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U2 and Apple Collaborate On 'Non-Piratable, Interactive Format For Music'
Squiff writes U2 and Apple are apparently collaborating on a new, "interactive format for music," due to launch in "about 18 months." (A direct interview is available at Time, but paywalled.) Bono said the new tech "can't be pirated" and will re-imagine the role of album artwork. Marco Arment has some suitably skeptical commentary: "Full albums are as interesting to most people today as magazines. Single songs and single articles killed their respective larger containers. ... This alleged new format will cost a fortune to produce: people have to take the photos, design the interactions, build the animations, and make the deals with Apple. Bono’s talking point about helping smaller bands is ridiculous ... There's nothing Apple or Bono can do to make people care enough about glorified liner notes. People care about music and convenience, period. As for “music that can’t be pirated”, I ask again, what decade is this? That ship has not only sailed long ago, but has circled the world hundreds of times, sunk, been dragged up, turned into a tourist attraction, went out of business, and been gutted and retrofitted as a more profitable oil tanker."
" Bono said the new tech "can't be pirated" "
Since when is Bono qualified to have an opinion on this subject?
He should make songs and not talk about things he hasn't got a clue about.
How exactly is this supposed to make the end user feel good about either U2 or Apple?
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
don't they realize when they make statements like "can't be pirated", a whole bunch of people reply with "challenge accepted!" and will go to great lengths to do so?
/me presses the "Record" button on his memocorder; "So tell me, Bono, how exactly does this non-piratable media format work?".
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
The only way to make something unpiratable is to have it be a continuous interaction between a client and a server where you control the server.
I guess this music "format" is essentially going to be Apple's answer to Pandora, Spotify, et al.
It's a new form of distribution, everyone gets a copy which is undeletable. They make money by charging for a removal tool.
I wonder if this was inspired by Biophilia. That really blurred the lines between interactive art and music. But it was far, far, from a new medium that other individual artists could get into; it took a team of programmers and artists to pull off.
I already can't listen to U2, so I think they are well on their way.
Or at a minimum he should have a day job.
I'm a U2 fan, I like their music, I saw their last show in Dublin and I was happy to pay handsomely for the pleasure.
But increasingly musicians are looking to become rent seekers. The ought to earn a living like everyone else. Get on the road, Play gigs.
The expectation of a royalties for longer than a lifetime is a symptom entitlement, based solely on 'because we can'. I'm going to rip their music for as long as I can. When I can't, I'll stop going to their shows.
And where does Bono's sense of entitlement come from, he's a fucking northsider.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Northsider%20(dublin)
It has been tried for several decades, despite the stupidity even believing it is possible. Fist, there is this thing that eventually, any music has to be made analog before it can be listened to. Analog can always be recorded again and with minimal effort and loss of quality these days by anybody that has a soundcard and some basic understanding of electronics. Second, even digital format cannot be secure against copying, unless you augment them with some death-corps that kills everybody that bought it immediately after they did.
This is on the same level of small children that think just wanting something enough will make it true. The children have the excuse of immaturity. These people have not.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Apple, U2 and Metallica. The trio of the apocalypse.
This DRM technology is fascinating. The player automatically senses if any listening devices are present, and adjust's the output volume such that the listening devices are unable to record the music. In effect, it will play music so quietly that no one will be able to hear it or record it!
This is the latest in DRM technology, and people are going to pay million's of dollars to have it. Only Apple and U2 could pull this technology off. It is so new, it won't work with Linux, BSD, Zune, Windows, Android, and old versions of OS/X and iOS. Anyone using those older technologies will have to make do with cheap MP3 recordings of music.
DRM will work this time.
These guys have their head so deep up their asses they don't even understand the problem. The problem is that an album shouldn't cost $15 (or a $20 CD) with only a small amount (say, $1) actually going to the band while the rest is pocketed by the label. I realize labels need to market and produce albums, and that's how they justify their huge share of a sell. But when you look at their annual profits, clearly most of the money isn't spent.
The small bands are doing just fine self-producing albums in a home studio and sell them online DRM-free for $5 (while pocketing most of that amount). Sure, the big bands will want an overpriced producer, record in an overpriced studio, and market their albums on huge billboards. But small bands don't need that. I LOVE spending $5 on a small band's album, as an incentive to them. I rarely buy big band albums, except when there are on sale or that there's a huge production and added value (like a making-of or some sort of documentary for instance).
The problem is not pirating. The problem is that music is overpriced, so people pirate it. Or, like me, people don't like, as a principle, spending money when I know that most of it will NOT go to the band. And they also need to remember that every single DRM to date has been defeated. Stop pissing against the wind.
Bono's singing sounds exactly like Ned Beatty's squealing in Deliverance.
Apple needs to work on putting copy protection onto floppy disks. That worked out quite well before.
Can't Be Pirated is the holy grail of the copyright idiots. It's more important than profit, fame or success. It won't let common sense stand in its way.
The only format that can't be pirated is a format that you cannot listen to. Hey I'm going to encrypt this music and then hand your player the decryption keys! We can try moving the decryption closer and closer to your ears, or to your eyes (as in HDMI), but ultimately it has to interact with your senses and can be picked up using sensors (mics, cameras).
Please tell me again, how many anti piracy measures have actually been effective?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
.
Or to phrase it differently, it appears that U2 and Apple are proposing to make music more prominent in video games.
This DRM technology is already present in U2's music, it sends me diving for the fucking volume control every time...
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
That's how I'd rate the difficulty level of breaking any DRM or 'copy protection' (if there can be such a thing anymore) on something as simple as an audio file. Is Bono thinking of running for public office? Based on his apparent complete lack of understanding of technology I'd say he sounds just like your average politician. Any 'copy protection' scheme or DRM that a company spends millions developing will be broken by some anonymous bored teenage kid in Asia somewhere in a week or less, no problem, and in general distribution around the world a day after that. Even closing the 'analog hole' isn't going to help: It takes a minimal amount of electronics knowledge and skill to work around that as well, even if it were necessary. People like Bono and companies like Apple and Sony and the record labels need to just accept that they're wasting their time and money on things like this (which consequently ends up with higher prices for their 'products', in my opinion just encourages more piracy anyway) and accept that there is going to be a certain amount of digital piracy, just like there used to be people sharing 'mix tapes' and later 'mix CDs'.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Why does Apple keep investing themselves in post-peak celebrities?
Dre, Iovine and U2 may be influential but how much currency do they have among future music fans? Is it because the decision makers at Apple are all in their late 40s-to-50s and are merely caught up in the fandom of their youth?
Shouldn't they be forming partnerships with artists with a ton of pull with 20-somethings? Do kids in their 20s even listen to U2, or is it something that 40-something moms crank up in their minivans along with an illicit Marlboro Light on their way to pick up the kids at soccer practice?
If U2 had any hip credibility, it was 30 years ago. Can you imagine Apple rolling out the Macintosh in 1984 with a celebrity lineup of the Everly Brothers and Bill Haley & the Comets?
You only have to rip something once. You don't even have to do the ripping yourself. Someone else can do it for you.
DRM on a BluRay is only slightly more of a nuissance than the DRM on a DVD. Both are well cracked formats with lots of suitable tools that are readily available.
That particular battle was lost a long time ago.
Now this new format will remain intact only so long as no one cares about it. As soon as it becomes relevant, it will get cracked. Admittedly, obscurity is one thing Apple may have going for them here.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I created 20-30 albums, but only in my mind, never recorded them or played even a single note. Not piratable at all ;)
I have nothing personal against Apple or U2, but if Cook thinks he can keep Apple's overall positive image as a "cool company" (not to speak of rejuvenating it) by collaborating with a pop band whose peak of success was in the late 80s/early 90s, then I can only conclude that Apple has a rough future ahead.
Perhaps I am missing the grand picture here but it's hard for me to imagine anything less innovative and more boring than this U2 bullshit in combination with a wrist watch that looses power after one day.
Ah, hubris! One of my favorite old-timey sins.
You are of course correct. The signal must become analog at some point to make it into your head, and we have had the capability to capture analog signals since the dawn of the television age. You can crack open LCD panels and intercept signals for a more modern high tech version of this concept, of course.
But you are forgetting the other side of the equation. When when someone makes that statement - "THIS CANNOT EVER BE PIRATED" - you are throwing down the gauntlet. And invariably some bored teenager will say "oh really is that so?" and make them eat their words. Usually by the following Saturday. Yes you can do an analog capture but by the time you warm up your soldering gun some kid in the Netherlands will have already got the torrent up.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch a Blu-Ray movie on my Linux box.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Interactive? Music? Apple? That's easy. They're going to make "Music apps" for iPhones and iPads.
But those won't work on the iPod shuffle, the iPod nano and I'm guessing it won't work directly with the future Apple Watch either.
If it's music, I don't want to "interact" with it, I just want to listen to it.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
But, in a world where everyone is selling 256K and 320K tracks, I'd rather get my music in a lossless format and convert down to VBR MP3.
LMAO. AAC is already VBR, at 256k from the iTunes store. So you want a lossless track so that you can convert it to lossy anyway, rather than getting a lossy track in the first place with no extra steps needed. Brilliant.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Apple is adding the "bone phone" to their headphone lineup and it's only a slight tweak to convert that fingerprint scanner to detect ear signatures.
So YES -- Apple will use ear authentication and a combination of ultrasonic and sonic frequencies to compile the sound "in ear".
Unless we hack the nervous system -- this music can NEVER be pirated. /s
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
I really do want digital albums, complete with very high resolution art, full lyrics, liner notes, and extras.
I'd actually like to have the ability to buy the "full album" that would include video files of each music video from the album, "B" sides from old 45 releases of songs from the album, backstage videos, interviews with the artist, whatever.
The old album covers from the 70's, the ones that were supposed to be on large vinyl record jackets... I want to be able to put those up on a large flatscreen TV while the album is playing. Preferably not just a scan from a CD printing, but the original image scanned in high resolution. I'd like to be able to see all the details in Hipgnosis images like the jacket art to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway or Wish You Were Here. (Hmm, someone made an animated GIF for that last one... heck, I'd like it both ways in the digital album, original and new animated version.)
Of course, I want this all using open file formats (FLAC, JPEG, HTML). But since nobody else got around to doing this, Apple is doing it first, and of course with Apple it will be proprietary, opaque, and likely patented somehow for maximum lockin.
I don't think this will revolutionize music, but it really is something I want.
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Given pirating audio will always be possible (just use a microphone), is it possible that their new audio format will simply involve steganography to add purcharser identification to tracks. This would allow them to better identify, and perhaps prosecute all pirates (until they find a way of stripping the audio fingerprint). It seems alot more plausible than them actually trying a funky new drm (after Apple were compelled to remove drm from itunes music).
Music has existed as a business since before history. It only became a huge industry when recording and cheap players became available to a mass market. We are now past this point. Previously recording music required huge amounts of capital in equipment and copying and distribution. But now copying and transmitting are essentially without cost and recording and editing equipment is on the same scale as the instruments. The huge music industry is dead. What will replace it is a return to the past. Paying for the experience of a live show.
Recordings will serve mearly as advertising.
It's nice when you have a natural monopoly buy enjoy it while it lasts.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
release an album no one wants for free and it won't be pirated.
lose != loose
Let them bring "DRM" to the ipod, given the trackrecord you list, it will just compel someone to create a better product.
Once you reach a certain market share you treat your customers with disdain, and someone else comes along and eats you up, perhaps it is Apple's try at the "customers are all criminals and we need DRM"?
SonyMD is a good example, it was actually a great product and far ahead of its time, but DRM'd to death and it frankly sucked and died off.
Few things worse then stating "MP3" on the box, only to find out it needed a 30 minute conversion to ATRAC first.
The SonyMD software sucked, it is almost like they spent most of their dev efforts on DRM and not the user experience.
Thsi point is the ignored deal breaker that has killed all other formats that attempted this. If it won't play on any of the following, it's sales are already in decline.
Common MP3 Players
DVD players that play MP3 CD's
Computers Windows, Linux, Apple
Cell phones Android as well as Apple.
Only formats with compatability at a reasonable price will sell in volume.
Unique formats that require a specialised player will have very limited market penetration.
Do I need to list failed formats?
Sony Minidisc with serial copy protection
Microsoft Zune and protected WMA formats
Apple Itunes copy protected format
The Apple format had a reasonable market penetration because they were the first to market with a legal format, but had to drop the protection when other players entered the market at lower prices in more universally playable formats. Apple tried to market the unprotected verson at a higher price, but that was short lived too.
My questions are who is going to produce the compatible players that people will actually buy? Will the player play legacy formats that are not protected? This is important as a new player that won't play existing libraries won't sell much. Will the player import the legacy formats into a protected format? If so, this will cause a backup and archival issue. Will it be compatible with MOST in car infotainment systems?
Many cars have the ability to "Play" MP3's on a USB Thumb drive. How are you going to sell into this market?
Another incompatable format has a high barrier to market entry. Good luck.
The truth shall set you free!
I keep hearing that word since my VIC-20 days.
I do not think it means what you think it means.
Apple engineers unable to plug Bono's analog hole.