why.
You, sir, are a short-sighted douchebag and, through your apathy, an enemy to everyone on this planet.
Ta Ta.
--
BMO
The TC devs hold no keys
They hold signing keys. Are you aware of the purpose of those keys?
Write failed: Broken pipe
Although you have acknowledged the existence of signing keys, you have still failed to express understanding of the utility of those keys.
Write failed: Broken pipe
As well as food, and ammunition
It doesn't seem likely that even the NSA could get a court order, when there doesn't actually exist any "master key" that would benefit them. This isn't like other cases where some central authority has the power to decrypt stuff if only they are willing to hand over the master key. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think the court would order them to deliberately break the distributed code for the NSA's benefit.
Not only that, but the trolling poster also made the assumption that you're not important, which is bullshit for the simple reason that we're ALL important to the people who love and care about us. We're important to someone - I'm important to my wife for example, and soon I'll be important to my newborn. Just because I'm not a politician or celebrity and hence known to thousands/millions of people doesn't mean I'm not important. It's all about spheres of influence - some are larger than others, but they still all matter.
If the trolling poster honestly believes with such passion that you aren't important, it stands to reason they probably don't feel they are important either. If they can't find at least one person in their life who considers them important in some way... then I find that truly sad for the AC.
Trying to bring attention to this thread whether it turns out true or false.
-metric
Is there any proof that the contributors are even in the US and thus subject to a NSL? At least one of them seems to be from the Czech Republic (David Tesaík).
The corner of a round room
We need guns. Lots of guns.
Given the anonymous nature of the TrueCrypt developers, would we even believe someone who claimed to be a dev and gave us an explanation?
Not sure I would. I've read a lot of different articles and comments about this ordeal and I'm frankly not sure what to believe. I'm not sure if I'd believe someone if they said they were a dev.
I know we'd all laugh if the NSA came out publicly and said "we had nothing to do with it."
I don't understand why they never just asked Tank for a tank.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Just Google for Truecrypt Source 7.1a before the NSA whack it off Google.
would NSA have to fill out the "right to be forgotten" form?
Typically, the FBI or Secret Service send NSLs. It should be noted that such letters may be generated based on cooperation with other agencies, however.
Write failed: Broken pipe
Read the book. Bad organizations will inevitably turn good people bad, unless you are inoculated against the effect with knowledge.
Unlike with Lavabit, there's no single master key for TrueCrypt that can be gotten from the developers that'll decrypt any TC partition. The best the NSA could get is the ability to create their own signed binary package with their own modifications and have it appear as the official package on TC's site. The problem with that is that the TC code's open so anybody can build from source and compare with the official build and see that they aren't the same. And any compromise of the source (eg. weakening the cryptography) would be instantly revealed in the diffs. The whole NSL thing sounds dodgy, and doesn't quite fit. It seems more likely that, with Win7 and later moving to supporting only GPT disks, the TC developers found they can't add that support and decided to throw in the towel.
In any case, the version of TC from before this change is still available and as far as anyone can tell is still secure. I'd be leery of switching to other encryption software that's known to be less secure until someone comes up with a definitive vulnerability in 0.71.
As well as food, and ammunition
If you have ammunition, you can get food.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Weed, lots of weed.
And good beer too.
Any other intoxicant that floats your boat.
Hey, what better reason to party than the Apocalypse?
Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
Not likely. The NSA has tried and failed to break into truecrypt volumes in the past.
Which you know for a fact, because if they had succeeded, they'd definitely tell us. Right?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Don't forget to download some more RAM too, just in case.
http://downloadmoreram.com/
You're Welcome!
P.S. OB sarcasm tag ^_^
The question is why should truecrypt or anyone else hold a master encryption key to your data. The software should generate a signing key on installation, and that key should be then used for signing. It could then be sent to the provider for them to store in case the original is lost. But truecrypt would not have a master key that automatically unlocks all of their customers data if subpoenaed by the government. Your key will unlock only your data and no one elses.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
It's 2014, not 1914.
If you want to fight your government - the government that spends more money on the military then everyone else in the top 5 military spending countries combined, you don't need guns. You need stealth fighters, tanks and ICBMs.
Good luck with your "honest people defending the country against the government" fantasy.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Splitters!
(would slashdot make Brian Himself wait this long to his submit?)
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
this is actually a link to an interesting article, not goatse.
What a shame, I would actually applaud a webmaster willing to pay for an SSL certificate just to trick more people to see goatse
If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
Mod Parent up - very well said, totally insightful.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
In fact, sufficiently large non-violent protests would bring down the government -- if it can work in non-democracies like Egypt and Tunisia, it would certainly work in the USA. Guns would just provide the government with an excuse for terrorism charges.
This space intentionally left blank
Right to bear nukes!?? Yeah, that would explain Fermi's paradox.
Life is not for the lazy.
Actually, it's 2199. You just haven't unplugged yet.
A government's just a body of people. Usually, notably ungoverned.
It is sad how one bends facts so that they support what one is pre-disposed to believe. Nacchio challenged FISA and ended up not getting a big NSA contract (allegedly he was "punished", but even that is stated without any proof). He went to jail for "massive" insider trading (netting him and his cronies $3B!). However, I'm sure the NSA cooked it all up and deposited millions and millions of dollars into his and five other people's accounts without them knowing about it.
It is even more sad that your outright lies get modded up so high.
"As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air — however slight — lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
This sure sounds like the scenario that Justice Douglas was talking about.
Maybe it's about time to dig up the rifles?
I understand that if they acquired the signing keys they could sign their own package and, presuming the loss of the signing keys was not known, have people accept the new packages as legit. But can possession of the keys allow them to create a fake and apparently correctly signed version 7.1a? If so, then the reason for wanting the keys seems obvious to me, to create a fake version which they can send to targeted people/entities, either through a trojaned download site, or by playing man-in-the-middle and changing what is sent from a legitimate mirror. The target gets the fake version and it passes all the tests so uses it, and the government now has their backdoor in place.
:).
I haven't studied how packages are signed, and am too busy at the moment to go read up on it, so maybe I am just naive. (I am sure there are plenty of posters on Slashdot that will let me know if I am
That was a foreign power attacking people at home.
This would be the people rising up against their government.
Two different scenarios. The US government doesn't have to eradicate americans to win, it just needs to stay put exactly where it is.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Governments are not just made of people. They are made of people, laws, and processes. A bad process (or law) encourages people who prosper by it to leave it unchanged This means that people do the wrong thing in order to keep their jobs. A person who is only trying to do what they were hired to do may do something morally wrong because that's what they were told was correct. A really really bad set of processes in a secret organization can lead to secrecy for secrecy's sake, and that leads to what we saw here.
John
Well, they will do whatever the PAYING 1% tells them to do ;)
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Yeah, I definitely want my country to look more like theirs.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Heh, game of thrones quote coming up...
"In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. 'Do it,' says the king, 'for I am your lawful ruler.' 'Do it,' says the priest, 'for I command you in the names of the gods.' 'Do it,' says the rich man, 'and all this gold shall be yours.' So tell me- who lives and who dies?"
The US govt is just a bunch of men in suits. It's the loyalty and goodwill of those that serve under them that makes them anything more.
Where on earth did you get the idea that the 1% actually pays for government operations?
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/ar...
If you have ammunition, you can get food.
Only if THERE IS FOOD.
--
The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead. Can I help you with your debugging? *cracks knuckles*
If only there was a modern day precedent for the US military having a hard time dealing with some low tech insurgents.
This signature is false.
You mean app signing keys? If TC has been compromised by an insider, or may be in the future, that signature will mean nothing.
Have gnu, will travel.
No, I think people are fine. It's governments and their poorly organized systems that cause things like this.
That's a fascinating concept. Are governments and their poorly organized systems comprised of something other than people? Aliens from another universe perhaps?
In a word, Processes. People are just the components it's the processes and procedural rules that determine the behavior orf the system - poorly organized or not.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Okay, then who or what created the laws and processes? I don't understand how you can separate any of that from people.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
People are just the components it's the processes...
Say whaaa? Were the processes created by aliens then? I find this very intriguing.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
People are just the components it's the processes...
Say whaaa? Were the processes created by aliens then? I find this very intriguing.
Stop being a fucking pedantic idiot. You asked:
Are governments and their poorly organized systems comprised of something other than people?
I answered processes. They're also comprised of legislation, mandates, buildings and chairs. All of these things were made by people however that is not what you asked. Under such ridiculous pedantry I could answer atoms, quarks and energy which would give you an accurate answer, just not a particularly useful one based on a reasonable supposition of what is meant by 'what a government department is comprised of'.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
...that is not what you asked.
It is precisely what I asked. And you people continue to pass the blame for our problems on some nonresistant ethereal entity called a "process". It's a bunch of hogwash. The problem is people, period. They create the government. They create the process. They are the process. And you're just spouting a bunch of gibberish like some preacher yelling that it's "God's will!". Save it for the believers.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
It is precisely what I asked.
atoms, quarks and energy
It is precisely what I asked.
legislation, mandates, buildings and chairs, cars, carpet, leasing agreements, legal departments, policy review boards. Snakes and snails and puppy dogs tails
And you people continue to pass the blame for our problems on some nonresistant ethereal entity called a "process". It's a bunch of hogwash.
It's fairly obvious that you are one of "those people" who haven't held any position that was responsible for anything other than themselves. If you ever work hard enough to understand higher levels of an organization, either in the business or government world, you will understand that the reporting and functional processes are as real as the dumb look on your face when you look in the mirror. That "nonresistant ethereal entity" controls much of your life.
Now go back to flipping burgers.
The problem is people, period. They create the government. They create the process.
True, but also outside the scope of your question as they don't "comprise governments poorly organized systems".
They are the process.
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.
It doesn't make the process any less of a component, it's just "something other than people".
And you're just spouting a bunch of gibberish
When a person is in a government organization they have effectively zero lattitude to change it, they are a functional component that are either a tool that can be used or a problem that has to be solved all the way up the management chain to the executive. And even the executive has to make a government department function according to the articles of law that enacted it. Even the one person left who can change it, government minister or congresscritter, *still* has to act within the legal functional requirements of the Department. This covers the entire scope of your question.
A government department is a legal entity as much as a corporation is a legal entity as much as a person is a legal entity. If you choose to have a simpletons view of the world, that's fine. It won't change because you don't understand it.
like some preacher yelling that it's "God's will!". Save it for the believers.
Are you even vaugely serious. Have you ever read a peice of legislation longer than 10 pages in its entirety? The entire legal system is made up of words that can have you executed in some places. That's real, there is a legal process that dictates people to behave as functional components in an organization and act in a specific role.
"...a system based on corrupt practice cannot be saved merely by tinkering with it"
Look, I only answered your question because I though your sig was fairly on the mark. However even government departments form components of the "system" you are describing.
Your mindset blames the people who need a job not the people that can resolve the functional issues of government. By all respects you should get this and I fucking truley regret trying to gently answer your question in a way that didn't make you look like a complete fucking idiot.
From the moderation, it suggests that pretty much the rest of slashdot gets this but I'll correct you grammar and answer it in the closed narrow way you need it answered:
Are government's and their poorly organized systems, comprised of something other than people?
Yes.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
That certainly was a long winded piece of... baloney... How do you learn to be so helpless?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The message on TrueCrypt's new website got me thinking:
Using TrueCrypt is not secure as it may contain unfixed security issues
Let's isolate the first letter of each word:
(U)sing (T)rueCrypt (i)s (n)ot (s)ecure (a)s (i)t (m)ay (c)ontain (u)nfixed (s)ecurity (i)ssues
Result?
utinsaimcusi
Let's spread that!
uti nsa im cu si
That is latin for
"If I wish to use the NSA"
Stay away from future Truecrypt releases. This is clearly a warning from the developers.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The concern isn't compromise of TC by an insider. The concern is forced conveyance of signing keys to an intelligence agency. Are you aware of the consequences of such a scenario? I suspect you're feigning ignorance at this point in an attempt to minimize perceived risk. Why would you do that?
Write failed: Broken pipe
That certainly was a long winded piece of... baloney... How do you learn to be so helpless?
Mainly from people like yourself who are so hoplessly inferior to the rest of the normal thinking population I would be need 3/4 of my brain removed to have double your wit. Obviously you are unable to explain whatever point you have to make, even when given an opportunity to do so. I can only gather that you are pointless. So back to 4chan, b/tard/.
Now get the fuck off my lawn.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
:-) I pity you, completely unable to break the circle. A good servant you are, blaming others for your own misfortunes, but still pitiful.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
:-) I pity you, completely unable to break the circle. A good servant you are, blaming others for your own misfortunes, but still pitiful.
Pity yourself, it's an excellent summary of what you are doing now :-)
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Why haven't you replied to my last question?
Write failed: Broken pipe