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How Big Telecom Smothers Municipal Broadband

Rick Zeman writes: The Center for Public Integrity has a comprehensive article showing how Big Telecom (aka, AT&T, Comcast, Charter, Time Warner) use lobbyists, paid-for politicians, and lawsuits (both actual and the threat thereof) in their efforts to kill municipal broadband. From the article: "The companies have also used traditional campaign tactics such as newspaper ads, push polls, direct mail and door-to-door canvassing to block municipal networks. And they've tried to undermine the appetite for municipal broadband by paying for research from think tanks and front groups to portray the networks as unreliable and costly."

82 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. This Just In! by pwnyxpress · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Group in power tries to maintain power...story at 11.

    1. Re:This Just In! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's even worse when the big ISPs are trying to kill municipal broadband in an area they don't serve. Because you can't have the government competing with them in an area that they might, someday, begin to consider serving. Until then, the residents should grovel (over dial-up) at the big ISPs' feet for broadband Internet service.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:This Just In! by sabri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because you can't have the government competing with them in an area that they might, someday, begin to consider serving.

      There is only one reason for the government to step in: make it easier for smaller ISPs to start shop. I'd love to start a small ISP in my area, but it is practically impossible.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    3. Re:This Just In! by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is only one reason for the government to step in: make it easier for smaller ISPs to start shop. I'd love to start a small ISP in my area, but it is practically impossible.

      Given a few common, yet unproven, assumptions about how markets operate. ISPs operate a lot like utilities in terms of fundamental market behaviors, and the prevalence of natural monopolies. Organizing the structure of the market to allow smaller competitors, to me, is one way a government could help. Not the only way.

    4. Re:This Just In! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In most municipalities, it is impossible to start a small ISP because the city government didn't want to have to talk to more than one supplier of each kind of service. Competition is annoying for bureaucrats, they get two sides making claims and showing evidence, it actually requires work. So much easier to assign a monopoly and approve or reject their requests entirely on personal and political grounds.

    5. Re:This Just In! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is only one reason for the government to step in: make it easier for smaller ISPs to start shop. I'd love to start a small ISP in my area, but it is practically impossible.

      No, there is only one real reason for the government to step in: To serve the interests of its citizens.

      You may argue that smaller ISPs are in the interests of the citizenry, that's certainly reasonable enough to assert.

      But never forget why it's done.

    6. Re:This Just In! by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Oh no no no.. The real story that should be addressed is how people are so easily swayed by propaganda. This is the issue to attack.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    7. Re:This Just In! by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, the major news outlets have long since lost the ability to explain anything of this nature in a factual manner. And since the telecom wield influence over them as well, they aren't likely to help on this one.

    8. Re:This Just In! by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Informative

      "people"? You misspelled "legislators" - in 2003/4, Qwest (now CenturyStink) and Comcast went nuts and brib^M convinced Utah legislators to abandon the UTOPIA multi-city municipal broadband project, then they began slathering on lawsuits and threats thereof.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:This Just In! by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't give a damn about any of that. I only care that these politicians are being reelected over and over. That is a problem of the people.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    10. Re:This Just In! by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      And we shouldn't be depending on their help to spoon feed us every little tidbit. If anything, we need to learn to tune them out.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re:This Just In! by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because you can't have the government competing with them in an area that they might, someday, begin to consider serving.

      That's not why. It's because they're afraid of getting shown up.

      If you have a bunch of people out in the country getting gigabit internet for $25/month while the city folk are still paying $50/month for 1mbps DSL, it makes AT&T/Verizon look either corrupt or incompetent. It also destroys their argument that they can't provide good Internet in the US because of the low population density.

    12. Re:This Just In! by symbolset · · Score: 1

      This is what led the Grant County PUD to begin rolling out fiber to the home in 2000. Now this rural Washington county has gigabit fiber to the home at reasonable rates when much of Seattle is still stuck on DSL or Comcast level technology and rates.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    13. Re:This Just In! by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      The topic wasn't the us, but the masses. Fat chance of that happening.

    14. Re:This Just In! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Because you can't have the government competing with them in an area that they might, someday, begin to consider serving.

      Yeah, so ... don't let them hear this too loudly ... one way to get Comcast into a town (where that's the only neighboring monopoly) is to lay out plans on paper to have a market competitor build out a WISP to serve the town. It doesn't even have to be a great-coverage plan and you don't have to have affordable backhaul, but have some public hearings and make sure the papers cover it thoroughly - Comcast will be along shortly to talk to the town administrators about pulling cable, on their dime.

      I've even seen this happen in sequence, from town to town.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    15. Re:This Just In! by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      It would reduce the overhead and risk for the ISPs to move into more rural areas if the municipality was footing the bill..... I'm surprised they are not trying to bid on the work of building the infrastructure, operation, and maintenance.

    16. Re:This Just In! by Keick · · Score: 1

      Just to burn some Karma i'm going to offer an opposing argument.

      My biggest objection to municipality run ISP's is the rural factor; There is no laws that says a municipality has to provide service to those just outside.

      I'm on Verizon DSL where I live, 3/4 mile outside of town limits but in a non-dense area. In college town there are thousands of apartments in high density areas, and also served by Verizon.

      Now say the town decides to run it's own fiber to all these apartments. Now Verizon loses all that customer base, but is still required to operate in the surrounding low density areas. What do you think is going to happen to MY bills?

    17. Re:This Just In! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      That might be the real reason, but the public reason the big ISPs offer up is "unfair competition" from government - even when the "competition" would be serving an area that the ISP isn't serving. And yet, Comcast and Time Warner Cable claim they aren't competing with each other because they serve different areas.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    18. Re:This Just In! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Municipal broadband = BAD, (the government doesn't have the incentive to succeed that small business must.)
      Co-Op internet: not a bad idea, but really a form of small business.
      Giant corporate Broadband = No Competition....

      We need smaller providers like WISPs and small FTH providers like golightspeed.com to have some competition.

      And what does the government actually do? They give out grants to the big corporate providers at nearly $1000 per home to expand into areas that they don't make money in. Politicians funnel the money to the big providers and keep it out of the hands of the small local providers that can service the same homes at less than half the price. Small business can compete, but not against Big providers+Government grants.
      I wish the government would just stay out of it. Politicians don't understand the last mile delivery of internet service. They want to shovel money around to buy peoples votes but don't understand that they just disrupt the market and make life more difficult for small business.

    19. Re:This Just In! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      I think that the free market should attempt to try to compete with what they call 'inefficient big government'. I think it would be awesome to see if government or business can manage better.

    20. Re:This Just In! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I would love a free market for broadband Internet. The big companies that offer broadband Internet, though, don't want one and will use all of their power and influence to keep one from emerging.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    21. Re:This Just In! by tc3driver · · Score: 1

      Politicians don't understand the last mile delivery of internet service.

      I would say that they don't understand anything of internet service. At least the elected officials (in general of course). Otherwise I agree fully.

      --
      42 69 6C 6C 20 47 61 74 65 73 20 69 73 20 61 20 77 68 6F 72 65 21
    22. Re:This Just In! by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      It also destroys their argument that they can't provide good Internet in the US because of the low population density.

      No, it just shows that when you remove the requirement for prices to cover costs and yield a profit, governments can do what private companies cannot. If the existing telecom could cover any operating losses by just dipping into the taxpayer general fund, you'd see prices go way down -- covered by taxes, of course.

      And that is what makes government competing with existing private companies wrong. It isn't fair in any sense of the word, and the private companies, even if the courts say they are free to compete if they want to, have no way they'll make any return on their investment. I mean, existing markets are already defacto monopolies (not dejure) because even in major markets the density of consumers is too low to support two systems in direct head to head competition. If both TW and Comcast could make a profit operating in the same markets, they would. They'd both get franchises and both run physical plant and you'd have a choice.

    23. Re:This Just In! by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I would love a free market for broadband Internet. The big companies that offer broadband Internet, though, don't want one and will use all of their power and influence to keep one from emerging.

      You're really trying to argue that government run competition is how you create a "free market"? Really?

    24. Re:This Just In! by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Around here it usually works the opposite, the government delivers cheaper service including running at a lose in some rural places that private business would never service and puts money into the general fund. This is the danger with government infrastructure, they discover they can cut taxes and make up the shortfall by raising prices and pretty soon you're paying almost as much (or in the case of monopoly, more) then private business would charge.
      If big cable company can charge X, pretty soon some government decides that it can also charge X and get voted in by lowering taxes. Then they can use the high prices as an excuse to give the infrastructure to their friends in industry.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    25. Re:This Just In! by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      us - we... we are "the masses"

      Hey, look, I'm cool with however you want to run it. I'm just asking if you have a plan for implementation of whatever changes you want made, or are we just expected to slog along, and keep voting for salesmen, and watch the next 10 or 12 years become a little worse than the last, and hope to be rescued by Harry Potter?

      There's no other way to put it. What you have is what you voted for, under the veneer of charisma.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    26. Re:This Just In! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      No, I'm saying that we don't have one and won't have one if the big ISPs get their way. Municipal broadband won't turn a monopoly market into a free market, but towns should be free to decide to do it if they want.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    27. Re:This Just In! by nine-times · · Score: 1

      No, it just shows that when you remove the requirement for prices to cover costs and yield a profit, governments can do what private companies cannot.

      Funny, because that's also a pretty solid argument as to why the government should be building Internet infrastructure. Private industry is saying, "We can't build the infrastructure necessary for this country to move forward, because it's too expensive." Well, the government can do it then.

      But honestly, I'm not even sure that's true. Private industry can waste money like nobody's business with far less oversight, especially when they're providing a service as a monopoly, or part of a cartel.

  2. I don't know what's scarier about this article by timrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fact that a 67-year-old grandmother from Tennessee has more progressive views on municipal internet than a large portion of the rest of the country, or that AT&T stepped in and threatened a 67-year-old grandmother over her attempt to provide municipal internet to her community.

    1. Re:I don't know what's scarier about this article by AnontheDestroyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      She doesn't have more progressive views than most in the country. This is yet another issue that proves the country is an plutocracy rather than a democracy. In this instance, a few corporations (who Republicans will have you believe are, "people") are buying up politicians and subverting the will of the masses.

      It just happens to be one of the more glaring flaws with our campaign finance and electoral systems. And it still can't be fixed.

    2. Re:I don't know what's scarier about this article by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Being that in most area we have the choice of only one broadband provider. So we are reliant on taking what we can get. If we can have Broadband internet at the Local Town level, vs. State or Federal level. We can have internet and still be close enough to local government to control what goes on.

      MaBell on the other hand was just what everyone used in the US. So we had to suck it up and pay for a monopoly.

      The thing is with a municipal Internet. the carriers can still dominate the market, as they could the the Towns ISP. It is that they just won't get paid as much as charging everyone $70.00 a month.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:I don't know what's scarier about this article by bughunter · · Score: 2

      What's truly scary, is that in the US some people consider Public Integrity (both the nonprofit and the concept) to be "far left."

      From the site's "about" page:

      Our mission: To serve democracy by revealing abuses of power, corruption and betrayal of public trust by powerful public and private institutions, using the tools of investigative journalism.

      Yep. Anarcho-communist FUDmongers, the lot of 'em.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    4. Re:I don't know what's scarier about this article by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Well democracy itself is pretty left wing, at least by the original definition where the left was the common people and the right was the aristocracy. It's just a shame that currently a quote like

      Our mission: To serve democracy by revealing abuses of power, corruption and betrayal of public trust by powerful public and private institutions, using the tools of investigative journalism

      has become an insult.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  3. Stakeholders vs. Customers by SpzToid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems to me that stakeholders in municipal broadband are a more satisfied lot than the customers of the Telcos (with their paid lobbyists so nicely donating money to the boy/girls scouts to enlist their 'support' for crazy-ass mergers and what-not; nevermind that The Public has Clearly Told The 3 (is it?) commissioners at the FCC to take a flying leap).

    --
    You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
  4. Costly and Unreliable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    "And they've tried to undermine the appetite for municipal broadband by paying for research from think tanks and front groups to portray the networks as unreliable and costly."

    So let me get this straight, per the broadband industry municipal broadband is costly and unreliable, but they, meaning AT&T, ComCast, CenturyLink, cannot compete with "Costly and Unreliable". I think this says more about broadband industry than it does about municipal broadband.

  5. Republican? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    She's a republican? Offering something to her non-corporate constituents? What planet is this?

    1. Re:Republican? by Shatrat · · Score: 2

      The one that doesn't conform to the group-think stereotypes of online forums.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Republican? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. Back when democrats were social conservatives and republicans were progressives.

    3. Re:Republican? by vandamme · · Score: 1

      There's two in New York, but I only counted those within range of my wifi.

  6. Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's funny that when a free-market proponent says government monopolization of some good or service "crowds out" for-profit competition we get called names. It's also funny that when we point out that these companies with government sanctioned monopolies aren't really operating in a free-market environment we get accused of using the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

    1. Re:Crowding Out Effect by VTBlue · · Score: 1

      No one I know says this. It should pretty cleanse that telecoms, cable, are not functioning in any Market. As you correctly say they are local government monopolies whic are further protected by the states, for stupid and nonsensical reasons.

    2. Re:Crowding Out Effect by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It comes from the fallacious belief that non-government created monopolies leveraging their position will face competitors who can "do it for less". The truth is that infrastructure just isn't that conducive to competition. Who'd want 3 different water/sewer systems connected to their house?

    3. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      No one I know says this.

      You hang out with people who have more than typical insight, then. I hear a lot of this kind of thing from people. Mostly, but not exclusively, who are left-leaning, and who also blame the banking crisis on "the free market".

    4. Re:Crowding Out Effect by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      The truth is that infrastructure just isn't that conducive to competition.

      Heh, just ten years ago I heard people saying that - shortly before Comcast offered phone service and before Verizon offered TV service. Both cable TV and telephone were "natural monopolies" before they weren't. To offer that Verizon had to replace their entire cable plant and Comcast had to replace much of it. What they didn't have to do was go through an extremely expensive political and regulatory process to get access to pole space (in the "public right of way").

      Who'd want 3 different water/sewer systems connected to their house?

      When the first two are charging $1000/mo for water and the third offers it for $50 a month, then the cost of laying the new piping can be amortized over a short enough time period that either customers or investors are willing to put up the money for the time-value return of the subscribers' rates.

      It's exactly the same calculation for anything anybody calls a 'natural monopoly'. Absent an interfering government, the money flows to the best service provider.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:Crowding Out Effect by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but we know from relatively basic studies of economics, (varying) on the exact elasticity of demand, that any sort of sane monopoly tends to price somewhere in the range of double to triple what a competitive market would.

      Not the fantastical 20x you just proposed.

    6. Re:Crowding Out Effect by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Hey, it says right in TFS "lobbyists, paid-for politicians, and lawsuits" - what part of the Free Market doesn't have "lobbyists, paid-for politicians, and lawsuits"?

      Can't you see how this is a problem with voluntary trade and not fascism?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    7. Re:Crowding Out Effect by ebyrob · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah. Bring up phones. Those land-lines have REALLY gotten more reliable and useful in the last 60 years haven't they? I mean, look at the horrible phone track records for emergency service and reliability in 1954 after all.

      > It's exactly the same calculation for anything anybody calls a 'natural monopoly'. Absent an interfering government, the money flows to the best service provider.

      I suppose that's why municipal water is so expensive, unreliable and horrible in the US, whereas such an "incredibly difficult" service as data transfer works cheaply and flawlessly under the wonderfully popular and incredibly excellent Comcat, Verizon et al. "services". </puke>

    8. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      I think the fact that the land line providers were granted privileges (right of way, regulatory capture) by the government is a good example of what I referring to in my original post. Your apparent lack of comprehension is a pretty good example of the kind of behavior I was describing precisely in the second sentence.

    9. Re:Crowding Out Effect by VTBlue · · Score: 1

      I did public finance and Econ in grad school...post Keynesian bent. :)

    10. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I saw your reference to MMT.

    11. Re:Crowding Out Effect by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 2

      Who'd want 3 different water/sewer systems connected to their house?

      Ummm... me?

      I'm currently forced to buy water from only the local government-granted monopoly water provider, who has decided not to provide one type of water I want to purchase (greywater) to residential customers. They sell it to commercial customers at1/10th the cost of their potable water lines, but despite the fact that the pipes and infrastructure supporting it are literally 2 feet from my property, I'm classified as residential, so no using greywater for landscaping for me.

      There's another potential water provider less than a mile away in a different political jurisdiction who I could purchase from... if it was legally allowed for them to compete here, which it isn't.

      The truth is that taking a government-created monopoly and saying that's proof that a market wouldn't support a non-monopoly setup is really saying that the legal framework creating the monopoly in the first place isn't really needed. So let's get rid of the government enforcing monopolies and see what's really a persistent natural monopoly vs what's actually a favor for buddies of the local politicians instead?

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    12. Re:Crowding Out Effect by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      I didn't hear of any government officials putting guns to the heads of investment bankers to package up bad loans and sell them as AAA securities. Got any cites for that?

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    13. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      After repeated bailouts, they didn't have to. It was largely assumed that the boys' club would take care of each other. And indeed it has, for TBTF banks that received bailouts enjoyed discounts on their interbank borrowing after they were bailed out, because their creditors knew the central bank would make good on any bad loans. Small banks actually operate at a disadvantage because the assumption is they WON'T get bailed out unless they're big enough for "systemic risk". Also, the whole Federal Reserve fractional system is designed for the benefit of banks (and also to facilitate deficits).

    14. Re:Crowding Out Effect by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Right, so the banks, of their own free will, package up bad loans and sell them as AAA securities, and it's the government's fault.

      I give up, you're in incorrigible libertard.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    15. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Oh, you took took "libertarian" and "retard" and put them together. You're smart. Now, explain to me in what FREE MARKET is there an incentive for private firms to bail out banks for making bad loans? That you can't see that only in a market with SIGNIFICANT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION AND BIG BANK FAVORITISM would that happen indicates a severe problem in your perception.

    16. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Government bailouts of big banks are NOT a feature of free markets. Big banks failures that put the banks out of business ARE a feature of free markets. Banks making bad bets can happen in either scenario.

    17. Re:Crowding Out Effect by digsbo · · Score: 1

      And yet, there are multiple people in this thread continuing to argue that strawman. I really do not know what is wrong with these people's thought processes. I believe these folks mean well, but WTF?

    18. Re:Crowding Out Effect by VTBlue · · Score: 1

      I don't get the context of your comment. What are you commenting on?

  7. Municipal Broadband is Socialism! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You can't allow it. If it works well, people might think socialism isn't always a bad thing. Who knows what other crazy, un-American ideas would then catch on?

    Seriously, this isn't just to eliminate municipal broadband as an Internet delivery mechanism, it is to stamp out the idea that municipally owned utilities are possible and sometimes desirable.

    1. Re:Municipal Broadband is Socialism! by towermac · · Score: 2

      It's not socialism. Unless you expand the definition of socialism all the way down to include two people talking...

  8. Why can't taxpayers decide for themselves? by sjbe · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is only one reason for the government to step in: make it easier for smaller ISPs to start shop.

    So you don't think the government should step in if the big guys are abusing their monopoly? You don't think the voters in a municipality should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want the government to establish broadband services for their own use? I know it's a popular meme to presume that governments are nothing but incompetent but the reality is that sometimes the government is the best way to get something done. If the existing ISPs find it not worthwhile to serve a population I see no credible argument why the local government couldn't fill that role if the taxpayers want them to. Might not be economically ideal but sometimes perfect is the enemy of good enough.

    I'd love to start a small ISP in my area, but it is practically impossible.

    Out of curiosity, why? It's a pretty tough way to make a buck. The margins in being an ISP are pretty thin unless you are able to obtain some form of monopoly. If there is any competition the margins plummet but costs don't. Huge fixed costs, lots of customer service, maintenance, etc. Maybe it's your passion but I've started a number of businesses and that is a seriously difficult business to get into. I can introduce you to several people who have actually tried to start an ISP and failed in spite of being well funded.

    1. Re:Why can't taxpayers decide for themselves? by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Informative

      So you don't think the government should step in if the big guys are abusing their monopoly? You don't think the voters in a municipality should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want the government to establish broadband services for their own use? I know it's a popular meme to presume that governments are nothing but incompetent but the reality is that sometimes the government is the best way to get something done. If the existing ISPs find it not worthwhile to serve a population I see no credible argument why the local government couldn't fill that role if the taxpayers want them to. Might not be economically ideal but sometimes perfect is the enemy of good enough.

      My region (the 2M people metro area) is going through municipal broadband fights. They started the fights back in 2002.

      The group got an initial rollout in a few of the smaller cities, roughly 11,000 people got hooked up. Then the entrenched monopolies kicked in. Some highlights:

      * Lawsuits from both the incumbent megacorps on cable-based and phone-based Internet on the claim that it was unlawful and anti-competitive for a state agency to compete with an established business. The lawsuits took several years and cost millions. The judges and the appeals court found that government is allowed to provide services, similar to how they provide municipal trash services and still businesses compete; nothing prevents the cable and phone companies from competing if they want.

      * Every year state legislators keep introducing new bills prohibiting government agencies from competing with existing businesses, or requiring that governments cannot provide information services to the public without high fees and those fees should go to education, or that any group providing Internet services have so many billions in assets to mitigate risk of disaster, and other variations. Invariably a little research shows the legislators get money from the phone and cable companies, and the company lobbyists vocally support them. The municipal fiber groups have needed to spend several million dollars to fight these as well.

      * In a few cities installation was unexpectedly stopped again when some of the smaller cities discovered their own contracts with the megacorps demanded that they couldn't build their own systems until after a multi-year vetting process with the megacorps plus giving them another multi-year opportunity for megacorps to adjust prices and to improve their infrastructure. Basically the smaller city and town governments signed deals for their own cheap Internet that block municipal fiber within their limits for a decade or more. Since then the FCC and other groups have urged cities to be more careful in the contracts they sign.

      * Incumbents even got the federal government to drop contracts. In one case they had a contract with the federal government for a $66M under the RUS. After the municipal system had invested and contracted based on that contract it was unexpectedly cancelled. Investigation showed the federal contract was cancelled because the federal RUS system was threatened by the megacorps. A chain of 'smoking gun' emails were discovered where Comcast and CenturyLink demanded the RUS cancel the contract or the two megacorps would act against it; a lawsuit on tortious interference is ongoing, but the cost will be several more million before any ruling will follow, in the mean time the municipal system is out the $66M plus all the interest they need to pay on the emergency loan they had to take out to avoid defaulting on the expenses.

      * Because the megacorps have forced the municipal fiber system to spend hundreds of millions on lawsuits and illegally-broken contracts, and because the redirected money has resulted in higher interest rates and longer-term loans costing over $500M to date, they are leveraging it and constantly sponsoring print ads, billboards, and TV ads (on their own cable networks) making nonspecific claims about how the municipal fiber has collected so m

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    2. Re:Why can't taxpayers decide for themselves? by skaaman · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, why? It's a pretty tough way to make a buck...

      Especially if you don't own the political clout to protect your interests. Case in point, the Telecommunications Reform Act of 1996 and the littered graveyard of start-up broadband firms (well funded based on the rules set down by TRA 96.) The big firms lawyer-ed up and quietly, litigiously fleeced the consumer by crushing upstart competition... There was a time long ago when corporations were distrusted by our elected leaders and corporate charters were limited to ensure they were benefiting the citizenry and it appears they were correct in doing so...

  9. Eliminate municipal monopolies by BobandMax · · Score: 5, Informative

    The answer is pretty easy. Eliminate the ability of cities, counties or states to create monopolies. In jurisdictions where there is no monopoly and multiple offerings exist; prices are lower, service is better and customers are more satisfied.
    http://www.pcworld.com/article...
    http://cbpp.georgetown.edu/wp-...
    http://www.uspirg.org/reports/...

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    1. Re:Eliminate municipal monopolies by BobandMax · · Score: 2

      The subject under discussion is broadband. Try to pay attention. And, yes, municipalities do prohibit competition through sleazy deals with all-too-eager providers. In those areas where there are no contractual monopolies, lower rates, better service and higher consumer satisfaction are the norm. The reason why there is only one choice in so many locations, like mine, is because local government has sold the monopoly rights.
      http://www.wired.com/2013/07/w...

      --

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    2. Re:Eliminate municipal monopolies by catprog · · Score: 1

      Such as all the universal health care systems paying less(public + private) as a percentage of GDP the the US government spends on health?

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  10. Government subsidy vs government monopoly by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    What galls me the most is the panty-wetting over a government-granted monopoly trying to maintain its government granted monopoly when that very same government tries to compete using taxpayer dollars as a subsidy.

    The outrage should be against government involvement period. If governments didn't grant local monopolies, there would be real competition among the real companies, and no perceived need for the government competition which is only competitive because it has the taxpayer subsidy.

  11. Terrible idea by Dega704 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Municipalities providing a critical infrastructure? What Lunacy! That will never work! What other crazy ideas do these municipalities have in store for us? Electricity? Running water and sewage? Gas heating? Paved roads? Balderdash! Best to leave these things to the large corporations and eliminate all of the regulations since they have nothing but the public's best interests at heart. To the free market fairy we pray for forgiveness. Amen.

  12. Huh! by DaMattster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With all of the money they spend lobbying politicians and rallying people against municipal broadband, they could've built out their networks and made them even better. Utter stupidity!

  13. Free wi-fi municipal networks by fok · · Score: 1

    Free wi-fi municipal networks are springing up in Brazil since at least 2009. Nonetheless, as these networks are intended for public access to government services, people still buy 30Mbit+ broadband connections for their homes from the big telcos.

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  14. "monopolies" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Given a few common, yet unproven, assumptions about how markets operate. ISPs operate a lot like utilities in terms of fundamental market behaviors, and the prevalence of natural monopolies. Organizing the structure of the market to allow smaller competitors, to me, is one way a government could help. Not the only way.

    Close, but not quite IMHO.

    The ISP component does not have to be a monopoly: and by "ISP" I mean the routing of packets. What tends to be monopolistic in practice is the cabling, whether fibre, twisted pair, or co-ax.

    I think that separating the part of current incumbent telcos and cablecos into separate entities, one which runs the physical stuff and the other which runs the packet routing (and telephone and television signals) would go a long way to improving things. At the very least forcing the incumbents to provide access like they have to do in Canada would be the very minimum for a proper functioning ISP market.

    Ideally the company that runs the ISO Layer 1 and 2 stuff would completely separate and a nonprofit. Whether that entity is publicly owned or a private company is a minor point.

    But separating physical access and network service (even by a "Chinese wall" with-in the current mega-corps) is the key point that needs to happen. Everything else is shuffling deck chairs.

    1. Re:"monopolies" by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      At the very least forcing the incumbents to provide access like they have to do in Canada would be the very minimum for a proper functioning ISP market.

      Mod parent up!

      I'm a Canadian. Right now I use Bell because my GF wants to keep her Sympatico address. But I miss the days when I had an ISP called TekSavvy, which delivered DSL service via the Bell phone lines, while the phone service on those same lines was provided by Bell.

      I wasn't totally satisfied with the service, (though I felt it was way better than Bell's had been), and was about to switch to another ISP when I ended up moving. But that was the beauty of it - I could choose from among several ISP's with just a few phone calls. (Plus a minor interruption of service while Bell 'accidentally' messed up the changeover).

      I shudder to think of living someplace where I have NO choice of ISP, or am forced to choose between a 'wired' monopolist bully and a 'wireless' monopolist bully.

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  15. Subsidy for the win by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

    So you are saying that you have no problem with the city folk subsidizing you. Sounds like that's what you are saying.

  16. Simle fix by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

    If you can't vote in the election, you can't contribute to the candidates in the elections. Eliminates outside money.

    1. Re:Simle fix by tc3driver · · Score: 1

      That doesn't stop a CEO of a corp from handing money to a politician and asking for the same favors.

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  17. Re:um by sam_nead · · Score: 4, Informative

    Soros hasn't funded them in the last decade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... "They are not journalists" - they won a Pulitzer...

  18. Costly and Unreliable? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    to portray the networks as unreliable and costly

    I wasn't sure to which networks this was referring.

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  19. Privatize sewage too. by Snufu · · Score: 1

    Think of the profits from monthly "bowel data caps".

  20. Re:um by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ah yes, the age-old "if you can't attack the message then attack the messenger". The article was well researched and correct. Deal with it.

  21. Re:um by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1, Troll

    "They are not journalists" - they won a Pulitzer..

    Obama won a Nobel.

  22. Re:um by mvdwege · · Score: 4, Funny

    You forgot to mention Al Gore, Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi.

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  23. It's not black or white by Dollyknot · · Score: 1

    We all keep getting sold this crap, that it's black or white, it's either communism or capitalism and there is nothing in between.

    Born and died in London, 1748 till 1838, we have Jeremy Bentham, he did come up with something in-between, he called it utilitarianism.

    Capitalism is 'every man for himself', screw you, me first. And communism is, 'my way or the highway', so can't we do anything better than those two opposing systems?

    Basically utilitarianism translates to, 'the maximum amount of good for the maximum number of people, this does not mean the government running restaurants, or making people all wearing the same colour and style of clothes.

    But privatising national institutions like railways, does not make any sense, because it almost costs the same amount of money to run a train empty as to run it full.

    Public WiFi falls into the same category as, mass public transport, in fact, public WiFi, helps good business it does not hinder it. Privatized WiFi means once the infrastructure is in place, fat cats get fatter, without doing anything, for anyone else, except raping their wallets and purses.

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