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California Passes Law Mandating Smartphone Kill Switch

alphadogg (971356) writes "Smartphones sold in California will soon be required to have a kill switch that lets users remotely lock them and wipe them of data in the event they are lost or stolen. The demand is the result of a new law, put into effect on Monday, that applies to phones manufactured after July 1, 2015, and sold in the state. While its legal reach does not extend beyond the state's borders, the inefficiency of producing phones solely for California means the kill switch is expected to be adopted by phone makers on handsets sold across the U.S. and around the world."

233 comments

  1. The worrisome part by timrod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the article:

    Police can also use the tool, but only under the conditions of the existing section 7908 of the California Public Utilities Code. That gives police the ability to cut off phone service in certain situations and typically requires a court order, except in an emergency that poses “immediate danger of death or great bodily injury.”

    1. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      Oh no, they might killswitch a phone thought to be a bomb trigger.

      I get the worry you've got: that "they" will use this language as a fiat tool to shut down whatever "they" want. Of course if "they" are really that arbitrary, what does the language in the law matter?

    2. Re:The worrisome part by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      Can't they already cut off phone service without killing the phone itself? Seems like two different things mixed together. If the purpose of the kill switch is to erase data and render inoperable, and therefore prevent theft, there is little logical reason that not erasing a phone's data would somehow present a threat or prevent a criminal act. In fact, it may erase evidence.

    3. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's much worse than that. That is only in California. There are no laws concerning the use of this kill switch by police in the rest of the country, as none of the other states mandated this switch and wrote in protections.

    4. Re:The worrisome part by edibobb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... and the federal government will use the tool whenever they darn well please.

    5. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wouldn't make sense to use a new smartphone as a trigger device.

    6. Re:The worrisome part by phrostie · · Score: 1

      I have to wonder how this will affect projects like Cyanogen mod.

    7. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "what does the language in the law matter?"

      It doesn't.

      "that 'they' will use this language as a fiat tool to shut down whatever 'they' want."

      'They' will, 'they' always do - regardless of what law or level.

    8. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or they might killswitch a phone being used by a reporter who is recording them while they beat on the camerman next to them.

      Once they "can" wipe / brick a phone, they will do it for any petty reason they can think of.

      Neighbor's dog shitting in their yard, boom bricked the neighbor's phone(s).

      Daughter's boyfriend brings home daughter 5 minutes late - boom - boyfriend's phone bricked.

      Spouse suspected of infidelity - boom - spouse's phone bricked.

      Once it starts, it won't stop.

      Kill switching should be under the control of the phone's owner and only the phone's owner, without their cooperation (not coerced) - it should be impossible for anyone else to trick the phone for any reason whatsoever.

    9. Re:The worrisome part by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Too expensive? Because otherwise it's the perfect, self contained sensor and communication platform for a wide variety of initiation options.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    10. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      they could already cut off service to the phone so that really wasn't an issue.

      this could be used if say somebody had incriminating evidence against the police on the phone, so they send a wipe command. Or lock all phones in a protest to prevent people from offloading the data so they can crack down and make sure nothing incriminating can get out.
      sounds like it is time to start removing the function from your firmware. much like it is illegal to remove the tags off a mattress for a merchant, but the end user can do it.

    11. Re:The worrisome part by Threni · · Score: 1

      It's software (hence the stupid comments about cost - it's effectively zero; android already has it, for example). Cyanogenmod can use that aspect of the AOSP stack or not, as they see fit, as can any other rom producer, or end user (if they've a rooted phone).

    12. Re: The worrisome part by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      It's why your photos and media should sync to the cloud immediately after. Brick the phone? Fuck you, in the cloud baby! Put me in prison? Fuck you, deadman switch will release all data to the public!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    13. Re:The worrisome part by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The language in the law matters because it mandates that carriers must make it technically possible for law enforcement to use the killswitch. Otherwise, it could have been implemented in such a way that only the owner could do it (e.g. by requiring a user-set access code).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    14. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      NSA apologist and shill above. The NSA broke the law, with a watchdog, and a citizenry that knows they broke the law, and they are still continuing to break the law.

      Your statements do not match up with recent history. The cynic above you is actually provable correct.

    15. Re:The worrisome part by qbast · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you live in a world where almost every single person accused of a crime in US gets a trial by jury of their peers? What colour is sky in your world? Because here, in real world jury trial is a very rare thing - 97% prosecutions end with plea bargain ( http://www.thecrimereport.org/... ) . This is a real problem, because plea bargain has nothing to do with justice.

    16. Re:The worrisome part by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Actually, it would make perfect sense.

      Make it a dead mans switch.

      Doesn't go off until police turn off phone service, which doesn't send 'don't blow up' message.

      Make sure you're in good cell coverage first though...

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    17. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I hope noone buys into the bullshit that this is for your own personal benefit in case your some-hundred-dollar-convenience-gadget gets stolen.

      This is a brick in the ever growing suppress-the-people wall.

      What are you going to do when one day - this day is long behind us if you ask me - you really need to overthrow your government because they are just overdoing it with the corruption, the secret laws, the killing of people in foreign countries without trials? All these little bricks you thought were for your own good suddenly are stones in your way to assemble resistance.

      Do you think it's a coincidence the NSA says domestic targets are exempt from spying, yet somehow the technical possibilities are all there in place? They flip a switch, the spying extends to domestic targets and by some other secret law, you're a terrorist. Boom. Welcome to Gitmo.

      If you still think you live in a free country you need to wake the fuck up and reach for those pitch forks - metaphorically speaking, because good luck exercising your 2nd amendment against the military-industrial complex when even your run-of-the-mill shithole sheriff comes waltzing in on an armored army vehicle.

      The USA is a failed imperium and the sooner it falls, the better for rest of the world.

    18. Re: The worrisome part by qbast · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly. Does anyone know of an audio recording app for android which *immediately* (while it is still recording) uploads to remote server? Even better if it is possible to start it in unobtrusive way.

    19. Re:The worrisome part by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      They can cut off phone service in this and other countries but the theft is going to china etc that does not care or the be broken down to parts.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    20. Re:The worrisome part by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      "The blade itself incites to acts of violence"

      If you give someone a powerful tool, they will use it.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    21. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Choosing not to go to trial is very different than never being offered one.

    22. Re: The worrisome part by frikken+lazerz · · Score: 0

      Two things: Given Google's recent trend of hating open source in android, chances are this kill switch will be part of Google play, not AOSP. Will it be illegal to install CyanogenMod until they create their own kill switch? And what happens if an individual user finds a way to block the kill switch? Is that now a crime? What if cyanogen ships the kill switch but provides some code or directions to disable it on their website? And so on. I'm just worried this will have a chilling effect on open source projects, as well as making it even harder for new phone companies to enter the market (even more governmental rules and regulations). So fuck you California. It's one thing if you dumb liberals infect your own state. It's another if you have a chilling effect on the entire US (and perhaps even around the world).

    23. Re:The worrisome part by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Guess what business will be cropping up in Reno soon?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    24. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      turning the phone off is not nearly as bad as what they are doing now.

    25. Re:The worrisome part by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Agreed - if you're really intent use a throwaway FRS or MURS radio.

    26. Re:The worrisome part by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Actually, it would make perfect sense.
      Make it a dead mans switch.
      Doesn't go off until police turn off phone service

      If you just want it to go off at a random time, then you don't need a cellphone trigger at all. The whole point of using a cellphone trigger is to detonate the bomb when a specific event happens, such as the passing of the presidential motorcade. A dead man switch is not going to accomplish that.

    27. Re:The worrisome part by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Root the phone and roll your eyes.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    28. Re:The worrisome part by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Choosing not to go to trial is very different than never being offered one.

      Except that the "offer" is accept a plea bargain and go to prison for five years, or go to trial and risk going to prison for twenty years. A trial by jury should be a right of every citizen. You should not have to spend your life in prison just for asserting that right.

      Many of the people exonerated and freed by the Innocence Project had plead guilty, to avoid a harsher sentence, despite being innocent of the crime.

    29. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and the federal government will use the tool whenever they darn well please.

      And they can sue you or jail you or take your money whenever they damn well please already. And you are worried about some stupid phone?

      This feature probably has a remote log. If "the man" takes your phone, you can just sue "the man" in small claims and get compensation.

    30. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      "they".

      Those bad people out to get you. You know.

    31. Re:The worrisome part by aaron4801 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps he used the wrong terminology, but I think the idea is to set a timer, say 30 minutes. Every time it receives a call, the timer resets. The bomber can make a call at strategic times to prolong the trigger as long as necessary, but as soon as it's cut off of the cell network, it's an irreversible time bomb.

    32. Re:The worrisome part by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      A kill switch is not socially useful, except to the social dictator. The delusion of reducing theft, and other petty crimes is a perfection distraction.

      "They", the people we surrender our authority to, are abusing that authority. That is scientific fact. "They" sell that abuse as beneficial, "for the children", national security, etc, so everybody goes for it. I guess you bought into it yourself.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    33. Re:The worrisome part by TheBilgeRat · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      "We are disabling all phones filming us beating to death this black child FOR YOUR PROTECTION!"

    34. Re:The worrisome part by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 2

      There's no requirement for manufacturers to give anyone but the user the ability to lock the phone.

      Also, it is not as if the police are going to get some special remote wiping gun they can aim at you. If some corrupt officers wanted to get rid of the data, they would just seize the phone as evidence and then delete the files or "lose" the phone.

      It is not clear that there will be any method for anyone but the user to initiate a remote lockdown and even if there were, carriers are not going to do it without going through some tedious process. Carriers won't even usually locate your phone for you when you file a police report and get the authorities to ask them. Usually there is some ridiculously long process the police have to go through which is why most departments refuse.

    35. Re:The worrisome part by TheBilgeRat · · Score: 1

      And that attitude is exactly why we can safely take your opinion, and ignore it.

      You seem to think cynicism is inherently reasonable and sane, and thus end up believe absurd bullshit in the name of pragmatism. You don't recognize that this isn't informed from any sort of careful study, but instead kind of boring extrapolation of the media notable times that the rule-of-law doesn't hold up.

      You don't (mentally) live in a world where almost every single person accused of a crime in the US gets a trial. With a jury of their peers. And a chance to appeal if due process isn't followed. Your brain lives in an alternate reality, where all power is abused at all times, because that makes you smarter than everyone else. More clever, seeing the things that "those dullards" or whatever don't.

      It is true that every power that's granted to government in a liberal democracy needs watchdogs, and alert citizenry. You seem to mistake that duty with an obligation to condemn socially useful features of government out of paranoid fear. What you're actually doing is creating a lot of white noise to distract from those who are doing their proper duty, looking out for real abuses. You aren't helping.

      Wow. So, in your pretend alternate reality world, the police never EVER abuse the laws we have today?

      It takes very little effort to realize that the most useful and needed excuse to shut down cell phones by the police will be to prevent citizens from recording their behavior in the absence of police body cams.

      who are these "proper" people looking out for "real" abuses?

    36. Re:The worrisome part by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      Did you actually read the bill, because I see absolutely nothing in there to support your claim?

      The bill mandates that the user be given the ability to activate the kill switch. While the bill does not PREVENT the carriers from implementing a solution that may allow someone else (such as the carriers or the government) from activating the switch, it does not MANDATE it either. It only mandates that the user be able to activate it and leaves it up to the manufacturers and carriers how it will be effected.

      Can you please provide a direct quotation from the bill that supports your claim, " it mandates that carriers must make it technically possible for law enforcement to use the killswitch," because I see no evidence to support what you are writing.

    37. Re:The worrisome part by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      They can cut off phone service in this and other countries but the theft is going to china etc that does not care or the be broken down to parts.

      The chinese have iphone parts. They assemble the parts into iphones and sell them to the US. the iphones are then stolen from the US and returned to china. They are broken back into parts and it starts all over again!

      What an intricate system! If it's not evidence of intelligent design, i don't know what is.

    38. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, your attitude is why they keep getting away with this shit. You are part of the problem, a bit part of the problem. Useful idiots have been the biggest tool to degrade our democracies. If you are not distrustful yet, then you either have not been paying enough attention or you are too stupid to connect the rather obvious dots. Please educate yourself.

    39. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      I knew it.

      "A well publicized bad thing happened, therefor all government is evil." Magical thinking at its best.

    40. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck are you blathering about now? Yes "they", he established a group of hypothetical people that are given a powerful tool, then collectively referred to them as 'they" what fucking language construct would you suggest Einstein?

      You are a like a parody for Christsakes, you come off like my neighbour with Down Syndrome. he saws the right words and almost understands most concepts, but usually just catches the high points, the actual deeper meaning escapes him. He at least I can respect, he is working hard and is doing something great when you look at what he has to work with.

    41. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Wow. So, in your pretend alternate reality world, the police never EVER abuse the laws we have today?

      No one said that, you one dimensional moron. I'm tired of being polite about this line of thinking because it's so damned simplistic, that you should know better. The inverse of "All power will be abused at all times" is not "No power will be abused ever"

      Did you choose to make that mistake? Why?

    42. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, see, you have no idea who "they" are. You still haven't identified anyone other than nebulous outsiders with your worst interests in mind.

      You don't even know who you're afraid of.

    43. Re:The worrisome part by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      SQUIRREL!

      Nice distraction from the actual point. Yes, you are correct, but it's not relevant to what he was saying.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    44. Re: The worrisome part by itsme1234 · · Score: 1

      I did some tests a while ago (it was around Occupy XXX) and ustream did just that, if you set it up to stream+save (I don't know exactly the option but anyway there aren't many possible) nothing would stop it. Take out battery, no problem, the video (whatever was on transmitted already) would appear in your online account after a short timeout.

    45. Re:The worrisome part by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      No, I assumed that the line the OP quoted from the article was accurate. If the article's claim that "Police can also use the tool" isn't actually true, that's good.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    46. Re: The worrisome part by sabri · · Score: 1

      So fuck you California. It's one thing if you dumb liberals infect your own state. It's another if you have a chilling effect on the entire US (and perhaps even around the world).

      Nobody forces cellphone vendors to manufacture phones for the California market. They are free to sell their phones elsewhere. Only the future will tell whether or not vendors will comply with the state law or just choose to sell their phones elsewhere.

      One example of this would be California's CARB compliance crap. When I bought a generator a few years ago (are you ready for an earthquake?), I found out that it isn't that simple to just go on Amazon and get one. Noooo, you need one that is specifically made for the California market because some idiot in the air board decided to create additional rules, just for CA.

      Secretly I hope that the next Iphone won't have the killswitch and won't be sold in California. Let's see how long the treehuggers are still in control of this State after that.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    47. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why kill it when you can tap it? Activating the kill switch just alerts the person who was using the phone. Listening in on their conversation lets you know who they're talking to and gives you a lot of additional information. If you use the kill switch on a truly nefarious individual, they're more likely than not to steal a phone from someone else and continue with their plot and now you have less control over the situation.

      The only circumstances I can see them wanting to use something like this is to try and stop an explosive connected to a phone from being set off.

    48. Re:The worrisome part by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      What? It's exactly on point. 97% of people charged can't afford the risk and cost of actually going to trail.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    49. Re:The worrisome part by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      The purpose of the kill switch is to ensure Law Enforcement has an unimpeded path to absolutely control comms at the device level if needed. The only thing that keeps them in check on this is political capital. This is a VERY BAD THING.

      --
      Good-bye
    50. Re: The worrisome part by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      My two stroke mower is now worth more then a thousand dollars. Seriously, I've had offers from landscapers.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    51. Re:The worrisome part by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      as soon as it's cut off of the cell network, it's an irreversible time bomb.

      Which means it is effectively neutralized, since it is now unlikely to detonate when the motorcade/convoy/patrol is in range. If you just want an "irreversible time bomb" then you don't need a cellphone. You can just use a $1 uC, or even a melting ice cube to trigger the bomb.
       

    52. Re: The worrisome part by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I guess if you stick it in your pocket Bambuser becomes audio-only. ;)

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    53. Re:The worrisome part by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 2

      The bill itself mandates only that the user be able to deactivate the device. It does not specify how it should be implemented technologically nor does it specify whether carriers and manufacturers should allow anyone else to deactivate the device but the user. It also mandates that the user be able to disable the deactivation function.

    54. Re:The worrisome part by TheBilgeRat · · Score: 1

      I was more interested in your accusations of white noise defeating teh true champions of teh true freedombs, and who these knights of purity might be holding back the inevitable tide of stupidity and reductionism. As a few have pointed out, giving a clause to allow law enforcement to shut off phones is going to lead to it being abused. Will it happen EVERY SINGLE TIME?!!!!111 Of course not. It will, however, happen too often - and especially at times when it would be most useful to have said phone working.

      But please, educate us simpletons on the complexities and nuance surrounding the need for the state to legitimately shut off citizens telephones. I'm sure your responses will be enlightening.

    55. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck. that. shit.

      RIM has already a very decent system in place. There is no need for a kill switch. Self-destruct is more than sufficient.

    56. Re: The worrisome part by Solandri · · Score: 1

      I heard the NSA has one, though I dunno if they're still operating the server.

    57. Re:The worrisome part by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      In other news, all the MRAPs are being recalled for installation of an undisclosed new feature.

    58. Re:The worrisome part by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      It's nice to know the article was wrong, then.

      It also mandates that the user be able to disable the deactivation function.

      Well now, that part is unfortunate! I ought to be allowed to disable the function out of paranoia (and then be hoisted by my own petard when the phone gets stolen and I can't deactivate it).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    59. Re:The worrisome part by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

      it should also be a jury of peers. Not a jury of idiots which is what you normally get.

    60. Re:The worrisome part by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Oh no, they might killswitch a phone thought to be a bomb trigger.

      Pretty sure bombers typically don't advertise the phone number of the trigger device. I'm more worried about the case where Siri gains sentience and decides to kill all humans. Then I might be in "“immediate danger of death or great bodily injury" from a cell phone.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    61. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no, they might killswitch a phone thought to be a bomb trigger.

      Hmm, so, set your bomb to trigger when the phone is bricked?

    62. Re: The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking about creating an app called "COPout" that accesses the camera. The idea being that if you run across something heinous, you can open the app and start recording and stream the buffer online to the cloud. Though the idea of a deadman switch is brilliant! If you don't log into the site hosting COPout footage in X-amount of days, it gets published to the front page with a download link for everyone to grab a copy. If it turns out the video wasn't what you thought it was, log in to either the app or site and flag as private. Content would automatically be deleted from the site after 90 days (not enough storage).

      Not going to do it though. I don't have the balls to be crucified by the government.

    63. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually the NSA did not break the law, they actually followed the mandates (blindingly so, sure). it was the Office of the President (then GW now BO) that knowingly stretched the definitions and powers granted to their office... hoping people will just put up with it and as "i kan reed" is a perfect example... people didn't rise up against the infringements of their rights and out and out constitutional illegalities of the interpretations by the Office of the President. At least GW tried to hide it. BO does it in plain sight and keeps polishing his peace prize.

    64. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are you people still voting for the two big parties while they turn your nation into a police state. We're a weapons confiscation way from "re-education" camps and a nationalized media.

    65. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Again, no one said that either. I can't even imagine what fictional me said to provoke such anger.

    66. Re:The worrisome part by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      There's no requirement for manufacturers to give anyone but the user the ability to lock the phone.

      There's no requirement that they don't.
      Hence the problem.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    67. Re:The worrisome part by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      By that line of reasoning, there is no requirement in library funding bonds that the money not be spent adding hardcore pornography to the children's reading room, so we shouldn't fund libraries until we can deal with this imaginary potential problem.

      If carriers want to give someone other than the user the ability to brick the phone, they already can, regardless of whether or not this bill passes. Laws should be simple and made to deal with a specific problem (e.g. cell phone robberies), not to deal with every possible contingency that someone can imagine.

    68. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said I was aiming for a moving target? I just don't want it going off when I am still within range. A dead man's switch solves two problems.

      1) If the cops shutdown the cell towers, the bomb will still go off.
      2) If it is taking longer than expected to get out of range, I can reset the timer. I cannot remotely reset a melting ice cube.

      Yes, if the cops shutdown the cell towers and it takes longer than expected to leave, I might be screwed. But I already decided ahead of time that the bomb going off is the higher priority than me getting out alive (but not so high that I must sacrifice myself by remaining with the bomb, to absolutely ensure that the bomb goes off).

      But for the sake of argument, lets say it is a stupid idea. Doesn't matter. You can't argue away stupidity. You can try, but all that will do is leave you blue in the face, while the idiot you were arguing against goes and does the stupid thing anyway, despite all the reason you claimed he would not.

    69. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A well publicized bad thing happened, therefor all government is evil." Magical thinking at its best.

      Where did I say that all government is evil? I didn't. I have no problems with government handling infrastructure, utilities, setting guidelines for food safety (and ensuring that such guidelines are followed), and many more things. All I said is that the wording of this power is irrelevant, because the people it is supposed to be granting new powers to, do not care. They will do what they will do, regardless of what the law says they can do.

      Now unless this law was granting powers to everyone in government, from the State Archivist to the.. I don't know, State Zoologist sounds good for a "Z" job.. then the only one doing any "magical thinking" is you.

    70. Re:The worrisome part by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      And you're engaged in an intellectual fabrication.

      I don't believe it to be purposeful, but you're definitely conflating organizations, events, legal legitimacy, and a host of other things in a way that I can't take seriously. I'm sorry.

      But you clearly seem to think that saying something about the NSA's activities provides a provable logical extrapolation to this law, in a way that makes far too many leaps to be anything but nuttery. This does fit with the magical thinking I described. Forgive me for putting words in your mouth, but it's the same logic.

    71. Re:The worrisome part by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      "They" is anyone who has the power to trigger the shutoff.

      If that is the FBI, Homeland Security, Police, or even the Fire Department. Or Black Hat hackers, if it comes down to it.

      Once it is in the hands of someone to use it to increase their power and control over others to achieve their goals, they will figure out a reason to use it.

      Just as a sword incites someone to use it like a sword.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    72. Re: The worrisome part by santiago · · Score: 1

      Secretly I hope that the next Iphone won't have the killswitch and won't be sold in California. Let's see how long the treehuggers are still in control of this State after that.

      You're aware that iPhones have already had Activation Lock since the release of iOS 7 a year ago, before this was mandated by anyone, right?

    73. Re:The worrisome part by qbast · · Score: 1

      Trial by jury of idiots is natural consequence of adversarial system - both prosecution and defence want jurors easy to manipulate, so they make sure that any smart ones are removed.

    74. Re: The worrisome part by crtreece · · Score: 1
      Another vote for bambuser.

      You can (appear) to close the app, while it will continue to record, even if you lock the phone.

      --
      file: .signature not found
    75. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also a point of concern. If the phone's stolen, what's to stop the thief from deactivating the kill-switch?

    76. Re:The worrisome part by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Anyone with any experience in IED's will tell you that you don't just disconnect/disable the trigger device. With smartphones it's even worse as you don't know whether a communication channel is being used (regular cell phones only have 1 connection which is already under "state" control, a smartphone may have 2 or 3 ways of communicating, at least 1 of which is relatively unlicensed).

      There is no reason beyond theft prevention that requires a kill switch. And that is already available, implemented by many companies and up to the consumer to use. Some companies outside the US even have blacklists of stolen devices.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    77. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      It takes very little effort to realize that the most useful and needed excuse to shut down cell phones by the police will be to prevent citizens from recording their behavior in the absence of police body cams.

      Indeed, and yet I'm dozens of posts into this discussion before you were the first person I saw even notice. :-(

      This could in theory be used to prevent something like a phone triggering a bomb, though if there is a genuine threat of something like that happening, I would think that restricting or turning off transmission over the network was a much more reliable method than assuming that someone willing to blow up a bomb was also obliging enough not to mod their phone to ignore the kill switch.

      Meanwhile, it has now been demonstrated beyond any doubt that video recording of police officers at work reduces both complaints of excessive force against officers and instances of violence toward officers, both of which are surely good things. It has also been demonstrated on numerous occasions that officers who did cross the line may then attempt to destroy evidence such as photographs or recordings on electronic devices held by passers by. Obviously if all it takes is accessing some centralised police system with insufficient safeguards and oversight to remotely destroy that evidence, as opposed to potentially physically confronting someone who is just an innocent third party and making their situation worse, there is less deterrent to the minority of officers who do abuse their position.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    78. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more important issue here is that if they can killswitch your phone, you don't truly control your phone and the software on it. No one should be using phones that they don't truly control. Phones need free software and open hardware.

    79. Re:The worrisome part by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      NSA apologist and shill above.

      No, it makes him a normal person, not a jaded uber-cynic.

    80. Re:The worrisome part by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      it should also be a jury of peers. Not a jury of idiots which is what you normally get.

      Hey now, all the "smart people" on Slashdot love to talk about the best ways to get out of jury duty and how only idiots have to do jury service, so this is probably what we should come to expect.

    81. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course, if youre able to take video then they have to beat you too

    82. Re:The worrisome part by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      It has been shown time and time again lately that local police are pretty much evil, too, so yeah--provably.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    83. Re:The worrisome part by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Don't you just love how every one of these laws always finishes with the words "...or at police discretion?"

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    84. Re:The worrisome part by ai4px · · Score: 1

      So why not program the phone to ping a web site (like the police dept) and if it can't get a ping back, set off the explosion? Failsafe!

    85. Re:The worrisome part by ai4px · · Score: 1

      A dead man switch will prevent the device from being recovered and used as evidence. Better to go off at an unexpected time than get me caught.

    86. Re:The worrisome part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      both prosecution and defence want jurors easy to manipulate, so they make sure that any smart ones are removed

      Smart people are likely to have spent some time studying the US legal system, which will inevitably cause them to figure out the US legal system is riddled with legal ethics problems. Further, they will quickly realize this is an issue that the legal profession chooses not to acknowledge and is strangely silent on ...

      Smart people are also likely to be aware of what it means to have a 9th Amendment that retains unspecified rights to the people. In particular, they are likely to understand that "by the people" does not mean the same thing as "by the people with the permission and oversight of the legal profession".

      Smart people are also likely to be able to figure out that one of the most important rights that can be asserted under the 9th Amendment is the right to ethical practice of law, where even the appearance of conflict of interest must be avoided. This invalidates many aspects of the current US legal system, and is binding on everybody that swears an oath to uphold the Bill of Rights, including ALL legal professionals ...

      All together, this is not a combination the legal profession wants to see in a jury. In many respects, the public is like a sleeping giant, oblivious to the enormous (and crippling) problems in legal ethics we have in US law, and the last thing the legal profession wants to do is anything that might potentially "awaken the sleeping giant and fill him (or her) with a terrible resolve".

  2. Worldwide reach by countach · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An interesting case of how one US state could change worldwide products.

    1. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Californians (left and right) have always believed that the world revolves around them.

    2. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am wondering if this will go to court myself? A State should not have to the power to force a separate product. The Feds can overrule this because it does come under the Commerce Clause. I don't think it will since phone manufacturers are already implementing something but the State should NOT have the capability of shutting off my phone.

    3. Re:Worldwide reach by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      They were going to start putting in "killswitches" anyway - too much worldwide governmental pressure not to. Methinks that line in the summary is the result of wishful, "look-how-important-I-feel" thinking.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    4. Re:Worldwide reach by eedwardsjr · · Score: 1

      That would be New York, sir.

    5. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well the State, the Manufacturers, possibly your Service Provider, undoubtedly police and probably every other bored teenager.

    6. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need to apply the antitrust laws to California: it's time to break it up.

      I remember a quote from a French author who wrote something like "I like Germany. I like it so much I wish there were two of them".

      There ought to be at least two baby Californias. Maybe three or four.

    7. Re:Worldwide reach by hoggoth · · Score: 1
      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    8. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Given that the UN and the largest financial markets are in New York, it does hold significant weight as a meeting place. On the other hand, what is unique to California? The prevalence of almond production and the odd belief that technology development requires a centralized physical place. So clearly New York is full of liars while California is full of nuts.

    9. Re:Worldwide reach by i.r.id10t · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Has happened quite a bit in the past... even now, some firearms have "California models" vs. "everywhere else". Example would be the GSG and/or SIG 1911 clones in 22lr that have threaded barrels for "everywhere else" and the thread protector is either silver soldered in place or a different barrel is used for the California model.

      A less inflammatory example would be the Porsche 930 from '84 to '89. The California emissions laws wouldn't allow them to be imported into the US at all (greymarket cars from Canada aside, and now the old age exemption). Porsche solved this by offering the factory Turbo Look option, priced about half way between the normal 911 model and the 930 model. To make them, they took a 930, removed the rear windshield wiper, the turbo script under the whale tail, and the turbo engine, putting in the 3.2l normal engine. These were known as "M491" cars after the option package code, and just over 1000 were produced in the 5 year model span (420 for the '83 model year, dwindling down to 15 or so in '89 and almost all were coupes - very few cabriolets were made, and only a few targa models), almost all of which were for US delivery. Buyers got that great wide back end sexy body look, the better brakes, suspension, etc. of the 930, but the regular 3.2l engine that could pass California's emissions laws.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    10. Re:Worldwide reach by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Informative

      A State should not have to the power to force a separate product.

      That ship has already sailed. The California Air Resources Board (CARB), for example, has had stricter auto emissions standards for years, resulting in cars being sold in either "49-state" and "California emissions" versions, or a "50-state" version that meets CARB standards whether it's sold there or not.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    11. Re:Worldwide reach by dmgxmichael · · Score: 1

      Consider that if California was an independent nation it would rank as the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world, then think on that comment some more. It's not too surprising.

    12. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      California is the 8th largest economy in the world by GDP, behind France and ahead of Italy. You can't ignore it as a market.

    13. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am wondering if this will go to court myself? A State should not have to the power to force a separate product. The Feds can overrule this because it does come under the Commerce Clause. I don't think it will since phone manufacturers are already implementing something but the State should NOT have the capability of shutting off my phone.

      The state and federal government have concurrent jurisdiction in the field of commerce, federal rules are supreme, so a state can't set a lower minimum and it mean anything, but it can set higher standards unless the federal government says otherwise, which they can do, or they can choose not to do.

      In any case, you'll find that the State doesn't consider your last statement to have merit.

    14. Re:Worldwide reach by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The center of the financial world is now in London. Sorry, but Barron Rothschild moved.

      The UN is well on it's way to making itself irrelevant. The general assembly already is.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    15. Re:Worldwide reach by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      That's great, because 'Western Greater Germany' is the new name for France. He should be happy soon.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:Worldwide reach by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Yet I have not heard of a pandemic of hacker-led mass bricking of iPhones.

      There are some psychopathic blackhats who just destroy for the sake of destroying. Fortunately these are few - evidenced by the near total lack of PC malware that destroys the computer.

      Then there are hacktivists who would do something like bricking a million phones at once the first month after this bill's required new phones are on the market to prove the point that government mandates come with unintended consequences.

      It will be interesting to see if they do that. It would be very unfortunate for the owners of those phones. They would argue that society will be better off for it in the long run. Not satyagraha enough for me, but I can see the thought process.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    17. Re:Worldwide reach by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      A State should not have to the power to force a separate product.

      Why not?
      They're not forcing a separate product, only product + California Requirements.
      Don't want to manufacture the California Requirements? Don't sell in California.

      The Feds can overrule this because it does come under the Commerce Clause.

      That's not how the commerce clause works.
      In this situation, the commerce clause can only come into play if State and Federal law conflict.
      You would need to point to a Federal law that preempts or invalidates the California law.

      but the State should NOT have the capability of shutting off my phone.

      Most of us agree on this. Our legislators have been convinced otherwise.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    18. Re:Worldwide reach by Huge_UID · · Score: 1
      Yes. For details see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_emission_standards#Motor_vehicles

      Due to its preexisting standards and particularly severe motor vehicle air pollution problems in the Los Angeles metropolitan area, the U.S. state of California has special dispensation from the federal government to promulgate its own automobile emissions standards. Other states may choose to follow either the national standard or the stricter California standards. States adopting the California standards include Arizona (2012 model year),[1] Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico (2011 model year), New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington, as well as the District of Columbia.[2][3] Such states are frequently referred to as "CARB states" in automotive discussions because the regulations are defined by the California Air Resources Board. The EPA has adopted the California emissions standards as a national standard by the 2016 model year[4] and is collaborating with California regulators on stricter national emissions standards for model years 2017â"2025.[5]

    19. Re:Worldwide reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were going to put in opt-in switches, while California is forcing those over to opt-out. That's going to be a pretty big difference in the world scene as criminals will now know most phones are worthless.

    20. Re:Worldwide reach by laird · · Score: 1

      In the 'old days' hacking was about learning and proving coolness (e.g. by breaking into something and proving it, but doing no damage because that's not cool). These days much of it is about money. Either way, there's not much reason to go brick a bunch of phones randomly - you'd just piss off a lot of people, leading to arrests when the figure out who did it.

  3. Bets on first use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How many want to take up a bet when the next 'troublesome' protest gets targeted with the kill switch... in the name of public safety, of course....

    1. Re:Bets on first use by PackMan97 · · Score: 1

      Exactly! Or maybe someone took some photos or videos that a government doesn't want to get out. Simply kill the phone and you are done with that problem.

      The bad scenarios are far more dangerous than not having a kill switch.

      Besides, weren't there apps that do this that folks could purchase of their own free will"?

    2. Re:Bets on first use by Jeremi · · Score: 2

      Besides, weren't there apps that do this that folks could purchase of their own free will?

      There are, but the feature doesn't work as a theft deterrent unless almost everybody has it. If only a few people have it, thieves will steal phones anyway, because the likelihood is they can resell most of the phones they steal. If/when we get to the point where almost all phones auto-brick after they are stolen, cell-phone thieves will lose their profit incentive and move on to something else.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    3. Re:Bets on first use by qbast · · Score: 2

      Yes, but the problem with these apps is that they give control only to owner of the phone, not to police.

    4. Re:Bets on first use by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      Um, it is not a "simple" matter.

      1) There is no mandate that the phones have a way for anyone but the user to kill them, so law enforcement and the carriers may not even have the ability to initiate a kill switch on many or even all models of phones with the feature equipped.

      2) If the police know you have incriminating video and they are corrupt, it is much simpler for them to simply seize your phone as evidence and then delete the files or "lose" the device. Figuring out exactly who had the "incriminating photos" and getting the proper paperwork done (which carriers may very well demand a court order for) to wipe the phone would not be an effective way to eliminate evidence. You make it sound like the police will be issued remote phone-wiping guns.

      3) Smart device robbery may account for something like 25-50% of violent crimes in many cities such as San Francisco and New York. You present no reasonable cost-benefit analysis that these so far entirely fictional scenarios you came up with "are far more dangerous" than the violent crimes associated with smart phone robbery.

    5. Re:Bets on first use by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      How many want to take up a bet when the next 'troublesome' protest gets targeted with the kill switch... in the name of public safety, of course....

      No no no... it'll be an "accident". They just wanted to kill the phone of this one guy who was really a threat, and accidentally bricked and wiped the phones of all the protestors totally without meaning to.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    6. Re:Bets on first use by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      There are, but the feature doesn't work as a theft deterrent unless almost everybody has it.

      Every iPhone in use has this feature. iPhones are still the most-stolen phones.

      Are you saying Android phones all have to have the feature to protect iPhone users? Because my understanding is that iPhone thieves turn off the phones immediately and keep them in RF-shielded bags/rooms until they're reprogrammed for the illicit market.

      And I still don't get how you validate this feature if you're going to rely on it for security.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    7. Re:Bets on first use by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Several possibilities.

      Cop sees somebody taking video, but can't tell who or go over there. There isn't a brick gun he or she can pull out and shoot the phone, so the cop can't brick the phone.

      Cop sees somebody taking video, and can go over to that person. Cop comes up with excuse to temporarily arrest person taking video, accidentally breaks or loses the phone (or deletes files) in process.

      Cop finds out somebody took video, manages to get name after some investigation. By this time, person with video has presumably downloaded video from phone and put it out in public, so no point in bricking phone.

      Really, the only way to brick a phone is to know which phone it is, and the LEOs will almost never have that information in a situation where they can't use more physical means. I like to examine new and interesting ideas to see how they could be used to oppress the people, and I'm really not seeing this as a threat. The authorities can already make a phone unusable as a phone by talking to the carrier. They can already deal with video etc. on the phone with physical means, such as breakage, "accidental" loss, or just deleting the files and not caring.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Or just don't sell phones in California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm sure they can live without for a while. Why should everybody suffer is some state in some backwater country makes a bad decision?

    1. Re:Or just don't sell phones in California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love it if the industry boycotted California with a simple: "you banned our products as they are, you live with it. Make your own cell phones."
      Hey, I can dream, can't I?

    2. Re:Or just don't sell phones in California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If CA were an independent nation it would have the 7th largest economy by GDP. California's "economic vote" on regulations can't be ignored as it counts for more than most nations do.

  5. Legislating Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...The technological solution shall be
    reversible, so that if an authorized user obtains possession of the
    smartphone after the essential features of the smartphone have
    been rendered inoperable, the operation of those essential features
    can be restored by an authorized user...."

    So, in essence this law protects nothing (data is not wiped), and I'm sure competent hackers will immediately find ways around this stupid "Kill Switch" idea. Let the market provide the solution! This does not need to be codified into law.

    1. Re:Legislating Technology by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I'm sure competent hackers will immediately find ways around this stupid "Kill Switch" idea.

      I would assume that reversal requires physical access to the phone, and also the manual entry of the correct password into the device itself, the password being one that is created by the user (initially randomized at manufacture, the default code for it being on a small slip of paper that comes with the phone when you buy it brand new). Since each password attempt would have to be manually entered, there is no viable way to expedite cracking such a phone, and I would imagine that most people even trying to do so would probably quickly abandon the attempt. And if the point of the law is to simply make theft of cell phones unprofitable, I think it would probably succeed.

    2. Re:Legislating Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how is that any different from using a decent password on the lock screen today? Why do you need a "remote lock", when the phone is fully capable of locking itself after XX seconds of inactivity? NOTE that there is no remote _wipe_ legislated here, TFS and TFA both got that wrong.

      The only thing new here (that the law is forcing into existence) is that The Police can now do it remotely -- and I'm sure they are the ones who get to pick the unlock code too.

    3. Re:Legislating Technology by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1

      I predict that as soon as a phone with the (undoubtedly standard) kill switch is released, someone will write a software program to reverse the locking. For good measure, that software program will probably also users to kill a phone remotely by spoofing the signal to make the kill switch program believe it's coming from the telecom company or law enforcement.

      Unless there's a hardware component (say a physical key you need to insert into a slot on the side of the phone) the security WILL be broken quickly because the financial and bragging rights rewards for doing so are huge. If there IS a hardware component, the thief will likely turn mugger and demand the person's keys -- I suspect many people will probably put the key on their key ring.

    4. Re:Legislating Technology by mark-t · · Score: 1

      No different at all, as long as you can't bypass the lock screen by changing the sim card.

    5. Re:Legislating Technology by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Unless there's a hardware component (say a physical key you need to insert into a slot on the side of the phone) ....

      What about having to physically enter a passcode on the device's keypad? The locking itself can be in software, but that locking software can easily be hardcoded onto the silicon, and not something you can bypass with any software technique.

    6. Re:Legislating Technology by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Ask Sony about how well hardcoding physical hardware works out for them..... (PS3 encryption keys)

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re:Legislating Technology by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That's only applicable if the key is the same for each and every device. The key itself can still be set uniquely for each device, and put into an eeprom circuit that is built into the device's hardware, and not changeable simply by swapping out any IC's that would not also amount to basically swapping out the entire innards of the phone. In the end, the only useful component of such a bricked phone would be its casing... making theft unprofitable, and when it's common enough, hopefully discouraging such theft from occurring in the first place.

    8. Re:Legislating Technology by ahaweb · · Score: 1

      That doesn't lock out USB connections.

  6. Unintended consequences ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I predict it will be less than a year before law enforcement decides to shut down all cell phones of people they disagree with (like protesters).

    I predict it will be less than a year before hackers figure out how to brick or otherwise damage cell phones.

    Because, as usual, when you try to pass a legal solution to a technical problem, you will introduce new technical problems, and if law enforcement can abuse something they will.

    This will be misused, it's only a matter of time. And, since manufacturers will decide to make the phone the same for everywhere, we're all fucked because of a decision in California. And I don't trust that the carriers won't brick a phone you own if your bill is late, instead of just cancelling your service they'll kill your phone.

    Everyone around the world will now have a phone which has a loop-hole allowing law enforcement, government, and private industry to brick it. Add to that the likely back doors for law enforcement to look into your phone, and suddenly your phone is controlled by entities which aren't you.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Unintended consequences ... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I predict it will be less than a year before law enforcement decides to shut down all cell phones of people they disagree with (like protesters).

      What prevents them from doing this now? They effectively control the exchanges.

    2. Re:Unintended consequences ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      One is at a network level, the other is at a device level.

      When LEOs can brick your phone, it's more than disrupting your service, it's destroying your property.

      Police can also use the tool, but only under the conditions of the existing section 7908 of the California Public Utilities Code. That gives police the ability to cut off phone service in certain situations and typically requires a court order, except in an emergency that poses "immediate danger of death or great bodily injury."

      And they've demonstrated that they will expand the scope of that, or misuse it as they see fit. Because they always expand the scope of these things down the road for something else since they already have the mechanism.

      They will have also built in a mechanism whereby malicious actors will be able to do this just for the fun on it.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Unintended consequences ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you really think this is just because of a decision in California then I have a few bridges I would be happy to sell you.

    4. Re:Unintended consequences ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unintended?

    5. Re:Unintended consequences ... by Jahava · · Score: 1

      I predict it will be less than a year before law enforcement decides to shut down all cell phones of people they disagree with (like protesters).

      They'd have to go through all of the trouble of identifying the individuals and gaining cooperation of the carriers/vendors. When they're close enough to identify individuals by name, why go to the trouble of locking phones? They'll just do what they do now and arrest them.

      I predict it will be less than a year before hackers figure out how to brick or otherwise damage cell phones.

      This depends on how the lock is implemented. iOS and Android already have some remote lock/wipe features that haven't been heavily hit by hackers. Mass phone wipes haven't been a thing yet. I'm sure people will try and I'm sure some will succeed (likely in controlled circumstances), but identity establishment and crypto are both well-known in the industry.

      Because, as usual, when you try to pass a legal solution to a technical problem, you will introduce new technical problems, and if law enforcement can abuse something they will.

      This is hardly a technical problem, as it's been solved and implemented in various forms for years (e.g., iOS7). This is a policy problem, and a legal solution is quite appropriate. For example, carriers have blocked Samsung from including an activation lock. This kind of thing is what the legal solution solves by taking the decision out of the vendors' (who care about products and reputation) and carriers' (who care about profits) hands. The decision seems pretty reasonable, as existing legislation/policy has resulted in measurable drop in device theft for those devices.

      This will be misused, it's only a matter of time. And, since manufacturers will decide to make the phone the same for everywhere, we're all fucked because of a decision in California. And I don't trust that the carriers won't brick a phone you own if your bill is late, instead of just cancelling your service they'll kill your phone.

      Existing lock options are done through the phone vendors, not the carriers. If the carriers did this to your personally-owned device, it is property damage. And if the government wanted to deny an individual cell service, they can do it now (and have been able to for all of cellular history) with a warrant through the carrier. The government/carrier has always been able to shut off your service.

    6. Re:Unintended consequences ... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Exchanges/telcos are regulated and controlled at the State and Federal level, levels well above local police. Your local police officer can get a part-time magistrate in traffic court to approve bricking your cellphone. To do that with an exchange would take a State or Federal circuit court judge (something well above the reach of your average police chief).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re:Unintended consequences ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We" applies if you mean Americans. Phone makers consider that market separate from the rest.

    8. Re:Unintended consequences ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      And you believe they can't already destroy your property...why?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. How long will it be before script kiddies by mark_reh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    are remotely bricking phones for fun and profit?

    1. Re:How long will it be before script kiddies by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many iPhones and Android devices are currently being remotely wiped? I ask because both have the feature to do so currently.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:How long will it be before script kiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From an above post: http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/tech/mobile/hackers-iphones/

    3. Re:How long will it be before script kiddies by pisces22 · · Score: 1

      I wondered the same thing. Don't know how to do it on an iPhone but for Android: https://www.google.com/android/devicemanager

    4. Re:How long will it be before script kiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no point. It's like the virus efforts in the 70s and 80s that would try to destroy the infected systems. Once done, they don't propagate. In today's world they're no longer done for LOLs, but crime-ware. You device becomes part of a hire by the hour botnet, or is encrypted and the own held to ransom. Once the majority of phones/tablets have this as standard the criminals will add it to the latter. Pay up or lose it all. Synology customers are going through it right now.

    5. Re:How long will it be before script kiddies by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      That's kind of my point - it already exists. And it exists on the most gullible user, cash-rich platform ever - iOS. Find My iPhone would allow an attacker to send a message to the user informing him or her of a complete wipe of their data unless they paid up. These are folks who would have no idea if they've backed up their phone or not, and even if they had half of them done' know how to reinstall what they lost. Tens of millions of phones with owners who would drop $100 in a heartbeat not to lose their friends texts or pictures of their grandkids. And yet it's not happening.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  8. Lawmakers are generally idiots. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it's becoming worse. What can we do about it?

  9. Meaning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That I want to buy a phone that can't legally be purchased in California.

    1. Re:Meaning... by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      Why not, they make California legal and California illegal versions of firearms. Most of the firearms I've bought in the last decade are illegal to buy in cali.

  10. Simplier solution at the carrier level by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't the better solution to get the carriers to refer to a "stolen phone" database before providing new service? As in you would tell your service provider that your phone had been stolen, the would upload whatever the unique identifier is for the phone to the database, and henceforth they (and everyone else) would refuse to connect that phone to their network. No need for remote wipes etc. unless the user wanted to go down that root and the goal of making stolen phones basically useless will have been accomplished in a way that would be very difficult to hack around.

    1. Re:Simplier solution at the carrier level by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Station_Equipment_Identity#Blacklists_of_stolen_devices

    2. Re:Simplier solution at the carrier level by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      and everyone else

      That's the hard bit. If you block the phone from all networks in your home country the theives will just export it. Theives have also found ways to change the identity of at least some models of phone.

      Good luck getting the whole world to block your stolen phones.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    3. Re:Simplier solution at the carrier level by laird · · Score: 1

      All the law does is increase the cost/effort of reselling stolen phones. It's impossible, as with any security measure, to prevent anything 100% of the time. But if you make it more complex/expensive, it discourages the attack because criminals will move on to easier/more rewarding targets.

  11. Tornadoes by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Funny

    They both do. How else do you account for all the rotational energy which spawns tornadoes in the middle of the country?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Tornadoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I always assumed it was because Texas sucks.

  12. No different than emission standards by swb · · Score: 2

    California is basically a nation-state unto itself. It is so large and relatively wealthy that when it sets standards, it often sets them for the entire nation and occasionally the world.

    IIRC, auto emissions controls were one of those things California began to mandate. Not selling cars in California wasn't an option, so automakers began basically making cars that met their standards and sold them everywhere because the economies of scale made it make sense to do so.

    1. Re:No different than emission standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. One of my friends moved out from California a few years ago. His car actually has different emissions hardware than my car. My uncle just moved out to California, and in order to register his car in the state, he had to get additional hardware installed.

    2. Re:No different than emission standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      swb is likely from California, they tell each other how important they are until they all believe it.

    3. Re:No different than emission standards by Solandri · · Score: 2

      California has a GDP just shy of $2 trillion. If it were a country, that would put it at #10 in the world, just behind the UK, Russia, Brazil, and Italy; just ahead of India, Canada; bigger than Spain, Austrailia; nearly twice as big as South Korea, Mexico; and four times as big as Sweden, Norway.

      That said, I seriously doubt this will have repercussions outside of California other than the capability being there if other legal jurisdictions should choose to require it. This isn't like a new formulation for gasoline, or an entirely new engine emissions system which needs to be designed from scratch. It's basically software, and it'd be trivial write to a PROM upon delivery or sale to permanently enable/disable the functionality. In this case, the cost of "manufacturing" two different devices for different markets is trivial.

  13. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple phones have already had this for years.

    Blackberry phones have already had this for years.

    Android phones have already had this for years.

    Windows phones have already had this for years.

    What exactly is this law going to change, force FirefoxOS or Sailfish phones to add a remote killswitch? It sure sounds like people are getting riled up about something that has already been done to 99% of the smartphones on the market because now it's "the rules" that they continue to due what they're already doing.

    1. Re:Who cares? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      The Android app does not lock the phone, it erases it. The phone itself would still be usable once you replace the sim card. The point of the law is to make the theft of protected cell phones unprofitable by requiring that the functionality be embedded into the device itself, and make the phone unusable for anything beyond making an emergency call, or using the keypad to enter in the appropriate unlock code.

  14. So sad ... by johnlcallaway · · Score: 1

    ... that we have to pay for features based on the lowest common denominator. Another law from the idiots in California that impact everyone, regardless of where they live.

    Wish that San Francisco earthquake had been just a little bit stronger .. and sliced San Diego, LA and San Francisco into the ocean. Ok .. maybe not San Francisco, it's a pretty cool town. The other two are cesspools and I try to avoid them whenever I have to make trips that way.

    --
    I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    1. Re:So sad ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think San Diego would be spared.

      Instead start with LA and head north all the way up to the USA border with your destruction.

    2. Re:So sad ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then who would pay for all the welfare of the other states?

    3. Re:So sad ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yay! Let's kill millions of people because I hate myself and I'm a loser! (idiot)

    4. Re:So sad ... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Liberals voting for Liberals, hating what Liberals do but not ever changing how they vote, because they view the alternative is being worse. The reality is, both (R) and (D) are equally bad, especially when they get a Monopoly of power, like California. Hell, they voted in the loon Jerry Brown ... Again.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  15. Already (mostly) exists by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    You do realize that both Android and iOS have this feature baked in, right? You can remotely wipe your phone, and with a court order the police can coerce you to do it as well (if you worry about such things). All that's required is the device lock, which is fairly trivial given the propensity for modders to brick phones accidentally.

     

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Already (mostly) exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remote wiping an Android device requires a Google account. I don't have one of those, but I do have an Android phone. The court order you mention isn't magic; it can't put a Google account on my phone.

      Captcha: compel

  16. California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are California and non-Californian versions of a lot of products, despite the inefficiency, so let's just hope that world-wide (non-Californian) demand for non-kill-switch phones is high enough.

  17. Why hasn't it happened already? by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    iPhones have had the ability to be remote wiped for a long time. Yet I have not heard of a pandemic of hacker-led mass bricking of iPhones. Dirty hipsters and their iPhones have been at the center of a lot of protests yet we haven't heard of mass iPhone shutdowns by the police in response to demonstrations.

    I think government/law enforcement already have the powers they physically need to fuck with cell phones. Between Stingray devices and the ability to present national security letters to carriers or service providers, if they wanted to they could get IMEIs blacklisted or get someone like Apple to brick a specific phone.

    I think this just finally cuts off the ability of the cell carriers to encourage and profit from theft by activating stolen phones. Maybe if we treated AT&T stores like pawn shops and told them it was loss of their licenses and jail time for trafficking in stolen property if they activated stolen phones the kill switches wouldn't be necessary, but because corporate profits and lobbying we don't.

    1. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pawn shops can sell stolen goods with no consequences as long as they didn't "know" the good were stolen (good luck proving knowledge of theft, they will stay willfully ignorant). I know this from personal experience. Stolen goods sold to pawn shop, police involved, and still had to BUY my own property back from the pawn show despite having serial numbers of the goods written down and police agreement that the goods in the pawn shop were stolen. Some other items were already sold by the pawn shop.

    2. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by StikyPad · · Score: 0

      iPhones have had the ability to be remote wiped for a long time. Yet I have not heard of a pandemic of hacker-led mass bricking of iPhones.

      http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/...

      Now you have.

    3. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You appear to be confused. Bricking and wiping are not the same thing.

    4. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      iPhones have had the ability to be remote wiped for a long time. Yet I have not heard of a pandemic of hacker-led mass bricking of iPhones.

      http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/...

      Now you have.

      According to the Ministry the criminals used two “well-established schemes.” One of them was hacking users’ email accounts and elaborate phishing pages to glean victims’ Apple ID credentials. The second scheme – which may or may not related to the Oleg Pliss scam – allegedly bound devices to prearranged accounts and used “various internet resources to create ads.” Those ads promised access to Apple ID accounts that contained “a large amount of media content.” As soon as someone accepted the offer and linked their device to the account, attackers hijacked the devices.

      Phishing to obtain email credentials and then presenting yourself as the legitimate user, or offering access to free media to suck in greedy people. Social engineering - not the same thing as hacking the bricking/remote wipe protocol.

    5. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      Maybe if we treated AT&T stores like pawn shops

      Best point. Why are the phone companies accepting phones that are already linked to other service? Well, I suppose all it needs is changing a SIM in GSM phones, but CDMA phones are stable, and it would be so easy to check the IMEI being registered on a system. Especially iPhones because people tend to keep in touch with Apple.

    6. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      iPhones have had the ability to be remote wiped for a long time. Yet I have not heard of a pandemic of hacker-led mass bricking of iPhones. Dirty hipsters and their iPhones have been at the center of a lot of protests yet we haven't heard of mass iPhone shutdowns by the police in response to demonstrations.

      I think government/law enforcement already have the powers they physically need to fuck with cell phones. Between Stingray devices and the ability to present national security letters to carriers or service providers, if they wanted to they could get IMEIs blacklisted or get someone like Apple to brick a specific phone.

      It is much more useful to have the phone active and record all conversations. Why would you cut off your "bug?" Also, hacking a phone to brick it is pretty boring. The person is inconvenienced so much that they waste an hour getting a new phone. Also also, anyone with any common sense in a protest is going to use a burner phone, which is much harder to back track to the buyer.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    7. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      The difference is before they could shut off the tower. Thats fine, thats like the FBI shutting off power in Die Hard, expected. This is control over the physical device itself. To an I.T. person this is absolutely abhorrent. Its like saying all comps in a corp network need a government kill switch to protect from botnets.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      iPhones have had the ability to be remote wiped for a long time. Yet I have not heard of a pandemic of hacker-led mass bricking of iPhones. Dirty hipsters and their iPhones have been at the center of a lot of protests yet we haven't heard of mass iPhone shutdowns by the police in response to demonstrations.

      I believe Apple implemented their wipe The Right Way and only the phone's owner can initiate it. There's no way for the police or government to shut down iPhones without knowing the users' iCloud credentials. There have been spurious cases of hackers locking phones by getting those credentials.

      I think this just finally cuts off the ability of the cell carriers to encourage and profit from theft by activating stolen phones.

      Too many people try to project their personal viewpoint onto the carriers as "evidence" of malfeasance. Your phone got stolen and you have to buy a replacement. You have to spend more money, therefore the carrier must be making more money.

      It's totally different from the carrier's perspective. Person A bought a phone. Person B somehow gets person A's phone (stolen or bought, does not matter). Person A buys a new phone from them, but person B does not buy a phone from them. The net result to them is that they have two customers, and have sold two phones. It's a zero-sum game - theft does not result in the carrier making extra sales. It may lead to them selling more high-end phones (i.e. Person B could not afford a current iPhone but steals one; person A buys another current iPhone). But smartphones depreciate so quickly I suspect they make far more money from people replacing their phones for newer models, than from upsells due to theft. i.e. If person B would've bought the old iPhone model anyway, and person A would've bought the new iPhone model anyway, then the carrier hasn't made any extra money from the theft.

      The carriers have resisted tracking and disabling stolen phones because they are not a law enforcement organization. If Bob and his wife get into an argument about who owns the phone, the carriers don't want to get involved. Why risk getting sued by Bob's wife because they bricked her phone when Bob called them and told them it was stolen? They want to sell the phone, and be done with it.* Anything that happens to the phone after it's sold is between the buyer(s), their insurer, and law enforcement. (*Not that I particularly agree with this stance since the carriers were simultaneously trying to claim rights to keep your phone locked.)

    9. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm concerned your foresight here is limited.

      1. There was/is malware (hit harder in Australia) locking up people's phones, but this was isolated as it's one-by-one. There isn't an existing seperate thing where police could go "we don't want people warned about xyz raid on, shut down everything in these cell towers" or "we don't want video of what is happening in xyz (see ferguson and the press being shut down), lock all phones touching these towers."

      2. There are other ways to discourage theft of iphones (they've dropped a lot already), such as account-holder wiping/locking, besides handing over everyone's proverbial balls in a dish for safe keeping.

      I mean, really.

    10. Re:Why hasn't it happened already? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Social engineering - not the same thing as hacking the bricking/remote wipe protocol.

      Your original post didn't restrict itself to protocol attacks, even tangentially. There are no "extra points" for using one method over another.

      At any rate, the law permits the user to opt-out of the technological solution, so that's the protection, not the fact that the protocol is secure (which is unknowable/unprovable). If someone is uncomfortable with it, they can disable it. Although disabling a disabling feature might be a double negative.

  18. lol when those killswitches be gettin hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just lol. All I'm sayin

  19. Reality catches up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neo: "You can't scare me with this Gestapo crap. I know my rights. I want my phone call."
    Agent Smith: "Tell me, Mr. Anderson... what good is a phone call... if you're unable to speak [on your bricked phone]?"

  20. Sheep getting ready for the butcher by marcroelofs · · Score: 1

    Every population gets the government it deserves.

    1. Re:Sheep getting ready for the butcher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So German Jews deserved the Nazis? Really?

  21. St. Louis by xdor · · Score: 0

    Police can draw the curtain before arrests and shooting begin: effectively turn off everyone's camera and twitter feed.

    Now, no one will know...

  22. Kill Switch for the CA Cell Phone Market by Ronin+Developer · · Score: 2

    So, they are mandating that cell phone manufacturers implement a kill switch to be able to sell mobile phones in CA? Is the cell phone market in CA big enough for the manufacturers to really care? Or, will they tell to CA to screw off and simply not sell in CA and the Nevada cell phone business and black market phone market will boom?

    This will be interesting to see how it plays out.

    1. Re:Kill Switch for the CA Cell Phone Market by jmelamed · · Score: 1

      California has the 8th largest economy in the world, just behind Italy and in front of Russia. Russia is currently in the news because the sanctions being used against that country are creating real problems for Europe.

      So yeah, cell phone vendors care quite a bit about the Golden State market. If the past is any guide, this kill switch will be for all phones sold in the US and soon the world.

    2. Re:Kill Switch for the CA Cell Phone Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if Moonbat Brown and the rest of the Marxist fools keep doing the things they're doing it won't be. This is in that class of stupid crap that should cost them dearly.

    3. Re:Kill Switch for the CA Cell Phone Market by laird · · Score: 1

      CA is big enough that manufacturers will do what it takes to sell there. If they manufacture cars for CA, with separate *hardware*, then they can easily make phones for CA, where it's a trivial software configuration difference.

  23. Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

    The thief will have to steal more phones in order to get one that has the feature disabled.
    The thief will unfairly target older phone model owners.
    The thief will have limited time to make a call on a stolen phone, so he'll need to steal another one to make another call. "Just in time theft."
    Tracking of stolen phones will be disabled, so stolen phones will be harder to locate.

    1. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 2

      The probability of thefts increasing due to this feature is incredibly low. Since anti-theft features were introduced to cars in the early 1990's, the rate of car thefts has decreased.

      Cell phone robberies are usually crimes of opportunity. Robbers rely on the victim's inattention and the fact that most phones can be easily wiped and resold. Rather than keep banging their head against the wall by stealing useless phone after useless phone, robbers will probably try some other way to get easy money.

      The rise in cell phone robberies in major cities is alarming. People rarely carry much cash and they rarely put their wallets out where it can be easily grabbed. This bill has a real chance of reducing one of the most common violent crimes in cities like New York and San Francisco.

    2. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Comparison to car theft is not a good one. Anti-theft devices in cars actually thwarted the theft itself, not so with phone-lock.

    3. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      Phone locks are likely to do the exact same thing once they become ubiquitous. People will stop robbing smart-phone users because the devices are likely to have locks which disable the phone, just like newer cars are likely to have devices which disable the engine.

      That is "thwarting the theft itself."

    4. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 0

      Phone lock does not make it any harder to actually steal a phone, its intention is to make it less lucrative. Auto theft made the act of stealing the car more difficult. Very different.

      Anyhow, some of my 'unintended consequences' were mentioned in jest, so no big deal either way.

    5. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      That is a non sequitur.

    6. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Very "sequitur", from my viewpoint. If the premise is that the effort to steal has not changed, but the return on a theft has been lowered, then there are a couple of potential reactions. 1) steal more to get the same return, 2) steal the same number and settle for lower return, 3) steal less as the return is not worth the effort.

      Those options play out differently if the theft itself is made significantly more difficult assuming the return has not changed. Option 1 becomes very problematic, for instance.

    7. Re:Unintended Consequences by zlives · · Score: 1

      wonder how much the recyclers will pay for a bricked vs non bricked phone.... i am guessing the same

    8. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 2

      Car alarms could have induced people to steal more unalarmed cars or to commit robberies instead of thefts, but we did not see that. Rather, the rate of car thefts decreased and there was no corresponding rise in robberies.

      There is no evidence that bricking phones will increase robberies. More likely, they will decrease, as current robberies rely on the easy reselling and reactivation of phones. The bricking software will significantly decrease the value of the phone and make it difficult to resell to the market that the robbers usually target, which is simple consumer turnaround.

      Whereas a robber may have been able to easily get $400-500 on the street for a stolen phone, a bricked phone will be difficult to move and those inclined to buy them will likely not pay very much. It lowers the incentive for someone to risk serious prison time.

    9. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 0

      There is no evidence that bricking phones will increase robberies. .

      There is no evidence on any effect of bricking phones, just a theory. So, proposing a possible unintended consequence that postulates an increase is as viable as simply assuming a decrease. Associating it with a poor example doesn't validate either of our assumptions. I understand your confidence in the logic that leads to a reduction in theft and thus willingness to strongly hold the assumption, it makes sense, but it still remains to be seen what really happens and to what extent.

    10. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      wonder how much the recyclers will pay for a bricked vs non bricked phone.... i am guessing the same

      That is a good question. For parts, the same, for re-use it depends on the effectiveness of the bricking.

    11. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      1. A theory is simply a statement about the natural world (or in this case, in social science, the human world) that is corroborate and falsifiable. The shape of the earth is a theory. Gravity is a theory.

      2. Claiming that there is no evidence to support this theory is an argument from personal incredulity logical fallacy. For instance, in Australia, since introducing phone blacklists, the reports of stolen phones has decreased substantially as it has in other places that have similar programs, so there is empirical evidence that making a stolen phone more difficult to use can have a substantial correlation with reduced cell phone thefts.

      So there is both a priori and a posteriori evidence that bricking cell phones is a statistically significant deterrent to robberies in other countries, and unlike blacklists, actually bricking the phones make it more difficult to simply ship the phones overseas. It greatly increases the amount of technical expertise and labor involved in reselling a stolen phone.

    12. Re:Unintended Consequences by guruevi · · Score: 1

      All crime has decreased since the '90s. Car thefts still occur regardless of anti-theft features. Some thieves will even present as 'licensed' tow truck operators, removing an illegally parked car.

      The reason car thefts are prevalent is not for the car, it's for the car parts. The same is happening for these devices. Regardless of kill switch, the display still works, the buttons still work, the battery still works. Take the thing apart and sell it for parts in your local mall 'iPhone repair shoppe'

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    13. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      1. Not understanding the intent in how I used 'theory', despite the incorrectness, speaks to your communication skills.

      2. You should have cited your evidence sooner, rather than the misapplied car theft example.

    14. Re:Unintended Consequences by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "The thief will unfairly target older phone model owners."
      what the? dude, the thief is being unfair when he decided to steal a phone. By nature it's unfair. I highly doubt a phone thief will be an economist trying to equally balance the loss across society.

      Setting aside all the incorrect assumptions you've stuffed into there, at worse case it would only be a few years, then phone swill be practically useless to steal.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:Unintended Consequences by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The premise is to makes stolen phone useless; which would nearly stop phone theft.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    16. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Don't take it too seriously. I should have said "possible". I was made somewhat in jest.

    17. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Making the phone useless is what I meant by lowering the return on theft. So your are saying the same thing as "3) Steal less as the return is not worth the effort."

    18. Re:Unintended Consequences by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      1. Car thefts have not decreased slower than the property crime rate, which supports my point that car alarms did not trigger an increase in car parts.

      2. Selling cellular phone parts is not particularly easy for your average strong-arm robber. The most valuable part of the phone is usually the mainboard, and that will likely be disabled by the bricking feature with only the most technically savvy thieves able to override it (possibly by modding it physically), which may not be worth the effort.

      Furthermore, most theives lack the technical expertise to properly disassemble a cell phone and sell the parts, and trying to sell bricked phones is going to arose suspicion and leave a paper trail that will lead to the robber or the middleman.

      As it stands now, a robber can turn a stolen cell phone into hundreds of dollars cash without too many questions asked and with little to no technical expertise. Bricking the phone takes away that ability. An S4 screen, for instance, is only worth about $100 new and it takes technical expertise to remove and must be sold online whereas an S4 or iphone itself has a street value of several hundred dollars and can be easily and anonymously hard-reset and sold by the criminal himself for the full cash value.

    19. Re:Unintended Consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know, that the thieves are selling the phones to second hand shops and phone repair shops?
      So no problemo in getting the screen out.

      And real car thieves sell the cars to repair shops for parts?

  24. Just for irony's sake... by matbury · · Score: 1

    I think all these phones should come with a copy of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four and a copy of the US constitution... for irony's sake. They should also be made suscpetible to packet injection so that the authorities can alter the information that people receive through them. Down the memory hole!

    1. Re:Just for irony's sake... by braindrainbahrain · · Score: 1

      Not a bad idea, but there is no guarantee Orwell's books will stay on your phone. The US Constitution may fare no better.

    2. Re:Just for irony's sake... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You can get a copy of the US Constitution on your phone easily. There's at least one free app for the iPhone that I downloaded. (Yes, I do keep various reference information on my iPhone, including the US Constitution, a table of integrals, and the CIA Fact Book. Did you ever have that feeling that you were about to go out of cell territory and wouldn't have a table of integrals? I hate having to integrate by parts.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  25. California, the Gateway Drug of States by handy_vandal · · Score: 2

    ... the inefficiency of producing phones solely for California means the kill switch is expected to be adopted by phone makers on handsets sold across the U.S. and around the world.

    First they tempt you with California legislation.

    Next thing you know, you're hooked on NAFTA, ACTA, and God knows what other Profit-Seeking Acronyms (PSA's).

    I suppose we should feel lucky that Amazon is not using United Nations Black Drones to deliver tracking devices (such as your new phone) to your door ... or wherever they know you are ....

    --
    -kgj
  26. Can we opt out? by troll+-1 · · Score: 1

    How free are we if the state can take control of our electronic devices and we have no option to opt out? What does freedom mean if the state can tell manufactures what features phones must have? Can I build my own phone that doesn't have this feature? Can I sell it to you? Will they put me in jail if I do? Will they put _you_ in jail for being in possession of a non-government phone? When things like this happen in countries like China everyone jumps on the bandwagon and says how great America because we are free but when it happens in America for some reason it gets justified.

    1. Re:Can we opt out? by jratcliffe · · Score: 1

      No, you can't opt out, at least for a phone you're going to sell. By the same token, you can't opt out of FCC regs limiting the frequencies and power levels of your phone, nor can you opt out of regs on the emissions of your car.

    2. Re:Can we opt out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try applying your logic to any of millions of other products.

      Can you build your own (original style) Lawn Darts? Yep. Can you sell them? No!!!

      Can you build your own car that lacks air bags/side-mirrors/seat-belts? maybe. Can you sell it? No. Can you use it on government roads? Maybe.

    3. Re:Can we opt out? by laird · · Score: 1

      The law doesn't give the state the ability to do a remote wipe, it gives the *owner* that ability. See the difference?

    4. Re:Can we opt out? by duranaki · · Score: 1

      The end-user can opt-out. It's written into the law (suggested configuration and opt-out during initial device setup). Manufacturers cannot. I found the definition of "Sold in California" to be pretty broad, it includes buying a phone online with a shipping destination in California. Good luck enforcing that one. The law seemed fairly reasonable as written. It's stupid to a point, considering Android and iOS are both doing this. It's a lot like California trying to look tough by demanding what's already being done, which is to say the bill's authors showing off and adding some bullet points to their resumes for next election.

  27. A script that will be made by somebody.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    while(true){
    for every $phone in $world:
    {
            kill($phone)
          Console.Write("lol");
      }
    }

  28. Encryption encryption encryption by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    This is fine so long as the key to do so is held only by the owner of the phone. Ex: It can't be some kind of message like "WIPE PHONE NOW" it needs to be "WIPE " or something like that.

  29. way around this? by afaiktoit · · Score: 1

    what if they just pull the battery or put the phone in a faraday cage till they're shipped off to china/wherever so they cant be bricked?

  30. Crackers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd love to see crackers to find out how the kill switch works and mass disable smartphones. This would be great fun.

  31. Dangerous and irresponsible by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    The technological solution shall be reversible, so that if an authorized user obtains possession of the smartphone after the essential features of the smartphone have been rendered inoperable, the operation of those essential features can be restored by an authorized user

    ...

    An authorized user of a smartphone may affirmatively elect to disable or opt-out of enabling the technological solution at any
    time.

    Apparently in order to combat problem of theft of smartphones this law forces thieves to coerce the VICTIM of theft into disabling technological solution prior to walking off with the device making an already dangerous encounter more perilous and traumatic.

    1. Re:Dangerous and irresponsible by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'd suspect most phone thefts are snatch-and-run, in which there's no time or way to interrogate the victim. Armed robberies are considerably rarer, and having to interrogate the victim makes them more dangerous for the criminal.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  32. Now Police Can Kill The Cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay! Now we all can live in our own extensions of Ferguson. All the police have to do is order an regional bricking of every phone that might be capturing their brutality against unarmed threats to our beautiful democracy. Rubber bullets and tear gas will teach our children proper respect for authority and no one but the poor will have to be held accountable.

  33. More priceless excerpts by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    According to the Federal Communications Commission, smartphone thefts now account for 30 to 40 percent of robberies in many major cities across the country. Many of these robberies often turn violent with some resulting in the loss of life.

    Consumer Reports projects that 1.6 million Americans were victimized for their smartphones in 2012.

    In order to be effective, antitheft technological solutions need to be ubiquitous, as thieves cannot distinguish between those smartphones that have the solutions enabled and those that do not.

    Is there something wrong with the water in California? Did zombies, head crabs and giant bugs with straws feast upon brains of lawmakers?

    It seems either California is going to single handedly put an end to cell phone theft OR they are going to single handedly further endanger the lives of billions of cell phone users around the world. Which is more likely?

  34. Phone companies by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

    How long until the phone companies start killing phones for late payment or cancellation of service? This does not bode well for freedom to choose your carrier or for unlocking phones.

    --
    "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  35. Not likely to be abused by "above the law" by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

    "except in an emergency that poses “immediate danger of death or great bodily injury.”

    Nope, nothing here to be abused...

    Start wearing cameras ladies and gents...

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.
  36. Time to replace the OS by Keith111 · · Score: 1

    I've never really cared enough to replace the OS with a custom rom on my galaxy... but this seems like the best argument for doing this in the future.

  37. Guess what I brought back from Vegas? by istartedi · · Score: 1

    Guess what I brought back from Vegas? My next phone.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  38. Perfect timing by superdave80 · · Score: 1

    I'm about ready to upgrade my iPhone 4, so I guess I will be in the market for a new phone around June 2015.

    1. Re:Perfect timing by jimbo · · Score: 1

      iPhones have this and with iOS7 a thief can't even reflash your phone without AppleID authentication. So newer phone are safe and hardly even needs remote wipe/kill as long as people use better lock screen passwords than '1234'.

      I'm guessing Android have this too but that's such a diverse market that I'd check first for sure. The reflash lock is essential of course.

      What I wonder is if this remote kill would be added to the GSM protocol or require a data plan.

  39. So don't subpoena a state official by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Because all those devices will be wiped.

  40. Your votes matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The California legislature has been dominated by Democrats (by 2-to-1 margins) for many years now, and California Democrats are so extreme that they would despise John F Kennedy (who was for a strong national defense, low taxes, never supported homosexual anything, was not for massive waves of unlimited immigration, did not advocate for unrestricted abortion, etc). The party of massive control-freak government is in total control, so there is little debate and no moderation in any policies they want. Drivers licences for illegals? check. Pot? check. Crazy high taxes? check. Only plan for providing energy and water is rationing and high rates? check. etc. This is why so many businesses and middle class people have fled (the population is only growing because of immigration from other countries where things are worse). Eventually, corporations will NOT adapt their products to meet stupid CA laws like this due to 2 trends: [1] the US is not longer the only market that matters (CA was big part of US market, but smaller part of world market) and [2] per-capita consumer spending in CA (if you leave ut the super rich) is dying off. The state's population is shifting from "thriving middle class" to "massive welfare-dependent class" with CA now being the most-deeply in-debt state and the state with the most people on welfare.

    Anybody who keeps voting for these totalitarian freaks (who alse appear to think they can power the state with unicorn farts and water it with fairy tears instead of power plants, upgraded resivoirs and aquaducts etc) deserves every single bit of lost freedom, lost privacy, and lost economic activity he/she gets. Gonna have a poorer furure than your parents and grandparents had? Too bad. THEY chose to build a great state of California and you, via your votes, chose to trash it. Enjoy your gay marriage or "medicinal pot" or whatever other "wedge issue" vote got you to disregard all the other, actually important things these progs would do to you.