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Windows XP Falls Below 25% Market Share, Windows 8 Drops Slightly

An anonymous reader writes: Despite support for Windows XP finally ending three months ago, the ancient OS has only now fallen below the 25 percent market share mark. To add to the bad news for Microsoft, after only nine full months of availability, its latest operating system version, Windows 8.1, has lost share for the first time. For desktop browser share, Chrome is up, taking mostly from Internet Explorer and Firefox. For mobile browsers, Safari continues to fall while Chrome maintains strong growth.

56 of 336 comments (clear)

  1. Who has the market share? by MrLogic17 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I read the very short article, so you don't have to.

    Windows is the bulk, at 91.68%, of that Windows 7 is 51.22%

    Mac is 6.64%

    And overall, Linux is 1.68%

    1. Re:Who has the market share? by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 5, Informative

      To be fair, this data is generated via pageviews. Since there are many computers running linux out there whose sole purpose is to serve data rather than consume it, that portion may be underrepresented here.

    2. Re:Who has the market share? by Number42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Since we're talking about desktop market shares here, Linux's number isn't that far off. It doubtlessly dominates the server market alongside BSD, though.

    3. Re:Who has the market share? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the article:

      Microsoft will likely one day struggle to woo users off Windows 7, just like it is currently trying to do with the headache that is Windows XP.

      I wonder if Microsoft is learning the wrong lessons from their "good" versions. They're having a hell of a time getting people to leave them. In the future, if people hate the version they're on, they'll be much more likely to buy a new version in the hopes that it's better. Brilliant!

      That's the only think I can think of to fully explain Windows 8, and why even now they're refusing to admit that Metro apps are a steaming turd on top of an otherwise competent OS. The only idiots who like using those "apps" are the ones who would probably be better off with a tablet or smartphone instead of an actual desktop computer, for whom the actual power of a desktop is apparently wasted.

      Ok, maybe I'm just a bitter throwback who's resentful that my desktop is being marginalized. Maybe it's also because I hate the new skeuomorphic design aesthetic. What's wrong with gloss, gradients, transparency, and attractive animations, or even a bevel or link here and there so we can actually tell something is clickable rather than playing mystery-meat navigation? I swear, everything is going flat-shaded, blocky, ugly, and indistinguishable, all because that's now the new "hip" look.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Who has the market share? by vux984 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The only idiots who like using those "apps" are the ones who would probably be better off with a tablet or smartphone instead of an actual desktop computer,

      I like the netflix app, that's about it.

      Ok, maybe I'm just a bitter throwback who's resentful that my desktop is being marginalized.

      The pendulum looks to be swinging back towards sensibility from 8 to 8.1 to what we've seen of 9.

      Maybe it's also because I hate the new skeuomorphic design aesthetic.

      I don't think skeuomorphic means what you think it does.

      But regardless, for those in marketing change is king, so these things are cyclical, and we'll just endlessly circle around a good UI without ever settling down and saying "nailed it". :)

    5. Re:Who has the market share? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's a shame.

      When i left Mac for windows in 1999 it was because windows had games - It wasn't hard for anyone who wanted computer games back then to make the decision - 3 aisles worth of windows games, or a shelf of mac games. I tell the mac (apple) lovers that the single biggest mistake apple did was to listen to the engineer that crapped on computer gaming.

      If Open source would focus on Gaming - then the masses WILL flock over and get on board. Make a Distro that ports games automatically - make it stupidly easy to use, and the market share of Apple and Microsoft will tank.

      Computer Gaming put Microsoft in the masses households. If it hadn't been for gamers, PCs would of still been a basement Nerd hobby today.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    6. Re:Who has the market share? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      I don't think skeuomorphic means what you think it does.

      Gah, you're right. I meant the move away from skeumorphic interfaces and toward... does the new flat, simple, textureless aesthetic have a name other than anti-skeumorphic? If it does, I can't think of it. Nothing like a lack of an edit function to make you look silly.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    7. Re:Who has the market share? by lucm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would be curious to see how Azure is impacting Windows Server market share. They made it very easy to automatically deploy instances for those cloud services, and most people run multiple instance for load balancing.

      I don't know the exact number but from what I've read Azure is gaining about 1,000 customers per day. That's a lot of Windows Servers.

      AWS was first in that business but their console/dashboard is just too clunky, this scares a lot of people away. No wonder that Microsoft is making shitloads of money while Amazon is almost to the point where they will ask employees to sell their blood in order to finance the price war in the cloud.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    8. Re:Who has the market share? by armanox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trying to be Windows is what will be the death of Linux. Easy to use? KDE, GNOME, and Unity are all very easy for the average user to use. Local libraries near me have Linux (an Ubuntu variant IIRC) installed on all the PC's there. Users have no issue getting online, using the card catalog, watching Youtube, etc. It all works fine. We have a small collection of native games via Steam, and it's just a matter of time before a major publisher (Blizzard, would you please release your internal WoW client to the wild?) puts out a major title that runs on Linux.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    9. Re:Who has the market share? by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other words, business as usual. Windows dominates the desktop, Mac remains the desktop fashion accessory for those who care about style over function and linux on desktop remains mainly a marginal toy for the techies like us.

      This is also a pretty good reference point of where we're going with mobile I think. There linux is currently headed for that 90ish percentile of all phones (well, android, but you get the picture), with IOS sinking towards that 5-7% market share and others taking the rest.

      And hilariously enough, "others" is formed mainly by windows phone, which sits pretty much where linux is on desktop. It certainly shows how market works for operating systems on consumer devices.

    10. Re:Who has the market share? by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      I would be curious to see how Azure is impacting Windows Server market share. They made it very easy to automatically deploy instances for those cloud services, and most people run multiple instance for load balancing.

      I don't know the exact number but from what I've read Azure is gaining about 1,000 customers per day. That's a lot of Windows Servers.

      AWS was first in that business but their console/dashboard is just too clunky, this scares a lot of people away. No wonder that Microsoft is making shitloads of money while Amazon is almost to the point where they will ask employees to sell their blood in order to finance the price war in the cloud.

      Azure also supports running Linux instances. I would be interested to see the numbers for Linux instances they run.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    11. Re:Who has the market share? by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only idiots who like using those "apps" are the ones ... for whom the actual power of a desktop is apparently wasted.

      No, wait: I like Window 8. and I really, really like the interface formally known as Metro (ie, Metro.)

      I like to see the visuals of virtual blood as it splashes across the screen as all of the Metro apps scream in digital silence and die. (ie, you can ignore the errors.) And then I install a real start menu and I'm good to go! Steps:

      1: REMOVE Metro. (not disable, not hide; DIE.)

      1: See here.

      Run PowerShell as Administrator.

      Show all
      Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers

      Kill currently-installed Metro apps for your ID.
      Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Remove-AppxPackage

      Kill Metro STAGED apps (Still gven to new users.)
      Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online

      The only thing left is the Microsoft store itself, and all of the apps are online, so you can reinstall any Metro apps you miss having.

      2: REMOVE SilverLight from the WSUS update list (Ditto.)

      See here Basically run:

      reg delete HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Silverlight /f
      reg delete HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Installer\Products\D7314F9862C648A4DB8BE2A5B47BE100 /f
      reg delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\Installer\Products\D7314F9862C648A4DB8BE2A5B47BE100 /f
      reg delete HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib\{283C8576-0726-4DBC-9609-3F855162009A} /f
      reg delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths\install.exe /f
      reg delete HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\AgControl.AgControl /f
      reg delete HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\AgControl.AgControl.5.1 /f
      reg delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{89F4137D-6C26-4A84-BDB8-2E5A4BB71E00} /f
      rmdir /s /q "%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Silverlight"
      rmdir /s /q "%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Microsoft Silverlight"

      3: Add a replacement start menu.

      I like this one, but there are others that are free, and still others that are cheap.

      4: And the final touch for those who just blindly follow along: Speed up your system by:

      Starting a CMD as administrator and run:
      rmdir /s /q %SystemDrive%\

      ...becuase if you're stupid enough to run random commands without knowing what they do, this will learn you better. ;-)

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    12. Re:Who has the market share? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 3, Informative

      REMOVE Metro. (not disable, not hide; DIE.)

      While I fully support the sentiment, completely removing components like this can cause Windows Updates to fail to install. For example if your Windows desktop PC or server doesn't have a "Tablet PC" folder in the start menu, some updates won't install. So you potentially need to keep gigabytes of Microsoft's crapware sitting on your PC on the off chance that some update checks for it and won't install if it's not present.

    13. Re:Who has the market share? by lucm · · Score: 4, Informative

      No they support Linux virtual machines. It's not the same as cloud services.

      On Azure one can deploy virtual machines (Windows or Linux) but also cloud services, which are basically dedicated on-the-fly instances of Windows Server on which one's web services are deployed. Cloud services are similar to managed VPS; you can remote desktop in the instance, but the patching and maintenance is built-in in the image. You don't rent a VM, you rent resources, and the instance is mostly stateless.

      In addition to VM and cloud services, Azure also offers web sites, which are similar to traditional hosting. They support most web technologies (asp.net, php, python, node) and you can choose between shared or dedicated instances. What I found convenient is that you can use all those technologies within the same website, so if your app is mostly node but you need a specific web service that is written in PHP you can have both.

      That's different from AWS, where only VM are available.

      I have two Linux VM on my Azure account. There is a CentOS image available. It works ok but I know for a fact that they sometimes reboot without warning (I installed one and was lazy in configuring Apache, it was not registered in the startup services, and a few weeks later I noticed that Apache was not running). Never had that problem on AWS, but Azure is cheaper and easier to use. I pay about $15 per VM per month for the smallest instance.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    14. Re:Who has the market share? by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I always find it amazing how Apple users keep trying to convince everyone that 'everyone' is buying Macs 'now'. OSX only has ~5% more market share than Linux for the desktop. Certainly, if Linux on the desktop is a toy, then certainly so is OSX.

      That being said, with ~2 billion computers in the world, that means there is somewhere in the ballpark of 33.6 million Desktop Linux users. That is nothing to sneeze at. And there is somewhere in the ballpark of 132.8 million OSX users.

    15. Re:Who has the market share? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Had they limited Windows 8 to touchscreens and digitizers only, it would have made things worse. Poor adoption rate is their big problem, and further limiting your user base with hardware restrictions would only exacerbate the situation. The platform doesn't move forward in practice if people don't actually upgrade. Here's the issue: Touch screens make sense for certain form factors, but not for desktops. Search the term "gorilla arm" to see why.

      Even beyond that, the "metro" concept of full screen apps runs counter to what desktop users actually need for productivity. The desktop is not a "legacy" platform. It's a platform that's very specifically optimized for getting work done with a keyboard, mouse, and large form factor screen. That sort of work is not going away anytime soon, as the business world has demonstrated loud and clear by their absolute refusal to move to Windows 8. Naturally, the relevance of PCs is diminishing among home and casual users - people who didn't use the PC for production purposes, but mostly as a consumption, communications, and entertainment device. Smartphones and tablets are perfect for that. For actual production work, the desktop/laptop will remain king for the foreseeable future, albeit in much more of a specialized role than before.

      Windows 8 would have been a fine OS had they discarded the idea of one-UI-fits-all devices, and instead focused on the coolness of Metro as a side-channel application experience. That would have meant allowing cross-platform tablet and phone apps to run on your desktop seamlessly with native or managed desktop applications, but without trying to make the whole OS touch-focused. Instead, the marketing hype overtook common sense and usability concerns, and they began touting it as the future replacement of the desktop, which is absurd. Not surprisingly, after the actual market kicked the marketing department's ass, they're starting to move in a sensible direction with Windows 9 by focusing on the benefits of cross-platform application development, and they're slowly backing off of the ridiculous notion that their desktop OS should behave like a tablet.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    16. Re: Who has the market share? by loufoque · · Score: 5, Funny

      I feel good knowing I'm part of the 1%.

    17. Re:Who has the market share? by Cyberdyne · · Score: 2

      Since we're talking about desktop market shares here, Linux's number isn't that far off.

      I wonder about that, actually: I'm quite sure Linux users are much more likely to be running the likes of NoScript and various ad-blockers than Windows users are - and anyone who blocks whatever analytics script this survey uses will be ignored completely, skewing figures away from their platform. Maybe it's not a large proportion, but I'm sure it will be a factor there.

      The scary thing is that Vista actually gained users, and the interesting gap is how desktop versus mobile usage compares: how would IE/Chrome/Safari compare across all form factors look? (Bearing in mind that mobile users on the Chrome rendering engine are all on Linux kernels, probably dwarfing the Linux desktop users.)

    18. Re:Who has the market share? by dbIII · · Score: 4, Funny

      I would be curious to see how Azure is impacting Windows Server market share

      We'll find out next leap year when they all go down again :)

      It's a joke - I don't really expect a third major leapyear fuckup from Microsoft, twice should have been enough of a wakeup call.

    19. Re:Who has the market share? by kamapuaa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well if programming for OpenGL is more difficult and requires elite skills just to be passably decent, that's a huge knock against OpenGL.

      You're approaching this like a college student rather than like an engineer.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    20. Re:Who has the market share? by GreatDrok · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Mac remains the desktop fashion accessory for those who care about style over function"

      This is a very myopic view of the Mac. In some fields, particularly scientific fields, Macs are a better solution than Linux and have gained considerable support. It isn't because it is a fashion accessory, it is because it is a fully fledged UNIX with all the same open source tools as Linux, plus a bunch of commercial software that Linux lacks, all on hardware that is well specified, long lasting and well designed. I've had my share of PC hardware cobbled together to get Linux on my desktop but in the end a Mac is more cost effective and a better solution. Our site's Linux fanboy admin even bought a MacBook Air for his own use and now won't spec anything non-Apple for our users regardless of the OS they choose because we've had such bad experience of poorly made PCs.

      --
      "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    21. Re:Who has the market share? by jbolden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Poor adoption rate is their big problem

      How is that their big problem? They don't need high adoption. Moreover they control the supply of Windows 7 licenses they can resolve the adoption problem very easily. Today Windows 8.1 sells with downgrade rights to and Windows 7 Professional and Windows Vista Business. Tomorrow they eliminate that. If adoption was their problem the solution is trivial.

      : Touch screens make sense for certain form factors, but not for desktops. Search the term "gorilla arm" to see why.

      That's nonsense. That's not how touch works on a desktop system. On a desktop the separate monitor blows up and provides context for a tablet that provides a detailed view. Example: http://terrywhite.com/wp-conte...

      This is the setup artists have been using for years.

      The desktop is not a "legacy" platform.

      Yes it is. The massive conversion to laptops show that. The sales data for 6 years clearly show that. You may not like that it is a legacy platform, Microsoft doesn't but it is.

      . It's a platform that's very specifically optimized for getting work done with a keyboard, mouse, and large form factor screen.

      That's like saying the carriage is not a legacy transportation system because it is specifically optimized for getting places on dirt paths with a horse. A fixed large factor screen rather than plugging into available multi factor screens is legacy. Using a mouse is legacy. Mandatory keyboard is legacy.

      as the business world has demonstrated loud and clear by their absolute refusal to move to Windows 8.

      The business world is being moved from XP to Windows 7. Windows 8 doesn't serve much purpose for them yet. It wasn't designed for them. However as the office division is the biggest advocates of the new style GUIs they will be moved. Office Division has clearly indicated they want to move to touch mandatory.

      and they're slowly backing off of the ridiculous notion that their desktop OS should behave like a tablet.

      We'll see. You are assuming a lot. My guess is that desktop as they move to Windows 9, 10, 11 gets treated more and more like a foreign guest OS of the hypervisor with Metro/NewGUI being the main interface for everything. The way they handled the start button with creating an entire paradigm for programmability of bottom icons for interface pages indicates they don't want the desktop page to resume as the standard.

      So far only OneNote and Lync have really thought through touch. If Office 2015 has more that says something. If they dump the touch Lync client that says they are abandoning touch to be stuck in the shrinking desktop ghetto forever.

    22. Re:Who has the market share? by jbolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only because they have incompetent programmers that can't understand code closer to hardware than four levels of abstraction away, and don't understand how to write their own graphical extensions, which OpenGL supports, and will always kick DirectX's ass on.

      Assume that's true. So what? Writing your own graphical extensions introduces costs. Testing them across video cards and supporting that introduces huge costs. Of course going low level is faster but that's not issue.

    23. Re:Who has the market share? by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2

      Poor adoption rate is their big problem

      How is that their big problem? They don't need high adoption. Moreover they control the supply of Windows 7 licenses they can resolve the adoption problem very easily. Today Windows 8.1 sells with downgrade rights to and Windows 7 Professional and Windows Vista Business. Tomorrow they eliminate that. If adoption was their problem the solution is trivial.

      That might be too much incentive for people to finally switch to Mac or Linux. Early netbooks have shown that the power of Windows to keep users is finite:
      Linux gained significant market share in the segment, until Microsoft created the ultra-cheap (or was it even free?) Starter Edition of XP.

      But what actually seems to happen is that Windows 9 will bring the start menu back in some form. Problem solved for Microsoft where the desktop is considered.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    24. Re:Who has the market share? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      If you get the kids using a platform, then you have a load of people entering the workforce who are familiar with it. It takes a lot of effort to train them to use something else. Some of those kids are going to end up making purchasing decisions. A lot of old UNIX vendors lost out to Windows NT for small business servers because the kids coming into the company that knew Windows meant that it was cheaper to use NT than train them to use UNIX. Before that, Apple's effort getting the Apple II into classrooms generated them a lot of sales to businesses later on. Don't underestimate the effects of getting kids to like your platform...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    25. Re:Who has the market share? by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      Thanks, that's good to know. For us, the solution was as follows:

      1: System Restore to Windows 7

      Done.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    26. Re:Who has the market share? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      does the new flat, simple, textureless aesthetic have a name other than anti-skeumorphic?

      Fugly?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    27. Re:Who has the market share? by TitusC3v5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What world do you live in where only kids play video games?

      --
      And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
    28. Re:Who has the market share? by jbolden · · Score: 2

      It wouldn't shock me if Vista is gaining users based on XP migration. Lots of people may have been entitled to a free Vista upgrade with their system when they had XP, or be able to use Vista on their older systems. Lowest cost transition.

    29. Re:Who has the market share? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Informative

      Scientific users are such a tiny proportion of Mac users as to be insignificant. They are dwarfed by the number of users who do indeed view Macs as a fashion accessory. Style over function is a big deal to these people.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    30. Re:Who has the market share? by JeffAtl · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes it is. The massive conversion to laptops show that [the desktop is a legacy platform]. The sales data for 6 years clearly show that. You may not like that it is a legacy platform, Microsoft doesn't but it is.

      Sorry, but that is nonsense. Companies have increasingly moved to laptops, that is certainly true, but that doesn't mean what you think it does. Everyone in my office has a multi-monitor setup with a mouse and keyboard - powered by a laptop that is connected to docking station. This has pretty much become the typical setup.

    31. Re:Who has the market share? by dAzED1 · · Score: 2

      funny, those problems all existed prior to, and during, the skyrocketing usage of Linux. Maybe, for fark's sake, it isn't meant to be the same experience as Windows.

    32. Re:Who has the market share? by Megol · · Score: 2

      Plain? Clear? Better?

    33. Re:Who has the market share? by fisted · · Score: 2

      I'm talking data de-duplication searching tools,

      Son, are you kidding me?

      multi-monitor window managers,

      What?

      downloading / p2p tools,

      Excuse me?

      media players,

      You fail it

      media encoders

      Wrong

      etc.

      Are you even trying?


      In unrelated news, slashdot doesn't let me post this reply as-is, because it consists of too short lines, on average. Wtf. Fooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    34. Re:Who has the market share? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      I think Vista is even a bit like Windows 2000 vs XP : same OS than 7 but a bit older, more traditional user interface, will be deprecated sooner but mostly does the exact same things. If I needed Windows I'd look into running it on purpose. License stickers are even sold for cheap (though I think warez versions of Windows get all updates anyway?)

  2. Re:What it take? Stick in heart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Microsoft just needs to make an OS that delivers what end-users actually want, with a solid XP emulator so people can continue to run their mission-critical stuff that still requires it.

    8 and 8.1 were arrogant attempts at pushing on to end-users a GUI that Microsoft thought they should want, for reasons that did not benefit the end-users at all but did benefit Microsoft quite a lot (in theory, that is).

    Microsoft can win by viewing end-users as its clients (heresy, I know), getting back in touch with what they want, and delivering. Until then, expect continued weirdness.

  3. False count by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Funny

    It looks like this count is coming from someone monitoring what OSs they see in use. That being the case, it must be greatly under-counting Windows 8 and Win 8.1, since while they may be on many more computers, they are unusable.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  4. Re:What it take? Stick in heart? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

    On Steam and for gamers, XP is dead. Under 5% share between x32 and x64. With Win8 gaining market share around 27%.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  5. Try a lightweight Linux distribution by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Windows XP runs better than Windows 7 on your legacy PC, consider trying Xubuntu or Lubuntu. The apps you currently use under Windows may have Linux equivalents or may work under Wine.

    1. Re:Try a lightweight Linux distribution by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      > consider trying Xubuntu or Lubuntu

      On which none of the business critical, no longer available or extremely expensive to upgrade applications will run. I do a great deal with Linux, but old fiscal and CAD software is notorious for failing upgrades.

  6. Re:XP losing Market share is not bad news. by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A question, and please give this some thought before answering...

    If something does what its user needs it to do, then how is it outdated?

    I'm typing this on a nine-year-old Dell Latitude D410 running Windows XP. I've got a current version of Firefox, current versions of all of the plugins I use on a regular basis, and just about the only thing the laptop won't do well is full-screen flash video at high res, but that seems to be more a function of the poor implementation of flash than of the computer itself, and even with only 2GB RAM it's still faster than the four-years-newer Atom-based Ideapad S10-2 with Windows 7 that we got free with my wife's then-new computer. In some ways it's superior in that when my fancy Linux box's graphics broke I was able to use the serial port on the docking station to TTY in to the Linux box to work on it with just a null-modem cable, didn't need anything else.

    For web surfing this old thing does just about everything that I need it to do, with the licensed OS that came with it, even with the original amount of RAM and the original hard disk drive. So, why should I change this? Because Microsoft wrote shitty code full of holes and now refuses to fix those holes?

    This machine doesn't go out of the house, and at home it's behind a firewall. I've got noscript, flashblock, adblock, and https everywhere installed, so it'll be very difficult to infect it through the web browser. without a compelling reason to change it, why would I spend my hard-earned money on something that won't be used for more than I use this thing for now? It's for when I'm lounging on the couch being lazy.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  7. People hear "Windows 8" and run away by rebelwarlock · · Score: 3, Funny

    8.1 might be a huge step up, but it doesn't matter. People remember the UI disaster that was Windows 8, and figure 8.1 can't be that much different. It has such a bad reputation, they'll need to call it something else to sell it at this point. Would you even consider having a doctor give you Cancer.1, or would you hear the question and immediately get yourself a new doctor without even finding out what Cancer.1 was?

    1. Re:People hear "Windows 8" and run away by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just because they put a slightly different shade of lipstick on the pig that was 8, doesn't make it any more suitable for being a human being.

    2. Re:People hear "Windows 8" and run away by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I bought a laptop soon after 8 came out. Of course, I hated the tiles... and installed classic shell and told it to boot to the desktop. After that, I don't understand what all the complaining is about. When I finally, after over 10 years, rebuilt my desktop a couple of months ago, and XP was retired (I had XP Pro), I got 8.1 Pro... installed classic shell, and don't understand what all the complaining is about.

      Sure, 95% of the time I'm using Linux anyway, but I installed 8.1, the software I use to do work when I have to write stuff for Windows, and I don't understand what all the complaining is about.

      My experience... again, after installing classic shell, is much like 7, only smoother and a few different ways to access certain things (like control panel) that you rarely use anyway... and it's not worse, it's just different.

      So the only complaint really is that you need to install something like classic shell, but since I need to spend time customizing out of the box linux distributions, too, I fail to see the problem.

      I'm serious... I really want someone to explain to me why they think Windows 8/8.1 is so bad (once you get rid of the tiles/apps paradigm by using classic shell and going straight to desktop). I'm not a Windows fanboy, I'm writing this on Linux, and mainly use Linux out of choice... but it seems to me people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon for anything new. I get that desktop and tablet experiences are different, and companies (not just MS) should stop trying to force feed us a single UI paradigm for all platforms... it doesn't work, but like the last few versions of Ubuntu, if you don't like it, you can tweak it to where it works for you.

      Please refrain from feigning pity for "Joe User" that can't figure these things out for themselves... that's not who any of us here are, and most of us have little sympathy for Joe User otherwise.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    3. Re:People hear "Windows 8" and run away by ruir · · Score: 2

      You got it wrong, we hear Windows and run away

    4. Re:People hear "Windows 8" and run away by JMZero · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you piss around with Windows 8 for a while, you can basically simulate Windows 7. But for a long time, you'll still bump into horrible garbage - like "you wanted a weird, functionless fullscreen app to view an image file, right"? Very few things are real showstoppers, but lots of stuff is just a little worse - like they abandoned all the little refinements they've made to progressive versions over the years. Little stuff, like the behavior of the "run" dialog. It used to autocomplete well, and seemed to usually know what you wanted. Now it doesn't.

      My job has me doing development on a Windows 8 machine - and it's gotten down to very few times a day I say "oh God, really?", but it's taken a lot of tweaking and adapting to get there. And there's literally nothing I actually prefer about 8. Lots of it just evidences horrible testing/design. Like your default start screen has a tile for the "math input editor" or something. That's a very narrow niche app for a desktop, non-touchscreen computer, and it doesn't work the way anyone expects. Many times I've been asked "what the heck does this do?" - and it actually took me a while to figure out. Obviously that doesn't hurt anyone much to have a stupid, useless app - but the same lack of design pervades the whole product.

      It's just a half-baked mess, and I think it's earned it's poor reputation very well.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    5. Re:People hear "Windows 8" and run away by jareth-0205 · · Score: 2

      That's a very narrow niche app for a desktop, non-touchscreen computer,

      Systems without a touchscreen or a digitizer shouldn't exist.

      Wait, what? I feel like I must be misunderstanding, but why the hell shouldn't a non-touchscreen computer exist? How suddenly did the mouse&keyboard become such inferior tech... I think I have never seen a touchscreen laptop used practically. A tablet is one thing, the device is already in your hands. A device with a raised screen and dedicated input devices, the touchscreen is at best an option and at worst a distracting pain to interact with.

  8. Re:XP losing Market share is not bad news. by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If something does what its user needs it to do, then how is it outdated?

    The user wants the operating system to work. In order for it to do that, it has to not be vulnerable to common threats, and it has to be compatible with common technologies. The former fades quickly, the latter typically a bit more slowly but it's still an issue. If you wanted filesystems over 2GB or USB support you had to "upgrade" to NT4. If you were otherwise happy with 3.51 you know how distressing that move was. Stability went way down in NT4. Not when using it as a desktop, but definitely when using it as a server.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Re:XP losing Market share is not bad news. by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not really. 7 is supported until 2020, and from previews, it looks like 9 is going to be just like 8 in all the aspects that people hate. It's more of the "hey, phone's touch interface on on desktop can be made to work (and we want to use it to stop our phone strategy from being a trainwreck that it is)".

    I suspect that 7 is the new XP in that it's currently the most functional desktop OS in windows family, matched only by XP in usability and functionality. So in a way, it is a good news for microsoft, as it means that it's desktop domination and income from "microsoft tax" isn't going anywhere.

    It's bad news for microsoft because it continues to show that their design paradigms, with which they are sticking for 9 btw, are an abysmal failure. And while they have five more years to produce replacement for 7, it's not looking like they have the people who want to. Instead they are still focusing on leveraging desktop dominance to push for marketshare in mobile by destroying the desktop windows.

    And as long as 7, the last actual version of windows designed for desktop exists, any such attempts will likely fail just like 8 did. Because there will always be a much better alternative to whatever "mobile OS interface on desktop" version of windows microsoft will continue to try to peddle. As we have seen with 8, even forcing OEMs not to offer 7 at all in favour of the newer OS doesn't fix the problem.

  10. Re:What it take? Stick in heart? by Luckyo · · Score: 2

    That would be because of DX10 and 11 not being released for XP. It was the reason I upgraded my machine as well.

    If DX11 was available for XP, my new machine would still be running XP. As a gamer, I appreciate the fact that XP is far more lightweight and consumes much less overhead than 7.

  11. Re:XP losing Market share is not bad news. by Snotnose · · Score: 2

    This. Last year I finally bought a new laptop not because Microsoft EOL'd XP, but my hardware was dying. Went with 8.1, once I de-Metrod it I quite like it.

    Win 8.1 is a solid OS. Metro is a steaming turd.

  12. Re:What it take? Stick in heart? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

    Considering the number of titles that use DX11 are very few, that's kinda moot. And there are ways to get DX10 to run under XP. And really, if you haven't given 8 a try you should. It runs anywhere between 250-500mb lighter in memory overhead, and isn't nearly so bad as XP or 7 was in terms of game compatibility. Even older titles like Klingon Academy work under 8, where they wouldn't work for me under XP or 7.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  13. Re:What it take? Stick in heart? by jones_supa · · Score: 2

    As a gamer, I appreciate the fact that XP is far more lightweight and consumes much less overhead than 7.

    Not really. Windows 7 is essentially as lightweight as XP.

  14. Re:XP losing Market share is not bad news. by Teckla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm typing this on a nine-year-old Dell Latitude D410 running Windows XP. I've got a current version of Firefox, current versions of all of the plugins I use on a regular basis

    Your fully patched browser and plugins still make heavy use of operating system DLLs, and those DLLs are no longer getting security updates. This puts you at risk.

    Continuing to use old hardware is fine, as long as the OS is updated and secure. I have a similarly old machine that I put Linux on.

    I'm afraid your highly modded comment might make non-technical people think using XP to browse the web is still OK. It's not. Even with a fully updated and patched browser.

  15. Skeuomorphism vs. flat by dfm3 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe it's also because I hate the new skeuomorphic design aesthetic. What's wrong with gloss, gradients, transparency, and attractive animations, or even a bevel or link here and there so we can actually tell something is clickable rather than playing mystery-meat navigation? I swear, everything is going flat-shaded, blocky, ugly, and indistinguishable, all because that's now the new "hip" look.

    Skeumorphism - the use of design elements that mimic real life objects with similar functions, is actually the opposite phenomenon from the flat, light-on-pastel design trend. Though I fully agree with you - both of these UI philosophies have been severely overused.

    A bit of googling will turn up plenty of articles analyzing the history of the skeuomorphism-versus-flat debate particularly at Apple, which I would argue has been one of the biggest influences in UI design over the last few years. Basically, the loss of skeuomorphism advocates such as Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall led to the pendulum swinging completely in the other direction, and many gimmicky and dated interface elements such as notes apps that look like real paper and a game center that looks like a cheap felt billiard table have been stripped away. But - what to replace it with? Well, everybody wants to stay on top of the latest design trend, and Microsoft and others seem to be migrating to flat designs, so flat it is.

    Although you could argue over who copied who, essentially what you have is Microsoft and Apple in a race to see who can flatten their interfaces and strip out any traces of skeuomorphism the fastest. Sure, it looks trendy, but it's reached the point where we are sacrificing usability and accessibility in order to have the most "modern" design. Here's where I have a problem with the whole thing: computer interface elements have been pretty consistent over the last 20+ years or so. Everything behaved as expected and usually acted pretty consistent between operating systems. This is great for users, since they can focus on the task rather than the tools needed to accomplish them, and using the interface becomes second nature. To those who *design* computers rather than *use* them, this is a problem - you want the bling to be noticed. The old way of doing this was to show off your new hardware by making the UI flashy, bright, colorful, inviting - basically by ramping up the skeuomorphic elements to 11.

    The problem is, the novelty of this wears off fast, and these interfaces quickly become dated. Now, flat is in, and anything that even remotely resembles skeuomorphism is stripped out. I have a number of problems with the current trend:

    1) interface elements are hidden or played down, making them hard to find. Often it's hard to tell if I'm just not looking hard enough for that feature, or if it has been removed altogether.
    2) It does away with conventions that have been standard for decades. This means that every time designers go wild designing a new interface, users have to spend time and effort learning a new way to accomplish a task.
    3) It's less accessible. Razor thin text is hard for some people to see. Pastel on white and white on pastel text may look "hip" but can incredibly difficult to read. Interface elements that are marginalized can be hard to hunt down if the user doesn't know where to look.
    4) It's inconsistent. Some programs hide buttons and scroll bars, some do not. Some use vastly different elements for simple actions such as "close window" so that the user is left guessing at the function of a UI element.

    My prediction is that in a few years, "flat" will look as equally dated as skeuomorphism does now.

  16. Re:Dubious achievement by walterbyrd · · Score: 2

    People were not so "resistant to change" when MS came out with Win3, or Win95. People were lining up around the block for it.

    People were not so "resistant to change" when Apple came out with the iPhone.

    People are "resistant to change" when the new product is substantially worse then the old product.