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Court Allowed NSA To Spy On All But 4 Countries
mrspoonsi (2955715) writes A court permitted the NSA to collect information about governments in 193 countries and foreign institutions like the World Bank, according to a secret document the Washington Post published Monday. The certification issued by a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in 2010 shows the NSA has the authority to "intercept through U.S. companies not just the communications of its overseas targets, but any communications about its targets as well," according to the Post's report. Only four countries in the world — Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand — were exempt from the agreement, due to existing no-spying agreements that the Post highlights in this document about the group of countries, known as "Five Eyes" with the U.S.
Sorry, but I'm not going to get my panties in a bind that the NSA is spying on other countries' governments considering:
1. That's the NSA's freakin' job.
2. Anybody who thinks that the only country in the world that spies is the U.S. is either an idiot or a liar.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
"Only four countries in the world — Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand — were exempt from the agreement"
So, did the 193 sovereign countries all agree to be spied upon? Or did one American tell another American that they had every right to do so.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Potato, potato. Axis of Evil, Five Eyes.
It's a scandal that there are countries the NSA isn't allowed to spy on. What if the terrorists are hiding there?
They spy on Britain and Australia, I can confirm that.
The real question is, did they spy on Djibouti?
I suppose you're from the US, Canada, Britain, Australia, or New Zealand so you don't care. I do care, not being from one of those "five eyes" ..
Color me suprised. Not. In all fairness I want all the other countries spy agencies to release a list of countries they spy in (in particular the national intelligence services of China, Russia, France, England, Germany and Israel). I bet you it would be a pretty similiar list.....
So you have one secret organization with no oversight telling another secret organization with no oversight that it's "OKay" to break the law (Constitution). I find the lack of public outrage disturbing.
In other news, a court disallows crime and corruption. The US becomes a crime free country.
As a Briton, I'm just glad my country made the list. Finally the special relationship counts for something - God Bless America!
"Only four countries in the world — Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand — were exempt from the agreement"
Yeah.. and let's spy on them as well anyway, because fuck it.
We just say we don't.
I submitted this as a story a while back but it never got picked up:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/93f6...
Germany dropped a US carrier (Verizon) over the NSA issue.
The worst part about this whole thing is the spying is worthless. The NSA is alienating our allies, driving away customers from US businesses all so the NSA can record the phone calls of little old ladies talking about bridge.
So I noticed they didn't say the USA was one of the countries the NSA can't spy on, so I guess nothing is changing?
Be seeing you...
Is it only me or there is a lots of US gov shills around here lately? There are lost of people working for NSA and some such criminal gangs so that would not be difficult especially with current level of traffic on /. All those heroes would do it for free probably.
NSA is a fucking cancer...just get rid of it... the people should go to all extents possible to remove all espionage agencies, these entities are undermining the trust that the population and the foreign countries citizens have left in the USA. Fuck secret stuff.
+1 Insightful. Good job , great post.
The summary sounds more broad than just spying on foreign governments in foreign lands if it involves US companies and any communications "about" its "targets". That language would allow keyword interception of all communications about a particular government or about the "IMF" or talking about the "World Bank". Literally those are the types of keywords they would enter in to the program to return all the results. What it allows is actually very useful... like gauging the sentiment of a population for its government or for international institutions by analyzing the context of the communications and coming up with some Big Data analysis. People could then use that data to exploit underlying divisions or to target factions and exploit individuals.
As I have said before, I don't believe the US constitution applies outside the borders of this country for non-citizens... so it isn't the same level of constitutional crisis that we have here at home with a widespread, ongoing and wholesale violation of the fourth amendment threatening the very fabric of our society.
However, our leaders should be working towards bilateral international treaties with friendly, democratic republic and free countries around the world to not engage in or at least limit this type of spying.
Are you saying that there's at least one law that the NSA isn't too big to obey?
It is funny how a US court thinks it has the authority to allow spying on another country when the US government would probably cry if another country made it legal to spy on US citizens.
As a Canadian, the good news is that the NSA doesn't spy on us.
The bad news is that the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) spies on us and shares everything with the NSA anyway.
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
Domestic spying on local nationals was forbidden in the agreement, but intelligence gathering on each other was permitted and also intelligence sharing. The agreement was formally called UKUSA, but also known as SIGINT and Echelon. It had been going on for a long time when I read came across it in the '90's. Finally it's common knowledge and people are as apethetic as ever.
It makes a mockery of our "freedom and democracy" in these 5 countries and I weep for what we used to be and have incrementally lost for our temporary security as the frog boils. Countries so insular and xenaphobic that we don't even remember what made us great in the first place. Deep values like freedom of speech, political freedom to gather and protest to change things replaced with vapid symbols, shiney toys in what resembles a secret police state.
Exactly what the nutbag extremists wanted us to do to ourselves.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
but...but it makes the praetorians feel useful! It shores up their fragile little self esteem.
Surely you can't take that from them?.../s
... but is he your friend?
Telling me that the government should be allowed to ignore parts (or all) of the constitution when fighting a war is like letting a rabid dog lose because he might bite a bad-guy.
Serviam Libertas
Dare to Defend your Rights!
The NSA routinely just compromises foreign companies' computer systems in order to engage in espionage, industrial/corporate or otherwise.
It's the first time that living in one of the Five Eyes countries appears to have been beneficial.
It's a hollow victory.
"Is the Chief Priest an Offlian? Do dragons explode in the wood?"
Killing an enemy who is attacking or invading your country, or poses a clear and present danger to your country's security is OK, IMO.
So it is OK for Iraqi members of terrorist groups to kill US soldiers because we invaded Iraq? Just want to be sure you aren't being a hypocrite here.
Japan doesn't. (They do have a self-defense force, though.)
Japan does have a military and a rather capable one at that. They just pretend that they can't/won't attack anyone due to the constitution they put in place after WWII.
There are a few insignificant countries that don't have armed forces but every country with a substantial population has one.
So ner :P
After checking all the comments, I didn't see anyone pointing out what seemed very obvious to me when I read the summary: all the countries, USA, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, are offshoots of the old British empire, and all speak English only (well, Canada does have some francophones). It's like a club of like-minded countries, with the same base culture and language.
There's an interesting article on the New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06... which contends that moral judgements depend on what language we're speaking. Within this 5-country native English language club, the emotional strength of their own shared language totally overrides any moral qualms they might have for spying on those foreigners speaking strange languages in primitive countries.
It would be one thing if our government found evidence of something shifty going on... spied to confirm or refute that, and then took action.
They do that all the time. Some of it isn't even a secret. It's not just the NSA either. We have a huge intelligence system with many players and our foreign policy depends heavily on what it reports.
They're bugging every world leader, tapping the phones of damned near every citizen, reading our mail... this is Orwellian blanket surveillance which is a far cry from "Spying" This isn't "Spying" it's totalitarianism and it's wrong.
Here we agree though I think that most other countries would do the same if given the opportunity. Power corrupts and all that.
Comparing what the rest of the world does to what the NSA does is a joke. Yes, they spy on us, but they're not intercepting ALL of our phone calls
Only because they can not, not because they would not. I have no faith that most of the 95% of the world's population outside the US is really any different when handed such powerful tools. I would find it very surprising if other major economic powers were not heavily investing in activities similar to what the NSA does. Not saying I think that is a good or right thing, just that I think it is inevitable.
The NSA is recording the private phone calls of the citizens of Canada... Mexico, England, Germany... That's not spying, that's a very insulting invasion of privacy... and whats worse, this horrible invasion of privacy that alienates our alies has absolutely no value to the NSA at all.
Let me preface what I'm about to say by stating that the NSA has shown itself to be clumsy and irresponsible in their surveillance tactics especially towards our allies. I seriously doubt that much of their actions in cases like spying on Angela Merkel etc have any tangible value to our nation. That said:
You think that there is no one in any of those countries that wishes to do the US harm? Remember that prior to 9/11 the biggest terrorist incident on US soil was planned and executed by a US citizen. You do have a valid point to some extent but pretending that just because someone is a citizen of those counties that they are friendly to us is very naive. Ostensibly we are allies with Saudi Arabia and yet all of the hijackers on 9/11 were from that country. Just because the citizens are decent people doesn't mean the government is trustworthy and vice-versa. Nation states don't ever completely trust other nation states or their citizens and given human nature they would be foolish to do so. I don't think our intelligence services worry much about Great Britain causing problems but that doesn't mean they trust them or everyone that lives there completely either.
Furthermore sometimes those you think are your friends turn out not to be as close as you thought. The US and Canada have the largest (mostly) unguarded border in the world but I guarantee you that both countries have military plans for invasion/defense just in case. I also guarantee you that both countries have intelligence services that keep at least a casual eye out for worrisome activity.
But the NSA is spying indiscriminately on virtually anybody (unless you're covered by the Five-Eyes-No-Spy-Agreement)!
True but the only reason for that is because we are stupid enough to spy on ourselves and then hand the data over to the NSA.
you voted for this shit, you are responsible. preventing crime and terror? how come that nsa didn't see the isis army coming? or corrupt politicans, the mafia or war lords etc.? because they're busy committing crime and steal data, money and life from the masses.
that's funny, as that court doesn't have any jurisdiction over other countries....
The head prick was quoted as saying: "Collect it all." Setting aside the obvious immorality and illegality of their actions (and ignoring all the apologists and their fig leafs), just focus on the stupidity of this approach. What good is having the worlds' best spooks looking for wheat if they are buried under metric tons of chaff?
Unless, of course, the real reason was to golden parachute into cushy, six-figure per month consulting gigs to supplement their Federal retirement packages.
"You're either with us or against us."
If that's still official policy, then let the chips fall where they may when I say (yet again) -- I am against the government that claims to represent me.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
to help pacify allies who no longer have any love the USA.
I know here in Canada, the view towards America has shifted from "basically like us" to "fat, lazy war monger control freaks who treat us like disposable garbage and only care about them selves"
and as always
fuck you America(ns)
They're partner countries to the US on the Echelon program, aren't they?
When your Navy is stronger than the British Navy, it's hard to argue that your Navy is for "self-defense".
That depends on who you might be trying to defend yourself from. China and Russia are the primary threats to Japan, across 500 miles of ocean, and they're in a naval arms race with each other, and China is testing Japan.
I found a detailed US report to Congress on the huge ramp up of the Chinese navy from 2000-present.
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL3...
Let's not play dumb.
We know the NSA isn't going to spy on "our greatest ally" at all.
If there is one thing in life I have learned, its that you should *never* fuck with Israel.
Just dont. It doesnt matter who you are, where you live, or what you do. You will regret it.
Also ensure you never say anything critical of Israel, no matter what your complaint is. Its automatically anti-Semitism, which makes you "fair game" for "justice".
For example ( please note this is a hypothetical statement, *please* dont kill or torture me):
"I do not like drinking the tap water in Israel, it tastes like a swimming pool with all the chlorine" ---Anti-Semitism right there guys.
Learn from the mistakes of others.
Have I told you how I have beta?
that when we find they have been spying on Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - what are the consequences?
What has Special Ed done that's "wrong"?:
1) Theft 2) False credentials 3) Tampering with national security 4) Placing all Americans at risk 5) International flight 6) Traveling on a voided passport 7) Bartering with items/information he doesn't legally own nor has personally created 8) Terroristic threats 9) Unethical treatment toward his employer 10) Misrepresentation 11) Perjury/breach of oath 12) Dereliction of duty 13) Failure to follow orders. 14) Impersonation of known government officials/identity theft. He's also flirting with, in fact, trying to set up the two main offenses: A) Assisting foreign powers B) Aiding the enemy.
Sure, the Constitution guarantees our freedom to share more information with the public, and the right to free speech is great... but NOT when it will cause a danger to National Security. The info Snowjob likely possesses is probably EXACTLY the kind of stuff al Qaeda wants leaked out so they can learn better of how to successfully find ways to kill Americans at will. Not to mention, maybe names and locations of counter-terrorism spies that the U.S. has out in the field infiltrating the ranks of those would-be murderers.
People want to complain about the NSA and alleged "spying", but then they'll also complain about not feeling the government is doing enough to protect them from al Qaeda!
The NSA is not "hiding" anything, but they'll be truly ineffective if EVERYONE knows what they're working on.
Has NOBODY stopped for a moment and asked "why" the NSA has been doing what they're doing? Did people think the authorities use magic to uncover terrorist plots? Which would you prefer, spying on you or terrorism on you?